Chris, Your accusation of my practice of to-hell-with-it-all Zen is warranted by my last post, but not accurate.
Put it this way: talking about direct experience is more difficult than trying to convey the entire Bible only through the use of shadow-puppets. All the questions and answers on this forum are like this, I suppose. That doesn't mean making shadow-puppets isn't fun for me, but it does mean that I don't mistake them for what they represent. First, shadow-puppets, then meaningless silhouettes, then shadow-puppets again. Here's a shadow-puppet: let the present moment be your teacher, and don't learn a damn thing from it! How DARE you accuse me of talking smack about my beloved forum?!? ;-) -PBS ------------------------------ On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 11:40 AM EDT Chris Austin-Lane wrote: >It sounds like the forum is not an entertaining pass time for you? > >Personally I occasionally find gems of language like "the toilet bowl of >samsara". This phrase particularly resonates with me as I live in a place >with my two kids and only one toilet and last night i had to break out the >plunger and the full suite of household towels during dinner preparation >with guests. > >Thanks, >--Chris >301-270-6524 > On Jul 5, 2013 11:36 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Yes, I would say our perceptions are analogies... IMO they are only >> analogies of each other, all circular-like and what-have-you. This is why >> they are delusions, to use your term -- right there, an example; >> terminology: just as all of our perceptions are only analogies of each >> other, all of our words are only defined words that are defined by words, >> ad infinitum. From the fractal nature of the universe, all the way to the >> senses themselves being analogies of each other. >> >> If Zen was listed on your "Religions Explained" post, I'd write in "Same >> shit, new flies." >> >> and so what, we turn to posting more analogies online about pointing to >> moons, and beggars, and birds, and frogs, and math, and mountains, and >> clapping hand(s)... We contemplate, debate, and masturbate, and I suppose >> this is a the part where I make a hungry ghost analogy. Samara, >> enlightenment, illusion, experience, awakening, reality, and zen are all >> just analogies too. We make analogies about Buddha nature, as if a "check" >> to see if we have it or if we do not have it. Great. >> >> Here's another analogy: a turd swirling the toilet bowl of samsara. Bah, >> humbug! ;-) >> >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Fri, 7/5/13, Bill! <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Huang Po on Thinking and Seeing >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Friday, July 5, 2013, 9:08 PM >> >> PBS, >> >> In fact you could say that most of our perceptions are like >> analogies themselves...Bill! >> >> --- In [email protected], >> pandabananasock@... wrote: >> > >> > >> > Bill!, >> > It takes one to know one! >> > ~PeeBeeEss >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 10:30 AM EDT Bill! wrote: >> > >> > >PBS, >> > > >> > >Good analogy! >> > > >> > >...Bill! >> > > >> > >--- In [email protected], >> pandabananasock@ wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > Perception, delusion, thought... these >> are all based on each other. Experience just IS. You can't >> think of anything you don't already know -- thoughts that >> feel new are just new combinations of pieces of old >> knowledge. >> > > >> > > When we do experience "experience", mind >> is aware of it, and does what it does best, which is to >> 'realize' it (VERY quickly, too). At this point, it is no >> longer 'experience'. >> > > >> > > It's like going bird-watching; you >> quietly sneak upon a beautiful specimen. As you slowly reach >> for your binoculars, your dumb-ass buddy shouts, "HEY!! >> THERE'S ONE UP THERE!!! HURRY, IT'S FLYING AWAY FOR SOME >> REASON!! WHY IS IT THAT EVERY TIME I SEE A BIRD IT FLIES >> AWAY?!?!" >> > > >> > > Your buddy really believes the bird is >> flying away because it was seen; he is confusing his >> identifying shouts for the act of seeing the bird. You'd >> have a much easier time (effortless, in fact) if you went to >> the woods by yourself, but your buddy is the one with the >> car! >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------ >> > > On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 9:48 AM EDT Bill! >> wrote: >> > > >> > > >Merle, >> > > > >> > > >First of all perceptions are neither >> good or bad, they're just delusional. There only 'bad' if >> you form attachments to them (believe they are real). >> > > > >> > > >In the quote my interpretations is >> 'seeing' is experience and 'thinking' is perception and >> other intellectual activities. >> > > > >> > > >The quote is: >> > > > >> > > >"The foolish reject what they see >> and not what they think;..." >> > > > >> > > >This to me a caution about placing >> more importance in thinking than experience. >> > > > >> > > >"..the wise reject what they think >> and not what they see." >> > > > >> > > >This to me is an encouragement to >> put less importance on what you think and more on what you >> experience. >> > > > >> > > >...Bill! >> > > > >> > > >--- In [email protected], >> Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >  >> > > >  seeing is good >> > > >  thinking is bad... >> > > > is this the correct perception ?.. >> > > > merle >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >  >> > > > This is mainly for Merle. >> > > > >> > > > I thought it might help if I >> enlisted a little help from one of my buddies... >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > ...Bill! >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> >------------------------------------ >> > > > >> > > >Current Book Discussion: any Zen >> book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about >> it today!Yahoo! Groups Links >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >------------------------------------ >> > > >> > >Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that >> you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it >> today!Yahoo! Groups Links >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have >> read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups >> Links >> >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are >> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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