Merle, The experience of a toothache is not a delusion. It is real. It is in fact a characteristic of Buddha Nature.
Classifying the experience as 'pain' and judging it to be 'bad' is the delusion. More generally put, experience is real. Classifying and judging are perceptions and products of your human intellect. These are delusions (not real, not experience). ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > >  >  bill...so you are still telling me pain is a delusion?... tell me next time > when you are in deep pain..try a very bad toothache..see it as a delusion and > don't visit the dentist...how long will you last before you realise it is > real and needs attention?...merle > > >  > Merle, > > As you should very well know by now I don't identify with being a Buddhist. > > I do however practice zen and have for over 45 years; but just because I > practice zen doesn't mean I don't feel pain, or have other delusions. What > it means is that (most of the time) I am not attached to those delusions. > > ...Bill! > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > àbill...acceptance is the key...what sort odf a zen buddhist are > > you?..merle > > à> > Merle, > > > > Yes! Why me? Why not someone else? Someone I don't like? Someone who > > doesn't look like me or is the same color as me or speaks the same language > > as I do. Someone ELSE! > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ãâàbill...not why me...that's plain silly..why not you?...merle > > > Ãâà> > > Merle, > > > > > > I have been in pain before. When I am in pain I don't think of pain as a > > > judgmental delusion, I think of it as pain and judge it to be bad; and > > > maybe even think "Poor, poor me! Why do I have to suffer all this pain? > > > What did I do to deserve this? I just want it to go away!". > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàhave you been in pain bill..and thought it was > > > > judgemental delusion?...merle > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > I don't know how you got from what I said earlier to your post below. > > > > > > > > The experience of feeling/touch is real. That experience is Buddha > > > > Nature. The classification of it as 'pain' is the judgmental delusion. > > > > Just as the experience of sight is real. The classification of it as > > > > 'a red bird' is the delusion. > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàbill...i see...so if one is > > > > > in pain..this is an illusion..try telling that to someone bowled over > > > > > and in agony...merle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > I also want to add that experiencing Buddha Nature, such as through > > > > > zazen, does not involve a disconnection with the body. It involves a > > > > > disconnection with the illusion of self and all dualism. > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > No, the body is not a restraint. It is a gateway - at least as far > > > > > > as zen is concerned. The body, or at least its ability to afford > > > > > > awareness of reality, is the necessary component of Buddha Nature > > > > > > for not only humans but all beings as we know them. > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i know this is a little crazy..however here i > > > > > > > go..ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the human body..can we exist without it?...we do when we are in > > > > > > > cyber space.... although we need the body to get the messages out > > > > > > > there...mm that has me stumped! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would this body less be liken to the meditation > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàstate that can be > > > > > > > achieved once one has surpassed the breath counting saga? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâài have belief that > > > > > > > monks can practise a form of meditation whereby the can slow the > > > > > > > whole body/ mind totally down to an almost non existent state > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in all the many previous post there has been much focus on > > > > > > > slowing the mind down..however the body..does it have a mind of > > > > > > > it's own so to speak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after all there are millions of tiny organisms..rummaging in the > > > > > > > body that we do not have any control over what so ever... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (meditate as long and hard as you want, they do their own thing > > > > > > > regardless)... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a whole eco system...one could say a universe lies in the gut > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàmy zen question is > > > > > > > thus: ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàto be totally > > > > > > > free ..the human body is it a restraint? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàmerle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > Merle > > > > > > > www.wix.com/merlewiitpom/1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! 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