bill...so you are still telling me pain is a delusion?... tell me next time when you are in deep pain..try a very bad toothache..see it as a delusion and don't visit the dentist...how long will you last before you realise it is real and needs attention?...merle
Merle, As you should very well know by now I don't identify with being a Buddhist. I do however practice zen and have for over 45 years; but just because I practice zen doesn't mean I don't feel pain, or have other delusions. What it means is that (most of the time) I am not attached to those delusions. ...Bill! ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > >  bill...acceptance is the key...what sort odf a zen buddhist are you?..merle >  > Merle, > > Yes! Why me? Why not someone else? Someone I don't like? Someone who > doesn't look like me or is the same color as me or speaks the same language > as I do. Someone ELSE! > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > >  bill...not why me...that's plain silly..why not you?...merle > >  > > Merle, > > > > I have been in pain before. When I am in pain I don't think of pain as a > > judgmental delusion, I think of it as pain and judge it to be bad; and > > maybe even think "Poor, poor me! Why do I have to suffer all this pain? > > What did I do to deserve this? I just want it to go away!". > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >  have you been in pain bill..and thought it was judgemental > > > delusion?...merle > > > > > > > > >  > > > Merle, > > > > > > I don't know how you got from what I said earlier to your post below. > > > > > > The experience of feeling/touch is real. That experience is Buddha > > > Nature. The classification of it as 'pain' is the judgmental delusion. > > > Just as the experience of sight is real. The classification of it as 'a > > > red bird' is the delusion. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ bill...i see...so if one is in pain..this is an > > > > illusion..try telling that to someone bowled over and in agony...merle > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > I also want to add that experiencing Buddha Nature, such as through > > > > zazen, does not involve a disconnection with the body. It involves a > > > > disconnection with the illusion of self and all dualism. > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > No, the body is not a restraint. It is a gateway - at least as far > > > > > as zen is concerned. The body, or at least its ability to afford > > > > > awareness of reality, is the necessary component of Buddha Nature for > > > > > not only humans but all beings as we know them. > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > i know this is a little crazy..however here i > > > > > > go..ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > > > > > > > the human body..can we exist without it?...we do when we are in > > > > > > cyber space.... although we need the body to get the messages out > > > > > > there...mm that has me stumped! > > > > > > > > > > > > would this body less be liken to the meditation ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > state that can be achieved once one has surpassed the breath > > > > > > counting saga? > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ i have belief that monks can practise a form of > > > > > > meditation whereby the can slow the whole body/ mind totally down > > > > > > to an almost non existent state > > > > > > > > > > > > in all the many previous post there has been much focus on slowing > > > > > > the mind down..however the body..does it have a mind of it's own so > > > > > > to speak? > > > > > > > > > > > > after all there are millions of tiny organisms..rummaging in the > > > > > > body that we do not have any control over what so ever... > > > > > > > > > > > > (meditate as long and hard as you want, they do their own thing > > > > > > regardless)... > > > > > > > > > > > > a whole eco system...one could say a universe lies in the gut > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ my zen question is thus: ÃÆ'‚ to > > > > > > be totally free ..the human body is it a restraint? > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ merle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > Merle > > > > > > www.wix.com/merlewiitpom/1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
