Ryhorikawa, I agree that on a listserv it's more productive to try to express the concepts in our own words, rather than just repeating the clever Zen-ish (???) responses. For simpletons like me, I need to read more from you scholarly types to learn how to put it all into words. Don't get me wrong, I do like to read the koans and zen-cleverisms interspersed with dialogue, but when that's all it is, there's really no need for a listserv...that can be gotten out of any book about Zen.
Thank You for your explanation of Zen - well done - that put into words what I know to be true, but just can't express it. I am itchin' to hear more input on this.... keep it all comin'. You said: Zen is a "state" where the boundaries between the phenomenal and the transcendent have been erased (or, where the realm of the sacred and the realm of the "profane" are identical or co-terminus) AND where every "act"/ action resonates with unconditional compassion towards the suffering of all sentient/non-sentient beings.... Kathy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ryhorikawa Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 5:54 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Zen] What is Zen?/Bill --- In [email protected], "Bill Smart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... In my opinion it is important to always keep in mind that the trappings of 'zen' that we usually discuss in this forum is that which has been shaped by the Japanese culture, and to a lesser extent Korean and Chinese. In stark contrast are the Buddhist Sutras sometimes quoted here whose cultural base and form is Indian. I still would like to see some serious responses and discussions to my previous question: What is zen? For starters I'll ask a simpler question: Is the English word 'zen' a noun, verb, adjective or adverb? I've seen it used/mis- used in all of those word forms. Gassho...Bill! Thanks, Bill - Great point in your first paragraph. How does one separate a body of thoughts & beliefs from its cultural garb? As you pointed out, clearly Zen and culture are "laminated" together... In a bit of a twist, I'm currently reading a novel by the late Japanese novelist Endo Shusaku. Endo, a Japanese Catholic, has a consistent theme running through his books: What does it mean to be Japanese and Catholic? Is it possible to embrace Catholocism without the latter's Eurocentric "packaging". Clearly the same frame of questions need to be asked by Westerners who embrace Asian religions/forms of spiritualitiy. In your second paragraph, Bill, this is a very minor and trite point but I'm not sure how one can determine or judge if the term "Zen" has been misused. To do so, for me, implies that the speaker knows exactly what Zen is... What is Zen? I know this question posed on a listserv evokes a standard set of responses: Quoting a koan or giving an enigmatic response (e.g., "The only Zen find on the tops of mountains is the Zen you bring up there"); throwing back a rhetorical quesstion (e.g., "What is NOT Zen?") etc. I'm not sure what or how much anyone really gets out of these types of responses... It tends to either shut down dialogue (What then is the point of a listserv?) or become a competitive exercise in the demonstration of cleverness (which is bullsh*t) For the sake of dialogue, here's a tentative, "culturally minimized"? throwout on my end: Zen is a "state" where the boundaries between the phenomenal and the transcendent have been erased (or, where the realm of the sacred and the realm of the "profane" are identical or co-terminus) AND where every "act"/ action resonates with unconditional compassion towards the suffering of all sentient/non-sentient beings.... Gassho, ryhorikawa When the boundaries between the phenomenal and the transcendent have been "erased"/when the realm of the sacred and the realm of the "profane" are co-terminus Current Book Discussion: Appreciate Your Life by Taizan Maezumi Roshi SPONSORED LINKS Zen <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Zen+buddhism&w2=The ravada+buddhism&w3=Tibetan+buddhism&w4=Zen+alarm+clock&w5=Zen+garden&c=5 &s=101&.sig=Po0FbtpTOhsIf54Giuf-aA> buddhism Theravada <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Zen+buddhism&; w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Tibetan+buddhism&w4=Zen+alarm+clock&w5=Zen+gard en&c=5&s=101&.sig=F_GHpFcLNqggHfl02B-M-g> buddhism Tibetan <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Zen+buddhism&w2 =Theravada+buddhism&w3=Tibetan+buddhism&w4=Zen+alarm+clock&w5=Zen+garden &c=5&s=101&.sig=jj7Lo0QDRErxgI_Q0ilFaQ> buddhism Zen <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+alarm+clock&w1=Zen+buddhism&w2= Theravada+buddhism&w3=Tibetan+buddhism&w4=Zen+alarm+clock&w5=Zen+garden& c=5&s=101&.sig=w0HPveAuodjElEAXy-SQtQ> alarm clock Zen <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+garden&w1=Zen+buddhism&w2=Thera vada+buddhism&w3=Tibetan+buddhism&w4=Zen+alarm+clock&w5=Zen+garden&c=5&s =101&.sig=FajdeRl3qjUEJ_pw1oN9zw> garden _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "ZenForum <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum> " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service. _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Click here to rescue a little child from a life of poverty. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rAWabB/gYnLAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Current Book Discussion: Appreciate Your Life by Taizan Maezumi Roshi Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
