Hi Paul, I like what you were asking, again as I said I am teaching myself so I
looked up many things on the internet to try to understand. These are not my
words but from a website I found regarding Zen and Satori and for me it made a
lot sense..maybe others can comment on their perception of the relationship
between Zen and Satori...
"To simply equate Zen with satori is not only misleading, but it devalues both
Zen and satori. To say that one practices Zen only to reach enlightenment is to
forget the most essential message of Zen, which is the non-duality between the
sacred and the profane. This means the sacredness of the everyday and the
everydayness of the sacred.
This Zen message clearly states that the sacred is not in a sacred deity
separate from the world of ordinary men; nor is it in elaborate rites and
rituals performed by a priesthood; nor is in some holy scripture; nor is it
even in some future state of Buddhahood. The message is that the sacred is in
our very present Buddha-nature state. As such it is already so much a part of
our daily existence that we should be able to experience it completely through
something as ordinary as walking in a garden or drinking a cup of tea.
In other words, each one of us with or without having experienced satori is a
Buddha. To be a Buddha simply means that we all have unconditional worth just
as we are here and now. To have experienced enlightenment is merely to have
fully recognized that one has always had such worth, and one did not even need
satori to have it. To emphasize this essential point we can say that
unenlightenment is nothing more than to remain attachment to the idea that I,
and others, need to have a satori experience in order to have authentic value.
In short, to fully experience the paradoxical nature of this truth is authentic
satori."
Hope that helps and was not out of place to express it through sharing anothers
words.
Theresa
Paul Schroder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Can anyone who has had a confirmed enlightenment comment on their experience?
Any comment might be helpful. When you experience enlightenment, or satori, do
you know it? Is it possible to experience enlightenment without knowing?
What are some of the physical things tht might happen in the body, or mind? How
do we know the difference between these and what they call mako?
Can anyone comment?
Rod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Tony,
Absolutely!
Remember that to align yourself with your true nature, all you have to do is
"let go".
As I see it, the "ritual, mantras, and . the extremely complex
visualisations", like koans, are nothing more than an attempt to break the
intellect so that with luck it quite literally disintegrates. There is
nothing to "understand" about the mind, just let go.
It is the intellect, so revered of our western mechanistic world view, that
is our worst enemy in this respect so .
. just let go (and enjoy the ride!)
DC
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of yogavajra
Sent: Sunday 06 November 2005 08:47
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Zen] Re: Mu
I am still in some sort of transition phase to be honest. I feel
there is the possibility that all the ritual, mantras, and above all
the extremely complex visualisations in Tibetan Buddhism may be
attributing to my lack of understanding of the mind. Almost as
though they are all more 'things' to think about and become
obsessive with rather than 'seeing'.
Does that make sense???
Tony...
--- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I am interested why you moved from Tibetan Buddhism to Zen. Some
compare the former to a color TV, and the latter, black and white.
So you gave up a more colorful one to something boring. Why?
>
> Anthony
>
> yogavajra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is REALLY tricky for someone coming from a Tibeatan Buddhist
> background. I am so used to conceptualising about Emptiness :o)
>
> Tony...
>
> --- In [email protected], "Bill Smart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "yogavajra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > What does 'Mu' mean? I am not after a solution to the Koan,
but
> until
> > > I understand what it means (in English) its just a noise LOL
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Tony...
> > >
> > Tony,
> >
> > If you're doing some kind of academic research on zen all the
> > proceeding responses are excellent. If you're actually working
> with
> > the koan MU you're better off not knowing the
> > transliteration/translation of MU. MU is not someting to
> understand.
> > Mu is a tool used to stop your mind's contstant discriminating
> > activiy. I think non-Chinese/non-Japanese speakers have an
> advantage
> > with MU since they usually don't have to sit with a concept they
> think
> > they understand. Any definition you learn will eventually just
be
> one
> > more thing you'll have to discard to acheive a breakthrough.
> >
> > I don't know if you're working with a teacher or not. If you
are
> ask
> > him/her these questions and listen/observe VERY CAREFULLY their
> > respose. If you don't have a teacher, get one. If you just
> > absotlutely can't get one, just sit with MU and only MU. MU
> breathing
> > in, MU breathing out. Only MU. Nothing else. That is all.
> >
> > Gassho...Bill!
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Current Book Discussion: Appreciate Your Life by Taizan Maezumi
Roshi
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>
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