OMG! what a critical factor I just didn't think about!!! stupid me! Moog, please, which laptops are supporting ZFS today? I will only buy within those.
z, at home, feeling better, but still a bit confused ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Moog" <m...@pixelshift.com> To: "JZ" <j...@excelsioritsolutions.com>; <zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org>; "Scott Laird" <sc...@sigkill.org> Cc: "Orvar Korvar" <knatte_fnatte_tja...@yahoo.com>; <zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org>; "Peter Korn" <peter.k...@sun.com> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS + OpenSolaris for home NAS? > Are you planning to run Solaris on your laptop? > > Sent from my BlackBerry Bold® > http://www.blackberrybold.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: "JZ" <j...@excelsioritsolutions.com> > > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 18:27:52 > To: Scott Laird<sc...@sigkill.org> > Cc: Orvar Korvar<knatte_fnatte_tja...@yahoo.com>; > <zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org>; Peter Korn<peter.k...@sun.com> > Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS + OpenSolaris for home NAS? > > > Thanks much Scott, > I still don't know what you are talking about -- my $3000 to $800 laptops > all never needed to swap any drive. > > But yeah, I got hit on all of them when I was in china, by the china web > virus that no U.S. software could do anything [then a china open source > thing did the job] > > So, without the swapping HD concern, what should I do??? > > z at home still confused > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Laird" <sc...@sigkill.org> > To: "JZ" <j...@excelsioritsolutions.com> > Cc: "Toby Thain" <t...@telegraphics.com.au>; "Brandon High" > <bh...@freaks.com>; <zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org>; "Peter Korn" > <peter.k...@sun.com>; "Orvar Korvar" <knatte_fnatte_tja...@yahoo.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:20 PM > Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS + OpenSolaris for home NAS? > > >> You can't trust any hard drive. That's what backups are for :-). >> >> Laptop hard drives aren't much worse than desktop drives, and 2.5" >> SATA drives are cheap. As long as they're easy to swap, then a drive >> failure isn't the end of the world. Order a new drive ($100 or so), >> swap them, and restore from backup. >> >> I haven't dealt with PC laptops in years, so I can't really compare >> models. >> >> >> Scott >> >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 2:40 PM, JZ <j...@excelsioritsolutions.com> wrote: >>> Thanks Scott, >>> I was really itchy to order one, now I just want to save that open $ for >>> Remy+++. >>> >>> Then, next question, can I trust any HD for my home laptop? should I go >>> get >>> a Sony VAIO or a cheap China-made thing would do? >>> big price delta... >>> >>> z at home >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Laird" <sc...@sigkill.org> >>> To: "JZ" <j...@excelsioritsolutions.com> >>> Cc: "Toby Thain" <t...@telegraphics.com.au>; "Brandon High" >>> <bh...@freaks.com>; <zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org>; "Peter Korn" >>> <peter.k...@sun.com>; "Orvar Korvar" <knatte_fnatte_tja...@yahoo.com> >>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:36 PM >>> Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS + OpenSolaris for home NAS? >>> >>> >>>> Today? Low-power SSDs are probably less reliable than low-power hard >>>> drives, although they're too new to really know for certain. Given >>>> the number of problems that vendors have had getting acceptable write >>>> speeds, I'd be really amazed if they've done any real work on >>>> long-term reliability yet. Going forward, SSDs will almost certainly >>>> be more reliable, as long as you have something SMART-ish watching the >>>> number of worn-out SSD cells and recommending preemptive replacement >>>> of worn-out drives every few years. That should be a slow, >>>> predictable process, unlike most HD failures. >>>> >>>> >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 2:30 PM, JZ <j...@excelsioritsolutions.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I was think about Apple's new SSD drive option on laptops... >>>>> >>>>> is that safer than Apple's HD or less safe? [maybe Orvar can help me >>>>> on >>>>> this] >>>>> >>>>> the price is a bit hefty for me to just order for experiment... >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> z at home >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Toby Thain" >>>>> <t...@telegraphics.com.au> >>>>> To: "JZ" <j...@excelsioritsolutions.com> >>>>> Cc: "Scott Laird" <sc...@sigkill.org>; "Brandon High" >>>>> <bh...@freaks.com>; >>>>> <zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org>; "Peter Korn" <peter.k...@sun.com> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:25 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS + OpenSolaris for home NAS? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7-Jan-09, at 9:43 PM, JZ wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> ok, Scott, that sounded sincere. I am not going to do the pic thing >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But do I have to spell this out to you -- somethings are invented >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> home use? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cindy, would you want to do ZFS at home, >>>>>> >>>>>> Why would you disrespect your personal data? ZFS is perfect for home >>>>>> use, >>>>>> for reasons that have been discussed on this list and elsewhere. >>>>>> >>>>>> Apple also recognises this, which is why ZFS is in OS X 10.5 and will >>>>>> presumably become the default boot filesystem. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry to wander a little offtopic, but IMHO - Apple needs to >>>>>> acknowledge, >>>>>> and tell their customers, that hard drives are unreliable >>>>>> consumables. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am desperately looking forward to the day when they recognise the >>>>>> need >>>>>> to ship all their systems with: >>>>>> 1) mirrored storage out of the box; >>>>>> 2) easy user-swappable drives; >>>>>> 3) foolproof fault notification and rectification. >>>>>> >>>>>> There is no reason why an Apple customer should not have this level >>>>>> of >>>>>> protection for her photo and video library, Great American Novel, or >>>>>> whatever. Time Machine is a good first step (though it doesn't often >>>>>> work >>>>>> smoothly for me with a LaCie external FW drive). >>>>>> >>>>>> These are the neglected pieces, IMHO, of their touted Digital >>>>>> Lifestyle. >>>>>> >>>>>> --Toby >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> or just having some wine and music? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can we focus on commercial usage? >>>>>>> please! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Scott Laird" <sc...@sigkill.org> >>>>>>> To: "Brandon High" <bh...@freaks.com> >>>>>>> Cc: <zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org>; "Peter Korn" <peter.k...@sun.com> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:28 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS + OpenSolaris for home NAS? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Brandon High <bh...@freaks.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 7:45 AM, Joel Buckley >>>>>>>>> <joel.buck...@sun.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> How much is your time worth? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Quite a bit. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Consider the engineering effort going into every Sun Server. >>>>>>>>>> Any system from Sun is more than sufficient for a home server. >>>>>>>>>> You want more disks, then buy one with more slots. Done. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A few years ago, I put together the NAS box currently in use at >>>>>>>>> home >>>>>>>>> for $300 for 1TB of space. Mind you, I recycled the RAM from >>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>> box and the four 250GB disks were free. I think 250 drives were >>>>>>>>> around >>>>>>>>> $200 at the time, so let's say the system price was $1200. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't think there's a Sun server that takes 4+ drives anywhere >>>>>>>>> near >>>>>>>>> $1200. The X4200 uses 2.5" drives, but costs $4255. Actually >>>>>>>>> adding >>>>>>>>> more drives ups the cost further. That means the afternoon I spent >>>>>>>>> setting my server up was worth $3000. I should tell my boss that. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A more reasonable comparison would be the Ultra 24. A system with >>>>>>>>> 4x250 drives is $1650. I could build a 4 TB system today for >>>>>>>>> *less* >>>>>>>>> than my 1TB system of 2 years ago, so let's use 3x750 + 1x250 >>>>>>>>> drives. >>>>>>>>> (That's all the store will let me) and the price jumps to $2641. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Assume that I buy the cheapest x64 system (the X2100 M2 at $1228) >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> add a drive tray because I want 4 drives ... well I can't. The >>>>>>>>> cheapest drive tray is $7465. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have trouble justifying Sun hardware for many business >>>>>>>>> applications >>>>>>>>> that don't require SPARC, let alone for the home. For custom >>>>>>>>> systems >>>>>>>>> that most tinkerers would want at home, a shop like Silicon >>>>>>>>> Mechanics >>>>>>>>> (http://www.siliconmechanics.com/) (or even Dell or HP) is almost >>>>>>>>> always a better deal on hardware. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I agree completely. About a year ago I spent around $800 (w/o >>>>>>>> drives) >>>>>>>> on a NAS box for home. I used a 4x PCI-X single-Xeon Supermicro >>>>>>>> MB, >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> giant case, and a single 8-port Supermicro SATA card. Then I >>>>>>>> dropped >>>>>>>> a pair of 80 GB boot drives and 9x 500 GB drives into it. With >>>>>>>> raidz2 >>>>>>>> plus a spare, that gives me around 2.7T of usable space. When I >>>>>>>> filled that up a few weeks back, I bought 2 more 8-port SATA cards, >>>>>>>> 2 >>>>>>>> Supermicro CSE-M35T-1B 5-drive hot-swap bays, and 9 1.5T drives, >>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>> for under $2k. That's around $0.25/GB for the expansion and $0.36 >>>>>>>> overall, including last year's expensive 500G drives. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The closest that I can come to this config using current Sun >>>>>>>> hardware >>>>>>>> is probably the X4540 w/ 500G drives; that's $35k for 14T of usable >>>>>>>> disk (5x 8-way raidz2 + 1 spare + 2 boot disks), $2.48/GB. It's >>>>>>>> much >>>>>>>> nicer hardware but I don't care. I'd also need an electrician >>>>>>>> (for >>>>>>>> 2x >>>>>>>> 240V circuits), a dedicated server room in my house (for the fan >>>>>>>> noise), and probably a divorce lawyer :-). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sun's hardware really isn't price-competitive on the low end, >>>>>>>> especially when commercial support offerings have no value to you. >>>>>>>> There's nothing really wrong with this, as long as you understand >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> Sun's really only going to be selling into shops where Sun's >>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>> and extra engineering makes financial sense. In Sun's defense, >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> is kind of an odd system, specially built for unusual requirements. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My NAS box works well enough for me. It's probably eaten ~20 >>>>>>>> hours >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> my time over the past year, partially because my Solaris is really >>>>>>>> rusty and partially because pkg has left me with broken, unbootable >>>>>>>> systems twice :-(. It's hard to see how better hardware would have >>>>>>>> helped with that, though. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> zfs-discuss mailing list >>>>>>>> zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org >>>>>>>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> zfs-discuss mailing list >>>>>>> zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org >>>>>>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> > > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss > _______________________________________________ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
