Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Hey,
> Martin Aspeli wrote:
> [snip]
>> I do realise that this derails Maritjn's focus slightly, but I don't 
>> think we've lost the idea that there may be value in maintaining a 
>> larger KGS.
> The whole idea of whatever-Zope 3-is-designated-as just being a "larger 
> KGS" strikes me as strange. Frankly it strikes me as indicative of 
> what's wrong with this community. Grok isn't just a KGS; it's a project 
> and there's documentation and a web presence. Zope 2 isn't just a KGS 
> either.

Sigh... this discussion is just really difficult. I don't really 
understand what the problem is here, or why it's indicative of what's 
"wrong" with this community, but then I'm pretty lost in concepts and 
names at this stage.

I think you're reading way too much into what I wrote though. I just 
meant "thing using the Zope Toolkit but adding more stuff", e.g. an app 
server project or a shared management UI project.

> If the perception of such a thing is that limited... oh well, I will 
> stop worrying about it altogether. It's not going to be very popular.
> I'll note again that the Zope Toolkit won't have documents on "How to 
> get started developing with the Zope Toolkit".

True, though I hope it'll have some kind of documentation on how other 
projects can approach it and re-use it, or it won't be very successful. ;)

I'll say again, though: Gary's version of the story ("the Zope 3 
community has become focused on supporting other app servers and 
frameworks, and is renaming the software stack that serves that purpose 
to the Zope Toolkit" reads pretty well to me). Better than the other 
stories I've seen here, because it doesn't really concern itself with 
specific packages or features or a delta of those against a hypothetical 
smaller "toolkit". In other words, I have a pretty good idea of what it 
means just from reading that sentence, and I can draw some conclusions 
about what it may mean for my existing Zope3-based projects and what it 
may mean for other projects (Grok, Zope 2, bfg) that have used Zope 3 


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