I have another comment about Zope 5, sparked by something Jeff Shell wrote.

Currently we have a clear path to evolution. Zope 3 evolves at its pace, and Zope 2 evolves mostly by catching up with Zope 3, replacing more and more bits with Zope 3 bits, which often takes considerable ingenuity. We have shown that we have enough developers to sustain this both for Zope 3 and Zope 2 development. We know how to do it.

Any shift to a Zope 5 vision where Zope 3 and Zope 2 are profiles of the same application would require a considerable investment of development time that we don't have, or alternatively, endless waiting.

Zope 5 will in fact be very similar to one interpretation of the dreaded X in Zope X3: a version of Zope 3 that's backwards compatible with Zope 2. I'm skeptical about ever getting this done in revolution style development, and holding it up as the future will prompt remarks like "When is Zope 5 going to be done?" while nobody is actually doing anything about it. This is very very bad marketing. I really really want to avoid a repeat of history here...

Meanwhile, I think the current path gets us to a future where the difference between Zope 2 and Zope 3 will become less, and it will be more and more possible to write Zope 3 applications in Zope 2, and more and more Zope 2 pieces will be replaced with pieces from Zope 3. This vision has been sold to the community already and we're on track.

So, my proposal would be to tone down the vision to what we have already: a co-evolving Zope 3 and Zope 2, with Zope 2 following and Zope 3 leading (or Zope 2 driving Zope 3 forward, however you want to see it). No renaming necessary. No change of course necessary. Zope 2 can stick to Zope 2 features as long as necessary so there's no rush to replicate Zope 2 functionality in Zope 3 any time soon. At the same time, Zope 2 requirements can drive the evolution of Zope 3.

I know I sound conservative here, but I'm actually happy with the way things are working now. Let's not fix what isn't broken. We can make incremental steps to making it better, and I'm glad people are starting to understand the ideas behind Five, but I don't see the need for a change of direction.


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