Yup. Now let's drop the "3" in that sentence, because all of this applies to Zope software as a whole. This is, in fact, one way to sum up the way the Zope project as a whole works.
I have no problem with that. The simpler the better. As long as the new comers learn Zope 3 and not Zope 2.
Maybe we can learn from the javascript libraries? The first time you pick the whole package. Later when you have become more familiar with the library you only include the parts that you really need. But that is not how you start!


Zope 3 should IMO have a "click clack install" version that makes the first little app a piece of cake. Add to that a story about flexibility and automated testing; then even I would buy it ;)

http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/zopeproject is probably the fastest and easiest way to get started nowadays. One command and you're set up with a sandbox. If you haven't got Zope 3 downloaded yet, it will do so as well. It selects a set of libraries that are common in most applications and installs them by default. You can, of course, get rid of them later on.
I will have to look at zopeproject. Without having looked at it - My guess is that I would like a little more flesh on the bones - like z3c.form(demo). Remember it is for people who are *new* to Zope. I would love to see a set of extjs widgets as well.
Then of course there's Grok (http://grok.zope.org) which builds on the Zope Libraries and aims at making it all much easier. It too has a "click clack install" along the lines of zopeproject; it's called grokproject. And a while ago, I demonstrated how you could create a TodoList application in 15 minutes with it: http://www.archive.org/details/grok_todo_part1. Note that Grok has evolved a bit since then and adding any kind of ZCML or working with the ZMI is unnecessary nowadays.
I have looked at Grok. I love the ideas. But it feels like its a little too much convention over configuration. I do not hate zcml. I hate to write zcml. If there was a way to auto generate zcml and way to overwrite that zcml when needed - then I would be a happy man.
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