Yup. Now let's drop the "3" in that sentence, because all of this
applies to Zope software as a whole. This is, in fact, one way to sum
up the way the Zope project as a whole works.
I have no problem with that. The simpler the better. As long as the new
comers learn Zope 3 and not Zope 2.
Maybe we can learn from the javascript libraries? The first time you
pick the whole package. Later when you have become more familiar with
the library you only include the parts that you really need. But that
is not how you start!
Absolutely.
Zope 3 should IMO have a "click clack install" version that makes the
first little app a piece of cake. Add to that a story about
flexibility and automated testing; then even I would buy it ;)
http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/zopeproject is probably the fastest
and easiest way to get started nowadays. One command and you're set up
with a sandbox. If you haven't got Zope 3 downloaded yet, it will do
so as well. It selects a set of libraries that are common in most
applications and installs them by default. You can, of course, get rid
of them later on.
I will have to look at zopeproject. Without having looked at it - My
guess is that I would like a little more flesh on the bones - like
z3c.form(demo). Remember it is for people who are *new* to Zope. I would
love to see a set of extjs widgets as well.
Then of course there's Grok (http://grok.zope.org) which builds on the
Zope Libraries and aims at making it all much easier. It too has a
"click clack install" along the lines of zopeproject; it's called
grokproject. And a while ago, I demonstrated how you could create a
TodoList application in 15 minutes with it:
http://www.archive.org/details/grok_todo_part1. Note that Grok has
evolved a bit since then and adding any kind of ZCML or working with
the ZMI is unnecessary nowadays.
I have looked at Grok. I love the ideas. But it feels like its a little
too much convention over configuration. I do not hate zcml. I hate to
write zcml. If there was a way to auto generate zcml and way to
overwrite that zcml when needed - then I would be a happy man.
/Oliver
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