Peter Bengtsson escribió:
Well, as the weired man at zope list I think Zope will be better, as
every project in the world
I walk away frustrated and angry.
Not a good thing.
Products aren't libs. They're quite high-level and end-user specific.
Take it or leave it or write your own and steal ideas from an existing
 I have a neat idea for a Zope product so I start
coding it up. I find some bits and pieces on the web
and try installing them, only to find that parts of my
product have a name collision with parts of their
Perhaps you should look at them as one big Cookbook of examples?
Yes and no. Probably complete but scattered all over the web and txt
 The documentation is not complete.
We should have something like
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/ or http://dev.mysql.com/doc/
Crystal clear. I hate that too. However, some restrictions can
actually be good until you become a super expert because otherwise
you'll write insecure or un-inheritable.
I love that Python has a one-way-to-do-it approach with it's syntax
but still it doesn't stop you from writing non-Guido like code like this:
Basically, yes. I want a tool that doesn't try to
protect me. I want the full power of Python when I
make my web pages. I do not want someone trying to
protect me, or that makes me jump through hoops to get
there. I want Zope's few great features without all
of its restrictions.
Is that more clear?
def foo ( self, a = "b"): return a (1%2+3)
I think you're right. It shouldn't be hard. Usability matters. For
geeky tools too.
Yet other parts of your discussion show a
frightening lack of knowledge of web development
environments in general.
Please don't be mean. I've been a programmer since
1979. I've done a lot of things in this last 27
years. If I can't make a tool dance and sing within
two years of picking it up, then the chances are that
the tool itself isn't measuring up. If there is
something specific you want to address, please do.
Zope has its advantages and its disavantages, as every project in the world
In my opinion the main Zope disavantages is its own architecture ;-)
Programmers use to thing in Model View Controller, Singletons, Adapters
and so on but Zope is (always my opinion) a object tank were they
(objects) can live and this part was the most dificult to understand to
me (some years ago)
I use (as all of you know :-) ) Zope in not a regular way but it works!
Some parts are not finished as I would like but some others are totally
finished as I would dream some days ago (before to know about Zope)
I don't need to work with the finished parts I need to work with the
unfinished. Perhaps Zope community don't understand the way you want to
use Zope but you don't found any community without this kind of
problems. If we work together every day in the same place problably we
understand ourselves better but open source has this kinds of issues...
There are a lots of think I would like to do better and easily (for
example search for my last threat at the list) but Zope is Zope and the
Zope community has its owns plans. Give thanks they put Zope as open
source because if not you need to program a lot of parts of your every
And the worst solution is always here: go to php or RoR or ASP.NET or
what you want. Every plataform has its advantages and its disadvantages
Or you can start a Zope fork but you need to understand much better what
Zope is and how Zope do the work (and I don't believe that you could do
it for now)
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