For the record: my original response was not aimed at you personally Chris, it was just that your mail triggered the whole thing. I apologize for making you the target (and for feeding some trolls :).
Chris Withers said the following on 11/13/2006 04:38 PM: > > Well, he's treating us like dirt, Dario. Rather than spending time > helping to document Zope, he's gone off and built a wiki slating it. > Thanks, but no thanks... hm... ok, point taken. However: he is not treating us like dirt. Not all zope-users have the historical baggage where zope gets treated like a second class citizen in the Python community, usually with some gross misconception about what zope does as a basis for that. If he publishes a wiki with some misconceptions, so what? Will it have more impact than all the other sites that don't grok zope and therefore dismisses it? No, probably not. But us going on like "you obviously don't get it, do you? In fact, you dont seem to get anything about the web, even. Go away!" is not the way either: instead of getting an enlightened zope user, we get yet another "zope sucks"-person with a bunch of misconceptions about zope out in the wild. I am not defending his misconceptions (if there are any - i haven't spent much time reading his wiki, really) and I generally agree that spending time thinking about a fork is futile. I somehow can understand his position, though, having rewritten some of our systems based on what they should do, instead of trying to understand the original spaghetti code (but my code is nowhere near the complexity of Zope, on the other hand). Nevertheless, I think we as a community could show some class and style. Everybody needs to be treated with some degree of respect, and it's not like he's going to write a zope fork, in real life; and so what if he did, if it was better, then we could probably learn something, if it isn't better, nothing will have changed for us. > This certainly isn't the case. People who expect their work to get doen > for them for free will get a hard time. I'd suggest that people who come > with particularly unconstructive approaches to how zope may be improved > will also come in for a similarly hard time... Yes, in general, but in our case, I get the feeling that *anyone* that does not agree with the zope-philosophy, or questions the way zope works, gets a smack in the head. This is just the latest example. I am not trying to tell people how to behave, though, even if it may sound like it - I am just trying to point out some things about our attitude that we should be aware of as a community. /dario -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-Kästen, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech. Lyrics applied to programming & application design: "emancipate yourself from mental slavery" - redemption song, b. marley _______________________________________________ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )