Mike: **** Ben: I defy you to give me any neuroscience or cog sci result that cannot be clearly explained using computable physics.
Ben, As discussed before, no current computational approach can replicate the brain's ability to produce a memory in what we can be v. confident are only a few neuronal steps - by comparison with computers which often take millions of steps. **** Actually, Hopfield neural net associative memory models do exactly that. They are computational models. Also, a "few neuronal steps" doesn't mean much -- a neuron is a complex dynamical system, so a lot of things are going on each time a neuron fires. See e.g. Izhikevich's models of neuronal dynamics. http://vesicle.nsi.edu/users/izhikevich/human_brain_simulation/Blue_Brain.htm *** I still intend to reply to your creativity post, but perhaps you/d care to at least label what your "explanation" of scientific creativity is - I'm not aware of your explaining, or connecting up any of the theories you explore - in any *direct* way with any creative process at all. My brief reading is that you indicate a loose, possible connection, but nothing direct - *** What is the use of applying a handy label to a complex theory, in this context? So you can then argue against it based on the label, rather than the actual ideas? I have no idea what you mean by "a direct connection." I try to give an explanation of the cognitive dynamics underlying acts of creativity. I'm happy to discuss the specifics of my explanation and why you think it's inadequate (if you do). If you don't have time to read the specifics, that's fine, but I don't have time to summarize all that stuff I already wrote in emails either ;-p ben On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 10:40 AM, Mike Tintner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > Ben: I defy you to give me any neuroscience or cog sci result that cannot > be clearly explained using computable physics. > > Ben, > > As discussed before, no current computational approach can replicate the > brain's ability to produce a memory in what we can be v. confident are only > a few neuronal steps - by comparison with computers which often take > millions of steps. This is utterly central to general intelligence.and the > capacity to produce analogies/metaphors etc. The brain seems to work by > "recall" (if I've got the right term) as opposed to *search.* (And Hawkins > argues that the entire brain is a memory system - memories are stored > everywhere). > > That indicates a radically different computer to any we have. > > Ben:Colin notes that we do not have a good, detailed explanation of how > scientific creativity emerges from computational processes. OK. I tried to > give such an explanation in "From Complexity to Creativity", but of course > whether my explanation is right, is subject to debate. > > Ben, > > I still intend to reply to your creativity post, but perhaps you/d care to > at least label what your "explanation" of scientific creativity is - I'm not > aware of your explaining, or connecting up any of the theories you explore - > in any *direct* way with any creative process at all. My brief reading is > that you indicate a loose, possible connection, but nothing direct - as your > final Conclusion seems to confirm: > > I*"14.7 CONCLUSION* > > The phenomenon of creativity is a challenge for the psynet model, and > for complexity science as a whole." > > Are you claiming you have any ideas here that anyone is paying attention > to, or should? > > > > > ------------------------------ > *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > > ------------------------------ > *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must be first overcome " - Dr Samuel Johnson ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
