Steve, Dr. Steve Eskow wrote:
> >Dr. Steve Eskow wrote: > > > >>According to Taran, >> >> >> >Hmm. According to Steve: > > > >>the Amerindians of Guyana are quite happy to hunt for >>wood to burn for light and for cooking, and would have it no other way. >> >>That may be. However, I would favor asking them, rather than having Taran >>speak for them. >> >> >> >> >On the matter of whether the Amerindians and the Ghanaians would welcome >solar light in preference to kerosene or other harmful alternatives, Taran >says this: > ><<Go ahead, Steve, because in the same way I certainly would prefer >hearing something from the people from Ghana instead of you. So, your >word is as good as mine. I'm certain that we need not pursue that line >further.>> > >On the contrary, I think it important to continue to challenge your position >that the Amerindians or the Ghanaians or the folks in Trinidad should not be >offered the opportunity for solar lights or computers because if they said >yes it would destroy their culture. > > It would be wonderful if that were what I did write. It was, however, not what I wrote. Further, to clear up something for you, I did not write about the Amerindians in Trinidad. And to further clear things up for you, I did not say that solar energy could not work for the Amerindians. I said, instead, that it would impact their lives in ways that you and I could not understand. Frankly, you're not challenging any position I have taken - you are simply shoving words into my keyboard, and my keyboard is about to vomit. >I will provide you with direct evidence that there is strong positive >interest in solar light in Ghana, and if you do not trust the authenticity >of the email I will forward to you, or put out on this list, I will put you >in direct touch with my Ghanaian colleagues. > > I don't want to talk to your Ghanaian colleagues, or your email evidence, or what have you. I've seen enough of what evidence looks like on email lists in my region of the world, and I've also been on the ground where the people who are in the studies walk. There's a vast difference between the two, and I expect no different from other parts of the world. What I would like is half the respect that you are showing your own projects and perspectives. Simply half will suffice. You're debating me on a topic that I am not debating. My point, as others have noted, is clear. Responsibility for appropriate use of technology is not up to the 'providers', it is up to the users. Further, it is important that new technologies be something which can be supported locally, which means it can just be 'plug and play' technology as a trade subsidy. If you want to debate, debate me on those points. >The first village we would work with, which in turn will help other villages >acquire lights, is > >www.patriensa.com > >I will shortly send to you an email from Osei Darkwa, the leader of the >Patriensa project. (Patriensa is a small village some 35 miles from Kumasi.) > > You don't have to send me these things, Steve. In fact, unless everyone over there has access to email, the email describes people sympathetic to the project. In this case, I'm sure, everyone is happy with solar energy in these projects. But that isn't my point, and never has been. My point has been about addressing the negative aspects of technology, which below you accuse myself and others (wrongly) of neglecting. Further, the way this conversation is going, I really don't want to read too much more about it tonight. Or tomorrow. >Will you now put me in touch with Amerindian leadership? > > Hehe. You don't understand much about Amerindians, do you Steve? Why would they want to contact you? Why would they want to talk to me? No, Steve, what I learned was from simply being a human being talking to other human beings - something which Amerindians respect. I did, however, meet and befriend a Carib chief at CARDICIS 2004 (and 2005 will be here in December), but the Chief and the members of the Caribs are apparently not big fans of the internet. I suppose the same could be said for the Amerindians - in fact, Amerindians who do use email and so on would not be representative of the greater whole. I don't know that the same could be said of Ghanians; I never claim to know what I do not know. >What subject--including the digital divide--doesn't get deeper before it >becomes clearer? > It certainly IS getting deeper. > It is of course true that closing the digital divide, and >bringing computer technology to Trinidad and Tobago and the Amerindians and >all those of wrong side of the digital divide will a)change the local >culture; and b)create a new environmental hazard in the form of all those >computers that are not biodegradable. fAnd yet Taran and many on this list >continue to try to help spread computers and computer culture around the >world, and talk very little about the negative environmental impact. > > If in fact you do read the archives, you'll note that myself and others have been hammering at that point (pollution) as recently as this past week. How many times must I write about where those donated computers end up? And, if you wish, check out the DigitalDivide Flickr group: http://www.flickr.com/groups/digital-divide/ Further, you'll note I specified Amerindians in Guyana - not Trinidad and Tobago. They are two distinctly separate countries. Frankly, I do not believe you have been reading what I have been writing, friend Steve, or you wouldn't have asked the questions that I already answered and were derived from mistaken interpretation and judgement. Further, I think it inappropriate for this to become a carnival sideshow when I am here to discuss ideas and ways to solve the problems that I have been writing about (and which you have apparently missed somehow). I've never claimed to help the Amerindians; I simply took the time to speak to a few while I was doing other volunteer work (during Amerindian Month in Guyana, which was remarkably easy). I am not looking for funding for such endeavors, and I do not have to legitimize funding spent on such endeavours - which allows me a grounded perspective since I don't have to keep funders happy. The only funder I have to keep happy is myself, and as you are finding out that is not a task to be taken lightly. Now, when you can describe how people can create their own solar panels and batteries from scratch with no impact on the environment during manufacture or disposal of the batteries themselves, we can pick up this conversation. I've actually been discussing this with the MacArthur Foundation and feeding them information on it so that *someone* *else* can do it, since the kits already exist and simply need to get to the right places... with training. Maybe someone will do it. Maybe someone won't. But this technology is nothing new - as a child, I saw a friend of my father's electricity meter running in reverse in Wisconsin - he was actually selling electricity to the electricity company. But without proper education, there are real dangers. Use the wrong battery in the wrong place, and you could be dealing with someone with sulphuric acid burns from an exploding battery. Dispose of the batteries in the wrong place, you're going to have pollution. Create the batteries locally, and you're going to have pollutant byproducts and safety issues at the plant. And the process of baking silicon to make solar panels has it's own challenges. You don't have to take my word for it. And you can challenge what I have written, but you cannot challenge fabrications of what I have written because I will not 'compete'. I will discuss, as I have been. Singling me out to debate is certainly flattering, though, and if you want to continue along those lines perhaps it should be taken offlist. At the end of the day, Steve - here's the bottom line. When we're all done saving the world, who will save the world from us? When you can understand why I ask that question, you'll understand my perspective better. -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knowprose.com http://www.easylum.net http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com "Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo _______________________________________________ DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
