Steve, Joel Grey and Liza Minille said it all: Money money money makes the world go 'round. As long as our laws allow elected Congressmen to accept corporate lobbyist special interest bribes, nothing will change.
Sent from my Kindle Fire _____________________________________________ From: Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com> Sent: Sun Jan 08 14:11:26 MST 2012 To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Winds of Change Doug, et al- Despite my participation in debunking the specifics of the chain-mail attributed to Warren Buffet, I am sympathetic with some if not most of it's tone and message. I believe that our political strata, both at state and federal levels are generally corrupt, sold out, or at least out of touch with what "we the people" want, and the perqs of the office only serve to make them more apart. On the other hand, I have a nose for conspiracy theories that take any good issue and blow it out of proportion and inject their own brand of craziness. The Founding Fathers *may have* envisioned citizen legislators, but we should also remember that at the time, *citizens* were defined by property ownership, gender and race. So, the "Citizen Legislators" they envisioned were "landed (white) gentlemen" who were both educated and who had significant vested interests in the economy... The rest (of us?) *were* the ignorant unwashed masses to them, as I fear we continue to be to "them". I love the phrasing you use here Doug, I'm suspecting you were quite deliberate in the allusion implied with "47% of the population *liked* Sara Palin for president". It may not be long before most of the population believes that they can (and should be able to) elect a president over Facebook! I'd like to believe that 50% of that 47% were really "liking" Tina Fey or Lisa Ann without realizing that either of these *actresses* were not Sara herself anyway... I've always been offended by how much our election process looks like a popularity contest. Which reminds me... is anyone following "Americans Elect" still? I'm still getting their mailings... - Steve And how, in country where 47% of the population liked Sarah Palin for president do you envision this version of Utopia evolving, Marcus? Sent from my Kindle Fire _____________________________________________ From: "Marcus G. Daniels" <mar...@snoutfarm.com> Sent: Sun Jan 08 13:00:52 MST 2012 To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Winds of Change On 1/8/12 11:23 AM, Douglas Roberts wrote: The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work. I want professionals working on my behalf. I want skeptical decision makers that can engage lobbyists (small and large) and force them to provide public arguments for what it is they want. I want leaders to be comfortable publicly _laughing at_ lobbyist requests when those requests don't advance the greater good. So no, I don't want Congress on a still shorter leash. That's the problem in my opinion: Congress typically panders to the voting blocks that are easiest to manipulate, and otherwise is slave to individuals and groups with money. I don't see why short-term representation by distracted, overwhelmed, and inexperienced people will be any better. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
