And as long as corporations are considered to be legal persons who can make
unlimited political contributions and create super pacs, nothing will change.
I believe that, unfortunately, real change will only come with tragic, painful
crisis and perhaps "collapse" (ref. Jarred Diamond). This was one of the
conclusions a number of us in the UN came to and we sometimes created small
"crises" to create change.
cheers on a snowy day, Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Roberts <d...@parrot-farm.net>
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 8, 2012 9:29 am
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Winds of Change
Steve,
Joel Grey and Liza Minille said it all: Money money money makes the world go
'round. As long as our laws allow elected Congressmen to accept corporate
lobbyist special interest bribes, nothing will change.
Sent from my Kindle Fire
From: Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com>
Sent: Sun Jan 08 14:11:26 MST 2012
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Winds of Change
Doug, et al-
Despite my participation in debunking the specifics of the chain-mail
attributed to Warren Buffet, I am sympathetic with some if not most of it's
tone and message. I believe that our political strata, both at state and
federal levels are generally corrupt, sold out, or at least out of touch
with what "we the people" want, and the perqs of the office only serve to
make them more apart. On the other hand, I have a nose for conspiracy
theories that take any good issue and blow it out of proportion and inject
their own brand of craziness.
The Founding Fathers *may have* envisioned citizen legislators, but we
should also remember that at the time, *citizens* were defined by property
ownership, gender and race. So, the "Citizen Legislators" they envisioned
were "landed (white) gentlemen" who were both educated and who had
significant vested interests in the economy... The rest (of us?) *were* the
ignorant unwashed masses to them, as I fear we continue to be to "them".
I love the phrasing you use here Doug, I'm suspecting you were quite
deliberate in the allusion implied with "47% of the population *liked* Sara
Palin for president". It may not be long before most of the population
believes that they can (and should be able to) elect a president over
Facebook! I'd like to believe that 50% of that 47% were really "liking"
Tina Fey or Lisa Ann without realizing that either of these *actresses* were
not Sara herself anyway...
I've always been offended by how much our election process looks like a
popularity contest. Which reminds me... is anyone following "Americans
Elect" still? I'm still getting their mailings...
- Steve
And how, in country where 47% of the population liked Sarah Palin for
president do you envision this version of Utopia evolving, Marcus?
Sent from my Kindle Fire
From: "Marcus G. Daniels" <mar...@snoutfarm.com>
Sent: Sun Jan 08 13:00:52 MST 2012
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Winds of Change
On 1/8/12 11:23 AM, Douglas Roberts wrote:
The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen
legislators, so ours should serve their term(s),
then go home and back to work.
I want professionals working on my behalf. I want skeptical
decision makers that can engage lobbyists (small and large) and force them
to provide public arguments for what it is they want. I want leaders to
be comfortable publicly _laughing at_ lobbyist requests when those
requests don't advance the greater good. So no, I don't want Congress on
a still shorter leash. That's the problem in my opinion: Congress
typically panders to the voting blocks that are easiest to manipulate, and
otherwise is slave to individuals and groups with money. I don't see why
short-term representation by distracted, overwhelmed, and inexperienced
people will be any better.
Marcus
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
