Similar cost structure here in Ecuador as you describe for India. On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 2:55 PM Sarbajit Roy <sroy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Some observations > > We consumers fought for and got the following rights > > 1`The right to get the utility meters inspected by an independent agency > for approx US$3 per inspection > 2. The right to buy our own smart meter, get it tested by the utility and > have it installed by them > 3. The right to install our own check meter in series with the utility's > meter. > > I also noticed something curious. It seems that in NM residences pay the > most per unit and industries the least, whereas here in India it's > the other way around, industries and commercial establishments pay approx > double the residential tariffs. > > > On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 12:55 AM _ Bruno W <wbr...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Thanks for that info Sarbajit. The Hall effect meters were found to be >> quite accurate in the work in Europe. It's the Rogowski coil models that >> can be way off. It's also possible to manipulate them into thinking your >> bill is zero or negative (without solar panels!) if you find or make a load >> with the right pulse frequency, but getting overbilled seems more common. >> >> ------------------------------ >>> Hi Bruno >>> Smart meters were mandated in New Delhi India in 2008 onwards and we had >>> the same sort of consumer experience with bills shooting up due to these >>> then "made in China" meters and there was tremendous consumer anger. >>> 2 important changes were made for domestic consumers - a) Billing would >>> be >>> on the basis of Kw-hr (resistive) and not on the basis of KVA-hr >>> (reactive). and b) The neutral wiring and meter connection would be >>> through >>> a bus-bar system only (no looping of neutrals) and ELCBs were >>> made mandatory for preventing earth leakages. That greatly sorted out the >>> problem. >>> I believe the meter design was also changed to ensure that the Hall >>> sensors >>> were inserted into the phase as well as neutral lines. >>> Here are some links. >>> https://www.derc.gov.in/sites/default/files/Public%20bulletin-5.pdf >>> >>> https://www.derc.gov.in/sites/default/files/TechnicalspecificationforMeters_0.pdf >>> https://www.derc.gov.in/sites/default/files/Draft-Regulations.pdf >>> (for Page 16 of 80) >>> Just for your information, In the past 1 year I have paid a grand total >>> of >>> about US$ 150 in electricity bills for an annual consumption of about >>> 3,600 >>> Kw-Hr (3,600 units). >>> Sarbajit Roy >>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 10:02 AM _ Bruno W <wbruno at gmail.com >>> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>> wrote: >>> > >>> * I'm hoping some Friam member who knows a little about how an electric * >>> > >>> * meter works will be interested *> >>> * enough to get this addressed BEFORE PNM spends $ 300+ million giving >>> us *> >>> * all new meters. *> >>> > >>> * If interested I can send the full paper abstracted here: *> >>> * https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8077940 >>> <https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8077940> *> >>> * There is also a thesis from the same group that gives more info.... *> >>> > >>> * The paper makes clear that one of the preferred technologies in >>> electric *> >>> * meters (the Rogowski coil) *> >>> * can go haywire when nonlinear loads are present. The smart meters gave >>> *> >>> * readings up to 500% higher *> >>> * than the actual usage. The meters PNM has proposed for its entire *> >>> * territory is the Itron "Gen5" Riva, *> >>> * which has been deployed in the last 2 years in Denver and parts of >>> Texas. *> >>> * Sure enough, some customers' *> >>> * bill have gone way up (3 or 4-fold in one news report), and they have * >>> > >>> * little recourse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpOhTXV59pI&t=20s >>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpOhTXV59pI&t=20s> *> >>> > >>> * I intervened in this PRC proceeding last year, and may be able to get >>> this *> >>> * info onto the record, and try to *> >>> * get the PRC to require better testing on nonlinear loads. But I need * >>> > >>> * someone with some relevant expertise *> >>> * (can be education or experience) to explain the published findings and >>> *> >>> * their implications to the PRC in an affidavit by March. *> >>> * This person would then answer questions from the PRC and possibly PNM >>> via *> >>> * zoom in a short hearing in late April or May. *> >>> > >>> * I have several reasons for not wanting to see PNM make this huge *> >>> * investment (and by law they are entitled to a nice *> >>> * rate of return paid by us, the customers) in a very messed-up >>> technology. *> >>> * Probably most of us in this group *> >>> * don't sweat much about our electric bills (actually maybe if ours *> >>> * quadrupled, we would), but for low-income families, this is *> >>> * potentially very cruel, since the cost of the meters will be charged >>> with *> >>> * interest regardless of usage, and energy-saving *> >>> * appliances typically have nonlinear load usages). *> >>> > >>> * I hope to be at the St. John's gathering Friday am, but feel free to >>> reply *> >>> * or contact me directly if interested in this. *> >>> > >>> > >>> * --William J. Bruno, Ph.D. *> >>> * wbruno at gmail.com >>> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> *> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> * -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . *> >>> * FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv *> >>> * Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom *> >>> * https://bit.ly/virtualfriam <https://bit.ly/virtualfriam> *> >>> * to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> *> >>> * FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> *> >>> * archives: 5/2017 thru present *> >>> * https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>> <https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/> *> >>> * 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>> <http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/> *> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: < >>> http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20240213/093b28d6/attachment.html >>> > >> >> >> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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