Linux-Advocacy Digest #353, Volume #29 Thu, 28 Sep 00 23:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Is Linux some kind of a joke? ("John Garrison")
Re: Windows+Linux+MacOS = BeOS ("Philo")
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (Donovan
Rebbechi)
Re: Linux? ("Ingemar Lundin")
Re: Linux? (Grega Bremec)
Re: Is Linux some kind of a joke? (Matt Gaia)
Re: Windows+Linux+MacOS = BeOS (Michael Marion)
Re: Windows+Linux+MacOS = BeOS (.)
Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively (Mayor Of R'lyeh)
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes ("Joseph T. Adams")
Re: So did they ever find out what makes windows98 freeze up all the time?
("Blacknight")
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "John Garrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Is Linux some kind of a joke?
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:15:17 -0400
IN the 80's we had compact code that a computer could use efficiently. Linux
manages to do that here in 21st century. Linux is emminently maleable and
it can indeed do all the stuff you want it to do, but like any OS it needs
drivers and software to do it. Planinly your are not willing to do the
legwork to get them.
--
Counfucious said:
He cannot die happy; that hasn't owned a Jeep.
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Is Linux some kind of a joke or something?
> I mean I instaled Redhat and it looks like shit. No games, no support
> for my video card. No support for my soundcard or any of my USB
> devices...
>
> This has to be a joke?
>
> Why should I return to the 1980's just to run Linux?
>
> Linux is a piece of shit....
>
>
> The Whore...
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Philo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows+Linux+MacOS = BeOS
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:23:18 -0500
> and a life? you do have one....right? ;)
> >
well the funny thing is i have turned into a total computer geek at the age
of 51.
sure i was a hell raiser back in the 60's
then turned to a family man in the 70's
then from about 1985 until a year ago i was one of those performance
poets...
and really became a hell raiser again...but finally
blew all the anger out of my system...
the whole time i used my trusty 1939 smith corona typewriter and hated
computers...(& to this day at least...i don't have a teevee)
and barely tolerated my friends who were into it...
and now i am one :)
used to restore vacuum tube radios...now i fix up old computers and get all
my moneyless friends going...
used to do a lot of volunteer work too;
photo instructor for mentally ill adults...
i was even president of a community art center...
but now it's quiet time for me and a time to learn all the new technology.
i repair industrial batteries and battery chargers for a living and those
things require a lot of physical strength...(transformers weigh 50-250
pounds...
and the cells can weigh 150-200#)
so i need to learn as much about computers now...sort of as a back up incase
i need a career change.
so i took all this time writing to avoid just admitting that i guess *no* i
don't have alife right now...
but i had one...and probably will again soon
Philo
website www.plazaearth.com/philo
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: 29 Sep 2000 00:28:23 GMT
On 28 Sep 2000 22:50:09 GMT, FM wrote:
>>Although I have respect for the fact that you have ideas for a new O/S,
>>wouldn't you be better off posting your ideas in comp.os.research?
>
>Well, for one thing, it's a moderated newsgroup and
>I fully hope that they would not let him post this
>much nonsense.
I suggest he post his ideas to /dev/null until he has something more
concrete than hot air.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: "Ingemar Lundin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux?
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:51:34 GMT
"Grega Bremec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> ...and Ingemar Lundin used the keyboard:
> >
> >HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!......AAAAAaaaaa......good one little slacker......;)
> >that did hurt didnt it?
> >
>
> No, it didn't hurt. I know for what Slackware is worth. I've been
> using it for six years now, and it wasn't exclusively, you know.
>
> It's just that what you were trying to say above is so without any
> grounds that it doesn't make sense. Go tell that to a friend of yours,
> if he/she is willing to listen to that crap, but please, don't do it
> in a public forum, to a person that's trying to get objective
> information about some product.
that was totally objective...telling a newbie to start with a total geek
product isnt!
so go someplace else were you can bitch about slack!
slackdick!
/IL
>
> Troll.
> --
> Grega Bremec
> grega.bremec-at-gbsoft.org
> http://www.gbsoft.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Grega Bremec)
Subject: Re: Linux?
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:09:24 GMT
...and Ingemar Lundin used the keyboard:
>
>that was totally objective...
<quote>
slackware is for <titel> OberGeneral peek geeks!
nothing to do with "modern" Linux ;)
</quote>
Yeah, objective. You sure have gained credibility in my eyes with
that piece of crap you managed to post.
>telling a newbie to start with a total geek product isnt!
Now go back and read again what I posted. Did I in as much as a
_SINGLE_ _WORD_ suggest to the original poster that Slackware is what
he should try?
You should soon find out that it's your dirty ego talking here,
because Flinn dared to oppose you in your omnipotent belief that SuSE
is the most addictive LiNeX DiSTRo in ThIZ WeRLD and I even dared to
second him (ugh! the impudence!).
Well, guess what, shitbrain, de gustibus non est disputandum.
>so go someplace else were you can bitch about slack!
>
>slackdick!
As the long-lasted tradition goes, I must now tell you to not bother
trying to type random words into that editor of yours in order to
reply to me, because by that time, I will not be in a position to see
them any more.
PLONK!
--
Grega Bremec
grega.bremec-at-gbsoft.org
http://www.gbsoft.org/
------------------------------
From: Matt Gaia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Is Linux some kind of a joke?
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:20:43 -0400
>Is Linux some kind of a joke or something?
> I mean I instaled Redhat and it looks like shit. No games, no support
>for my video card. No support for my soundcard or any of my USB
>devices...
Hmmm *looks at his system* Mandrake 7.0 is still up and running. Got
support for my old Banshee video card just, USB ports are working,
Soundblaster AWE's working fine, and Quake III is working. Or maybe I'm
just imagining this? FYI, nice trolling attempt, slap-dick.
>This has to be a joke?
>
>Why should I return to the 1980's just to run Linux?
>
>Linux is a piece of shit....
>
>
>The Whore...
Hmmm...makes me think of an old fable: "There are no stupid questions,
just stupid people."
------------------------------
From: Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows+Linux+MacOS = BeOS
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:23:35 GMT
"." wrote:
> > NT does IIRC.
>
> Ah, I should have been more clear...what I meant to say was "what else
> exactly runs only multithreaded *everything*"
Again, I belive NT does that. Every process is a thread, and every process
can be multithreaded.
I don't see how an OS could force every process to multithread.. you have to
program threads into your code.
--
Mike Marion - Unix SysAdmin/Engineer, Qualcomm Inc. -
http://www.miguelito.org
Like the man said "Nothing is foolproof, because fools are so ingenious"
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: Windows+Linux+MacOS = BeOS
Date: 29 Sep 2000 01:57:00 GMT
Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "." wrote:
>> > NT does IIRC.
>>
>> Ah, I should have been more clear...what I meant to say was "what else
>> exactly runs only multithreaded *everything*"
> Again, I belive NT does that. Every process is a thread, and every process
> can be multithreaded.
Every application isnt multithreaded...
> I don't see how an OS could force every process to multithread.. you have to
> program threads into your code.
Exactly; BeOS demands it.
=====.
> --
> Mike Marion - Unix SysAdmin/Engineer, Qualcomm Inc. -
> http://www.miguelito.org
> Like the man said "Nothing is foolproof, because fools are so ingenious"
--
"It's natural to expect there might be people doing stupid things
with computers"
---Michael Vatis, director of the FBI's national infrastructure
protection center commenting on Y2K concerns about hacker attacks
------------------------------
From: Mayor Of R'lyeh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:01:02 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:24:32 GMT, "Joe R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
chose to bless us with this bit of wisdom:
>In article <39d3863a$0$34976$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:04:06 +1000, Chris Sherlock
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> chose to bless us with this bit of wisdom:
>>
>> >To regional areas which have traditionally had very very poor access
>> >(mainly through old phone exchanges). I think that they are offering
>> >some country users the use of satellite links.
>> >
>> >ISDN links cost too much. How much do people in the US pay for an ISDN
>> >link, BTW?
>> >
>> >Chris
>>
>> My ISP charges $30/month for 64k and $40/month for 128k. A little
>> pricy for what you get IMO. We're supposed to get DSL out here next
>> year. Maybe it'll be a bit more reasonable.
>
>Isn't there a per-minute charge as well? There is here.
There used to be but Ameritech dropped that a year ago or so in order
to try and sell more ISDN.
--
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
http://members.xoom.com/Aickman
------------------------------
From: "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes
Date: 29 Sep 2000 02:47:25 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: "Joseph T. Adams" wrote:
:> But for most people, loans for cars and computers and TVs and other
:> depreciating consumer items are just plain stupid. These should be
:> financed via savings, not debt.
: While I agree that doing it via savings is better, it's not always possible.
: e.g. You have a new job and need a car to get there. You don't currently own
: a car. You don't have enough money to buy one now, but will earn enough in a
: year or so. The public transportation in your area sucks (in San Diego it can
: take 2 hours to get somewhere via bus that takes 20 minutes in a car). It
: would be wiser to get a car on a loan, with the lowest interest rate possible,
: and pay it off as fast as you can so that you can, then to spend a year or
: more enduring a lot of inconvenience to save what works out to small amount of
: money.
Note I said "for most people," allowing for exceptional situations
like the one you described.
If you're fairly sure that you will earn enough to pay it off in a
reasonable time, then it may be quite sensible to do as you've
described.
I didn't though. In a similar situation during my late teens and
early 20s, I took the bus when I had to (in a place far less
transit-friendly than San Diego). This was inner-city to outer-suburb
where most of the jobs were at the time. I sometimes walked several
miles to and from the bus stop, in all kinds of weather. And when I
could afford to buy *very* cheap cars (cheapest was around $100) I
did. I fixed them up myself.
It was a terribly bad economy at the time. Working class people
(which I was at the time) had no assurance that even if they had a job
today, they still would tomorrow. That was one reason I chose not to
borrow. I did not want to be in the position of having a debt I could
not be reasonably sure I could repay.
I'm not saying that everyone should do what I did. I am saying that
people should at least consider the advantages. I never had to go
into debt. I never had to worry about servicing debt. The large
amount of walking kept me in decent physical shape. Being on the bus
gave me lots of time to read and improve on what little education I
had at the time. Whatever money I earned, after the government took
"its" third, I was able to keep and put toward immediate needs and
also to save so eventually I'd be in a better situation than I was at
the time.
: I'm paying off my car at about 2x the rate per month, in fact I think my next
: payment is due next April or something.. but I keep paying each month.
Very good idea.
Another good idea is to budget the amount of your car payment (or
more), and when the loan is paid off, continue to write a check for
the same amount, only deposit it in a savings account instead. Take
good care of the car (i.e., don't drive like me :) ) and keep driving
it for as long as it continues to be safe, usable, and not too
embarrassing. By the time its useful life is over, you'll have saved
enough for a *very* substantial down payment on the next one, if not
enough to pay for it outright in cash.
: In
: fact, I have enough cash to pay it off now, and will likely do so. However,
: at the time I got the car, I could not afford to pay for it all, and my car at
: the time was falling apart.
For every rule there's an exception. :)
In your situation it certainly seems to have made sense.
In the majority of situations I see (most common being someone who can
afford a perfectly OK car, but wants a flashier or fancier one), it
doesn't.
Joe
------------------------------
From: "Blacknight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.windows98
Subject: Re: So did they ever find out what makes windows98 freeze up all the time?
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 02:54:41 GMT
I'm Sorry but I disagree with you completely I am running Windows 98se and
have not experienced a lock up in over a year. Believe it, it's true. Lock
ups are caused by poorly programed applications, not by Windows98. The key
to a stable operating system is purchasing reliable software and keeping to
a minimun the number of TSR's, and applications running in the background of
your machine. If you are constantly installing and uninstalling
programs/TSR's your OS will become unstable eventually weather you are using
Windows98, Linux or even MacOS.
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bruce Malmat) wrote in
> <uMaA5.4594$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >Axiom: Real operating systems do not lock up all the time.
> >Fact: Windows locks up all the time.
> >Conclusion: Windows is not a real operating system.
>
> Which version of Windows?
>
> You do realise Windows was never designed as a "real" operating system
with
> memory protection etc.? That every process can see system space and can
> overwrite it. It was designed thus to support backwards compatibility with
> older software.
>
> Windows NT/2000 is a very different story.
>
> >If you want reliability, you gotta get Unix or Linux. My HP Unix
> >systems, used in business and manufacturing applications, never hang.
> >The only downtime is:
>
> Or OpenVMS
> Or Windows NT/2000.
>
> >Unfortunately, Unix/Linux makes a lousy desktop. If you want fun, you
> >gotta have Windows.
> >
> >Tough choices.
>
> Not really. If you want fun, run Windows 98 SE. If you want reliability
> (but can run most of the same software, and for the first time, a load
more
> games) try Windows 2000.
>
> --
> Pete Goodwin
> ---
> Coming soon, Kylix, Delphi on Linux.
> My success does not require the destruction of Microsoft.
>
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:07:35 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said The Ghost In The Machine in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[...]
>> Data != programs.
>>
>> It never has.
>
>Pedant point. A program is data to the microprocessor [...]
Nobody cares. A program is not data to the end-user, and data is not a
program to the end-user. That's all that matters.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:09:58 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Richard in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 16 Sep 2000 17:48:32 GMT, Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >I agree completely. I'd just like to point out that "things it's
>> >not intended to do" includes "being used by any human being".
>>
>> Sorry, but you simply can't subsitute your inability to use more
>> than one interface as an excuse to bash any other particular user
>> shell, including KDE.
>
>Sure I can. It's a well-known fact in OS circles that a
>single uniform interface is a fundamental principle of
>good design.
And its a well-known fact in user circles that a single uniform
interface is a fundamental principle of stupidity; applications exist,
and are differentiated, for a reason.
>Of course, I don't see why this has anything
>to do with Linux (and Unix in general) not being meant
>to be used by any human users.
A silly idea is a silly idea. The idea that Unix is "not meant to be
used by any human users" is a silly idea. If you don't agree, then
you're just designing a personal OS, and thus requiring every user to
become an OS programmer in order to get the computer to work the way
they want.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
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------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
