Re: [qooxdoo-devel] Re: Sebastian's control (isn't this horse dead yet?)

[Oliver Vogel]

i am not a native english speaker and so my english is sometimes not as good as i like it to be. So if anybody feels attacked - please don't feel so - it is only because of my broken english. i think, sebastian makes a good job - BUT - qooxdoo could be more that it actually is. if there is only one person who is the boss and this person has not as much time as he should have - then it is a disadvantege to qooxdoo. only a view questions: i thought, there should be a datetime - picker  - where is it? i thought, there is a Datagrid with horizontal scrolling - where is it? why isn't the split-pane a real part of qooxdoo? what about the progressbars? where is the wiki (there was one - but no one is using it) where is the bugtracker (same as wiki) sebastian alone has not enough power to handle this all (in my oppinion he is doing as much as he can. but he only has 2 arms and only 8-10 hours a day) i think it is our part to do as much as we can to help sebastian and his part is to ACCEPT the help. i had a idea how to make the best out of both world's. my idea combines a "core" - qooxdoo -> sebastian can manage on his own and a "contributed" - qooxdoo we all can participate. if sebastian then decide to move a widget from "contributed" to "core" he can do this and my "magic" (the idea i had) managed this transparent, so that dhe developer using qooxdoo has not to think about. The first alpha of this idea is working without problems and i had send this to sebastian so that he can think about it. i know sebastian has actually no time to answer so i wait til he has. if sebastian hasn't enough time to contribute the idea - kent (or anybody else outh there) can you write Shell scripts working under cygwin (i can't and this is needed) Olli Kent Olsson schrieb: Dear Izaak, Kent, there was nothing in your complaint for me to even quote. It was not a complaint! If you do not want to quote, why do you even bother commenting? I would appreciate a polite discussion. You talk about users off-list who have complained, but about what? You talk about problems in the last 3-4 months, what were they? I know about 8 developers given up the project for different reasons related to what I am trying to improve. I also know of 9 existing users not really fully satisfied the way the project has been managed so far. I cite what they said... 1. not letting people in 2. not showing respect for their additions 3. attitude in discussion 4. misunderstandings not cleared out 5. difficult to contribute 6. do not feel welcome to contribute 7. long response times The question: Is qooxdoo's development stunted by Sebastian's tight control? Yes, definitively. That is the whole issue. If a project is a one-man show the risk is extremely high that it will fail. Look at the last 2 weeks. He has been busy with other things. What happens if serious things happen to him or his family? You never know what is behind the next corner. Nothing of this I hope will happen, but who is going to take on his spirit? What about all the guys who have been working with the library and spent a lot of hours working with it? You have to realise that this is life and not a one-man show, even though you might have an idealistic view. It might be as long as it works, but if it does not.... I've seen the community do some really good testing and bug reporting on this mailing list. However I haven't seen any large contributions, and not a single one that improves qooxdoo's core functionality. You address the problem! Exactly. Who wants to contribute if it is not taken seriously. You do not think a SplitPane is worthwhile? I think you should show more respect for the work of the contributing people. What you say is that the contributors like me, Streifert, Ricks, Björn and Vogel and all the others is not even worthwhile. Your statement does not stimulate people to contribute! Why not find a positive attitude in this? The only thing I am trying to do is to point at consolidation what has been done and secure its future development, because first then it is possible to use it professionally. It's also very hard to match qooxdoo's quality of code, to the point where you must almost invest a similar amount of energy as Sebastian and his company in order for your contribution to be worth considering. What does this mean for us users? We're getting a lot more of a 'professional' toolkit than we paid for!! :) I think personally you are wrong. Sebastians et al work has been fantastic. Rome was not built on one day and not by one person. Do we really want only passive users sitting down and waiting for the team of Sebastian? I certainly do not want that, because the risk of using the library will be too high. It is not a question about paying...sigh! It is a question about doing something! Sebastian has been doing all he can to attract more developers, but there's nothing he can do until they show up. Have patience in this respect and the project will grow organically. I do not agree on this point. If you do not stimulate people to contribute, the work will never be done as fast. Even worse if you reject people's efforts... If you're dissatisfied but you don't have time to do something as large as rewriting qooxdoo's layout engine (snicker), qooxdoo would benefit most from some advocacy. Write articles to AJAX development publications. Write a wikipedia entry. Show off your qooxdoo projects. I have. Did you? You seem to have strong opinions in this area. Again, I only try to consolidate the efforts and investment in a better way as it has been done so far. Referring to your contributions, we are all welcome. Why don't you post your code so we will see it at least in the contributed folder? It would be very much appreciated, instead letting this only be a speech. What qooxdoo needs is more quality developers, not looser QA. What is this? No comment! It has no space in this discussion. Kent ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 _______________________________________________ Qooxdoo-devel mailing list Qooxdoo-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 _______________________________________________ Qooxdoo-devel mailing list Qooxdoo-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel