[Computer-go] Cross thoughts from space trajectory design

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

in the last few weeks I was much engaged in a 
"Global Trajectory OPtimization Competition",
which is organized every 20 months or so.
The task (to be solved within 4 weeks) was to design
space trajectories who deorbited 123 pieces of space
debris from earth orbits. Typically a mission would 
consist of several sub-missions where each sub-mission
deleted several debris pieces.

The final results are here (Team Jena on rank 10)
https://kelvins.esa.int/gtoc9-kessler-run/leaderboard/
There are also links to problem description and so on.

My partner Dietmar Wolz (well known from the Eternity Puzzle
scene) wrote:
> Because of the high search depth (> 100) even despite our 
> attempts to improve diversification, at higher depths
> long parts of the branches share the same trajectory. 
> Earlier missions have no chance to be replaced, even 
> if they block better missions in the end...

The search depth comes from the debris. Each piece adds +1
to the depth. The problem of "early dominators" is well known
from computer go (on MCTS base).
Has there recently been progress to achieve better chances for
"late comers"?

Ingo.


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Re: [Computer-go] It is official.We will see more of Alphago!

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Magnus,

thanks for the link.

From my point of view the following part in the program
will be very interesting:
> “Pair Go” — A game where one Chinese pro will play 
> against another...except they will both have their own 
> AlphaGo teammate, alternating moves, to take the concept 
> of ‘learning together’ quite literally.

Will the pro players in these games see the evaluations 
of AlphaGo?  And also the principal line(s) ?

*
In Jena we did preliminary exeriments on this setting
two or three years ago, with Crazy Stone being the bot.

One insights: Assume A = AlphaGo, B = human_1, C = human_2
where B is two stones stronger than C.

This does not necessarily mean that team A+B will be
stronger than A+C.

Ingo.
> Von: valky...@phmp.se
>
> https://deepmind.com/blog/exploring-mysteries-alphago/
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Re: [Computer-go] Zen and FineArt won

[Ingo Althöfer]

Dear Hiroshi,

thank you very much for providing sgf of the two games.

Best regards, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Different Rules

[Ingo Althöfer]

Dear Hideki,

thanks for all your open comments here in the mailing
list in the last few days.

I know that these days (with the losses) are really hard
bread for the Zen team. But "in the end" you will emerge
from the lessons stronger than anytime before. 


> >When would be possible to buy a new DeepZen?
> 
> Fully depends on the publisher of Tencho-no-Igo, Mynavi.   
> This version will be about one stone weaker on a gaming PC 
> (eight-core Intel with GTX-1080, for example) and two stones or 
> three weaker on a laptop.

Thanks for the info. Youo know, that dozens of Go friends
in Jena/Germany/Europe are eagerly waiting for a new Zen 
analysis tool.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Different Rules

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

now we see how clever the DeepMind team was (and likely still is).
In both matches (against Fan Hui and Lee Sedol) Chinese rules
were applied.



Some years ago I performed experiments with Monte Carlo search 
in special non-zero sum games (with two players). The rules were made
in such a way that outcomes were possible that both sides were
winning according to their respective rules.
(An example from the Go framework: Black might think that komi is 
5.5 points, whereas White might think that komi is 7.5 points.)
RATHER OFTEN the outcome was a score where both sides thought
to have won. In the 5.5/7.5 komi example from Go  this means that
outcomes with +6 or +7 points for Black on the board would occur
often. 

Of course, this is not welcome for zero-sum games. But it is a hint
that in reallife scenarios (with non-zero-sum payoffs) Monte Carlo
heuristics (with their tendency to produce narrow wi0ns) might be
helpful in finding good compromises.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] What a week ...

[Ingo Althöfer]

* Will AlphaGo accept the challenge by FineArt?
(or Google the one by 10Cent, respectively ?)
 
* Will DeepZenGo win the World Championships, starting right now?
 
* Will some Robin Good rise from the underwoods to
save humanity's honour?
 
* Which of the currently three top bots will show up in the
European Go Congress in Oberhof in July/August 2017?
 
 
Questions over questions ...

**
And one unasked answer:
TenCent was founded in November 1998 with the help of 
US-american risc capital.

Cheers, Ingo (pressing his thumbs for DeepZenGo right now).
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Re: [Computer-go] UEC cup 1st day result

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

in Germany's computer go forum, Tom (alias Bonobo) has posted two
Youtube links for games of the current UEC Cup:

FineArt vs. DeepZenGo: https://youtu.be/4uVaAVRhJxg

CrazyStone vs. FineArt: https://youtu.be/DwwseY2R_Oc

Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] UEC cup 1st day result

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Darren,

thank you for the info.

So, is "Fine Art" the long-awaited Chinese dark rider 
which had been announced already for the end of 2016?

Regards, Ingo.


> Gesendet: Samstag, 18. März 2017 um 20:02 Uhr
> Von: "Darren Cook" 
>
> > Can you say something more on "Fine Art"?
> > From which country is it? Who is Tencent?
> 
> Tencent is a very big Chinese Internet company; it is described here as
> the largest gaming company in the world:
>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tencent
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[Computer-go] Question: Time Table World Championships

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

from March 21 to 23, the Go World Championships will
take place: one human participant each from Japan, South-Korea 
and China PLUS bot Deep Zen.

Does someone know already details on the time table
and the online venues where the games are transmitted
or mirrored?

Thx in advance, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] New AMD processors

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

AMD has published a new (fast and cool) processor, the Ryzen.
Did some go programmers already collect experiences with it?
Do they combine well with GPUs?

Ingo. 
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[Computer-go] Side events at EGC 2017

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,
I have been asked by Pawel Morawiecki, if there will be interesting
side events in the European Go Congress 2017.

> I plan to come for EGC for 5 days or so. But i don't know which 
> week should i choose. Are there any attractive side events ?
> I know that the movie "Surrounding game" is to be played 24th June. 

On Thursday, July 22, there will be a (large) Board Game evening.
For Wednesday, August 02, a new codecentric Challenge is intended:
strong human vs a go program running onsite on a mobile phone or smartphone.


> Something changed about AlphaGo?

Good question. We still hope that Deepmind understands what a great opportunity
a presentation in the EGC (the largest Go event in the world, in number of 
participants) would mean. But,. hope is last to die.

Ingo.


 
Would be grateful for your recommendation.
Best,
Paweł
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[Computer-go] UEC wild cards?

[Ingo Althöfer]

Dear UEC organizers,

GCP wrote (on behalf of Leela):
> I did not register for the UEC Cup. I seem to be in good company there,
> sadly.

do you have a few wild cards for strong late entries?

Best regards, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Interesting Positions at Leiden University

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

Prof. Aske Plaat from Leiden Unviersity informed me that are
five (!) free assistant professor positions in his department:
in various topics, ranging from Correctness, to Computational 
creativity, to Programming, to Deep Learning, to High Performance 
Computing, and to Security.
He added:
> We are looking for talented young people, preferably with proven 
> grant-acquisition record. Also, we are very much looking for 
> female talent.

https://www.academictransfer.com/employer/LEI/vacancy/38609/lang/en/

Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Leela Superstar!

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,
the rank graph of LeelaX on KGS looks impressive:

http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6048.0;attach=5658;image

Of course, its shape will be more "gnubbled" after a few days.

Cheers, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Leela Superstar!

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Gian-Carlo,
congratulations to your progress withLeela bot,
and many thanks for letting it play on KGS
and many thanks for providing the free download of Leela 0.9.0 via 
https://sjeng.org/leela.html
and many thanks for all the nice analysis features!

Hope to see Leela participating in the the UEC cup in March.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Lists Have Moved

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

in the meantime I also received all the mails,
but each one with about 17 minutes delay.

My email provider is
gmx.de (or gmx.net)

Ingo.

> Gesendet: Montag, 23. Januar 2017 um 07:50 Uhr
> Von: "Xavier Combelle" <xavier.combe...@gmail.com>
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Lists Have Moved
>
> Strangely enougth I received all the said messages
> 
> 
> Le 23/01/2017 à 06:20, "Ingo Althöfer" a écrit :
> > ... and also not my own one from 2 minutes ago.
> > I can only look it up in the archives.
> >
> > Strange.
> >
> > Ingo.
> >
> >
> >> Gesendet: Montag, 23. Januar 2017 um 02:37 Uhr
> >> Von: computer...@roveg.org
> >> An: computer-go@computer-go.org, wvgc...@computer-go.org
> >> Betreff: [Computer-go] ADMIN:  Lists Have Moved
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>The lists are running in a new place. The
> >> archives and membership options should all be
> >> the same.  If you have any problems, please let me
> >> know.
> >>Thanks!
> >>Michael
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Computer-go mailing list
> >> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> >> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> > ___
> > Computer-go mailing list
> > Computer-go@computer-go.org
> > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> 
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Re: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Lists Have Moved

[Ingo Althöfer]

... and also not my own one from 2 minutes ago.
I can only look it up in the archives.

Strange.

Ingo.


> Gesendet: Montag, 23. Januar 2017 um 02:37 Uhr
> Von: computer...@roveg.org
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org, wvgc...@computer-go.org
> Betreff: [Computer-go] ADMIN:  Lists Have Moved
>
> 
> Hi,
>   The lists are running in a new place. The
> archives and membership options should all be
> the same.  If you have any problems, please let me
> know.
>   Thanks!
>   Michael
> 
> ___
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Re: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Lists Have Moved

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Michael,

thanks for yoour work.

I observed one thing:
I received the message by Thomas Rohde,
but not the one by Robert Jasiek, not even in the spam list.

Ingo.


> Gesendet: Montag, 23. Januar 2017 um 02:37 Uhr
> Von: computer...@roveg.org
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org, wvgc...@computer-go.org
> Betreff: [Computer-go] ADMIN:  Lists Have Moved
>
> 
> Hi,
>   The lists are running in a new place. The
> archives and membership options should all be
> the same.  If you have any problems, please let me
> know.
>   Thanks!
>   Michael
> 
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[Computer-go] Yoon Young Sun (9p) on codecentric game

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello in the round,

Yoon Young Sun (9p; living in Hamburg) has commented 
round 3 of the codecentric Challenge 2016 (between
DeepZen (Black) and Lukas Kraemer (White)) in
Germany's Go magazine (DGoZ, issue 06/2016, pp.42-45).

At the end sYoon makes some general comments on DeepZen
(translated to English by me):
> Zen is playing already very strong and is making 
> reasonable moves. In my impression it plays more
> human-like than AlphaGo who's moves partly need 
> very much of getting used to.
> In principle, in the whole game only move 89 [by Zen]
> was really strange. All other of its moves I like.
>
> Black has been leading already in the opening,
> in particular by help of the exchange 28 for 29.
> After the anxious move 58, 59 cemented the lead.
> After this, White could only try to reach a narrow
> outcome; a win [for White] was no longer possible.

For your memories: DeepZen had been winning the 2016
codecentric Challenge by 3-1.

Ingo.






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[Computer-go] ICGA Journal with new Steam

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello everybody,

as some of you know, I am Vice President of the ICGA
(= International Computer Games Association). After
a very long and successful period (over 30 years) with
Prof. Dr. Jaap van den Herik as Chief Editor, now a
new team will steer the Journal. The official statement
of the ICGA says:


With great pleasure we announce the continuation of communication 
of progress in our games community via the ICGA Journal.

All members who have paid their membership fee for 2016 can learn 
from this communication that they have paid already for the issues 
appearing in 2017. (Explanation: There were no issues of the Journal
in 2016.)

IN GENERAL

The main goal of this communication is to inform you that we have 
recently filled in the position of Editor-in-Chief of the ICGA Journal 
by an excellent researcher from Taiwan. Two new board members will 
support him and also an editorial manager will help with the daily activities.

Moreover, we have an Editor for the second part of the Journal, containing 
the Reports and Issues of General Interest, and an Editor for General ICGA 
Affairs.
For their publication the ICGA cooperates with IOS press, Amsterdam, the 
Netherlands. 

THE NEW BOARD 

Starting at January 1, 2017 
The ICGA Journal is in the hands of

Professor I-Chen Wu
Professor, Department of Computer Science, National Chiao Tung University
TEL: +886-3-5731855 FAX: +886-3-5733777 http://aigames.nctu.edu.tw/~icwu
who will act as Editor -in- Chief.

He will be seconded by 
Dr. Mark Winands 
Maastricht University 
Maastricht, the Netherlands
and 
Dr. Tristan Cazenave 
Dauphine University, France  

The Editorial Manager will be 
Tinghan Wei 
jour...@icga.org
Department of Computer Science, National Chiao Tung University.

Papers submitted to the ICGA Journal (see below) will finally go through him.
They will undergo a full peer review process, 
The IOS press will help the ICGA with their system.


The Editor for the second part of the ICGA Journal is
Professor Ingo Althoefer
Friedrich-Schiller-Universitaet Jena, Germany
Fakultaet fuer Mathematik und Informatik
Angewandte Mathematik
ingo.althoe...@uni-jena.de

The Editor for General ICGA affairs will be 
Dr. Walter Kosters
LIACS, Leiden University


NEW SUBMISSION PROCEDURE

This message also signals the start of a new procedure of submitting 
scientific papers (articles or notes) to the ICGA Journal.

New procedure for the Submission of scientific manuscripts 
Authors are requested to submit their manuscript electronically to the 
online submission system:
https://submissions.iospress.com/icga-journal/content/submit-manuscript 
Note that the manuscript should be uploaded as one file with tables and 
figures included.

Submission of material for the second part of the Journal should be directly 
sent to the Editor for the second part, Professor Ingo Althoefer.

THANK YOU 

We hope to have informed you well and look forward to a fruitful 
continuation of the ICGA Journal. We thank you for the very pleasant 
cooperation over many, many years.

SPECIAL THANKS

Jaap van den Herik is grateful to the new Editorial Board for his 
appointment as Honorary Editor. He wishes the new Board Members all 
success possible.

*

So guys, when you have interesting tournament reports, event announcements,
book reviews, or essays, feel free to send it to me. 

By the way, one of my ideas is to have a regular (or irregular, we will see)
column "best of the computer go mailing list".

The Journal appears on paper every three months, so four issues per year. 
Typically it has 64 pages in each issue,  and costs 40 Euro per year - of 
course to be paid in advance.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Reminder: Handicap-29 Prize

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

a few years ago we had agreed that for winning the bet it would be
sufficient to beat the non-deterministic 12-kyu level of MFoG 11
(or MFoG 12). This level has no Monte Carlo elements ionvolved.

Ingo.
 
 

Gesendet: Donnerstag, 05. Januar 2017 um 04:15 Uhr
Von: fotl...@smart-games.com
An: computer-go@computer-go.org
Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] Reminder: Handicap-29 Prize

Yes. I’m travelling this week, but when I get home I can look for it. I’m not 
sure I can find the old source backups to make a gtp version.
 
David
 
From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of 
Álvaro Begué
Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2017 4:48 PM
To: computer-go <computer-go@computer-go.org>
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Reminder: Handicap-29 Prize
 

Would you be willing to make the executable of mfgo1998 available so we can run 
it locally? Or even better, something with the same engine but which speaks GTP?

 

Álvaro.

 

 

 

 

 

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 10:32 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" 
<3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de[mailto:3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de]> wrote:
Like in every year, the reminder on my Handicap-29 prize:
http://www.althofer.de/handicap-29-prize.html[http://www.althofer.de/handicap-29-prize.html]

I think, AlphaGo in its current form would not have a chance to cash in ;-)

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Reminder: Handicap-29 Prize

[Ingo Althöfer]

Like in every year, the reminder on my Handicap-29 prize:
http://www.althofer.de/handicap-29-prize.html

I think, AlphaGo in its current form would not have a chance to cash in ;-)

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Our Silicon Overlord

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Richard,
 
> ... can somebody please update me (us?) a 
> little on these 60 games. How strong were 
> the opponents? 

they were all strong pro players. Ke Jie (humanity's last hope
in the eyes of several go players) also played three of the 
games. 

Thinking times were small base times plus 3 byoyomi periods of 
30 seconds each.


I remember the nice A Capella Song on Alpha Go from
March 2016 (only the first 30 seconds are relevant):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh_mfGo183Y

From the text:
>> AlphaGo! AlphaGo! ...
>> Ruler of the board ...
>> We welcome our silicon overlord.

Originally it was "overlords", but at the moment we have only one.

Ingo.

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Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello guys,

what shall I say.

> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 04. Januar 2017 um 16:11 Uhr
> Von: Janzert <janz...@janzert.com>
> ...
> On 1/2/2017 7:05 AM, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:
> > Hello Paweł, ...

 
> Looks like we have an official answer in the affirmative
> https://twitter.com/demishassabis/status/816660463282954240

This means that I lost my bet with Paweł.
He will get a nice meal in a nice restaurant from me
(probably during the European Go Congress 2017 in Oberhof).

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] ADMIN: Maintenance ?!?!

[Ingo Althöfer]

Please, no maintenance right now.
The days in computer go are just so hot.

The team of "Master" offered 14,000 Dollars
for any being beating the bot on January 02 or 03.

We need the possibility to discuss this topic in realtime.

Thx, ingo.

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Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello Yamato,

> ... This comment was about GoBeta last April.
> 
> If "Master" (or something) is AlphaGo, he should have a strong reason
> not to use the name AlphaGo. So probably Aja cannot answer this, because
> he does not lie.
> 
> By the way, I found this tweet interesting :)
> https://twitter.com/ScienceNews/status/814559161312808965

thanks for the explanation and your "interesting"-sniplet.

By the way: A bet on Master's identity is underway. 
The idea is that the bet is undecided, if the question is not resolved
until the start of the European Go Congress (July 22 - August 06, 2017) 
in Oberhof (Thuringia; near Jena).
The computer go day in the EGC will very likely be Wednesday, August 02.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Short statement by Aja Huang

[Ingo Althöfer]

This screenshot was just posted in German's
computer go forum:

https://scontent.fbkk5-6.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15823610_206422803154077_4501261067334984925_n.jpg?oh=1dd6e8324085c35ed14d9ae1176e33ec=591E1F54

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Fw: Re: Are the AlphaGols coming?

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Paweł,

a good collection of arguments and thoughts, thank you.

> I'd put all my money it's AlphaGo... 

How much money do you have?
You may answer in private mail, if appropriate.

Ingo.

PS. I have designed a LEGO scene on Frisbee Go:
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6385.0;attach=5581;image
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Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello Paweł,

> There have been another 8 games on Foxwq server: 
> ...
> Totally, 38-0. It looks like a kind, indirect (yet powerful), message 
> from DeepMind to Chinese Go Association: "Please, let us try a real 
> challenge, like 3-handicap games, it does not really make much sense 
> to play even anymore".

So, do you want to say that "Master" might be AlphaGo?
From the disucssion I thought that "Master" was a chinese bot.

If Aja is reading: can you enlighten us?

Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

here is a link to the German Computer Go forum:
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?topic=6381.msg208264#msg208264

The grey box shows the list of 30 games played by
the "Master bot. All these games were won by the bot!

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Tsumego collections

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

when you ae looking for high calibre samples, ask Thomas Wolf.

Cheers, Ingo.


> Gesendet: Samstag, 31. Dezember 2016 um 16:43 Uhr
> Von: "Andreas Persson" 
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Betreff: [Computer-go] Tsumego collections
>
> Happy New Year all,
> 
> I am on the lookout for tsumego collections  in sgf format with solutions. 
> Free to use or available for licensing to include in a tsumego program. Aware 
> of GoProblems, anything else?
> 
> Regards Andreas
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Re: [Computer-go] Photo of an AlphaGo Girl

[Ingo Althöfer]

click here!

http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6381.0;attach=5571;image

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Are the AlphaGols coming?

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello in the round,

one thousand years ago, the was a cry of terror:
The Mongols are coming!

Now it seems we have entered a new age:
The AlphaGols are coming!

Not only from Britain, not only from Google, not only from Japan (Zen).
But also from China!

Look here (thx to German Bonobo for making it public in the
German computer Go forum!):
http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10=13913

**

What will we see in 2017?
Will top humans get handicap stones from the AlphaGols?

Puzzled, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] NATURE: Top 10 people 2016

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,
NATURE published a list of top 10 people in science 2016:
http://www.nature.com/news/nature-s-10-1.21157

Demis Hassabis, manager of the AlphaGo team, is in the list.

Congratulations!

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Go Tournament with hinteresting rules

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,
this is info on a human-human go tournament, but with
interesting scoring.
Wins by 40 or more points (or by resignation) give score 100,
Win by 39 gives score 99
Win by 38 gives score 98 ...
Win by 1 gives score 60.

Loss by 40 or more gives score 0,
Loss by 39 gives score 1
...
Loss by 1 gives score 40

The tournament was high prized (for European Go standards).
It toook place in Berlin three weks ago:
http://eurogofed.org/index.html?id=88

Playing under such conditions might be a challenge for the bots
based on MC.

Ingo.


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Re: [Computer-go] Poll: Scientific Breakthrough of the Year 2016

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Aja,

> Thanks Ingo. 

You are welcome.

> Please vote for AlphaGo. :)

Indeed, that is one of the interesting options.

But, independently of voting, it is interesting to read
through the (short) descriptions of all 15 proposals.
Within 5-7 minutes you will learn a lot - and are well
equipped for small talk until March 2017. 

Cheers, Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Poll: Scientific Breakthrough of the Year 2016

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,
I just learned that the magazine "Science" is making a poll
on "Scientific Breakthrough of the Year 2016". Voters may
chose amongst 15 proposals. Voting closes on December 04.

Currently the following 5 subjects have top votes.

(1) Human embryos in a disc  17 %
(2) Ripples in space time  15 %
(3) AI in games (AlphaGo) 9 %
(4) Pocket sized DNA sequencers  8 %
(5) Custom designed proteins  7 %

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/11/vote-your-scientific-breakthrough-year

Feel free to participate.
No registration needed.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] World Go Championship

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Hideki,

that sounds very interesting.
 
> Nihon Kiin created a new Go tournament, "World Go Championship", which 
> will be held in March 21st to 23rd, in Osaka, Japan.
> 
> Top three professional players from Japan, China and Korea and one 
> Computer Go program will attend. 

Big questions:
* Where can computer programmers apply on behalf of their bots?
* Will there be a qualifier tournament for bots?

Looking forward to this event with big eyes,
Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Deep Zen vs Cho Chikun -- Round 1

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi all,

the match was in German TV (ZDF) today, in an 8 second snipet.

It included a scene from the press conference:
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6322.0;attach=5391;image

I recognise Cho Chikun in the center and Hideki Kato, second from left.
Who are the other three gentlemen?

Cheers, Ingo.

PS. A photo showing Angela Merkel pressing her thumbs:
http://www.wunderweib.de/assets/field/image/100/merkel7.jpg
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[Computer-go] [offtopic]: German English

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Richard,
 
> ... I'm intrigued by the expression "pressing thumbs". I imagine 
> it's close to our "crossing fingers".

it is indeed the same.

And when we are just exchanging differences in languages;
here is the English translation of a short German text which I
designed a few days ago. Did I miss something in the translation 
or is it fine?

**
Go for Managers !
From Vanilla Leadership to Top Management

Ingo Althofer, November 2016

Dedicated to Bruce Wilcox. In his famous go book "Ez-Go ... in a nutshell"
(from 1996) he had mentioned his manager courses on Go.


Good news first: Manager Krautmuller gets a salary increase. The bad side: He 
has no idea what to do with the extra money. So, likely the taxman and his wife 
will share the bonanza. But this time his spouse had another plan: "Darling, 
you should use the extra money for a nice hobby.” 

He: "Hobby? I thought you need new shoes." She elucidated: “Cosmopolitan” had 
had an article saying that only a special hobby would promote a normal manager 
to a top one. And Pamela from next villa (you know, her husband is CEO already) 
had also mentioned, that it would need such a hobby to let a manager become a 
character. Krautmuller made several proposals, but his wife ratified none of 
them:
* Tennis  -  only still a bad joke in white;
* Kite surfing  -  has too much of nouveau; ...
* Collecting oldtimers -  by how much, again, had your salary increased?

After a moment of silence she exclaimed the magic word: GO ! 
Very exclusive, but at the same time also rich in tradition. And since the 
triumph of AlphaGo it is globally accepted, with just the proper amount of 
snobbism. Finally: they also have hierarchies in Go, and just not too flat.

Next day, Krautmuller googled a seller and ordered the bare necessities: a nice 
Japanese Go table, 
bowls from rosewood, Go stones in natural coral (white) and indonesian volcanic 
basalt (black), a digital Go clock, and finally the 19-volume textbook series 
“From beginner to Shodan in 80 days.” Delivery was prompt. By chance, 
Krautmuller was at home when the parcel arrived. He arranged everything nicely 
in the living room, as a surprise for his wife. But when she came it was a rude 
awakening: 

"Our neighbor, the CEO, has also started playing Go. This means it is dead for 
you!
Send back all the shit and let them return the money.  I need new shoes!"


Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Deep Zen vs Cho Chikun -- Round 1

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Erik,

> ... The SGF file you sent is malformed (in this case it's only a
> minor issue for the date field, but some sgf viewers reject it).
> 
> Do you know which program was used to create it? (the AP property
> suggests Many Faces, but it also containes the non-standard MULTIGOGM
> property suggesting it came from MultiGo).

I can only tell what I did:
I got the sgf from the website
https://www.advancedstudyroom.org/2016/11/1st-game-3-started-punctually-cho-chikun-black-vs-deep-zen-go-white/

Then I went qucikly through it with help of ManyFaces of Go (MF). I did not 
change anything.
Nevertheless, at the end MF asked me to save the changes om the file. I did - 
and wrote
the email for the list.
 
Best, Ingo.

PS. In Germany's Go scene, some opinion leaders were most happy about Cho 
Chikun's
emotional behaviour during the game (including swearing and clapping the hand
against his forehead).
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[Computer-go] Deep Zen vs Cho Chikun -- Round 1

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

round 1 between Deep Zen and Cho Chikun is over. It was an interesting
game, in a rather broad sense. Team Deep Zen resigned after move 223.

sgf is appended.
Round 2 is to start on Sunday, 05:00 a.m. Central Europian time.

Ingo (pressing thumbs for Zen).

Round1-Deepzen-ChoChiHun.sgf
Description: application/go-sgf
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[Computer-go] Zen vs Cho Chikun

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi everybody,

there was a press conference by the Zen team, announcing a three games
match between Zen and human pro hero Cho Chiukum with games to
be played on November 19, 20, and 23.
Unfortunately for me, the announcement was in Japanese language which 
I do not understand.

For me (and likely for many in the Western world) it would be nice
if for instance Hideki Kato could explain what is to come.

Thanks in advance,
Ingo.
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[Computer-go] codecentric Challenge 2016: Round 4

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi all,

today Roun 4 of the codecentric Challenge 2016 will
be played.

Combattants are on human side Lukas Kraemer (German Champion 2013-2015),
and on computer side Zen19X, the currently best Zen version without
graphic cards.

Zen is leading by 2-1.
The event format is "best of 5". So, Zen has already
its first match "ball" today.

Playing venue is the computer room of KGS.
The game starts at 16:00 UCT (so in 4 + eps hours from now).

Ingo, co-organizer of the Challenge.
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[Computer-go] codecentric Challenge 2016: Round 2

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello everybody,
yesterday the second round of the codecentric Challenge was played
in the KGS computer room. It was a heavy battle. In the beginning, 
Zen seemed to have a clear advantage. But then lots of Ko fights
(all over the board) popped up - and spectators were partly more than
unsure if Zen would be able to handle them well. At the end it
turned out that Lukas Kraemer had not enough: Zen won by 4.5 points.

I analysed phasses of the game with the commercial CrazyStone 2016.
In the late middle game, the histograms had lots of peaks - indicating
local fights, unresolved for the bot(s).

Here are links to some screenshots: the CrazyStone evaluation after
moves 200, 217, 227, 237, 241, 243.

http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6212.0;attach=5195;image
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6212.0;attach=5197;image
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6212.0;attach=5199;image

http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6212.0;attach=5201;image
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6212.0;attach=5203;image
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6212.0;attach=5205;image

sgf and more infos on the codecentric match site:
https://go.codecentric.de/

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] KGS mixed human-and-bot tournaments

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Nick,

thanks for the announcement.
 
> KGS has announced that it will be running, for the first time, 
> a "mixed" tournament where both humans and bots can play on 
> the same terms.  This will be held on Saturday and Sunday, 
> September 17th/18th.
 
Will Centaurs be allowed? I.e., humans which use computer help?

Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] codecentric Challenge 2016: Result of game 1

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Nick,

"Nick Wedd" :
> The large peak at the left of each graph, around 85 
> to the left of the main peak, must show the outcomes 
> if White kills Black's O16 group.  

Right.

> But a kyu-player can see that that group is 
> unconditionally alive: it has an eye at K19, with K17 and 
> P14 as miai for a second eye.  

A human kyu player, right.

> Do you think that the presence of that peak had an effect 
> on the result of the game?
 
I would say so. 

"Fixing" that group as alive would shift the white mountain (at -85)
to the center, where something like half would end in white and the
other half in black. This would have led to rather different winning
percents.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Zen19X and/vs Zen19K

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Petr,

Hideki gave already a compact explanation.
Let me tell you another few lines.

> Silly question - why not?  (Assuming this seems to be the strongest Zen
> so far.)

Your question is not silly at all, and a full answer would
be quite complicated.

Currently there are two developZen19Xment lines of Zen:
* the traditional one (which runs on normal hardware, and from
which for instance the new commercail Zenith-6 stems) 

and

* the heavy-hardware one (project sponsored by Japanese company
Dwango). The Zen-Dwango project was initiated in March 2016, 
just after the Lee-Sedol-AlphaGo match. It is highly ambitious.

Zen19X was winner of the KGS bot tournament in July 2016, and
it was our original intention that this winner should play
against the German champion. 

*

By the way, it would be interesting to see which other bots
have similar problems (like Zen19X) near the end of the round-1 game. 

Ingo.

PS. I hope I did tell things in the right way. In particular,
Hideki may feel free to correct me in any point he wants.
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Re: [Computer-go] codecentric Challenge 2016: Pre-match Interviews

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

the countdown fore the codecnetric Challenge is ticking. The first
game will start within 45 minutes. Dr. Georg Snatzke has conducted
interviews with the actors. You can find their very interesting
answers and comments here:
https://blog.codecentric.de/en/2016/08/codecentric-go-challenge-2016/

And to repeat: The games are played in the computer rooms of KGS.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Zen19K: a KGS-9-dan in the making

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

the cooperation of the Zen team and Dwango provides
first fat harvest: Zen19K is on the path to become
the first bot with a 9-dan rating on KGS:
http://www.gokgs.com/gameArchives.jsp?user=zen19k

Observe: this is not the Zen that will play against
Luks Kraemer in the codecentric Challenge (from tomorrow on).

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] codecentric Challenge 2016

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

in the lasst two years best-of-5 matches were played between
a strong human (FJ Dickhut, German 6-dan) and strong bots
(CrazyStone in 2014, Zen in 2015).

This Fall will see the next edition:

Lukas Kraemer (6-dan) - Zen

Lukas has won the German Championships in 2013, 2014, and 2015.
Zen got the gold medals in 19x19-Go in the last four Computer Olympiads 
(2011, 2013, 2015, 2016).

Playing time will be always Sunday evening (for Central Europe), 
with start at 18:00 CEST.

Venue is the computer room of KGS.

Thinking times:  60 minutes basic time, plus 3 times 60 seounds Byoyomi.
Japanese rules, komi 6.5 points.

Start is soon already. 
The first game will be played on Sunday, August 28.

Sponsor of the event is like in the years before the software company 
codecentric.de

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] OGS Alan Turing Main Title Tournament 2016

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,
thanks for the link.

I expect this to become the first time where either
a computer or a computer-assisted human will win the event.

Ingo.
 
 

Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Juli 2016 um 09:50 Uhr
Von: "SR G" 
An: computer-go@computer-go.org
Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] OGS Alan Turing Main Title Tournament 2016

Sorry, the correct link should be: https://online-go.com/tournament/17742
 
2016-07-30 0:49 GMT-07:00 SR G :
OGS Alan Turing Main Title Tournament 2016 
(https://online-go.com/tournament/[https://online-go.com/tournament/17053]17742)
 is starting on August 1st, 2016.
 
- Most participants are humans.
- Robots and computer assisted humans are allowed.
- Board size: 19x19
- Timing system: Fischer Timing
- Initial timer: 7 days
- Increment per move: 1 day
- Maximum time: 7 days___ 
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Re: [Computer-go] For those of us who play both Go and Pokemon Go...

[Ingo Althöfer]

Thx, David, for the link.

In the German Go forum we discuss already for several
days about cross-connections betwenn P-Go and Go
and possible ways to exploit the P-Go hype for "our" game.

Ingo. 
 

Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Juli 2016 um 07:10 Uhr
Von: "David Fotland" 
An: computer-go@computer-go.org
Betreff: [Computer-go] For those of us who play both Go and Pokemon Go...

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/4tez82/how_pokemon_really_play_go/

Although it looks like they are actually playing Go Moku.
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello everybody,

thanks to Nick for organozing the tournaments and for
providung the reports. Thanks to the top scorers Zen
and Aya for participation and for showing their strong
Go.

Thanks also to ManyFaces and Leela for participating!
Eight years ago both were the surprise winners in the
Computer Olympiad (2008, Beijing). The favorite for Gold
had been MoGo, but like a phoenix from the ashes ManyFaces
rose and took Gold both on 19x19 and 9x9. And Leela gave
MoGo a hard fight, catching Bronze in one discipline and
Silver in the other (do not remember exactly, in which one).

That tournament in Beijing triggered my reentry in the computer 
Go scene. A few months before (in May 2008) a free Leela version 
had been distributed. I tried it on 9x9 and played a single test 
game: My impression was: very weird style, including weak play 
in the final phase of the game. Although I lost by half a point, 
my impression was: I am way stronger than this bot.  
What a wrong impression...

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Japanese Go Congress: Talk on AlphaGo

[Ingo Althöfer]

Here are two photos, provided by Marc Oliver.

Photo 1 is from the Google talk. Speaker is Lucas Becker.
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6158.0;attach=5047;image


Photo 2 
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6158.0;attach=5049;image
From left to right:
Prof. Rieger, Lucas Becker, Mrs. Rieger (she was in a Shanghai 
Go school for one year as a child).

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Japanese Go Congress: Talk on AlphaGo

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

Prof. Marc Oliver Rieger from Trier University (Germany)
is a participant in the Japanese Go Congress (July 15-18, 2016)
in Takarazuka. In Germany's computer Go forum he gave some
first impressions from the talk given by a Google developer of
AlphaGo (including the question & answer session):

* Alpha go is still under Active development

* How many developers still work on that? 
Not as many as before

* Current version stronger than Lee Sedol version but definitely not four 
stones!

* Don't believe internet rumors! (he also mentioned the stupid Ko conspiracy 
story)

* Even without mc pretty strong. We haven't measured exactly

* They also used other data than kgs 
-> radically different results regarding style

* What data sets did you use?
You'd be surprised if you'd know what data sets we tried out! 
But I can't tell you, sorry.

* Very styles for different versions of alphago

* I review my games with alpha go 

* Personally, I would very much like to see alphago being sold commercially

* For me (5d Japanese) it would be strong enough without too much computational 
power

* Will alpha go play beautiful?
Didn't you think the shoulder hit was beautiful?   ;-)

The link to Marc's posting is here:
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?topic=6158.msg203261#msg203261

An announcement of the congress, from June 26, is here:
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201606260009.html

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Video of Aja Huang's presentation

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Igor,
thx a lot.

Sorry for my naivity with the original site. Here at Jena 
University we receive 2 GBytes per second - so no delay at all.
 
Ingo.

PS. Igor, another question: Will your program start in the
computer tournament at the European Go Congress in St. Petersberg?
 

Gesendet: Donnerstag, 07. Juli 2016 um 15:03 Uhr
Von: "Igor Polyakov" 
An: computer-go@computer-go.org
Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] Video of Aja Huang's presentation

Here it is:
https://youtu.be/KoIv7oYZ8wc
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[Computer-go] Results 9x9 and 13x13 at Computer Olympiad

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi, 

in Leiden (NL), the computer Go competitions on 9x9- and
13x13 boards have taken place. In both competitions,
Abakus (by Tobias Graf) won Gold ahead of Zen and CGI.

Here is a photo of Tobias Graf, including also Victor Allis 
(solver of "Connect 4" back in 1988) and John Tromp (known 
from the Tromp-Taylor rules, the Tromp-Cook Go bet, the counting
of positions on 19x19-board, and and and):

Click the link, and in the message click on the small photo:
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?topic=6138.msg202769#msg202769

On Friday afternoon and on Saturday, 19x19 will be played.
Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Aja presentation

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Detlef,

"Detlef Schmicker" 
> Seriously, this was all on game 4?

Unfortunately, yes.

Good news: Aja said that future plans for AlphaGo
are under discussion and that there will be something.

Cheers, Ingo.

***
Info: 9x9 in the Computer Olympiad is finished. Gold for
Abakus, silver for Zen, Bronze for CGI.
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Re: [Computer-go] Aja presentation

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

the organizers taped it on video. I will let you know as soon
as I learn where it is put online.

The event was:
10 minutes honorings
35 minutes presentation by Aja
20 minutes questions and answers

The japanese "Computer Go Forum", presented by Hideki Kato, 
awarded the Alpha Go team an honorary diploma. And for each of
Aja Huang, David Silver, and Demis Hassabis they gave a decorative fan.
See here for a photo:
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?topic=5922.msg202733#msg202733

The slide with comments on problems in game 4 is this one:
http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?topic=5922.msg202745#new
 
Best regards, Ingo.


Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. Juni 2016 um 18:40 Uhr
Von: "Paweł Morawiecki" 
An: 3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de
Betreff: Aja presentation
Hi Ingo,
 Are slides or video available from today's talk by Aja on Alphago?
Im particularly interested in the conclusion on 4th game where Alphago lost and 
also any future plans of Deepmind. Can you say something?
 Best regards,
Pawel
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Re: [Computer-go] cgos <--> kgs rating

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Detlef,

2 cent from an outsider:

"Detlef Schmicker" 
> ... I am still fighting with resigning in the case of 
> value-network and playouts disagree, ...

Might such positions be interesting starting points when 
looking for solutions for the discrepancies?

In general, positions where programs of about equal strength
have very different evaluations should be interesting for
attempts to improve the positions.

Ingo.

PS. In 1999, Chess grandmaster Arthur Yussupov participated
an experiment where he good computer hints from two or more
different chess bots. Most he liked positions where the
programs had different opinions.
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[Computer-go] Timetable "Computers and Games 2016"

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

the timetable for the conference "Computers and Games 2016"
in Leiden (NL) is online now. COnference days are June 29 -
July 01.

https://www.conftool.net/cg2016/index.php?page=browseSessions=yes=yes=show

At least 8 of the talks (including the keynote presentation by Aja Huang)
are directly related to Go and computer Go.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Keynote Lecture by Aja Huang

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

the organizers in Leiden just informed me:
> We will make a video of the talk and will put it on
> the internet like the lectures of the conference.

I will inform the list when the weblink becomes known.

Ingo.

> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juni 2016 um 20:15 Uhr
> Von: "David Fotland" <fotl...@smart-games.com>
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] Keynote Lecture by Aja Huang
>
> Can the lecture be recorded or broadcast for those of us who can’t be there?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> David
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On
> > Behalf Of "Ingo Althöfer"
> > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 9:36 AM
> > To: computer-go@computer-go.org
> > Subject: [Computer-go] Keynote Lecture by Aja Huang
> > 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > the ICGA is proud to annouce a special talk by Aja Huang during the
> > Computer Olympiad and "Computer Games" conference in Leiden (NL).
> > 
> >  Computer and Games 2016 Conference 
> > 
> > Keynote Lecture
> > June 29, 2016: 14.00-15.00 h.
> > 
> > Location: Leiden University, room 1 of the Gorlaeus Building
> > 
> > Lecture by Aja Huang of the AlphaGo team
> > 
> > AlphaGo: Combining Deep Neural Networks with Tree Search
> > 
> > Abstract
> > In this talk we will present the source of power of AlphaGo. In
> > AlphaGo, we use  value networks  to evaluate board positions and
> > policy networks  to select moves. These deep neural networks are
> > trained by a novel combination of supervised learning from human expert
> > games, and reinforcement learning from games of self-play. Without any
> > look ahead search, the neural networks play Go at the level of state-
> > of-the-art Monte Carlo tree search programs that simulate thousands of
> > random games of self-play. We also introduce a new search algorithm
> > that combines Monte Carlo simulation with value and policy networks.
> > Using this search algorithm, our program AlphaGo achieved a 99.8%
> > winning rate against other Go programs, and defeated the human European
> > Go champion by 5 games to 0. In March 2016 AlphaGo defeated Lee Sedol,
> > the strongest human Go player in the last decade.
> > 
> > 
> > Hope, you all will come.
> > 
> > Cheers, Ingo.
> > ___
> > Computer-go mailing list
> > Computer-go@computer-go.org
> > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> 
> ___
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[Computer-go] KGS 8-dan and strong opponents

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

for the first time there is a bot with "stable" 8-dan rank on KGS:
Zen19A, an alternative Zen account.

http://www.gokgs.com/gameArchives.jsp?user=zen19a

Congratulations to the Zen team! 

And an observation:
Already several games against human players with 8-dan 
or 9-dan rank have been played by Zen19A in the last 
12 hours.

Likely, opponents in this strong range will help the
programmers to improve their brainchild further. 

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Offtopic: "Spam" by ResearchGate.net

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello all,

I am writing this because others here may have made similar experiences
and found a solution. Some years ago I subscribed to a service
by ResearchGate.net . They claim to offer the opportunity
to share information about scientific publications ...

After some months I realized that the advantage of being in their
database in small, whereas their very frequent mails (asking details
about this or that ...) costs too much time. 
So I pressed the "unsubscribe" button. It turned out that it did
not help. In the meantime I pressed the unsubscribe buttom of
ResearGate.net for more than 20 times, but still get mails from
them every few weeks. 
On their website no email address for feedback is offered. 

Does someone of you know a proper email address or found some
other solution to this "spam"-problem?

Thanks in advance,
Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Nick,

thanks for organizing the tournament, and also for quick delivery
of your report.

It seems that at the moment Zen is out of reach for all other bots
(except AlphaGo) - not only those in the tournament. Zen's newest 
KGS-account Zen19A (starting on June 19, 2016) is playing on 8-dan level:
http://www.gokgs.com/gameArchives.jsp?user=zen19a
Congratulations to the Zen team for this achievement!

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Keynote Lecture by Aja Huang

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

the ICGA is proud to annouce a special talk by Aja Huang
during the Computer Olympiad and "Computer Games" conference
in Leiden (NL).

 Computer and Games 2016 Conference 

Keynote Lecture
June 29, 2016: 14.00-15.00 h.
 
Location: Leiden University, room 1 of the Gorlaeus Building
 
Lecture by Aja Huang of the AlphaGo team
 
AlphaGo: Combining Deep Neural Networks with Tree Search
 
Abstract
In this talk we will present the source of power of AlphaGo. In AlphaGo, we
use ‘value networks’ to evaluate board positions and ‘policy networks’
to select moves. These deep neural networks are trained by a novel combination
of supervised learning from human expert games, and reinforcement learning
from games of self-play. Without any look ahead search, the neural networks
play Go at the level of state-of-the-art Monte Carlo tree search programs that
simulate thousands of random games of self-play. We also introduce a new
search algorithm that combines Monte Carlo simulation with value and policy
networks. Using this search algorithm, our program AlphaGo achieved a 99.8%
winning rate against other Go programs, and defeated the human European Go
champion by 5 games to 0. In March 2016 AlphaGo defeated Lee Sedol, the
strongest human Go player in the last decade. 


Hope, you all will come.

Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] DarkForest is open-source now.

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

thanks to Yuangdong for the publication which will
definitely help our scene to make progress.


Von: "Petr Baudis" 
> My personal opinion is that it's fine:
> ... 
> 
>   Let's not let this discussion overshadow the fact that we have the new
> strongest open source bot!  Congratulations and huge thanks to FAIR for
> releasing it as open source.  (At least if/until Pachi gets proper NN
> support as well. ;-)

Thanks also to Petr for his friendly view
on the topic.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] June KGS bot tournament: 9x9

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Nick,
you gave an invalid link. The links are

Formal division:
http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=1045
 
Open division:
http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=1046

Cheers, Ingo.


**
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 09. Juni 2016 um 22:19 Uhr
Von: "Nick Wedd" 
An: computer-go@computer-go.org
Betreff: [Computer-go] June KGS bot tournament: 9x9

The June KGS bot tournament will start on Sunday, June 19th, at 08:00 UTC and 
end by 14:40 UTC.  It will use 9x9 boards, with time limits of 9 minutes each 
plus very fast Canadian overtime, and komi of 7.  See 
http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=1044
 
It will be a Swiss tournament, as usual.  My investigation of the McMahon 
format, as implemented on KGS, found no advantage over Swiss, and some 
disadvantages.
 
Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament Registration" in 
the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com[mapr...@gmail.com] .
 
Nick--
Nick Wedd      
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Re: [Computer-go] Leela 0.6.2, OpenCL support, including GTP engines

[Ingo Althöfer]

Wow!

What a wondeful summer present.
And so simple to install under Windows...

For all who do not know: LeelaBot is active on KGS,
with a very stable 3-dan rating:
http://www.gokgs.com/gameArchives.jsp?user=leelabot

And it has an analysis mode (showing best move, 
%, and principal line).

Thanks a lot, Gian-Carlo!

Ingo.


"Gian-Carlo Pascutto" 
> I've done a major update of Leela, including integration of DCNN, and
> optional usage of OpenCL to speed things up via the GPU.
> 
> https://sjeng.org/leela.html
uter-go
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[Computer-go] AlphaGo to play against Ke Jie

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

during the amateur World Championships in Wuxi 
the new president of the international Go Association, 
Yang Jun'an, announced that Chinese young star Ke Jie
will play against AlphaGo.

No fixed date was announced, yet.
Does someone here know more details?

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Commercial Go software and high-end users

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi David,

"David Ongaro" 
> ...  I guess you already have to be a quite strong player in 
> order to see these nuggets in a sea of weaker moves...

* likely we are speaking about different things. By "analysis"
I mainly mean analysis of own games, not analysis of other
games (between stronger players).
(Example Gerhard Knop: 4-kyu in over-the-board, but 9-dan
in correspondence go with computer help)

* An analyst does not always have to see everything correctly.
It is enough, wenn the computer help improves over his skills
als a singular analyst.


> Note that I'm not singing in this strange chorus of 
> disappointment over CS performance in the game against Haylee. 

I fully subscribe to this. Such games simply happen.
My concerns are that a strong engine (let it be CS or Zen or ...)
may not get a proper interface for analysis.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Commercial Go software and high-end users

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

"Gian-Carlo Pascutto" 
> On 31-05-16 22:56, David Ongaro wrote:
> > I might overestimating it, but on the other hand I guess a Professor
> > like Rémi has much more obligations other then writing Go Software...
> 
> I don't really want to answer in Remi's place, but I think he's working
> fulltime on Go now. 

my 2 Cent (as a Professor): Rémi would be an idiot not to work 100 %
on Computer Go in these days.
The iron is hot (and work on computer Go is research).

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Commercial Go software and high-end users

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Petr,


"Petr Baudis" 
> (I also think that it's algorithmically a lot more complicated to build
> these analysis tools for Go, for example adding a good tsumego solver to
> your program.  

It is not necessary to wait for a strong tsumego solver before
spreading a nice analysis tool. Start with what you have and
add new "modules" when they become available. (That is also
the way, ChessBase did it.)

 
> > > > ... And for that it would be very helpful to have a few popular top 
> > > > players
> > > > using it.
> > ... currently there is also no good analysis software in the Asian market.
> 
> But you need to do marketing, write documentation, user interface,
> recruit pro players... 

Right. And finding a strong pro as a PR locomotive should be one of the
first steps.
By the way: I started this thread not with the intention to force for instance 
Rémi
into such a project, but I had in mind mainly suitable people from Japan or 
Korea.
(I hope at leaast some of them are reading this.)

> ... And most importantly, talk to the users, spread the word
> and hear feedback.  

Right. That is exactly what ChessBase started to provide in the late 1980's for
Chess. "We" need a company in particular dedicated to Go software, not one
like Unbalance where computer Go is sort of a fifth wheel.


>  I don't think it pays off to target western market primarily in Go.  

Fully agreed.
Make a nice Japanese or Korean Go analysis program available, and everything
else will come by itself (including me learning Japanese or Korean language :-).


> ... you must come from East Asia, or have a local company as a distributor.

The success of ChessBase was that they were not existing already but were
created only for the Chess software field.


> (If I take a model example of CrazyStone as a program crossing the
> barrier I mentioned, it uses a local producer to do the marketing and
> distribution.  

with the problem: Unbalance is not specialized in computer Go. They even
seem to have problems to understand what analysis in Go is.


> ... This is *not meant as a criticism* of Remi, 
> ...  For a Western programmer, trying to enter East
> Asian markets as the "Matthias Wuellenweber" of Go, you need to find
> your "Frederic Friedel" as a true partner fluent in that geo area,
> which is challenging.

Fully agreed. A Frederic Friedel for Go is needed - and he has to "activate"
suitable top pro players.

As a wrote in the German computer Go forum: on some days I regret that
Go is not a Western game.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Commercial Go software and high-end users

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Petri,
 
"Petri Pitkanen" 
> ... I do doubt if strong go programs give too much for analysis. 
> Even if they are 1p and can show you a better move it is not worth 
> much for a human when there is no reasoning available how to zoom 
> into that move. 

that is just my point. The program needs some interface features
to become really helpful as a tool for analysis. In chess, such
features were introduced (in the early 1990's; mainly by ChessBase)
and became common soon.

> Even in chess no-one really gains form computer analysis. 

Very wrong.

From the mid 1990's most strong correspondence chess players
use computer help intensively; and a few years later the
same started in opening preparation for over-the-table grandmasters.

Example: In 2002 Tonu Oim (Estonia) got his second World Champion
Title with the help of friends from Finland [sic!] and their chess
programs. 

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Commercial Go software and high-end users

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Petr,

"Petr Baudis" 
> > ... It is enough that the [CHESS] program is tactically strong.
> 
>   But strong Go programs are traditionally strategically strong, but
> tactically *weak*. 

"tactical" was meant for Chess. In Go, players may use
"the other strengths" of go programs. For instance, in November
Benjamin Teuber (6d, one of the top German players) was impresssed
by CrazyStone's analysis of one of his games (against FJ Dickhut).
Teuber: "Some of CS' moves were eye-openers for me. I had never
thought about those interesting moves."

> We still don't have a good publicly available tsumego
> solver.  I think this makes their capabilities a lot less useful for
> game analysis.

Agreed. Concerning tactics, time is not really ripe, yet.


> > ... And for that it would be very helpful to have a few popular top players
> > using it.
> 
>   So my main hypothesis is that the English-speaking market is very
> small, and the East Asian language barrier(s) prevent a lot of network
> effects to kick in; 

The analysis does not need to be English-based. For me, Japanese or Korean
interface software would also be nice, but currently there is also no 
good analysis software in the Asian market.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Chinese AI challenge to AlphaGo

[Ingo Althöfer]

"Marco Scheurer" 
> Does anybody have any recent information about this project, or know how to 
> get in touch with this team?

Their KGS Account (GoBeta) was last active on April 27.
https://www.gokgs.com/gameArchives.jsp?user=gobeta=2016=4

I have a contact address but am not allowed to make it public.

Write me a private mail with reason for your wish to contact them.

Ingo.

 
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Re: [Computer-go] Commercial Go software and high-end users

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Gian-Carlo,

"Gian-Carlo Pascutto" <g...@sjeng.org>
> On 29/05/2016 13:48, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:
> > ... ChessBase was founded in 1985 ...
> > Very early Garry Kasparov (World Champion in those days, 1986) 
> > got involved and presented his use of the software in PR events. 
> 
> ... the obvious question here is: what were they actually using the 
> software for? Chess programs on PC's must've been very, very weak in 1986.

The best in 1986 were stand-alone machines (Mephisto), programmed
by Richard Lang, rating about 2100. They improved quickly.

> ... mostly for the database functionality
> and variation saving during opening analysis right? (A strength of
> Kasparov).

Right, in the very first years. But in 1990, Karpov [sic!] already used a
(stand-alone) chess computer (strength around 2250) for help in analysing 
adjourned games in his title match against Kasparov.

In Winter 1990/91 ChessBase published the PC program Fritz which
directly became an analysis engine for the database program.
(And in November 1992, Fritz2 got rank 5 in the World Championships.)

In Winter 1993/94 programs with k-best mode became available in
the ChessBase software (strength around 2300 on normal PCs).

One point is: The absolute strength of the program need not to be
better than the strength of the player who uses it for analysis purposes.
It is enough that the program is tactically strong.

Another point: Once you have a database program with nice functionality,
it is only a question of short time until it is supported by playing
programs.


> I suspect fuseki/joseki software already exists, not necessarily from
> the same people selling the best engines.

That ist the problem: Missing in the Go scene is a company with
overall expertise and the will to push forward (supported by
strong players).

 
> On the other hand, commercial engines are probably close to breaking the
> 1p barrier soon. At which point they'll become analysis tools even for
> the higher echelon of players, if initial resistance to "a new thing"
> can be overcome.

And for that it would be very helpful to have a few popular top players
using it.

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Commercial Go software and high-end users

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi all,

in the last few weeks I had moments where I did not feel
well because of deficiencies of commercial go bots. I am
in particular sensible (you may also say "spoiled") because I 
know how much better things were (and are) in the Chess world. 

In particular, I use game playing software for the purpose of
analysis. It seems that the special (positive) role of the
"ChessBase" company in the Chess world is responsible for my opinion. 
ChessBase was founded in 1985 by two guys: the programmer
Matthias Wuellenweber and the PR man Frederic Friedel.
The only field of the company was the development of software
for Chess (no other games; no other fields of software).
It turned out to be a very important aspect that Mr. Friedel
did (and does) a superb job in creating contacts with top Chess
players:

Very early Garry Kasparov (World Champion in those days, 1986) got involved
and presented his use of the software in PR events. Other top players using 
and praising ChessBase software were 
- Vishy Anand 
- Nigel Short
- the Polgar sisters
- John Nunn
and even former World Champion Boris Spasski (asking Friedel to "fill my
Samowar" when he needed new portions of databases).


In Go, the situation is rather different: so far not a single really strong 
player is known to work with commercial Go software (Fan Hui is an exception,
but he works with AlphaGo only which is not publicly available).

Is there a chance that this will change soon?
High-end users would definitely encourage companies to improve their
go programs - and encourage other Go players to use the software in
nontrivial ways.

Ingo.

PS. Another aspect is that the correspondence Chess scene helped to
improve Chess programs as tools for analysis. Unfortunately, the
correspondence Go scene is negligible. (One of the few exceptions
is 9.5-dan Gerhard Knop on LittleGolem.net, who was 4-kyu only in 
over-the-board play.)

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Re: [Computer-go] Crazystone Interface and Analysis

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

"Johannes Laire" 
> The 2013 version is quite usable in wine, and the screenshots of the
> new version look exactly the same so I would expect it to work as
> well. 

maybe the following bit of information helps.
I do not have Wine, but I own both the 2013 and the 2016 Unbalance 
versions of CrazyStone. Although the screens look almost identical, the
interfaces work differently. In "human-vs-human" mode it takes

* 45 seconds to enter 38 moves by mouse clicks in CS-2013
* 71 seconds to enter the same 38 moves by mouse clicks in CS-2016

The delay when entering moves/games in CS-2016, is annoying.

***
One nice analysis feature of CS-2016:
You can load an sgf, and at some point X in the game open "computer-vs-computer"
mode (with strength levels of your choice; even different ones for the two 
sides); 
then CS-2106 will play the game until the end in autoplay mode. 
You can repeat that to get more than one continuation from X (CS-2016 works
randomly).

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] codecentric Challenge 2016

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi,

like in the years before, also in Fall 2016 a codecentric Challenge (best-of-5 
match) between a strong Go bot and a top German player will take place. 

Our plan is to invite the gold medal winner of the 19x19 Computer Olympiad (to 
take
place in Leiden in early July) for this event. So, one more reason to 
participate
in the Olympiad.

Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Selfplay Phenomena

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Gian-Carlo,

> Unsurprisingly, self-play favors extreme selectivity, but this does not
> hold against other opponents.

is this just your personal experience, or are there systematic experiments on 
this?
Is it true "only" for MCTS (and vairants) or also for game tree search in chess?

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Question on TPU hardware

[Ingo Althöfer]

I have a question (maybe to Aja):

Concerning the TPU hardware used in AlphaGo, how long will it take 
until that system (all together, including Go software) will be
available for 20,000 Euro or less?

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Gian-Carlo,

I have thought carefully about your question on
determinning handicaps properly.
It seems you are very right with your doubts

> The first obvious question is then: how will you determine the handicaps?

A naive approach would be to take the KGS ranks of the bots.
But even for those who really have this may be a problem. Namely,
the program may use other/stronger hardware in the tournament,
or may have made a jump in performance without playing openly 
on KGS. 
 
> As to the "large gaps in strength": the actual rating of Zen is 
> 1 stone above abakus, which is 1 stone above HiraBot. That seems 
> to conflict with your classification.

Yes, but only according to KGS ranks. My impression yesterday was
that Zen has made another jump in performance and is now more
an 8-dan than a 7-dan. But this is indeed only a personal opinion
and can not be taken for "serious" handicapping.

Concerning abakus and Hirabot, it is indeed my opinion that they
are at most 1 stone apart of each other.

In total: my handicap idea seems not to be practicable.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Nick,

thanks for organizing the tournament and also for the 
report. I found one small inconsistency:
You write that Imrsel had connection problems in
round 2 against matilda. But in round 2, imrsel had
been paired with abakus, according to the table.
 

Another point for discussion:
Although there were only six participants they split in
at least 4 classes, seperated by large gaps in strength:
Zen >> abakus, HiraBot >> LeelaBot >> Imrsel, matilda
Perhaps it makes really sense to think about a tournament
with handicaps.  
 
Ingo.

PS. Nice to see Leela back after such a long break.




Gesendet: Montag, 09. Mai 2016 um 15:33 Uhr
Von: "Nick Wedd" 
An: computer-go@computer-go.org
Betreff: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

Congratulations to Xen19X, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament, with 12 
wins from 12 games!
 
My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/122/index.html
As always, I will welcome your comments and corrections.
 
Nick--
Nick Wedd      
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[Computer-go] COmputer Olympiads 2016 and 2011

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello everybody,


(i) This year the Computer Olympiad takes place in Leiden (NL),
from June 27 to July 03. The deadline for participation
is approaching quickly: participants have to register
until May 15 (otherwise their fees double). More info here:
http://icga.leidenuniv.nl/

(ii) Five years ago, the ICGA Computer Olympiad took place
in Tilburg. I looked in some old folders and found a
few pictures on the computer Go part of that event.
You can watch them here:
http://althofer.de/tilburg-2011-go.html

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Analysis of the match between Lee Sedol and AlphaGo

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello,

an analysis in several portions may be found in the following blog:
http://deeplearningskysthelimit.blogspot.de/

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] May KGS bot tournament

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Aja,

sorry for this. Of course I meant the bot "Aya".

It seems, I will never learn it consistently.
Somehow my neural net has a blur at "j" and "y".
 
> Thanks Ingo for listing me with two strong Go programs. 
> I think I can give GnuGo 9 stones on 19x19 board. :)
 
Hmm, not 10 ?

But seriously: How many stones can give current AlphaGo to GnuGo?

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Claude Shannon and an empty triangle

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi all,

exactly 100 years before today Claude Shannon was born. He is the
father of computer chess, with his seminal paper from 1950 in
the "Philosophical Magazine". 

Google honors him (just today) with a special doodle in their
search engine:
Claude juggling with the digits 1 and 0 and 0.

https://www.google.de/?gws_rd=ssl

Go also has its small place in the doodle: an empty black
triangle in the upper right.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] US Go Congress 2016 "Computer Go Afternoon" invitation

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello all,

> Google DeepMind team members Aja Huang 7d and Hui Fan 2P 
> have just confirmed that they’ll attend this year’s US Go 
> Congress in Boston...

I just understood (at least I believe so) why Fan Hui is going to
the US Congress (in Boston) in summer and not to the European Congress
in St. Petersburg. He was already in St. Petersburg for a test trip
in February. You can see his experiences with the taxi drivers
at St.P airport between 2m14s and 2m30s of the following video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syu8ZeDBBVE

Ingo.

PS. The lady next to him in the airport hall is Manja Marz, human part of
the "Crazy Manja" team during the EGC 2015 in Liberec.
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Re: [Computer-go] Is Go group status recognition by CNN possible?

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Erik,

>> Likely it is almost impossible for neural nets of "moderate" size
>> to identify life/death stati of a groups.
>
> No. Neural nets (even shallow ones like we used over a decade ago) 
> are quite capable to identify life/death. Sure you can construct 
> pathological examples that in theory require some form of recursion, 

That is what I had in mind with my statement: constructing artificial
pattern that would foul "normal" NN.


> but in practice this now seems to be mostly a non-issue. 
 
Agreed,

Ingo. 
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Re: [Computer-go] Is Go group status recognition by CNN possible?

[Ingo Althöfer]

Likely it is almost impossible for neural nets of "moderate" size
to identify life/death stati of a groups.

One difficult example (in the spirit of old Minsky/Papert who asked perceptrons
to identify the connectivity status of a "picture") might be the following 
X-"around the board"-group which is unconditionally alive (due to the two
eyes in upper left and lower right corner). Here I show it for 9x9-board size:

. X X X X X X X X
X . . . . . . . X
X . . . . . . . X
X . . . . . . . X
X . . . . . . . X
X . . . . . . . X
X . . . . . . . X
X . . . . . . . X
X X X X X X X X .

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Lee Sedol's reviews on AlphaGo games

[Ingo Althöfer]

Oliver, my new friend!
Thanks a lot for the link.

Very interesting photos - and also the
long list of (49) comments is interesting.

Thanks again, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Lee Sedol's reviews on AlphaGo games

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Aja,

thanks for the reply.
 
> David Silver did show AlphaGo's value graph of game 1 in his talk in UCL. 

Was that the talk on March 24?
A pity, that I missed it...

> AlphaGo's value at move 102 was higher than 60%. I'm not allowed to share the 
> graph now 
> but I hope I have answered your question.
 
Each single bit of information is appreciated :-)

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] US Go Congress 2016 "Computer Go Afternoon" invitation

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Michael,

thanks for the very interesting information!
 
>>> We already have confirmed attendance from the AlphaGo team. 
>>
>> * Who from the AlphaGo tram intends to come to the US Go Congress?
>
>
> This from the ejournal, minus the photo:
> Google DeepMind team members Aja Huang 7d and Hui Fan 2P have just 
> confirmed that they’ll attend this year’s US Go Congress in Boston. 

Wow! My congratulations to the organizers of the US Congress. They
managed to get two of the central persons from the AlphaGo team
(the other two being David Silver and Demis Hassabis).

For the European Go Congress (in St. Petersburg, same time as US Congress) 
this means that title defender Fan Hui (European Champion 2013-2015) will
not defend his title.

> ... Dr. Huang (right) ... will give the keynote speech — together with 
> European champion Hui Fan 2p — at the Congress opening ceremony on July 30. 

I know Aja from previous Computer Games conferences (in particular
Leiden 2011). He is a very good and entertaining speaker. So, congratulations
again to get him engaged!


> ... We are working on confirming attendance with some other teams, 

They should definitely try to get David Fotland. He (living at the
West coast) is - at least in my eyes - the great old man of Computer Go.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] US Go Congress 2016 "Computer Go Afternoon" invitation

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello Chun Sun,
 
> We already have confirmed attendance from the AlphaGo team. 

one question out of interest: 
* Who from the AlphaGo tram intends to come to the US Go Congress?
* Will they have a demo version of AlphaGo with them?

> ... We are working on confirming attendance with some other teams, 
> I will update on this thread with better information along the way.   

Thanks in advance,
Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Operators for Frisbee Go Simulation

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Goncalo,

>  accuracy p
> komi  0.5  0.2
> 7.5   31%  22%
> 3.5   43%  36%
> 1.5   48%  45%
> 1.0   49%  47%
> 0.5   51%  49%
> 0.0   52%  51%

Interesting.

Concerning your bot in "normal" 9x9-Go:
Which win rates do you get there for different komi values?

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Operators for Frisbee Go Simulation

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Goncalo,


> I also had another restriction in my program that I forgot to mention:
> 6. Both players must be using the same probability p.

this will be the case in Leiden.


> In testing I've also noted that a komi of 7.0 or 7.5 is no longer
> reasonable in Frisbee Go...

Tell us more. 
In particular "correct" komi might depend on the parameter p.
And a question to all who intend to participate:
 Should we have integral komi or dot-5-style?

Or should we let the bots do komi bidding in the tournament?


Cheers,
Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Operators for Frisbee Go Simulation

[Ingo Althöfer]

> ... This is a very minimal reduction in code complexity.
> Instead of the move generator having to consider all legal plays plus
> their neighbours,
> this rule allows it just to consider the former. Routines for adding
> the set of neighbours
> to a point set are already quite common in Go engines.
> 
> I think adoption benefits more from having a clean ruleset.


I think, John's proposal is the better one here:
allowing also throws on occupied cells. 

For the Leiden tournament with manual operation it will also
be not a problem, because a participating bot who has the "free cell 
restriction"
does not get known which cell was the target of the opponent's last move.
It only gets the realized cell.
(Of course, extrem optimizers might like to get both informations for their
bot: both the intended cell and the realized one of the opponent's move.
But in Leiden we should live with the simplified message: only the realized
cell.)

By the way: Do you, John, intend to participate in the Frisbee
Go simulation in Leiden?

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Lee Sedol's reviews on AlphaGo games

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Aja,
 
>> ... i think many people really waiting for any news/plans for AlphaGo. 
>> Unfortunately, nothing has been given :-(
>
> Hi Paweł, we are still discussing and deciding the next steps of AlphaGo. 
> Thank you for the patience.
 
I am one of those who are waiting eagerly for your comments
on the games.

In particular, concerning game 1, Lee Sedol made a comment which
I do not understand:
> The right side white 1 (R10, 102nd move), which is often denoted as AlphaGo’s 
> winning move, proves that the match had become a tough game. It seems that
> AlphaGo plays a bold move like this because she judges that she could not 
> win in a peaceful way. 

Is 102.R10 really so special? I analysed that position with CrazyStone2013
about 30 times (independent runs). In 20+ % of the runs, CS2013 also wants
to play R12 (giving White 60+% chances of winning). But also in the other
cases, where mostly R14 or P17 are proposed, the expected winning chances
for White are given by about 60 %.

I would indeed like to know which % AlphaGo gave White in this position.

Kind regards,
Ingo.
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