[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of today's KGS computer Go tournament,
with 12 wins from 12 games!  It will receive a mystery prize donated
by Ingo Althöfer.

The results table is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/132/index.html

Zen also becomes the annual KGS computer Go champion, for its seventh
consecutive year, see http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/annual/index.html

Nick
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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of the KGS slow bot tournament which
ended today!

Zen won all its eight games with AyaMC, the only other player. My very
short report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/S17.2/index.html

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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament, with
seven wins from seven games!

My very short report on the tournament is at
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/131/index.html .
I hope to improve it by adding a cross-table with links to the game
records, once the KGS page
http://www.gokgs.com/tournEntrants.jsp?sort=s=1116 has been updated.

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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of today's KGS bot tournament!

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/129/index.html
As always, I hope you will send me your comments and corections.

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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

I have provided a crosstable for the Open division.

The rules governing the two divisions are explained at
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/rules.html#twodivs

Nick



On 10 August 2016 at 08:06, Xavier Combelle 
wrote:

> thanks a lot, it was more a surprise than anything else. What are the
> difference of rules between open and close division ?
>
> 2016-08-09 9:23 GMT+02:00 Nick Wedd :
>
>> I could create a cross-table for the Open division. If there are enough
>> players in future Open divisions, I will. But, with only two players, and
>> almost all games decided by one of the players running out of time or by
>> the other failing to appear at all, I didn't bother.
>>
>> Maybe I'll do it anyway. It won't be difficult. But at present, all the
>> game results are shown in what looks like Czech, and my crosstable-building
>> script won't understand them.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> On 8 August 2016 at 23:48, Xavier Combelle 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Is it volunteer that there is no cross table for open division ? If I
>>> understand well there is only two bot on it.
>>>
>>> 2016-08-08 13:59 GMT+02:00 Nick Wedd :
>>>
 Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of yesterdays's KGS bot tournament!

 My report, at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/125/index.html , is
 longer than usual. I hope you will email me with your comments and
 corrections.

 Nick
 --
 Nick Wedd  mapr...@gmail.com

 ___
 Computer-go mailing list
 Computer-go@computer-go.org
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>>>
>>>
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Xavier Combelle]

thanks a lot, it was more a surprise than anything else. What are the
difference of rules between open and close division ?

2016-08-09 9:23 GMT+02:00 Nick Wedd :

> I could create a cross-table for the Open division. If there are enough
> players in future Open divisions, I will. But, with only two players, and
> almost all games decided by one of the players running out of time or by
> the other failing to appear at all, I didn't bother.
>
> Maybe I'll do it anyway. It won't be difficult. But at present, all the
> game results are shown in what looks like Czech, and my crosstable-building
> script won't understand them.
>
> Nick
>
> On 8 August 2016 at 23:48, Xavier Combelle 
> wrote:
>
>> Is it volunteer that there is no cross table for open division ? If I
>> understand well there is only two bot on it.
>>
>> 2016-08-08 13:59 GMT+02:00 Nick Wedd :
>>
>>> Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of yesterdays's KGS bot tournament!
>>>
>>> My report, at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/125/index.html , is
>>> longer than usual. I hope you will email me with your comments and
>>> corrections.
>>>
>>> Nick
>>> --
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>>>
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>>
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

I could create a cross-table for the Open division. If there are enough
players in future Open divisions, I will. But, with only two players, and
almost all games decided by one of the players running out of time or by
the other failing to appear at all, I didn't bother.

Maybe I'll do it anyway. It won't be difficult. But at present, all the
game results are shown in what looks like Czech, and my crosstable-building
script won't understand them.

Nick

On 8 August 2016 at 23:48, Xavier Combelle 
wrote:

> Is it volunteer that there is no cross table for open division ? If I
> understand well there is only two bot on it.
>
> 2016-08-08 13:59 GMT+02:00 Nick Wedd :
>
>> Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of yesterdays's KGS bot tournament!
>>
>> My report, at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/125/index.html , is
>> longer than usual. I hope you will email me with your comments and
>> corrections.
>>
>> Nick
>> --
>> Nick Wedd  mapr...@gmail.com
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Xavier Combelle]

Is it volunteer that there is no cross table for open division ? If I
understand well there is only two bot on it.

2016-08-08 13:59 GMT+02:00 Nick Wedd :

> Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of yesterdays's KGS bot tournament!
>
> My report, at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/125/index.html , is
> longer than usual. I hope you will email me with your comments and
> corrections.
>
> Nick
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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of yesterdays's KGS bot tournament!

My report, at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/125/index.html , is longer
than usual. I hope you will email me with your comments and corrections.

Nick
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

There were problems caused by my mis-typing entities: omitting the "&", and
typing "freac" instead of "frac". I fixed those manually.

I have now run the page through https://validator.w3.org/, and taken its
advice as far as I can. Initially it reported 26 errors and 6 warnings. At
peak, this was up to 134 errors. I eventually reduced it to 9 reported
errors, which I cannot remove without causing rendering errors.  The
process was instructive, but has reinforced my view "if it ain't broke,
don't fix it".

Nick

On 17 July 2016 at 19:08, Gian-Carlo Pascutto  wrote:

> On 17/07/2016 17:03, Xavier Combelle wrote:
> > It seems that on my firefox 47.0.1 some html entities are rendered for
> > example komi 7  but with the 9times;9 tournament still running,
>
> Renders correctly here and also with a clean Firefox profile, so the
> problem is likely either your addons/extensions or your settings.
>
> That said, the HTML of that page has a fair number of errors: the meta
> tag looks corrupted, there's no encoding information, ampersands in
> links aren't properly escaped, there's a few stray  and the Annual
> points table also has stray closing table tags. So it's also not that
> surprising that it can get misrendered.
>
> Nick, maybe it's worthwhile to run your template through an HTML validator.
>
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Gian-Carlo Pascutto]

On 17/07/2016 17:03, Xavier Combelle wrote:
> It seems that on my firefox 47.0.1 some html entities are rendered for
> example komi 7  but with the 9times;9 tournament still running,

Renders correctly here and also with a clean Firefox profile, so the
problem is likely either your addons/extensions or your settings.

That said, the HTML of that page has a fair number of errors: the meta
tag looks corrupted, there's no encoding information, ampersands in
links aren't properly escaped, there's a few stray  and the Annual
points table also has stray closing table tags. So it's also not that
surprising that it can get misrendered.

Nick, maybe it's worthwhile to run your template through an HTML validator.

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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hello everybody,

thanks to Nick for organozing the tournaments and for
providung the reports. Thanks to the top scorers Zen
and Aya for participation and for showing their strong
Go.

Thanks also to ManyFaces and Leela for participating!
Eight years ago both were the surprise winners in the
Computer Olympiad (2008, Beijing). The favorite for Gold
had been MoGo, but like a phoenix from the ashes ManyFaces
rose and took Gold both on 19x19 and 9x9. And Leela gave
MoGo a hard fight, catching Bronze in one discipline and
Silver in the other (do not remember exactly, in which one).

That tournament in Beijing triggered my reentry in the computer 
Go scene. A few months before (in May 2008) a free Leela version 
had been distributed. I tried it on 9x9 and played a single test 
game: My impression was: very weird style, including weak play 
in the final phase of the game. Although I lost by half a point, 
my impression was: I am way stronger than this bot.  
What a wrong impression...

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Thank you, David, I have corrected the page.

Nick

On 16 July 2016 at 19:20, David Fotland <fotl...@smart-games.com> wrote:

> Correction on ManyFaces hardware. Running on a 4-core i7-4790 3.6 GHz,
> without a GPU, using a deep neural net (that I trained on KGS games).
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> *From:* Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Nick Wedd
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 16, 2016 8:21 AM
> *To:* computer-go@computer-go.org
> *Subject:* [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
>
>
>
> Congratulations to Zen19X, undefeated winner of last Sunday's KGS bot
> tournament!
>
>
>
> My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/124/index.html. It is
> late because I have been on holiday with only a laptop for the last week.
> I hope you will all tell me of any comments or corrections.
>
>
>
> I apologise for my error in setting up the Open division with 9x9 boards,
> which meant that no games could be played in that division.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[David Fotland]

Correction on ManyFaces hardware. Running on a 4-core i7-4790 3.6 GHz, without 
a GPU, using a deep neural net (that I trained on KGS games).

 

David

 

From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of 
Nick Wedd
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2016 8:21 AM
To: computer-go@computer-go.org
Subject: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

 

Congratulations to Zen19X, undefeated winner of last Sunday's KGS bot 
tournament!

 

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/124/index.html. It is late 
because I have been on holiday with only a laptop for the last week.  I hope 
you will all tell me of any comments or corrections.

 

I apologise for my error in setting up the Open division with 9x9 boards, which 
meant that no games could be played in that division. 


 

Nick

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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19X, undefeated winner of last Sunday's KGS bot
tournament!

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/124/index.html. It is
late because I have been on holiday with only a laptop for the last week.
I hope you will all tell me of any comments or corrections.

I apologise for my error in setting up the Open division with 9x9 boards,
which meant that no games could be played in that division.

Nick
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Urban Hafner]

Hey Nick,

thanks for organising this tournament each month! It’s always a lot of fun.

Cheers,

Urban

On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 6:50 PM, Nick Wedd  wrote:

> Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of today's KGS 9x9 bot tournament with
> 20 wins from 20 games!
>
> My report (which says nothing about the games) is at
> http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/123/index.html
> As usual, I will value your comments and corrections.
>
> Nick
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Nick,

thanks for organizing the tournament, and also for quick delivery
of your report.

It seems that at the moment Zen is out of reach for all other bots
(except AlphaGo) - not only those in the tournament. Zen's newest 
KGS-account Zen19A (starting on June 19, 2016) is playing on 8-dan level:
http://www.gokgs.com/gameArchives.jsp?user=zen19a
Congratulations to the Zen team for this achievement!

Ingo.
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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of today's KGS 9x9 bot tournament with 20
wins from 20 games!

My report (which says nothing about the games) is at
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/123/index.html
As usual, I will value your comments and corrections.

Nick

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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Gian-Carlo Pascutto]

On 10-05-16 16:20, Detlef Schmicker wrote:
> OK, this thread is quite long, and I am not sure I saw all posts
> :)
> 
> My suggestion, rate the bots on CGOS before the tournament and
> take this rating for McMahon or for handicaps.

This doesn't work for the reason stated in the exact post you're
replying to:

>> I think that between us, would could reach agreement on what 
>> rankings to use for seeding.  But no-one has the power to input 
>> seeds anyway.

What Nick means is that the software which runs the (McMahon or Swiss)
tournaments on KGS is automated and only takes KGS ranks as input for
seeding.

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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Detlef Schmicker]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

OK, this thread is quite long, and I am not sure I saw all posts :)

My suggestion, rate the bots on CGOS before the tournament and take
this rating for McMahon or for handicaps. I think we can thrust the
bot authors to take the correct rating and report it during tournament
registration.

This would even calibrate the CGOS rating to KGS as a side effect.

Detlef

Am 10.05.2016 um 16:11 schrieb Nick Wedd:
> You understand correctly.
> 
> I think that between us, would could reach agreement on what
> rankings to use for seeding.  But no-one has the power to input
> seeds anyway.
> 
> On 10 May 2016 at 14:09, Gian-Carlo Pascutto 
> wrote:
> 
>> On 10-05-16 00:14, Erik van der Werf wrote:
>>> Oh that's silly! IIRC if your bot is not ranked than users can
>>> do all kind of cheating in the scoring phase (e.g., mark all
>>> your living stones dead).
>> 
>> I've not observed this behavior so far. Perhaps because in an
>> unranked game there's no rating to lose anyway.
>> 
>> I suspect that for estimating a good enough rating to seed a
>> tournament it would work fine. But I understand from Nick's post
>> that it doesn't matter because he can't "input" the ratings into
>> the McMahon pairing software.
>> 
>> -- GCP ___ 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

You understand correctly.

I think that between us, would could reach agreement on what rankings to
use for seeding.  But no-one has the power to input seeds anyway.

On 10 May 2016 at 14:09, Gian-Carlo Pascutto  wrote:

> On 10-05-16 00:14, Erik van der Werf wrote:
> > Oh that's silly! IIRC if your bot is not ranked than users can do all
> > kind of cheating in the scoring phase (e.g., mark all your living stones
> > dead).
>
> I've not observed this behavior so far. Perhaps because in an unranked
> game there's no rating to lose anyway.
>
> I suspect that for estimating a good enough rating to seed a tournament
> it would work fine. But I understand from Nick's post that it doesn't
> matter because he can't "input" the ratings into the McMahon pairing
> software.
>
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Gian-Carlo Pascutto]

On 10-05-16 00:14, Erik van der Werf wrote:
> Oh that's silly! IIRC if your bot is not ranked than users can do all
> kind of cheating in the scoring phase (e.g., mark all your living stones
> dead).

I've not observed this behavior so far. Perhaps because in an unranked
game there's no rating to lose anyway.

I suspect that for estimating a good enough rating to seed a tournament
it would work fine. But I understand from Nick's post that it doesn't
matter because he can't "input" the ratings into the McMahon pairing
software.

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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Urban Hafner]

Yes, I would be OK with requiring rated bots if it were easy to get new
accounts the “rated bot status”. I could have the account Imrscl031 for
version 0.3.1 and so on and just abandon the old accounts as you say. But
the fact that it takes so long to get a rated account makes this a bit
cumbersome.

Urban

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Nick Wedd  wrote:

>
>
> On 10 May 2016 at 07:57, Urban Hafner  wrote:
>
>> My impression was that you can only get the status of a ranked bot if
>> it’s somehow “stable”. So that would mean that I would have to have a new
>> account for each new version of the bot, wouldn’t it? Especially with early
>> stage bots like mine the jumps in strength can be quite large. But on the
>> other hand, it would be nice to have an idea how strong it is on KGS. :)
>>
>
> You are right.
>
> It ought to be possible to tell the KGS authorities "this is an
> experimental bot account. I would like it to be rated. I promise not to
> rebuild the bot, if I ever make changes I will abandon the account."  But,
> as we are seeing, the process of getting Rated bot status can be slow, and
> I am reluctant to overload it.
>
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

More apologies.  That should be "Zen19X".

Nick

On 10 May 2016 at 08:26, Nick Wedd  wrote:

> Thanks to those who have pointed out various errors in my reported. I have
> now corrected it.
>
> I apologise for mis-spelling "Zen10X" in the first line of the message at
> the top of this thread.
>
> Nick
>
>
> On 9 May 2016 at 14:33, Nick Wedd  wrote:
>
>> Congratulations to Xen19X, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament, with
>> 12 wins from 12 games!
>>
>> My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/122/index.html
>> As always, I will welcome your comments and corrections.
>>
>> Nick
>> --
>> Nick Wedd  mapr...@gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
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>



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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

On 10 May 2016 at 07:57, Urban Hafner  wrote:

> My impression was that you can only get the status of a ranked bot if it’s
> somehow “stable”. So that would mean that I would have to have a new
> account for each new version of the bot, wouldn’t it? Especially with early
> stage bots like mine the jumps in strength can be quite large. But on the
> other hand, it would be nice to have an idea how strong it is on KGS. :)
>

You are right.

It ought to be possible to tell the KGS authorities "this is an
experimental bot account. I would like it to be rated. I promise not to
rebuild the bot, if I ever make changes I will abandon the account."  But,
as we are seeing, the process of getting Rated bot status can be slow, and
I am reluctant to overload it.

Nick
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Thanks to those who have pointed out various errors in my reported. I have
now corrected it.

I apologise for mis-spelling "Zen10X" in the first line of the message at
the top of this thread.

Nick


On 9 May 2016 at 14:33, Nick Wedd  wrote:

> Congratulations to Xen19X, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament, with
> 12 wins from 12 games!
>
> My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/122/index.html
> As always, I will welcome your comments and corrections.
>
> Nick
> --
> Nick Wedd  mapr...@gmail.com
>



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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Urban Hafner]

My impression was that you can only get the status of a ranked bot if it’s
somehow “stable”. So that would mean that I would have to have a new
account for each new version of the bot, wouldn’t it? Especially with early
stage bots like mine the jumps in strength can be quite large. But on the
other hand, it would be nice to have an idea how strong it is on KGS. :)

Urban

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 8:38 AM, Nick Wedd  wrote:

> We are waiting for the superadmin to set LeelaBot's status to Rated.  She
> has not been active recently, maybe she is on vacation.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> On 9 May 2016 at 23:14, Erik van der Werf 
> wrote:
>
>> Oh that's silly! IIRC if your bot is not ranked than users can do all
>> kind of cheating in the scoring phase (e.g., mark all your living stones
>> dead).
>>
>> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 12:07 AM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/05/2016 0:01, Erik van der Werf wrote:
>>> > Well then why not make that a criterion for entering the tournament?
>>> For
>>> > any half-decent bot it shouldn't be hard to get a rating.
>>>
>>> FWIW I requested ranked status for LeelaBot 3 weeks ago and this was not
>>> granted.
>>>
>>> Technically I'm not sure if this is needed as the rating can just be
>>> calculated from the unranked games. I've been tempted to write a script
>>> to do exactly this.
>>>
>>> --
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>>
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

We are waiting for the superadmin to set LeelaBot's status to Rated.  She
has not been active recently, maybe she is on vacation.

Nick



On 9 May 2016 at 23:14, Erik van der Werf  wrote:

> Oh that's silly! IIRC if your bot is not ranked than users can do all kind
> of cheating in the scoring phase (e.g., mark all your living stones dead).
>
> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 12:07 AM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto 
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/05/2016 0:01, Erik van der Werf wrote:
>> > Well then why not make that a criterion for entering the tournament? For
>> > any half-decent bot it shouldn't be hard to get a rating.
>>
>> FWIW I requested ranked status for LeelaBot 3 weeks ago and this was not
>> granted.
>>
>> Technically I'm not sure if this is needed as the rating can just be
>> calculated from the unranked games. I've been tempted to write a script
>> to do exactly this.
>>
>> --
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Erik van der Werf]

Oh that's silly! IIRC if your bot is not ranked than users can do all kind
of cheating in the scoring phase (e.g., mark all your living stones dead).

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 12:07 AM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto  wrote:

> On 10/05/2016 0:01, Erik van der Werf wrote:
> > Well then why not make that a criterion for entering the tournament? For
> > any half-decent bot it shouldn't be hard to get a rating.
>
> FWIW I requested ranked status for LeelaBot 3 weeks ago and this was not
> granted.
>
> Technically I'm not sure if this is needed as the rating can just be
> calculated from the unranked games. I've been tempted to write a script
> to do exactly this.
>
> --
> GCP
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Gian-Carlo Pascutto]

On 10/05/2016 0:01, Erik van der Werf wrote:
> Well then why not make that a criterion for entering the tournament? For
> any half-decent bot it shouldn't be hard to get a rating.

FWIW I requested ranked status for LeelaBot 3 weeks ago and this was not
granted.

Technically I'm not sure if this is needed as the rating can just be
calculated from the unranked games. I've been tempted to write a script
to do exactly this.

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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Erik van der Werf]

Well then why not make that a criterion for entering the tournament? For
any half-decent bot it shouldn't be hard to get a rating.

Any idea what happens for unrated bots? Do they end up somewhere at the
bottom, or are they rejected?

Erik

On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 11:40 PM, Nick Wedd  wrote:

> A problem with McMahon is that the bots would all need KGS ratings.  I
> can't assign ratings myself, the scheduler uses the ratings assigned by
> KGS.  In the five tournaments held so far this year, there are sixteen bots
> that have competed at least once: eight have been rated, eight not.
>
> Nick
>
> On 9 May 2016 at 22:16, Erik van der Werf 
> wrote:
>
>> Why not McMahon? (possibly with reduced handicap).  It works fine in
>> human Go tournaments.
>>
>> IMO KGS Swiss is pretty boring for most of the time, and the scheduler
>> often seems to have a lot of undesired influence on the final ranking. Also
>> at this point I'm really not that interested any more to see some top
>> engine win yet another bot tournament without serious competition; I'd be
>> more interested to see how many stones they could give to the rest.
>> Wouldn't it be fun to see how many stones AlphaGo could give to CS?
>>
>> E.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 10:29 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Gian-Carlo,
>>>
>>> I have thought carefully about your question on
>>> determinning handicaps properly.
>>> It seems you are very right with your doubts
>>>
>>> > The first obvious question is then: how will you determine the
>>> handicaps?
>>>
>>> A naive approach would be to take the KGS ranks of the bots.
>>> But even for those who really have this may be a problem. Namely,
>>> the program may use other/stronger hardware in the tournament,
>>> or may have made a jump in performance without playing openly
>>> on KGS.
>>>
>>> > As to the "large gaps in strength": the actual rating of Zen is
>>> > 1 stone above abakus, which is 1 stone above HiraBot. That seems
>>> > to conflict with your classification.
>>>
>>> Yes, but only according to KGS ranks. My impression yesterday was
>>> that Zen has made another jump in performance and is now more
>>> an 8-dan than a 7-dan. But this is indeed only a personal opinion
>>> and can not be taken for "serious" handicapping.
>>>
>>> Concerning abakus and Hirabot, it is indeed my opinion that they
>>> are at most 1 stone apart of each other.
>>>
>>> In total: my handicap idea seems not to be practicable.
>>>
>>> Ingo.
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>>
>>
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Gian-Carlo Pascutto]

On 9/05/2016 23:16, Erik van der Werf wrote:
> Why not McMahon? (possibly with reduced handicap).  It works fine in
> human Go tournaments.

http://senseis.xmp.net/?McMahon

How does this work? That page doesn't mention handicaps. Indeed, the
idea seems to be to eliminate large strength disparities in the early
rounds of Swiss.

> IMO KGS Swiss is pretty boring for most of the time, and the scheduler
> often seems to have a lot of undesired influence on the final ranking.
> Also at this point I'm really not that interested any more to see some
> top engine win yet another bot tournament without serious competition;
> I'd be more interested to see how many stones they could give to the
> rest. Wouldn't it be fun to see how many stones AlphaGo could give to CS?

I'm not sure if this is a comment on the tournament format or wishful
thinking about the number and level of the tournament participants :-)

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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

A problem with McMahon is that the bots would all need KGS ratings.  I
can't assign ratings myself, the scheduler uses the ratings assigned by
KGS.  In the five tournaments held so far this year, there are sixteen bots
that have competed at least once: eight have been rated, eight not.

Nick

On 9 May 2016 at 22:16, Erik van der Werf  wrote:

> Why not McMahon? (possibly with reduced handicap).  It works fine in human
> Go tournaments.
>
> IMO KGS Swiss is pretty boring for most of the time, and the scheduler
> often seems to have a lot of undesired influence on the final ranking. Also
> at this point I'm really not that interested any more to see some top
> engine win yet another bot tournament without serious competition; I'd be
> more interested to see how many stones they could give to the rest.
> Wouldn't it be fun to see how many stones AlphaGo could give to CS?
>
> E.
>
>
> On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 10:29 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Gian-Carlo,
>>
>> I have thought carefully about your question on
>> determinning handicaps properly.
>> It seems you are very right with your doubts
>>
>> > The first obvious question is then: how will you determine the
>> handicaps?
>>
>> A naive approach would be to take the KGS ranks of the bots.
>> But even for those who really have this may be a problem. Namely,
>> the program may use other/stronger hardware in the tournament,
>> or may have made a jump in performance without playing openly
>> on KGS.
>>
>> > As to the "large gaps in strength": the actual rating of Zen is
>> > 1 stone above abakus, which is 1 stone above HiraBot. That seems
>> > to conflict with your classification.
>>
>> Yes, but only according to KGS ranks. My impression yesterday was
>> that Zen has made another jump in performance and is now more
>> an 8-dan than a 7-dan. But this is indeed only a personal opinion
>> and can not be taken for "serious" handicapping.
>>
>> Concerning abakus and Hirabot, it is indeed my opinion that they
>> are at most 1 stone apart of each other.
>>
>> In total: my handicap idea seems not to be practicable.
>>
>> Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Petr Baudis]

  Another matter is that, in case of MCTS programs, encouraging them
to play well in handicap games was a troublesome point.  This cuts both
ways (may discourage participation, or encourage implementation of
better handling of handicap games).

  A possible strategy would be:

  - Require ranked programs (with at least 30 rated games played in last
30 days using the tournament version)

  - Use McMahon scheduling

  - Use handicaps reduced by 2, topped at 4 stones.  (More liberally,
topped at 6 stones.)

  - Apply these rules only every other month to test it out; this should
be out of phase with the other variations?

  This might be a lot more fun to watch. :)  Handicap reduction is
important to still give the stronger programs a good edge.

On Mon, May 09, 2016 at 11:16:58PM +0200, Erik van der Werf wrote:
> Why not McMahon? (possibly with reduced handicap).  It works fine in human
> Go tournaments.
> 
> IMO KGS Swiss is pretty boring for most of the time, and the scheduler
> often seems to have a lot of undesired influence on the final ranking. Also
> at this point I'm really not that interested any more to see some top
> engine win yet another bot tournament without serious competition; I'd be
> more interested to see how many stones they could give to the rest.
> Wouldn't it be fun to see how many stones AlphaGo could give to CS?
> 
> E.
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 10:29 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>
> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Gian-Carlo,
> >
> > I have thought carefully about your question on
> > determinning handicaps properly.
> > It seems you are very right with your doubts
> >
> > > The first obvious question is then: how will you determine the handicaps?
> >
> > A naive approach would be to take the KGS ranks of the bots.
> > But even for those who really have this may be a problem. Namely,
> > the program may use other/stronger hardware in the tournament,
> > or may have made a jump in performance without playing openly
> > on KGS.
> >
> > > As to the "large gaps in strength": the actual rating of Zen is
> > > 1 stone above abakus, which is 1 stone above HiraBot. That seems
> > > to conflict with your classification.
> >
> > Yes, but only according to KGS ranks. My impression yesterday was
> > that Zen has made another jump in performance and is now more
> > an 8-dan than a 7-dan. But this is indeed only a personal opinion
> > and can not be taken for "serious" handicapping.
> >
> > Concerning abakus and Hirabot, it is indeed my opinion that they
> > are at most 1 stone apart of each other.
> >
> > In total: my handicap idea seems not to be practicable.
> >
> > Ingo.
> > ___
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Erik van der Werf]

Why not McMahon? (possibly with reduced handicap).  It works fine in human
Go tournaments.

IMO KGS Swiss is pretty boring for most of the time, and the scheduler
often seems to have a lot of undesired influence on the final ranking. Also
at this point I'm really not that interested any more to see some top
engine win yet another bot tournament without serious competition; I'd be
more interested to see how many stones they could give to the rest.
Wouldn't it be fun to see how many stones AlphaGo could give to CS?

E.


On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 10:29 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>
wrote:

> Hi Gian-Carlo,
>
> I have thought carefully about your question on
> determinning handicaps properly.
> It seems you are very right with your doubts
>
> > The first obvious question is then: how will you determine the handicaps?
>
> A naive approach would be to take the KGS ranks of the bots.
> But even for those who really have this may be a problem. Namely,
> the program may use other/stronger hardware in the tournament,
> or may have made a jump in performance without playing openly
> on KGS.
>
> > As to the "large gaps in strength": the actual rating of Zen is
> > 1 stone above abakus, which is 1 stone above HiraBot. That seems
> > to conflict with your classification.
>
> Yes, but only according to KGS ranks. My impression yesterday was
> that Zen has made another jump in performance and is now more
> an 8-dan than a 7-dan. But this is indeed only a personal opinion
> and can not be taken for "serious" handicapping.
>
> Concerning abakus and Hirabot, it is indeed my opinion that they
> are at most 1 stone apart of each other.
>
> In total: my handicap idea seems not to be practicable.
>
> Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Gian-Carlo,

I have thought carefully about your question on
determinning handicaps properly.
It seems you are very right with your doubts

> The first obvious question is then: how will you determine the handicaps?

A naive approach would be to take the KGS ranks of the bots.
But even for those who really have this may be a problem. Namely,
the program may use other/stronger hardware in the tournament,
or may have made a jump in performance without playing openly 
on KGS. 
 
> As to the "large gaps in strength": the actual rating of Zen is 
> 1 stone above abakus, which is 1 stone above HiraBot. That seems 
> to conflict with your classification.

Yes, but only according to KGS ranks. My impression yesterday was
that Zen has made another jump in performance and is now more
an 8-dan than a 7-dan. But this is indeed only a personal opinion
and can not be taken for "serious" handicapping.

Concerning abakus and Hirabot, it is indeed my opinion that they
are at most 1 stone apart of each other.

In total: my handicap idea seems not to be practicable.

Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Jason House]

I'm not sure what options are available for tournament setup, but assuming
we can enter skill levels manually...

I think it would be hard to pick perfect ratings, but I bet it wouldn't be
too difficult to generate a guess at ELO/kyu levels based on past
performance. Inputting something like ELO/2 (or similar fractional ELO)
might be a good way to start out without giving too much handicap. Future
tournaments could then be based on how well that works out.
On May 9, 2016 1:18 PM, "Gian-Carlo Pascutto"  wrote:

On 09-05-16 16:04, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:
> Another point for discussion:
> Although there were only six participants they split in
> at least 4 classes, seperated by large gaps in strength:
> Zen >> abakus, HiraBot >> LeelaBot >> Imrsel, matilda
> Perhaps it makes really sense to think about a tournament
> with handicaps.

The first obvious question is then: how will you determine the handicaps?

As to the "large gaps in strength": the actual rating of Zen is 1 stone
above abakus, which is 1 stone above HiraBot. That seems to conflict
with your classification. I am not sure it's possible to draw these
conclusions by observing <= 3 games from every matchup.

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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Jason House]

On May 9, 2016 10:38 AM, "Urban Hafner"  wrote:
>
>Also, you give me too much credit. I’m not the primary author of HouseBot,
that is Jason House. I was merely a co-author/contributor.
>
> Urban

I didn't even notice that in the report! I'm not too worried about credit
for my weak bot :)
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Gian-Carlo Pascutto]

On 09-05-16 16:04, "Ingo Althöfer" wrote:
> Another point for discussion:
> Although there were only six participants they split in
> at least 4 classes, seperated by large gaps in strength:
> Zen >> abakus, HiraBot >> LeelaBot >> Imrsel, matilda
> Perhaps it makes really sense to think about a tournament
> with handicaps.  

The first obvious question is then: how will you determine the handicaps?

As to the "large gaps in strength": the actual rating of Zen is 1 stone
above abakus, which is 1 stone above HiraBot. That seems to conflict
with your classification. I am not sure it's possible to draw these
conclusions by observing <= 3 games from every matchup.

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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Urban Hafner]

Thanks for organising this Nick!

Even though Iomrascálaí came second to last it was very useful as I could
figure out how to make it play on KGS. :) And like Ingo already said, it
played against abakus in the second round. Also, you give me too much
credit. I’m not the primary author of HouseBot, that is Jason House. I was
merely a co-author/contributor.

Urban

On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 4:04 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>
wrote:

> Hi Nick,
>
> thanks for organizing the tournament and also for the
> report. I found one small inconsistency:
> You write that Imrsel had connection problems in
> round 2 against matilda. But in round 2, imrsel had
> been paired with abakus, according to the table.
>
> 
> Another point for discussion:
> Although there were only six participants they split in
> at least 4 classes, seperated by large gaps in strength:
> Zen >> abakus, HiraBot >> LeelaBot >> Imrsel, matilda
> Perhaps it makes really sense to think about a tournament
> with handicaps.
>
> Ingo.
>
> PS. Nice to see Leela back after such a long break.
>
>
>
>
> Gesendet: Montag, 09. Mai 2016 um 15:33 Uhr
> Von: "Nick Wedd" <mapr...@gmail.com>
> An: computer-go@computer-go.org
> Betreff: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!
>
> Congratulations to Xen19X, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament, with
> 12 wins from 12 games!
>
> My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/122/index.html
> As always, I will welcome your comments and corrections.
>
> Nick--
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Nick,

thanks for organizing the tournament and also for the 
report. I found one small inconsistency:
You write that Imrsel had connection problems in
round 2 against matilda. But in round 2, imrsel had
been paired with abakus, according to the table.
 

Another point for discussion:
Although there were only six participants they split in
at least 4 classes, seperated by large gaps in strength:
Zen >> abakus, HiraBot >> LeelaBot >> Imrsel, matilda
Perhaps it makes really sense to think about a tournament
with handicaps.  
 
Ingo.

PS. Nice to see Leela back after such a long break.




Gesendet: Montag, 09. Mai 2016 um 15:33 Uhr
Von: "Nick Wedd" <mapr...@gmail.com>
An: computer-go@computer-go.org
Betreff: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

Congratulations to Xen19X, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament, with 12 
wins from 12 games!
 
My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/122/index.html
As always, I will welcome your comments and corrections.
 
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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Xen19X, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament, with
12 wins from 12 games!

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/122/index.html
As always, I will welcome your comments and corrections.

Nick
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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of the April 13x13 KGS bot tournament
with nine wins from ten games!

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/121/index.html
As usual I will welcome your comments.  But I am much too weak a player to
have anything useful to say about the games.

Nick
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[David Ongaro]

Hi Nick

> On 07 Apr 2016, at 12:47, Nick Wedd  wrote:
> 
> (What I meant was that some of the people posting to the list that you gave a 
> link to have failed to understand it.)

Yes that's why I gave you a direct link to my comment. But the confusion is 
probably my fault, because I failed to mention that you have to press the 
spoiler button to see the solution (When I see a button I press it, so I didn't 
think about it. In that regard I'm no different to my 14 Month old son…)

To be more specific I think a correction could look like this:

 x . x x . x 9 6 .
 . x o o x 8 5 4 7
 x o o x x 1 o 3 x
 x o x x . 2 x x o
 . o x o x x o o o
 o o o o x o o . o
 o x o x . x o o .
 . x o x x x o o .
 x . x . x x o . o


In round 6 AyaMC played the move above against Fuego9. SGF. This looks hopeless 
for White because his left group has only two liberties. But when black played 
4 he suffers a damezumari himself and he gets only a Seki and therefore losing 
the game.

 x 7 x x 5 x 1 2 6
 9 x o o x a 8 4 3
 x o o x x o o o x
 x o x x . x x x o
 b o x o x x o o o
 o o o o x o o . o
 o x o x . x o o .
 . x o x x x o o .
 x . x . x x o . o

The correct but difficult to find move for black would have been 1 which makes 
miai of 2 and 3 creating another damezumari, this time for white, since he can 
not approach at a before black plays b.

Now that we already spend so much time on an old game it would be interesting 
to know if the current programs can get this right?

Thanks,

David



> On 7 April 2016 at 20:15, David Ongaro  wrote:
> Thanks, but what do you mean by that cheesy comment "Human players can find 
> this hard to understand"? If you want to make a meaningful comment you could 
> say that Fuego didn't understand the situation by playing h8 instead of g9.
> 
> 
> > On 07 Apr 2016, at 11:31, Nick Wedd  wrote:
> >
> > Hi David,
> >
> > Thank you for telling me about this.  I have added a link to the article.
> >
> > Best,
> > Nick
> >
> >
> > On 4 April 2016 at 16:53, David Ongaro  wrote:
> > Sorry for being late to the "game" (but you never specified a deadline till 
> > when you accept corrections). From: 
> > http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/41/index.html
> >
> > > Also in round 6, AyaMC played the move shown to the left, against Fuego9. 
> > > SGF. When I saw this move, I thought "this is hopeless for White, his 
> > > left group only has two liberties". But Black can never quite put the 
> > > two-liberty group in atari, and the marked move ensures that he never 
> > > will be able to. What is particularly impressive is that White knows 
> > > this, and has been working towards it for several moves, ignoring a ko 
> > > threat at a9 and sacrificing stones at b1 and d1.
> >
> >
> > I showed already 2008 in a german Go forum that your intuition was right 
> > and the position was indeed hopeless for white: 
> > http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?topic=3314.msg153307#msg153307
> >
> >
> > > On 04 Apr 2016, at 06:33, Nick Wedd  wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank you for noticing this. I will correct it when I am back at home and 
> > > can use a real computer.
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > > On Apr 4, 2016 2:09 PM, "Seo Sanghyeon"  wrote:
> > > 2016-03-31 0:17 GMT+09:00 Nick Wedd :
> > > > My report is at  http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/S16.1/index.html
> > > > As usual, I look forward to hearing your comments and criticisms; 
> > > > though I
> > > > may not respond for a while, I am about to leave for a week's holiday.
> > >
> > > "In round 6, after 87 moves, Zen19S and JulieBot reached the position 
> > > shown
> > > to the right (JulieBot is Black)."
> > >
> > > It seems that Zen19S should be ManyFaces1 instead.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Seo Sanghyeon
> > > ___
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Ok, I have deleted the cheesy comment.  (What I meant was that some of the
people posting to the list that you gave a link to have failed to
understand it.)

On 7 April 2016 at 20:15, David Ongaro  wrote:

> Thanks, but what do you mean by that cheesy comment "Human players can
> find this hard to understand"? If you want to make a meaningful comment you
> could say that Fuego didn't understand the situation by playing h8 instead
> of g9.
>
>
> > On 07 Apr 2016, at 11:31, Nick Wedd  wrote:
> >
> > Hi David,
> >
> > Thank you for telling me about this.  I have added a link to the article.
> >
> > Best,
> > Nick
> >
> >
> > On 4 April 2016 at 16:53, David Ongaro  wrote:
> > Sorry for being late to the "game" (but you never specified a deadline
> till when you accept corrections). From:
> http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/41/index.html
> >
> > > Also in round 6, AyaMC played the move shown to the left, against
> Fuego9. SGF. When I saw this move, I thought "this is hopeless for White,
> his left group only has two liberties". But Black can never quite put the
> two-liberty group in atari, and the marked move ensures that he never will
> be able to. What is particularly impressive is that White knows this, and
> has been working towards it for several moves, ignoring a ko threat at a9
> and sacrificing stones at b1 and d1.
> >
> >
> > I showed already 2008 in a german Go forum that your intuition was right
> and the position was indeed hopeless for white:
> http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?topic=3314.msg153307#msg153307
> >
> >
> > > On 04 Apr 2016, at 06:33, Nick Wedd  wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank you for noticing this. I will correct it when I am back at home
> and can use a real computer.
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > > On Apr 4, 2016 2:09 PM, "Seo Sanghyeon"  wrote:
> > > 2016-03-31 0:17 GMT+09:00 Nick Wedd :
> > > > My report is at  http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/S16.1/index.html
> > > > As usual, I look forward to hearing your comments and criticisms;
> though I
> > > > may not respond for a while, I am about to leave for a week's
> holiday.
> > >
> > > "In round 6, after 87 moves, Zen19S and JulieBot reached the position
> shown
> > > to the right (JulieBot is Black)."
> > >
> > > It seems that Zen19S should be ManyFaces1 instead.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Seo Sanghyeon
> > > ___
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[David Ongaro]

Thanks, but what do you mean by that cheesy comment "Human players can find 
this hard to understand"? If you want to make a meaningful comment you could 
say that Fuego didn't understand the situation by playing h8 instead of g9.


> On 07 Apr 2016, at 11:31, Nick Wedd  wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> Thank you for telling me about this.  I have added a link to the article.
> 
> Best,
> Nick
> 
> 
> On 4 April 2016 at 16:53, David Ongaro  wrote:
> Sorry for being late to the "game" (but you never specified a deadline till 
> when you accept corrections). From: 
> http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/41/index.html
> 
> > Also in round 6, AyaMC played the move shown to the left, against Fuego9. 
> > SGF. When I saw this move, I thought "this is hopeless for White, his left 
> > group only has two liberties". But Black can never quite put the 
> > two-liberty group in atari, and the marked move ensures that he never will 
> > be able to. What is particularly impressive is that White knows this, and 
> > has been working towards it for several moves, ignoring a ko threat at a9 
> > and sacrificing stones at b1 and d1.
> 
> 
> I showed already 2008 in a german Go forum that your intuition was right and 
> the position was indeed hopeless for white: 
> http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?topic=3314.msg153307#msg153307
> 
> 
> > On 04 Apr 2016, at 06:33, Nick Wedd  wrote:
> >
> > Thank you for noticing this. I will correct it when I am back at home and 
> > can use a real computer.
> >
> > Nick
> >
> > On Apr 4, 2016 2:09 PM, "Seo Sanghyeon"  wrote:
> > 2016-03-31 0:17 GMT+09:00 Nick Wedd :
> > > My report is at  http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/S16.1/index.html
> > > As usual, I look forward to hearing your comments and criticisms; though I
> > > may not respond for a while, I am about to leave for a week's holiday.
> >
> > "In round 6, after 87 moves, Zen19S and JulieBot reached the position shown
> > to the right (JulieBot is Black)."
> >
> > It seems that Zen19S should be ManyFaces1 instead.
> >
> > --
> > Seo Sanghyeon
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Hi David,

Thank you for telling me about this.  I have added a link to the article.

Best,
Nick


On 4 April 2016 at 16:53, David Ongaro  wrote:

> Sorry for being late to the "game" (but you never specified a deadline
> till when you accept corrections). From:
> http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/41/index.html
>
> > Also in round 6, AyaMC played the move shown to the left, against
> Fuego9. SGF. When I saw this move, I thought "this is hopeless for White,
> his left group only has two liberties". But Black can never quite put the
> two-liberty group in atari, and the marked move ensures that he never will
> be able to. What is particularly impressive is that White knows this, and
> has been working towards it for several moves, ignoring a ko threat at a9
> and sacrificing stones at b1 and d1.
>
>
> I showed already 2008 in a german Go forum that your intuition was right
> and the position was indeed hopeless for white:
> http://www.dgob.de/yabbse/index.php?topic=3314.msg153307#msg153307
>
>
> > On 04 Apr 2016, at 06:33, Nick Wedd  wrote:
> >
> > Thank you for noticing this. I will correct it when I am back at home
> and can use a real computer.
> >
> > Nick
> >
> > On Apr 4, 2016 2:09 PM, "Seo Sanghyeon"  wrote:
> > 2016-03-31 0:17 GMT+09:00 Nick Wedd :
> > > My report is at  http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/S16.1/index.html
> > > As usual, I look forward to hearing your comments and criticisms;
> though I
> > > may not respond for a while, I am about to leave for a week's holiday.
> >
> > "In round 6, after 87 moves, Zen19S and JulieBot reached the position
> shown
> > to the right (JulieBot is Black)."
> >
> > It seems that Zen19S should be ManyFaces1 instead.
> >
> > --
> > Seo Sanghyeon
> > ___
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Thank you for noticing this. I will correct it when I am back at home and
can use a real computer.

Nick
On Apr 4, 2016 2:09 PM, "Seo Sanghyeon"  wrote:

> 2016-03-31 0:17 GMT+09:00 Nick Wedd :
> > My report is at  http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/S16.1/index.html
> > As usual, I look forward to hearing your comments and criticisms; though
> I
> > may not respond for a while, I am about to leave for a week's holiday.
>
> "In round 6, after 87 moves, Zen19S and JulieBot reached the position shown
> to the right (JulieBot is Black)."
>
> It seems that Zen19S should be ManyFaces1 instead.
>
> --
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Seo Sanghyeon]

2016-03-31 0:17 GMT+09:00 Nick Wedd :
> My report is at  http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/S16.1/index.html
> As usual, I look forward to hearing your comments and criticisms; though I
> may not respond for a while, I am about to leave for a week's holiday.

"In round 6, after 87 moves, Zen19S and JulieBot reached the position shown
to the right (JulieBot is Black)."

It seems that Zen19S should be ManyFaces1 instead.

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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19X, undefeated winner of the Spring Slow KGS bot
tournament!

My report is at  http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/S16.1/index.html
As usual, I look forward to hearing your comments and criticisms; though I
may not respond for a while, I am about to leave for a week's holiday.

Nick

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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Robert Jasiek]

Aja, sorry to bother you with trivialities, but how does Alphago avoid 
power or network failures and such incidents?


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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Indeed. And the name is similar to 'WeakBot50k', a deliberately weak
program. The 'WeakBot' account is used by HiraBot.

Nick.
On Feb 22, 2016 1:29 PM, "Aja Huang"  wrote:

> WeakBot's author might want to rename the program? It's not weak at all. :)
>
> Aja
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Nick Wedd  wrote:
>
>> Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of the February KGS tournament!
>>
>> My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/120/index.html
>>  .
>> As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections.
>>
>> Nick
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[John Tromp]

dear Aja,

> AlphaGo is getting stronger and stronger. I hope you all will enjoy watching
> the games.

Could you tell us if Alpha Go is able to come up with that most famous of moves:

http://senseis.xmp.net/?EarReddeningMove

Or is it so strong that it found an even better move:-?

regards,
-John

PS: looks like the games are played in the middle of the night for us
on the US east coast:-(
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Jim O'Flaherty]

Aja,

My anticipation couldn't be any higher, I don't think! I wish you and your
AlphaGo team the best of luck!


Namaste,

Jim

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Aja Huang  wrote:

> Hi Ingo,
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 3:49 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>
> wrote:
>>
>> By the way: is progress fine with respect to your March event?
>>
>
> We are still preparing hard for the match.
>
> Apologies I didn't answer many questions regarding AlphaGo and
> particularly value network, but I will have time to carefully read and
> answer those questions after the Lee Sedol match.
>
> AlphaGo is getting stronger and stronger. I hope you all will enjoy
> watching the games.
>
> Cheers,
> Aja
>
>
>>
>> Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Ingo Althöfer]

Hi Aja,

> WeakBot's author might want to rename the program? It's not weak at all. :)
 
thanks for that comment. It is exactly what I was tempted to post.
A simple change would be to
WakeBot (simple shuffling the letters).



By the way: is progress fine with respect to your March event?

Cheers, Ingo.
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Yes, my mistake. I have now corrected it to "Black has still won".  Thank
you for pointing it out.

Nick

On 22 February 2016 at 12:21, Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira  wrote:

> In round 26 gnugo vs matilda is this right
>
> "They then disagreed about the status of the black stones at the bottom
> of the board (they are dead, but even if they live somehow, White has
> still won)."
>
> By my count black has 48 and white 33+7. This caught my eye because
> matilda has a pretty good resigning game.
>
> Gonçalo
>
> On 22/02/2016 12:10, Nick Wedd wrote:
> > Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of the February KGS tournament!
> >
> > My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/120/index.html
> >  .
> > As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections.
> >
> > Nick
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Rémi Coulom]

Better link:
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/120/index.html

(your link sends to the January tournament)

On 02/22/2016 01:10 PM, Nick Wedd wrote:

Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of the February KGS tournament!

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/120/index.html 
 .

As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections.

Nick
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira]

In round 26 gnugo vs matilda is this right

"They then disagreed about the status of the black stones at the bottom
of the board (they are dead, but even if they live somehow, White has
still won)."

By my count black has 48 and white 33+7. This caught my eye because
matilda has a pretty good resigning game.

Gonçalo

On 22/02/2016 12:10, Nick Wedd wrote:
> Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of the February KGS tournament!
> 
> My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/120/index.html
>  .
> As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections.
> 
> Nick
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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of the February KGS tournament!

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/120/index.html
 .
As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections.

Nick
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Detlef Schmicker]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Thanks,

would be great if we could get the hardware info on darkforest :)

(it is in the tournament rules as I understood, so Facebook should
release...)

Thanks Detlef

Am 10.01.2016 um 16:18 schrieb Nick Wedd:
> Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of the January KGS tournament!
> 
> It was closely-contested, with a group of strong players at the
> top. These included a newcomer to these events, darkfmcts3
> (Darkforest from the Facebook AI Project), which would probably
> have won with better time-keeping.
> 
> My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/119/index.html As
> usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections.
> 
> Nick
> 
> 
> 
> ___ Computer-go mailing
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> 
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Hideki Kato]

Dear Nick,

I was surprised this very quick report, thanks.

The Annual Championship is not 2015 but 2016 (and the page is not 
updated yet).

Best regards,
Hideki

Nick Wedd: 
: 
>Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of the January KGS tournament!
>
>It was closely-contested, with a group of strong players at the top. These
>included a newcomer to these events, darkfmcts3 (Darkforest from the
>Facebook AI Project), which would probably have won with better
>time-keeping.
>
>My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/119/index.html
>As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections.
>
>Nick
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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of the January KGS tournament!

It was closely-contested, with a group of strong players at the top. These
included a newcomer to these events, darkfmcts3 (Darkforest from the
Facebook AI Project), which would probably have won with better
time-keeping.

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/119/index.html
As usual, I will welcome your comments and corrections.

Nick
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Xavier Combelle]

the link is wrong but the label is correct it is indeed
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/115/index.html
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/114/index.html

2015-08-10 19:29 GMT+02:00 Nick Wedd mapr...@gmail.com:

 Congratulations to Zen19X,  winner of yesterday's 13x13 KGS bot
 tournament, with 17 wins from 18 games!

 My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/115/index.html
 http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/114/index.html
 As usual I welcome your comments and corrections.

 Nick
 --
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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19X,  winner of yesterday's 13x13 KGS bot tournament,
with 17 wins from 18 games!

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/115/index.html
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/114/index.html
As usual I welcome your comments and corrections.

Nick
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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19X, undefeated winner of yesterday's 19x19 KGS bot
tournament!

My (very short) report is at
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/114/index.html
As usual I welcome your comments and corrections.

Nick

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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of yesterday's 9x9 36-round KGS bot
tournament!

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/113/index.html
As usual I look forward to receiving your comments and corrections.

Nick
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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19X, winner of yesterday's 19x19 KGS bot
tournament, with 12 wins from 12 games!

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/112/index.html
As usual, I welcome your comments and corrections.

Nick
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Detlef Schmicker]

What driver is loaded before suspend?

My guess: your distro does not reload the corresponing kernel module 
after suspend...


On Ubuntu the driver does not seem to be loaded as module, therefore I 
can not check...


if you know what module, check lsmod to see if it is loaded

after suspend I would modprobe the module and hope it works?!

Am 17.02.2015 um 08:46 schrieb Rémi Coulom:

Thanks Nick,

It was fun to participate again.

After the tournament, I noticed that my CPU was about 3x slower than 
usual. It turns out it is because of a bug in my Linux distro (Mint 
17). After suspend, the CPU becomes slow.


I have not yet found a proper way to fix this. Maybe someone on this 
list can help?


cpufreq-info returns this:
cpufrequtils 008: cpufreq-info (C) Dominik Brodowski 2004-2009
Report errors and bugs to cpuf...@vger.kernel.org, please.
analyzing CPU 0:
  no or unknown cpufreq driver is active on this CPU
  maximum transition latency: 4294.55 ms.

So none of the cpufreq-related workarounds I found on the web works.

This is a bug report of the same problem:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1102318
But I can't get indicator-cpufreq to work, maybe for similar reasons: 
whenever I drag the icon to the panel, nothing happens.


This also suggests indicator-cpufreq:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1377382

I'd be grateful for any help.

Thanks,

Rémi

On 02/17/2015 12:01 AM, Nick Wedd wrote:

Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament!

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/110/index.html
As usual, I hope you will send me your comments and corrections.

Nick
--
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Rémi Coulom]

I have the no or unknown cpufreq driver is active on this CPU both 
before and after suspend. It is no big deal anyway: rather than waste 
hours on this, I guess I'd rather not suspend anymore.


Thanks,

Rémi

On 02/17/2015 09:45 AM, Detlef Schmicker wrote:

What driver is loaded before suspend?

My guess: your distro does not reload the corresponing kernel module 
after suspend...


On Ubuntu the driver does not seem to be loaded as module, therefore I 
can not check...


if you know what module, check lsmod to see if it is loaded

after suspend I would modprobe the module and hope it works?!

Am 17.02.2015 um 08:46 schrieb Rémi Coulom:

Thanks Nick,

It was fun to participate again.

After the tournament, I noticed that my CPU was about 3x slower than 
usual. It turns out it is because of a bug in my Linux distro (Mint 
17). After suspend, the CPU becomes slow.


I have not yet found a proper way to fix this. Maybe someone on this 
list can help?


cpufreq-info returns this:
cpufrequtils 008: cpufreq-info (C) Dominik Brodowski 2004-2009
Report errors and bugs to cpuf...@vger.kernel.org, please.
analyzing CPU 0:
  no or unknown cpufreq driver is active on this CPU
  maximum transition latency: 4294.55 ms.

So none of the cpufreq-related workarounds I found on the web works.

This is a bug report of the same problem:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1102318
But I can't get indicator-cpufreq to work, maybe for similar reasons: 
whenever I drag the icon to the panel, nothing happens.


This also suggests indicator-cpufreq:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1377382

I'd be grateful for any help.

Thanks,

Rémi

On 02/17/2015 12:01 AM, Nick Wedd wrote:

Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament!

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/110/index.html
As usual, I hope you will send me your comments and corrections.

Nick
--
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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament!

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/110/index.html
As usual, I hope you will send me your comments and corrections.

Nick
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Rémi Coulom]

Thanks Nick,

It was fun to participate again.

After the tournament, I noticed that my CPU was about 3x slower than 
usual. It turns out it is because of a bug in my Linux distro (Mint 17). 
After suspend, the CPU becomes slow.


I have not yet found a proper way to fix this. Maybe someone on this 
list can help?


cpufreq-info returns this:
cpufrequtils 008: cpufreq-info (C) Dominik Brodowski 2004-2009
Report errors and bugs to cpuf...@vger.kernel.org, please.
analyzing CPU 0:
  no or unknown cpufreq driver is active on this CPU
  maximum transition latency: 4294.55 ms.

So none of the cpufreq-related workarounds I found on the web works.

This is a bug report of the same problem:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1102318
But I can't get indicator-cpufreq to work, maybe for similar reasons: 
whenever I drag the icon to the panel, nothing happens.


This also suggests indicator-cpufreq:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1377382

I'd be grateful for any help.

Thanks,

Rémi

On 02/17/2015 12:01 AM, Nick Wedd wrote:

Congratulations to Zen19S, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament!

My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/110/index.html
As usual, I hope you will send me your comments and corrections.

Nick
--
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Jean-loup Gailly]

Got it :-). Thanks.
Le 12 janv. 2015 14:59, Nick Wedd mapr...@gmail.com a écrit :

 Congratulations to Zen19S, undefeated winner of yesterday's 19x19 KGS
 bot tournament!

 My report is http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/109/index.html
 As usual, I hope you will report any errors or comments to me.

 Nick

 P.S. I am now using gmail as my mail client, and it refuses to show me
 any email which I wrote (like this one).  So I hope that at least one
 person
 will respond to this, and let me know that it has reached the mailing list.
 N

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[Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19S, undefeated winner of yesterday's 19x19 KGS
bot tournament!

My report is http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/109/index.html
As usual, I hope you will report any errors or comments to me.

Nick

P.S. I am now using gmail as my mail client, and it refuses to show me
any email which I wrote (like this one).  So I hope that at least one
person
will respond to this, and let me know that it has reached the mailing list.
N

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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Jim O'Flaherty]

Nick,

I just had the same problem. Gmail is being over helpful by grouping all
emails with the exact same title as a thread. So, goto your Sent folder.
Look for the email with the Subject you just used. Notice there is a number
in parenthesis to the right indicating the number of emails in the
thread. Select that email. Scroll to the bottom. And if it is not already
 expanded, select the final email in the thread, and you should see the
one you sent.

I sure wish there was more options in Gmail around this behavior.

Jim O'Flaherty
 On Jan 12, 2015 7:59 AM, Nick Wedd mapr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Congratulations to Zen19S, undefeated winner of yesterday's 19x19 KGS
 bot tournament!

 My report is http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/109/index.html
 As usual, I hope you will report any errors or comments to me.

 Nick

 P.S. I am now using gmail as my mail client, and it refuses to show me
 any email which I wrote (like this one).  So I hope that at least one
 person
 will respond to this, and let me know that it has reached the mailing list.
 N

 --
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Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Jim,

Thank you!  That is very useful.  I have found a load of test messages, all
threaded together under the title test.  Serve me right, I guess.

Nick

On 12 January 2015 at 15:47, Jim O'Flaherty jim.oflaherty...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Nick,

 I just had the same problem. Gmail is being over helpful by grouping all
 emails with the exact same title as a thread. So, goto your Sent folder.
 Look for the email with the Subject you just used. Notice there is a number
 in parenthesis to the right indicating the number of emails in the
 thread. Select that email. Scroll to the bottom. And if it is not already
  expanded, select the final email in the thread, and you should see the
 one you sent.

 I sure wish there was more options in Gmail around this behavior.

 Jim O'Flaherty
  On Jan 12, 2015 7:59 AM, Nick Wedd mapr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Congratulations to Zen19S, undefeated winner of yesterday's 19x19 KGS
 bot tournament!

 My report is http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/109/index.html
 As usual, I hope you will report any errors or comments to me.

 Nick

 P.S. I am now using gmail as my mail client, and it refuses to show me
 any email which I wrote (like this one).  So I hope that at least one
 person
 will respond to this, and let me know that it has reached the mailing
 list.
 N

 --
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Re: [computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

In message xbcjtzyzxiclf...@maproom.demon.co.uk, Nick Wedd 
n...@maproom.co.uk writes
Congratulations to Zen19, undefeated winner of yesterday's 10-round KGS 
bot tournament!


My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/56/index.html and as 
usual, I will appreciate your pointing out my mistakes.


My thanks to all those who have already pointed out errors.  These have 
now been corrected.


Nick
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[computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen19, undefeated winner of yesterday's 10-round KGS 
bot tournament!


My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/56/index.html and as 
usual, I will appreciate your pointing out my mistakes.


Three bots suffered from unexpected disconnects during the tournament, 
which may have been caused by kgsGtp: stv in round 1, valkyria19 in 
round 2, and pachi2 in round 4.  LeelaBot is now unable to connect at 
all (as reported in a very recent posting here).  Is it likely that 
these things are connected?  Should I report it all to wms?


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Re: [computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Petr Baudis]

On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 10:12:41PM +, Nick Wedd wrote:
 Congratulations to Zen19, undefeated winner of yesterday's 10-round
 KGS bot tournament!
 
 My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/56/index.html and
 as usual, I will appreciate your pointing out my mistakes.

Thank you for the report!

Jean-loup Gailly was not running pachi2 with any custom patches, but it
does include his contributions that were integrated upstream -
timesettings support and basic memory management support, in short.

In the Puego-AyaMC game, of course Puego's winning probability dropped,
not pachi2's. :-)

Puego was latest SVN (r1096) version running with four threads on i7
920.

-- 
Petr Pasky Baudis
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in
your nerd card. -- Dunbal (464142)
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Re: [computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Hiroshi Yamashita]

Hi,

Thank you for reporting.

PueGo - AyaMC figure misses Black A14.

pachi2's probability of winning dropped from 0.92 to 0.07 and it resigned. 


Aya's probability upped from 0.03 to 0.96.
I set resign percent 0.02 on this tournament, usually 0.15.
Never resign mode may get a bit good result.

Hiroshi Yamashita


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Re: [computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Hiroshi Yamashita]

oh, sorry, Erik already pointed out.

Another, past result page, January winner is Fuego, not Zen9.
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/

Hiroshi Yamashita

- Original Message - 
From: Hiroshi Yamashita y...@bd.mbn.or.jp

To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!



Hi,

Thank you for reporting.

PueGo - AyaMC figure misses Black A14.

pachi2's probability of winning dropped from 0.92 to 0.07 and it resigned. 


Aya's probability upped from 0.03 to 0.96.
I set resign percent 0.02 on this tournament, usually 0.15.
Never resign mode may get a bit good result.

Hiroshi Yamashita


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Re: [computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Magnus Persson]

Quoting Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk:


In message 20090622202905.utvbb8wkgk8cw...@webmail.phmp.se, Magnus
Persson magnus.pers...@phmp.se writes
I looked at the report and would like to give my opinion on why the  
 programs played as they did in the commented game between Zen and   
Aya.


In the game white 106 threatens to capture the left side and most   
importantly avoid the dangers of a huge semeai. If black does not   
play 111 the game is over without a fight. After white 112 at least  
 black has a chance that white blunders and get a seki or wins a   
semeai in the center.


Saving the white group with 112 is only big if the black group dies.


But it must die - unless the white central group dies.  And the white
central group can get out with n13, can't it?


It can get out, but it is not that easy to read out. And this  
uncertainty is what strong players (and MC programs) try to avoid.



Anyway, assuming you are right, may I quote you in my report?


Sure. Maybe that maight provoke some even stronger player to give an  
even better analysis.


Later on in the game white takes the ko at J11 for move 134 and   
after a ko threat black captures the right side group but white get  
 the big left side for sure and a large endgame move at the bottom,  
 for a clear won position, which illustrates the one sided nature  
of  this game after move 105.


By the way the main meaning of 105 is to threaten the center white   
group since if black tries to surround the white group white can   
connect and live with all white stones with 105.


So in my opinion both programs played well moves 106-112. White   
simply played forcing moves that defended a won position and black   
tried to keep the game complex enough in order to have a   
possibility of winning.


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[computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

Congratulations to Zen, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament with 8 
wins from 9 games.  My (very short) report is now at

http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/48/index.html

Nick
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Re: [computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Magnus Persson]

I looked at the report and would like to give my opinion on why the  
programs played as they did in the commented game between Zen and Aya.


In the game white 106 threatens to capture the left side and most  
importantly avoid the dangers of a huge semeai. If black does not play  
111 the game is over without a fight. After white 112 at least black  
has a chance that white blunders and get a seki or wins a semeai in  
the center.


Saving the white group with 112 is only big if the black group dies.

Later on in the game white takes the ko at J11 for move 134 and after  
a ko threat black captures the right side group but white get the big  
left side for sure and a large endgame move at the bottom, for a clear  
won position, which illustrates the one sided nature of this game  
after move 105.


By the way the main meaning of 105 is to threaten the center white  
group since if black tries to surround the white group white can  
connect and live with all white stones with 105.


So in my opinion both programs played well moves 106-112. White simply  
played forcing moves that defended a won position and black tried to  
keep the game complex enough in order to have a possibility of winning.


Best
Magnus


Quoting Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk:


Congratulations to Zen, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament with 8
wins from 9 games.  My (very short) report is now at
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/48/index.html

Nick
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Magnus Persson
Berlin, Germany
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Re: [computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

[Nick Wedd]

In message 20090622202905.utvbb8wkgk8cw...@webmail.phmp.se, Magnus 
Persson magnus.pers...@phmp.se writes
I looked at the report and would like to give my opinion on why the 
programs played as they did in the commented game between Zen and Aya.


In the game white 106 threatens to capture the left side and most 
importantly avoid the dangers of a huge semeai. If black does not play 
111 the game is over without a fight. After white 112 at least black 
has a chance that white blunders and get a seki or wins a semeai in the 
center.


Saving the white group with 112 is only big if the black group dies.


But it must die - unless the white central group dies.  And the white 
central group can get out with n13, can't it?


Anyway, assuming you are right, may I quote you in my report?

Nick

Later on in the game white takes the ko at J11 for move 134 and after a 
ko threat black captures the right side group but white get the big 
left side for sure and a large endgame move at the bottom, for a clear 
won position, which illustrates the one sided nature of this game after 
move 105.


By the way the main meaning of 105 is to threaten the center white 
group since if black tries to surround the white group white can 
connect and live with all white stones with 105.


So in my opinion both programs played well moves 106-112. White simply 
played forcing moves that defended a won position and black tried to 
keep the game complex enough in order to have a possibility of winning.


Best
Magnus


Quoting Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk:


Congratulations to Zen, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament with 8
wins from 9 games.  My (very short) report is now at
http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/48/index.html

Nick
--  Nick Weddn...@maproom.co.uk
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Nick Weddn...@maproom.co.uk
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