Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
Claudio [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Claudio wrote on Sat, Oct 12, 2002 at 06:04:14PM +0200 : quota DOES NOT work on ext3 filesystem at the moment. I reported this problem since 9.0 beta 1... If you want to use quote, you MUST use XFS! That is incorrect. It does work on ext3 and has worked since beta 1. The problem is that it doesn't work quite the way you think it does. A regular user cannot view his own quota usage. This is due to a shift in kernel theory, the shift being to move policy out of the kernel and into userland. The kernel only supports enforcement of that policy and not manipulation of that policy. To be exact, even root cannot see the right quota for a user on ext3 filesystem. The files aquota.* are never up-to-date if root does not run quotacheck. The only thing that really suggest you are out of quota is the message disk quota exceeded while you're working. In my opinion, it means that quota does NOT work on ext3. ;-) I think you are wrong, on my previous test doing a sync update the quota files. -- Warly
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
So sprach David Walluck am 2002-10-13 um 14:22:06 -0400 : Beware of using XFS on your root partition. I have done this, and Mandrake tools do not properly load the XFS module so that you can access your root partition if you build your own kernel. Is it really a problem of using XFS for /? Or is it just that the kernel might not be loadable, which can easily be circumvented by creating a tiny (50 megs) ext2 /boot partition? Alexander Skwar -- How to quote: http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english) Homepage: http://www.iso-top.biz |Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] iso-top.biz - Die günstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen Uptime: 12 hours 1 minute
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
Alexander Skwar wrote: So sprach David Walluck am 2002-10-13 um 14:22:06 -0400 : Beware of using XFS on your root partition. I have done this, and Mandrake tools do not properly load the XFS module so that you can access your root partition if you build your own kernel. Is it really a problem of using XFS for /? Or is it just that the kernel might not be loadable, which can easily be circumvented by creating a tiny (50 megs) ext2 /boot partition? Alexander Skwar I don't know how I could reparition the drive as it mostly has no free space. Why would the kernel not be loadable? A stock mandrake kernel always works fine, but I would prefer to be able to build my own. -- Sincerely, David Walluck [EMAIL PROTECTED] msg79889/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
On Tuesday 15 October 2002 23:01, Todd Lyons wrote: Claudio wrote on Sat, Oct 12, 2002 at 06:04:14PM +0200 : quota DOES NOT work on ext3 filesystem at the moment. I reported this problem since 9.0 beta 1... If you want to use quote, you MUST use XFS! That is incorrect. It does work on ext3 and has worked since beta 1. The problem is that it doesn't work quite the way you think it does. A regular user cannot view his own quota usage. This is due to a shift in kernel theory, the shift being to move policy out of the kernel and into userland. The kernel only supports enforcement of that policy and not manipulation of that policy. Quota is not supported for Reiserfs though. A few versions back it was supported, but that was a patch added by Mandrake which is no longer being applied. Blue skies... Todd I'd really like to see a Mandrake official recomendation for the default file system. I have seen the .kde/*rc files corruption but was not aware that it was directly attributable to Reiser. If this is indeed the case I will be converting back to ext2/3. I do however find Reiser quite fast in general use, especially when deleting directories with large numbers of files. -- John Allen, Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
Claudio wrote on Sat, Oct 12, 2002 at 06:04:14PM +0200 : quota DOES NOT work on ext3 filesystem at the moment. I reported this problem since 9.0 beta 1... If you want to use quote, you MUST use XFS! That is incorrect. It does work on ext3 and has worked since beta 1. The problem is that it doesn't work quite the way you think it does. A regular user cannot view his own quota usage. This is due to a shift in kernel theory, the shift being to move policy out of the kernel and into userland. The kernel only supports enforcement of that policy and not manipulation of that policy. To be exact, even root cannot see the right quota for a user on ext3 filesystem. The files aquota.* are never up-to-date if root does not run quotacheck. The only thing that really suggest you are out of quota is the message disk quota exceeded while you're working. In my opinion, it means that quota does NOT work on ext3. ;-) Claudio
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Claudio wrote: To be exact, even root cannot see the right quota for a user on ext3 filesystem. The files aquota.* are never up-to-date if root does not run quotacheck. The only thing that really suggest you are out of quota is the message disk quota exceeded while you're working. In my opinion, it means that quota does NOT work on ext3. ;-) From the Quota HowTo: Quotacheck is used to scan a file system for disk usages, and updates the quota record file aquota.user to the most recent state. I recommend running quotacheck at system bootup, and via cronjob periodically (say, every week?). -- snip --- To me this implies that things are working as designed. Whether or not that is your desired behavior is another question, but in testing it I didn't set out to redesign the quota system, simply to verify that it was working. Stew Benedict -- MandrakeSoft PPC FAQ: http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/ppcFAQ.php3 IRC: irc.openproject.net #cooker-ppc
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
Jose Antonio Becerra Permuy wrote on Sun, Oct 13, 2002 at 09:00:19PM +0200 : El Dom 13 Oct 2002 20:22, David Walluck escribi?: Beware of using XFS on your root partition. I have done this, and Mandrake tools do not properly load the XFS module so that you can access your root partition if you build your own kernel. I have been using XFS in the root partition with 8.2 (and now with 9.0) without problems. May be your initrd file has not the necessary modules? Agreed, I too have put XFS as the root partition and the mandrake install-kernel script puts the correct modules into the initrd so that the root fs can be mounted, no matter what its fstype. Blue skies... Todd -- Todd Lyons -- MandrakeSoft, Inc. http://www.mandrakesoft.com/ UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things. -- Doug Gwyn Cooker Version mandrake-release-9.1-0.1mdk Kernel 2.4.19-16mdk msg79103/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
Claudio wrote on Sat, Oct 12, 2002 at 06:04:14PM +0200 : quota DOES NOT work on ext3 filesystem at the moment. I reported this problem since 9.0 beta 1... If you want to use quote, you MUST use XFS! That is incorrect. It does work on ext3 and has worked since beta 1. The problem is that it doesn't work quite the way you think it does. A regular user cannot view his own quota usage. This is due to a shift in kernel theory, the shift being to move policy out of the kernel and into userland. The kernel only supports enforcement of that policy and not manipulation of that policy. Quota is not supported for Reiserfs though. A few versions back it was supported, but that was a patch added by Mandrake which is no longer being applied. Blue skies... Todd -- | MandrakeSoft USA | Sometimes you get what you want. | | http://www.mandrakesoft.com | Sometimes you get experience.| | http://www.mandrakelinux.com |--unknown origin | Cooker Version mandrake-release-9.1-0.1mdk Kernel 2.4.19-16mdk msg79105/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
Todd Lyons wrote: Jose Antonio Becerra Permuy wrote on Sun, Oct 13, 2002 at 09:00:19PM +0200 : El Dom 13 Oct 2002 20:22, David Walluck escribi?: Beware of using XFS on your root partition. I have done this, and Mandrake tools do not properly load the XFS module so that you can access your root partition if you build your own kernel. I have been using XFS in the root partition with 8.2 (and now with 9.0) without problems. May be your initrd file has not the necessary modules? Agreed, I too have put XFS as the root partition and the mandrake install-kernel script puts the correct modules into the initrd so that the root fs can be mounted, no matter what its fstype. Blue skies... Todd Sometimes they are in the initrd, sometimes not, but the mount still fails. I have reported this on the list before, I don't know what other details I can offer that would be of help. One of two things happens: 1.) The installkernel script complains that it can't find the xfs modules and exits, even though what it should really do is try to build the initrd anyway. 2.) The initrd is built with the correct xfs modules, and the initrd is correctly added to lilo.conf (although, sometimes not, and I have to add by hand). 3.) Upon boot, mounting the root FS still fails. There seems to be several bugs in the installkernel script, but I'm still surprised that I have been able to fix this problem manually. -- Sincerely, David Walluck [EMAIL PROTECTED] msg79111/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
On 13 Oct 2002, Bjarne Thomsen wrote: Big? 800kb in compressed form. For a patch, that looks horribly big to me. And look at the code, it is not simply an addon module. It puts all sorts of things in the kernel. Unstable?? Look here: Well, I had some fs corruption with XFS when pluggin the power. I do not care if big lab X claims it works perfectly. But if you really want to know why it is not in stock kernel, do not ask here, but on kernel-devel. Danny
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
Big? 800kb in compressed form. Unstable?? Look here: At the D0 experiment at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory we have a ~150 node cluster of desktop machines all using the SGI-patched kernel. Every large disk (40Gb) or disk array in the cluster uses XFS including 4x640Gb disk servers and several 60-120Gb disks/arrays. Originally we chose reiserfs as our journalling filesystem, however, this was a disaster. We need to export these disks via NFS and this seemed perpetually broken in 2.4 series kernels. We switched to XFS and have been very happy. The only inconvenience is that it is not included in the standard kernel. The SGI guys are very prompt in their support of new kernels, but it is still an extra step which should not be necessary. -- Bjarne On Sun, 2002-10-13 at 10:54, Danny Tholen wrote: On Sunday 13 October 2002 10:16, Bjarne Thomsen wrote: Why is XFS the only journaling FS that is not included in the main 2.4 tree, considering that Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo, Slackware, and JB Linux all have support for XFS? Because, simply, XFS is a horrible big complex patch that possibly breaks many things. And stock kernel should be as stable as possible. Danny
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
Bjarne Thomsen wrote: Big? 800kb in compressed form. Unstable?? Look here: At the D0 experiment at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory we have a ~150 node cluster of desktop machines all using the SGI-patched kernel. Every large disk (40Gb) or disk array in the cluster uses XFS including 4x640Gb disk servers and several 60-120Gb disks/arrays. Originally we chose reiserfs as our journalling filesystem, however, this was a disaster. We need to export these disks via NFS and this seemed perpetually broken in 2.4 series kernels. We switched to XFS and have been very happy. The only inconvenience is that it is not included in the standard kernel. The SGI guys are very prompt in their support of new kernels, but it is still an extra step which should not be necessary. -- Bjarne XFS will be in the next stable kernel. XFS is considered big because 800K is too big to fit on a boot floppy along with the rest of the kernel. Besides, 800K *is* big compared to most modules. XFS itself is stable, but the XFS patch changes a lot of the kernel's internal structure. This is one reason why Linus did not want to accept it into the kernel until a later version. Beware of using XFS on your root partition. I have done this, and Mandrake tools do not properly load the XFS module so that you can access your root partition if you build your own kernel. I have reported this many times, and as far as I know it has never been looked into. I can't be the only one who has done this In any case, play it safe and use ext2 or ext3 for your root partition. -- Sincerely, David Walluck [EMAIL PROTECTED] msg78861/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
El Dom 13 Oct 2002 20:22, David Walluck escribió: Beware of using XFS on your root partition. I have done this, and Mandrake tools do not properly load the XFS module so that you can access your root partition if you build your own kernel. I have been using XFS in the root partition with 8.2 (and now with 9.0) without problems. May be your initrd file has not the necessary modules? Regards.
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
Why is XFS the only journaling FS that is not included in the main 2.4 tree, considering that Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo, Slackware, and JB Linux all have support for XFS? -- Bjarne On Sat, 2002-10-12 at 19:52, Wes Kurdziolek wrote: XFS will most likely not be integrated into the 2.4 tree. On Sat, 2002-10-12 at 12:35, Bjarne Thomsen wrote: Does anybody know if XFS has been included in 2.4.20-pre or 2.4.20-pre-ac ? Bjarne On Sat, 2002-10-12 at 18:04, Claudio wrote: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Brent Hasty wrote: 3)Quotas might work better in XFS, but I haven't tested that enough ... (ie from a windows box via samba). quota DOES NOT work on ext3 filesystem at the moment. I reported this problem since 9.0 beta 1... If you want to use quote, you MUST use XFS! Claudio
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
For one, the XFS patches are rather non-invasive. Folks have argued on lkml for a long time that Linus doesn't integrate patches that are too invasive when quite the opposite is true -- he'd rather integrate invasive stuff to make patching the kernel up w/ less-invasive patches less difficult. Some very-invasive stuff will never get merged (OpenMOSIX, for instance). Also remember that JFS was't merged until 2.4.19, the very latest stable release of 2.4, and it's considered less stable than XFS. On Sun, 2002-10-13 at 04:16, Bjarne Thomsen wrote: Why is XFS the only journaling FS that is not included in the main 2.4 tree, considering that Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo, Slackware, and JB Linux all have support for XFS? -- Bjarne On Sat, 2002-10-12 at 19:52, Wes Kurdziolek wrote: XFS will most likely not be integrated into the 2.4 tree. On Sat, 2002-10-12 at 12:35, Bjarne Thomsen wrote: Does anybody know if XFS has been included in 2.4.20-pre or 2.4.20-pre-ac ? Bjarne On Sat, 2002-10-12 at 18:04, Claudio wrote: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Brent Hasty wrote: 3)Quotas might work better in XFS, but I haven't tested that enough ... (ie from a windows box via samba). quota DOES NOT work on ext3 filesystem at the moment. I reported this problem since 9.0 beta 1... If you want to use quote, you MUST use XFS! Claudio
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Claudio wrote: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Brent Hasty wrote: 3)Quotas might work better in XFS, but I haven't tested that enough ... (ie from a windows box via samba). quota DOES NOT work on ext3 filesystem at the moment. I reported this problem since 9.0 beta 1... If you want to use quote, you MUST use XFS! And Todd and I did fairly extensive testing and quota does indeed work in ext2/3. The limitation is a user cannot get a report on their current quota usage, but root can. Stew Benedict -- MandrakeSoft PPC FAQ: http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/ppcFAQ.php3 IRC: irc.openproject.net #cooker-ppc
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
On Sunday 13 October 2002 10:16, Bjarne Thomsen wrote: Why is XFS the only journaling FS that is not included in the main 2.4 tree, considering that Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo, Slackware, and JB Linux all have support for XFS? Because, simply, XFS is a horrible big complex patch that possibly breaks many things. And stock kernel should be as stable as possible. Danny
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Danny Tholen wrote: On Sunday 13 October 2002 10:16, Bjarne Thomsen wrote: Why is XFS the only journaling FS that is not included in the main 2.4 tree, considering that Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo, Slackware, and JB Linux all have support for XFS? Because, simply, XFS is a horrible big complex patch that possibly breaks many things. And stock kernel should be as stable as possible. But, it has (IIRC) been merged into 2.5, I think around 2.5.40 Oh, and Redhat doesn't have XFS, and neither does Debian (AFAIK). Buchan -- |Registered Linux User #182071-| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Brent Hasty wrote: so how about ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer? and why? The advantages vs. disadvantages? That's something I would also want to hear opinions on ... Since we got ACL support for ext3, they are mostly similar in features, except: 1)Intermezzo doens't work with XFS yet, but then again I haven't managed to compile intersync ... 2)XFS has xfsdump, which keeps all metadata, including ACLs. But, since amanda can't span tapes, this doesn't really help us, since our tapes are smaller than the partitions we need ... 3)Quotas might work better in XFS, but I haven't tested that enough ... (ie from a windows box via samba). I have seen the odd file corruption in XFS when the power dies, usually the kdmrc gets mangled if yuo have root or /usr on XFS and the power dies, but if you have a UPS (which we do on our servers, but not on my home machine), it shouldn't be a problem. I don't think there is much between them performance-wise. Buchan -- |Registered Linux User #182071-| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
On Saturday 12 October 2002 07:44, Brent Hasty wrote: so how about ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer? and why? I prefer ext3 because current XFS doesn't like preemptive kernel (available on mdk club now). Perhaps XFS from cvs is better. Danny
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Brent Hasty wrote: 3)Quotas might work better in XFS, but I haven't tested that enough ... (ie from a windows box via samba). quota DOES NOT work on ext3 filesystem at the moment. I reported this problem since 9.0 beta 1... If you want to use quote, you MUST use XFS! Claudio
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
Does anybody know if XFS has been included in 2.4.20-pre or 2.4.20-pre-ac ? Bjarne On Sat, 2002-10-12 at 18:04, Claudio wrote: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Brent Hasty wrote: 3)Quotas might work better in XFS, but I haven't tested that enough ... (ie from a windows box via samba). quota DOES NOT work on ext3 filesystem at the moment. I reported this problem since 9.0 beta 1... If you want to use quote, you MUST use XFS! Claudio
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
XFS will most likely not be integrated into the 2.4 tree. On Sat, 2002-10-12 at 12:35, Bjarne Thomsen wrote: Does anybody know if XFS has been included in 2.4.20-pre or 2.4.20-pre-ac ? Bjarne On Sat, 2002-10-12 at 18:04, Claudio wrote: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Brent Hasty wrote: 3)Quotas might work better in XFS, but I haven't tested that enough ... (ie from a windows box via samba). quota DOES NOT work on ext3 filesystem at the moment. I reported this problem since 9.0 beta 1... If you want to use quote, you MUST use XFS! Claudio
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
I thought quotas *did* work, but users couldn't get quota reports, only root. On Sat, 2002-10-12 at 12:04, Claudio wrote: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Brent Hasty wrote: 3)Quotas might work better in XFS, but I haven't tested that enough ... (ie from a windows box via samba). quota DOES NOT work on ext3 filesystem at the moment. I reported this problem since 9.0 beta 1... If you want to use quote, you MUST use XFS! Claudio
Re: [Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Buchan Milne uttered these words of wisdom: On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, Brent Hasty wrote: so how about ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer? and why? The advantages vs. disadvantages? That's something I would also want to hear opinions on ... Since we got ACL support for ext3, they are mostly similar in features, except: 1)Intermezzo doens't work with XFS yet, but then again I haven't managed to compile intersync ... 2)XFS has xfsdump, which keeps all metadata, including ACLs. But, since amanda can't span tapes, this doesn't really help us, since our tapes are smaller than the partitions we need ... 3)Quotas might work better in XFS, but I haven't tested that enough ... (ie from a windows box via samba). I have seen the odd file corruption in XFS when the power dies, usually the kdmrc gets mangled if yuo have root or /usr on XFS and the power dies, but if you have a UPS (which we do on our servers, but not on my home machine), it shouldn't be a problem. I don't think there is much between them performance-wise. Buchan This looks more like a personal message, but since it's on cooker, I'll go ahead and add a comment. I've been using XFS since it became available in Mandrake and I've never been happier! I haven't tried ext3 (which maybe invalidates my opinion), but I know that SGI has been around for years and their product has had the time to mature. In other words, I've not had any problems with it and I have it on all partitions except /boot on all my linux boxes (4 including my laptop). Mike -- Michael Holt Banning, CA(o_ [EMAIL PROTECTED](o_ (o_ //\ www.holt-tech.net(/)_ (/)_ V_/_www.mandrake.com
[Cooker] ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer?
so how about ext3 vs XFS wich would you prefer? and why? The advantages vs. disadvantages?
