RE: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
I spoke with an Ipswitch customer service rep yesterday and he indicated that he was getting nothing but irate calls regarding the product changes. Apparently the word given to the company internally was this change is what our customers are asking for. I'm sure *some* customers have been vocal wanting just such a bundle, while many others were silent and content. If you haven't called yet to register concerns/complaints about the changes, please do so. Since the collaboration product uses Imail as a component, there is nothing irreversible in Ipswitch's current decision. If enough current customers call to let them know that are NOT in the group asking for a bundled product, hopefully Ipswitch management will reconsider their direction and offer a wider range of mail products. Ipswitch's number is (800) 793-4825. -Bill Naber --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
If you haven't called yet to register concerns/complaints about the changes, please do so. Since the collaboration product uses Imail as a component, there is nothing irreversible in Ipswitch's current decision. If enough current customers call to let them know that are NOT in the group asking for a bundled product, hopefully Ipswitch management will reconsider their direction and offer a wider range of mail products. Ipswitch's number is (800) 793-4825. ... and for E-mail besides standard support/sales, there's Roger Greene (president/CEO of Ipswitch; [EMAIL PROTECTED]), William Pollack (COO, [EMAIL PROTECTED]), Patrick Loring (Business Development Manager, [EMAIL PROTECTED]), Jill Jones (Messaging Product Manager, [EMAIL PROTECTED]). -Scott --- Declude JunkMail: The advanced anti-spam solution for IMail mailservers since 2000. Declude Virus: Ultra reliable virus detection and the leader in mailserver vulnerability detection. Find out what you've been missing: Ask for a free 30-day evaluation. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
I don't buy it. If they REALLY just wanted to OFFER a bundle for those who WANTED it - they would have done so. The fact that they are PULLING Imail and offer nothing BUT the bundle shows a different motivation. If you have a steady income stream from a customer base, all you had to do is to make sure that you don't overspend on what you take in - or raise prices for the annual support contracts if supporting the basic Imail is not paid for by the support contracts (which I find hard to believe.) Maintaining Imail and the steady income stream would have taken NO extra development effort, because SMTP, POP and IMAP support will always be the core services. No - this is clearly motivated by money. They decided getting 4 to 10 times the money from half the people is still more profitable. Best Regards Andy Schmidt Phone: +1 201 934-3414 x20 (Business) Fax:+1 201 934-9206 --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
... and for E-mail besides standard support/sales, there's Roger Greene (president/CEO of Ipswitch; [EMAIL PROTECTED]), William Pollack (COO, [EMAIL PROTECTED]), Patrick Loring (Business Development Manager, [EMAIL PROTECTED]), Jill Jones (Messaging Product Manager, [EMAIL PROTECTED]). I just wrote an email to Roger Greene and copy all the other guys.. I don't expect an answer ..but I feel relieved, I at least told them my thoughts. -Luis __ [Email scanned for viruses by Panda Consulting -www.pandacons.com-] [Email escaneado contra virus por Panda Consulting -www.pandacons.com-] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
Has IPSwitch even given a hint as to what the cost of the yearly service agreement will be... I might be willing to suggest that we keep with IPSwitch if the service agreements for the new product are reasonable... and not 2,999.00 every year.. no way we can afford that. Bennie - Original Message - From: Bill Naber [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:21 AM Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? I spoke with an Ipswitch customer service rep yesterday and he indicated that he was getting nothing but irate calls regarding the product changes. Apparently the word given to the company internally was this change is what our customers are asking for. I'm sure *some* customers have been vocal wanting just such a bundle, while many others were silent and content. If you haven't called yet to register concerns/complaints about the changes, please do so. Since the collaboration product uses Imail as a component, there is nothing irreversible in Ipswitch's current decision. If enough current customers call to let them know that are NOT in the group asking for a bundled product, hopefully Ipswitch management will reconsider their direction and offer a wider range of mail products. Ipswitch's number is (800) 793-4825. -Bill Naber --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
My main problem here is... I don't subscribe to the Imail Message Group. I had no idea this was coming. We just upgraded our Imail SA last month. I can't remember what the original cost of the IMail Server with Unlimited was, but I don't believe it was 8,999.00. For a small ISP that is a big chunk of change. And I don't believe many ISP's or Mail Providers would have 250 or less customers. I will be keeping watch here to see what Scott and the guys at Declude decided. Here's for hoping they come up with an option that is affordable to the "small and medium-sized business" Bennie Looks like the sky is still blue, but it just got very cloudy. - Original Message - From: Matt To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 1:29 AM Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? Sandy,I'm not going to debate whether or not the 'sky is blue' with you, but please don't paint by inference that I'm jumping the gun by contemplating a very likely change of platforms within the next year.Scott and the management at Declude might want to continue their silence regarding target platforms, but they need to make it known before I make a conscious choice in order to have a better chance of keeping my business, and I would think that it would be in their best interest to let others know as well because it is clear in the IMail list that people are making choices rather quickly. Sure, IMail 8 and Declude as a pair will limp along for some time, but they are dead-end products at the moment. Even if Ipswitch changes their tune, I no longer trust them and I won't be making myself a victim to a potential screwing at some point down the line. My mail server will no doubt be changing, and I need to choose a new gateway and mail server to replace them.The good news is that I just saved myself the money that I was going to send to Ipswitch for a new service agreement :) This is the most ungraceful upgrade path that a piece of software has ever seen when you consider all the choices, and I've seen some rather hefty changes such as the WebTrends path to becoming an expensive niche analytics company. Ipswitch will probably manage the transition fairly well, keeping say 1 out of 10 subscribers, but it will doom their product to take themselves out of the mainstream in this way considering that their pricing now makes them appear not much different than Exchange, and doing so in a time when capable products are coming up that are cheaper or even free. I have a memory for people and companies that try to screw me, and this upgrade path is a screw if I've ever seen one, and they will never get another dime from me unless the management is forced out that made these choices. Consider that to be a personal observation and preference, so the sky is definitely blue.MattMattSanford Whiteman wrote: So what do you do when the next IMail exploit pops up such as that LDAP exploit and you have no way to fix the bug? Can a serious business even take the risk of this happening? There's no evidence to suggest that security-related patches will not be made available for old versions, as evidenced repeatedly in the pattern of moves from 5-6, 6-7, and 7-8. The particular exploit you mentioned is in a component of IMail that is now open-source, and so by definition can always be patched. Furthermore, using IMail simply as a wrapper for Declude gives you only one possible attack vector (SMTPD) in a module which essentially hasn't changed in several years (SMTPD retains its old, non-multithreaded code, despite QUEUEMGR's improvements on the delivery side). Such patterns may change, but telling our IMail clients that we're choosing them a new product _now_ would be an admittance of a sheer lack of control. I'd prefer that the development of, for example, a new Declude MTA or preferred MTA integration not be paced by user panic. --Sandy Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist Broadleaf Systems, a division of Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. -- = MailPure custom filters for Declude JunkMail Pro. http://www.mailpure.com/software/ =
Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
The good news is that I just saved myself the money by switching to GEICO? Sorry, couldn't resist. The IPswitch situation is just getting pretty humorous... Fortunatelymost of us willhave from 1-2 years before having to replace IMail. Big question is what do companies likeCH do that need the new sales and contract renewals that won't come if IPswitch doesn't recant and sell the base product. Even ifIpswitch does recant, many will go elsewhere anyway, resulting in a significant sales drop. Darin. - Original Message - From: Matt To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 1:29 AM Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? Sandy,I'm not going to debate whether or not the 'sky is blue' with you, but please don't paint by inference that I'm jumping the gun by contemplating a very likely change of platforms within the next year.Scott and the management at Declude might want to continue their silence regarding target platforms, but they need to make it known before I make a conscious choice in order to have a better chance of keeping my business, and I would think that it would be in their best interest to let others know as well because it is clear in the IMail list that people are making choices rather quickly. Sure, IMail 8 and Declude as a pair will limp along for some time, but they are dead-end products at the moment. Even if Ipswitch changes their tune, I no longer trust them and I won't be making myself a victim to a potential screwing at some point down the line. My mail server will no doubt be changing, and I need to choose a new gateway and mail server to replace them.The good news is that I just saved myself the money that I was going to send to Ipswitch for a new service agreement :) This is the most ungraceful upgrade path that a piece of software has ever seen when you consider all the choices, and I've seen some rather hefty changes such as the WebTrends path to becoming an expensive niche analytics company. Ipswitch will probably manage the transition fairly well, keeping say 1 out of 10 subscribers, but it will doom their product to take themselves out of the mainstream in this way considering that their pricing now makes them appear not much different than Exchange, and doing so in a time when capable products are coming up that are cheaper or even free. I have a memory for people and companies that try to screw me, and this upgrade path is a screw if I've ever seen one, and they will never get another dime from me unless the management is forced out that made these choices. Consider that to be a personal observation and preference, so the sky is definitely blue.MattMattSanford Whiteman wrote: So what do you do when the next IMail exploit pops up such as that LDAP exploit and you have no way to fix the bug? Can a serious business even take the risk of this happening? There's no evidence to suggest that security-related patches will not be made available for old versions, as evidenced repeatedly in the pattern of moves from 5-6, 6-7, and 7-8. The particular exploit you mentioned is in a component of IMail that is now open-source, and so by definition can always be patched. Furthermore, using IMail simply as a wrapper for Declude gives you only one possible attack vector (SMTPD) in a module which essentially hasn't changed in several years (SMTPD retains its old, non-multithreaded code, despite QUEUEMGR's improvements on the delivery side). Such patterns may change, but telling our IMail clients that we're choosing them a new product _now_ would be an admittance of a sheer lack of control. I'd prefer that the development of, for example, a new Declude MTA or preferred MTA integration not be paced by user panic. --Sandy Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist Broadleaf Systems, a division of Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. -- = MailPure custom filters for Declude JunkMail Pro. http://www.mailpure.com/software/ =
RE: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
Having started this thread, I now feel that maybe it was too quick to expect anything from Declude other than a We are reviewing the situation will get back too you soon. It has been only 24 hours. A thought-out response is better than a quick, off the top of the head one. Technically the product is probably not dead-end, but from an old customer base standpoint, it may well be. I sure cant afford the future annual service agreements much less the upgrade cost. I think Ipswitch, while in their rights to direct their product as they please, forgot something important consideration of their existing customers. John Matt wrote: Scott and the management at Declude might want to continue their silence regarding target platforms, but they need to make it known before I make a conscious choice in order to have a better chance of keeping my business, and I would think that it would be in their best interest to let others know as well because it is clear in the IMail list that people are making choices rather quickly. Sure, IMail 8 and Declude as a pair will limp along for some time, but they are dead-end products at the moment.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
Why bother. Imail is a product of the past. Time to move on. At 10:48 AM 10/26/2004 -0400, you wrote: >>>> Everyone who still wants to use imail should call the sales dept [(800) 793-4825] and lodge a complaint (politely). The girl I spoke to at least seemed to listen. Robert -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Carter Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 10:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? Having started this thread, I now feel that maybe it was too quick to expect anything from Declude other than a We are reviewing the situation will get back too you soon. It has been only 24 hours. A thought-out response is better than a quick, off the top of the head one. Technically the product is probably not dead-end, but from an old customer base standpoint, it may well be. I sure cant afford the future annual service agreements much less the upgrade cost. I think Ipswitch, while in their rights to direct their product as they please, forgot something important consideration of their existing customers. John Matt wrote: Scott and the management at Declude might want to continue their silence regarding target platforms, but they need to make it known before I make a conscious choice in order to have a better chance of keeping my business, and I would think that it would be in their best interest to let others know as well because it is clear in the IMail list that people are making choices rather quickly. Sure, IMail 8 and Declude as a pair will limp along for some time, but they are dead-end products at the moment. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
From what I have seen on Ipswich's site as well as on this thread it sounds as though if you are running Imail 8.x (or any other version) and do not pay to upgrade to the new collaboration suite you will receive absolutely no support after your current service agreement expires. Has anyone had a chance to verify this with Ipswich yet? If we could get another year of support for Imail 8.x it might be worth it to stay with Imail for another year, but if we won't have any support from Ipswich I think it would be prudent to look at another product. Even with the discount's for existing customers $12,000 to upgrade 2 imail servers just because Imail is forcing us to doesn't make much sense. What about next year, I would almost bet that the service contract renewals will be higher than they were with regular Imail?? Jim Matuska Jr. Computer Tech II CCNA Nez Perce Tribe Information Systems [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Fritz Squib [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 5:31 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? See http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ And http://www.ipswitch.com/forums/messages.aspx?ForumID=10 Ipswitch is abandoning Imail for their new Collaboration Suite. Fritz Frederick P. Squib, Jr. Network Operations/Mail Administrator Citizens Telephone Company of Kecksburg http://www.wpa.net () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\- against microsoft attachments -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Matuska Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 8:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? Ok, I think I missed something here. What is everyone talking about here, is Imail prohibiting add on's such as declude in future versions (I sure hope not), is declude launching a new version for another platform? The panic level just went up with those last few emails. Jim - Original Message - From: R. Scott Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? You have been strangely quiet. Are you in shock or formulating a plan -- hopefully the latter? Although I will admit to shock (disbelief would be a more appropriate term) when I first heard about this. I didn't think that Ipswitch would actually do it. But they did. As for formulating a plan, that is in the works. But a lot will depend on whether Ipswitch is smart enough to fix the problem, or whether they truly isolate the majority of their loyal customers. It may be too early to ask, but what does the future hold for Declude/Imail or Declude and _ mail server product (fill in the blank)? It's too early to say. A lot will depend on how Ipswitch responds to their customers -- I can't imagine that they will completely ignore this. A business can't survive by destroying a loyal customer base, when they have the product to offer. But I can definitely say this: Declude isn't going to go away, no matter what Ipswitch may do. -Scott --- Declude JunkMail: The advanced anti-spam solution for IMail mailservers since 2000. Declude Virus: Ultra reliable virus detection and the leader in mailserver vulnerability detection. Find out what you've been missing: Ask for a free 30-day evaluation. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail scanned by Citizens Internet Services with Declude Virus.] --- [This E-mail scanned by Citizens Internet Services with Declude Virus.] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
You can not purchase anything to do with Imail at this point. Nothing. I currently have 8.0 because my SA ran out. I was going to renew it next month, heck I'll do it today. All I want right now is 8.1 and any bug fixes to it for the next 12 months. And they can have my $500 for that. That doesn't seem unreasonable. That way at least I have time to look for something else and make an informed decision. I don't care if they just have a firesale on SAs for the next 2 weeks, or whatever, they just should have been very clear as to what WAS going to happen, or have provided a grace period now that it has. Anyone stuck in this situation must call Ipswitch ASAP. Robert -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Matuska Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? From what I have seen on Ipswich's site as well as on this thread it sounds as though if you are running Imail 8.x (or any other version) and do not pay to upgrade to the new collaboration suite you will receive absolutely no support after your current service agreement expires. Has anyone had a chance to verify this with Ipswich yet? If we could get another year of support for Imail 8.x it might be worth it to stay with Imail for another year, but if we won't have any support from Ipswich I think it would be prudent to look at another product. Even with the discount's for existing customers $12,000 to upgrade 2 imail servers just because Imail is forcing us to doesn't make much sense. What about next year, I would almost bet that the service contract renewals will be higher than they were with regular Imail?? Jim Matuska Jr. Computer Tech II CCNA Nez Perce Tribe Information Systems [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Fritz Squib [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 5:31 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? See http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ And http://www.ipswitch.com/forums/messages.aspx?ForumID=10 Ipswitch is abandoning Imail for their new Collaboration Suite. Fritz Frederick P. Squib, Jr. Network Operations/Mail Administrator Citizens Telephone Company of Kecksburg http://www.wpa.net () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\- against microsoft attachments -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Matuska Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 8:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? Ok, I think I missed something here. What is everyone talking about here, is Imail prohibiting add on's such as declude in future versions (I sure hope not), is declude launching a new version for another platform? The panic level just went up with those last few emails. Jim - Original Message - From: R. Scott Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? You have been strangely quiet. Are you in shock or formulating a plan -- hopefully the latter? Although I will admit to shock (disbelief would be a more appropriate term) when I first heard about this. I didn't think that Ipswitch would actually do it. But they did. As for formulating a plan, that is in the works. But a lot will depend on whether Ipswitch is smart enough to fix the problem, or whether they truly isolate the majority of their loyal customers. It may be too early to ask, but what does the future hold for Declude/Imail or Declude and _ mail server product (fill in the blank)? It's too early to say. A lot will depend on how Ipswitch responds to their customers -- I can't imagine that they will completely ignore this. A business can't survive by destroying a loyal customer base, when they have the product to offer. But I can definitely say this: Declude isn't going to go away, no matter what Ipswitch may do. -Scott --- Declude JunkMail: The advanced anti-spam solution for IMail mailservers since 2000. Declude Virus: Ultra reliable virus detection and the leader in mailserver vulnerability detection. Find out what you've been missing: Ask for a free 30-day evaluation. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http
Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
I 100% agree, we have less than a week left on our service agreement, before it expires I will have to make a recommendation to my boss that will likely be one of the following: Option 1: Give in to Imail's new scheme and pay to upgrade to the Imail Collaboration Suite Option 2: Switch to Exchange, an new Spam, and Virus providers (would be very costly) Option 3: Switch to another Email program, find a new Spam, and AntiVirus Solution for the new solution From what I hear many people on the list are going through this process right now. As nice as it was having that office email from CH without and announcement with some sort of details on where declude is heading, I can hear many server admins jumping ship and dumping Imail and Declude within the next 24 to 48 hours. I personally have been very happy with the declude products, and I send the blame 100% to Imail and not Declude, but unfortunately unless some details are provided on where Declude is heading (ASAP) it will be very likely that declude will not be used much longer as much as I hate to say. In a mission critical environment, we cannot be without a supported email product and at this point I don't see how we are going to be able to use declude no matter what choice we make. Jim Matuska Jr. Computer Tech II CCNA Nez Perce Tribe Information Systems [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? I want to add my voice to getting some sort of indicator from CH ASAP. I am buying a mail server in the next several days, and typing up my recommendations now. If CH announces (even eventual) support for one server or another thats a big factor in my decision, as I want Declude Virus running on that box if possible. -- --Matt Robertson-- President, Janitor MSB Designs, Inc. mysecretbase.com --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
Or: Option 4: stay with Imail 8.05 or 8.13 , with declude antivirus and antispam. For now, it is working fine for us we will evaluate mdaemon and other product, but we will not switch now There are people still using Imail 6.0x I'm sure we can use the current code for at least a couple of years - Original Message - From: Jim Matuska [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? I 100% agree, we have less than a week left on our service agreement, before it expires I will have to make a recommendation to my boss that will likely be one of the following: Option 1: Give in to Imail's new scheme and pay to upgrade to the Imail Collaboration Suite Option 2: Switch to Exchange, an new Spam, and Virus providers (would be very costly) Option 3: Switch to another Email program, find a new Spam, and AntiVirus Solution for the new solution From what I hear many people on the list are going through this process right now. As nice as it was having that office email from CH without and announcement with some sort of details on where declude is heading, I can hear many server admins jumping ship and dumping Imail and Declude within the next 24 to 48 hours. I personally have been very happy with the declude products, and I send the blame 100% to Imail and not Declude, but unfortunately unless some details are provided on where Declude is heading (ASAP) it will be very likely that declude will not be used much longer as much as I hate to say. In a mission critical environment, we cannot be without a supported email product and at this point I don't see how we are going to be able to use declude no matter what choice we make. Jim Matuska Jr. Computer Tech II CCNA Nez Perce Tribe Information Systems [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Matt Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? I want to add my voice to getting some sort of indicator from CH ASAP. I am buying a mail server in the next several days, and typing up my recommendations now. If CH announces (even eventual) support for one server or another thats a big factor in my decision, as I want Declude Virus running on that box if possible. -- --Matt Robertson-- President, Janitor MSB Designs, Inc. mysecretbase.com --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
I called Ipswitch this morning. After I let them have it they said that we could continue with our subscription and they would offer hotfixes and support. Considering I don't need a support agreement to get hotfixes in the current release and I never call tech support, I'm not going to renew. This of course doesn't mean that Imail/Declude stops working. It seems to me that I have at least 12-30 months of use out of the current versions of Imail and Declude. So I think the reality of the situation is that people who are freaking out because they need to go buy a new piece of software are over-reacting. I ran Imail 4.7 for years after 7 was released. The only reason I upgraded Imail was because I found Declude. Having said that I have no reason to switch MTA's as long as Declude keeps working or Declude comes out with something better. Just my $.02 --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
The part where it isn't an overreaction is for folks who are actively buying new products. I've got one purchase certain within the next several days and another likely in the next 60. I figure that barring any catastrophic exploits showing up that Ipswitch won't patch, I've got a year or two with my own Imail 8.11. Anyone got any opinions on MailEnable? Their pricing looks good and so does the product. I've been leaning way over in the direction of Merak but this makes me real curious. Anyone run it under load? -- --Matt Robertson-- President, Janitor MSB Designs, Inc. mysecretbase.com --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
Anyone got any opinions on MailEnable? Their pricing looks good and so does the product. I've been leaning way over in the direction of Merak but this makes me real curious. Anyone run it under load? No load but I installed it on my backup server in place of MS STMP and it seems to work. I can't really place that much of a load on it in a test enviroment. Did notice that it has some rather cool features for something that is the same price as I paid for Imail when I first purchased it, years ago. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
You have been strangely quiet. Are you in shock or formulating a plan -- hopefully the latter? Although I will admit to shock (disbelief would be a more appropriate term) when I first heard about this. I didn't think that Ipswitch would actually do it. But they did. As for formulating a plan, that is in the works. But a lot will depend on whether Ipswitch is smart enough to fix the problem, or whether they truly isolate the majority of their loyal customers. It may be too early to ask, but what does the future hold for Declude/Imail or Declude and _ mail server product (fill in the blank)? It's too early to say. A lot will depend on how Ipswitch responds to their customers -- I can't imagine that they will completely ignore this. A business can't survive by destroying a loyal customer base, when they have the product to offer. But I can definitely say this: Declude isn't going to go away, no matter what Ipswitch may do. -Scott --- Declude JunkMail: The advanced anti-spam solution for IMail mailservers since 2000. Declude Virus: Ultra reliable virus detection and the leader in mailserver vulnerability detection. Find out what you've been missing: Ask for a free 30-day evaluation. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
That's great to hear. I've only stayed with Imail as long as I have because of Declude. I quit upgrading after 7.15 and let my Imail SA lapse. I'll be installing Exchange in a few months and will use my Imail/Declude setup as a front end to isolate the Exchange server from the Internet and plan to add Declude Anti-Spam at that time. If you create a standalone product that will replace my present Imail/Declude setup I'll be ecstatic (unless you pull and Ipswitch and charge an arm and a leg). R. Scott Perry wrote: But I can definitely say this: Declude isn't going to go away, no matter what Ipswitch may do. -- Dan Shadix IT Systems Administrator Terry Reilly Health Services --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
Scott, I accept that Declude isn't going away, but I've dumped a lot of money into building my service around both Declude and IMail, and as things stand at the moment, I don't have $4,000 to dump on their new product just so that I can get updates for the things that they have managed to break and not fix. If you are working on another MTA, then let's hear it! As things stand at the moment, it looks like I have no other choice but to switch to another platform, and it would be best to know what your plans are before I start making my own. My gut tells me that even if I threw Ipswitch another $4,000, nothing would really change with them except for the damn price, and I really, really hate being taken advantage of. Maybe you are confident about your plans for the future, but not knowing them, how could I be. Thanks, Matt R. Scott Perry wrote: You have been strangely quiet. Are you in shock or formulating a plan -- hopefully the latter? Although I will admit to shock (disbelief would be a more appropriate term) when I first heard about this. I didn't think that Ipswitch would actually do it. But they did. As for formulating a plan, that is in the works. But a lot will depend on whether Ipswitch is smart enough to fix the problem, or whether they truly isolate the majority of their loyal customers. It may be too early to ask, but what does the future hold for Declude/Imail or Declude and _ mail server product (fill in the blank)? It's too early to say. A lot will depend on how Ipswitch responds to their customers -- I can't imagine that they will completely ignore this. A business can't survive by destroying a loyal customer base, when they have the product to offer. But I can definitely say this: Declude isn't going to go away, no matter what Ipswitch may do. -Scott --- Declude JunkMail: The advanced anti-spam solution for IMail mailservers since 2000. Declude Virus: Ultra reliable virus detection and the leader in mailserver vulnerability detection. Find out what you've been missing: Ask for a free 30-day evaluation. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. -- = MailPure custom filters for Declude JunkMail Pro. http://www.mailpure.com/software/ = --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
ditto looking seriously to moving to exim (unix, www.exim.org, free), or more likely, Mdaemon (windows platform, supports sniffer) knowing if declude is planning to interface with another product will probably help me make the decision - Original Message - From: Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 11:53 PM Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? Scott, I accept that Declude isn't going away, but I've dumped a lot of money into building my service around both Declude and IMail, and as things stand at the moment, I don't have $4,000 to dump on their new product just so that I can get updates for the things that they have managed to break and not fix. If you are working on another MTA, then let's hear it! As things stand at the moment, it looks like I have no other choice but to switch to another platform, and it would be best to know what your plans are before I start making my own. My gut tells me that even if I threw Ipswitch another $4,000, nothing would really change with them except for the damn price, and I really, really hate being taken advantage of. Maybe you are confident about your plans for the future, but not knowing them, how could I be. Thanks, Matt R. Scott Perry wrote: You have been strangely quiet. Are you in shock or formulating a plan -- hopefully the latter? Although I will admit to shock (disbelief would be a more appropriate term) when I first heard about this. I didn't think that Ipswitch would actually do it. But they did. As for formulating a plan, that is in the works. But a lot will depend on whether Ipswitch is smart enough to fix the problem, or whether they truly isolate the majority of their loyal customers. It may be too early to ask, but what does the future hold for Declude/Imail or Declude and _ mail server product (fill in the blank)? It's too early to say. A lot will depend on how Ipswitch responds to their customers -- I can't imagine that they will completely ignore this. A business can't survive by destroying a loyal customer base, when they have the product to offer. But I can definitely say this: Declude isn't going to go away, no matter what Ipswitch may do. -Scott --- Declude JunkMail: The advanced anti-spam solution for IMail mailservers since 2000. Declude Virus: Ultra reliable virus detection and the leader in mailserver vulnerability detection. Find out what you've been missing: Ask for a free 30-day evaluation. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. -- = MailPure custom filters for Declude JunkMail Pro. http://www.mailpure.com/software/ = --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
See http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ And http://www.ipswitch.com/forums/messages.aspx?ForumID=10 Ipswitch is abandoning Imail for their new Collaboration Suite. Fritz Frederick P. Squib, Jr. Network Operations/Mail Administrator Citizens Telephone Company of Kecksburg http://www.wpa.net () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\- against microsoft attachments -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Matuska Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 8:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? Ok, I think I missed something here. What is everyone talking about here, is Imail prohibiting add on's such as declude in future versions (I sure hope not), is declude launching a new version for another platform? The panic level just went up with those last few emails. Jim - Original Message - From: R. Scott Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future? You have been strangely quiet. Are you in shock or formulating a plan -- hopefully the latter? Although I will admit to shock (disbelief would be a more appropriate term) when I first heard about this. I didn't think that Ipswitch would actually do it. But they did. As for formulating a plan, that is in the works. But a lot will depend on whether Ipswitch is smart enough to fix the problem, or whether they truly isolate the majority of their loyal customers. It may be too early to ask, but what does the future hold for Declude/Imail or Declude and _ mail server product (fill in the blank)? It's too early to say. A lot will depend on how Ipswitch responds to their customers -- I can't imagine that they will completely ignore this. A business can't survive by destroying a loyal customer base, when they have the product to offer. But I can definitely say this: Declude isn't going to go away, no matter what Ipswitch may do. -Scott --- Declude JunkMail: The advanced anti-spam solution for IMail mailservers since 2000. Declude Virus: Ultra reliable virus detection and the leader in mailserver vulnerability detection. Find out what you've been missing: Ask for a free 30-day evaluation. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail scanned by Citizens Internet Services with Declude Virus.] --- [This E-mail scanned by Citizens Internet Services with Declude Virus.] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
Sandy, So what do you do when the next IMail exploit pops up such as that LDAP exploit and you have no way to fix the bug? Can a serious business even take the risk of this happening? No. I can't see myself on IMail for any more than a year from now. Matt Sanford Whiteman wrote: What is everyone talking about here, is Imail prohibiting add on's such as declude in future versions No. is declude launching a new version for another platform? It is, as ever, hoped-for but not confirmed. The panic level just went up with those last few emails. It sure did, and despite Ipswitch's scurrilous tactics, I'm not sure exactly why so many people are panicking, declaring that they (the sysadmins) are "outta here" and running out to find another MTA. If you're running 8.1x or 7.1x and are satisfied with its performance as the "wrapper" for great add-ons such as Declude (and in turn for Sniffer, etc.), then why all the make-work? Sure, it's never good to be faced with the knowledge that your relationship with a given vendor will be over when you _do_ want more features, but the argument for this overnight or near-term migration only makes sense if you have a current, spec'd out need for a new feature that (a) is in ICS, but therefore beyond budget within the Ipswitch product line, or (b) is not in ICS, but must be found immediately nonetheless. A couple of posters have implied that they will move to Exchange, since their last best chance to avoid that move (a cheap ICS) hasn't been met; this makes sense as in option (a). Someone expecting needing envelope-level anti-spam rejections might move on as in option (b). But wherefore all the other cut-and-run posts? We're only now moving some of our last Novell 4.11 shops over to non-Novell OSs, and these clients have known for a shocking number of years that they would not be using NetWare when the time came to move on. Were we all angry at Novell for abandoning us when 5 and 6 both (in our opinions) sucked? Yes. Did _we_ abandon _them_ in revenge, when maintaining their most recent release didn't cost a thing? Certainly not overnight. --Sandy Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist Broadleaf Systems, a division of Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. -- = MailPure custom filters for Declude JunkMail Pro. http://www.mailpure.com/software/ =
Re: [Declude.Virus] Scott, what is our future?
Sandy, I'm not going to debate whether or not the 'sky is blue' with you, but please don't paint by inference that I'm jumping the gun by contemplating a very likely change of platforms within the next year. Scott and the management at Declude might want to continue their silence regarding target platforms, but they need to make it known before I make a conscious choice in order to have a better chance of keeping my business, and I would think that it would be in their best interest to let others know as well because it is clear in the IMail list that people are making choices rather quickly. Sure, IMail 8 and Declude as a pair will limp along for some time, but they are dead-end products at the moment. Even if Ipswitch changes their tune, I no longer trust them and I won't be making myself a victim to a potential screwing at some point down the line. My mail server will no doubt be changing, and I need to choose a new gateway and mail server to replace them. The good news is that I just saved myself the money that I was going to send to Ipswitch for a new service agreement :) This is the most ungraceful upgrade path that a piece of software has ever seen when you consider all the choices, and I've seen some rather hefty changes such as the WebTrends path to becoming an expensive niche analytics company. Ipswitch will probably manage the transition fairly well, keeping say 1 out of 10 subscribers, but it will doom their product to take themselves out of the mainstream in this way considering that their pricing now makes them appear not much different than Exchange, and doing so in a time when capable products are coming up that are cheaper or even free. I have a memory for people and companies that try to screw me, and this upgrade path is a screw if I've ever seen one, and they will never get another dime from me unless the management is forced out that made these choices. Consider that to be a personal observation and preference, so the sky is definitely blue. Matt Matt Sanford Whiteman wrote: So what do you do when the next IMail exploit pops up such as that LDAP exploit and you have no way to fix the bug? Can a serious business even take the risk of this happening? There's no evidence to suggest that security-related patches will not be made available for old versions, as evidenced repeatedly in the pattern of moves from 5-6, 6-7, and 7-8. The particular exploit you mentioned is in a component of IMail that is now open-source, and so by definition can always be patched. Furthermore, using IMail simply as a wrapper for Declude gives you only one possible attack vector (SMTPD) in a module which essentially hasn't changed in several years (SMTPD retains its old, non-multithreaded code, despite QUEUEMGR's improvements on the delivery side). Such patterns may change, but telling our IMail clients that we're choosing them a new product _now_ would be an admittance of a sheer lack of control. I'd prefer that the development of, for example, a new Declude MTA or preferred MTA integration not be paced by user panic. --Sandy Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist Broadleaf Systems, a division of Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.Virus".The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. -- = MailPure custom filters for Declude JunkMail Pro. http://www.mailpure.com/software/ =
