Re: [Finale] Finale 2003 Review
Robert Patterson writes: One item in your review puzzles me. About the new staff attributes, you said, ...the most fast and flexible way to now set the stem direction for a region of a staff is to create and apply a Staff Style for it. How is using a staff style either faster or more flexible than selecting a region in Mass Mover and Freezing Stems up? I have a quick key for Freeze Stems up, so I can do it darn near instantly, plus it only affects the layers that are visible (i.e., more flexible.) Using the Mass Mover approach will make _permanent_ stem direction changes. Applying a Staff Style for stem direction will not. This makes it easier to revert to some other stem direction style, if the staff is used in some other context (such as scores vs. parts or different kinds of scores). Best regards, Jari Williamsson ICQ #: 78036563 ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] piano size
What is the best size to print piano scores especially for libraries? Thanks Vivian ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Fin 2003
Finale runs (slowly) in classic mode already That seems to depend on the power (and RAM?) of your Mac. I don't see any difference in speed on mine. The OS X-related announcement does sound like they fixed some problems with Finale in Classic mode under OS X, although no details are given. tg ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2003 Review
Thank you very much for producing this review! I ordered my upgrade the instant I read the notice, and your review has not made me sorry I did so! In fact, it made me more eager to get it -- it seems some real productivity enhancements have been included. Now, if only what seem to be productivity enhancements prove to be so in reality! That notation-to-tab conversion feature (and all the other tab enhancements) seem like it will make Finale a great program for people who work with fretted instruments, finally! Thanks again! One thing which wasn't mentioned, though -- do all the third-party plug-ins from previous versions still work with the new version? I certainly hope so. Jari Williamsson wrote: Hello! Finale 2003 review with some tips at: http://www.finaletips.nu/ Let me know if you spot any errors. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ICQ #: 78036563 ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin 2003
Darcy James Argue wrote: All major Mac applications (with the exception of Quark and a handful of digital audio apps) This handful of digitial audio apps cannot be so lightly dismissed. (Read on.) So what's wrong with Coda? More to the point, what's wrong with OSX? One of those digital audio apps you dismissed is Performer, which if you recall is also a major MIDI app. (perhaps *the* major MIDI app) for Macs. I think it no coincidence that these programs are lagging behind the curve. Apple has promised impressive built-in features for both MIDI and digitial audio in an unspecified upcoming release of OSX. I believe that rather than rolling their own MIDI and audio drivers, many music programs (esp. those committed heavily to MacOS s.a. Digidesign and MOTU) are waiting for these to be available before releasing OSX-native versions, and I can't say I blame them. Coda delaying Carbon a year may be evidence of a strong commitment to using the new OSX midi features. If so, I'd rather wait. Meanwhile, if Finale runs acceptably in Classic mode, the only thing you're really missing is the transluscent blue aqua buttons. Personally, I don't give a flip about those. Crash recovery and memory management are bigger deals, but Finale is quite well behaved in both those departments. -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2003 Review
David H. Bailey writes: One thing which wasn't mentioned, though -- do all the third-party plug-ins from previous versions still work with the new version? I certainly hope so. Generally no problems at all. The current version of Forza! (0.15a) will not run on Finale 2003, but the next beta will. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ICQ #: 78036563 ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Beaming across barlines problem
Hi folks, Here's the problem: Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra, 1st movement, 1st clarinet part, 3/8 time, measure 192: quarter-8th, measure 193: 8th-quarter. The two 8ths are beamed together (across the barline) and tied. I can't seem to find a way to do that in Finale. Any suggestions? Thanks, Lon Lon Price, Los Angeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.aol.com/txstnr/ ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Beaming across barlines problem
Lon Price wrote: The two 8ths are beamed together (across the barline) and tied. This is not directly supported. Two workarounds are possible: The simplest works only if the barline is in mid-system. That is to place the tied-to note in the preceding bar and drag into alignment with the pos. adj. tool. Then hide the tied-to note in the next bar. The other option is to change both the two 8ths to quarters (using invisible tuplets) and draw the beam in by hand as a shape exp. or cust. line. -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] MIDI to Piano Reduction and More
I recently took advantage of Coda's amnesty offer and upgraded from Finale 3.7 to Finale 2002 for Mac. I love all the changes since 3.7, but I have three questions: Question 1: One of the main attractions for me after reading the 2002 description at the web site was the ability to easily import MIDI files into two-staff piano reductions, and I assumed from the features blurb that this could be done while opening the MIDI file -- bypassing the usual 5-10-staff result. Maybe I just haven't found it in the manual, but so far, what I have done is to Open the MIDI file using the default settings, and then apply the Piano-reduction plug-in. That works, but is there a way to import MIDI files into two-staff format in one swell foop? Question 2: I'm using the Finale driver, a Yamaha PSR-79 keyboard, and the computer-internal-speaker click for my beat. The connection works, but I'm having trouble getting my quarter notes to show as quarter notes. Tried to input a simple hymn and the first few measures were fine, but subsequent ones showed up as an eighth-rest-with-eighth-note instead of a quarter note. Not sure if it is my touch or what, but I need some help with this one. (Did not have this problem in 3.7.) Question 3: Melody Morph was another attraction for me (church organist/choir director) because I saw it as a way to generate transitions/modulations from one hymn to another. The resulting morph is all 16th notes, which I gather is the way it is supposed to be, but aside from printing out the transition and taking it to the organ to figure out rhythms/etc., how do you make the transition into something useful? Thanks in advance for any suggestions/solutions. Thurletta M. Brown-Gavins ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Beaming across barlines problem
Robert Patterson wrote: Lon Price wrote: The two 8ths are beamed together (across the barline) and tied. This is not directly supported. Two workarounds are possible: The simplest works only if the barline is in mid-system. That is to place the tied-to note in the preceding bar and drag into alignment with the pos. adj. tool. Then hide the tied-to note in the next bar. The other option is to change both the two 8ths to quarters (using invisible tuplets) and draw the beam in by hand as a shape exp. or cust. line. -- Robert Patterson Thanks for the suggestions. Actually, I was able to replace the first quarter with two 8ths, then hide the second 8th, and drag the beam over, making the first 8th look like a quarter. Then I did the same thing with the last quarter. Then I was able to drag the beam in the first measure over to the first 8th in the second measure, in order to create the beam across the bar. Thanks again, Lon ** Lon Price, Los Angeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.aol.com/txstnr/ ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Beaming across barlines problem
Lon Price writes: Hi folks, Here's the problem: Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra, 1st movement, 1st clarinet part, 3/8 time, measure 192: quarter-8th, measure 193: 8th-quarter. The two 8ths are beamed together (across the barline) and tied. I can't seem to find a way to do that in Finale. Any suggestions? Dear Ron, Robert Patterson gives you good advice, but if you haven't done this before, it might be helpful to have step-by-step directions: In Speedy entry, turn off Jump to Next Measure and Check for Extra Notes. Enter the quarter, then the two eighths that will be tied. Move to the next measure and enter an eighth rest (or note) and hit O (letter oh). Go to the score and use the Special Tools to move the second of the tied eighths to its proper location in the second bar. This will work as long as the two bars involved are not broken by a system break. In that case, you have to use the other method Robert mentioned - using the tuplet tool to change the two eighths to quarters and make graphic beam segments to attach to the tied notes. One of these days Coda will give us simpler ways of accomplishing this - or maybe one of our plug-in artists will provide one that will accomplish it for us. Best of luck. Hal -- Harold Owen 2830 Emerald St., Eugene, OR 97403 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit my web site at: http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~hjowen FAX: (509) 461-3608 ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Beaming across barlines problem
Harold Owen wrote: One of these days Coda will give us simpler ways of accomplishing this - or maybe one of our plug-in artists will provide one that will accomplish it for us. Stay tuned on the plugin front. I have a proof-of-concept working and hope to post a beta version online soon. The ugliest part is dealing with system breaks where one side or the other of the beam has only a single note. It may not be able fully to compensate for that. -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] piano size
What is the best size to print piano scores especially for libraries? I don't think there is any one best size. It depends on the music and what your goals are. That said, 83.33% (ie, five-sixths) is fairly standard for classical piano. In the absence of any good reason to pick a different size, I would consider that the default choice. I frequently use 75% instead (very common for classical piano-vocal music, which is what most of my work is). I print on an 8.5 x 11 page with sufficient margins to accommodate laser printing and/or binding. Traditional piano music uses a slightly larger page size: the image still fits on 8.5x11, but the larger page gives room to have almost no extra margin. The 75% gives me approximately the same system-per-page fit as 83.33% gives on traditional paper size. If I use 83.33% on my page size, it sometimes gets uncomfortably crowded. mdl ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] TAN Origins of C-time (was Time Signature problem)
In Message: 29 Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 06:50:09 -0400 David Bailey wrote: Actually the broken circle indicated simply duple meter (either 2 or 4) as opposed to triple meter. The distinction between 2 and 4 was eventually made by adding a line through the C for 2. Well, that's almost it ... The cut-C originally in mid-15th-century theory was for diminution of the time, only later did it acquire the alla breve connotation. There is argument over whether this later in the 16th century meant perform faster, but in proportional mensural usage around 1450 where there was a mathematical ratio between parts or voices written with different meters, as in Glarean's Dodecachordon and Isaac's Choralis Constantinus, it represents a 2:1 reduction. The time or tempus element was originally the relationship between the long and the breve -- that between breve and semibreve was called prolation, denoted with a dot in the middle of the circle or C. With a dot it was perfect, i.e. a 3:1, without it was 2:1. The theoretical relationship between maxima and long was called mood, but not notated in the 15th century, except it is very occasionally seen in long rests covering three spaces of the staff, rather than the normal duple two. This sub-thread started with a guess that all this began around 1000 AD. Actually it was promulgated by Philippe de Vitry in his treatise Ars Nova in about 1320. But he was a far-sighted guy: although he laid the foundations of French notational theory in the 14th century it was only widely adopted some 80 years after his treatise. Some features, such as up to 7 different uses of the dot, one of which meant octave transposition (as opposed to division of the time-groups and addition (this latter our surviving modern usage)) never came in. For that we can perhaps be grateful! Andrew Parker. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Back to basics.
Like many users I am not in a position toconsider regular up-grades, I'm on 2001 and very content with that, but I really feel it's time I bit the bullet and (confession time!) updated myself to Speedy Entry. Like many self taught from the primer that came with first purchase users I was so delighted to acheive anything that I have stuck with it! Being retired I don't mine the slowness of simple entry- I have the time and seldom have deadlines- other than self-imposed! But, I know that what takes me 20 mins and probably 400 mouse-clicks would take, on speedy, 7 mins and -guessing- 20 mouse clicks. Being on a very fixed income I cannot afford to continually buy up-dates, plug-ins, books, tutorials etc, etc, but can any one point me to a Tutorial book or video or ??? to assist me in my conversion to speedy. I use speedy for somethings, beam break/create, insert diatonic/advisory 'accidentals', hide notes/rests and occasionally tuplet/triplet creation so I have very BASIC knowledge of the beast. Any advice greatly appreciated. Regards, Keith in OZ. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin 2003
On Sunday, June 2, 2002, at 08:49 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: Darcy James Argue wrote: All major Mac applications (with the exception of Quark and a handful of digital audio apps) This handful of digitial audio apps cannot be so lightly dismissed. (Read on.) I didn't mean to lightly dismiss them -- it's just that (A) there seem to be plenty of digital audio apps that have been upgraded/written for OS X, including name apps like BIAS Peak, and a host of shareware apps (I use Amadeus II, which is a very nice product), and (B) my digital audio needs are rather modest so I don't know the scene as well as others here. So what's wrong with Coda? More to the point, what's wrong with OSX? A fair question. However, I should point out again that Sibelius seems to have solved this problem a few months ago, while Coda wants us to wait another year. I think it no coincidence that these programs are lagging behind the curve. Apple has promised impressive built-in features for both MIDI and digitial audio in an unspecified upcoming release of OSX. I believe that rather than rolling their own MIDI and audio drivers, many music programs (esp. those committed heavily to MacOS s.a. Digidesign and MOTU) are waiting for these to be available before releasing OSX-native versions, and I can't say I blame them. Coda delaying Carbon a year may be evidence of a strong commitment to using the new OSX midi features. If so, I'd rather wait. If that's the case, then I wish Coda would simply *say* so! And rather than wait for the next upgrade cycle (a year from now), I would appreciate a policy such as Coda has effectively finished the Carbonization of Finale and we are simply waiting for Apple's OS X MIDI drivers to be completed. As soon as these features are added to OS X, we will incorporate them into Finale and release an OS X version as soon as possible. Meanwhile, if Finale runs acceptably in Classic mode, the only thing you're really missing is the transluscent blue aqua buttons. Well, no actually, right now I'm missing: - *any* MIDI support at all (and that's the deal-breaker -- I could stop right there.) - comparable performance to OS 9 (FYI, I have 768 MB of RAM and a 400 MHz G4). Launching Classic mode also slows down the performance of the entire system -- for instance, QuickTime videos which played back perfectly without Classic running in the background now stutter and drop frames. - the ability to Save as PDF right from the File menu - the ability to use the OS X-native version of QuicKeys (QuicKeys runs noticeably slower under Classic). - the system-wide spelling dictionary (for lyrics and other text) - Quartz graphics -- yes, this is purely cosmetic, but anyone who has compared OmniWeb to any other web browser out there knows how much of an aesthetic difference this makes. And the new version of Quartz (in OS 10.2) will be hardware-accelerated, which should greatly improve redraws, scrolling, and moving windows. - window translucency -- this is a biggie for plugins with large windows like Tobias's Staff List Manager, where I frequently wish I could see *behind* the window so I can look at what I'm doing. - access to the OS X printing drivers -- the OS 9 drivers for my HP LaserJet 2200D are incredibly buggy. They require me to turn the printer off and on before beginning my first print job, and they frequently crash the system entirely. The OS X drivers work flawlessly and never choke on big jobs. You can also save and name an unlimited number of print settings for future retrieval. In OS 9 you can only save one set at any given time. - and, as you said, dynamic memory management and protected memory. Classic mode is a kludge, a stop-gap measure. It is (still, unfortunately) a necessary kludge, but the only real stragglers left appear to be audio apps and Finale. If, as you say, this is Apple's fault, not theirs, then I am still just as angry and frustrated, but at Apple, not Coda. And really, if it turns out that MIDI does work under Classic mode in FinMac2003, then that's *something*, at least -- it means I won't have to boot back to OS 9 every time I want to work on Finale. Still, if the MIDI drivers are the real hangup here, I would also want Coda to assure us that the OS X version will be forthcoming shortly after those drivers are released -- no waiting around for the next upgrade cycle. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Boston MA ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Beaming across barlines problem
At 01:36 PM 6/2/02 -0700, you wrote: One of these days Coda will give us simpler ways of accomplishing this - or maybe one of our plug-in artists will provide one that will accomplish it for us. Please, a plug-in of some kind. I have been asking for this since Finale 2.2, and that's just about 10 years now. It is *never* going to happen -- Finale seems much more interested in pop features now. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Beaming across barlines problem
At 02:14 PM 6/2/02 -0800, Mark D. Lew wrote: what I did was turn the quarter note before and the one after into and eighth as a tuplet (ie, one 8th in the time of two 8ths). That gives me a beam to work with, then I used the beam extension tool to move the beams over. Note that with this method you also have to use the beam stem adjust tool to get the stems lined up properly. I hadn't thought of the invisible barline solution. In retrospect I think that probably would have been easier. System breaks are a problem, and with almost all the system break solutions, it doesn't produce a proper Midi demo. It happened just two days ago when I had to deliver my seven new violin-cello duos in PDF format, with demos. I had to give up on the correct spelling across the barline, and follow up with copies using using white-out and a pen. G. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] MIDI in Mac OS X (was Fin 2003)
Darcy James Argue wrote: BTW Robert, I'm not trying to dispute what you wrote RE incomplete or to-be-revised MIDI implementation in OS X -- but could you maybe provide a pointer for more information? My info is from an Elec. Musician article from several months back. (I can't seem to find it at the moment.) I had the impression that Jaguar timeframe was when the high-perf. audio/midi features would be added, but the article appeared long before it was called Jaguar. Meanwhile, I haven't seen anything more recent saying that these features are now soup. But they might be. Perhaps someone else knows. -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] re: Pachelbel's canon
I hesitated to respond to David Fenton's comments about my comments, since I hate getting into slugfests with him. But not to answer seems to imply that I agree with his criticisms. David, if you will reread my post, you'll see I said that my chord labeling included non-functional chords, and I said that the Pachelbel canon's I to I progression (the first 3/4s of the phrase) is based on the sequential pattern that comes from descending 10ths. You call it descending 3rds. No difference. I did not get into the prolongational function of these chords, though you (and Hal) propose some ideas. I hear this as a prolongation of I followed by a half cadence. Thus, I (V-vi-iii-IV) I IV V -- and the foreground level would show the sequentially descending fourths. I agree that the IV-I sounds plagal, and is quite strong, but I think this is a function of the chords being all in root position, which makes this IV-I stand out (with the direct fifths in the outer voices emphasizing the return to tonic before the phrase-ending half cadence). For comparison, look at Beethoven Op. 109 opening phrase of first movement. Same progression as Pachelbel up to the cadence, except Beethoven makes the sequence explicit (with more melodic information in the parts), keeps the descending 10ths (that is, every other chord is in first inversion), and ends it with an IAC. Here, I think, the prolongation of I to the cadence (with the functional bass line arpeggiating I: E-G#-B-E) is clear -- and I think the differences voice leading and bass differences in Pachelbel do not change the prolongation of the phrase. Of course, in some sense, each of the competing analyses proposed so far has some merit. It is all in how you choose to hear it. The point, though, was to explain the chord progression in Pachelbel -- the questioner was wondering why it went down a fourth and then up a step. And my answer for him was to relate the Pachelbel to the standard sequential harmonic pattern generated from descending 10ths (or, if you insist, 3rds). My goodness -- a lot of discussion about a rather banal piece, especially one that makes so many of us switch radio stations when it comes on! David Froom ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Back to basics.
At 7:17 PM 06/02/02, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: I started with Speedy (I don't play keyboard, and never actually tried the other way), and I can enter music almost as fast as I can write it with a pencil, including accidentals and beaming (except, ahem, across barlines) and grace notes. I hope you can learn it easily, as I think it is an extremely fast way to work. I agree with that. I can enter speedy on qwerty faster than I can write it by hand if it's a single voice part. If there's a lot of chords, then it's a little slower. I wish they'd add to speedy entry a key that toggles between normal mode and a mode where entering a note (ie typing a number) doesn't advance the cursor. That would cut out all those left-arrows with the right thumb, which slow me down. I know that sounds like a tiny difference, but when your cranking out the notes at full speed, they can add up. I nominate the space bar for this. Right now it initiates playback, but that could be disabled whenever speedy entry is engaged with no real loss. The other thing lacking for high-speed speedy entry is any letter key that sets the cursor below low C (ie the second ledger line under the bass clef). I want a key that acts like I but takes it down another octave . I frequently get notes below that C in left hand piano parts, and it's a pain to have to use the down arrow to get there. I guess grace notes would have been a little easier if they were on the apostrophe instead of the semi-colon. I do them with the right hand (which resides on the number pad), and I suppose it would be a little easier to make the jump if it were one key closer, but I'm pretty much used to going to the semi-colon now. (I almost never use the apostrophe; I do my multiple voicing with layers as much as possible.) But I don't see any point in swapping them now since it would no doubt confuse everyone who is used to it the way it is (including me, no doubt). Another thing that might help speedy entry is if there were some sort of sounds made as keystrokes are made, not just the pitches for notes as they're entered, but a characteristic sound everytime the cursor moves left or right, and another one for when it crosses a barline. That would make it easier for me to keep my eyes on the page without checking the screen every so often. Occasionally I'll look up and find that I've entered several measures wrong because I missed a keystroke a ways back. A new feature that I *don't* like is that typing a number when the cursor is on a note that is already of that value will add a note to the chord. It was better the old way, where it just advanced the cursor and did nothing. That way you could fix/change rhythms by running through the measures with just the number keys, without it doing anything else to the notes. Now if you do that you have to make sure to arrow instead for the notes where the rhythm doesn't change, lest you introduce unwanted pitches. The change has pretty much rendered that technique useless for me, because I have to stop and think about each chord to do it, at which point I've lost the speed advantage. mdl ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Back to basics.
At 8:40 PM 06/02/02, David H. Bailey wrote: Speedy isn't that hard -- the way I use it is to keep my right hand on the cursor keys, and my left hand available to hit the number keys on the top row to change duration. Depending on how short or long the note values get I usually keep my middle finger on either the 4 or 5 (for the 8th note or the quarter note) and I find this to be the fastest method for me. It is a very short reach to hit the = key for ties, the + or - for sharps or flats, the . key for dotted rhythms. Others will hopefully chime in with their modus operandi You don't have a number pad? I'm used to ten-key anyway, since one of my other jobs is doing accounting. (I even use the number pad in word-processing: for example, if I'm typing a phone number.) I keep my right hand on the number pad, where I have all the numerals and the dot in easy reach -- along with +, - and * for accidentals, / and = for beams and ties, and clear and enter for chords and rests. My right thumb covers all four arrows, which are just to the left of the lower part of the number pad on my keyboard. My left hand covers the 21 letters that move the cursor vertically, as well as the shift and option keys. For moving the cursor vertically, I go back and forth between using the letters and using the up and down arrows, depending on how much the line is jumping up and down. mdl ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
