Re: [FRIAM] AI etiquette, Marijuana research

[Gillian Densmore]

Hey! Data is a TASbot+Calculator thank you very much 藍藍.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 9:38 PM cody dooderson  wrote:

> It looks like fiction will never be the same. Here is a list of books
> written by gpt3, https://lifearchitect.ai/books-by-ai/ .
> I haven't read any of these.
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 7:39 PM Prof David West 
> wrote:
>
>> I would not consider Asimov's robots to be "flat and empty," but they are
>> an anomaly in that regard. They did, after all, invent the Zeroth Law of
>> Robotics all by themselves.
>>
>> davew
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, at 2:18 PM, David Eric Smith wrote:
>>
>> I feel like this is yet another reminder that humans, by and large, lack
>> imagination.
>>
>> The reason robots in sci-fi are flat and empty is because sci-fi is
>> re-telling Descartes’s assertion that everything except humans (probably,
>> sotto voce, except him) are flat and affectless.  Maybe even more than
>> machines are that, we imprint that on the paradigm of machine.  It’s just
>> the age-old thing of people needing to feel singular and important, and
>> using vehicles like religion to systematize their neediness.  That sci-fi
>> prides itself on being imaginative, while re-telling the same small
>> portfolio of bible stories and other similar sources is human
>> Dunning-Krugerness on display.
>>
>> A world free of all that corruption probably has lots of dimensions of
>> possibility that humans will just drive by without noticing because their
>> minds are elsewhere.
>>
>> Of course, each of your detailed points I recognize is true and a good
>> one,
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 21, 2022, at 2:05 AM, cody dooderson  wrote:
>>
>> It is surprising that AI is so creative. Many science fiction robots were
>> calculated but uncreative. They are like Data from star trek, basically a
>> calculator with very little creative potential. But it seems like AI, as it
>> develops, is actually more creative than its human counterparts.
>> Here are a few examples that come to mind. AlphaGo beat the grandmaster,
>> Lee Sedol, with moves that the grandmaster had never seen before. The art
>> world is seeing some very cool stuff coming out of trained neural networks
>> like Dall-e2*.  In the Sony article, they talk about a trick where the AI
>> put a wheel on the grass to initiate a controlled slide. Do you think that
>> modern Neural networks will give any insight into the nature of creativity?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Dall-e2 https://www.reddit.com/r/weirddalle/
>>
>> Cody Smith
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 7:19 AM Roger Critchlow  wrote:
>>
>> Two articles from MIT Tech Review.
>>
>>
>> https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/07/19/1056176/sonys-racing-ai-destroyed-its-human-competitors-by-being-nice-and-fast/
>> 
>>
>> Training AI drivers for Gran Turismo racing, it turns out that they can
>> learn to physically drive faster than people, but they're too aggressive to
>> win head to head races because they drive the competition off the road.  So
>> you need to train them to observe the norms of the competition, by
>> including penalties for crashes, bumps, cut-offs, etc, into the training.
>> They still drive faster than people, and the way they drive is a bit
>> disturbing to watch.
>>
>> [So if you were training AI drivers for political races, would the norms
>> come from established law or where the voters could be persuaded to mark
>> their polls?]
>>
>>
>> https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/07/20/1056219/weed-influencer-and-scientist-feud-over-cannabis-hyperemesis-syndrome/
>> 
>>
>> The scientist and the instagram influencer attempt to study the genetic
>> causes of CHS (cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome) and the influencer blows
>> up the study when she declares that the scientist is a shill on her
>> channel.  Ah the joys of decision making with uncertainty and cognitive
>> bias.
>>
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[FRIAM] Anyone know a dude? need help replacing an AC unit

[Gillian Densmore]

Hi all!
TLDR:
I need help replacing my AC.  I don't know if anyone knows a dude that's
free in the near future, and if so when etc. It's pretty heavy, the other
problems are about on brand santa fe:
The window is in awkward spot with a couch under it.

If anyone is available email me when you can do it, and if you have more
questions feel free to ask.
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[FRIAM] Here's a more down to earth Q

[Gillian Densmore]

Given rootbear floats is one of the GOAT hot weather drinks:
How is it that we sat down one day and said: you know this ginger,
spices, sarsaparilla?
what happens when its carbonated, then mixed with very cold
crtystalized  dihydrogen monoxide, and decided it was yummy?
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Re: [FRIAM] Gross incompetent maggots concast

[Gillian Densmore]

Huh wait ok, so I sort of "get" why something legacy heavy like copper
might be a a hot minute (physisically speaking) to replace. but it's my my
understanding that fiber (or if it get anywhere: Qbits). while very, very
particular for machining tolerances, repairs now use specialised robots (or
humans) with what looks like a  medievieval hot iron to  patching in  and
physically repair a damaged spection, . I'd think the PITA would be getting
it smooth clean enough so as get a stable digital signal .is their a step
here I've missed (grabe wad of very very expensive plastic insider into
heater- comeback in several hours after it's baked and cooled into fine
polished stupidity. ...(Getting your line tester to get a response from
someplace Abq? that's blackmagic: how can something about the size of a
shop fac send something: test codes down one specific part of internet
connection and a computer (or terminal?) some place else makes a loud
beep.That's magic

and wait dump truck? what the-->  eeerf
initBack.aObj(truck)
return:"instructions unclear: when do I stop backing up?"
else: Eeef. lol well that'd explain part of the problem! f...
and that nocked out some large amount ofinternet in the state? Wowza. I was
at the herbstore. A grower was having a meltdown because they don't know
whats  left from today inventory Smiths was cash only  but the banks were
fine.

Why don't qe h

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 12:00 AM Tom Johnson  wrote:

> A big dump truck took out a bunch of lines at the intersection of
> Cerrillos and Richardson around noon on Wednesday.  The Xfinity lines took
> down every thing in , I think , ZIP Codes 87501, 87502 and 87505.  And if
> there are multiple fiber lines, it's going to take time to resolve.
>
> ===
> Tom Johnson
> Inst. for Analytic Journalism
> Santa Fe, New Mexico
> 505-577-6482
> =======
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 9:59 PM Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>> 20 something assholes stonewallimg.  And none of them would even answer
>> the most basic question of what the hell is going on that would cause a
>> quote-unquote outage that would last the better part of coming up on now
>> three goddamn days. The only thing they would do is just Stonewall repeat
>> the same script nonsense of well there's notage like wtf happened did
>> someone smash a line or dig to deport you know this is not exactly rocket
>> science here there's something physically wrong or something that would be
>> causing a " unquote outage.
>> What is that even supposed to mean at this point? Especially if the only
>> thing they will tell me is well it's an outage I mean what are they doing
>> 3D printing the part and then importing it from booga booga no no no no no
>> this stuff usually is at worst a few hours to to fix there is no mystery
>> here they're just that incompetent.
>>
>>
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[FRIAM] Gross incompetent maggots concast

[Gillian Densmore]

20 something assholes stonewallimg.  And none of them would even answer the
most basic question of what the hell is going on that would cause a
quote-unquote outage that would last the better part of coming up on now
three goddamn days. The only thing they would do is just Stonewall repeat
the same script nonsense of well there's notage like wtf happened did
someone smash a line or dig to deport you know this is not exactly rocket
science here there's something physically wrong or something that would be
causing a " unquote outage.
What is that even supposed to mean at this point? Especially if the only
thing they will tell me is well it's an outage I mean what are they doing
3D printing the part and then importing it from booga booga no no no no no
this stuff usually is at worst a few hours to to fix there is no mystery
here they're just that incompetent.
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[FRIAM] Mmm. Lots fires!

[Gillian Densmore]

Uuuh hii everyone ok from fires?
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Re: [FRIAM] high school education

[Gillian Densmore]

..

Just reading what you said dave my brain hurts.  Sigh I heart Hastur the
King in yellow.

On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 5:18 PM Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> How about let kids do their social stuff until they are ready to do
> something else?
>
> > On May 1, 2022, at 3:46 PM, Prof David West 
> wrote:
> >
> > Just completed two weeks as a substitute teacher in a high-school
> business classes that are offered as advanced placement with the
> possibility of earning college credit.
> >
> > All of the students did no work, spent every minute of class on cell
> phones. About 40% added talking, walking about the room, mock fighting, and
> at one point throwing empty and partly filled plastic water bottles at each
> other. Also a few couples engaged in PDA that approached the 'get a room'
> level.
> >
> > I had no authority, and any and every attempt at imposing any kind of
> discipline, reminding them of work not done, tests not taken, was met with
> arguments and belligerence. An assistant principle came to the room, once,
> and admonished the students and informed them that only five or six
> students, out of 40, were going to pass the class. They ignored her, and
> talked over her scolding. [Essentially all of them will be given passing
> grades for the class.]
> >
> > Students have had 1-2 years of distance learning where more than 70% did
> little or no work, a little over half did not attend at all. They have
> learned that no matter how little they do or learn, they will be promoted
> anyway.
> >
> > The school system is in the fourth year of a "restorative justice"
> policy that prevents any kind of sanctions or punishments for
> misbehavior—except for bringing a gun on campus which will get you
> expelled. Teachers are limited to appealing to the student's better
> instincts. Students have learned this lesson as well, "no consequences for
> bad behavior."
> >
> > Not sure how typical my classes were—I may have been lucky enough to get
> an outlier. But the campus has armed school police and other security staff
> wandering the halls constantly, and we had 2-3 "tardy lockouts" every day
> were students were not allowed into class late. Statistics for the Clark
> County School District suggest that my experience is neither typical nor
> atypical, with a slight edge towards the typical.
> >
> > I perused the textbook for the class. In terms of breadth of content and
> difficulty of content, I would peg it at 7th or 8th grade level, not
> juniors and seniors and certainly not for college credit.
> >
> > The thought of these students 'taking over' in 20 years makes me root
> for AI and the Singularity.
> >
> > just moaning and whining
> > davew
> >
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[FRIAM] the fires

[Gillian Densmore]

Anyone know what went wrong for the timing of the control burns? And better
what will be done to prevent "oops" from happening again?

Also is everyone ok?
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Re: [FRIAM] the fires

[Gillian Densmore]

Ok that is pretty af. !

On Thu, May 5, 2022 at 7:41 AM cody dooderson  wrote:

> Blame aside, there was a really cool time lapse of atmospheric layers from
> NOAA recently. It shows smoke blowing east while a dust storm moves south.
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CdEFRU_gAnG/?hl=en
>
> On Wed, May 4, 2022, 8:07 PM Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>> Anyone know what went wrong for the timing of the control burns? And
>> better what will be done to prevent "oops" from happening again?
>>
>> Also is everyone ok?
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[FRIAM] We know what blackholes soundlike now

[Gillian Densmore]

https://scitechdaily.com/hear-what-a-black-hole-sounds-like-new-nasa-black-hole-sonifications-with-a-remix/

So as if they weren't trippy af already. We know what they sound like.

What about whiteholes?  After re-re-watch red-dwarf.  I've been curious if
those are actually a thing, or just a theoretical outcome of a lot space
becoming super dense.

https://jila.colorado.edu/~ajsh/bh/schww.html
https://www.space.com/white-holes.html

how would they even get created? I have thought that it might take specific
circumstances. Maybe 2 or more blackholes pulling space and time in two (or
more) different directions to the point where what's in the middle bends
outward at ludicicrous speed. Leady to what ever could normally pass
between this cluster to get yeeted back in to space somehow.
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Re: [FRIAM] This is a trip, green tea and colds

[Gillian Densmore]

Caspien also is not all that gentle on your system while something like
sudafed, or nyquil and or dayquil  are a little gentler I think they have
something in their for decongestion..

On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 9:07 AM glen  wrote:

> Although capsaicin seems to have a reputation for anti-inflammatory
> effects, my guess is it only achieves 2 things for colds/flus: 1) temporary
> decongestion and 2) tiring out your cells so they can't go back to
> generating stuff (mucous, inflammatory response, etc.). More sane
> decongestants aren't as hard on your cells. So it's possible you'll get
> longer, but still temporary, relief from capsaicin. But my guess isn't
> justified. So grain of salt and all.
>
> And you get desensitized to peppers pretty quick, I think. So eating ghost
> pepper 3 times a day ain't really gonna help. But, hey, if you enjoy it, do
> it.
>
>
> On 8/20/22 20:48, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> > https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30037024/ <
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30037024/>
> >
> > Looked that because of a very mild one. It's a risk from one of the
> meds.(trazadone)
> > My...80+/- question now is: is their actually anything to enjoying the
> occasionally   ridiculously spiced bowl of chilled to help? or is that just
> because of the pepper buzz takes your mind off mild aches from
> colds?Ridiculously  hot as in Jalapaneos with some Ghostpepper...
> tasty-once you, know, you get past the 7infernos of  hades while also
> asking, why on earth youlike eating a fireball coated in chilli stuff.
> >
> > Pubmed was all like: all you buddy. I seriously doubted forums. But
> Jalapenos have a lot vitamin C- but does that even do anything though??樂
> oO ?
> >
>
> --
> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>
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Re: [FRIAM] computer monitor

[Gillian Densmore]

Thank you again steve! be sure to let us know if you have any questions,
and if you'd  help with gas.

On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 5:48 PM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> That'd be fantastic! thank you very much!
>
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 5:23 PM Steve Smith  wrote:
>
>> Gil -
>>
>> I have both e-mails and will ping you next time I expect to come to town
>> and make a plan to drop off then... maybe as early as next Tuesday?
>>
>> - Steve
>> On 8/25/22 1:42 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote:
>>
>> Wowie zowie  thank you so much steve! that would be fantastic!
>> Ironically CRTs  were kind of a head of their time. LEDs have run into a
>> wall with black colors of all things that the GPU has to work hard to
>> figure out where to place. Tech YouTubers talk about it something to do
>> with color space that you or the other steve probably know a lot more how
>> that works then I do. and yeah I'm also sometimes not as nice to my
>> electronics as I really should be.
>> Do you have either my or Owens email? that way we figure out how make
>> arrangements for pickups or drop offs.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 1:28 PM Steve Smith  wrote:
>>
>>> Gil -
>>>
>>> I have gone past the use of external computer monitors in my own
>>> life/work and have a total of 3 re-homeable units I could offer you.   I
>>> don't have the specs on them in front of me, and I can't guarantee their
>>> ruggedness, though I am not easy on most of my gear and I have not damaged
>>> any of these beyond some surface scratches.
>>>
>>> I would be happy (ecstatic?) to gift forward one or more of them to you,
>>> even it you go through them in a year or two's time the same way the others
>>> gave out, as long as you made some effort to push them forward into the
>>> appropriate recycling stream (not even sure where old LCD monitors go to
>>> rot/recycle)?
>>>
>>> A decade or more ago I used to cringe everytime I would see another CRT
>>> TV or Monitor in an arroyo "shot up" by my neighbors it has been years
>>> since I saw a fresh one...  and to think we all used to sit inches (feet)
>>> in front of them staring at them all day (esp. for those boomers who were
>>> babysat as children by Captain Kangaroo and his ilk) as a high-energy
>>> electron beam was directed straight toward their third-eye, depending on
>>> the layer of phosphors (I don't know how carcinogenic those where when
>>> released during wild target practice sessions) and *leaded* glass to
>>> protect our precious little neuronal mass known as our brain.   Oh well,
>>> most of us are "OK" and of course, it may well be the *idea* flux coming
>>> out of them that was the most dangerous.
>>>
>>> https://thehappyphilosopher.com/kill-your-television
>>>
>>>
>>> Lemme know!
>>>
>>>  - Steve
>>> On 8/25/22 12:49 PM, glen wrote:
>>>
>>> https://www.eizorugged.com/products/rugged-monitors/
>>>
>>> On 8/25/22 11:32, Gillian Densmore wrote:
>>>
>>> I have no had 3 hp monitors crack in the same way. Basically something
>>> about how I get behind it. Usually to reboot my stupid cable modem, the the
>>> dam things left, or right side cracks.
>>> I think the problem is between my size and the thin fragility of it is
>>> the problem. Best hunch I have so far.
>>> Where do I find the good and propper computer monitors that ignore this
>>> asinine industry delusion that paper thin=good?
>>> Do really have to go as far back to CRTs to something that doesn't fall
>>> over from just a fart? or is their something more in at least this decade
>>> that's not a thin fragile POS?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>> archives:  5/2017 thru present
>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
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>>>
>>
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>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> to (

Re: [FRIAM] Urgent care with short wait?

[Gillian Densmore]

Presbyterian is awful. But the ride insisted. And so far I'm mortified at
how aful the treatment is. A quack  giving me meds that I had a bad
reaction to.  After standing outside for a 30 minutes.. just get we don't
know what to do. And oh look at the time. Just sloppy. And terrible work.

On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 2:18 PM Carl Tollander  wrote:

> CVS at Cerrillos and Siler has a walk-in clinic .
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 1:34 PM Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>> [redacted]!!
>> In short was prescribed two kinds of antibiotics but have a bad reaction
>> a cream one. ALas my doctor is busy. And Presby has no Appointements.
>> Where all would have a short wait?
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[FRIAM] Urgent care with short wait?

[Gillian Densmore]

[redacted]!!
In short was prescribed two kinds of antibiotics but have a bad reaction a
cream one. ALas my doctor is busy. And Presby has no Appointements.
Where all would have a short wait?
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Re: [FRIAM] Urgent care with short wait?

[Gillian Densmore]

Thanks Carl. Will go their next time. Presby was just bad.



On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 4:06 PM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> Presbyterian is awful. But the ride insisted. And so far I'm mortified at
> how aful the treatment is. A quack  giving me meds that I had a bad
> reaction to.  After standing outside for a 30 minutes.. just get we don't
> know what to do. And oh look at the time. Just sloppy. And terrible work.
>
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 2:18 PM Carl Tollander  wrote:
>
>> CVS at Cerrillos and Siler has a walk-in clinic .
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 1:34 PM Gillian Densmore 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> [redacted]!!
>>> In short was prescribed two kinds of antibiotics but have a bad reaction
>>> a cream one. ALas my doctor is busy. And Presby has no Appointements.
>>> Where all would have a short wait?
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>> archives:  5/2017 thru present
>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>
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[FRIAM] wtf I thought nuclear weapons was banned since...forever

[Gillian Densmore]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/27/europe/russia-blocks-un-nuclear-disarmament-treaty-intl-hnk/index.html

Am I going loony, I had thought after ultra conservatives of different
interpretation in communism had tried to murder (1991 coup attempt)
Gorbachev, and his part in draging russin into the Nuclear Weapons Ban and
Test ban treaties that was that. Though was a we widdle youngling then I do
clearly recall Gorby being all like: Un Embassy has good and poison free
food, the coffees also good. and then latter: well Russia you'll stop being
dicks about nukes and like it we won't make more are taking apart what we
do have...
so um why is this a thing?

So um cans someone please ELi5 wtf is going on with  a new nuclear ban and
disarm. treaty and how was russia even allowed to cock block it?  is Putin
really as insane as to attempt to nuke Ukrain? (probably). And  is this
just him being a dick to pout and posture? Hell do they even anything  that
can move those things? they're not exactly light.

Sigh. To russia: trolling about a nuclear winter or at least a MAD scenario
just because Zelenskyy  doesn't like being murdered in his sleep KGB style
doesn't make it ok to not  decide nukes== f'n stupid, can still make bombs.
just not make a few Tsar Bombas because the rest of us want to live past
the next few years.
-ME for one
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[FRIAM] And why isn't the DOJ also fixing to do the same to comcast?

[Gillian Densmore]

Apple anti-trust lawsuit...mmm this feels like something from a mirror
universe...

https://www.cultofmac.com/789040/doj-takes-a-step-closer-to-apple-antitrust-suit/?utm_source=twitter


So seriously Comcast and it's 20k names in different regions, and the--oh
shoot, industry decision not to compete has created a monopoly their as
well. IAMNAL so I don't get why go at apple and not the cable internet
people as well.
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[FRIAM] more blackhole nightmare fuel

[Gillian Densmore]

https://twitter.com/NASAExoplanets/status/1561442514078314496?utm_campaign=wp_todays_worldview_medium=email_source=newsletter=nl_todayworld


I'm not sure if this super duper cool. Or hilariously terrifying.  I also
feel like I this, or something like it was floating around before.
And now i'm off to find some xanax so that I don't have nightmares, from
the sound of a blackhole trolling us.
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Re: [FRIAM] computer monitor

[Gillian Densmore]

That'd be fantastic! thank you very much!

On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 5:23 PM Steve Smith  wrote:

> Gil -
>
> I have both e-mails and will ping you next time I expect to come to town
> and make a plan to drop off then... maybe as early as next Tuesday?
>
> - Steve
> On 8/25/22 1:42 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote:
>
> Wowie zowie  thank you so much steve! that would be fantastic!
> Ironically CRTs  were kind of a head of their time. LEDs have run into a
> wall with black colors of all things that the GPU has to work hard to
> figure out where to place. Tech YouTubers talk about it something to do
> with color space that you or the other steve probably know a lot more how
> that works then I do. and yeah I'm also sometimes not as nice to my
> electronics as I really should be.
> Do you have either my or Owens email? that way we figure out how make
> arrangements for pickups or drop offs.
>
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 1:28 PM Steve Smith  wrote:
>
>> Gil -
>>
>> I have gone past the use of external computer monitors in my own
>> life/work and have a total of 3 re-homeable units I could offer you.   I
>> don't have the specs on them in front of me, and I can't guarantee their
>> ruggedness, though I am not easy on most of my gear and I have not damaged
>> any of these beyond some surface scratches.
>>
>> I would be happy (ecstatic?) to gift forward one or more of them to you,
>> even it you go through them in a year or two's time the same way the others
>> gave out, as long as you made some effort to push them forward into the
>> appropriate recycling stream (not even sure where old LCD monitors go to
>> rot/recycle)?
>>
>> A decade or more ago I used to cringe everytime I would see another CRT
>> TV or Monitor in an arroyo "shot up" by my neighbors it has been years
>> since I saw a fresh one...  and to think we all used to sit inches (feet)
>> in front of them staring at them all day (esp. for those boomers who were
>> babysat as children by Captain Kangaroo and his ilk) as a high-energy
>> electron beam was directed straight toward their third-eye, depending on
>> the layer of phosphors (I don't know how carcinogenic those where when
>> released during wild target practice sessions) and *leaded* glass to
>> protect our precious little neuronal mass known as our brain.   Oh well,
>> most of us are "OK" and of course, it may well be the *idea* flux coming
>> out of them that was the most dangerous.
>>
>> https://thehappyphilosopher.com/kill-your-television
>>
>>
>> Lemme know!
>>
>>  - Steve
>> On 8/25/22 12:49 PM, glen wrote:
>>
>> https://www.eizorugged.com/products/rugged-monitors/
>>
>> On 8/25/22 11:32, Gillian Densmore wrote:
>>
>> I have no had 3 hp monitors crack in the same way. Basically something
>> about how I get behind it. Usually to reboot my stupid cable modem, the the
>> dam things left, or right side cracks.
>> I think the problem is between my size and the thin fragility of it is
>> the problem. Best hunch I have so far.
>> Where do I find the good and propper computer monitors that ignore this
>> asinine industry delusion that paper thin=good?
>> Do really have to go as far back to CRTs to something that doesn't fall
>> over from just a fart? or is their something more in at least this decade
>> that's not a thin fragile POS?
>>
>>
>>
>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>> archives:  5/2017 thru present
>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>
>
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[FRIAM] computer monitor

[Gillian Densmore]

I have no had 3 hp monitors crack in the same way. Basically something
about how I get behind it. Usually to reboot my stupid cable modem, the the
dam things left, or right side cracks.
I think the problem is between my size and the thin fragility of it is the
problem. Best hunch I have so far.
Where do I find the good and propper computer monitors that ignore this
asinine industry delusion that paper thin=good?
Do really have to go as far back to CRTs to something that doesn't fall
over from just a fart? or is their something more in at least this decade
that's not a thin fragile POS?
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
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Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom 
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Re: [FRIAM] computer monitor

[Gillian Densmore]

Wowie zowie  thank you so much steve! that would be fantastic!
Ironically CRTs  were kind of a head of their time. LEDs have run into a
wall with black colors of all things that the GPU has to work hard to
figure out where to place. Tech YouTubers talk about it something to do
with color space that you or the other steve probably know a lot more how
that works then I do. and yeah I'm also sometimes not as nice to my
electronics as I really should be.
Do you have either my or Owens email? that way we figure out how make
arrangements for pickups or drop offs.

On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 1:28 PM Steve Smith  wrote:

> Gil -
>
> I have gone past the use of external computer monitors in my own life/work
> and have a total of 3 re-homeable units I could offer you.   I don't have
> the specs on them in front of me, and I can't guarantee their ruggedness,
> though I am not easy on most of my gear and I have not damaged any of these
> beyond some surface scratches.
>
> I would be happy (ecstatic?) to gift forward one or more of them to you,
> even it you go through them in a year or two's time the same way the others
> gave out, as long as you made some effort to push them forward into the
> appropriate recycling stream (not even sure where old LCD monitors go to
> rot/recycle)?
>
> A decade or more ago I used to cringe everytime I would see another CRT TV
> or Monitor in an arroyo "shot up" by my neighbors it has been years
> since I saw a fresh one...  and to think we all used to sit inches (feet)
> in front of them staring at them all day (esp. for those boomers who were
> babysat as children by Captain Kangaroo and his ilk) as a high-energy
> electron beam was directed straight toward their third-eye, depending on
> the layer of phosphors (I don't know how carcinogenic those where when
> released during wild target practice sessions) and *leaded* glass to
> protect our precious little neuronal mass known as our brain.   Oh well,
> most of us are "OK" and of course, it may well be the *idea* flux coming
> out of them that was the most dangerous.
>
> https://thehappyphilosopher.com/kill-your-television
>
>
> Lemme know!
>
>  - Steve
> On 8/25/22 12:49 PM, glen wrote:
>
> https://www.eizorugged.com/products/rugged-monitors/
>
> On 8/25/22 11:32, Gillian Densmore wrote:
>
> I have no had 3 hp monitors crack in the same way. Basically something
> about how I get behind it. Usually to reboot my stupid cable modem, the the
> dam things left, or right side cracks.
> I think the problem is between my size and the thin fragility of it is the
> problem. Best hunch I have so far.
> Where do I find the good and propper computer monitors that ignore this
> asinine industry delusion that paper thin=good?
> Do really have to go as far back to CRTs to something that doesn't fall
> over from just a fart? or is their something more in at least this decade
> that's not a thin fragile POS?
>
>
>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:  5/2017 thru present
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>
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Re: [FRIAM] wtf I thought nuclear weapons was banned since...forever

[Gillian Densmore]

Huh? shame...no just curious.
I was just asking how and why agreeing not use nukes was agreed on not to
go there. In my head I was thinking; huh, wait a second.  Didn't this get
adressed several decades ago for the NPT( Nuclear non
prolification Treaty?).
Is russia and india posturing to agree that nukes are just bad?


On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 12:09 AM Marcus Daniels 
wrote:

> How do you propose dissuading countries from building these weapons?
> Shaming them on mailing lists?
>
> On Aug 27, 2022, at 3:25 PM, Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/27/europe/russia-blocks-un-nuclear-disarmament-treaty-intl-hnk/index.html
>
> Am I going loony, I had thought after ultra conservatives of different
> interpretation in communism had tried to murder (1991 coup attempt)
> Gorbachev, and his part in draging russin into the Nuclear Weapons Ban and
> Test ban treaties that was that. Though was a we widdle youngling then I do
> clearly recall Gorby being all like: Un Embassy has good and poison free
> food, the coffees also good. and then latter: well Russia you'll stop being
> dicks about nukes and like it we won't make more are taking apart what we
> do have...
> so um why is this a thing?
>
> So um cans someone please ELi5 wtf is going on with  a new nuclear ban and
> disarm. treaty and how was russia even allowed to cock block it?  is Putin
> really as insane as to attempt to nuke Ukrain? (probably). And  is this
> just him being a dick to pout and posture? Hell do they even anything  that
> can move those things? they're not exactly light.
>
> Sigh. To russia: trolling about a nuclear winter or at least a MAD
> scenario just because Zelenskyy  doesn't like being murdered in his sleep
> KGB style doesn't make it ok to not  decide nukes== f'n stupid, can still
> make bombs. just not make a few Tsar Bombas because the rest of us want to
> live past the next few years.
> -ME for one
>
>
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Re: [FRIAM] I'll never be Gauss, I'll never an Eno...

[Gillian Densmore]

yes but
Do you Cars? 

Or did are you blinded with science? 

And now for the news. 

On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 2:09 PM Jon Zingale  wrote:

> I'll only ever be a Gary Numan
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nJu5OaN40o_channel=pierre291772
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Re: [FRIAM] fwd" Russia's 'Oculus' to use AI to scan sites for banned information

[Gillian Densmore]

Something something 20 minutes into the future and something about a weird
cyberpunk and steampunkesk  world here.


On Sat, Aug 20, 2022 at 4:15 PM Tom Johnson  wrote:

> I wonder where that TV woman is now.
> TJ
>
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2022 at 2:45 PM David Eric Smith 
> wrote:
>
>> Somebody, maybe Vice, was interviewing the staff of one of the last
>> broadcast stations (TV Rain?) on the day it was shut down.
>>
>> Late in the interview, while everyone was scurrying to clear things and
>> get out of the building, they asked some wonderful-seeming middle-aged
>> newswoman what she though the future would be.  Her answer, without a
>> blink, was “North Korea.  That is our future.”
>>
>> I remember, at the time, being awed by somebody who looked like any
>> beleaguered housewife but clearly could stare down the barrel of a gun and
>> not flinch, but also thinking “Really?  Can a country as large as Russia
>> achieve a North Korean society?  That seems like something that would only
>> be possible in a very small country propped up by much much larger
>> neighbors who can allow it to become any level of toxic to use it as a
>> buffer state and a source of harassment to opponents that they want to wear
>> down.”
>>
>> But, Russian broadcasters for TV Rain know their own society better than
>> an outsider could (especially one like me, who doesn’t know much of
>> anything).  I wonder how bad they can succeed in making things, or whether
>> the sheer size and unruliness of the society will allow a more effective
>> counter-effort to survive in the cracks and wear down the oppression system
>> to some degree.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 21, 2022, at 2:34 AM, Tom Johnson  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> ===
>> Tom Johnson
>> Inst. for Analytic Journalism
>> Santa Fe, New Mexico
>> 505-577-6482
>> ===
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> From: Peter M. Weiss 
>> Date: Sat, Aug 20, 2022, 9:06 AM
>> Subject: fwd" Russia's 'Oculus' to use AI to scan sites for banned
>> information
>> To: 
>>
>>
>> Subject: Russia's 'Oculus' to use AI to scan sites for banned information
>> Source: BleepingComputer
>>
>> https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/russias-oculus-to-use-ai-to-scan-sites-for-banned-information/
>>
>> Russia’s internet watchdog Roskomnadzor is developing a neural network
>> that will use artificial intelligence to scan websites for prohibited
>> information.
>>
>> Called “Oculus,” the automatic scanner will analyze URLs, images, videos,
>> and chats on websites, forums, social media, and even chat/messenger
>> channels to locate material that should be redacted or taken down.
>>
>> Examples of information targeted by Oculus include homosexuality
>> “propaganda,” instructions on manufacturing weapons or drugs, and
>> misinformation that discredits official state and army sources.
>>
>> The system will also look for calls of mass protests, expressions of
>> disrespect for the state, and even “signs” of extremism and terrorism.
>>
>> The real-time scanning capacity of Oculus will be 200,000 images per day,
>> or about 2.3 images per second, for which the vendor, Eksikyushn RDC LLC,
>> will use 48 servers with powerful GPUs.
>>
>> Oculus will be integrated onto the Unified Analysis Module, a network of
>> monitoring systems currently under development, aiming to give the
>> government a firm grip on controlling information flow.
>> Challenging timeline and risky proposal
>>
>> ...
>>
>> Filed:
>>
>> https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> To unsubscribe from the CARR-L list, click the following link:
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[FRIAM] This is a trip, green tea and colds

[Gillian Densmore]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30037024/

Looked that because of a very mild one. It's a risk from one of the
meds.(trazadone)
My...80+/- question now is: is their actually anything to enjoying the
occasionally   ridiculously spiced bowl of chilled to help? or is that just
because of the pepper buzz takes your mind off mild aches from
colds?Ridiculously  hot as in Jalapaneos with some Ghostpepper...
tasty-once you, know, you get past the 7infernos of  hades while also
asking, why on earth youlike eating a fireball coated in chilli stuff.

Pubmed was all like: all you buddy. I seriously doubted forums. But
Jalapenos have a lot vitamin C- but does that even do anything though??樂
oO ?
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Re: [FRIAM] Wedtech Talk Oct 19: Richard Gabriel, AI, Creativity and the Inkwell Poetry Generator. (hybrid in-person/zoom)

[Gillian Densmore]

Ah found article about the Ai advancement I was thinking about:
https://aibusiness.com/document.asp?doc_id=780874#:~:text=Researchers%20from%20Google%20are%20the,Google%20unveiled%20back%20in%202021
.

Can someone ELi5 how they're doing it? very cool!

On Sun, Oct 16, 2022 at 3:33 PM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> Coolness! Is it only writing? or going to advances in 3D where Ai shows
> some promise to do as well or better than mere mortal humans? Because a
> computes is coming to a practical wall of cost, amount of silicon and chip
> density. Is reaching a practical limit from power draw to to expenses. Ai,
> Tensor Cores, and asynchronous computing clocks at the system and chip
> levels, are looking to need Ai to coordinate things as well as boost power
> and blah blah blah. A fall out of that is Neuronets do weirdly great and
> vastly accelerating compute times in raytracing, and ray marching. I assume
> people on this list can Eli5 to me why.
> I seem to recall somewhat recently, someone showing off how Ai can do some
> amount of 3D modelling. Anyone know anything about that? I think it was a
> proof of concept. Someone from MIT and Nvidia shows how a neuronet if given
> some kind of description did a not to bad job making buildings and some
> limited simulated physics. I don't know anything about the stupendous
> effort that'd go into that though.
> Onestep closer to star trek! LOL, oh c'mon you know we're thinking it. I'm
> just typing it.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2022 at 10:52 AM Stephen Guerin <
> stephen.gue...@simtable.com> wrote:
>
>> Speaker: Richard Gabriel
>> Location: Simtable office
>> Time: Oct 19 1230p
>>
>> will be streamed at https://zoom.redfish.com
>>
>> pizza will be avail for lunch. $5 a slice.
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> From: Steve Smith 
>>
>> My hack at the basics of an announcement for Gabriel/Wetdtech.
>>
>> Our FriAM member-at-large, Jenny Quillen is visiting Santa Fe this week
>> and has Richard Gabriel in tow.   He has agreed to give a WedTech talk this
>> week (10/19) and the nominal topic will be on AI and Creativity, using
>> examples from his Poetry Generator: Inkwell.
>>
>> Some of you know Richard's long and storied history and career much
>> better than I, so I will just drop a few links in here for those who do not:
>>
>> Richard Gabriel's Wikipedia page
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_P._Gabriel>
>>
>> Personal Website: Dreamsongs <https://dreamsongs.com/>
>>
>> Inkwell <https://dreamsongs.com/Files/InkWell.pdf>
>>
>> and a scholarly reflection on The Nature of Poetic Order
>> <http://www.natureoforder.com/library/nature-of-poetic-order.pdf> which
>> reflects on many of the ideas from Christopher Alexander's Opus: the Nature
>> of Order <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nature_of_Order> in the
>> context of poetry, what makes it work, and what makes it fail.  Among many
>> other things, Gabriel has been a significant figure in the Pattern's
>> community.
>>
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Re: [FRIAM] Wedtech Talk Oct 19: Richard Gabriel, AI, Creativity and the Inkwell Poetry Generator. (hybrid in-person/zoom)

[Gillian Densmore]

Coolness! Is it only writing? or going to advances in 3D where Ai shows
some promise to do as well or better than mere mortal humans? Because a
computes is coming to a practical wall of cost, amount of silicon and chip
density. Is reaching a practical limit from power draw to to expenses. Ai,
Tensor Cores, and asynchronous computing clocks at the system and chip
levels, are looking to need Ai to coordinate things as well as boost power
and blah blah blah. A fall out of that is Neuronets do weirdly great and
vastly accelerating compute times in raytracing, and ray marching. I assume
people on this list can Eli5 to me why.
I seem to recall somewhat recently, someone showing off how Ai can do some
amount of 3D modelling. Anyone know anything about that? I think it was a
proof of concept. Someone from MIT and Nvidia shows how a neuronet if given
some kind of description did a not to bad job making buildings and some
limited simulated physics. I don't know anything about the stupendous
effort that'd go into that though.
Onestep closer to star trek! LOL, oh c'mon you know we're thinking it. I'm
just typing it.


On Sun, Oct 16, 2022 at 10:52 AM Stephen Guerin 
wrote:

> Speaker: Richard Gabriel
> Location: Simtable office
> Time: Oct 19 1230p
>
> will be streamed at https://zoom.redfish.com
>
> pizza will be avail for lunch. $5 a slice.
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Steve Smith 
>
> My hack at the basics of an announcement for Gabriel/Wetdtech.
>
> Our FriAM member-at-large, Jenny Quillen is visiting Santa Fe this week
> and has Richard Gabriel in tow.   He has agreed to give a WedTech talk this
> week (10/19) and the nominal topic will be on AI and Creativity, using
> examples from his Poetry Generator: Inkwell.
>
> Some of you know Richard's long and storied history and career much better
> than I, so I will just drop a few links in here for those who do not:
>
> Richard Gabriel's Wikipedia page
> 
>
> Personal Website: Dreamsongs 
>
> Inkwell 
>
> and a scholarly reflection on The Nature of Poetic Order
>  which
> reflects on many of the ideas from Christopher Alexander's Opus: the Nature
> of Order  in the
> context of poetry, what makes it work, and what makes it fail.  Among many
> other things, Gabriel has been a significant figure in the Pattern's
> community.
>
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[FRIAM] culinary Complexity question

[Gillian Densmore]

I suspect because...fall. Been enjoying somewhat spicey food. Question is
what, if any, science is their to green chile(as in the spice, like
Jalapeno, or what ever). That brings out flavoring. I get that it adds
dimension, ala MSG and Salts. But hadn't thought about: what in particular
it is about peppers and spices science that'd do that. I gather
that  Capsaicin found in peppers basically wakes the tongue up. Before
introducing the heat. But ok so what about the rest? is it more flavoring
science? kind of like how fudge or chocolate brings something to icecream?
Just me waxing poetic while wondering why i had seconds of a dense dish.
And also wondering what new state of matter i turned into. I feel as though
I gained several stones and need forklift to move now.
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Re: [FRIAM] culinary Complexity question

[Gillian Densmore]

Oh neet. I didn't know their's more than one kind of capsaicin. I wonder if
part of the extra complexity for flavoring is somehow because of
endorphins. Plus having washed it down with beer (and milk if that's your
thing).  Then it'd become a question of what beer is best to battle the
fireball of chilli? I'm thinking a good belgium or IPA  (RIP second street)
would be solidly in the top 10 for flavor and alcohol.

On Mon, Oct 17, 2022 at 1:24 AM Jochen Fromm  wrote:

> This article explains why spicy food tastes the way it does and why it
> burns so much: it activates the receptors for heat and pain.
>
> https://www.compoundchem.com/2014/01/15/why-chilli-peppers-are-spicy-the-chemistry-of-a-chilli/
>
> -J.
>
>
>  Original message ----
> From: Gillian Densmore 
> Date: 10/17/22 3:06 AM (GMT+01:00)
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>
> Subject: [FRIAM] culinary Complexity question
>
> I suspect because...fall. Been enjoying somewhat spicey food. Question is
> what, if any, science is their to green chile(as in the spice, like
> Jalapeno, or what ever). That brings out flavoring. I get that it adds
> dimension, ala MSG and Salts. But hadn't thought about: what in particular
> it is about peppers and spices science that'd do that. I gather
> that  Capsaicin found in peppers basically wakes the tongue up. Before
> introducing the heat. But ok so what about the rest? is it more flavoring
> science? kind of like how fudge or chocolate brings something to icecream?
> Just me waxing poetic while wondering why i had seconds of a dense dish.
> And also wondering what new state of matter i turned into. I feel as though
> I gained several stones and need forklift to move now.
>
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Re: [FRIAM] My Work On Earth Is Not Yet Done

[Gillian Densmore]

hmmm so what does that about us when something is a royal PIT ?  is
the   then where your brain is located then? if so might explain a few
things. :P thank you, thank you. I'll see my self out.

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 1:44 PM  wrote:

> A highly regarded pain expert, Dr. Carmen Green, talking about chronic
> pain on the pod cast of an equally highly regarded neurosurgeon, Dr.
> Sanjay Gupta:
>
>
>
> *“… pain is also perceived in the brain, so it’s not only in your head.”*
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
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Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

[Gillian Densmore]

*list of things Cybermen do to make even the Dr yell
RN! and book  it to the TARDIS as well here*


On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 6:35 PM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> *terminator soundtrack here*
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 5:55 PM Prof David West 
> wrote:
>
>> Maybe lack of emotion, but ability to 'fake it' by repeating what it
>> read a being with that emotion would say only proves the AI is a sociopath
>> or psychopath.
>>
>> davew
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, at 4:44 PM, Russ Abbott wrote:
>>
>> When Blake Lemoine claimed that LaMDA was conscious, it struck me that
>> one way to test that would be to determine whether one could evoke an
>> emotional response from it.  You can't cause it physical pain since it
>> doesn't have sense organs. But, one could ask it if it cares about
>> anything. If so, threaten to harm whatever it is it cares about and see how
>> it responds. A nice feature of this test, or something similar, is that you
>> wouldn't tell it what the reasonable emotional responses might be.
>> Otherwise, it could simply repeat what it read a being with that emotion
>> would say.  One might argue that emotion is not a necessary element of
>> consciousness, but I think a being without emotion would be at best a pale
>> version of consciousness.
>>
>> -- Russ Abbott
>> Professor Emeritus, Computer Science
>> California State University, Los Angeles
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 2:14 PM Prof David West 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I an concurrently reading, *Nineteen Ways of Looking at Consciousness*,
>> by Patrick House and *Mountain in the Sea*, by Ray Nayler. The latter is
>> fiction. (The former, because it deals with consciousness may also be
>> fiction, but it purports to be neuro-scientific / philosophical.)
>>
>> The novel is about Octopi and AI and an android, plus humans and
>> juxtaposes ideas about consciousness in comparison and contrast. A lot of
>> fun.
>>
>> Both books pose some interesting questions and both support glen's
>> advocacy of a typology.
>>
>> davew
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, at 1:26 PM, glen wrote:
>> > There are many different measures of *types* of consciousness. But
>> > without specifying the type, such questions are not even philosophical.
>> > They're nonsense.
>> >
>> > For example, the test of whether one can recognize one's image in a
>> > mirror couldn't be performed by a chatbot. But it is one of the
>> > measures of consciousness. Another type of test would be those that
>> > measure conscious state before, during, and after anesthesia. Again,
>> > that wouldn't work the same for a chatbot. But both aggregate measures
>> > like EEG and fMRI connectomes might have analogs in tracing for
>> > algorithms like ANNs. If we could simply decide "Yes, *that* chatbot is
>> > what we're going to call conscious and, therefore, the traced patterns
>> > it exhibits in the profiler are the correlates for chatbot
>> > consciousness." Then we'd have a trace-based test to perform on other
>> > chatbots *with similar computational structure*.
>> >
>> > Hell, the cops have their tests for consciousness executed at drunk
>> > driving checkpoints. Look up and touch your nose. Recite the alphabet
>> > backwards. Etc. These are tests for types of consciousness. Of course,
>> > I feel sure there are people who'd like to move the goal posts and
>> > claim "That's not Consciousness with a big C." Pffft. No typology ⇒ no
>> > science. So if someone can't list off a few distinct types of
>> > consciousness, then it's not even philosophy.
>> >
>> > On 10/18/22 13:12, Jochen Fromm wrote:
>> >> Paul Buchheit asked on Twitter
>> >> https://twitter.com/paultoo/status/1582455708041113600
>> >>
>> >> "Is consciousness measurable, or is it just a philosophical concept?
>> If an AI claims to be conscious, how do we know that it's not simply
>> faking/imitating consciousness? Is there something that I could challenge
>> it with to prove/disprove consciousness?"
>> >>
>> >> What do you think? Interesting question.
>> >>
>> >> -J.
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>> >
>> > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

[Gillian Densmore]

*terminator soundtrack here*

On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 5:55 PM Prof David West 
wrote:

> Maybe lack of emotion, but ability to 'fake it' by repeating what it read
> a being with that emotion would say only proves the AI is a sociopath or
> psychopath.
>
> davew
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, at 4:44 PM, Russ Abbott wrote:
>
> When Blake Lemoine claimed that LaMDA was conscious, it struck me that
> one way to test that would be to determine whether one could evoke an
> emotional response from it.  You can't cause it physical pain since it
> doesn't have sense organs. But, one could ask it if it cares about
> anything. If so, threaten to harm whatever it is it cares about and see how
> it responds. A nice feature of this test, or something similar, is that you
> wouldn't tell it what the reasonable emotional responses might be.
> Otherwise, it could simply repeat what it read a being with that emotion
> would say.  One might argue that emotion is not a necessary element of
> consciousness, but I think a being without emotion would be at best a pale
> version of consciousness.
>
> -- Russ Abbott
> Professor Emeritus, Computer Science
> California State University, Los Angeles
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 2:14 PM Prof David West 
> wrote:
>
>
> I an concurrently reading, *Nineteen Ways of Looking at Consciousness*,
> by Patrick House and *Mountain in the Sea*, by Ray Nayler. The latter is
> fiction. (The former, because it deals with consciousness may also be
> fiction, but it purports to be neuro-scientific / philosophical.)
>
> The novel is about Octopi and AI and an android, plus humans and
> juxtaposes ideas about consciousness in comparison and contrast. A lot of
> fun.
>
> Both books pose some interesting questions and both support glen's
> advocacy of a typology.
>
> davew
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, at 1:26 PM, glen wrote:
> > There are many different measures of *types* of consciousness. But
> > without specifying the type, such questions are not even philosophical.
> > They're nonsense.
> >
> > For example, the test of whether one can recognize one's image in a
> > mirror couldn't be performed by a chatbot. But it is one of the
> > measures of consciousness. Another type of test would be those that
> > measure conscious state before, during, and after anesthesia. Again,
> > that wouldn't work the same for a chatbot. But both aggregate measures
> > like EEG and fMRI connectomes might have analogs in tracing for
> > algorithms like ANNs. If we could simply decide "Yes, *that* chatbot is
> > what we're going to call conscious and, therefore, the traced patterns
> > it exhibits in the profiler are the correlates for chatbot
> > consciousness." Then we'd have a trace-based test to perform on other
> > chatbots *with similar computational structure*.
> >
> > Hell, the cops have their tests for consciousness executed at drunk
> > driving checkpoints. Look up and touch your nose. Recite the alphabet
> > backwards. Etc. These are tests for types of consciousness. Of course,
> > I feel sure there are people who'd like to move the goal posts and
> > claim "That's not Consciousness with a big C." Pffft. No typology ⇒ no
> > science. So if someone can't list off a few distinct types of
> > consciousness, then it's not even philosophy.
> >
> > On 10/18/22 13:12, Jochen Fromm wrote:
> >> Paul Buchheit asked on Twitter
> >> https://twitter.com/paultoo/status/1582455708041113600
> >>
> >> "Is consciousness measurable, or is it just a philosophical concept? If
> an AI claims to be conscious, how do we know that it's not simply
> faking/imitating consciousness? Is there something that I could challenge
> it with to prove/disprove consciousness?"
> >>
> >> What do you think? Interesting question.
> >>
> >> -J.
> >
> >
> > --
> > ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
> >
> > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
> > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> > archives:  5/2017 thru present
> > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
> >   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:  5/2017 thru present
> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> 

Re: [FRIAM] Is consciousness measurable?

[Gillian Densmore]

Umm fun fact: the reason so much Ai development uses female models first is
because of a much easier timer 'reading' the Ai's emotions.  Yeah yeah.
back in the day geeks being single males, was why. Now it turns out it's
much easier to predict and model female ai's . Male Ai's for what ever
reason, tend to get hostile, moody, and unpredictable quickly. I have no
idea why. Purely as a measuring stick for advances of  consciousness. those
kinds of things was when we knew we were close to neuro nets with at least
somewhat quantifiable spooky programing and some measuring stick for amount
of  consciousness. I have no idea how, or why that happened.
People that know vastly more about the field of Ai hopefully do know what
all the above tends to be true.


On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 11:16 AM Steve Smith  wrote:

>
> On 10/18/22 10:21 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>
>
> A deep learning system set up for next sentence prediction, one that
> consumed gigabytes of literature, would learn to mimic emotions as
> expressed in writing.   It would likely have mappings of context and events
> to plausible emotional descriptions.   It would have latent encodings about
> the same kinds of things that a person would care about, if exposed to the
> same information.   It might well have latent states for fear and love and
> such.   My conclusion would be that emotions are not to be taken so
> seriously.
>
> In the early days of N-gram (early for me, early also because CPU/Storage
> had gotten cheap enough for large corpii) analysis I was impressed with how
> prophetic something *that* simple could be was.   Today's
> spell-correction/suggestion etc. stuff is eerie (uncanny?) to me.   A few
> years ago I wouldn't have imagined that convincing "next sentence
> prediction" was imminent, but now I'm ready to expect it any second.
> Similar with body-language prediction as a corollary to this *and* to
> automated driving...
>
> In a couple of hours, Dick Gabriel will be giving his talk at SimTable on
> his Poetry Generator Inkwell, which I have had my doubts about in
> principle.   His scholarly essay on the topic The Nature of Poetic Order
> <http://www.natureoforder.com/library/nature-of-poetic-order.pdf> is too
> large (100 pages) and dense for me to have quaffed in the time available,
> but the bits I *have* been able to take in are very promising as one (of
> many possible?) perspectives on higher order semantic analysis of texts.
>
> I don't think writing or analyzing poetry is necessarily anything like the
> pinnacle of conscious processing, but it is probably an
> important/interesting edge/corner case.
>
> I'm still processing your concluding statement "emotions are not to be
> taken so seriously".   I watch my young puppy/kitty growing up together and
> virtually *all* I can parse from their interactions with one another, their
> people and their physical enviornment IS emotional, and they either take it
> all very seriously or not at all?
>
>
> On Oct 18, 2022, at 5:36 PM, Gillian Densmore 
>  wrote:
>
> 
> *terminator soundtrack here*
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 5:55 PM Prof David West 
> wrote:
>
>> Maybe lack of emotion, but ability to 'fake it' by repeating what it
>> read a being with that emotion would say only proves the AI is a sociopath
>> or psychopath.
>>
>> davew
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, at 4:44 PM, Russ Abbott wrote:
>>
>> When Blake Lemoine claimed that LaMDA was conscious, it struck me that
>> one way to test that would be to determine whether one could evoke an
>> emotional response from it.  You can't cause it physical pain since it
>> doesn't have sense organs. But, one could ask it if it cares about
>> anything. If so, threaten to harm whatever it is it cares about and see how
>> it responds. A nice feature of this test, or something similar, is that you
>> wouldn't tell it what the reasonable emotional responses might be.
>> Otherwise, it could simply repeat what it read a being with that emotion
>> would say.  One might argue that emotion is not a necessary element of
>> consciousness, but I think a being without emotion would be at best a pale
>> version of consciousness.
>>
>> -- Russ Abbott
>> Professor Emeritus, Computer Science
>> California State University, Los Angeles
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 2:14 PM Prof David West 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I an concurrently reading, *Nineteen Ways of Looking at Consciousness*,
>> by Patrick House and *Mountain in the Sea*, by Ray Nayler. The latter is
>> fiction. (The former, because it deals with consciousness may also be
>> fiction, but it purports to be neuro-scientific

Re: [FRIAM] cable modem?

[Gillian Densmore]

What's folks experience with all in one WiFi+modem? I ask because nighthawk
has a bunch of refurbed modems (prefer refurbed just to reduce waste). But
if it's actually a legit better idea to go wifi and modem for whatever
reasons, what're good wifirouters then?

On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 12:34 PM Roger Critchlow  wrote:

> wirecutter says motorola MB7621 for 600Mb plans, netgear CM500 for up to
> 300Mb plans, and motorola MB8600 for gigabit plans.
>
> I use the 600Mb recommended modem for my 300Mb comcast service on the
> theory that I get to use channels which 300Mb modems cannot see, so I have
> less resource contention interference, but I've never tried to verify that.
>
> -- rec --
>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 11:27 AM Tom Johnson 
> wrote:
>
>> If you're using Xfinity, always buy.  They rent a very good modem, but
>> the cost/benefit ratio is a ripoff.  That said, Xfinity itself recommends a
>> good Motorola modem available at Best Buy.  I have one.  It's been fine.
>> Tom
>>
>> ===
>> Tom Johnson
>> Inst. for Analytic Journalism
>> Santa Fe, New Mexico
>> 505-577-6482
>> ===
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022, 7:23 AM Gillian Densmore 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, the  TLDR is this:
>>> -Needed a new cable modem because the one I have got flakey, temporarily
>>> leasing one.
>>> -What all do people suggest these days: rent or own?
>>> -If then: own: Who's good now?
>>> -If: Rent: any reasoning standout?
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>> Back to debating measuring consciousness. I think that is measured in
>>> the amount of  coffee consumed. I'll test that theory while black
>>> caffeinated liquid fills my Karrif.
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>> archives:  5/2017 thru present
>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>
>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>> archives:  5/2017 thru present
>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:  5/2017 thru present
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>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom 
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to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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Re: [FRIAM] Owen Densmore, father of object-oriented postcript in NeWS object.ps, desktop publishing and relation to NEXT [was: Re: naive question]

[Gillian Densmore]

Here's a fun speculative question to: how different would the computing
landscape look now: if apple dug clones, and decided they were worth it?
and what if BeOS did become apples new OS?--I feel like I aged myself.

On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:50 AM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> IIRC very badly as was MacOS was held back by...games of all things. But
> IIRC Adobe was quickly onto apples because picky people liked how it
> handled colours. That is compared to Windows 3.1 and 94(?) lol and yes Dad
> is a hero. LOL and yes I am biased.
> Pagemaker ? wowsa that's a name from the past! LOL.
> The reason why games didn't help Apples (then) uncertain future, as well
> was because kids (teens) was  who pestered John, Chade, Kyle, or Karen to
> get a new computer. Apple didn't  have that for a long time, not allowing
> clones up to a 2 year golden renaissance  years later also hurt them. BeOS
> at the time was more macos then macos.. So you had a glorified printer and
> webpage publisher that'd cost 5-7k+. Compare that to the PC world a 900$ pc
> was keeping pace with apple, steve jobs and his ego. That when Chad was
> done with homework, or kyle done writing a report. They might sign into a
> BBS to play bolo, or a MUD.
> Apple had to sell the UI and UX.
>
> Sufficed  to say Dad was up all night  (almost literally). cursing at
> "the yapping dogs" and yelling "* ing hell steve[the steve jobs kind]
> what now!, oh would you like me to pull a rabbit out of my  while I'm
> at it, we need to give it a ipadress so it's adressable by postscript!" .
> But him, Steve Caserous eta all did it! and now the now speech isfamous
> speech.  And Dad doesn't think he's a good programmer still. lol. Eh well
> not all heroes were capes, He's a Hero IMO.
> Get him to tell you about the time he proved you as long as a device has
> some sense of network addressing, you can get it to do almost anything,
> including drive monitors.  Or when him and Ben Stalts pranked SkunkWorks
> Sun with upside down displays using nothing more than NeWS's postscript,
> scripting code.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 4:54 PM Stephen Guerin <
> stephen.gue...@simtable.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 11:30 AM Steve Smith  wrote:
>>
>>> My copy of Glenn Reid's 1990 Thinking in PostScript
>>> <https://w3-o.cs.hm.edu/users/ruckert/public_html/compiler/ThinkingInPostScript.pdf>
>>> sat on my shelf for two decades singing a siren song that wasn't ever quite
>>> strong enough for me to give it my full attention for the few weeks/months
>>> I believe it deserved.
>>>
>>> Someday (if humanity survives another century, or interstellar visitors
>>> bother to crack our rusty harddrives) this will all be as much fun as the
>>> vestigal (aka "junk") DNA we started finding when we started ubiquitous
>>> DNA/RNA sequencing.  It must all be "good for something"? Right?  Clearly
>>> was at one time!
>>>
>>> Fascinating that anyone (besides me) is even discussing such things 30
>>> years later:  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28115946
>>>
>>
>> 40 years earlier: From the same site, here's the first public demo of the
>> Mac in Boston in 1984. with Steve Jobs and the full Mac team onstage. I
>> think Owen is the hero of the group, though I'm biased :-)
>>
>>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29295116
>>
>>
>> From that site:
>> He called out Owen Densmore for writing the printing routines at 10m45s:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqQJ-VnJ2uc=10m45s
>>
>> And Owen answered a question about printing at 15m:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqQJ-VnJ2uc=15m
>>
>> Owen is a brilliant programmer and "User Interface Flower Child", who led
>> the "Print Shop" group at Apple that created the printing architecture for
>> Apple's Lisa and Macintosh hardware, working closely with John Warnock and
>> other Adobe engineers on the LaserWriter.
>>
>>
>> Check out Steve Job's MIT Sloan Business school when he was at NEXT
>> referencing the importance of Owen's work that became desktop publishing on
>> Apple which was the Trojan Horse that launched Apple into mainstream
>> corporate:
>>
>>
>> https://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-talks-leaving-apple-lessons-in-management-1992-mit-lecture-video-2018-5
>>
>> On the Macintosh's killer app and how he didn't see it coming (10:30):
>> "We never anticipated desktop publishing when we created the Mac. Sounds
>> funny because that turned out to be the Mac's compelling advantage, t

[FRIAM] cable modem?

[Gillian Densmore]

Hi all, the  TLDR is this:
-Needed a new cable modem because the one I have got flakey, temporarily
leasing one.
-What all do people suggest these days: rent or own?
-If then: own: Who's good now?
-If: Rent: any reasoning standout?

Thank you.
Back to debating measuring consciousness. I think that is measured in the
amount of  coffee consumed. I'll test that theory while black
caffeinated liquid fills my Karrif.
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom 
https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
archives:  5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
  1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/

Re: [FRIAM] Owen Densmore, father of object-oriented postcript in NeWS object.ps, desktop publishing and relation to NEXT [was: Re: naive question]

[Gillian Densmore]

IIRC very badly as was MacOS was held back by...games of all things. But
IIRC Adobe was quickly onto apples because picky people liked how it
handled colours. That is compared to Windows 3.1 and 94(?) lol and yes Dad
is a hero. LOL and yes I am biased.
Pagemaker ? wowsa that's a name from the past! LOL.
The reason why games didn't help Apples (then) uncertain future, as well
was because kids (teens) was  who pestered John, Chade, Kyle, or Karen to
get a new computer. Apple didn't  have that for a long time, not allowing
clones up to a 2 year golden renaissance  years later also hurt them. BeOS
at the time was more macos then macos.. So you had a glorified printer and
webpage publisher that'd cost 5-7k+. Compare that to the PC world a 900$ pc
was keeping pace with apple, steve jobs and his ego. That when Chad was
done with homework, or kyle done writing a report. They might sign into a
BBS to play bolo, or a MUD.
Apple had to sell the UI and UX.

Sufficed  to say Dad was up all night  (almost literally). cursing at  "the
yapping dogs" and yelling "* ing hell steve[the steve jobs kind] what
now!, oh would you like me to pull a rabbit out of my  while I'm at it,
we need to give it a ipadress so it's adressable by postscript!" . But him,
Steve Caserous eta all did it! and now the now speech isfamous speech.  And
Dad doesn't think he's a good programmer still. lol. Eh well not all heroes
were capes, He's a Hero IMO.
Get him to tell you about the time he proved you as long as a device has
some sense of network addressing, you can get it to do almost anything,
including drive monitors.  Or when him and Ben Stalts pranked SkunkWorks
Sun with upside down displays using nothing more than NeWS's postscript,
scripting code.




On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 4:54 PM Stephen Guerin 
wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 11:30 AM Steve Smith  wrote:
>
>> My copy of Glenn Reid's 1990 Thinking in PostScript
>> 
>> sat on my shelf for two decades singing a siren song that wasn't ever quite
>> strong enough for me to give it my full attention for the few weeks/months
>> I believe it deserved.
>>
>> Someday (if humanity survives another century, or interstellar visitors
>> bother to crack our rusty harddrives) this will all be as much fun as the
>> vestigal (aka "junk") DNA we started finding when we started ubiquitous
>> DNA/RNA sequencing.  It must all be "good for something"? Right?  Clearly
>> was at one time!
>>
>> Fascinating that anyone (besides me) is even discussing such things 30
>> years later:  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28115946
>>
>
> 40 years earlier: From the same site, here's the first public demo of the
> Mac in Boston in 1984. with Steve Jobs and the full Mac team onstage. I
> think Owen is the hero of the group, though I'm biased :-)
>
>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29295116
>
>
> From that site:
> He called out Owen Densmore for writing the printing routines at 10m45s:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqQJ-VnJ2uc=10m45s
>
> And Owen answered a question about printing at 15m:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqQJ-VnJ2uc=15m
>
> Owen is a brilliant programmer and "User Interface Flower Child", who led
> the "Print Shop" group at Apple that created the printing architecture for
> Apple's Lisa and Macintosh hardware, working closely with John Warnock and
> other Adobe engineers on the LaserWriter.
>
>
> Check out Steve Job's MIT Sloan Business school when he was at NEXT
> referencing the importance of Owen's work that became desktop publishing on
> Apple which was the Trojan Horse that launched Apple into mainstream
> corporate:
>
>
> https://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-talks-leaving-apple-lessons-in-management-1992-mit-lecture-video-2018-5
>
> On the Macintosh's killer app and how he didn't see it coming (10:30):
> "We never anticipated desktop publishing when we created the Mac. Sounds
> funny because that turned out to be the Mac's compelling advantage, the
> thing it did, not 1.5 or 2 times better than everything else, but 4, 5
> times better than anything else, where you had to had one."
>
>
> "We anticipated bitmap displays and laser printers but we never thought
> about Pagemaker, that whole industry really coming down on the desktop.
> Maybe we weren't smart enough. But we were smart enough to see it happen
> 9-12 months later. And we changed our entire marketing and business
> strategy to focus on desktop publishing, and it became the Trojan Horse
> that finally got the Mac into corporate America.
>
>
>
>
>
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[FRIAM] phones with keyboards, or a keyboard you can buy for a phone?

[Gillian Densmore]

Hello, all looking for phone recommendations. My pixel 4a is 2 years old
feeling closer to 4.
Are there any phones you can get with a keyboard? I know about
unihertz's titan. and it amuses me. But niche brand. I just don't like
typing on glass, and being frustrated with the amount of errors I get.
What about a case that'd have a keyboard that'd slide out? that'd be fine.
after that I'm looking for good  battery, nice aesthetics and. fun features
also would be fantastic. I'm thinking of how apples phones now let you use
lidar to scan stuff to convert to photosomethingery  in 3D. Or how older
phones you could theme.
I'd prefer the refurbed (on GP): both to reduce waste and sane prices.
600-900+ for phones is just bad. Where as 300-500 is at least sane.
What all do folks pay for phones? any recommendations?
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Re: [FRIAM] phones with keyboards, or a keyboard you can buy for a phone?

[Gillian Densmore]

Mmm. Well what i'm looking for something that might work on the go. Like
shopping or or something. When/if I get texts, or remember to get or do
something kind of thing.  So I don't need to type in get milk, or call
therapist if I have the right day. 20 times  to a avoid 99 errors, have a
neck crink, tired, and be in a foul, or feline mood when I get home. How
would I search for a case where the KB slides down for when I need it? Do
they even exist?

On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 4:37 PM Roger Critchlow  wrote:

> Pity you can't just switch your computer keyboard to act as your phone's
> character input, as if you were swapping the phone in as another screen.
>
> Almost any bluetooth keyboard should work, and there are tons of them on
> amazon if you search "bluetooth mini keyboard", and they're cheap.  They're
> probably too cheap to last for very long.  So maybe look at the DIY
> keyboard makers, too.
>
> -- rec --
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 12:55 PM Gary Schiltz 
> wrote:
>
>> I get by with a two year old iPhone SE. I also hate typing on glass,
>> but I have a laptop for typing.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 11:01 AM Gillian Densmore
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello, all looking for phone recommendations. My pixel 4a is 2 years
>> old feeling closer to 4.
>> > Are there any phones you can get with a keyboard? I know about
>> unihertz's titan. and it amuses me. But niche brand. I just don't like
>> typing on glass, and being frustrated with the amount of errors I get.
>> > What about a case that'd have a keyboard that'd slide out? that'd be
>> fine.
>> > after that I'm looking for good  battery, nice aesthetics and. fun
>> features also would be fantastic. I'm thinking of how apples phones now let
>> you use lidar to scan stuff to convert to photosomethingery  in 3D. Or how
>> older phones you could theme.
>> > I'd prefer the refurbed (on GP): both to reduce waste and sane prices.
>> 600-900+ for phones is just bad. Where as 300-500 is at least sane.
>> > What all do folks pay for phones? any recommendations?
>> > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
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>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
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Re: [FRIAM] phones with keyboards, or a keyboard you can buy for a phone?

[Gillian Densmore]

Nice find roger! thanks man!

On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 7:03 PM Roger Critchlow  wrote:

> Gil --
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Keyboard-Rechargeable-Wireless-Smartphones/dp/B07XCP3THX
> is the right size for every day carry and error free thumb typing, but
> you'd have to figure out your own phone mount.
>
> Here's the list of all four phones with keyboards from earlier this year:
> https://www.androidauthority.com/keyboard-phones-845839/
>
> -- rec --
>
> On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 6:52 PM Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>> Mmm. Well what i'm looking for something that might work on the go. Like
>> shopping or or something. When/if I get texts, or remember to get or do
>> something kind of thing.  So I don't need to type in get milk, or call
>> therapist if I have the right day. 20 times  to a avoid 99 errors, have a
>> neck crink, tired, and be in a foul, or feline mood when I get home. How
>> would I search for a case where the KB slides down for when I need it? Do
>> they even exist?
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 4:37 PM Roger Critchlow  wrote:
>>
>>> Pity you can't just switch your computer keyboard to act as your phone's
>>> character input, as if you were swapping the phone in as another screen.
>>>
>>> Almost any bluetooth keyboard should work, and there are tons of them on
>>> amazon if you search "bluetooth mini keyboard", and they're cheap.  They're
>>> probably too cheap to last for very long.  So maybe look at the DIY
>>> keyboard makers, too.
>>>
>>> -- rec --
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 12:55 PM Gary Schiltz <
>>> g...@naturesvisualarts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I get by with a two year old iPhone SE. I also hate typing on glass,
>>>> but I have a laptop for typing.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 11:01 AM Gillian Densmore
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Hello, all looking for phone recommendations. My pixel 4a is 2 years
>>>> old feeling closer to 4.
>>>> > Are there any phones you can get with a keyboard? I know about
>>>> unihertz's titan. and it amuses me. But niche brand. I just don't like
>>>> typing on glass, and being frustrated with the amount of errors I get.
>>>> > What about a case that'd have a keyboard that'd slide out? that'd be
>>>> fine.
>>>> > after that I'm looking for good  battery, nice aesthetics and. fun
>>>> features also would be fantastic. I'm thinking of how apples phones now let
>>>> you use lidar to scan stuff to convert to photosomethingery  in 3D. Or how
>>>> older phones you could theme.
>>>> > I'd prefer the refurbed (on GP): both to reduce waste and sane
>>>> prices. 600-900+ for phones is just bad. Where as 300-500 is at least sane.
>>>> > What all do folks pay for phones? any recommendations?
>>>> > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>>>> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>> > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>>>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>>> > to (un)subscribe
>>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>>> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>>> > archives:  5/2017 thru present
>>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
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Re: [FRIAM] truth-preserving math

[Gillian Densmore]

Thanks franks ^_^

On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 2:13 PM Frank Wimberly  wrote:

> 3 is {0, {0}, {0, {0}}} according to one approach to a using sets to form
> numbers that satisfy the Peano axioms.  In that approach 0 and the empty
> set are identical.
>
>
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2022, 2:02 PM Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>> I don't know nearly enough mind bending high levels abstract maths to
>> have more than tons of questions. I thought information (in the math sense)
>> 'just' meant 3 of something and you might know of what but the
>> absolute value of that 3 is the piece of info your starting with, and
>> keep from being mangled when working backwords to what that 3 is in the
>> real world .  Or is this morein the spooky physics sense where if certain
>> metals are made super duper cold you can levitetate trains kind of quantum
>> mechanics??
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 11:00 AM glen∉ℂ  wrote:
>>
>>> 70-year-old quantum prediction comes true, as something is created from
>>> nothing
>>> https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/
>>>
>>> It seems like this is another example where the arrogance of the
>>> abstraction reigns. Because the math relating holes and electrons is the
>>> same (?) as that relating electrons and positrons, does it mean studying
>>> one gives us insight into the other? Does the metaphysics really translate?
>>>
>>> Arrogant or not, it's super effing cool.
>>>
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Re: [FRIAM] truth-preserving math

[Gillian Densmore]

I don't know nearly enough mind bending high levels abstract maths to have
more than tons of questions. I thought information (in the math sense)
'just' meant 3 of something and you might know of what but the
absolute value of that 3 is the piece of info your starting with, and
keep from being mangled when working backwords to what that 3 is in the
real world .  Or is this morein the spooky physics sense where if certain
metals are made super duper cold you can levitetate trains kind of quantum
mechanics??

On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 11:00 AM glen∉ℂ  wrote:

> 70-year-old quantum prediction comes true, as something is created from
> nothing
> https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/
>
> It seems like this is another example where the arrogance of the
> abstraction reigns. Because the math relating holes and electrons is the
> same (?) as that relating electrons and positrons, does it mean studying
> one gives us insight into the other? Does the metaphysics really translate?
>
> Arrogant or not, it's super effing cool.
>
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[FRIAM] pardon the interuption,

[Gillian Densmore]

Complexity and what's right up peoples ally:

I've gotten into sketching again. Ok that's nice you'll say. and what's
have to do with a list about math you say? the fun of x z, and wtf axis!
Is their a program where you can sketch stuff, and it' can figure out how
to make what you have drawn into something 3D enough to chunk into
artstation or other places to show off? or is this where someone first
laughs, then says: you poor, inocent person, that's funny. let me sas out
how wicked hard that would be!
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Re: [FRIAM] pardon the interuption,

[Gillian Densmore]

Back in the day I'd sketch a character I made up: Munchy Man, super duper
hero that I'd draw on homework. And get in trouble for all kinds of made up
or borrowed sayings around Murphy's Law. Stuff like "for every question
about homework their's a equal and opposite confusing answer"  I took my
self to the loonybin because of going off the rails, part of their thing is
to draw so while in the bin for about 8-9 days, started drawing fun little
cartoon style characters.  In weird: 'i'm not that gud (imo)' moment
someone liked a drawing of Munchy Man enough she wanted to mimic it for her
dad. lol man I still don't think i'm that good, but are flattered she'd
f their's fred! the mouse--- but was flattered she'd want to try to
draw munchy man.
lol so getting back to you: If possible i'd like to have munchie man in 3D
from drawings. I also made a up a (politically incorrect for being topless)
drawing of some female alien or something, with floppy pointed ears and two
martian antenaes.  that, if possible, I'd like to sell the design of maybe
etsy. I'd guess that's where I'd go cad.  Maybe also have full  stuffed
figures sold for a cheep price on amazon.


On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 4:12 PM Jon Zingale  wrote:

> I know my response doesn't approach your questions, but...
> 1. That's awesome. What do you sketch?
> 2. What got you back into it?
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[FRIAM] Portland interruption but my laughable internet keeps going down

[Gillian Densmore]

Okay this is enough I am sick of this this BS ends. Who do I not vote for
so that we can finally get real internet out today alone I've had 15
outages the other dents more thinks the DSL is a good enough feel over
solution Man I'm sorry but DSL is just not internet these days I wish it
was but no no no no no when you're file size is or in an excess of 20 GB 30
GB whatever I mean yeah that's disgustingly large but that's just the
reality of the world that I take as it stands .


What the hell do I do to get real 300 MB each way I'm not going to
compromise this time I did that too many times.
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[FRIAM] Song stuck in head...

[Gillian Densmore]

Been watching  bit of the TV show. The first episode ("pilot") has part of
David Bowies Fame. Ooh no! you'll say. And is that stuck in your head? well
sort of.
I feel like i've heard the starting guitar and drum bit that loops through
that somewhere else. TV show or another song.
Any guesses where that might be from?
And the bigger question: what causes that thing where you might hear part
of a song, and then go: didn't  I hear something like that someplace else.
Even you turn out to be partially, or entirely wrong?
Is that a aspect of the Mandela effect? Ie how a lot of people sometimes
think Sinbad was in a movie Kazam. To find out that's not quite right. He
did sport drop crotch pants, and for a bit was into them. But alas, no
wasn't in a genie movie.
And has anyone figured out what causes that on such a mass scale. Sure
their's *some * evidence of some sort of quantum phenimonominom. But as far
as I know it's just a SWAG: Scientifitic Wild Guess.
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Re: [FRIAM] truth-preserving math

[Gillian Densmore]

Loci or Loki? :P

On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 10:21 AM Steve Smith  wrote:

>
> On 9/18/22 8:00 AM, glen∉ℂ wrote:
> > Even without the math, I think the main point is that of field vs
> > particle. We talk a lot about networks. But you can imagine a smooth
> > blob of goo (maybe like Silly Putty or pizza dough) being stretched
> > and kneaded such that some parts are hard-ish clumps and other parts
> > thin or splitting. That's what I'm thinking when I think about when a
> > positron and electron pop out from the fields.
>
> I appreciate this formulation.   I find myself thinking more in terms of
> "concentrated loci" in a high-dimensional field when I otherwise would
> think of "network" of atoms (or simples)... the "schwinger effect"
> article provided a good overview of this conception in an energy/mass
> field...  I'm (re)reading it now before "church" with St. Stephen of the
> Complexity Babble at Sopapilla factory...  maybe a margarita to smooth
> out the wave-particle distinctions...
>
> it's loci all the way down...
>
> >
> > On 9/17/22 13:01, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> >> I don't know nearly enough mind bending high levels abstract maths to
> >> have more than tons of questions. I thought information (in the math
> >> sense) 'just' meant 3 of something and you might know of what but the
> >> absolute value of that 3 is the piece of info your starting with, and
> >> keep from being mangled when working backwords to what that 3 is in
> >> the real world .  Or is this morein the spooky physics sense where if
> >> certain metals are made super duper cold you can levitetate trains
> >> kind of quantum mechanics??
> >>
> >> On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 11:00 AM glen∉ℂ  >> <mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> 70-year-old quantum prediction comes true, as something is
> >> created from nothing
> >> https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/
> >> <https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/>
> >>
> >> It seems like this is another example where the arrogance of the
> >> abstraction reigns. Because the math relating holes and electrons is
> >> the same (?) as that relating electrons and positrons, does it mean
> >> studying one gives us insight into the other? Does the metaphysics
> >> really translate?
> >>
> >> Arrogant or not, it's super effing cool.
> >
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Re: [FRIAM] truth-preserving math

[Gillian Densmore]

Gotcha!

On Sun, Sep 18, 2022 at 8:00 AM glen∉ℂ  wrote:

> Even without the math, I think the main point is that of field vs
> particle. We talk a lot about networks. But you can imagine a smooth blob
> of goo (maybe like Silly Putty or pizza dough) being stretched and kneaded
> such that some parts are hard-ish clumps and other parts thin or splitting.
> That's what I'm thinking when I think about when a positron and electron
> pop out from the fields.
>
> On 9/17/22 13:01, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> > I don't know nearly enough mind bending high levels abstract maths to
> have more than tons of questions. I thought information (in the math sense)
> 'just' meant 3 of something and you might know of what but the
> absolute value of that 3 is the piece of info your starting with, and
> keep from being mangled when working backwords to what that 3 is in the
> real world .  Or is this morein the spooky physics sense where if certain
> metals are made super duper cold you can levitetate trains kind of quantum
> mechanics??
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 11:00 AM glen∉ℂ  geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > 70-year-old quantum prediction comes true, as something is created
> from nothing
> > https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/ <
> https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/>
> >
> > It seems like this is another example where the arrogance of the
> abstraction reigns. Because the math relating holes and electrons is the
> same (?) as that relating electrons and positrons, does it mean studying
> one gives us insight into the other? Does the metaphysics really translate?
> >
> > Arrogant or not, it's super effing cool.
>
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[FRIAM] tape measure app for android? and computer mice?

[Gillian Densmore]

I've misplaced my physical tapemeasure, anyone know  a good tape measure
app for android? I'm trying to get the size of my front door. Other than
thick and old.

Computer Mice: I think I accidentally broke a logitech
Mxsomething wireless.  One of the coolest mice I've had recently was one
that was USB recharge-able. Unfortunately amazon stopped selling it, and
WalMart looks like it's out of stock on it. -_-. Are their
usb-rechargable mice good for heavy computer usage? the 'gamer mice' tend
to be more RGB than well built.  and for some weird reason tend to skip the
usb recharge part -_-. I'm running out of usb ports.
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[FRIAM] Pardon the interruption, I have a case of petty theft

[Gillian Densmore]

And a case of why I utterly despise indian tech support. No this is not
about wolpert. Yes i am beyond infuriated and feel violated 20 times a
week, and 40 on sunday.
*Facts:*
Today (9/14): after getting groceries at the Smiths on pacheco up the hill
from a mcdonalds. I went to get some groceries, reload a prepaid debt card
that i now will never do so again because of reasons to follow.
First got a woman that was to distracted talking to some other customer
after blowing me off. I found someone else. and asked to put 170, with the
intention to pick up somethings I need. and maybe something I'd just want.
(to not go over 130 as well):

*Expected Results:*
Asked the person to put 170 onto my MOFO prepaid cash card. and Have that
much added.

*Actuall results:*
Be on the MOFO phone for h o u r s. getting stone walled by some A[eddited
at steve's behest]... from india in full denial that despite: proof on
their computers something done F and Up[insuferable a*** h*** clicks link
here]:
-That SoB: never admitted they done messed up
-OR even simpler: someone pi** the Eff Off over a petty amount? just cred
it the card and move on
Oh no that a hole acted like he own the [long string of being pissed and
expletives removed]: store. Stone walled for hours. and I still have no
resolution to  something gone wrong, or stolen I don't care which.


At this point i am so... What the hell can I even do? randomly
acusing someone of petty theft is serius AF, and their's 0 reason to
blieve Smith/Krogers computer could screw up either. I do know that my
burnite spite vs this [redacted]  customer support is awful.
Now because of a complex af chain of anything could go wrongs I'm pretty
close to skull [redacted] er given' the business out of money without
knowing if their's some hidden fees, computer problem, or what ever before
going: "uh some uh random uh employee uh *might * uh have uh stolen uh some
petty amount and and.." because  that's serius AF. it's just.. not done to
do, unless you can time gem snap your fingers and show
the propper authorities: see, see! right..then!
Anyone have experience with this kind of cluster of chaotic dots that
Fizzly Ucked Up.?
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Re: [FRIAM] pardon the interuption,

[Gillian Densmore]


Duude that's a fantastic idea!

On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 4:30 PM glen  wrote:

> "3D enough"? My guess is you already know all this. But just in case ... I
> would have guessed it would be easy enough in Blender (e.g.
> https://youtu.be/AlPPYkZg9D4). But I suppose it depends on how much
> automation you expect. SketchUp and AutoDesk should do something more
> automatic. But automation kinda-sorta implies quantification. So you should
> expect to specify your 2D→3D extrapolation in some more algorithmic way.
>
> On 9/19/22 15:11, Jon Zingale wrote:
> > I know my response doesn't approach your questions, but...
> > 1. That's awesome. What do you sketch?
> > 2. What got you back into it?
> >
> > On 9/19/22 14:54, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> >> Complexity and what's right up peoples ally:
> >>
> >> I've gotten into sketching again. Ok that's nice you'll say. and what's
> have to do with a list about math you say? the fun of x z, and wtf axis!
> >> Is their a program where you can sketch stuff, and it' can figure out
> how to make what you have drawn into something 3D enough to chunk into
> artstation or other places to show off? or is this where someone first
> laughs, then says: you poor, inocent person, that's funny. let me sas out
> how wicked hard that would be!
> --
> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>
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Re: [FRIAM] Portland interruption but my laughable internet keeps going down

[Gillian Densmore]

Heya Gary! Hope all is well.
I live around canyon over by Johnnies Market. and on a good day might get
10-13 of the 25 MBS. Which isbad. Backups, updates, and some games are
significantly larger than 25mbs a second  down, and the modem speed up is
ridiculous for what comcast charges. It's especially ridiculous its allowed
as a thing at all.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 12:14 PM Gary Schiltz 
wrote:

> Where in Santa Fe do you live? I ask only out of idle curiosity, since I
> now live 6378 km from Santa Fe (check out the cool earth distance
> calculator at https://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/1224587128). But
> having lived in Pecos for 10 years and being in Santa Fe most of those days
> for work, internet speed still interests me. When I left NM in 2008, I was
> still on dialup out in Pecos (28.8 kbps on a very good day with Cybermesa),
> although someone was installing wireless in the area (512 kbps was the top
> speed even with the "high speed" plan, if I recall). And the local phone
> carrier (Centurytel if I recall the name correctly) kept offering broken
> promises of DSL. Here in rural Ecuador, I only have semi-decent access by
> learning wireless tech myself and installing thousands of dollars worth of
> equipment on my own tower and on my provider's tower 15 Km distant. Still,
> it's cost prohibitive to get much over 20-30 Mbps, although prices are
> steadily going down. Here at the end of several multiples of the "last
> mile" phenomenon, microwave is really the only way to bridge the gap, and
> on rugged mountainous terrain heavily forested with tall trees, like here,
> it is often expensive.
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 1:55 AM Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>> Okay this is enough I am sick of this this BS ends. Who do I not vote for
>> so that we can finally get real internet out today alone I've had 15
>> outages the other dents more thinks the DSL is a good enough feel over
>> solution Man I'm sorry but DSL is just not internet these days I wish it
>> was but no no no no no when you're file size is or in an excess of 20 GB 30
>> GB whatever I mean yeah that's disgustingly large but that's just the
>> reality of the world that I take as it stands .
>>
>>
>> What the hell do I do to get real 300 MB each way I'm not going to
>> compromise this time I did that too many times.
>>
>>
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Re: [FRIAM] pardon the interuption,

[Gillian Densmore]



On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 9:11 PM Stephen Guerin 
wrote:

> Gil,
>
> in response to your desire to generate 3D from 2D
>
> I've been watching the "novel view synthesis" space using NeRF (
> https://www.matthewtancik.com/NERF) over the last 2 years or so. It was
> close but not exactly what you were asking for. now here's a diffusion
> approach to generate 3D from 2D.
> https://3d-diffusion.github.io/
>
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2022, 3:54 PM Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>> Complexity and what's right up peoples ally:
>>
>> I've gotten into sketching again. Ok that's nice you'll say. and what's
>> have to do with a list about math you say? the fun of x z, and wtf axis!
>> Is their a program where you can sketch stuff, and it' can figure out how
>> to make what you have drawn into something 3D enough to chunk into
>> artstation or other places to show off? or is this where someone first
>> laughs, then says: you poor, inocent person, that's funny. let me sas out
>> how wicked hard that would be!
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Re: [FRIAM] pardon the interuption,

[Gillian Densmore]

Steve, thanks again! And that's spot on.for I hoped existed but are
heartened that it'll be any month or year. that's reely cool. Love reading
about the cross section of Ai and 3D work for that!
Do they even bother with projection maps and UV mapping? Just from what
i've read that's a GD nightmare to make neural nets try to do. This mere
mortal being a novice, at best, to 3D as art finds it nightmare. IIR Nvidia
was working on Deep Learning, and Super Sampling so that it's Ai projects
could have a ton of visual references for things with a objectness...ie if
a door looked like it was a door it had no problem, but the instant the
images were at all lower quality (or just low polly) it'd fail. For some
reason humans can  do that better.
Any ideas why? just humans have a bunch of experience? Where if I look at
beer I go ooh yummy incoming, is it as simple as even the best neural
networks look at a cylinder and ask: what the--- is that?
I wonder how it handles odd things. Like a humanoid object that's
especially muscular. Does  guess what the back and sides would look like?


On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 1:56 AM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> 
>
> On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 9:11 PM Stephen Guerin 
> wrote:
>
>> Gil,
>>
>> in response to your desire to generate 3D from 2D
>>
>> I've been watching the "novel view synthesis" space using NeRF (
>> https://www.matthewtancik.com/NERF) over the last 2 years or so. It was
>> close but not exactly what you were asking for. now here's a diffusion
>> approach to generate 3D from 2D.
>> https://3d-diffusion.github.io/
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 19, 2022, 3:54 PM Gillian Densmore 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Complexity and what's right up peoples ally:
>>>
>>> I've gotten into sketching again. Ok that's nice you'll say. and what's
>>> have to do with a list about math you say? the fun of x z, and wtf axis!
>>> Is their a program where you can sketch stuff, and it' can figure out
>>> how to make what you have drawn into something 3D enough to chunk into
>>> artstation or other places to show off? or is this where someone first
>>> laughs, then says: you poor, inocent person, that's funny. let me sas out
>>> how wicked hard that would be!
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[FRIAM] A few weeks with blender vs a student copy of Cinema 4D

[Gillian Densmore]

Cinema 4D might win in the important Undue button. And if this derp can
find a button and make a very basic thing. People better with 3D
definitely could...maybe. It's...nooo way, it's the WordPress of Modeling
and motion graphics? wowza just thought about that. But it is! If you don't
mind. Or can work with very cookie cutter workflow. You might like it for
taking all your complicated things to turn into something mere mortals can
(literally) see and get. But unfortunately for me that was where the wall
is. Just for trying to convert sketches into 3D or at least get to where I
could? as sexy as it's layer scheme, and Maxon's attempt to keep it
nondestructive is really cool. The UX and UI is...weird compared to even
blenders: what kind of fudge did they eat? UI and UX. Mirror a Object? much
less it's data? it might exist. make that a symmetrical virtual object?
sure NP. do even my basic level of texturing? The UV unwrap? sexy? the
adding a texture? Not so much.
And the other issues with things that ya'all know way more about than I do,
man it's something begging for love from adobe or something...because. It
almost but not quite: project map a premade very detailed texture? Well,
yeah, about that the UI for doing so is..weird and kind of clunkly
Even basic transforms get frustrating.

Blender:
>From what I recall steve knows all about this both elegant and cluster, er
um fudge recipe mess. Oh btw: Fudge: because in the world of the Friam mail
list no one says angry words. They eat fudge instead since no one actually
gets mad or upset about something. Off list you might, can say what you
actually want to say to stuff.
Anyway: blender 3.1 is surprising me I hadn't touched blender since 2.2 or
something and it was awful then. I am now seeing why people might like it:
tutorials! lots of them. And a certain kind of honesty from users. Like:
this thing it does, actually is weird, bad, or just sucks. Sufficed to say
the new to me UI and UX is...growing on me.  Don't get me wrong, some of
the stuff you *can * do with it's  procderial, node thingy, graph plug one
set of commands into another long string ala Modo or Designer is really
neet. and once you get the lane its in almost makes sense, but somethings.
Like Blender Guru, and somethers ask: how are you going to know to use: map
to actually meen a collision object for 'geometry' nodes or generators to
meen: pls make something that creates this other thing?
It falls flat on it's face for undue. it just does. save, save save.legacy
things also makes no fudge eating sense either. a origin cursor to meen:
the data of this mesh promitive or nurbe is still here, but you see it here
instead is...clunky.
On the other hand? Modifiers? OMG fantastic! wicked cool
And what i bet steve is curious about:
Yes Eevee is fast it's only raster data and objects rendering a scene or
animation? fast like  hyper kids fast.
Cycles it's engine for  Raytrace and Vecter renders is horribly slow.  I
don't know why either. I know RayTracing is how to abuse your CPU and GPU.
and that it can use CUDA or other performant systems and still be slow.
Even by raytrace and vector data standandars is super frustrating.
As a test I took a simple scene i made: it's eta? tomorrow, eventually. and
that's just 250 frames of animation with almost nothing going on.
Evee and Workbench or rockets by comparison because they cheat. Evee can do
glows, and reflections and some other things that I'd need to look up.
Which Cycles can't...yet but if you need absolutely everything rendered it
might not be a good choice.
the UI and UX 200 times better than the 2.x days.
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[FRIAM] Mice being unusually invassive, anyone else?

[Gillian Densmore]

Unless Steve has a different take, then I totally respect it and etc.

OmFG. This year they keep coming. It's been years since I've had a full on
mouse invasion. And wonder: what the fudge chocolates causes it (clean
house) and what folks do about it..beyond 999 mice traps.
Easily 10 yeated out of the house just this last week alone. Do mice
migrate? Get together and decide who to drive up the wall? How does this
work? and how do I convince them: enter, and die.? (barf).
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[FRIAM] Pardon the interuption, for questions about banking apps

[Gillian Densmore]

I just recently got more of a proper bank account with BofA after a
'misshap'  with a cashcard. Keeping it relevant to Friam I think family has
some umm mmm concerns about data security, and...ok so what they really
would like to know for using the apps to make deposits by check. is How
likely is it for things to go sideways and suddenly deets from the check,
everyone that might cares knows.  I suggested to them: we aren't *that
* important.
someone like Poodlesec, or lolPHPsec isn't going to find me interesting
enough to bother. If or when they  turn a places electric security into the
consistency of /dev/null or worse. We're so screwed by then anyway.
Short of that: what's been folks experience? are they reasonable secure?
Personally I'd think i'd be more likely to run into problems from fat
fingering something. Than a check going poof, but that'd still suck.
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Re: [FRIAM] Pardon the interuption, for questions about banking apps

[Gillian Densmore]

Mmm BofA  for good or ill isdropping brick and mortar banks entirely. You
can't even do much without finger print id.  On me and my rides sides of
things going to any bank, even BofA isn't naturally within our paths
(insert humours pun about traveling salesman and having to sale around...ok
so that was a stretch)
I would hope that banks encrypt traffic. but then again...they were prone
oddly specific, deep  things like intercepting traffic by there...computer
monitors. As far as I know that's been patched into the age of the dodo's
I thought because banks use p2p and blockchains for connections that (in
theory) provided they have a oops fat finger that'd be slightly less risk
than when a human is in the loop (security wise). Human can  remember
user passwords, but if a computer is asked to store those in a
encrypted DB, not a chance short of a massive attack that's problem
But you say the week area is on your cellophane? I have no idea how that
works, but it's not surprising.
I think fam (ie Mum)  is more concerned about basic user experience. rather
than deep AF schenigans.  LoL I love my mom, but I made the mistake of
pointing out that as long as groups like anonymous, poodlesec etc
around...don't put something on the internet where you'd be super
screwed...but theire's
She heard: two parts: Don't put. and screwed. LoL, man I just meant that
their'd be a spectrum. Me, you(Glen) fam, and i'd guess short of folks on
the list in redicously deep goverment orgs  or coded NDA, super dooper
euphamism speach tricks. Just not that important. ie unless your pretty
public target? not a chance.  But then I also got curius, how exactly do
these banking apps do deposits by check. What common things go wrong? is
security between me and the banks good 'nuf?

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 8:15 AM glen  wrote:

> Well, I'd recommend against doing any banking on your phone, or doing
> anything important with it. But if you must, do it on an exclusive device
> that doesn't automatically send everything to Google or Apple, doesn't
> automatically connect to every coffee shop wifi, etc. Make sure the whole
> phone is encrypted. Don't carry it everywhere *or* have 2 that are cloned
> so when a skateboarder whips by and grabs it out of your hand, you can run
> home and lock everything down with the clone. Use another phone for
> arbitrary plebe things like selfies and Telegram. Use aliases. If they
> don't know your real name, they can't steal your ID.
>
> Or, just don't do anything important on your phone. If it's important,
> there are other, better, ways to do it.
>
> On 9/29/22 17:07, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> > I just recently got more of a proper bank account with BofA after a
> 'misshap'  with a cashcard. Keeping it relevant to Friam I think family has
> some umm mmm concerns about data security, and...ok so what they really
> would like to know for using the apps to make deposits by check. is How
> likely is it for things to go sideways and suddenly deets from the check,
> everyone that might cares knows.  I suggested to them: we aren't /that
> / important. someone like Poodlesec, or lolPHPsec isn't going to find me
> interesting enough to bother. If or when they  turn a places electric
> security into the consistency of /dev/null or worse. We're so screwed by
> then anyway.
> > Short of that: what's been folks experience? are
> they reasonable secure?  Personally I'd think i'd be more likely to run
> into problems from fat fingering something. Than a check going poof, but
> that'd still suck.
>
>
> --
> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>
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Re: [FRIAM] And now the cancer of New Mexico's utterly pathetic electrical infra

[Gillian Densmore]

Ellipses ellipses ellipses space. Well okay yeah well when taking the total
sum of one matrix mapped on to a smaller one divided by the Delta of
success over the epsilon of entropy to account for variables in being a
complete mess of a state I would say that when that group is set to a
comparison value of how butt how awful New Mexico is that the weighted
values are leaning only marginally towards New Mexico but not by a whole
hell of a lot it's almost within margins for error it only only just barely
passes it for having a marginally slightly kind of sort of competent
governor although not by much more than teddy boy.

The some polynomial time entropy of both is absolutely astounding. However
that some is hilariously smaller than the incomplete chaos I think Florida
qualifies not just as chaos and chaos vectors but as the strange attractor
for chaos it's the central Nexus of chaos I don't know whether or not
that's on purpose or just how it ended up but regardless.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 2:03 PM cody dooderson  wrote:

> I heard Texas' power grid is pretty good ;P
>
> Cody Smith
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 1:28 PM Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>> Just now my god damn electric went out and in my opinion there is
>> absolutely no excuse for this it's been for the last 5 minutes pretending
>> to come on and my question is why the f this is still a GD thing I mean we
>> pay them good money to get ripped off in the winter for bupkiss and the
>> best they can do is during the middle of weather have the GD thing go out
>> rather than just you know staying long like any other modern first world
>> country.
>>
>> What the hell are we paying them for. And what the hell happened that
>> these yank weeds can't keep their effing electric turned on I guess it's
>> time to find another state because this is just pathetic.
>>
>>
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Re: [FRIAM] And now the cancer of New Mexico's utterly pathetic electrical infra

[Gillian Densmore]



On Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 2:19 PM glen  wrote:

> Bingo! If you want competence, move to a real city.
>
> On August 10, 2022 12:27:23 PM PDT, Gillian Densmore <
> gil.densm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I guess it's time to
> >find another state because this is just pathetic.
>
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[FRIAM] And now the cancer of New Mexico's utterly pathetic electrical infra

[Gillian Densmore]

Just now my god damn electric went out and in my opinion there is
absolutely no excuse for this it's been for the last 5 minutes pretending
to come on and my question is why the f this is still a GD thing I mean we
pay them good money to get ripped off in the winter for bupkiss and the
best they can do is during the middle of weather have the GD thing go out
rather than just you know staying long like any other modern first world
country.

What the hell are we paying them for. And what the hell happened that these
yank weeds can't keep their effing electric turned on I guess it's time to
find another state because this is just pathetic.
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Re: [FRIAM] And now the cancer of New Mexico's utterly pathetic electrical infra

[Gillian Densmore]

Ok now here is a question Mr Cody would you say that the total group
entropy and complete and utter mess of in force in Mexico in Texas is worse
or better than that Puerto Rico because I suspect that the island people
will be saying yeah Puerto Rico enters chat where you want to talk about
utter carbuckle of infra PR is  has a solid lead.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 2:15 PM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> Ellipses ellipses ellipses space. Well okay yeah well when taking the
> total sum of one matrix mapped on to a smaller one divided by the Delta of
> success over the epsilon of entropy to account for variables in being a
> complete mess of a state I would say that when that group is set to a
> comparison value of how butt how awful New Mexico is that the weighted
> values are leaning only marginally towards New Mexico but not by a whole
> hell of a lot it's almost within margins for error it only only just barely
> passes it for having a marginally slightly kind of sort of competent
> governor although not by much more than teddy boy.
>
> The some polynomial time entropy of both is absolutely astounding. However
> that some is hilariously smaller than the incomplete chaos I think Florida
> qualifies not just as chaos and chaos vectors but as the strange attractor
> for chaos it's the central Nexus of chaos I don't know whether or not
> that's on purpose or just how it ended up but regardless.
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 2:03 PM cody dooderson  wrote:
>
>> I heard Texas' power grid is pretty good ;P
>>
>> Cody Smith
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 1:28 PM Gillian Densmore 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just now my god damn electric went out and in my opinion there is
>>> absolutely no excuse for this it's been for the last 5 minutes pretending
>>> to come on and my question is why the f this is still a GD thing I mean we
>>> pay them good money to get ripped off in the winter for bupkiss and the
>>> best they can do is during the middle of weather have the GD thing go out
>>> rather than just you know staying long like any other modern first world
>>> country.
>>>
>>> What the hell are we paying them for. And what the hell happened that
>>> these yank weeds can't keep their effing electric turned on I guess it's
>>> time to find another state because this is just pathetic.
>>>
>>>
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Re: [FRIAM] Game Theory!

[Gillian Densmore]

Glen! hope your feeling better man.
Just for commiseration: been waking up with my shoulders and back feeling
like a pretzel. I have run out of words to describe how upset I am with the
state of the country for sure, and have this constant suspicion terry
prachet is right: the gods like to [REDACTED]  with the world. And we're
actually in some strange game they have made just to troll. Just unreal
inflation.
The part of my week that was [REDACTED]. And no good wrotten etc.:
Two computer mice stopped working. One was a Elcon Trackball, the other
hella' nice Reddragon RGB for more compute. Though I suspect to bring me
one step closer to my room look like a 80s pizzaria and arcade 藍.
Then a mechanical KB by razer, and now my retro-style regular ol ruber
dombes one's springs under the keys have a hissy fit on the regular.
I don't know which of the trolling gods turn it is to troll me. But I was
rickrolled. As in clicked on a link that I should have known better not to,
kind of rick rolled
Oh wait before that a computer moniter went kerput. like WTF anything else
want to break?
All in more or less 2 week period as well

On the hand  the AC unit fam got me is fantastic!

I am curius though. Is their some reason awful luck like this happens. Just
pure luck?

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 3:23 PM David Eric Smith 
wrote:

> In case you’re feeling a need:
>
> https://www.danmoi.com/
>
> Their products are good.
>
> > On Aug 15, 2022, at 9:59 PM, glen  wrote:
> >
> > LoL! That was fantastic. Everyone needs a jaw harp <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew%27s_harp> for this exact reason!
> >
> > Here's one of my favorite youtubers trying it out:
> https://youtu.be/3eldMp_E14A
> >
> > On 8/13/22 18:08, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> >> Oh hey man sorry your week sucked. now game theory is actually, where,
> in theory, you start a game of pathfinder on time, and then everyone rolls
> 1D20 for initiative And then their's the reality of geeks who run on carbs
> caffeine. 藍
> >> Nothing related to math:
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj7a-p4psRA <
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj7a-p4psRA>
> >> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 8:04 AM glen  geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NAQMoRzuxk <
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NAQMoRzuxk>
> >>First laugh out loud of the week!  Yes, I know. My week has sucked.
> >
> > --
> > ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
> >
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Re: [FRIAM] Game Theory!

[Gillian Densmore]

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtlrITxB5qg


On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 4:26 PM glen  wrote:

> Since you brought up Pratchett:
> https://quantumfrontiers.com/2022/08/14/rocks-that-roll/
>
> EricS: Those pocket synthesizers are very tempting. Thanks.
>
> Gil: Yeah, this week's had a way better start. Still can't work out 'cause
> the construction crew has all their stuff packed in the area where I do it.
> [sigh] ... getting fatter by the hour!
>
> Luck: IDK, man. I don't really believe in luck or unluck. But I do believe
> in selection or filtering. I think we've talked about it on the list, where
> we're wired to pay more attention to negative stuff than positive stuff. So
> noticing all the red stop lights and ignoring all the green ones might be
> related to thinking the rustling in the bush is a tiger. If it is a tiger,
> running was a good idea. If it's not a tiger, well you simply wasted a few
> calories, better safe than sorry ... however suspect evolutionary
> psychology might be. One challenge to my disbelief, though, is that I know
> a couple of people who really do seem to always be in the wrong place at
> the wrong time ... get rear-ended by an uninsured driver ... have their
> spouse degenerate with lupus ... allergic to pine nuts (?!?) ... on and on
> for a lifetime of hassle. The story of Job, I guess. Someone has to play
> the 6 sigma role.
>
> On 8/15/22 15:05, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> > I am curius though. Is their some reason awful luck like this
> happens. Just pure luck?
>
> --
> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>
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Re: [FRIAM] Advice sought: data compromise

[Gillian Densmore]

Nick, scan Call your Doctor in the morning to double check. Alas Ma'man.
Scammers tend to target people about your  uh mmpf. Uh 'stage of life'.
"local health care provider" or any other generic name is instant redflag
for scam. Just to be sure ping your doctor.
A data leak wouldn't hit just you. And you'd be reading on the news how
poodlesec, or Anonymous goatsed some a database. A vague email or call is a
scam.
I get a a lot of scam and spam calls, if something sounds like Bull(removed
at someones request) smells like, etc probably is. Don't over thing it and
trust your gut.
I get sus af emails and calls, sometimes claiming to be from tmobile. I
just check the web or my account or w/e from time to time.

On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 8:01 AM glen  wrote:

> And consider putting a temporary lock on your credit. It should be free
> with any of the 3 big credit reporting agencies. I used equifax <
> https://www.equifax.com/personal/products/credit/credit-lock-alert/> when
> my info was leaked. The lock simply means you (or anyone impersonating you)
> has to jump through a few more hoops to get a loan or whatever.
>
> On 8/12/22 06:53, Steve Smith wrote:
> > Nick -
> >
> > If I understand your story correctly, I would start by verifying the
> "local health care company".  If they are someone you do business with,
> then you can contact them otherwise through "normal" channels (not
> website/e-mail) that you already trust (you do business with them
> already?)   It is not good practice for *them* to be directing you to a
> third-party "monitoring" site in they way they seem to be.   If you do NOT
> do business with them already then it is almost assuredly a phishing
> attempt.  Or maybe more appropriately a "phlushing" attempt... what
> predators do to try to get prey to panic and expose themselves so they can
> pounce and/or run you to ground.
> >
> > Hope your summer is going well otherwise!
> >
> > - Steve
> >
> >
> > On 8/12/22 4:12 AM, David Eric Smith wrote:
> >> Yes, Nick,
> >>
> >> Stay in your cage of distrust.  I will be very surprised if you
> ultimately determine that this _wasn’t_ a scam.  Maybe even add a bar or
> two to your cage walls: I would generally not log into a link received in
> an email, if there weren’t some way I could initiate the contact with a
> known company through some website that the various certifiers think is
> theirs.
> >>
> >> Eric
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Aug 12, 2022, at 10:24 AM,  <
> thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi, everybody,
> >>> Sorry for  the bother.
> >>> A local health care company writes me to say they have compromised all
> my identity data, and offers to pay for “Kroll Monitoring Services”, giving
> me an ID number with which to log into their site.  When I do this, the
> site fills in my correct address and last name but an incorrect first name,
> and asks me to enter all my identity data.  At this point, I begin to
> contemplate that the notice itself may be a fraud.  I eventually find Kroll
> on the web, but it wasn’t all that easy.  None of the sites that evaluate
> credit monitoring services has it.  How do I extricate myself from my cage
> of distrust?
> >>> Nick
> >>> Nick Thompson
> >>> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> --
> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>
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Re: [FRIAM] "tech" companies suck

[Gillian Densmore]

And this is why you do stuff IRL.
Or find some rusty razors to remove Kavaenough and co's equipment for
banning abortions in the firstplace. Probably both!
Sneakernet to the rescue
Why didn't they just call and text?
And who's joining the metaverse and staying their?
And where do find this stuff glen >_<

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 2:41 PM glen  wrote:

>
> https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zevd/this-is-the-data-facebook-gave-police-to-prosecute-a-teenager-for-abortion
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Re: [FRIAM] Game Theory!

[Gillian Densmore]

Oh hey man sorry your week sucked. now game theory is actually, where, in
theory, you start a game of pathfinder on time, and then everyone rolls
1D20 for initiative And then their's the reality of geeks who run on carbs
caffeine. 藍

Nothing related to math:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj7a-p4psRA


On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 8:04 AM glen  wrote:

>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NAQMoRzuxk
>
> First laugh out loud of the week!  Yes, I know. My week has sucked.
>
> --
> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>
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Re: [FRIAM] SIKE hack

[Gillian Densmore]

藍 is it bad I read the subject as Psych!(as in the slang) quantum
encryption broken.
I thoughtwell I know...just say I probably bring the mode and mean
average age down a few pegs on the list. but uuuh. who the heck still uses
80s-90s highschool slan...oh SIKE! with a S!
I still don't know what contents of the article was. just thought a derpy
misreading of email might make someones day!

On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 8:33 AM glen  wrote:

> I'm reminded of the adage "getting it right, not being right". On a
> similar note, I've seen some stark criticism of this thing:
>
> https://www.uaustin.org/founding-trustees
>
> And, at first blush, the presence of a proud spook like Lonsdale and a
> permanent grievance rhetorician like Heying ring some bells. But, again, if
> we apply "getting it right, not being right", it's easier to doff one's
> filter bubble goggles and see the percolating, co-evolutionary milieu in
> which we stew.
>
> I had to remind a colleague the other day that QC doesn't (really) exist,
> yet. So whatever one's (premature) conclusions might be, just soften a bit.
> The same applies to the crypto-currency space. While it's a crime against
> humanity to write off the suffering of suckers who spent their life's
> savings on some sh¡tcoin only to lose it all as blockchain growing pains,
> "caveat emptor" has been a well-worn phrase for eons. Optimism is poison in
> large doses. I re-learn that lesson every time I think something like
> "Yeah, I could rewire that" or "Sure, I can mount that to the wall". Pffft.
> You'd think I could measure twice, cut once by now.
>
> On 8/4/22 07:00, Sarbajit Roy wrote:
> > The story is dated 3-August, and to think that just last week on 27th
> July 2022 the headline was "... *IBM puts NIST’s quantum-resistant crypto
> to work in Z16 mainframe ... Big Blue says it helped developed the algos,
> so knows what it's doing***"
> >
> >
> https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/27/z16_ibm_post_quantum_crypto/?td=keepreading
> <
> https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/27/z16_ibm_post_quantum_crypto/?td=keepreading
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 6:52 PM glen  geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Post-quantum crypto cracked in an hour with one core of an ancient
> Xeon
> >
> https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/03/nist_quantum_resistant_crypto_cracked/
> <
> https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/03/nist_quantum_resistant_crypto_cracked/
> >
> >
> >   From SMMRY:
> https://smmry.com/https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/03/nist_quantum_resistant_crypto_cracked/#_LENGTH=7
> <
> https://smmry.com/https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/03/nist_quantum_resistant_crypto_cracked/#_LENGTH=7
> >
> >  > Post-quantum crypto cracked in an hour with one Xeon core The
> Register
> >  > One of the four encryption algorithms the US National Institute
> of Standards and Technology recommended as likely to resist decryption by
> quantum computers has has holes kicked in it by researchers using a single
> core of an Intel Xeon CPU, released in 2013.
> >  >
> >  > Within SIKE lies a public key encryption algorithm and a key
> encapsulated mechanism, each instantiated with four parameter sets:
> SIKEp434, SIKEp503, SIKEp610 and SIKEp751.
> >  >
> >  > "Ran on a single core, the appended Magma code breaks the
> Microsoft SIKE challenges $IKEp182 and $IKEp217 in about 4 minutes and 6
> minutes, respectively. A run on the SIKEp434 parameters, previously
> believed to meet NIST's quantum security level 1, took about 62 minutes,
> again on a single core," wrote Castryck and Decru, of Katholieke
> Universiteit Leuven in a a preliminary article [PDF] announcing their
> discovery.
> >  >
> >  > Quantum-resistant encryption research is a hot topic because it
> is felt that quantum computers are almost certain to become prevalent and
> sufficiently powerful to crack existing encryption algorithms.
> >  >
> >  > Alongside the vintage processor, Castryck and Decru used a key
> recovery attack on the Supersingular Isogeny Diffie-Hellman key exchange
> protocol that was based on Ernest Kani's "Glue-and-split" theorem.
> >  >
> >  > "The attack exploits the fact that SIDH has auxiliary points and
> that the degree of the secret isogeny is known. The auxiliary points in
> SIDH have always been an annoyance and a potential weakness, and they have
> been exploited for fault attacks, the GPST adaptive attack, torsion point
> attacks, etc." argued University of Auckland mathematician Stephen
> Galbraith in his cryptography blog.
> >  >
> >  > Security researcher Kenneth White tweeted his awe and noted "In
> 10-20 yrs we *might* have practical quantum computers, so let's roll out
> replacement PQ crypto now. Which could be trivially broken today, on a
> laptop."
> >
>
>
> --
> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>
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[FRIAM] Getsing the powa

[Gillian Densmore]

https://interestingengineering.com/science/breakthrough-nuclear-fusion-energy-ignition-record-megajoule-shot
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Re: [FRIAM] Gross incompetent maggots concast

[Gillian Densmore]

蘿


On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 8:39 AM Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> Just be glad it isn’t Spectrum!
>
>
> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/07/jury-orders-charter-to-pay-7-billion-for-murder-of-woman-killed-by-cable-tech/
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[FRIAM] ELI5 Monkey pox.

[Gillian Densmore]

I am so confused. What's going on with monkeypox. I thought it was all but
eradicated by the 80s.  I am also having covid vibes,and my heckles and
sneckles and all that stuff are going: you have to kidding me! Yet another
epidemic forming, and disturbingly lax response. I don't say call red alert
(yet). Can we get--hmm what come just before yellow alert?--Orange? well
reguardless. why not stomp it out now with extrem prejiduce, so we can
avoid yet another covid like situation?
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Re: [FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement

[Gillian Densmore]

Don't give him ideas. He's gone more off the deep end than usual.

On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 11:01 AM Steve Smith  wrote:

>
> On 12/23/22 7:47 PM, Prof David West wrote:
>
> Instead of a cable - maybe Tesla’s unrealized broadcast technology? I
> don’t remember the details but he was going to send power from Long Island,
> via the ionosphere, to light the world expo in Paris.
>
> How could that ever go wrong?
>
> What kinds of upgrades do the tinfoil hat crowds need for that?
> Constantly driving ground spikes and clipping-in to plumbing wherever you
> go?
>
> A little modulation and maybe lightning (aka semi-directed energy) could
> be weaponized?
>
> Musk probably has a plan to integrate this into his Super(Duper) charging
> network.
>
> Forget Jewish Space Lasers, Afrikaaner Particle Beams R' US !
>
> HAARP: https://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/PT.3.3032
>
> Jet Lightning:
> https://www.gtri.gatech.edu/newsroom/new-research-will-study-mysterious-effects-gigantic-jet-lightning
>
>
>
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Re: [FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement

[Gillian Densmore]

Didn't Tessela have steampunk level ideas his coild could charge flying
machines somehow? We have static driven motors already. They lack umpf
though.

On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 10:08 AM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

> Don't give him ideas. He's gone more off the deep end than usual.
>
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 11:01 AM Steve Smith  wrote:
>
>>
>> On 12/23/22 7:47 PM, Prof David West wrote:
>>
>> Instead of a cable - maybe Tesla’s unrealized broadcast technology? I
>> don’t remember the details but he was going to send power from Long Island,
>> via the ionosphere, to light the world expo in Paris.
>>
>> How could that ever go wrong?
>>
>> What kinds of upgrades do the tinfoil hat crowds need for that?
>> Constantly driving ground spikes and clipping-in to plumbing wherever you
>> go?
>>
>> A little modulation and maybe lightning (aka semi-directed energy) could
>> be weaponized?
>>
>> Musk probably has a plan to integrate this into his Super(Duper) charging
>> network.
>>
>> Forget Jewish Space Lasers, Afrikaaner Particle Beams R' US !
>>
>> HAARP: https://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/PT.3.3032
>>
>> Jet Lightning:
>> https://www.gtri.gatech.edu/newsroom/new-research-will-study-mysterious-effects-gigantic-jet-lightning
>>
>>
>>
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[FRIAM] perplexed and frustrated by inflation

[Gillian Densmore]

I am having bad flash backs to the 80s when (us) inflation and day to day
living costs were unreal. Is the main culprits really down to supply and
demand? This is coming from constant sticker shock at day to day stuff. For
instance in a surreal twist: it's now cheaper for me use insta cart than
refill on gas.
Do we have any clue how much longer inflation and the joys of fragile
complex supply chains will, frankly, constantly truck people?
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Re: [FRIAM] Friday AM

[Gillian Densmore]

(insert a stupid joke about tomorrow being saturday)

On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 10:52 AM Stephen Guerin 
wrote:

> I'll meet you at saveur
>
> On Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 9:37 AM Frank Wimberly  wrote:
>
>> OPT Cafe is closed as well. What a way to run a business this is peak
>> Family dining out Time.  John Dobson and I are headed to Saveur which we
>> have confirmed to be open. It's at the corner of Galileo and cerrillos Road
>> downtown. It's next to the new courthouse.
>>
>> ---
>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>
>> 505 670-9918
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 9:16 AM Stephen Guerin 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm heading to Pecos Trail Cafe.  Gorge will appreciate us coming.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 9:05 AM Frank Wimberly 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 To my surprise St John's Peterson Center is locked. I've never seen
 that before

 As an alternative I'm wondering about the Old Pecos trail Cafe which is
 on Old Pecos trail just south of Zia Road. They have excellent food and
 coffee and lots of room it's about halfway between my house and John
 Dobson's house.  I'll wait till someone else arrives at St John's as a
 sanity check and then probably head for Old Pecos trail Cafe. If anything
 changes I'll send another email.

 Frank


 ---
 Frank C. Wimberly
 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
 Santa Fe, NM 87505

 505 670-9918
 Santa Fe, NM

 On Thu, Dec 29, 2022, 8:43 PM Frank Wimberly 
 wrote:

> Is anyone planning to be at St John's tomorrow morning?
>
> Frank
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
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Re: [FRIAM] The WEBB seeing back to the first millennia

[Gillian Densmore]

(using a bad analogy) and those photons record what's going on like a on
going WEBB stream? so we now have essentially the ability to see old
streams (as it were) from photons any anything else that can get a snippet
of that. and basically light  does take time to show up.  it's not exactly
instant on the galatic scale (see also: Relativity). and so by the time
WEBB or any other other telescopes s mirrors cameras and blah blah blah
send that to our eyes those photons are now old reeely old. And the grand
expansion is  fast enough to go faster then light? or is it because the
universe is stupendously big. so it takes a while to get to where we can
snag some photons?

On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 10:49 AM Frank Wimberly  wrote:

> My guess:  stars, including the Sun, are constantly producing and emitting
> new photons.  This happens as a result of fusion and other processes.
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 9:21 AM Owen Densmore  wrote:
>
>> In aj NYTimes article:
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/27/science/astronomy-webb-telescope.html
>> ..there is the usual discussion on "seeing back to the first several
>> millennia".
>>
>> But, and be kind, why haven't these photons already sped past us? I
>> suppose it is because the exanssion is uniformly everywhere, we just kept
>> ahead of them? That seems unlikely given the expansion is slower than light.
>>
>> -- Owen
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Re: [FRIAM] The WEBB seeing back to the first millennia

[Gillian Densmore]

Hmmm. Are we? I am skeptical it is. Ok so if it's not...how would we even
check? Gravity lensing and guesstimate?

On Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 10:18 AM Tom Johnson  wrote:

> Ah, but are we sure the expansion IS uniform?
>
> ===
> Tom Johnson
> Inst. for Analytic Journalism
> Santa Fe, New Mexico
> 505-577-6482
> ===
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 10:01 AM Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>> AH! egad, that's so large and far away I can almost get my head around
>> it. lol no wonder we want infra-red. that's practically going backwards by
>> then
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 10:57 AM Roger Frye  wrote:
>>
>>> They are shifted so far to the red that when they reach us, they are
>>> stop lights.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 9:42 AM Gillian Densmore 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Same Q! My guess is what they meen is that stuff is reely far away so
>>>> it'd be like looking at events that had happened but we can catchup to the
>>>> show because of distance somehow due to lag essentially. Someone that knows
>>>> more about this then I do hopefully has a much more concrete answer. Fwiw
>>>> it's the kind of things that keeps NDGT ( Niel DeGrasse Tyson) up lol
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 10:21 AM Owen Densmore 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In aj NYTimes article:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/27/science/astronomy-webb-telescope.html
>>>>> ..there is the usual discussion on "seeing back to the first several
>>>>> millennia".
>>>>>
>>>>> But, and be kind, why haven't these photons already sped past us? I
>>>>> suppose it is because the exanssion is uniformly everywhere, we just kept
>>>>> ahead of them? That seems unlikely given the expansion is slower than 
>>>>> light.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Owen
>>>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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>>>>>
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Re: [FRIAM] The WEBB seeing back to the first millennia

[Gillian Densmore]

Same Q! My guess is what they meen is that stuff is reely far away so it'd
be like looking at events that had happened but we can catchup to the show
because of distance somehow due to lag essentially. Someone that knows more
about this then I do hopefully has a much more concrete answer. Fwiw it's
the kind of things that keeps NDGT ( Niel DeGrasse Tyson) up lol

On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 10:21 AM Owen Densmore  wrote:

> In aj NYTimes article:
> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/27/science/astronomy-webb-telescope.html
> ..there is the usual discussion on "seeing back to the first several
> millennia".
>
> But, and be kind, why haven't these photons already sped past us? I
> suppose it is because the exanssion is uniformly everywhere, we just kept
> ahead of them? That seems unlikely given the expansion is slower than light.
>
> -- Owen
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Re: [FRIAM] The WEBB seeing back to the first millennia

[Gillian Densmore]

AH! egad, that's so large and far away I can almost get my head around it.
lol no wonder we want infra-red. that's practically going backwards by then

On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 10:57 AM Roger Frye  wrote:

> They are shifted so far to the red that when they reach us, they are stop
> lights.
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 9:42 AM Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>> Same Q! My guess is what they meen is that stuff is reely far away so
>> it'd be like looking at events that had happened but we can catchup to the
>> show because of distance somehow due to lag essentially. Someone that knows
>> more about this then I do hopefully has a much more concrete answer. Fwiw
>> it's the kind of things that keeps NDGT ( Niel DeGrasse Tyson) up lol
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 10:21 AM Owen Densmore 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In aj NYTimes article:
>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/27/science/astronomy-webb-telescope.html
>>> ..there is the usual discussion on "seeing back to the first several
>>> millennia".
>>>
>>> But, and be kind, why haven't these photons already sped past us? I
>>> suppose it is because the exanssion is uniformly everywhere, we just kept
>>> ahead of them? That seems unlikely given the expansion is slower than light.
>>>
>>> -- Owen
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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[FRIAM] keep getting mice.

[Gillian Densmore]

Another surge of mice Q: For all of Dismember  i've had nothing but an
ongoing trickle of mice. what the is going on here? Is anyone else having
mice issues as well?
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Re: [FRIAM] Friday AM

[Gillian Densmore]

Hey! anime is a good thing. Or at least that's what I tell myself with
guilty pleasure anime like HighSchool DXD. :P
now back to you glen and your rant. So what you're saying is: what the
actual [redacted]?  It's down to lipservices to fix the issue of people
going postal or snapping in some other awful way. Sure it'd be good for
them to take a look how some non-trivial amount of people are just hardly
putting food on the table. And be all like: we can either fund that stupid
wall or do a universal base income of so much a week for everyone. I think
the point of the opening question being open is in this odd thing normals
call: health in context. or what I call small talk while the dr. does paper
work . Some nothing burger thing to fill dead time. And believe me I'm not
great about bsing about myself either so you have my comiserations.

On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 10:50 AM glen  wrote:

> I've mostly been neutral about "the holidays". But as I age and my
> productivity tanks, I look upon all the little "reports" we get from
> friends and family with increasing sadness. It used to simply feel odd that
> "The So-and-so Family" year end report talked about how little Bobby has
> taken his amateur anime to new heights or whatever. But now it feels less
> odd, more normal ... and more digusting somehow. I guess it's a bit like
> the difference between the haughty _curriculum vitae_ and the more
> pedestrian, reflective, _résumé_.
>
> I went in for a "wellness check" with my GP group the other day. Don't ask
> me what they mean by "wellness check". I don't know. But because I don't
> really care which GP of the group sees me, this was a new one. She asked me
> that bane of the cocktail party question "Tell me about yourself." WTF?!? I
> *should* have said something like "I want to be an apocalyptic nomad and
> you breeder/settler types annoy the hell out of me." (She's pregnant with a
> 1st kid at home.) I might have, had we been at a cocktail party. Instead I
> just hemmed and hawed and asked her what she wanted to know, specifically.
> [sigh] It ended the typical way. You drink too much. You're too fat. Your
> cholesterol's too high. Yaddayaddayadda. Nothing to see here. Move along.
>
> I think the problem is I haven't been to a job interview in a while. Maybe
> that's what I should do this year ... try to line up a few job interviews
> so I'm forced to practice my narrative self elevator pitch.
>
> Happy New Year, y'all.
>
>
> On 12/30/22 16:36, Steve Smith wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12/30/22 1:32 PM, glen wrote:
> >> Interesting tangent. As always, I only post when I feel like I have
> something to disagree with (or fine-tune in a way that might seem
> contrarian). I feel like the closing on whim or choosing hours that may be
> inconvenient for a population is how we *should* do business. There's
> nothing more inhuman/inhumane than, say, shopping at Safeway at 2am because
> you *know* a multinational corporation is trying to squeeze that last blood
> from the market (and its employees).
> >>
> >> Convenience is one face of the Janus. Another is the optimized self ...
> e.g. tracking your footsteps to make sure you get them all in for the day
> ... or counting calories ... or Amazon-style, Taylorist "quantified self".
> *In*convenience is life. Attempts to avoid it are akin to suicide. And
> inconvenience is also pro-social. There's nothing more inconvenient than
> providing social support for a fellow human, sick puppy, or diseased
> ecosystem.
> >>
> >> So, when I see a "gone fishing" sign on a local business, I get a bit
> of a dopamine kick. Good for you, dude.
> >
> > It might also be worth noting that this "renormalization" leaves room
> for excellence...  surely there will be *some* small businesses and
> individuals who will excel by striving to expand or refine their "value
> proposition"...
> >
> > I can see silver linings throughout but I  think there will be "ringing"
> in many dimensions. As for me, I am happy with my new "lowered
> expectations" and even, as you suggest, can applaud a "gone fishing" sign...
> >
> > My own interests in optimization tend toward expanding circles of
> context... in my youth (at least into my 30s) the circle was rarely much
> larger than my self, my nuclear family, my neighborhood, my workplace.
> Nowadays it has become dizzyingly large and too often abstract... probably
> to the point of absurdity and ineffectuality.
> >
> >   It was safer and perhaps saner when I limited my optimization
> ideations to people and places I interacted with daily...   I also
> discovered "satisficing" vs "optimising"  in my 30s which was a significant
> relief, and allowed more degrees of freedom in my optimization/satisficing
> intentions/habits.
> >
> > "Good enough for who it's for" is a much better mantra, IMO than the
> usual "... for government work".
> >
> >>
> >> On 12/30/22 12:16, Steve Smith wrote:
> >>>
>  OPT Cafe is closed as well. What a way to run a business this is 

[FRIAM] [off topic] Bank of america problems

[Gillian Densmore]

Another off topic, but I don't know to many large lists of people that
might have some ideas to help.
In short I get a check from family to help cover grocery bills  weeks from
first national here in santa fe. That is then deposisted at bank of
america. For a while everything was going well. then Bank of America 2
weeks ago put a hold on one check. and then a check I tried to deposit on
monday.



What in the actual f***x.
Mom (dede) and owen (my dad) and me (gil) are beyond angry and
infuriated at this development, Is their anything meengful I can do on my
end? Why would they do that out of the blue? and is their anything to be
done about it?


Or is it just a depressing case of banks do that because they can? I needed
that money to get groceries FFS.
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Re: [FRIAM] [off topic] Bank of america problems

[Gillian Densmore]

I think you were on the phone with me! I called them up today to see what
the problem was. They said more or less the samethings they told you. They
also added "have to collect the funds" to the list of nonsense. It's a
check from first national that's physically speaking just around the corner
of a few branch. I got reely miffed and upset. Like it took a lot of effort
to not curse, yell or breakdown. The entire list of officers and front desk
types all towed the same line that came down to they don't want to work
better. The weird thing is the money itself is better than good because
it's both from the goverment  and a bank (physically speaking) right  next
to them in a few locations. Oh for me they also added: "protecting your
creddit and ensure it has enhanced standing" . Collecting funds? RLY, if
that were true a dude could go to the other side of devargis mall and say
to the bank the check on the uh check run it by them with a secret see you
for beer handshake or something. I feel somewhat confident if first
national santa fe nm  part of the SunFlower brand of banks was hard up for
money we'd read about it in the news.
Anyway thanks Glen.

On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 1:34 PM glen  wrote:

> I can't answer directly. But I can tell a story. A non-profit I'm involved
> with tried and failed to open a bank account at BofA. The bureaucratic
> rigmarole they put us through was intense. 2 of us officers had something
> like 10 different conversations with 2 bureaucrats at 2 of their locations.
> And their defense boiled down to a combination of "The Government" and "to
> protect our customers", including tangents about the Patriot Act and all
> sorts of nonsense. We finally went down the (metaphorical) street to US
> Bank and opened the account lickety split with no hassle at all.
>
> What can you do about it? Maybe ditch BofA for a better organization. I'd
> recommend a (local) credit union. But a bank that gives a shit about local
> businesses (e.g. US Bank) would be a good alternative. If you need the ease
> of international banking, then maybe you're out of luck. But Trump had good
> success with Deutsche Bank. They seem to play fast and loose. >8^D
>
> On 1/10/23 09:37, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> > Another off topic, but I don't know to many large lists of people that
> might have some ideas to help.
> > In short I get a check from family to help cover grocery bills  weeks
> from first national here in santa fe. That is then deposisted at bank of
> america. For a while everything was going well. then Bank of America 2
> weeks ago put a hold on one check. and then a check I tried to deposit on
> monday.
> >
> >
> >
> > What in the actual f***x.
> > Mom (dede) and owen (my dad) and me (gil) are beyond angry and
> infuriated at this development, Is their anything meengful I can do on my
> end? Why would they do that out of the blue? and is their anything to be
> done about it?
> >
> >
> > Or is it just a depressing case of banks do that because they can? I
> needed that money to get groceries FFS.
> >
>
>
> --
> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>
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Re: [FRIAM] [off topic] Bank of america problems

[Gillian Densmore]

For SnG's  asked chatgpt. it (erroneously ?) thinks credit unions are
marginally more accountable then the big banks. It does, however, note no
one has anything good to say about BofA.

For even more grins a short snippet for peoples enjoyment:

console.log("Banks are Dicks. And it's fine to hate them");

It warns that "using offensive language can be considered illegal in
coding". Me wonders if someone got the researchers in trouble.

On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 3:35 PM Barry MacKichan <
barry.mackic...@mackichan.com> wrote:

> One more bank story. About 35 years ago, 1987 I think, we were owed
> $40,000 by a German company that had developed a keyboard with programmable
> LCD symbols in the keys. We had a word processor for mathematics which
> allowed the user to design new characters. We handled the display and
> printing of the symbols, but we couldn’t change the keyboard symbols, so
> this company seemed like a good fit. Normally we required all our overseas
> distributors to pay us with a remote deposit to our account, but this
> company sent us checks.
>
> I took them to Citizens Bank in Las Cruces, and weeks later, they still
> hadn’t cleared. In the meantime, IBM announced their new PS/2, Which in
> retrospect was a non-event, but the German company’s investors panicked,
> and they went into bankruptcy.
>
> We were left holding an empty bag.
>
> —Barry
>
> On 10 Jan 2023, at 15:34, glen wrote:
>
> I can't answer directly. But I can tell a story. A non-profit I'm involved
> with tried and failed to open a bank account at BofA. The bureaucratic
> rigmarole they put us through was intense. 2 of us officers had something
> like 10 different conversations with 2 bureaucrats at 2 of their locations.
> And their defense boiled down to a combination of "The Government" and "to
> protect our customers", including tangents about the Patriot Act and all
> sorts of nonsense. We finally went down the (metaphorical) street to US
> Bank and opened the account lickety split with no hassle at all.
>
> What can you do about it? Maybe ditch BofA for a better organization. I'd
> recommend a (local) credit union. But a bank that gives a shit about local
> businesses (e.g. US Bank) would be a good alternative. If you need the ease
> of international banking, then maybe you're out of luck. But Trump had good
> success with Deutsche Bank. They seem to play fast and loose. >8^D
>
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[FRIAM] Off topic home repair Q

[Gillian Densmore]

I think my google-fu skills are failing. I'm looking for track lighting
fixtures for bulbs propper. Ie not the track. just what makes light.  Alas
between home depot, amazon, and lows I can't find many that take
lightbulbs. much less for my type of track.
Anyone have experience with this?
I'm looking for ones that'd fit a cam that uses 3 prints in kind of a
sideways field-goal for football shape.
I ask because out of the blue 4 of 6 bulbs on monday went out all at once.
Amazon has a lot that combine light+thing to hold it in place as compared
to fixture and lightbulb being separate.
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Re: [FRIAM] keep getting mice.

[Gillian Densmore]

 any case too hard to try to
>> eliminate.   With the new finish it was just the opposite, and
>> thoughtlessly, the walnut-oil surface in the process of (many months long)
>> curing fully was a terrible attractive nuisance.I think the little
>> buggers thought it was a buffet laid just for them.  We had evidence of
>> quite a few mice living in there and even when we were catching and
>> expelling one per night, there was a never ending supply.   There were
>> nominally *no* holes for them to get in, but if you've seen my construction
>> techniques you might not be surprised to find that I actually *did* have a
>> few *hidden* weak spots where they might have entered.   Our 20 year old
>> cat had gone blind the Fall before (quite gracefully) and finally passed
>> away on her own that winter... so no more mouser or even the whiff of a
>> threat of a mouser in the house.
>>
>>  We then went away for 2 months with several different house-sitters in
>> the house who had not instruction nor reason to try to keep up with the
>> mouse flux.  Besides, I was used to mouse-infestation being entirely a
>> winter-time phenomena.   When we returned mid-summer I sat in the living
>> room with the final house-sitter who was scheduled to leave the next day
>> and I sequentially set, caught/released 6 mice in the space of a couple of
>> hours.   The trap was just outside the room we were sitting in and I could
>> see the little buggers playing chase on the floors, bancos, furniture as
>> well as dancing over the top of the trap and teasing their way in and out
>> of the trap before finally springing it.   I went on to catch several each
>> evening (at twilight and beyond) until we were down to rarely seeing more
>> than two chasing through the room... and catching one per night.   Hole
>> after potential hole was plugged during this time.   And yet they keep
>> coming.   There is a chance these are recycling, we haven't gone to the
>> effort of notching their ears or painting their tails or anything.   My
>> experience in this environment is that there will always be dozens
>> (hundreds) of field mice aspiring to become house-mice... so killing (or
>> hauling far away) the ones we catch probably doesn't change that much.   I
>> now wish I hadn't moved the three bullsnakes I caught eating eggs in our
>> chicken coop across the rio grande, but invited them to live in the
>> sunroom... I think they are better (yet) mousers than a cat.
>>
>> We now have a fresh mouser who doesn't have continuous free access to the
>> sunroom (lest the buggers re-invade the house proper) but who does spend
>> time out there stalking the hell out of every nook and cranny... she hasn't
>> caught any yet (though she did help catch a few who had gotten into the
>> house before we could trap them).
>>
>> My best recommendation is to eliminate any food-attractive-nuisances
>> (refrigerator, cupboard, animal-tight containers, etc), make sure you have
>> no known extgerior wall-penetrations (even the tiniest cracks they seem to
>> squeeze through) and then go on a trapping frenzy...  clean up any trace of
>> mice ASAP so that you *know* if you have any left as you trap them down to
>> near zero.   And I recommend a housecat (or two), though I know some do not
>> like keeping cats.  Maybe a ferret or a schnauzer?  My best ever
>> Gopher-Getter was a weimerainer who would sit for hours at the entrance to
>> a gopher burrow just to grab one... if allowed, she might have cleaned them
>> entirely out of the yard.   We limited her time OCDing out in front of
>> gopher holes... it was hard to watch.
>>
>> Or maybe a bullsnake (or one of many other rodent-eating varieties)?
>> On 1/3/23 11:52 AM, Tom Johnson wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, I buy traps from Amazon a couple dozen at a time.
>>
>> ===
>> Tom Johnson
>> Inst. for Analytic Journalism
>> Santa Fe, New Mexico
>> 505-577-6482
>> ===
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2023, 10:45 AM Gillian Densmore 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Another surge of mice Q: For all of Dismember  i've had nothing but an
>>> ongoing trickle of mice. what the is going on here? Is anyone else having
>>> mice issues as well?
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Re: [FRIAM] keep getting mice.

[Gillian Densmore]

use-mice... so killing (or
> hauling far away) the ones we catch probably doesn't change that much.   I
> now wish I hadn't moved the three bullsnakes I caught eating eggs in our
> chicken coop across the rio grande, but invited them to live in the
> sunroom... I think they are better (yet) mousers than a cat.
>
> We now have a fresh mouser who doesn't have continuous free access to the
> sunroom (lest the buggers re-invade the house proper) but who does spend
> time out there stalking the hell out of every nook and cranny... she hasn't
> caught any yet (though she did help catch a few who had gotten into the
> house before we could trap them).
>
> My best recommendation is to eliminate any food-attractive-nuisances
> (refrigerator, cupboard, animal-tight containers, etc), make sure you have
> no known extgerior wall-penetrations (even the tiniest cracks they seem to
> squeeze through) and then go on a trapping frenzy...  clean up any trace of
> mice ASAP so that you *know* if you have any left as you trap them down to
> near zero.   And I recommend a housecat (or two), though I know some do not
> like keeping cats.  Maybe a ferret or a schnauzer?  My best ever
> Gopher-Getter was a weimerainer who would sit for hours at the entrance to
> a gopher burrow just to grab one... if allowed, she might have cleaned them
> entirely out of the yard.   We limited her time OCDing out in front of
> gopher holes... it was hard to watch.
>
> Or maybe a bullsnake (or one of many other rodent-eating varieties)?
> On 1/3/23 11:52 AM, Tom Johnson wrote:
>
> Yeah, I buy traps from Amazon a couple dozen at a time.
>
> ===
> Tom Johnson
> Inst. for Analytic Journalism
> Santa Fe, New Mexico
> 505-577-6482
> ===
>
> On Mon, Jan 2, 2023, 10:45 AM Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
>> Another surge of mice Q: For all of Dismember  i've had nothing but an
>> ongoing trickle of mice. what the is going on here? Is anyone else having
>> mice issues as well?
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Re: [FRIAM] keep getting mice.

[Gillian Densmore]

wilight and beyond) until we were down to rarely seeing more
>> than two chasing through the room... and catching one per night.   Hole
>> after potential hole was plugged during this time.   And yet they keep
>> coming.   There is a chance these are recycling, we haven't gone to the
>> effort of notching their ears or painting their tails or anything.   My
>> experience in this environment is that there will always be dozens
>> (hundreds) of field mice aspiring to become house-mice... so killing (or
>> hauling far away) the ones we catch probably doesn't change that much.   I
>> now wish I hadn't moved the three bullsnakes I caught eating eggs in our
>> chicken coop across the rio grande, but invited them to live in the
>> sunroom... I think they are better (yet) mousers than a cat.
>>
>> We now have a fresh mouser who doesn't have continuous free access to the
>> sunroom (lest the buggers re-invade the house proper) but who does spend
>> time out there stalking the hell out of every nook and cranny... she hasn't
>> caught any yet (though she did help catch a few who had gotten into the
>> house before we could trap them).
>>
>> My best recommendation is to eliminate any food-attractive-nuisances
>> (refrigerator, cupboard, animal-tight containers, etc), make sure you have
>> no known extgerior wall-penetrations (even the tiniest cracks they seem to
>> squeeze through) and then go on a trapping frenzy...  clean up any trace of
>> mice ASAP so that you *know* if you have any left as you trap them down to
>> near zero.   And I recommend a housecat (or two), though I know some do not
>> like keeping cats.  Maybe a ferret or a schnauzer?  My best ever
>> Gopher-Getter was a weimerainer who would sit for hours at the entrance to
>> a gopher burrow just to grab one... if allowed, she might have cleaned them
>> entirely out of the yard.   We limited her time OCDing out in front of
>> gopher holes... it was hard to watch.
>>
>> Or maybe a bullsnake (or one of many other rodent-eating varieties)?
>> On 1/3/23 11:52 AM, Tom Johnson wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, I buy traps from Amazon a couple dozen at a time.
>>
>> ===
>> Tom Johnson
>> Inst. for Analytic Journalism
>> Santa Fe, New Mexico
>> 505-577-6482
>> ===
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2023, 10:45 AM Gillian Densmore 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Another surge of mice Q: For all of Dismember  i've had nothing but an
>>> ongoing trickle of mice. what the is going on here? Is anyone else having
>>> mice issues as well?
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>>>
>>
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Re: [FRIAM] keep getting mice.

[Gillian Densmore]

I think my aunts friend had one for a while. Aunt couldn't go to the house
after sometime because they're infamous for a musky, and generally strange
BO. My cat was awful about playing with what ever he was hunting! Turned
out he was a birder more so than a mouse cat. Partiall proven because he'd
happly snake my baked chicken for dinner if I didn't watch him. He also
would try to catch birds chasing a cat and birdS out of a house, and the
casita? about how I imagine it's like to caclulate and derive  orbital
dynamics by hand.
LOL and he also tried to catch a lil baby bat while ma'n pa where teaching
JR how to get bugs.JR found a rafter in the casita Imagine calling animal
control at 6 am with: uh yeah I have some bats in my house, and my cat
keeps trying to hunt them.
I'm pretty bad about just yeeting the trap into the trash. with everything
in it. while going: ew ewewewew Fdge!

On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 3:21 PM Steve Smith  wrote:

> Gil -
>
> Ferrets can be very unpleasant to smell...  I had a stepdaughter who kept
> two (along with a half-dozen cats and gawd knows what other pet-hoarding my
> mind has blanked on over 30 years ago).   They also are totally nocturnal
> and will romp *all night*, especially if there are more than one (or have a
> cat or a dog to harass/play with).   I'm sure ferrets (if they get outside)
> are hell on birds (especially eggs?), housecats (if they get outside) can
> be pretty bad too.   I think Ferrets will consume their prey unlike cats
> who will play with them for hours and hours and then bring at least a
> partial carcass to you as a gift.  Snakes even more better at
> full-consumption,  I understand they can defer defecation until 99% is
> digested?...
>
> I'm too frugal to throw kill-traps away, but you could follow Tom's advice
> and I'd bet by the time you threw a dozen traps (with head-crushed mice in
> them) into the trash, you might be done with them (for this season)... or a
> handful of kill traps re-used nightly might rid you over a week's time.   I
> don't know how territorial they are but I get the feeling that I never have
> more than *one* family in my house when they do infiltrate...  but their
> reproduction rate is pretty extreme and one family can become dozens in a
> short time.
>
>
> On 1/3/23 2:47 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote:
>
> Steve, those are all great tips. I'll run a fine tooth come through the
> house. Their's this area by the coffee maker at the front they try to hide
> in as well as I think somehow behind a rubermaid recycle bin. lol a ferret?
> not a bad idea. Kim swears by his pet cat for keeping mice out. LOL one of
> my doctors tells me how his pet beagle  chases mice around. I guess the
> pooch also OCD's on anything not Human and barks or tries to hunt them.
> I've read tht ferrets can make preem pets, as long as you can keep them
> from getting bored. I think Santa Fe isn't fond of people having them
> forpets something about birds.
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 2:18 PM Steve Smith  wrote:
>
>>
>> Gil -
>>
>>  To misquote Leonard Cohen: "There is a crack in everything, that is how
>> the mice get in".
>>
>> I have lived with mouse-flux all of my time in my current (rural)property
>> 20 years).  The mice (and ground squirrels and packrats) in the environs
>> require that I remain vigilant to keep them living outside my home.   This
>> has involved a lot of care around making sure that doors fit (and close)
>> tight and that any wall-penetrations (dryer vent, etc) be well
>> managed/screened, etc.
>>
>> Virtually *every* Fall I recognize that one or more mice have taken up
>> residence in some nook or cranny inside my house...  evidenced primarily by
>> foodstuffs nibbled on my counter and of course "droppings".  Sometimes the
>> sight or sound of scurrying.   If I trap these invaders quickly enough I
>> don't have a whole family (or several) and even worse, multiple generations
>> take up residence.   I've been a vegetarian most of my life but I still
>> would stoop to kill-traps to stop this business right away.  When Mary
>> moved here (5 years ago now) her (yet) softer heart lead me to buy a decent
>> no-kill trap which was limited to a single-catch per night nominally.   It
>> still worked.   Equally important for me has been to have a live
>> mousing-cat in the house... even though I've never had one catch/kill more
>> than one or two in a season, I think the presence and threat helps to
>> reduce the number of mice willing to force their way in when the
>> opportunity is found... I don't know if any voluntarily move back out once
>> they realize what they are facing.
>>
>> Last winter I finally buttoned up a sunroom I'd

[FRIAM] Wtf. Is going on with pnm

[Gillian Densmore]

No power all gd. Day and those Slackware. Penis breaths keep fing. With
when I get my gd. Lights back.
Can we pls fire them.?
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Re: [FRIAM] First Sign of Spring

[Gillian Densmore]

Spring?
or did you mean cogs?
or winter?
or yes cogs in the winter?

On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 11:10 AM George Duncan  wrote:

> For lots of detail check out
> Sunrise and sunset times in New Mexico (timeanddate.com)
> 
>
> George Duncan
> Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University
> georgeduncanart.com
> See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
> Land: (505) 983-6895
> Mobile: (505) 469-4671
>
> My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order and
> luminous chaos.
>
> "Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. It may
> then be a valuable delusion."
> From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard Diebenkorn.
>
> "It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our truest
> power." Joanna Macy.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 11:05 AM Frank Wimberly 
> wrote:
>
>> But the shortest day is around the 21st so that means that sunrise must
>> be later than usual at this time.  Right?
>>
>> ---
>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>
>> 505 670-9918
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022, 9:43 AM Nicholas Thompson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Today is the shortest afternoon of the year.  Tomorrow, the afternoons
>>> will start getting longer by a few msec.  Unclear whether this is because
>>> the sun is setting later or noon is occurring earlier, but we'll take it.
>>> Welcome to Spring, 2023!
>>>
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Re: [FRIAM] THUam

[Gillian Densmore]

spring? do you meen winter?

On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 12:25 PM Nicholas Thompson 
wrote:

> I am holding the meeting open for another half an hour or so in case
> anybody wants to rant a rant.  Not  feeling very ranty myself today.
> I know.
>
> Nice spring day here in Santa fe.
>
> n
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Re: [FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement

[Gillian Densmore]

Gotcha!
I don't know man. You can swim in the same water used to cool rods because
water  close to the rods blocks neutrons. My concern about  the DOE putting
so many eggs in the fusion basket and ignoring the day to day year to year.
Breeder reactors as a proven reliable start aren't without their own
issues. not the least of witch is the production of weaponizable fissile
materials (:( ) .
And yeah you bring up a good point need something like CERN or the Large
Hagon collider to get even enough raw material to heat a tea cup for 30
minutes.
Do you know if that's something we can over come?
I guess i'm staring in mortified terror that global warming is here.
needing just a few huge changes. I mean don't get me wrong fusion has huge
potential. But at the same time Fission is here. just to get the proverbial
ball rolling it'd be pretty sweet to start with that wouldn't it?

On Thu, Dec 15, 2022, 6:22 PM Barry MacKichan 
wrote:

> I am a long-time environmentalist (I think I joined the Wilderness Society
> in the early 60’s) and I opposed fission power plants because of safety
> issues and because of the long-lived waste products. My feeling is that
> even if you make the probability of a screw-up very low, given 10,000
> yearsm *something* will happen.
>
> Now with global warming imminent, I support some fission plants as a
> back-up to solar and wind (and tide, …) generators.
>
> The problem with antimatter is, what kind of bottle will you put it in?
> Also, to make antimatter, you need to put as much (actually more:
> conservation of energy — bummer) into it as you will get out, so one step
> forward, then one and a half back.
>
> --Barry
>
> On 15 Dec 2022, at 16:28, Gillian Densmore wrote:
>
> Ok so this is cool and all.
> Sigh I'll ask *that* question. We want less carbons because the planet is
> on f'n fire <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFgBFYkBZ6E>  . As far as I
> know humans (in the very least) accelerated climate change. Ie we made this
> mess clean it up. ok fair so far I'm following.
> So uh why not just start with fission (breeders) ? Why not also put as
> much money into matter/anti matter as well as fusion? We can make minute
> amounts of antimatter in massive collider. I'd think something who's by
> product are xrays gamma and some other stuff with a lot of energy created
> would be a massive honney pot the department of energy would pursue as well.
> I know the answer to fission (sadly) is NIMBY. (yes but it's a lot cleaner
> and safer than oil and coal I say)
> I don't know why we haven't looked at other things as well
> What I'm saying is fusion has been humans icarus wings with it being just
> arround the corner for decades. while matter/anti matter is (sort of) here.
> Fission is here. Want zero carbons? cool! so why not build out a ton of
> reactors we already can do. Or am I missing something?
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 8:31 AM Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
>> How ICF might evolve into a power plant:
>>
>>   https://firstlightfusion.com/technology/power-plant
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2022, at 7:16 AM, glen  wrote:
>>
>> Excellent! Thanks. I think I'll have to push this topic for another
>> day. I've got a few more links from other fora I'll plop here just in case
>> I only land back here if/when I pop it off the stack later:
>>
>>
>> https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/magnetized-targets-boost-nif-implosion-performance
>>
>> https://spie.org/news/nuclear-fusion-nifs-hall-of-mirrors-may-solve-worlds-energy-crisis?SSO=1
>>
>> https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-power-may-run-fuel-even-gets-started
>>
>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/what-enabled-the-big-boost-in-fusion-energy-announced-this-week/
>>
>> On 12/13/22 16:23, Steve Smith wrote:
>>
>> I think DT refers simply to the remaining fraction of Deuterium/Tritium
>> remaining after the reaction event (-4%) without specific accounting for
>> remaining D vs T.
>>
>> My understanding is that D-T  fusion occurs at a lower temperature than
>> D-D but that once fusion commences (starting with D-T), both D-T and D-D
>> reactions occurring in similar amounts. In laser-driven ICF (as with NIF) I
>> believe the ratio of D/T is nominally 50/50 though it would seem to make
>> sense to have a higher T to D ratio but most references I see imply equal
>> portions.   An equal number of D-D and D-T reactions would seem to consume
>> D more quickly, though as that commences, the D/T ratio would go down,
>> making D-T reactions (yet) more likely...   tricky business, no wonder it
>> has taken decades to get to this point?
>>
>> The Wikipedia Entry on ICF is pretty good:

Re: [FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement

[Gillian Densmore]

Ok so this is cool and all.
Sigh I'll ask *that* question. We want less carbons because the planet is
on f'n fire   . As far as I
know humans (in the very least) accelerated climate change. Ie we made this
mess clean it up. ok fair so far I'm following.
So uh why not just start with fission (breeders) ? Why not also put as much
money into matter/anti matter as well as fusion? We can make minute amounts
of antimatter in massive collider. I'd think something who's by product are
xrays gamma and some other stuff with a lot of energy created would be a
massive honney pot the department of energy would pursue as well.
I know the answer to fission (sadly) is NIMBY. (yes but it's a lot cleaner
and safer than oil and coal I say)
I don't know why we haven't looked at other things as well
What I'm saying is fusion has been humans icarus wings with it being just
arround the corner for decades. while matter/anti matter is (sort of) here.
Fission is here. Want zero carbons? cool! so why not build out a ton of
reactors we already can do. Or am I missing something?

On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 8:31 AM Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> How ICF might evolve into a power plant:
>
>   https://firstlightfusion.com/technology/power-plant
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 14, 2022, at 7:16 AM, glen  wrote:
>
> Excellent! Thanks. I think I'll have to push this topic for another day.
> I've got a few more links from other fora I'll plop here just in case I
> only land back here if/when I pop it off the stack later:
>
>
> https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/magnetized-targets-boost-nif-implosion-performance
>
> https://spie.org/news/nuclear-fusion-nifs-hall-of-mirrors-may-solve-worlds-energy-crisis?SSO=1
>
> https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-power-may-run-fuel-even-gets-started
>
> https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/what-enabled-the-big-boost-in-fusion-energy-announced-this-week/
>
> On 12/13/22 16:23, Steve Smith wrote:
>
> I think DT refers simply to the remaining fraction of Deuterium/Tritium
> remaining after the reaction event (-4%) without specific accounting for
> remaining D vs T.
>
> My understanding is that D-T  fusion occurs at a lower temperature than
> D-D but that once fusion commences (starting with D-T), both D-T and D-D
> reactions occurring in similar amounts. In laser-driven ICF (as with NIF) I
> believe the ratio of D/T is nominally 50/50 though it would seem to make
> sense to have a higher T to D ratio but most references I see imply equal
> portions.   An equal number of D-D and D-T reactions would seem to consume
> D more quickly, though as that commences, the D/T ratio would go down,
> making D-T reactions (yet) more likely...   tricky business, no wonder it
> has taken decades to get to this point?
>
> The Wikipedia Entry on ICF is pretty good:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_confinement_fusion
>
> I found several popular science Articles which seem to reinforce my sense
> that this "breakthrough" is not as significant as implied:
>
>
> https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-breakthrough-nif-uh-not-really
>
> Other interesting/relevant links regarding D-T and D-D fusion...
>
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263507001_Species_separation_and_modification_of_neutron_diagnostics_in_inertial-confinement_fusion/figures?lo=1
>
> https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions <
> https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions>
>
> https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html
> <
> https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html
> >
>
> On 12/13/22 4:36 PM, glen wrote:
>
> That's why I asked. I guess I'll assume DT means both deuterium and
> tritium, not just deuterium. If you were going to track fuel use, you'd
> track the rarer part more closely, right?
>
>
> On 12/13/22 09:22, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>
> DT = deuterium?
>
>
> ---
>
> Frank C. Wimberly
>
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
>
> 505 670-9918
>
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 10:21 AM glen  geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Awesome. Thanks. I'm still trying to catch up with the QC Wormhole
> kerfuffle. Who knew Quanta was so click baity?
>
>
> What is "DT"?
>
>
> On 12/13/22 09:02, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>
>  > In case no one wanted to get up at 7:00am to watch DOE
> administrators talk:
>
>  >
>
>  >
>
>  > 1. Controlling the laser in space and time was important for
> maintaining symmetry.  Timing precision of 25e-12 secs and laser spatial
> precision of 5e-12 meter were needed. This was thought to be the main
> explanation for the achievement.
>
>  >
>
>  > 2. 8% more power on the laser this time
>
>  >
>
>  > 3. x-ray tomography is used to find flaws in the capsules.
> Developing software to do the counting.
>
>  >
>
>  > 4. They have ongoing efforts to study the fabrication systems and
> their 

[FRIAM] yet another global warming thread

[Gillian Densmore]

Ok so my brain hurts a little now.
We as humans in the very least accelerated climate change because to many
carbons is bad. ok cool. got that.
-Fusion is the new hotness.
And here we have the problem:
What's with avoiding research into if matter/antimatter would be practical?
-Fusion (for now) is not practical
Fission is. If we don't want more cabins from coal plants. What's stopping
us from either bringing back online, and or building breeder reactor
plants? is it just NIMBY and feers of a 3 mile island? or is their some
other deeper problem to fission breeder reactors?
I meen I don't know man if you were to tell me: hey: for the same cost of
lifetime of clean up and PR costs of one coal plant you can refurbish 2
fission plants and as a bonus have some of the cleanest air quality
available. I'd say yes. but then I think Fission(breeder style) Is super
duper cool. Hell you can swim in water used for cooling "spent" rods.

Back to our regularly scheduled debates about the meaning of life.
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Re: [FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement

[Gillian Densmore]

gt; via wires?
>
> my SF addled brain conjures a snow-piercer
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.tntdrama.com%2fsnowpiercer=E,1,3632M-ARYoh18WP4Ebg9xB7ZSdj5vN7EfteAgA48GjtVg9HnSQwm-8NYZq16dpKsqI3NXxIlv9VWQRQ5t-Lf__nO18TM9jkB_qZEUbaE=1>
> style earth-circumscribing rail-line... the pylons can be driven so deep
> into the earth's crust that they are tapped into the earth's inner heat,
> the rails can be the DC conduit Marcus suggests.   There can be as many
> windmills and tidal turbines placed along the line as one feels they
> need/can-afford/stand-to-see as well as a PV/thermo solar continuous
> collector/shade-roof which can also enhance gradient by radiating into the
> (2.73-273 deg K
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fphysics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f153839%2fwhat-is-the-temperature-of-the-clear-night-sky-from-the-surface-of-earth=E,1,Mym_MVP2YQQpG8ShnGwNgqA7mlDs-14HRuNLYPSrS_TLcWTQJS93tLKc4WuPtM4hKFR6eL-VrRsD-AeTXOFgpPm7pZnaTZp62gbUe8d3bxk3j7LI9ZTRZjXrHA,,=1>)
> sky at night.   The Snowpiercer rail-cars can move (make them pneumatic or
> evacuated-ballistic (~18mi/sec?)) physical goods and materials
> continuously...   (thank you Elon Musk).  Mount a few Spinlaunch
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.spinlaunch.com%2f=E,1,MOTshsb7TvaaZ3PnkdVodS1gcu9F7R_4CgYU2PKnxxnEl1alwhxwZZvlgvTDntZXW0c2_jWEyWazC5Q0iiFKcDMQ6dKv7VFywXQXnP6W-gqfLUIwrenxbQ,,=1>
> units on train units and squirt things into orbit at-will?
>
> Wait, maybe it can become a strip-city modeled on SA's "Line"
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Line,_Saudi_Arabia>... at 100 miles
> long and 9million population, the circumferential "line" would be 240 times
> as long and have a carrying capacity of >2 Billion based on their predicted
> precedent.Place three of these orthogonal to one another like an armillary
> sphere <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armillary_sphere> and we are up to
> 6B?   A modest bump in scale (cube root of 1.5) could accommodate 9B!   A
> few of us (DaveW, GaryS, ... myself)  rebellious non-urban renegades could
> live in the remaining landscape NOT covered by these 3 circumscribing strip
> cities and live our lives in the spirit of Sean Connery's character Zed in
> Zardoz <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070948/>!
>
> Heck, just a nice precursor to Larry Niven's Ringworld
> <https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a11183/could-we-build-a-ringworld-17166651/>
> tell Musk he can keep his claims to Mars... at least until the rest of us
> need the mass to integrate into a proper Dyson Sphere
> <https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a11098/dyson-sphere/>
> ...
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 10:46 AM Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
> frank: ah! thanks. It seems like you've had 99 lives man.
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 12:28 AM Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
> I like the idea of a large transatlantic DC power cable.   That would
> enable solar power to be distributed around the world.   It would reduce
> the need to depend on batteries for wind and solar.   Of course, you raise
> #3, so it would be a target for sabotage like with Nordstream.  It would be
> nice to think there are things just to valuable to destroy, but probably
> there are no such things.
> --
> *From:* Friam  on behalf of Sarbajit Roy <
> sroy...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, December 16, 2022 12:01 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement
>
> What you are missing includes
> 1) Disposal of long term hazardous nuclear waste.
> 2) Problems in maintaining / decommissioning ol older nuclear
> fission plants
> 3) Examples like we are seeing Ukraine's nuclear plants caught up in a war.
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 2:59 AM Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
> Ok so this is cool and all.
> Sigh I'll ask *that* question. We want less carbons because the planet is
> on f'n fire <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFgBFYkBZ6E>  . As far as I
> know humans (in the very least) accelerated climate change. Ie we made this
> mess clean it up. ok fair so far I'm following.
> So uh why not just start with fission (breeders) ? Why not also put as
> much money into matter/anti matter as well as fusion? We can make minute
> amounts of antimatter in massive collider. I'd think something who's by
> product are xrays gamma and some other stuff with a lot of energy created
> would be a massive honney pot the department of energy would pursue as well.
> I know the answer to fission (sadly) is NIMBY. (yes but it's a lot cleaner
> and safer than oil and c

Re: [FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement

[Gillian Densmore]

frank: ah! thanks. It seems like you've had 99 lives man.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 12:28 AM Marcus Daniels 
wrote:

> I like the idea of a large transatlantic DC power cable.   That would
> enable solar power to be distributed around the world.   It would reduce
> the need to depend on batteries for wind and solar.   Of course, you raise
> #3, so it would be a target for sabotage like with Nordstream.  It would be
> nice to think there are things just to valuable to destroy, but probably
> there are no such things.
> --
> *From:* Friam  on behalf of Sarbajit Roy <
> sroy...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, December 16, 2022 12:01 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement
>
> What you are missing includes
> 1) Disposal of long term hazardous nuclear waste.
> 2) Problems in maintaining / decommissioning ol older nuclear
> fission plants
> 3) Examples like we are seeing Ukraine's nuclear plants caught up in a war.
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 2:59 AM Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
> Ok so this is cool and all.
> Sigh I'll ask *that* question. We want less carbons because the planet is
> on f'n fire <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFgBFYkBZ6E>  . As far as I
> know humans (in the very least) accelerated climate change. Ie we made this
> mess clean it up. ok fair so far I'm following.
> So uh why not just start with fission (breeders) ? Why not also put as
> much money into matter/anti matter as well as fusion? We can make minute
> amounts of antimatter in massive collider. I'd think something who's by
> product are xrays gamma and some other stuff with a lot of energy created
> would be a massive honney pot the department of energy would pursue as well.
> I know the answer to fission (sadly) is NIMBY. (yes but it's a lot cleaner
> and safer than oil and coal I say)
> I don't know why we haven't looked at other things as well
> What I'm saying is fusion has been humans icarus wings with it being just
> arround the corner for decades. while matter/anti matter is (sort of) here.
> Fission is here. Want zero carbons? cool! so why not build out a ton of
> reactors we already can do. Or am I missing something?
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 8:31 AM Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
> How ICF might evolve into a power plant:
>
>   https://firstlightfusion.com/technology/power-plant
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 14, 2022, at 7:16 AM, glen  wrote:
>
> Excellent! Thanks. I think I'll have to push this topic for another day.
> I've got a few more links from other fora I'll plop here just in case I
> only land back here if/when I pop it off the stack later:
>
>
> https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/magnetized-targets-boost-nif-implosion-performance
>
> https://spie.org/news/nuclear-fusion-nifs-hall-of-mirrors-may-solve-worlds-energy-crisis?SSO=1
>
> https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-power-may-run-fuel-even-gets-started
>
> https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/what-enabled-the-big-boost-in-fusion-energy-announced-this-week/
>
> On 12/13/22 16:23, Steve Smith wrote:
>
> I think DT refers simply to the remaining fraction of Deuterium/Tritium
> remaining after the reaction event (-4%) without specific accounting for
> remaining D vs T.
>
> My understanding is that D-T  fusion occurs at a lower temperature than
> D-D but that once fusion commences (starting with D-T), both D-T and D-D
> reactions occurring in similar amounts. In laser-driven ICF (as with NIF) I
> believe the ratio of D/T is nominally 50/50 though it would seem to make
> sense to have a higher T to D ratio but most references I see imply equal
> portions.   An equal number of D-D and D-T reactions would seem to consume
> D more quickly, though as that commences, the D/T ratio would go down,
> making D-T reactions (yet) more likely...   tricky business, no wonder it
> has taken decades to get to this point?
>
> The Wikipedia Entry on ICF is pretty good:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_confinement_fusion
>
> I found several popular science Articles which seem to reinforce my sense
> that this "breakthrough" is not as significant as implied:
>
>
> https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-breakthrough-nif-uh-not-really
>
> Other interesting/relevant links regarding D-T and D-D fusion...
>
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263507001_Species_separation_and_modification_of_neutron_diagnostics_in_inertial-confinement_fusion/figures?lo=1
>
> https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions <
> https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions>
>
> 

Re: [FRIAM] Who wrote the essay?

[Gillian Densmore]

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 12:20 PM Carl Tollander  wrote:

> Inconsistent use of punctuation.  Run-on sentences.  Human, or a chatbot
> that's trying too hard to look human.
>
> C
>
I thought bad prose. Amature writing and archiach, random use of
punctualization was my job :P

>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 11:39 AM Nicholas Thompson <
> thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think it's a human.   No selfrespecting bot could write that badly.
>>
>> n
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:09 PM Tom Johnson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/5722102/posts/pfbid0D8i4GuCUJeRsDJjM1JJtfkDYDMCb7Y7RdK2EoyVhRuctg9z2fhvpo1bB2WAxGBzcl/?sfnsn=mo=ijjfgs
>>>
>>> ===
>>> Tom Johnson
>>> Inst. for Analytic Journalism
>>> Santa Fe, New Mexico
>>> 505-577-6482
>>> ===
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
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>>>
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>>
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Re: [FRIAM] Who wrote the essay?

[Gillian Densmore]

I also somehow feel that calling using a chatbot for writing isn't
plagiarism. Clever and to slacker maybe. Definatly not in the spirit of a
human in the loop doing the typing or dictation to prove they didn't
completely sleep in class. Just that Plagiarism is inherently taking a
humans thing and saying you made that thing. Or does this also cover Ai as
well?


Sigh and just to be *that  *kind of person. I kind of feel this teacher is
wiffing on the chance to use this (and likely other) papers as part of a
object lesson in a class. (see Carl long sentences :P)  To be all like: now
class  if you use a chatbot as your paper, are thinking about it, just
don't lol.




On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 4:04 PM Gillian Densmore 
wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 12:20 PM Carl Tollander  wrote:
>
>> Inconsistent use of punctuation.  Run-on sentences.  Human, or a chatbot
>> that's trying too hard to look human.
>>
>> C
>>
> I thought bad prose. Amature writing and archiach, random use of
> punctualization was my job :P
>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 11:39 AM Nicholas Thompson <
>> thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think it's a human.   No selfrespecting bot could write that badly.
>>>
>>> n
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:09 PM Tom Johnson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.facebook.com/5722102/posts/pfbid0D8i4GuCUJeRsDJjM1JJtfkDYDMCb7Y7RdK2EoyVhRuctg9z2fhvpo1bB2WAxGBzcl/?sfnsn=mo=ijjfgs
>>>>
>>>> ===
>>>> Tom Johnson
>>>> Inst. for Analytic Journalism
>>>> Santa Fe, New Mexico
>>>> 505-577-6482
>>>> ===
>>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
>>>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>>>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>>> archives:  5/2017 thru present
>>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
>>>>   1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
>>>>
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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>>>
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>>
>
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Re: [FRIAM] Another spin on AI

[Gillian Densmore]

How on earth do you find these things? lol.
And two AI links in a row?
 are we sure you're not a bot? :P


On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 8:46 AM Tom Johnson  wrote:

>
> https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/12/12/1064751/the-viral-ai-avatar-app-lensa-undressed-me-without-my-consent/?utm_source=engagement_email_medium=email_campaign=wklysun_term=gift-promo1-121822_content=12.18.22.non-subs_eng_cid=89856a4cda_eid=4866eb5609
>
> ===
> Tom Johnson
> Inst. for Analytic Journalism
> Santa Fe, New Mexico
> 505-577-6482
> ===
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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> archives:  5/2017 thru present
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>
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