Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools - [I'm done with this crap]
Daniel Iliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joerg, as far as I can tell you need medical attention. Please, from now on do not annoy me with unwanted e-mail containing advertisements of cdrtools or information about the attacks against you. You ddid by accident remove cdrtools instead of the crap. But I can live without problems if you stop sending incorrect claims about cdrtools! Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools - [I'm done with this crap]
On Thursday 03 July 2008, Joerg Schilling wrote: Daniel Iliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joerg, as far as I can tell you need medical attention. Please, from now on do not annoy me with unwanted e-mail containing advertisements of cdrtools or information about the attacks against you. You ddid by accident remove cdrtools instead of the crap. Joerg: shut up. right now. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools - [I'm done with this crap]
* Joerg Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel Iliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joerg, as far as I can tell you need medical attention. Please, from now on do not annoy me with unwanted e-mail containing advertisements of cdrtools or information about the attacks against you. You ddid by accident remove cdrtools instead of the crap. damn, dont feed the trolls ! cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
* Joerg Schilling ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [01.07.08 10:50]: There _is_ an evil conspiracy at least on Suse. Suse told me that they cannot use unmodified original software and they need to modify my software. But that's not an evil conspiracy against you, that's the normal policy of SuSe: they have to modify everything until it is broken. I would not care too much about them... Sebastian -- Religion ist das Opium des Volkes. Karl Marx [EMAIL PROTECTED]@N GÜNTHER mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp2z6BkgqBNt.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
brullo nulla [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The FAQ (I assume you're talking about http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/linux-dist.html ) only contain basic information on your side, almost without a single reference that shows me the actual full text of the email exchanges etc. supporting what you say. The FAQ is not in chronological order and it is even self-contradicting in chronological details (e.g. it starts with In While the attacks from Debian have all been self contradicting, my text is not. It seems that you did not read it correctly. Please read it again autumn 2005 and early spring 2006, a group of Debian maintainers started to attack the cdrtools project. The attacks have been based on the fact that cdrtools was licensed under the GPL. then, in the The private attacks from Bloch in 2004 have been trolling because of the broken UTF-8 support now also fopund in cdrkit. The attacks from Debian in Autumn 2005 have been GPL based. Is it so hard to read my text? final part of the document, you talk about the UTF story: In fact, this happened around y2004 [...] Now these people have been in trouble and needed an excuse for their behavior. -from this it seems implicit the problems started in 2004). Only explanation you give for all what was happening is a commercial-distributions-are-evil conspiracy theory (which maybe is true, but I am again waiting for evidence -the theory is quite weak, since forking an essential desktop software seems *much worse* than rewriting UTF8 support, and they could have inserted their unofficial patch into their packages even if you refused it upstream, if they felt their UTF8 patch was important). There _is_ an evil conspiracy at least on Suse. Suse told me that they cannot use unmodified original software and they need to modify my software. If you compare my original software and the modified version from Suse, you will find that the unmodified original works out of the box on suse while the suse variant does not work at all. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
b.n. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He's not asking different things. Quotes from his mail: - When you changed the license. For what reason. Explain, please, why there is no problem to mix GPL with CDDL (for me personally it is the most interesting part) Now, if you want to be taken seriously, please answer to these questions. We have asked them several times. Why do you dance around them and never answer them? They should be very easy to answer, if your position is so solid. I have answered this question many times. As the question has the underlying implication that ther emight be a problem, I encourage you to first explain why _you_ believe that there might be a problem. It is much easier to confute a wrong claim than to explain why ther is obviously no problem. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
Daniel Iliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have written the program prog-a.c and published it on your site under the GNU GPL. I have _independently_ written the prog-b.c. Nex, I've found your program and liked it. I decide that your prog-a.c and my prog-b.c serve a common purpose and they complement one another. The question is if I can take your source (prog-a.c) from your site, put it into the same directory with my source (prog-b.c), make an archive of that directory and distribute the archive under CDDL? Why do you come up with a claim that is _completely_ unrelated to cdrtools? I am not a lawyer. If you like to get general legal advise, go to a lawyer! Do you have any question related to cdrtools? Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 11:30:11 +0200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joerg Schilling) wrote: Daniel Iliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have written the program prog-a.c and published it on your site under the GNU GPL. I have _independently_ written the prog-b.c. Nex, I've found your program and liked it. I decide that your prog-a.c and my prog-b.c serve a common purpose and they complement one another. The question is if I can take your source (prog-a.c) from your site, put it into the same directory with my source (prog-b.c), make an archive of that directory and distribute the archive under CDDL? Why do you come up with a claim that is _completely_ unrelated to cdrtools? Claim!? I was merely asking a question. Completely unrelated!? How about this: mkisofs.c: /* * Program mkisofs.c - generate iso9660 filesystem based upon directory * tree on hard disk. * * Written by Eric Youngdale (1993). * * Copyright 1993 Yggdrasil Computing, Incorporated * Copyright (c) 1999,2000-2007 J. Schilling * * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify * it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by * the Free Software Foundation; either version 2, or (at your option) * any later version. * So, you have used other people's GPLd work in your cdrtools project and CDDLd your own work in the same project. ... Completely unrelated? LOL I am not a lawyer. If you like to get general legal advise, go to a lawyer! Well, you're not a lawyer, but Novell and RedHat have lawyers and I believe they did not drop cdrtools in favour to cdrkit for technical reasons. After all you are the one convincing people all the time in the technical superiority of cdrtools. Do you have any question related to cdrtools? No, not really. Not any more. -- Best regards, Daniel -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
Daniel Iliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why do you come up with a claim that is _completely_ unrelated to cdrtools? Claim!? I was merely asking a question. Completely unrelated!? How about this: I recommend you to first inform yourself before asking in a way that just verifies that you don't know what you are talking about. This is where I cannot help you. You first need to do this homework yourself. After you know what you are talking about, I am sure you will not ask anymore. The cdrtools source comes with a lot of information that would help you if you read. Your mistake is to blindly follow the FUD from Eduard Bloch instead of first reading the facts. A good starting point is the file COPYING Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools - [I'm done with this crap]
Joerg, as far as I can tell you need medical attention. Please, from now on do not annoy me with unwanted e-mail containing advertisements of cdrtools or information about the attacks against you. I'm done with you and your product. == localhost ~ # emerge -C cdrtools ; emerge -1 cdrkit [CUT] app-cdr/cdrtools selected: 2.01.01_alpha34 protected: none omitted: none 'Selected' packages are slated for removal. 'Protected' and 'omitted' packages will not be removed. Unmerging app-cdr/cdrtools-2.01.01_alpha34... No package files given... Grabbing a set. [ CUT ] obj /usr/include/align.h obj /usr/bin/readcd obj /usr/bin/mkisofs obj /usr/bin/isovfy obj /usr/bin/isoinfo obj /usr/bin/isodump obj /usr/bin/devdump obj /usr/bin/cdrecord obj /usr/bin/cdda2wav obj /etc/default/rscsi.dfl obj /etc/default/cdrecord.dfl [CUT] Calculating dependencies ... .. done! Emerging (1 of 1) app-cdr/cdrkit-1.1.6 to / [CUT] Merging app-cdr/cdrkit-1.1.6 to / --- /etc/ /etc/wodim.conf /etc/netscsid.conf --- /usr/ --- /usr/sbin/ /usr/sbin/netscsid --- /usr/bin/ /usr/bin/readmult /usr/bin/devdump /usr/bin/icedax /usr/bin/pitchplay /usr/bin/readom /usr/bin/wodim /usr/bin/cdrecord - /usr/bin/wodim /usr/bin/isovfy /usr/bin/isoinfo /usr/bin/genisoimage /usr/bin/cdda2ogg /usr/bin/isodebug /usr/bin/cdda2mp3 /usr/bin/readcd - /usr/bin/readom /usr/bin/isodump /usr/bin/dirsplit [CUT] No packages selected for removal by clean Auto-cleaning packages... No outdated packages were found on your system. * GNU info directory index is up-to-date. == CHEERS! -- Best regards, Daniel -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
Daniel Iliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:47:31 +0200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joerg Schilling) wrote: You should carefully check the history to understand that most of the changes are speudo changes (like adding a space and later removing it again). I beg to differ. I don't have any reason to do anything at all. It is you who has to convince me that you are right. I did not ever send you mail asking or telling you anything. It is you who sends unwanted mails to advertise against cdrkit in favour of cdrtools to every thread about optical media in the list. That is called spam. If you are not interested in reality but only in what people pretend to do, then a further discussion with you does not seem to be useful. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
b.n. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel Iliev ha scritto: How about if you remake your site and explain everything there. What happened (chronologically and in detail) and provide evidence. Remake it to be clear with simple sentences and easy for finding the information. Then provide means (as web forum, mailing list etc) for the visitors to post their comments and questions. After all that is ready it would absolutely acceptable to participate in this and every other public list as a normal member and put links to your site in your signature. How about that? I want that too. I back the proposal of Iliev. Joerg, why don't you do that so that you can settle all this in the most informative way possible? I pointed you to the FAQ and I asked you to tell me what questions remain unanswered. I am sorry but I can only extend information if people tell me which information they like to see. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 11:00:39 +0200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joerg Schilling) wrote: b.n. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel Iliev ha scritto: How about if you remake your site and explain everything there. What happened (chronologically and in detail) and provide evidence. Remake it to be clear with simple sentences and easy for finding the information. Then provide means (as web forum, mailing list etc) for the visitors to post their comments and questions. After all that is ready it would absolutely acceptable to participate in this and every other public list as a normal member and put links to your site in your signature. How about that? I want that too. I back the proposal of Iliev. Joerg, why don't you do that so that you can settle all this in the most informative way possible? I pointed you to the FAQ and I asked you to tell me what questions remain unanswered. Sorry, never saw the message in which you ask what more info to publish. Perhaps I didn't receive it. I am sorry but I can only extend information if people tell me which information they like to see. Actually you can figure out which are the most FAQ from this thread, but let me help you for the start. Please, publish detailed information for the following events in chronological order: - When the first contact with the attackers took place and what was the reason for that contact - When the first attack took place and what (you suppose if you don't know for sure) was the reason for the attack. Describe the attack itself - what were the actions of those who attacked you - When other attacks (if any) took place. Describe them. - When you changed the license. For what reason. Explain, please, why there is no problem to mix GPL with CDDL (for me personally it is the most interesting part) - When the fork was launched - The exact statement of the lawyers you consulted - Any evidence (e-mails, posts to web forums, blogs, publications, etc) or reference to that evidence that you can provide That's what I could think off for the moment, but I'm sure others will fill in the gaps I've left. -- Best regards, Daniel -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Daniel Iliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 11:00:39 +0200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joerg Schilling) wrote: b.n. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel Iliev ha scritto: How about if you remake your site and explain everything there. What happened (chronologically and in detail) and provide evidence. Remake it to be clear with simple sentences and easy for finding the information. Then provide means (as web forum, mailing list etc) for the visitors to post their comments and questions. After all that is ready it would absolutely acceptable to participate in this and every other public list as a normal member and put links to your site in your signature. How about that? I want that too. I back the proposal of Iliev. Joerg, why don't you do that so that you can settle all this in the most informative way possible? I pointed you to the FAQ and I asked you to tell me what questions remain unanswered. Sorry, never saw the message in which you ask what more info to publish. Perhaps I didn't receive it. I am sorry but I can only extend information if people tell me which information they like to see. Actually you can figure out which are the most FAQ from this thread, but let me help you for the start. Please, publish detailed information for the following events in chronological order: - When the first contact with the attackers took place and what was the reason for that contact - When the first attack took place and what (you suppose if you don't know for sure) was the reason for the attack. Describe the attack itself - what were the actions of those who attacked you - When other attacks (if any) took place. Describe them. - When you changed the license. For what reason. Explain, please, why there is no problem to mix GPL with CDDL (for me personally it is the most interesting part) - When the fork was launched - The exact statement of the lawyers you consulted - Any evidence (e-mails, posts to web forums, blogs, publications, etc) or reference to that evidence that you can provide That's what I could think off for the moment, but I'm sure others will fill in the gaps I've left. Let me add: do not only *describe*. Post all *sources* that you have. Emails, chats, whatever. Otherwise it's just your word vs someone else, and we cannot decide. Give people the *facts*, and everything will come up by itself. m. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
Daniel Iliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually you can figure out which are the most FAQ from this thread, but let me help you for the start. Please, publish detailed information for the following events in chronological order: Please explain why you don't read the FAQ? All your questions are answered in the FAQ. If you don't read the available information, it seems that you like to turn this thread into a thread where you spread your FUD. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Joerg Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel Iliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually you can figure out which are the most FAQ from this thread, but let me help you for the start. Please, publish detailed information for the following events in chronological order: Please explain why you don't read the FAQ? All your questions are answered in the FAQ. If you don't read the available information, it seems that you like to turn this thread into a thread where you spread your FUD. The FAQ (I assume you're talking about http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/linux-dist.html ) only contain basic information on your side, almost without a single reference that shows me the actual full text of the email exchanges etc. supporting what you say. The FAQ is not in chronological order and it is even self-contradicting in chronological details (e.g. it starts with In autumn 2005 and early spring 2006, a group of Debian maintainers started to attack the cdrtools project. The attacks have been based on the fact that cdrtools was licensed under the GPL. then, in the final part of the document, you talk about the UTF story: In fact, this happened around y2004 [...] Now these people have been in trouble and needed an excuse for their behavior. -from this it seems implicit the problems started in 2004). Only explanation you give for all what was happening is a commercial-distributions-are-evil conspiracy theory (which maybe is true, but I am again waiting for evidence -the theory is quite weak, since forking an essential desktop software seems *much worse* than rewriting UTF8 support, and they could have inserted their unofficial patch into their packages even if you refused it upstream, if they felt their UTF8 patch was important). Anyway, I'm sure you can fix the FAQ and provide the full disclosed evidence, and everyone will be happier. m. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 09:46:41PM +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote: I've just read your outdated page It is not outdated. Since more than a year, there is no visible development in cdrkit. Not visible to you. cdrkit-1.1.8 at http://cdrkit.org/releases/ is dated 25.05.2008. It would be prudent for them to bring their website up-to-date, though. So I asume that they did not add new bugs. Maybe you should assume less and research more. http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/linux-dist.html. Where you listed specific bugs, I see they don't affect me (and can't imagine they'd affect most users). Most of what you cite as bugs are just features they haven't implemented yet (and for all I know, they have since you wrote that page). This is obviously FUD: Just because you don't already know that you are affected does not mean that you are not affected. Of course not. Even the linux-kernel mailing-list hasn't seen your light, yet. It would be fun to see you in 5 years after your then current OS won't read your DVDs anymore because of the bugs in the filesystem structure. It would be fun if you would finally stop trolling forums, newsgroups and mailing-lists and keep your FUD and ego problems to yourself. You obviously take it as a personal insult that cdrtools was snubbed by some distributions and that somebody else is working on a replacement. Your constant ridicule and insults of a project you shouldn't care about at all is very telling, considering the alleged superiority of your own project. Thankfully, the GPL allows forks to eventually get rid of project leaders like you. -- P.S. der neue Automat da oben ist echt ein Scherzkeks. Will Noten annehmen hat aber keinen Schlitz dafür. probier doch mal, was zu singen, vielleicht hat er ja ein Mikrofon -- Matthias Dingeldein in de.etc.bahn.misc -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
Heiko Nock wrote: On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 09:46:41PM +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote: I've just read your outdated page It is not outdated. Since more than a year, there is no visible development in cdrkit. Not visible to you. cdrkit-1.1.8 at http://cdrkit.org/releases/ is dated 25.05.2008. It would be prudent for them to bring their website up-to-date, though. So I asume that they did not add new bugs. Maybe you should assume less and research more. http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/linux-dist.html. Where you listed specific bugs, I see they don't affect me (and can't imagine they'd affect most users). Most of what you cite as bugs are just features they haven't implemented yet (and for all I know, they have since you wrote that page). This is obviously FUD: Just because you don't already know that you are affected does not mean that you are not affected. Of course not. Even the linux-kernel mailing-list hasn't seen your light, yet. It would be fun to see you in 5 years after your then current OS won't read your DVDs anymore because of the bugs in the filesystem structure. It would be fun if you would finally stop trolling forums, newsgroups and mailing-lists and keep your FUD and ego problems to yourself. You obviously take it as a personal insult that cdrtools was snubbed by some distributions and that somebody else is working on a replacement. Your constant ridicule and insults of a project you shouldn't care about at all is very telling, considering the alleged superiority of your own project. Thankfully, the GPL allows forks to eventually get rid of project leaders like you. I think it would be in everyone's best interests if we let this thread die now, I've been reading this thread for the past 2 or 3 days and frankly, it doesn't seem to be bringing anything of use to the ML. I don't want to get involved or takes anyone's side, but maybe the more mature readers can just let it go :) I doubt anyone will miss any benefit of this thread continuing. Just want to help keep this list with its feet on the ground :) -- Matt -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
Matt Harrison wrote: Heiko Nock wrote: On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 09:46:41PM +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote: I've just read your outdated page It is not outdated. Since more than a year, there is no visible development in cdrkit. Not visible to you. cdrkit-1.1.8 at http://cdrkit.org/releases/ is dated 25.05.2008. It would be prudent for them to bring their website up-to-date, though. So I asume that they did not add new bugs. Maybe you should assume less and research more. http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/linux-dist.html. Where you listed specific bugs, I see they don't affect me (and can't imagine they'd affect most users). Most of what you cite as bugs are just features they haven't implemented yet (and for all I know, they have since you wrote that page). This is obviously FUD: Just because you don't already know that you are affected does not mean that you are not affected. Of course not. Even the linux-kernel mailing-list hasn't seen your light, yet. It would be fun to see you in 5 years after your then current OS won't read your DVDs anymore because of the bugs in the filesystem structure. It would be fun if you would finally stop trolling forums, newsgroups and mailing-lists and keep your FUD and ego problems to yourself. You obviously take it as a personal insult that cdrtools was snubbed by some distributions and that somebody else is working on a replacement. Your constant ridicule and insults of a project you shouldn't care about at all is very telling, considering the alleged superiority of your own project. Thankfully, the GPL allows forks to eventually get rid of project leaders like you. I think it would be in everyone's best interests if we let this thread die now, I've been reading this thread for the past 2 or 3 days and frankly, it doesn't seem to be bringing anything of use to the ML. I don't want to get involved or takes anyone's side, but maybe the more mature readers can just let it go :) I doubt anyone will miss any benefit of this thread continuing. Just want to help keep this list with its feet on the ground :) -- Matt Sorry, maybe my reply was actually destined for the CD ROM does not play audio CD's thread, but I think it goes for both. *hides under a stone* -- Matt -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:01:59 +0200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joerg Schilling) wrote: What people with english mothertonge believe is a courtesy, is usually seen as a underlying attack by Germans. Try to just be direct and there will be less missunderstanding. I'll be as direct as possible. Please, do the same. I've read your site but I could not find the info I'm looking for. Please, quote the following two lines and provide the relevant text under each of them. Line 1: Why do you think there is no problem to mix GPL with CDDL? Line 2: Full quotation of the lawyers' conclusion -- Best regards, Daniel -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
Daniel Iliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll be as direct as possible. Please, do the same. I've read your site but I could not find the info I'm looking for. Please, quote the following two lines and provide the relevant text under each of them. Line 1: Why do you think there is no problem to mix GPL with CDDL? Line 2: Full quotation of the lawyers' conclusion Why do you start a new round and why are you now asking for completely different things? Did you read the GPL to understand what the GPL allows? No non-GPL source is based on or derived from GPL code. If you claim that there is a problem, it would be _you_ who needs to prove this claim. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
Joerg Schilling ha scritto: Daniel Iliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll be as direct as possible. Please, do the same. I've read your site but I could not find the info I'm looking for. Please, quote the following two lines and provide the relevant text under each of them. Line 1: Why do you think there is no problem to mix GPL with CDDL? Line 2: Full quotation of the lawyers' conclusion Why do you start a new round and why are you now asking for completely different things? He's not asking different things. Quotes from his mail: - When you changed the license. For what reason. Explain, please, why there is no problem to mix GPL with CDDL (for me personally it is the most interesting part) - The exact statement of the lawyers you consulted Now, if you want to be taken seriously, please answer to these questions. We have asked them several times. Why do you dance around them and never answer them? They should be very easy to answer, if your position is so solid. Did you read the GPL to understand what the GPL allows? No non-GPL source is based on or derived from GPL code. If you claim that there is a problem, it would be _you_ who needs to prove this claim. What do you not understand of the word explain, Joerg? m. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
Matt Harrison ha scritto: I think it would be in everyone's best interests if we let this thread die now, I've been reading this thread for the past 2 or 3 days and frankly, it doesn't seem to be bringing anything of use to the ML. I don't want to get involved or takes anyone's side, but maybe the more mature readers can just let it go :) I doubt anyone will miss any benefit of this thread continuing. I disagree. CD/DVD burning is an important piece of software for a free system. It has no little importance to understand what software of this kind can be distributed, and how, and if there are problems. Maybe the Gentoo mailing list is not the best place to discuss that, but since mr.Schilling is here, and the discussion started, better go on with it until a solution comes out. At least, next time this discussion comes up, we hope to provide a quick link and settle the question. So let's chase this thread to the end, once for all, if possible. m. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 00:25:16 +0200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joerg Schilling) wrote: Why do you start a new round and why are you now asking for completely different things? I'm not asking different things. The question about the licenses is the most important for me and I've asked that same question all the time. It's just that now for the first time you partially gave an answer. No non-GPL source is based on or derived from GPL code. OK. This is close to what I'm asking, but not exactly. Anyways, I'm glad to see you finally participating in this discussion. Let me make my question even more clear with an oversimplified example: You have written the program prog-a.c and published it on your site under the GNU GPL. I have _independently_ written the prog-b.c. Nex, I've found your program and liked it. I decide that your prog-a.c and my prog-b.c serve a common purpose and they complement one another. The question is if I can take your source (prog-a.c) from your site, put it into the same directory with my source (prog-b.c), make an archive of that directory and distribute the archive under CDDL? I think it is forbidden, because prog-a.c is published under the GNU GPL, which means you give me the right to distribute your work only under terms of the GNU GPL. Am I wrong? -- Best regards, Daniel -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:13:51 +0200 b.n. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt Harrison ha scritto: I think it would be in everyone's best interests if we let this thread die now, I've been reading this thread for the past 2 or 3 days and frankly, it doesn't seem to be bringing anything of use to the ML. I don't want to get involved or takes anyone's side, but maybe the more mature readers can just let it go :) I doubt anyone will miss any benefit of this thread continuing. I disagree. CD/DVD burning is an important piece of software for a free system. It has no little importance to understand what software of this kind can be distributed, and how, and if there are problems. Maybe the Gentoo mailing list is not the best place to discuss that, but since mr.Schilling is here, and the discussion started, better go on with it until a solution comes out. At least, next time this discussion comes up, we hope to provide a quick link and settle the question. So let's chase this thread to the end, once for all, if possible. m. Absolutely. Otherwise we would have wasted out time for nothing and after a while it will start again. I believe it is best to go to the bottom of this discussion now, so this whole nightmare won't repeat itself again. -- Best regards, Daniel -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
»Q« [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've just read your outdated page It is not outdated. Since more than a year, there is no visible development in cdrkit. So I asume that they did not add new bugs. http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/linux-dist.html. Where you listed specific bugs, I see they don't affect me (and can't imagine they'd affect most users). Most of what you cite as bugs are just features they haven't implemented yet (and for all I know, they have since you wrote that page). This is obviously FUD: Just because you don't already know that you are affected does not mean that you are not affected. It would be fun to see you in 5 years after your then current OS won't read your DVDs anymore because of the bugs in the filesystem structure. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:46:41 +0200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joerg Schilling) wrote: »Q« [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've just read your outdated page It is not outdated. Since more than a year, there is no visible development in cdrkit. So I asume that they did not add new bugs. Actually it's exactly as Joerg says. If you would open the official site [1] of the project cdrkit, you would see: 2008/03/17 Cdrkit 1.1.7.1 has been released. ...but there is no such release at the place [2] I could find as official repository. [1] http://www.cdrkit.org/ [2] http://debburn.alioth.debian.org/?C=M;O=D I've also made screen shots if it counts as proof: (1) http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4417/cdrkit1ob1.png My edits: two red marks - one to show the link leading to (2) - one to show the claim there is a new version == (2) http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3683/cdrkit2fo1.png My edits: one red mark to show the link leading to (3) == (3) http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3263/cdrkit3di4.png My edits: one red mark to show the newest file in the directory == -- Best regards, Daniel -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
Daniel Iliev schrieb: On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:46:41 +0200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joerg Schilling) wrote: »Q« [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've just read your outdated page It is not outdated. Since more than a year, there is no visible development in cdrkit. So I asume that they did not add new bugs. Actually it's exactly as Joerg says. If you would open the official site [1] of the project cdrkit, you would see: 2008/03/17 Cdrkit 1.1.7.1 has been released. ...but there is no such release at the place [2] I could find as official repository. [1] http://www.cdrkit.org/ [2] http://debburn.alioth.debian.org/?C=M;O=D Just to correct a mistake. At http://cdrkit.org/releases/ is the release you are missing. There is even a newer version not listed at http://www.cdrkit.org/. Funny thing is that the mirror http://cdrkit.org/releases/ has the newer releases than http://debburn.alioth.debian.org/. Regards, Daniel -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:14:24 +0200 Daniel Pielmeier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel Iliev schrieb: On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:46:41 +0200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joerg Schilling) wrote: »Q« [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've just read your outdated page It is not outdated. Since more than a year, there is no visible development in cdrkit. So I asume that they did not add new bugs. Actually it's exactly as Joerg says. If you would open the official site [1] of the project cdrkit, you would see: 2008/03/17 Cdrkit 1.1.7.1 has been released. ...but there is no such release at the place [2] I could find as official repository. [1] http://www.cdrkit.org/ [2] http://debburn.alioth.debian.org/?C=M;O=D Just to correct a mistake. At http://cdrkit.org/releases/ is the release you are missing. There is even a newer version not listed at http://www.cdrkit.org/. Funny thing is that the mirror http://cdrkit.org/releases/ has the newer releases than http://debburn.alioth.debian.org/. Regards, Daniel OK. It is my mistake. I admit it and I apologize. Then it appears that Joerg is spreading FUD about the cdrkit project. -- Best regards, Daniel -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
Daniel Iliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK. It is my mistake. I admit it and I apologize. Then it appears that Joerg is spreading FUD about the cdrkit project. I do not spread FUD. You should carefully check the history to understand that most of the changes are speudo changes (like adding a space and later removing it again). The latest release of cdrkit still has more bugs than the source they did take in september 2006. As they in addition did not add new features, the overall saldo of all activities since September 2006 is still negative. All changes in cdrkit made since May 7th 2007 still sum up to less than I do in a lazy week. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:47:31 +0200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joerg Schilling) wrote: You should carefully check the history to understand that most of the changes are speudo changes (like adding a space and later removing it again). I beg to differ. I don't have any reason to do anything at all. It is you who has to convince me that you are right. I did not ever send you mail asking or telling you anything. It is you who sends unwanted mails to advertise against cdrkit in favour of cdrtools to every thread about optical media in the list. That is called spam. The most annoying thing of all is that when you are asked to explain your problem you act as if it was you who wants to be left alone and the people are those who nag at you. If it is so hard for you to have a normal dialog, then may I suggest you to defend your cause in a different, less offensive way? How about if you remake your site and explain everything there. What happened (chronologically and in detail) and provide evidence. Remake it to be clear with simple sentences and easy for finding the information. Then provide means (as web forum, mailing list etc) for the visitors to post their comments and questions. After all that is ready it would absolutely acceptable to participate in this and every other public list as a normal member and put links to your site in your signature. How about that? -- Best regards, Daniel -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?
Daniel Iliev ha scritto: How about if you remake your site and explain everything there. What happened (chronologically and in detail) and provide evidence. Remake it to be clear with simple sentences and easy for finding the information. Then provide means (as web forum, mailing list etc) for the visitors to post their comments and questions. After all that is ready it would absolutely acceptable to participate in this and every other public list as a normal member and put links to your site in your signature. How about that? I want that too. I back the proposal of Iliev. Joerg, why don't you do that so that you can settle all this in the most informative way possible? It can't harm you, and it would help us understand what to do. If you are reasonable, you should feel by now that there must be some problem on your part on efficiently communicating your position. It seems that, er, while you're very good in coding, communication is not your best playground. Therefore, if you need help on how to do that webpage, we would be more than happy to give humble advice. Thanks, m. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
