Re: Article
On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, at 4:26pm, Jon Hall wrote: So his campaign worked, to a large extent. Unfortunately, his campaign also alienated a lot of (potential) supporters. I have to wonder if he didn't end up with a net loss. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
User education and the security apocalypse (was: Quickbooks)
On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, at 1:28pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm, I know this is probably way beyond the grasp of the average user like Ms. Billings, however, couldn't she choose to print the invoice, select print to file and mail the postscript file herself? I suspect the average user would be unable to do anything with said PostScript file. Hmmm, I don't suppose there's the option to encrypt said invoices *before* mailing it out, huh? Of course, that would pre-suppose that each party created and supplied the invoicing user with a public encryption key. I have found that the average user has a very hard time understanding why their password should not be their birthdate. When presented with warnings in their web browser that a given website's SSL certificate is invalid, they click OK and continue anyway. They simply do not have even the fundamental knowledge required for them to know *why* security is important. This is, ultimately, an education problem. I suspect that, until we have had a sufficient number of computer security disasters (by disaster, I do not mean website defaced, I mean widespread financial hardship and/or personal injury), your average user will regard computer security as something they want to avoid. I once read a sci-fi novell that used an apropos plot device. At one point, the world-wide computer network fails, causing a decade-long global depression. That is the sort of thing I am envisioning. I fully expect it to be an unpleasant time to be alive. Cheery thoughts. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: User education and the security apocalypse (was: Quickbooks)
On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, at 10:22pm, Erik Price wrote: TCPA and Palladium take the burden of security out of the hands of the user... Yah, just like Big Brother takes the burden of free will out of the hands of the people. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Looking for a decent calendar application
On Mon, 29 Jul 2002, at 11:01am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not want to use Evolution/Connector, because I like exmh much better. Not to deflect your intent, but couldn't you just use Evolution and Connector for calendaring, and fetchmail/exmh for email? This has the added bonus of letting you feed information back into Exchange. (I guarantee someone will eventually ask you to update your Free/Busy data.) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
On 26 Jul 2002, at 2:53pm, Kevin D. Clark wrote: However, there used to be a time when user directories used to be placed under /usr. Right. From what I understand, the embryonic Unix systems were single-user machines, with a very few top level directories: /src for source, /bin for binaries, /etc for all that system stuff, /dev for devices, and /tmp for temporary files (did I forget any?). When multi-user functions were added, the /usr directory was created for user files. When additional disks were added, /usr was also used as the mount-point. (I'm not sure which came first.) Because the /usr disk had more space than / disk, all the former to-level directories were re-created and stuff dumped there, leading to a bit of mess. It isn't that bad to have a one or two /usr/bscott directories, but on a large, multi-user system, it gets kind of ugly. Then things changed, and everybody started using other directories, most notably, /home . /sbin, /opt, and /var are other notable additions. I guess, in short, it's a bit of convenience to have users directories all grouped together. But are there any other reasons that I'm overlooking? /usr can be network-mounted and/or read-only with user directories under /home. The LSB says distributors *must* allow /usr to be mounted read-only. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Fighting with IRQs.
On 25 Jul 2002, at 1:30pm, Scott Garman wrote: I've been having a hard time trying to force my sound and network card to use different IRQs. Are they PCI cards? If so, it doesn't work that way. PCI slots each have four interrupt lines assigned to them -- INT A, B, C, and D. Those interrupt lines are connected to a component called an APIC (Advanced Programmable Interrupt Controller), which routes the PCI interrupts to the interrupt pins on the microprocessor. The routing between slots, CPUs, and APICs is entirely dependent on the particular motherboard you happen to have, and the capabilities of the APIC. In theory, none of this should matter, since PCI cards are *supposed* to be able to share interrupts. And, in general, they do so just fine. However, one does encounter non-compliant cards from time to time. Rather more often, one encounters software (drivers, kernel-level resource allocators, etc.) which cannot handle IRQ sharing. Working around such problems can range from difficult to impossible, depending on details. On bootup, my ESCD assigns most of my devices to either IRQ 10 or 11 ... ESCD = Extended System Configuration Data. The ESCD is setup by the BIOS, and includes things like IRQ mapping tables. Problems with the ESCD being incorrect are sometimes encountered, especially on early PCI systems with buggy BIOSes. so my /proc/interrupts looks like: Keep in mind that /proc/interrupts just shows what IRQs the device driver is *trying* to use. If the device driver is using the wrong IRQ, the wrong IRQ will be shown there as well. The lspci command can be useful. I've also tried assigning the IRQs via the BIOS, but that seems to do nothing either - the ESCD still piles almost everything on 10 and 11. The ESCD simply describes the system. The the BIOS, the hardware, and/or the operating system determines which IRQs get routed where. When I disable one or both of those IRQs in the BIOS, the devices won't be assigned an IRQ at all, and won't work. Most APICs are not completely flexible; they can route a particular PCI interrupt line to maybe two or three different CPU interrupt lines. I've also tried swapping cards around on physical PCI slots, which will sometimes change IRQ assignments, but as I add all of my cards (SCSI, sound, network, etc), I still end up getting IRQ pileups. That is likely the way it is going to be. If there is a PCI-to-PCI bridge in your system (and there often will be), all the slots past the bridge (moving away from the CPU) will appear on a single CPU IRQ line. I have seen systems where *all* PCI slots were wired to a *single* IRQ line. I would really like to learn more about how IRQ and IO assignment is done by BIOS and Linux, if anyone could point me to some good documentation. This is black magic. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Fighting with IRQs.
On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, at 2:00pm, Rich C wrote: If I were to disable this setting, I could manually assign all my IRQs based on PCI slots (or ISA slots if I had any.) See me other post on PCI interrupt routing. :-) ISA cards (be they legacy ISA cards or Plug-and-Play ISA cards) have all interrupt lines available to their slot. The card itself determines which of those, if any, it will use. Some cards are hard-wired to use only one; some use jumpers or switches; some are controlled via onboard logic. Before ISA PnP, it was common enough to have ISA cards which were configured using software, but each card had its own interface and program for doing so. ISA PnP simply standardizes the interface to the onboard logic which controls resource selection. If you have the Reset Configuration Data setting set to ENABLED, the BIOS will use the ESCD program to reallocate your resources on every boot. Not exactly. The cards themselves do not determine their configuration, and they need no non-volatile storage. The host computer (either the BIOS, or the OS, or some other program) gives them their configuration. Now, most BIOSes will remember PCI and PnP resource allocations between boots. The Reset Configuration Data option causes the BIOS to reconfigure all devices and rebuild the ESCD. It is a one-time option -- after the reset is performed, the Reset Configuration Data setting will switch back to Disabled. Then most BIOSes have a section that allows you to set the assignment of each IRQ, and sometimes the DMA channels too. The usual settings are AUTO(ESCD) and MANUAL. When resources are controlled manually, I think you need to tell the BIOS which bus (ISA OR PCI) the resource belongs to. Basically, if you have any non-PnP cards in your system, the BIOS (and maybe even the OS) has no way of knowing what resources they are using. The options you are talking about allow you to reserve resources for use by non-PnP cards. Using these options will cause the BIOS to *never* allocate those resources for *anything*. In theory, the OS has an advantage here, because the device driver for a non-PnP card might be able to tell the OS what resources the device is using. Or not. ISA PnP is one of those things that, when it works, it works great, and when it doesn't work, you're fscked good. :-/ -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Fighting with IRQs.
On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, at 3:51pm, Rich C wrote: Not exactly. The cards themselves do not determine their configuration, Read my post again. I did not say that the card did this. Er, I just read your post again, and you did say that. However, you asked us not to quote you, so I won't. :-) I understood you were not clear on the matter, and I was trying to clarify things. and they need no non-volatile storage. The host computer (either the BIOS, or the OS, or some other program) gives them their configuration. Some cards DO keep their own configurations, although it may be only ISA cards which do this. Sorry, no. The context of your remark was the Reset Configuration Data setting. That setting applies to the ESCD the BIOS maintains, which is not kept on the cards. Both PCI and ISA PnP cards get the configuration from the host computer; they have no say in it themselves. (Well, that isn't strictly true; the cards can report their limitations, e.g., that only certain IRQs, DMAs, or memory ranges will work. But the host (specifically, the PnP enumerator) tells them what to actually use.) It is certianly possible for a card to keep *other* settings in NVRAM (e.g., the volume on an internal modem), but that is not what you were talking about. Frequently, without a PnP BIOS to configure them, you needed a special configuration program (certain Adaptec ISA SCSI adapters do this) to set the IRQ and DMA (if applicable.) As I said in *my* post: me Before ISA PnP, it was common enough to have ISA cards which were me configured using software, but each card had its own me interface and program for doing so. ... and ... me Basically, if you have any non-PnP cards in your system, the BIOS (and me maybe even the OS) has no way of knowing what resources they are using. So, again, that has nothing to do with the Reset Configuration Data setting. :-) Not true in all cases. Some BIOSes will keep the setting on Enabled ... Interesting. I have never seen that before. ... and you will see the ESCD update success... message on every boot. That is not necessarilly unrelated. Sometimes, the ESCD update message will always appear, even when the Reset Configuration Data is set to Disabled. I do not know if that is because the BIOS designers just felt it better to regenerate it every time, or because some piece of hardware is causing the BIOS to think it needs to, or because the BIOS is buggy, or what. :-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, at 5:54pm, Derek D. Martin wrote: When you say this, it makes me think that you don't get GNU. GNU's *not* Unix. But it was always intended to work like Unix, by and large. I have written and rewritten a response to this several times now. In all cases, the inevitable conclusion is an argument over semantics, and/or the fact that USAH is a holy cow for you. I don't want to go there. :-) That doesn't mean that [Linux distributors] haven't introduced their own brain damage ... Oh, gawd, have they ever. I was never trying to say they were perfect. Indeed, in many cases, they have taken one or two steps back for every step they have taken forward. :-( A good example is the whole /var/spool/mail thing. Historical Unix made that directory world writable with the sticky bit set. The major reason for that was locking -- programs created lock files in that directory to reserve write access to a mailbox. Of course, it is also a rather big security exposure, especially on a large, multi-user system. It doesn't have to be, and it shouldn't be. I am sorry, but I am confused on your context here. In that sentence, does it evaluate to the mail directory or a world-writable directory? This is a case where the Linux developers did NOT erase a brain damage, in the name of making it work like traditional Unixen. Alas, the let's fix it now while we have the chance mentality does not always win. Sometimes for good reason, sometimes for not-so-good reasons. Your example, I think, is one of the not-so-good instances. I have noticed that Alan Cox and some of the other kernel hackers occasionally retreat into the Unix has always done things this way defense when a more objective approach might be called for. The whole devfs debate comes to mind Proper implementation and enforcement of policy, and attention to permissions on created files will mitigate or eliminate most of them. Did you get that from Microsoft's playbook? :-) Yah, we know this is a really bad idea, but if you do this, this, and this, you can smooth most of the wrinkles out... No, thank you. :) Red Hat went to the trouble of making sure all the mail programs on their system use kernel-level locking (flock/fcntl), eliminating the need for that long-standing braindamage. And I say: Good! Sort of... Traditionally ... There's that word again. Traditionally. Here is a story I like to tell: A daughter is watching her mother make dinner -- a roast. She notices that her mother cuts the end off the roast and throws it away before putting the roast in the oven. She asks her mother why. Her mother says, Well... um... I think it makes the juices come out and adds flavor.. but I'm not really sure. My friend Mary taught me to cook, and that's the way she always did it. So the daughter calls her mom's friend, and asks her why she cuts the end of the roast off. Mary says, You know, I never really thought about it. That's just the way my mom taught me to do it. So, now being really curious, the daughter asks for Mary's mother's phone number, and calls her. She asks, Mrs. Smith, why do you cut the end of the roast off before putting it in the oven? And Mrs. Smith says, So it will fit in the pan. That fact that Unix has traditionally had poor file locking support is a reason to fix things -- not to continue using poor locking! So if you need to interoperate via NFS with multiple platforms ... you're pretty much guaranteed that your locking mechanism will break somewhere, no matter what you pick... Right. What I don't understand is why that is used as an argument in favor of using files as lock semaphores for mail. As you've already said, NFS locking is notoriously wonky in a heterogeneous environment, so what Red Hat does doesn't really make things any worse than they already were. And it does improve things markedly within Red Hat's domain. I think they did the Right Thing. But again, this is turning into an argument over design decisions. Sometimes there is more than one way to do things, and the right one is more a matter of taste than anything else. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, at 10:25am, Derek D. Martin wrote: On a few occasions, I've allowed frustration to get the better of me, and said some things I'd probably prefer I didn't... Well, Derek, if it makes you feel any better, I think that happens to everyone now and again (certainly, to me!), and I commend you for admitting it. Beyond QA, I also think they do some really bizzare things with the way they organize and configure certain things (like putting the web server's document root in /home) that would make a lot of experienced Unix system administrators cringe. Ah yes. That. This is another of those Linux is different cases that I was talking about. Outside of Linux, there is always a base system that comes from one vendor or organization. Even the BSDs have a base system plus the ports section. Third-party software (like Apache) is generally installed under /usr/local (or /opt). When you have /usr/local/apache/bin, lib, conf, log and so on, it only makes sense to put the Apache web root there, too. But with Linux, it is *all* third-party software. If Red Hat (or anyone else) did what all the other Unixes do, there would be hundreds -- if not thousands -- of package directories under /usr/local, and *nothing* in /usr at all. That is obviously the Wrong Thing. So, they put Apache binaries in /usr/bin, and modules in /usr/lib/apache, and configuration in /etc/httpd/. Which, to me, makes sense. With Linux, everything that was formerly third-party gets moved up, so to speak. But that leaves us with no place to put htdocs. Putting it under /usr doesn't really make sense -- /usr is where static files live, not user data. /usr/local/htdocs might make sense, but Red Hat wanted to leave /usr/local for things not packaged by Red Hat. Ditto /opt. They ended up choosing /home because it was the web server's home, so to speak. I think /var/svc/httpd or something would have been a better choice, but as you say, sometimes it is just a matter of taste. I realize you yourself must know this, but I wanted to explicitly detail it anyway. For one, others might not realize it. But more-so because I wanted to highlight *why* Linux doesn't behave the way traditional Unix does. Anyone used to any other Unix will find Linux a bit weird in this respect. ... [the LSB] at the very least documents them. One of my biggest beefs with Red Hat is the lack of general system documentation. Likewise, one of the things that impresses me the most about Debian is the Policy manual. Per-program manual pages and user guides are certainly needed, but an overall system has to have a plan, too, and I wish Red Hat documented their plan better. (I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt by assuming they have a plan. ;-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: vanished Gnome taskbar
On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, at 10:01am, Michael O'Donnell wrote: Is Gnome known to be prone to random failures of this sort, or is this more likely pilot error? I have seen the GNOME panel crash plenty of times, but it normally restarts automatically, and all the applets reappear with little or no lost state. When I ogged in this A.M. my taskbar and pager in my panel indow had disappeared. If I minimize a window it anishes and I can not open it again by clicking on hat used to be its minimized icon. Quick fix: From a shell prompt, issue the command panel (without the quotes, of course). Problem analysis: What distro and release is he using? What window manager? Check the setting for the GNOME session state, which are controlled by various capplets under GNOME Menu - Programs - Settings - Session. The panel program should be listed, with Style of Respawn. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, at 10:26am, Mark Komarinski wrote: Distros have their problems, no doubt about it. It's fortunate we can have this discussion at all as compared to Windows users. It's also fortunate that we can find our own ways around some of the problems that also happen to be distro-agnostic (SI instead of kickstart for example). Well said! -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, at 10:55am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't disagree with any of that, I was merely stating that it's an amusing read. You forget there is a real person on the other end of it. I have been the object of that kind of abuse too many times to find it amusing. :-( Which ones are you referring to? In the RH does not do things the way Derek expects them to be category, I'd re-word that as RH does not do things the way most sysadmins expect things to be. I would answer that question, but I suspect the discussion would quickly turn into a pointless argument over design decisions. Do we really need to re-invent the whole BSD-vs-SysV war with new players? ... espoused by Evi Nemeth, et al, in the UNIX/Linux System Administrator's Handbook series. RH violates these basic practices with their configurations many times. Heh. My take on the same thing was that USAH didn't get many things about Linux and GNU. :-) The biggest being: GNU's Not Unix. There are times where Red Hat (and others) have decided not to perpetuate certain braindamages from traditional Unix. I, for one, am thankful for that in many cases. Yes, it sometimes causes older software to break. The answer is to fix the software. A good example is the whole /var/spool/mail thing. Historical Unix made that directory world writable with the sticky bit set. The major reason for that was locking -- programs created lock files in that directory to reserve write access to a mailbox. Of course, it is also a rather big security exposure, especially on a large, multi-user system. Red Hat went to the trouble of making sure all the mail programs on their system use kernel-level locking (flock/fcntl), eliminating the need for that long-standing braindamage. And I say: Good! Just because Unix has been stupid about this for twenty years does not mean we should continue to be stupid about it. World writable directories are bad idea, and many (myself included) consider Unix's dependence on them a design flaw. Sorry if that rains on your parade, but as the Perl folks say, TIMTOWTDI. Nobody is forcing you to use Red Hat. I am sure there is a Linux distribution out there designed to emulate crufty old Unix as closely as possible. :-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, at 10:59am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The iterations of Linux distros have some major bugs in them. It's more accurate, and much more general :) Might as well be completely honest: The various iterations of most software have some major bugs in them. Or, to use my preferred quote: If builders designed buildings the way programmers write programs, the first wood pecker to come along would have destroyed civilization. -- Gerald Weinberg However, as you point out, at least with Linux, not only can be do something about it, but we can expect a fix within a reasonable amount of time ... I say that a lot. It is not that Linux is perfect. Heck, even typing that makes me laugh! No, the advantage Linux has is that one can find and fix the problems a heck of a lot quicker and easier on Linux than on a commercial OS. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Playing DVDs on Linux
Hello all, We now interrupt our regularly scheduled flaming to bring you the following on-topic post. ;-) I have, until now, been avoiding having anything to do with DVDs, due to the issues surrounding their use. (I was afraid I would be arrested for turning it on or something.) However, having watched it become the fastest growing consumer electronics product in history, and having watched DVDs take over the home movie industry, I have conceded defeat in this matter. So, I now have a DVD reader in my computer. It does a fine job reading audio and data CDs, but I had that before. I would like to be able to play movies, too. What, if anything, do people use to watch DVDs on Linux? Open Source software? Commercial software? What experiences -- good or bad -- have people had? Opinions? Gotchas? I basically know nothing about DVD technology, and I am hoping for some intelligent feedback from the many fine minds on this list before I hit Google. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: .deb HOWTO
On 23 Jul 2002, at 12:14pm, Cole Tuininga wrote: Hi folks - I was curious if anybody knew of any resources on how to create .deb files for a project? I took a look through google and debian.org but didn't find much. Did you find http://www.debian.org/doc/devel-manuals? Look for maintainer guides -- in Debian-land, a packager is called a maintainer. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, at 2:08pm, Michael O'Donnell wrote: I'm looking for an automated software installation mechanism - I want to be able to deliver software to my customers in such a way that they can install it on multiple machines as painlessly as possible. Others have provided many good suggestions. There is also Kickstart, if you are using Red Hat. See manual pages mkkickstart(8) and/or ksconfig(8). -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: automated installation
On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, at 2:34pm, Mark Komarinski wrote: Every time I've used kickstart, there has been some serious bug in it. From messing up the partition table to mismatches between crypt/shadow/plaintext root password settings. The early iterations of Red Hat's anaconda install did have some serious bugs in them. For that matter, some of the later iterations have, too. However, said bugs have typically been fixed with the release of updated install images from Red Hat. It usually takes Red Hat two or three tries to get something right, but they usually do get it right, eventually. ;-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Forbe's profiles Linux
On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, at 9:59am, Mark Komarinski wrote: IIRC, Forbes is starting to carry /. stories. Who publishes Forbes? I want to sell their stock short... ;-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
RealNetworks going Open Source?
Interesting. RealNetworks announces that they will be releasing the source to certain software components, under what is supposed to be an Open Source(ish) license. http://netscape.com.com/2100-1104-945418.html http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/79476_real22.shtml http://www.helixcommunity.org [official site] It is unclear yet what components will be opened, but rumor appears to indicate it would be transport and playback frameworks, but not the actual A/V codes. Still, that might solve my immediate problem of being unable to view streaming media, i.e., with a transport engine that collects the real-time packets and feeds them to a closed player. One thing that occurs to me: One of the major uses for streaming media today is not live productions, but rather, a misguided and ill-conceived form of copy-protection and content-control. If Real goes open, and that creates a perception that Real is easier to copy, will the media cartel drop Real in favor of Microsoft? That is, could this make the Open Source streaming media situation worse? -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: RealNetworks going Open Source?
On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, at 2:04pm, Rich C wrote: It appears the goal is to allow proprietary streaming media providers to supply plug-ins to RealNetworks' framework, in order to make a more versatile client. They don't appear to be opening up RealNetworks' streaming protocol. I haven't been able to derive much in the way of goals (or, indeed, anything more than vaporware) from any of this. I've seen the usual conflicting rumors. If you know of any more information, pointers are welcome. Bruce Perens, or someone who has hijacked or impersonated his account, has made the following statements on Slashdot: BP Well, this release does not include any DRM, so it is likely that in the BP future (or even now) thare will be some DRM-protected RealMedia that the BP mostly-Open-Source player won't play. DRM is, of course, Digital Rights Management, AKA content control, AKA Thought Police. However, DRM can mean many things, depending on context. RealNetworks pushes real-time streams as a sort of DRM, since it makes it harder (note well: by no means impossible) to capture the content for later viewing. In regards to the reverse-engineering of Windows Media, Mr. Perens also had this to say: BP The answer from Real's president was rather confusing. It sounds as if BP they have reverse engineered Microsoft's transport and not their codec. BP I'll follow up. That is uninteresting from a Windows Media playback on Linux standpoint, but it does imply that Real is opening up their transports. Maybe. Of course, the way they've done it has certainly opened the door for Someone Else to come along and reverse engineer their protocol. Reverse engineering network protocols has, historically, been rather easy to do. I was, in fact, somewhat surprised to not find an instance of a ripper for RealNetworks's RDT protocol already in existence. The A/V CODECs have historically been harder, and more often protected by patents, which is where the real problem (no pun intended) comes in. While capturing the RealMedia stream to disk would allow me to feed it back to RealPlayer at my leisure, that really does not make it an open technology. It just makes using the closed, proprietary RealPlayer more easier for me. As an amateur content provider, I can say that my chief motivations in using streaming content ... As an amateur content provider, RealNetworks has zero interest in you. You are not paying them tens of thousands of dollars in license fees for their production and distribution tools. As an amateur content provider, I would assume things like MPEG and Ogg would be of the most interest to you. Encoders are low-cost or free, and very little needs to be done to enable streaming functionality. At the same time, nothing special needs to be done for those (like me) who cannot sustain the stream: We just download it like normal, and play it back in deferred time. The big boys who use RealMedia and Windows Media are generally interested in content control. Why else would they pay all this money for things like RealServer and Windows 2000, when MPEG and Ogg are available for so much less? While many content providers have copy protection and content control in mind, these objectives are easily met ... Not according to the media cartel (RIAA, MPAA, etc.) or the DMCA or the recent Internet radio thing. All say that even a horribly imperfect digital stream is a performance. If I WERE concerned with such matters, I certainly wouldn't go running to Microsoft, since RealNetworks' player can now decode that format as well. Since when can RealPlayer decode Windows Media? The version I have on Linux (8.0.3.421) certainly cannot. More information, please. Any client plug-in that can capture RealNetworks' stream to a file would likely be capable of doing the same with the Media Player stream as well. That's not the point. The point is that the media cartel regards Open Source as a lethal toxin. They might start favoring Windows Media if Real even appears to be tainted by the Open Source poison. Reality has nothing to do with this argument. Remember, the media cartel argued that VHS would be the death of their industry, too. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Quantum Snap Server - Opinions?
On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, at 12:40pm, Ken Ambrose wrote: Ken's (security) rule-of-thumb: if you don't have physical security, you don't have security. Period. Looked at a different way, I -like- being able to reset passwords easily through a button ... Yeah, what he said. :) Even if said button was not present, I could always apply this tried-and-true security exploit: I could rip open the case, and install the hard drive as a secondary disk in my own system. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Quantum Snap Server - Opinions?
On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, at 2:29pm, Hewitt Tech wrote: Has anyone used any of the Quantum Snap Server products to add NAS storage for small office use? The only caveats I hear of regularly are performance, management, and backup. Performance is pretty poor, especially for any kind of I/O intensive application (but you would expect that). Management is poor, compared to how integrated a homogeneous network usually is (but again, that is to be expected, and a non-issue on a small, ad-hoc network anyway). Backup is a combination of performance and simple existence: Don't forget to back up the Snap box, and remember that network backup performance (compared to a local drive) is going to be pretty poor. I remember them using Linux as the hidden OS. As others had said, I think it was a BSD. I also seem to remember that, after Maxtor bought Quantum, Maxtor decided to use an embedded version of a Redmond-based OS. But in an embedded situation, the OS really does not matter. It could be running Amiga Workbench, so long as it gets the job done. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: realplayer (was: Re: RealNetworks going Open Source?)
On 22 Jul 2002, at 4:05pm, Kevin D. Clark wrote: Since when can RealPlayer decode Windows Media? The version I have on Linux (8.0.3.421) certainly cannot. More information, please. Where does one obtain this version, anyways? http://proforma.real.com/real/player/unix/unix.html Don't ask me how I found that URL. I tried to reproduce the navigation path on their website, and could not. I seem to remember their Service and Support section being a backdoor into much good stuff not readily available through more obvious channels, but even that appears to be stoppered up right now. Then again, I didn't look very hard, having that URL on-hand this time around. This must be some new software product marketing strategy: Make sure nobody can download your product, and... uh... er Incidently, I was trying to get this 5.x version running on a RedHat 7.3 box the other day and I didn't have a lot of luck. I don't think you would. AFAIK, Red Hat only supports the previous major release for binary compatibility. You would have to install the old RHL 5.x libraries yourself. Possible, but not fun. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
RE: realplayer (was: Re: RealNetworks going Open Source?)
On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, at 4:42pm, Alan R. wrote: The CEO was really high on the helix server running on Linux. Just FYI, RealServer, their current proprietary product, already runs on Linux, so making the Open Source version run on Linux should be a no-brainer. :-) He also speculated that a Linux version of the Helix player would be available within 90 days. It's all vaporware until I can see the code. -- Me :-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Quantum Snap Server - Opinions?
On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, at 4:07pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a second note I forgot about, it also has a built in FTP and web server, as well as the ability to run Java servlets. Definatly a nice little box.. Ahm, okay, so how is this different than a Cobalt then? One is made by Sun, the other's made by Quantum. ;-) Cobalt is now owned by Sun. And, AFAIK, they have not yet shoehorned either Solaris or a SPARC into a Cobalt box yet. Amazing. :-) Also, keep in mind, [Cobalt boxes are] meant as a web appliance, not necessarilly an NFS/CIFS server. Seeing how they are both made from the same commodity i386 parts (and same basic software), I don't know that means much. Cobalt's original product line (the Qube) was a LAN server appliance (NFS/CIFS/etc). As I understand it, the biggest change from LAN appliance to web appliance was the marketing literature. ;-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: RealNetworks going Open Source?
On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, at 3:50pm, Rich C wrote: Of course this implies only that RealNetworks can supply streaming data in Microsoft's format. If they can do this, you have to assume they can decode it as well. Well, yes and no. The streaming transport is typically separate from the actual media encoder/decoder. So, as long as you have the Windows Media file on the server, you could (in theory) stream it to a Windows Media Player, without knowing how to decode the actual media content. Kinda like how you can serve up Microsoft Excel files via Apache, even though you cannot get MS Excel for Linux [1]. They ARE very interesting to me. The MPEG moreso than Ogg Vorbis right now, as my target audiences are not that computer savvy. Almost no one in my audience has an Ogg Vorbis-capable player, or even knows what it is, but they have all heard of RealNetworks. Right. I expect Ogg to succeed much the way Linux did: Slowly, and by stealth. Open Source never dies, and with implementation cost being near zero, it tends to build up a large installed base just by existing. That does mean home users tend to be late adopters, of course. It would be ironic if RealNetworks conquers these markets first, and the Media Cartel runs to Microsoft, who can't distribute their content to any of these devices. :-) It would be ironic indeed. Alas, as others have observed, fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony. :-/ -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
RE: realplayer (was: Re: RealNetworks going Open Source?)
On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, at 5:37pm, Alan R. wrote: About the player being Vapoware... I agree. But they did just release a Mac OS X version of RealOne Player on July 17 so things look good. Oh, I certainly won't complain if it happens. :) On a related note, I just found an alpha release for their RealOne Player for Linux. Follow the link from my previous message, choose tar.gz as the download format, and, on the next page, look for the RealOne button at the bottom of the regular download page. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
[Humor] Slashdot and the Real/Helix source release
In regards to the webcast that RealNetworks was hosting about their Open Source(ish) Helix framework, the following was seen on Slashdot: During the QA session of the webcast: Perens: I've been reading questions off of slashdot, most of which have been positive. Glaser: Are you sure you have the right URL? That just cracked me up. :-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Is Microsoft the next Enron/Worldcom?
http://www.portlandtribune.com/archview.cgi?id=9726 Wage expense at Microsoft exceeded $22 billion for the two-year period ending June 2001, and not a dime of this amount is charged against its earnings. Showing this expense as a charge to earnings would indeed make Microsoft, like Enron, an unprofitable company. (An older, but more detailed, analysis can be found at http://www.billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.html.) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: MS Makes Donation to Peru
On Thu, 18 Jul 2002, at 8:14am, Richard Soule wrote: Money: 50 cents cash Consulting Services: 60 minutes on the phone with a MSCE * Software: $549,999.50 worth of MS DOS 3.0. Owning the IT infrastructure of a small country forever: Priceless. Some things, money can't buy. Fortunately for Microsoft, politicians aren't one of those things. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: firewall eth0 weirdness
On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, at 7:56pm, Ken Ambrose wrote: I see it frequently enough that I've taken to putting pump into cron. Try switching from pump to ISC dhcpcd. A lot of people have reported trying one, having troubles, switching to the other, and that solves their problem. It appears each one gets along with various DHCP servers better than the other one. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: firewall eth0 weirdness
On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, at 10:06am, Michael O'Donnell wrote: - I am using pump and this isn't the first time I've heard its reliability questioned, so I'll give dhcpcd a try. It isn't so much that ISC dhcpcd is better or worse then pump; it is just that it happens to get along with some DHCP servers better. Likewise, there are DHCP servers that ISC dhcpcd does not like, that pump works well with. So when one doesn't work, you try the other. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Abusing CC:
On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, at 11:26am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Btw, ahm, with all this discussion about headers like M-F-T, why aren't we using the already standard List-* headers? I would solve a lot of the complaints here! Because the configuration of the current mailing list is limited by the policies of the environment which hosts it, and we have to live with said limitations. DEC^WCompaq^WHewlett-Packard has been very generous over the years in hosting this list for us, for free, with outstanding reliability. It largely comes down to beggars can't be choosers. We are working on improving things, as you should know, Paul! :) Why does this topic get revisited every month, by people who should know the answer by now? :) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Abusing CC:
On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, at 12:10pm, Tom Buskey wrote: Ummm, yahoo does lists for free provides a web archive, etc. Granted, there'd be less control ads inserted. Well, maybe there'd be more control. I, personally, would consider that a step in the wrong direction. :) When I say we are working on improving things, I mean we have been gradually moving things over to other servers that other people have generously let us have room on. Mailing lists are included in that. We even have a long-standing and perpetually-far-off plan to get our own server. But I didn't want to get into details because nothing is finalized yet. People interested in the details can subscribe to the gnhlug-org list and learn more then you ever wanted to know. :) Can this thread *please* die now? :) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Abusing CC:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, at 1:56pm, Bob Bell wrote: IMHO, Mail-Followup-To is a cleaner solution. Oh, I agree that a header specifically for this reason is a much better solution. However, until such time as Mail-Followup-To becomes an effective solution, I plan on including a Reply-To header as well. Hmmm... wait a second... doesn't... [quick web search]... yah. http://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html Mail-Followup-To is designed to be used in conjunction with Mail-Reply-To. As DJB says, RFC 822 did not recognize reply-to-author and follow-up as separate features. These two new headers do. Thus, one should include all three. Reply-To is set to the list address, Mail-Followup-To is set to the list address, and Mail-Reply-To is set to the author address. Legacy software which does not recognize the newer headers sends to the list by default, as is normal; newer software sees the Mail-Reply-To header and knows that it overrides Reply-To. Personally, I would have called the headers Reply-To-All and Reply-To-Author, just to make that distinction completely bloody obvious, but since I didn't write the spec, I don't have a say. :) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Abusing CC:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, at 9:46pm, Rich Payne wrote: The other side of it was that those of who didn't agree with the change reserved the right to complain about it for the rest of eternity. I've said this before, but repetition is the very soul of the 'net. -- from alt.config -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Abusing CC:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, at 4:32pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone explain exactly what M-F-T is *supposed* to do. *sigh* Did this forum become write-only when I wasn't looking? :) http://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html In a public forum like this one, there are at least two types of reply one might want to make. One is a broadcast reply to the group (often called a followup). The other is a private reply to the author. Unfortunately, the only available standard header is Reply-To, so the distinction cannot be made. Hence, the addition of two new headers: Mail-Followup-To and Mail-Reply-To. M-F-T designates the address to use when making a broadcast reply to the group. M-R-T designates the address to use when making a private reply to the author. Additionally, the M-R-T header overrides the standard Reply-To header. The idea is that the list address will be given for Mail-Followup-To and Reply-To, and the author's personal address be given for Mail-Reply-To. For example: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mail-Followup-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mail-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Legacy software which does not support M-F-T or M-R-T will see the Reply-To header, and reply to the group (which is the nominal point of a discussion forum in the first place). New software will see the newer headers, and offer Reply to group and Reply to author functions, and also know to ignore the Reply-To header. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Abusing CC:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, at 2:26pm, Michael O'Donnell wrote: That also means that if that person CC's me directly when they post that message, I will get a second copy. Yah. I call that List Header Cancer, because the Cc header in a thread grows larger and larger as everyone who has ever participated in the thread gets added to the Cc list by people who blindly hit Reply All for every message they send. What's *really* fun is when someone who has no interest in the thread (anymore), and is not (or no longer) on the mailing list is still in the Cc header. Essentially, they are forced to receive all of the mail in that thread until it ends. For a list like LKML, where threads can go on for months and total hundreds of messages, that verges on abuse from the Reply All crowd. mwl's Reply-To suggestion is a good one. In fact, I don't know why I didn't think of that myself. (A few keystrokes later, and Pine knows that mail to GNHLUG gets a Reply-To header.) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Linux on IBM Laptops / Survey Questions
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, at 3:20pm, Greg Kettmann wrote: Any thoughts on sites that might host this for a month or so? What, IBM doesn't have a web server you can use? ;-) (J/K) We assume (dangerous word) that Linux is used far more on Thinkpads than our current shipping numbers (very, very low) would imply, but we're trying to document that. I think your thoughts are likely on-target. Consider the following: - Many Linux users like to buy pre-owned equipment, and install Linux in an after market configuration. - Many Linux users are both computer-savvy and picky, and thus want to do their own OS installs, regardless of Windows or Linux. - In a corporate setting where Linux is being used, the corporate IT guys will likely be doing their own OS installs. - Many Linux laptops will end up in a dual-boot configuration. All of those contribute to the fact that Linux pre-loads currently do not show up on the corporate radar to any great extent, but there is still a strong demand for Linux-compatible hardware. Indeed, as long as you publish specifications and make sure your hardware is open, the Linux community will generally do your support and marketing for you. All you have to do is let us help you. BTW, this is NOT an IBM sponsored nor supported activity. Simply us doing what we think is right. For which I, and doubtless many others, thank you. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Abusing CC:
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, at 11:21pm, Bob Bell wrote: If you prefer to not get any 'private' replies, you could always set your reply-to to the list address... The problem here is that attempts at private replies will grab the list address [0]. Any message sent to the list address is not a private reply. I suspect you really mean that people who blindly hit Reply will send to the wrong address. You're right, they will. But that's not the fault of the mail headers, it's pilot error. I've said this before and I'll say it again: Check your headers before sending, or you will do the Wrong Thing sooner or later. Personally, I generally prefer not to receive private replies from a public forum, and I definitely hate List Header Cancer. Setting Reply-To suits my purposes perfectly. That is how I want you to reply to my messages in this forum. The proper solution, IMHO, is to set the Mail-Followup-To header [1]. Two problems with that: 1. Very few MUAs currently implement Mail-Followup-To, which makes it an ineffective solution in real life. 2. As noted above, the problem is really with people who blindly invoke the same function in their mailer for all kinds of replies, regardless of what they really want to do. So, people who blindly hit Reply All will still do so, and people who get into the habit of blindly hitting Group Reply will end up sending private replies to a group. There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems. -- Ed Crowley [0] http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html http://www.metasystema.org/essays/reply-to-useful.mhtml This debate has been rehashed so many times it is starting to bore even me. I long ago reached the conclusion that there is no consensus on the issue, and thus the only solution that works everywhere is to check your headers before you invoke Send. See above. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Enlightenment and key bindings
On Tue, 9 Jul 2002, at 9:56am, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: I upgraded one of my RH 6.2 home systems to RH 72+up2dateness, and Enlightenment is doing something funky with a couple of my key bindings. I found that funky appeared to be a design goal for Enlightenment, which is why I switched to Sawfish. ;-) My $HOME/.enlightenment/keybindings.cfg file labels specific actions (goto desktops) for Alt-F1 and Alt-F2, but in actuality E does a 'run programme' for Alt-F2 and a pop-up menu for Alt-F1. Alt-[F3-F12] still switch as intended; it's just these two key combos (that I've noticed). Well, I would try an rpm -ql on all Enlightenment-related packages, and look for likely candidates. The RHL 7.3 desktop PC I'm working on right now appears to not have Enlightenment (and I thought I did a full install), but an RHL 6.2 system I have access to would suggest the /usr/share/enlightenment/config/ directory as a place to start looking. Also, make sure it is really E that is grabbing those keys. I know, for example, the GNOME Panel can have hotkeys bound to it. Right-click any panel, select the Panel submenu, and choose Global Preferences. In the resulting dialog box, select the Miscellaneous tab, and look for Key Bindings at the bottom. I've long since changed those keys, but it seems to me that might have had the very key bindings you are trying to use. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Dinner
On Tue, 9 Jul 2002, at 7:19pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, now to throw out the question of where we are going to meet to eat before the meeting. Which is, of course, the really important question. ;-) Is everyone open to meeting again at the buffet restaurant on Amherst St again? Or, is there another place that people would like to meet at at around 6pm for dinner? I thought it was pretty good, for a buffet restaurant, so I'm all for it. On the other hand, if someone else who knows the area has a suggestion, I'm open to that, too. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Dinner
On Tue, 9 Jul 2002, at 3:46pm, Ed Lawson wrote: Is everyone open to meeting again at the buffet restaurant on Amherst St again? What is name of restaurant? The name of the restaurant is either Grand Buffet or American Buffet, depending on which sign you read or which person you ask. Is Amerst St also Exit 6? I believe it is exit 7. I know it is on NH-101A. Get off US-3 and head west. You will pass a jug-handle turn almost immediately. You want to take the *next* jug-handle turn (after the first one), to make a U-turn. The restaurant is on your right (south) almost immediately after that U-turn. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Dinner
On Tue, 9 Jul 2002, at 4:26pm, Matthew J. Brodeur wrote: While I'm at a loss for better suggestions, I would like to point everyone to a recent article about the Grand Buffet: http://www.1590.com/Stories/0,1413,222%257E23677%257E685791,00.html Is there independent verification of that somewhere? I've never heard of www.1590.com before, and have no idea how trustworthy an information source it is. I do know that anyone can put up a website, and there are a huge number of websites that specialize in propaganda (Slashdot's a great example). I am not saying that www.1590.com is one of those, but I am not willing to trust a random website without a basis for doing so. I was unable to find any further information on the story anywhere in some brief searching on the Internet, despite the article's claims of International attention, which makes me suspect something phony is going on here. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Dinner
On 9 Jul 2002, at 5:24pm, Kevin D. Clark wrote: Is there independent verification of that somewhere? I am 99% certain I heard this story on NHPR. I definitely heard it on the radio one morning. I also believe that I heard it on TV too. Yah, and I heard Elvis is alive, and working the night shift at the Hudson 7-11. ;-) By independent verification, I meant: Has the story been investigated and corroborated as fact? Not simply one news outlet after another reporting what someone else is reporting. :-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: dinner
On Tue, 9 Jul 2002, at 8:11pm, Michael O'Donnell wrote: BTW, verification (which is involved with actually identifying the truth of some matter - check the etymology) is almost entirely unrelated to whether some news outlet has decided to repeat some story. *cough* That was kind of my point. :-) Why don't we all just eat at the place in question? What?!? Next you'll be suggesting that we actually talk about Linux-related stuff or something... ;-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: virus information
On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, at 1:40pm, Michael O'Donnell wrote: I don't know why Derek mentioned my email address in the body of his message, or why his message was (apparently) distributed via the GNHLUG list. I do happen to be an ATT customer but neither the IP address nor the virus-laden transmissions in question are mine. I'm guessing he simply sent the message to every address in his address book, and did not intend to send it to the mailing list. At least he didn't need a squeegee this time. ;-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Corporate IT policy (was: Open SSH for Red Hat 6.2)
On 7 Jul 2002, at 11:35pm, Paul Iadonisi wrote: On the machine sitting on my desk to do my daily work, I *do* have control over it, no matter what it is running. I see no problem with a policy that I can support myself, so I'll use Linux. I assume from context that you would have no beef if you were forced to use Linux, but would object to being forced to use MS-Windows. So, I assume that, in the above, you really meant what I want to, as opposed to Linux. Well, that might work in a small shop, where you are the sole IT guy who reports directly to the company owner. But it breaks down in a large shop, where you are expected to be part of a team. Someone else already wrote something on this subject, better than I could: Also, I find it interesting that an individuals personal needs seem to always over-ride the greater good of the company. Does no one ever think about what's more important in the long run anymore? Do people just not care? -- Paul Lussier If it's not already established that ... some of us don't expect to ever have to use Windows on our own desktops, then it's not the place for me. This, I think, is a key point here. You are free to choose the manner of your employment. If you are asked to do something you dislike, be it run Windows or flip burgers, you can either (1) suck it up and do it anyway, or (2) object, and if your objection is overruled, resign. (Note that the first choice does not preclude further lobbying efforts on your part. But you do not get to break the rules while lobbying for them to be changed.) I don't believe leaving a company for these reasons is, as some would say, immature. Heh. I would say they are the only reasons for leaving a company. You can make good money managing a McDonald's. Doing something you like is far more valuable. :-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Corporate IT policy (was: Open SSH for Red Hat 6.2)
On Mon, 8 Jul 2002, at 12:46am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In other words, if I'm not requesting any assistance from corp IT .. Paul, I would expect you, of all people, not to take that stance. You and I both know that simply connecting a system to a network involves it in the whole support tangle. From there, you can cause problems, and/or you will complain when things don't work. I refuse to believe that you would honestly allow anyone to just walk in and plug their own equipment, running God-only-knows-what, into a network you are responsible for. You're a better admin then that. Now, as I understand it, in your current situation, corporate IT effectively trusts you and your group to do things right for you and your group, irregardless of what OS you run. That distinction is critical, for what I hope are obvious reasons. Totally different scenario. I don't think so. Yes, the circumstances were different, but the ultimate issue is the same: Does user convience override corproate policy? In my book, the answer is no. If that means I have to run MS-Windows, I run MS-Windows, or quit. As it happens, I am rather more likely to do the latter then the former. That does not give me the right to violate said policy. I'm NOT TALKING ABOUT CORPORATE IT SYSTEMS. A Desktop is not a Corporate IT system, at least IMO. Well, that does change the picture quite a bit, and I can see why that stance would confuse this discussion further. Sufice it to say that I almost completely disagree with that stance. I won't get into why in this forum at this time. (We've wasted enough bandwidth as is. ;-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Open SSH for Red Hat 6.2
On Sat, 6 Jul 2002, at 7:46pm, Bayard R. Coolidge wrote: And, to bring all this back on topic, I'm still trying to figure out why folks are straining to retrofit the OpenSSH patches onto Red Hat 6.2. Speak for youself. :-) We (meaing the company I work for, collectively) are not straining. As I said, with a current RHL 6.2 system, compiling OpenSSH is absurdly easy. As for why we are still using RHL 6.2: Because, by-and-large, it does what we need. Switching to a new release would just double our overhead in terms of configuration management and maintenance, and for almost zero benefit. (This is on the server side, mind you -- the latest KDE or GNOME means nothing to a box that never runs X11. The Linux desktops we have in the office are running newer software.) Trying to maintain a RH 6.2 system to that level of protection [having the latest security patches installed] is a frightening prospect... Not really. ftp://updates.redhat.com/6.2/en/os/ has everything you need. Red Hat is generally quite good at providing quick updates when vulnerabilities are discovered. As I've said many times, one of the reasons I switched to Linux was to get off the upgrade treadmill. Same principle applies here. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Multi-NIC routing...
On Fri, 5 Jul 2002, at 8:59am, Ken Ambrose wrote: Now I understand that having more than one default gateway is... weird, and, usually, means that you're running a routing protocol such as IGRP or somesuch. But what if you're not? The kernel router works by finding entries in the routing table which provide a route for the destination address of the packet. If more than one entry matches, it uses the entry with the highest metric. If multiple entires tie for the highest metric, the kernel simply picks the first one. If you are not using a routing daemon, then the kernel will always choose the same default route. If that route is down, the packets go into a black hole. That is why routing daemons exist; to make the routing table respond to link state changes. Is there any way to say something like if traffic originates on eth0, reply to it from eth0; if it comes from eth1, then use eth1, and go from there? Normally, IP routing does not look at the source address, only the destination address. What you describe is called policy routing, and I believe it is only available in kernel 2.4 or later. The details I am fuzzy on, but I think it might be part of the IPTABLES code. Try Google for Linux policy routing. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Debian flamewar reborn (was: Open SSH for Red Hat 6.2)
On Wed, 3 Jul 2002, at 8:42am, Rich Payne wrote: We do paint with a broad brush stroak don't we. Yes, and I want to apologize for the tone of my messages in this thread yesterday. While everything I said had a basis in real opinions and experience, I went a little over the top with the sarcasm and invective. That was uncalled for, and I regret it. That is what comes from posting messages on a controversial subject after having a bad day at work... :-( On Wed, 3 Jul 2002, at 8:53am, Ben Boulanger wrote: Also, up2date will install packages that aren't already installed... I think it's something like up2date packagename - the real benefit here is that you don't have to go hunting down dependency packages... up2date does it for you. Which, in fairness, is something Debian pioneered with APT. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Debian flamewar reborn (was: Open SSH for Red Hat 6.2)
On Wed, 3 Jul 2002, at 9:12am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right, but RedHat still hasn't released the code to their up2date server right? No, nor do they plan to. Red Hat considers their update server system to be an intellectual property asset and a value-added service. However, the up2date client is fully Open Source, the data format is open, and others can -- and indeed, have -- implemented their own back-ends. Debian people always rave about APT, and about how many packages Debian has. Myself, I have not been impressed by that. What *does* impress me about Debian is that there is a well defined, clearly documented policy on how the system is put together; that every part of the Debian project, including management and distribution infrastructure, follows Open Source principles; and that every package has a directly responsible person associated with it, registered with a GPG public key and a photo ID. These factors do not make the distribution inherently better from a functional standpoint, but they do make for an admirable project that has an excellent long-term outlook. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Debian flamewar reborn (was: Open SSH for Red Hat 6.2)
On 3 Jul 2002, at 11:43am, Cole Tuininga wrote: We have a couple RH boxes around here, one of which is 7.2. I tried doing exactly this, and it began to complain about missing some rpm rpms? I couldn't figure out how to fulfill the dependency? That's odd. What RPMs was it complaining about? I am wondering if some third-party RPMs are installed which depend on currently installed versions of Red Hat RPMs, and which would therefore break if said dependencies were upgraded. You might also try the --verbose switch. We do have apt-rpm on that box. It, unfortunately, was not much help either. An important thing to remember is that a package management system is as only as good as the information in the package database. The good ole GIGO principle applies here. I have seen plenty of packages (from vendors and contributors alike) that had incomplete or outright wrong information in their descriptors. The OpenSSH RPM is a good example: The header specifies that it requires PAM, but does not specify which version of PAM. The result is that RPM tries to build it even if an old version of PAM (which lacks some needed components) is installed. Then the build fails with an obscure message, leaving the user wondering what went wrong. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: package management, etc. (was Re: Debian flamewar reborn)
On Wed, 3 Jul 2002, at 12:20pm, Derek D. Martin wrote: Missing from both right now, I think, is the ability to say that a particular package is recommended, but not required (does dpkg do this?) Debian's system does do this. A package can be Required, Recommended, or Suggested. It is very nice in this regard. IOW if I want gnome but don't have a sound card, then esound isn't going to do me a damn bit of good... The problem here is that, because GNOME is a big, interconnected environment, any GNOME application (e.g., gnome-terminal) ends up being linked to the libesd library. You might be able to disable it at compile time, but you would have to recompile the world to do it. The best solution available is to install the esound package and disable the sound daemon itself. This is a quite impressive feat, and Red Hat would do well to copy it. I actually think Red Hat would do very poorly to copy it. The main reason Debian can only get a release out every three years is the size of the package repository. A rule of configuration management is that the complexity of the system is roughly equal to 2 raised to N, where N is the number of components in the system. Debian has, what, 3000 packages now? So, the number of potential interactions is 2 to the 3000th power. That yields a number about 900 digits long. I expect Debian will eventually have to split the repository into several smaller mini-distributions, managed independently of each other. That way, you could, for example, have a stable release of the base system, at which point (1) base maintainers can start working on the next release and (2) other maintainers could start developing against the new base release. As things stand right now, all 3000 plus packages have to be in sync for a release. That is insane. The problem is worse when you consider all the other vendors who use RPM... often RPMs for one system won't work on another (though often they will). That is not a problem with package managers. It is a problem with computers in general. I've said it before and I will say it again: Binary packages are very dependent on their build environment. Just because RPM is smart enough to *tell you* this does not mean the problem is with RPM. Packages built for distros that use it as their core will work on all of the other distros that use it too... Unless there is only going to be one release of UnitedLinux, and they are never going to ever release any updates, that will not be true. For what happens when you have release 1 of the C library from UnitedLinux, but I built my package against the updated release 2? What *would* help, and is not done nearly enough, is if software designers and package maintainers put more effort into making sure different versions of their libraries could co-exist on the same system. Don't get me wrong, I think things like the LSB and UnitedLinux are a good idea, but they are not a panacea. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Open SSH for Red Hat 6.2
On Tue, 2 Jul 2002, at 9:38am, Thomas M. Albright wrote: Can anybody help me find it? Or will I need to futz around with the SRPMs to make it work. Building an RPM from source is pathetically easy. Simple execute: rpm --rebuild name-of-source-rpm-file You will find the resulting binary RPMs in: /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/ Then install them. That is all you need to do. Or (better still) are older versions of openssh not vulnerable? You can disable some options, but all in all, you really, really should upgrade to the latest release. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Open SSH for Red Hat 6.2
On Tue, 2 Jul 2002, at 10:24am, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: rpm --rebuild name-of-source-rpm-file Nice advice, but doesn't work; the build fails with cipher.c not finding a few EVP_CIPH_* symbols. Ummm... oh, yeah, duh. *forehead slap* You need to add a define. Like this: rpm --rebuild openssh-3.4p1-1.src.rpm --define 'build_6x 1' -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Open SSH for Red Hat 6.2
On Tue, 2 Jul 2002, at 10:21am, mike ledoux wrote: Well, I've built 3.4p1 RPMs for RH6.2 using the SRPM provided by the OpenSSH folks, no problems. You need openssl 0.9.6 and openssl-devel 0.9.6 ... It also works for me with the openssl 0.95a package from Red Hat 6.2 errata. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Open SSH for Red Hat 6.2
On Tue, 2 Jul 2002, at 10:43am, mike ledoux wrote: (OpenSSL 0.9.5a is partially supported, but some ciphers (SSH protocol 1 Blowfish included) do not work correctly.) Ah. No wonder I never noticed, I use Protocol 2 in my configuration files. :-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Open SSH for Red Hat 6.2
On Tue, 2 Jul 2002, at 1:56pm, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: Closer, but no SEE-gar (as Albert would say): auth2-pam.c:146: `__func__' undeclared (first use in this function) All I can say is, I've built it from SRPM several times, and even went back and did it when this thread first started, and it works just fine (minus the MS-Windows PuTTY issues Mike Ledoux describes). From your little rant there, I can tell you haven't installed the Red Hat errata for 6.2. Among other things, the errata includes the RPMs you had such trouble with, all packaged up and ready to go, in the right format so you can install RPM V4 without needing RPM V4 already installed. They also provide several things needed for OpenSSH, including PAM and OpenSSL. The README for OpenSSH does note this, BTW. A legitimate bitch here might be that the OpenSSH .spec file should be improved to require the minimum version of PAM it will work with. 12. Force the install anyway.. You just invalidated your package management system. Is this, perhaps, why you are having trouble? I have noted that there appears to be a correlation between people who arbitrarily override package managers and people who dislike package managers. I suspect they cause their own problems. By overriding dependencies, something on the system does not have everything it needs, and can be expected to fail, likely in obscure ways. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Debian flamewar reborn (was: Open SSH for Red Hat 6.2)
On 2 Jul 2002, at 2:24pm, Cole Tuininga wrote: Step 1) apt-get update Step 2) apt-get -u upgrade Well, Red Hat nicely provides the up2date utility, which does the same thing, in one less step: Step 1) up2date -u The problem here is that Red Hat Linux 6.2 does not include OpenSSH at all, so it cannot be updated. Upgrading to RHL 7.0 would solve the problem, because it does include OpenSSH, and thus can be automatically updated. The difference is in the way the distributions are managed. I have tried explaining the difference before, but Debian users are all so convinced of the innate superiority of Debian that they cannot seem to grasp anything that is not overflowing praise of it. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Open SSH for Red Hat 6.2
On Tue, 2 Jul 2002, at 3:36pm, mike ledoux wrote: I do as well, but I still ran into trouble; when statically linked with 0.9.5a, PuTTY couldn't connect, when statically linked with 0.9.6 everything works as expected. Unfortunately, we do have several windows users here that need to be able to access the servers. Interesting. I never actually tried that combination before, but I just did, and it worked. Red Hat Linux 6.2 + errata OpenSSL 0.9.5a-7.6.x OpenSSH 3.4p1-1 PuTTY 0.52 Obviously, you have solved the problem to your own satisfaction, but I figured it was worth mentioning. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Open SSH for Red Hat 6.2
On Tue, 2 Jul 2002, at 7:33pm, John Abreau wrote: One issue with cygwin is setting up a user id. I was not able to change cygwin's user id on my win2k system at work. It defaults to administrator. That's right, I had forgotten about that (haven't had to touch Windows in ages). It was kind of annoying to have to use -l all the time. Couldn't you use the User directive in your $HOME/.ssh/config file, and then use -l if you want something else? -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: windowing systems
On Tue, 2 Jul 2002, at 7:37pm, Tom Rauschenbach wrote: What GUI do you folks recommend. I'd rather not be trapped in KDE or Gnome. Is there a standard/accepted GUI that C++ people write to ? Is it portable to Motif, KDE, Gnome ? Heh. Standard GUI is an oxymoron. :-) Motif is ANSI C, IIRC. It is relatively portable on commercial Unix systems. Free systems (e.g., Linux) have traditionally lacked in that department, although I hear Lestiff is making progress. KDE uses Qt, but Qt does not need KDE. Qt is available for MS-Windows and Unix. Qt is C++ only, AFAIK. I've looked at Qt, and it looks pretty nice, from an OO-perspective. One bit of weirdness is that it requires its own C++ pre-processor, called moc. GNOME uses GTK+, but GTK+ does not need GNOME. GTK+ is available mainly for Unix. There is a MS-Windows port, but from what I hear, it is a bit of a hack. GTK+ is written in C, but bindings are available for C++ and other languages (I believe). The most language portable GUI library is probably Tk. Originally written for TCL, bindings are now available for Perl, Python, either C or C++ or both (I forget which), and likely several other things. The biggest problem with Tk is that it is butt ugly. ;-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: please remove me
On Tue, 2 Jul 2002, at 7:58pm, Rick Barr wrote: Could someone please remove me from this list. Majordomo is not allowing me to remove myself. You can contact the list manager via [EMAIL PROTECTED]. I recommend doing that; Mark may miss your message to the general list. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Masqueraded SSH connection timeouts?
On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, at 4:27pm, Michael O'Donnell wrote: ... once I've established SSH sessions from machines behind my firewall to certain remote machines, they die (pretty much to the second) after two hours if I just leave them idle. In order to make masquerading happen, the firewall has to keep track of the state of each connection being masqueraded. There are timeouts built-in to the firewall to keep abnormally terminated connections (e.g., host lost power) from exhausting resources. When SSH is idle, no packets are being exchanged for that TCP session. Eventually, the firewall decides the session is dead, and stops keeping track of it. The next time activity actually occurs in SSH, the firewall rejects the packets (Connection reset by peer), since the firewall has forgotten about the session. The default timeout period for an open TCP session in Linux 2.2 is ten minutes. I suspect your connections are actually dieing a lot sooner than two hours; it is simply not noticed right away, since SSH is idle. If I establish identical client sessions on (instead of through) my firewall machine those idle sessions seem to stay up indefinitely. Right, because when you initiate from the firewall, no masquerading needs to be done -- the packets already are from that host. The SSH configs on all my client machines are pretty much out-of-the-box defaults; I haven't messed with any of the keepalives or other options and I'd prefer not to until I understand what's going on here. Assuming you are running a reasonably recent version of OpenSSH, add the following line to your /etc/ssh/sshd_config file. It causes sshd to send a sort of ping via the SSH encrypted channel every sixty seconds. That will keep any firewall or other connection monitor happy. ClientAliveInterval 60 The above option only applies to SSH protocol version 2, and thus will not help for SSH protocol version 1 clients. It is also not supported properly by all SSH protocol 2 client implementations, so it may cause premature disconnects in some cases. It may therefore require some testing in your environment. OpenSSH's sshd also has a KeepAlive option, which is supposed to accomplish the same thing. However, in our experience, it does not always work, while the above does. If adding the above is not possible, you can look at the -S -M command in ipchains(8). Increasing the open TCP session timeout may help. However, increasing it too far may lead to problems with resource exhaustion on the firewall. Hope this helps, -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: OT - Where would you buy stuff?
On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, at 1:02pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you had the choice between buying off the web or from the local BestBuy for a slightly higher price, what would you do? I would research the web vendor to find out their past history and expected longevity. I would seek opinions from people. If they look like a legitimate operation, I would buy from them. Otherwise, I would find another vendor. The only advantage places like BestBuy, CompUSA, and Circuit City have are: 1. Instant gratification. 2. They are more likely to be around next month than a random web vendor. 3. They are close enough to make going physically there practical. If you are willing to pay for next-day shipping, #1 is not that big a deal. If you deal with an established and trusted web vendor, #2 becomes a non-issue. You are likely to get better selections, pricing, and service, too. #2 is only an issue if you found some random price on the Internet at flybynightvending.com or whatever. #3 is the only thing a web vendor cannot match. There is nothing like a shouting match with a store manager to get some wheels turning. ;-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: OT - Where would you buy stuff?
On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, at 12:27pm, Rich C wrote: I'm not overly fond of Best Buy, but they do offer the convience of being local, which provides me the ability to go and beat someone over the head should I need to :) Which can also be done effectively by phone, especially if you use their toll free ordering line to complain. This I disagree with. Your call costs them next to nothing. They can put you on hold endlessly, leave you in voicemail limbo, transfer you around in circles, or just plain disconnect you. I've been there many, many times. Being able to physically go somewhere, see a manager, and tie him or her up with your problem until it is solved is worlds better than a phone call. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Linux OS kernel question
On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, at 8:05am, Tom Rauschenbach wrote: You know, of course, that most debuggers allow you to catch reads and writes to a certain memory location already, right? Sure, but they usually do it by inserting an illegal instruction at the beginning of each statement boundary ... hardware support for debuggers would be hard to beat. People make such a huge deal about something being implemented in hardware vs software. In most cases, the only difference between them is that hardware is harder to change. Sure, implementation details often mean specialized hardware is faster than code running on a general-purpose processor, but that is an effect of the specific design, not a law of nature. Code running on a special-purpose processor can be quite fast, and logic built from general-purpose gate arrays has a much lower speed limit (compared to integrated ASICs). Hardware implementation has a cost, too. You complain that debuggers use special instructions or more memory to do what they do. What do you think the hardware is going to do? For breakpoints, the hardware would have to keep track of your breakpoint list, and check every instruction as it runs. That would actually be *slower* than simply inserting a new instruction in the code. Ditto for a memory watch location. Similarly, implementing memory protection for individual program variables would incur a huge memory and processor overhead -- just like ElectricFence. That is why there is interest in making page tables larger in the first place -- the overhead of keeping track of all those comparatively tiny four kilobyte pages in a machine with gigabytes of memory can be *huge*. As usual, There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. :-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Linux OS kernel question
On 26 Jun 2002, at 9:28am, Kevin D. Clark wrote: The hardware *does not* run in the following way: again: is the PC (program counter) at a breakpoint? if so, break run the instruction at the PC goto again; That was actually my point. The OP complained about the debugger having to insert instructions into the code to implement breakpoints; I was trying to demonstrate that the alternative would be quite a bit worse. Sorry if I did not make that clear. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: OT - Where would you buy stuff?
This is getting *really* off-topic, but what the heck... On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, at 8:39am, Ben Boulanger wrote: Being able to physically go somewhere, see a manager, and tie him or her up with your problem until it is solved is worlds better than a phone call. So then web vendors need to start recognizing this. How do they compete there? I am not sure they do. One of the most expensive things a business has (in this country, anyway) is people. Aside from their salary, you have health-care, insurance, HR overhead, space for them to work, equipment to enable their job, power for all that, and so on. People aren't machines; they need breaks, they are not constantly busy, and so on. The benefit of people, of course, is that they are so much more flexible than machines. But one of the major selling points of a web-only operation like Amazon is that they eliminate all that overhead. Putting it back in would negate that benefit. There is, of course, the other web business model -- the hybrid model, where a brick mortar outfit (e.g., BestBuy, Barns and Nobel) uses a web site to offer additional selections, easier searches, off-hours browsing, etc. You can elect to use direct-to-customer shipping, or pick-up/drop-off at the local office. There usually is no regular web discount in such situations, though. ObLinux: Amazon uses Linux. ;-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Linux OS kernel question
On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, at 9:19am, Michael O'Donnell wrote: People make such a huge deal about something being implemented in hardware vs software. In most cases, the only difference between them is that hardware is harder to change. In this watchpoint case I fail to see how the HW solution can be described as anything but a huge win. Well, I suppose it depends on the implementation. My understanding of low-level hardware design stops at the basic theory point, and not much of that. But I am curious: How does the hardware watch a memory location without incurring any overhead? It would seem to me that there must be some sort of cost involved. I assume we can agree that there is a continuum of problems that can be solved with either HW or SW (and these days the boundary between the two is blurrier than ever) but in commodity systems I assume you'd agree that modems, NICs, SCSI adapters, etc are all examples where the corresponding SW solution would more or less have to suck by comparison... Oh, certainly. As you say, the line is blurrier than ever, which was what I was trying to get at. Indeed, high-end NICs and SCSI cards these days often have quite a bit of processing power onboard, with firmware to drive it. To the host PC, it is a hardware device, but close-up, it resembles a computer in itself. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: OT - Where would you buy stuff?
On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, at 10:43am, Rich Cloutier wrote: Then you have never been confronted with the blank stare of death. Sure have. But the thing is, I can keep that manager busy and not doing anything else until I get service. Eventually, they give. It's cheaper to give me a refund than pay a manager to stare at me. :-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Linux OS kernel question
On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, at 10:01am, Michael O'Donnell wrote: However, this is activity that all modern processors are already engaged in for the purposes of cache management and such (Dcache, Icache, TLB, etc) so rigging these subsystems to generate an exception whenever a (relatively cheap, silicon-wise) recognizer sees an address go flying by is not really much additional expense. Ah ha! I see (said the blind man). Thanks for the nice explanation. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
NO MEETING tonight (26 Jun 2002)
On Wed, 26 Jun 2002, at 3:46pm, Ganesan M wrote: Is there a meeting today? The meeting originally scheduled for Wed 26 June 2002 has been reschedule for 10 July 2002. The calendar at http://www.gnhlug.org/lug_cal/month.php?date=20020701 has been updated to reflect this. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)
On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, at 8:45am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... you shouldn't allow NFS access to your mail spool ... Ever. NFS's history of piss-poor file locking means a shared mailspool is a recipe for disaster in any kind of heterogeneous environment. It might work if your favorite implementation does locking right, and everyone is using that same implementation, but otherwise, forget it. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)
On 25 Jun 2002, at 9:18am, Kevin D. Clark wrote: Ever. NFS's history of piss-poor file locking means a shared mailspool is a recipe for disaster in any kind of heterogeneous environment. NFS file locking has gotten better over the years. Right. The problem is that not every OS release has kept pace, and that not every computer in the world is running an OS release that has kept pace. And, since this is a Linux list, and Linux for a long time had the worst NFS implementation in the world, I think these concerns are justified. Yes, if you know for sure every system on your network does NFS locking right, you are okay. But I've seen the results of what happens when you get one system that doesn't do locking right in the mix, and it ain't pretty. Maildir format works just fine over NFS, no locking required. Okay, that's a good point. These concerns only apply to the admittedly lame but unfortunately common Berkley mbox format. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 10:41am, Steven W. Orr wrote: I just discovered this existed and was wondering what I need to do to listen. You need a player for whatever format the broadcaster is using. For example, Shoutcast's network (http://www.shoutcast.com) uses streaming MP3. The XMMS player (http://www.xmms.org) handles these just fine. If you associate the MIME type audio/x-scpls (extension PLS) with XMMS, all you have to do is click the link in your browser. This is an open standard, which, of course, means the media cartel discourages it. Many commercial radio stations broadcast using RealAudio, which can be played using RealPlayer. This is a proprietary format, which makes it more attractive to the media cartel, since they think that means it will stop piracy (of course, it does not; it merely inconveniences their customers). There is a RealPlayer binary available for Intel Linux which works for most such systems at http://proforma.real.com/real/player/unix/unix.html. For Windows Media, there is no native player. Some people report varying degrees of success using emulation environments like Wine, Win4Lin, CodeWeavers, etc. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 11:00am, Bayard Coolidge USG wrote: There is an interesting article about this in The Register, though: http://www.theregus.com/content/6/25325.html I find Shoutcast's statement on the matter to be the most unbiased I have seen yet. Open http://www.shoutcast.com and scroll down past the stream list to view it. I think the best point they make is, ... basically forces all broadcasters, hobbyist or not, to either move to content that is not label-owned, or pay the labels ... [1]. The works in question are protected by copyright; the copyright owners (the media cartel) can do whatever they want with them, including deny you access completely. I think the most appropriate action here would be anti-trust proceedings against the media cartel. Their actions are obviously those of a trust intent on illegally controlling the market. Unfortunately, as evidenced by such legislation as the DMCA, the media cartel has effectively bought our government, making such proceedings unlikely. George Orwell's mistake was assuming that the threat of totalitarianism was from government. 1984 is arriving twenty years late. Footnote [1] Note that this is a quotation, and thus is covered under the fair-use provisions of copyright law, and thus is exempt from the copyright restriction that AOL Time Warner places on their statement. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Argh! Mailman, please!
On 24 Jun 2002, at 11:47am, Paul Iadonisi wrote: Can we *please* switch to mailman for the list someday? Majordomo can handle bounces quite well. The configuration of the list server is a political problem, not a technical one. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?
On 24 Jun 2002, at 11:41am, Paul Iadonisi wrote: George Orwell's mistake was assuming that the threat of totalitarianism was from government. 1984 is arriving twenty years late. Here, here! I just had this discussion with my brother over the weekend. What we're heading to, (or rather, what we *have*) is nothing short of a plutocracy. I prefer the term corpocracy, myself. It is not wealthy people that control this country, but wealthy corporations. A particularly good paranoid rant can be found here: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Controlling_Corporations/Introduction_CN.html This isn't conspiracy, as conspiracy is usually hidden. Our current powers that be shamefully flaunt their grab for power as if it were a God given right. American culture says that amassing money and power are good, so it must be, right? -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Question about postings....
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 5:10pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I replied to a post this morning. I have not yet seen it arrive to the list yet. I saw a reply from your address, with a subject of What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?, this morning. Is that the message you are referring to? If so, I suspect the delay is in your mail feed. ... I now have a couple of mail administrator messages in my mailbox. Please forward any bounce messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and it will be taken care of. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 2:09pm, Matthew J. Brodeur wrote: It required finding the power switch in any case. Sounds just like Windows to me. ;-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 2:18pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... now I'm fetchmailing and procmailing my work e-mail as well. H... something just occurred to me. (I've got an idea, a'forming in my brain) It would be really nice if one could apply a set of procmail recipes to an IMAP mail store. That is, rather than having the MDA process each message as it comes in, have a program that, given an IMAP mail server, reads each message in the inbox, runs it through a procmail recipe file, and stores the result relative to the IMAP server. Sure, it would not be as efficient as doing it server-side, but for cases like this, where procmail couldn't run on the server even if the admins let you, it could be handy. Anyone know of anything like this? -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)
On 24 Jun 2002, at 3:19pm, Kevin D. Clark wrote: Could you provide clarification as to where you are proposing to store this? On the IMAP server itself? I am envisioning a procmail work-a-like program that runs on an IMAP client machine, but accesses and stores mail on an IMAP server. Basically, imagine a person who: - Wants or has to keep his mail on an IMAP mail server - Cannot run procmail on the server - Wants the filtering capabilities of procmail One of the ideas behind IMAP is to separate mail storage from the mail client. This fits in that puzzle somewhere. But it could also involve a thing that filed your mail for you (from the client) but kept the mail on the server side. Bingo. Given my druthers, I'd rather run my own server, but Paul's particular situation left him few options. Paul likes exmh, and MH clients and IMAP do not mix, so he would have little use for such a tool, I am sure. His post was just a catalyst for my idea. No, but I got my procmail - Maildir format - Courier IMAP setup running...I plan on posting a writeup soon. Cool! I'm sure Paul has already scheduling you for a meeting presentation. ;-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 4:07pm, Rich Payne wrote: That's one way, however you'd be transfering the message to the client, figuring out where to put it and then sending it back again. What's would be even better would be just to move the message on the imap server. Yes you'd still have to pull the message down, but you wouldn't need to send it back again. Oh, that's a good point. I hadn't thought of that. This raises a more general question: Does anyone here know of an IMAP client tool(set) that can be driven from a command line or a shell script? The more I think about it, the more I think such a thing would be useful. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 4:19pm, Derek D. Martin wrote: Basically, imagine a person who: - Wants or has to keep his mail on an IMAP mail server - Cannot run procmail on the server - Wants the filtering capabilities of procmail Isn't this what Netscape and Outbreak do when you enable filters? MS Outlook does not support filtering IMAP mail at all. As far as Netscape goes, I believe you are correct, but I am sure it is not as powerful as procmail is. :) Paul likes exmh, and MH clients and IMAP do not mix This isn't exactly true; Paul is just stubborn. It is true that exmh can't access IMAP folders directly. The solution to this problem is use fetchmail to retrieve the IMAP messages, and use exmh to read them locally. Which completely defeats the point of IMAP. I really wouldn't call that using MH and IMAP together. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 5:36pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, but you know, I'd really like to be able to use (ex)mh as an interface to an IMAP server. I've said this before: The Right Thing here would be to do this as a filesystem driver. Said filesystem driver would read an IMAP server, and present it to the client as a system of MH-style directories and files. This would allow you to use any current and/or future MH tools on an IMAP server. Implementation is left as an exercise for the reader. ;-) On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 5:40pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doesn't IMAP have commands to only grab headers and to re-file a msg? Yes. Of course, I do wierd things like actually filter and sort based on body content as well, which would then require tranferring the msg from the server to the client for processing, then sending it back to the server for filing. No, you would only need to transfer it to the client. Once the client made the decision, it could simply move the message using IMAP commands. Since exmh doesn't have direct IMAP support, it made more sense to run the client on the mail server. I might argue it makes more sense to fix the mail client. ;-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 6:02pm, Jerry Feldman wrote: In this case, that's part of the problem. But, what incentive was there for Win16 developers to go to Win32. Win95 did a much poorer job of running Win16 applications than OS/2 did. Not that Win95 did any better running Win32 applications. Microsoft just told developers that Win16 was the problem. So developers promptly ran out and bought all the new Win95 development tools. Which, of course, do a poor job of supporting older environments, forcing users to upgrade to Win95. Repeat for Win98. Repeat for Win2000. Repeat for WinXP. Certainly Win16 apps lack certain features in OS/2 ... Actually, OS/2's Win16 subsystem was amazing complete and stable. True, a Win16 application did not make use of everything OS/2 could do, but it ran very well. For OS/2, I think that the benefits of OS/2 did not provide an incentive for people to start buying OS/2 on their desktops. I tried to imply that OS/2 failed for more than one reason. IBM's poor marketing, and their bizarre business relationship with Microsoft, also contributed. As did the lack of development tools. As did Microsoft's well-documented anti-competitive practices regarding OEMs. Talk about your loosing battles. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
QuickTime (was: What do people use...)
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 6:02pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do occasionally use the Quicktime plugin from the CrossOver Plugins pkg, but I just heard that Xine will be supporting this in an up coming release I am told that QuickTime itself is actually reasonable open and well-documented, but that many of the CODECs used are not. I know that I have been able to view certain QuickTime movies using xanim under Linux without problems. The problem (or so the story goes) is that the preferred CODEC for QuickTime these days is only available from a company called Sorensen, and Apple's licensing deal with them prevents Sorensen from licensing it to anyone else. As far as Xine goes, they have created a decoder for one version of the Sorensen CODEC. However, the decoder does not work with the current version used by many websites. So, you can view the Star Wars Episode I trailer, but not the Episode II trailer. Or so I am told. A lot of this information is based on Slashdot postings, which are only slightly more reliable than a random-number generator. :-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: real scsi + ide-scsi module loading
On Sat, 22 Jun 2002, at 12:37pm, Derek D. Martin wrote: If memory serves, the AHA 1542 SCSI card is an ISA PnP card. Gosh, no. The venerable AHA-1542 pre-dates the ISA PnP standard by quite a bit. Not only is it covered in jumpers, but, IIRC, to disable termination, you have to manually remove resistor packs. :-) In order for it to load the modue for this card, you probably need to configure it properly using the isapnptools. If the card was not configured properly, it wouldn't work at all, but he says he can get it to load by manually insmod'ing it. So that isn't it. The problem, as the OP suspects, is just that the Linux kernel does not differentiate between one SCSI card and many -- since the IDE SCSI emulation module is already loaded, the kernel does not try loading another one. BTW: Welcome back, Derek. :-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: real scsi + ide-scsi module loading
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, at 4:43pm, Bill Freeman wrote: It has an ATA CDR on it that seems to correctly get serviced by, among other things, ide-scsi, which I presume acts as the (pseudo) host adapter for the connection. Yes. You will need that to use it as a CDR, which is only supported via IDE SCSI emulation. Kudzu (or whatever checks for new hardware) didn't notice, nor did the hardware browser. No, they wouldn't. Kudzu can only detect PCI and ISA PnP cards, of which the AHA-1542 is neither. The only way to detect a traditional ISA card like the AHA-1542 is by scanning for ROM strings or probing hardware registers. And the hardware browser, AFAIK, only tells you about what hardware is already configured and running in your system. ide-scsi seems to have been loaded at boot time, so when mount goes looking for /dev/sda4, it looks for it on that controller, rather than loading scsi_hostadapter. Correct. The kernel sees a SCSI host adapter already present, and does not try to auto-load another one. For now I've added a modprobe scsi_hostadapter to rc.local. I suppose I could fool with the 'boot' tag in modules.conf. I'd be pleased to hear other people's ideas of the right way to do it. I think that is the best way to do it. In my opinion, SCSI drivers aren't really something that you want dynamically loading and unloading, anyway. SCSI initialization is a slow and complicated process. Better to have it done once at boot, and stay running. Also, I'm interested to know how ide-scsi gets loaded, given that the CD drive doesn't get mounted as part of the boot process (as far as I know). Since you mention Kudzu, I assume you are running a Red Hat system. Check /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit, which does something with ide-scsi, IIRC. As I said, you are going to need it anyway, for CD recording. Hope this helps, -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: 10 most bizarre ways to destroy a laptop
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, at 11:50am, Mark Komarinski wrote: I have a pet rabbit that we occasionally let out and hop around the house. Before we really realized what was going on, she had chewed through the following: 2 audio cables I once knew someone who had run speaker cables from their stereo to other rooms in their house. I was there when one of his cats decided to try chewing through the wire -- while the stereo was playing. Never in my life have I ever seen a cat jump so high from a sitting position. :-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
SECURITY: Apache vulnerability - worm warning
As many of you may know, a bug has been discovered in the Apache web server which can lead to local account compromise. Earlier reports that only Win32 and 64-bit Unix platforms are vulnerable are incorrect; all platforms are considered vulnerable. More information here: http://httpd.apache.org/info/security_bulletin_20020620.txt To protect yourself from attack, make sure any system you have running Apache is not vulnerable. Minimum safe releases are: - Apache 1.3.26 or later - Apache 2.0.39 or later The amount of damage on Unix platforms is, in theory, limited by the fact that Apache normally runs as a regular user (not the root superuser). However, even a user account compromise can be fairly damaging. InfoWorld reports that a canned exploit tool designed to automate the exploitation of this bug has been found in the wild. A worm which enables completely automatic propagation is likely not far behind. http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z49B21B11 (InfoWorld) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Completely OT (More digital camera questions :)
On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, at 5:18pm, mike ledoux wrote: *I* don't think so, I'm completely happy with GIMP for what little post-processing I do to my photos. I will say that, in the hands of someone who knows how to use it, Adobe Photoshop is absolutely astounding in what it can do. (I am not one of those people. I have trouble drawing straight lines with a ruler.) The fact that Photoshop is currently MacOS and MS-Windows only is really too bad. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Anyone using Mahogany?
On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, at 11:27am, Andrew W. Gaunt wrote: Does anyone know of a PC that meets the following specs: o cheap Go to a PC show, buy parts, and build your own. (This assumes time is not costed, which, given your remark about a Wal-Mart PC, I assume to be the case.) http://www.ncshows.com http://www.pcshow.com The form factor you are looking for is often called a book PC. Basically, standard PC parts, but stuffed into a tiny box. Anything smaller, and you are talking semi-custom hardware (which != cheap). -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
What the media cartel wants (was: HP Drives ...)
On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, at 3:29pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... all Disney really wants is for the piracy to stop ... This I disagree with. From their behavior, the media cartel (i.e., RIAA and MPAA members, and other, similar groups) wants to control (i.e., profit from) every aspect of media distribution, from the time it is first created until it vibrates your ear drum and/or hits your retina. There is no right to fair use. -- Preston Padden, head of government relations, Walt Disney Corp. If the trend continues, Disney will become one of the biggest proponents of Linux. Most large companies, despite appearances, are made up of smaller factions within. What the Disney production studios like may be completely different from what corporate leadership and legal people want. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: What the media cartel wants (was: HP Drives ...)
On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, at 4:04pm, Jon Hall wrote: Remember that Disney also was well behind the Sonny Bono extension of the copyright period to 90 ears, er, ah, years. For those who are not aware, maddog is referring to Disney's practice of paying Congress to extend copyright for 10 to 20 years every time the copyright on their Mickey Mouse (C)(TM)(R) character is about to expire. Invest in America -- buy a Congressman! (Mickey Mouse is a registered trademark and copyright of Walt Disney Corporation. Use of the term Mickey Mouse in this message is in no way intended to imply ownership or license. Please do not send jackbooted thugs to my house to confiscate my computer, my laptop, my Palm Pilot, and/or my cell phone.) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: 26 June 2002 Quarterly Mtg Issues - Please Read!
On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, at 9:04am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Ximian is more than willing to hold to 26 June, but Nat won't be there to discuss Mono. [...] - Move the meeting to 10 July and get all that, plus Nat speaking about Mono. [...] What would people rather do? My vote is to reschedule for Wed 10 July. Wed 26 June is still two weeks away -- that is more advanced notice than we often get for meetings to begin with. :) Meanwhile, the point of the meeting is to learn stuff about Linux and related things, and we get more of that if we reschedule. However, my schedule is fairly flexible in this case. Others may have more restrictive schedules, which I think should be considered. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
