Re: NHPR bitcasts
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Jon Greenberg wrote: I also know that there are MP3 options and that PI is looking into those. I, myself, know nothing about this stuff, but if, perhaps, a member of the community with an understanding of the Open solutions (e.g., the Ogg stuff) were to step forward to Public Interactive, and offer our assistance, we could turn this into a reality. Now. Remember, when it comes to new stuff, business are interested in one thing and one thing only: ROI -- Return On Investment. If the Open solutions do not offer a good ROI, Public Interactive will not be interested. So, we have to provide reasons why PI should be interested. So. Thinking about it, if PI plays their cards right, they could turn this into a real money maker. Of course, their limited market focus may negate that, but let me pitch my theory anyway. First of all, both the Real and Microsoft solutions incur regular licensing costs (though forced upgrades). We can save them reoccuring costs there. That should be attractive, especially in this economy. Perhaps more importantly, however, this is an opportunity for PI (or another company) to create that all-important product distinction. To my knowledge, no one is really exploiting Open technology for streaming media distribution. Being the one to do so could be a determining factory in their own customers' purchasing decisions. XYZ Media Distribution is the only major streaming services provider supporting all three major streaming formats or whatever. One other thing: Remember, 99% of their customer base is going to be using MS-Windows. If whatever solution (e.g., streaming MP3) does not have a free (as in beer), easy to install and easy to learn client for the Redmond platform, we might as well pack up and go home now. Does anyone know about this issue? -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: NHPR bitcasts
I don't have the specific experience that you are asking for, but I believe that the answer is that you and others that are knowledgable and capable should volunteer to go to the NHPR station, propose exactly how you will provide equipment and software to create your solution, and then once approved, implement and provide continued support for said solution. This is precisely what Rob Lembree did back before they had any web presense. - Marc On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Randy Edwards wrote: A couple of months ago I wrote to NHPR http://www.nhpr.org complaining that I couldn't listen to their online bitcasts because they broadcast using only Windows' bitcasting software. I expressed some surprise that they weren't supporting all listeners and by their choice were supporting a company convicted of enforcing a monopoly, blah, blah, blah. I got a reply back that they had few complaints about their Microsoft bitcasting software, and that they would look into the matter. Yesterday I received a combination pledge request/answer. They wrote: - - - snip - - - At some point in the past 6 months or so you sent us a request that we offer the Real Audio option for our live stream. We'd like to deliver. We offer Real and Windows Media for our archived audio; it makes sense to do the same for our live stream. The only catch is a fairly modest amount of money. Steve Bothwick, our IT guy, and I figure that it will cost us at least $2,000 to set this up. That includes the charges we would pay to Public Interactive, the firm that provides our streaming, and our set-up costs here at NHPR, both internally and on our web site. The $2,000 is a one-time fee. I don't know if all of the people on the Real Audio list gave during the most recent membership drive but I hope you will see the Real Audio issue as the thing apart because quite frankly, we've only received about 20 requests for Real Audio live streaming. What I'd like to propose is some very targeted giving. Please let me know if you would be willing to contribute to this specific goal of offering Real Audio live streaming. Let me know how much you would be able to give and whether you would want to pass this note along to others whom you think share your interest in Real Audio. If I see that the response is strong enough, I'll get back to you and we will make this happen. If the response falls short, I'll get back to you and let you know that as well. If you can think of a better way to handle this, feel free to let me know. Regards, Jon Greenberg Senior Editor/Dir. of New Media - - - snip - - - Now, the way I see it, the problem is two-fold: First, I don't like the fact that I can't listen to NHPR because I run GNU/Linux. But secondly, there's the entire concept of broadcasting this in a proprietary format -- IMHO, Real Audio is only a small improvement over the Windows bitcasting. Does anyone have an experience with bitcasting with IceCast, the Ogg Vorbis-embraced bitcasting software? -- Regards, | Need help with educational technology? .| Randy| Stop by http://www.EdTechHelp.Net * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. * * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: NHPR bitcasts
I exchanged a lot of email with NHPR on this matter a few weeks ago during their fund drive. (I sent them a message during their spring fund drive indicating that we were witholding our donations until they had a solution that wasn't specific to Microsoft and similar messages more recently.) Their most recent response (I'm looking for my copy of those messages now) was that Microsoft was a significant contributor to NHPR, and that the volume of requests for Real Audio was too small. (I wonder how many requests they got for Microsoft's Player versus how many requests they got for just a live audio stream). I think we're running into a bureaucratic head-wedgedness here - probably related to being more concerned about getting funding than where the funding comes from and any agendas (explicit or de-facto) behind that funding. Marc had a good idea about going to NHPR and showing them some possible solutions. However, I seem to remember some people trying this earlier (last spring) and getting rebuffed by NHPR. I think the fact that NHPR is outsourcing their streaming has something to do with this. On the whole, I'm very much discouraged with this and feel that NHPR/NPR is playing the old corporate games rather than looking for new markets or doing their share to stem the influence of monopolies in our society. If my employment situation and the economy were different, I'd just donate the $2K and be done with it (they mentioned $2500 a few weeks ago, so the price appears to be going down). But that wouldn't solve the problem of making Microsoft's monopoly even bigger or more potent. --Bruce Randy Edwards wrote: A couple of months ago I wrote to NHPR http://www.nhpr.org complaining that I couldn't listen to their online bitcasts because they broadcast using only Windows' bitcasting software. I expressed some surprise that they weren't supporting all listeners and by their choice were supporting a company convicted of enforcing a monopoly, blah, blah, blah. I got a reply back that they had few complaints about their Microsoft bitcasting software, and that they would look into the matter. Yesterday I received a combination pledge request/answer. They wrote: - - - snip - - - At some point in the past 6 months or so you sent us a request that we offer the Real Audio option for our live stream. We'd like to deliver. We offer Real and Windows Media for our archived audio; it makes sense to do the same for our live stream. The only catch is a fairly modest amount of money. Steve Bothwick, our IT guy, and I figure that it will cost us at least $2,000 to set this up. That includes the charges we would pay to Public Interactive, the firm that provides our streaming, and our set-up costs here at NHPR, both internally and on our web site. The $2,000 is a one-time fee. I don't know if all of the people on the Real Audio list gave during the most recent membership drive but I hope you will see the Real Audio issue as the thing apart because quite frankly, we've only received about 20 requests for Real Audio live streaming. What I'd like to propose is some very targeted giving. Please let me know if you would be willing to contribute to this specific goal of offering Real Audio live streaming. Let me know how much you would be able to give and whether you would want to pass this note along to others whom you think share your interest in Real Audio. If I see that the response is strong enough, I'll get back to you and we will make this happen. If the response falls short, I'll get back to you and let you know that as well. If you can think of a better way to handle this, feel free to let me know. Regards, Jon Greenberg Senior Editor/Dir. of New Media - - - snip - - - Now, the way I see it, the problem is two-fold: First, I don't like the fact that I can't listen to NHPR because I run GNU/Linux. But secondly, there's the entire concept of broadcasting this in a proprietary format -- IMHO, Real Audio is only a small improvement over the Windows bitcasting. Does anyone have an experience with bitcasting with IceCast, the Ogg Vorbis-embraced bitcasting software? -- Regards, | Need help with educational technology? .| Randy| Stop by http://www.EdTechHelp.Net * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. * -- For the latest CodeMeta news, go to http://www.codemeta.com/news . For my personal news, go to http://www.milessmithfarm.net/news . * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: NHPR bitcasts
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Randy Edwards wrote: Now, the way I see it, the problem is two-fold: First, I don't like the fact that I can't listen to NHPR because I run GNU/Linux. But secondly, there's the entire concept of broadcasting this in a proprietary format -- IMHO, Real Audio is only a small improvement over the Windows bitcasting. Does anyone have an experience with bitcasting with IceCast, the Ogg Vorbis-embraced bitcasting software? No, but my roommate used to run a shoutcast server from here. It is licensed for personal use, but the license does indicate that it wouldn't be too hard to get permission for other uses. Of course, there are also the few projects at sourceforge, etc Any just about any current media player (xmms, M$, RealAudio, etc.) can handle MP3 Free (or at least cheap), easy to set up, and universally listenable. That's what they could use IMnsHO Brian --- | [EMAIL PROTECTED]Spam me and DIE! | | http://www.datasquire.net | | Co-Founder Co-Owner of| | Data Squire Internet Services | --- * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: NHPR bitcasts
In a message dated: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 07:10:59 EST Randy Edwards said: If you can think of a better way to handle this, feel free to let me know. Yeah: 1. Don't bit-cast in a proprietary format, use Ogg/Vorbis 2. Don't ask for money, ask for help. A lot of us are short on cash, but (soon to be) long on spare time! Does anyone have an experience with bitcasting with IceCast, the Ogg Vorbis-embraced bitcasting software? Not personally, but I know Kenny has done some with it. -- Seeya, Paul God Bless America! ...we don't need to be perfect to be the best around, and we never stop trying to be better. Tom Clancy, The Bear and The Dragon * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: NHPR bitcasts
- Original Message - From: Bruce Dawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Marc Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 8:41 AM Subject: Re: NHPR bitcasts Their most recent response (I'm looking for my copy of those messages now) was that Microsoft was a significant contributor to NHPR, Likely they are a contributor of software as well as dollars and this helps generate the vicious cycle. and that the volume of requests for Real Audio was too small. (I wonder how many requests they got for Microsoft's Player versus how many requests they got for just a live audio stream). Bingo! Its not as if there was a poll as to which product to use. They picked one used by most people and then can claim quite correctly, surprise, that not many people ask for anything else. Its all about the majority governs. This rule applies in many areas and places where it shouldn't, but there it is. Governs means the minority on an issue have no say and essentially do not exist. Its a non-issue to me because I only listen to the Car Guys occasionally as well as news sporadically. I will never contribute to fund the current format which is banal beyond words. IMHO the world did not need more talk radio even if erudite in the minds of some. Their comment that if people want to listen to music they can get it over the Internet was ignorant and profoundly stupid. H. I guess I feel more strongly about this than I thought. IMHO getting Open Source used in schools and local non-profits is a task worth taking on as opposed to fencing with these turkeys. Ed Lawson * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: NHPR bitcasts
Hi all, As a new guy on the block, and a die hard Macintosh (now *improved* with Linux!) user I'm curious that no one has commented about QuickTime for live streaming. I suppose because its just another proprietary format, but in that respect I would guess it should at least be the equal of Real Audio, which I dislike. What do you folks think about QuickTime? --Michael * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: NHPR bitcasts
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Michael Bovee wrote: As a new guy on the block, and a die hard Macintosh (now *improved* with Linux!) user I'm curious that no one has commented about QuickTime for live streaming. I suppose because its just another proprietary format, but in that respect I would guess it should at least be the equal of Real Audio, which I dislike. What do you folks think about QuickTime? Quicktime, from a purely technical standpoint, is pretty nifty. HOWEVER: 1) It is proprietary, and 2) They don't offer a Linux version. Alas, when you put these two together, you will see virtually no support for Quicktime in the Linux community. (Real, while also proprietary, has had a Linux version, which continues to get updated, for several years now.) Perhaps some day, especially what with OS-X, Apple will come out with a Linux version, but I ain't holding my breath. Apple, unlike Microsoft, seems to just want to ignore the mere existence of Linux. I guess they figure (more or less rightly, I suppose) that Linux and Apple address fairly different market segments, and, therefore, feel no real need to worry about it one way or the other. Of course, in my biased opinion, the best of all possible worlds would be for an open standard to come along. I believe Ogg Vorbis(sp?) has something for streaming, and I'm also pretty sure there's a variable bitrate MP3 streaming format. (While MP3 is still patented, I believe the patent doesn't extend terribly far into the future.) $.02 -Ken * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: NHPR bitcasts
In a message dated: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 09:18:13 EST Ham said: and that the volume of requests for Real Audio was too small. (I wonder how many requests they got for Microsoft's Player versus how many requests they got for just a live audio stream). Bingo! Its not as if there was a poll as to which product to use. They picked one used by most people and then can claim quite correctly, surprise, that not many people ask for anything else. Its all about the majority governs. This rule applies in many areas and places where it shouldn't, but there it is. Governs means the minority on an issue have no say and essentially do not exist. Well, there is the old adage about the squeaky wheel, and from experience, let me tell you, I've seen some quite loud and squeaky wheels get exactly what they want simply because they made enough noise. They weren't a majority, or even close to it. In fact, I've seen the good of entire divisions sacrificed just to shut one person up. So, if we really want to get them to move in a direction we want them to, I think all we need to do is to get really loud about it. Make it known that we want a non-proprietary solution and that we're withholding donations because of it. Put up websites stating what we're doing, post to /., etc. Its a non-issue to me because I only listen to the Car Guys occasionally as well as news sporadically. I will never contribute to fund the current format which is banal beyond words. As a long time listener of NPR (Boston vs. NH, though) I can't agree with this any more strongly than you've already stated it. I find their news and talk shows so ridiculously slanted it's pathetic. About the only reason I listen to the news on WBUR is because I'm waiting for music to come back on some other station and their banal and slanted crap is at least as good or better than commercials or morning show DJs who can't spell their own station call letters. That, and I like Science Friday, which I seldom if ever get to listen too (though the way things are going, I may be home on Friday afternoons a whole lot more frequently in the near future :( IMHO the world did not need more talk radio even if erudite in the minds of some. Their comment that if people want to listen to music they can get it over the Internet was ignorant and profoundly stupid. Did you mention that we can get our news over the internet as well? As a matter of fact, NPR recently had a story on in the morning about how many people have given up on the common media outlets because they weren't providing any useful source of information and turning to net instead. Ironic :) H. I guess I feel more strongly about this than I thought. Me too, which is why I don't contribute to them. I'd rather listen to commercials than pledge drives. IMHO getting Open Source used in schools and local non-profits is a task worth taking on as opposed to fencing with these turkeys. Hear, Hear! (or is it Here, Here? :) -- Seeya, Paul God Bless America! ...we don't need to be perfect to be the best around, and we never stop trying to be better. Tom Clancy, The Bear and The Dragon * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: NHPR bitcasts
- Original Message - From: Ham [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:18 AM Subject: Re: NHPR bitcasts - Original Message - From: Bruce Dawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Marc Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 8:41 AM Subject: Re: NHPR bitcasts Their most recent response (I'm looking for my copy of those messages now) was that Microsoft was a significant contributor to NHPR, Likely they are a contributor of software as well as dollars and this helps generate the vicious cycle. and that the volume of requests for Real Audio was too small. (I wonder how many requests they got for Microsoft's Player versus how many requests they got for just a live audio stream). Bingo! Its not as if there was a poll as to which product to use. They picked one used by most people and then can claim quite correctly, surprise, that not many people ask for anything else. Its all about the majority governs. This rule applies in many areas and places where it shouldn't, but there it is. Governs means the minority on an issue have no say and essentially do not exist. I find this odd. What about Mac users? It seems to me that there is a large overlap in membership of the group that owns MacIntosh computers and the group that listens to NPR. Do Mac users have access to Windows technology to listen to streaming audio? If not, they must be alientated too. Rich Cloutier President, C*O SYSTEM SUPPORT SERVICES www.sysupport.com * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: NHPR bitcasts
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Rich C wrote: I find this odd. What about Mac users? It seems to me that there is a large overlap in membership of the group that owns MacIntosh computers and the group that listens to NPR. Do Mac users have access to Windows technology to listen to streaming audio? If not, they must be alientated too. They use this new, open-source hardware called a radio. G Actually, I think M$ has a Mac version of it's player. That or they go to www.npr.org and use the Real player. Brian --- | [EMAIL PROTECTED]Spam me and DIE! | | http://www.datasquire.net | | Co-Founder Co-Owner of| | Data Squire Internet Services | --- * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
