date:20030917

http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modloadname=Newsfile=articlesid=596mode=threadorder=0thold=0

Chomping on Nano-Nuggets
By Leslie Mullen
Astrobiology Magzine
September 17, 2003

Nanobacteria are not alive, but instead are the result of enzymes that break
down organic material, according to a new study published in the journal
Geology.

Eight years ago, features resembling bacteria and measuring 20 to 100
nanometers across were discovered in the Martian meteorite ALH84001. NASA
scientists interpreted these features to be the fossilized remnants of
ancient life, but many scientists rejected that conclusion.

A nanometer is one millionth of a millimeter. The period at the end of this
sentence is about one million nanometers long. The tiniest bacteria measure
about 200 nanometers in size, and many believe that life can't get much
smaller than that.

A committee formed under the auspices of the US National Academy of Sciences
determined that, due to the size requirements of such vital elements as
enzymes and genetic material, organisms smaller than 200 to 300 nanometers
in diameter could not be self-sustaining and therefore could not be
considered to be life.

Others contend that life can be that small, and as proof they claim to have
grown nanobacteria in the laboratory. In addition to the nanobacteria in the
Martian meteorite, spheroidal features measuring 50 to 200 nanometers have
been found in sedimentary rocks on Earth. Some claim that these spheroids
are the fossilized remains of once living nanobacteria.

The new study, conducted by Jürgen Schieber of Indiana University in
Bloomington and Howard Arnott of the University of Texas at Arlington,
suggests an alternative explanation for nanometer-sized features. The
scientists report that protein balls measuring 40 to 120 nanometers across
are produced when bacterial enzymes cause organic material to decay.

Schieber and Arnott dipped tiny pieces of bean, squid and beef into the muck
from a pond, to ensure that the samples became coated with the full spectrum
of naturally occurring decay bacteria. The samples were then buried in clay
to simulate the burial of organic matter in sedimentary rock.

Over the next two weeks, the researchers found the tissue samples
experienced explosive bacterial growth, and balls measuring 40 to 120
nanometers in size were widespread. The scientists say that these
nannoballs compare well with published examples of nanobacteria.

Because gradual decay of tissues always led to formation of nannoballs, we
surmised that the latter resulted when microbial enzymes interacted with the
buried samples, the scientists write. The scientists also exposed tissues
to various purified protein-degrading enzymes in separate experiments, and
this confirmed that such enzymes were responsible for the nannoballs.

The enzymes snip the larger tissue elements like cell walls and muscle
fibers into nanometer-sized units. Once snipped, the tissues contract into
balls due to elastic forces. This enzymatic breakdown of organic matter may
act as an aid to decomposition, the scientists suggest, reducing material to
bite-sized nuggets for bacteria to ingest.

Bacteria are osmotrophs and can only take in dissolved molecules liberated
by exoenzymes utilized outside of the cell, write the scientists. Seeing
no subunits smaller than our nannoballs, we assume that in the subsequent
degradation step, the nannoballs are broken down by further enzyme action
into soluble molecules that can be ingested by bacteria.

Nannoballs are not always consumed by bacteria, say the scientists, because
under certain conditions the tissues can become mineralized. This
mineralization preserves the nannoballs, turning them into fossils in just a
few weeks.

Although the nannoballs are not fossilized life forms, they can act as
biomarker evidence for bacterial life.

Most if not all alleged nannobacterial structures in sedimentary rocks are
probably by-products of bacterial degradation of organic matter and not
evidence for minute life forms called nannobacteria, the scientists
conclude. Nonetheless, mineralized nannoballs may indicate bacterial enzyme
action on organic tissues and serve as a visual proxy for microbial
activity.

Kathie Thomas-Keprta, an astrobiologist with Lockheed Martin at NASA's
Johnson Space Center, has studied the magnetite and carbonate mineralogy of
the martian meteorite ALH84001. She says that if microbes on Earth produce
nannoballs as they degrade certain minerals, as they do with the tissues in
this new study, then the nannoball-like texture observed on the surface of
carbonate globules in ALH84001 may be a product of such microbial etching.

However, she says it's still possible that the features in ALH84001 are the
fossilized remains of microbial life. Part of the problem with the debate
over the size constraints of life, says Thomas-Keprta, is that microbes can
shrink substantially after death.

The size of a viable organism may be vastly

[meteorite-list] collector-contact?

2003-09-17 Thread Sharkkb8



I've been emailing a Wichita/Kansas collector named Jerry Calvert, but my emails the last several days have bounced. Anyone knowhow toto contact him? Thanx

 Gregory

Fw: Re: [meteorite-list] Mars Global Surveyor Images - September 11-17, 2003

2003-09-17 Thread Mark Langenfeld


- Forwarded message follows -



 Just a thought,
 
 Are there any close up images taken in the moments
 before atmosphic entry showing a horizon view of
 Jupiter's upper atmosphere, maybe showing the
 cloudtops and the plantets curve against space?
 
 This would be very interesting.
 
 Steve Schoner/ams
 

Steve:

While such an image could probably be taken, I suspect there is  
insufficient time to complete transmission of the file before the
spacecraft disintegrates. (Recall that Galileo's high-gain antenna never
fully deployed, and the data-transfer rate through the low-gain antenna
is SLOW.)

Mark




-- 
CoreComm Webmail. 
http://home.core.com



 Just a thought,
 
 Are there any close up images taken in the moments
 before atmosphic entry showing a horizon view of
 Jupiter's upper atmosphere, maybe showing the
 cloudtops and the plantets curve against space?
 
 This would be very interesting.
 
 Steve Schoner/ams
 

Steve:

While such an image could probably be taken, I suspect there is  
insufficient time to complete transmission of the file before the
spacecraft disintegrates. (Recall that Galileo's high-gain antenna never
fully deployed, and the data-transfer rate through the low-gain antenna
is SLOW.)

Mark

Re: [meteorite-list] Serious question?

2003-09-17 Thread Howard Wu


Thanks Mark,
I guess my point was it a big planet. Mars and the moon aren't puny either. Lots of different mineralogies if you could get a closer look. 

So lets go...

Howard WuMark Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Different rock types Howard, Yosemite is granite batholith, Zion is sandstone

- Original Message - 
From: Howard Wu 
To: mark ford ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:53 AM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Serious question?

When I go into Yosemite the cliffs are grey. When I am in Zionthey are red. Go figure? 

Howard Wumark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On a similar note ... why is the Lunar surface Grey and Mars red ifthey are both resurfaced by meteorites, likewise wouldn't we expectother rocky bodies/planets to be red too especially those with a thinatmosphere? Surley the only process that would turn meteorite dust intored soil is oxygen or WATER ??Any thoughts?Mark Ford.-Original Message-From: Tom aka James Knudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 16 September 2003 05:56To: meteorite-listSubject: [meteorite-list] Serious question?Hello List, Scientists are now thinking that mars is red from meteoritedust, right? They also say tons of meteorite dust are landing on earth,right?I was wondering if the black iron stuff we get on our magnets when wedrag them through the dirt could me meteorite related?Thanks,
 TomPeregrineflier The proudest member of the IMCA 6168__Meteorite-list mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list__Meteorite-list mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


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Re: [meteorite-list] collector-contact?

2003-09-17 Thread MARK BOSTICK

Hello Gregory and list,  Nice seeing you in Denver Gregory. Send me his e-mail address and I can confirm it or not, it might be down at the moment or overfilled as I believe he is on vacation.   Mark Bostick Wichita, Kansas   - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 1:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] collector-contact?   I've been emailing a Wichita/Kansas collector named Jerry Calvert, but my emails the last several days have bounced. Anyone knowhow toto contact him? Thanx   Gregory

Re: [meteorite-list] Serious question?

2003-09-17 Thread Mark Ferguson

I think the list has taken this thread well
and answered a lot of the questions. It is interesting how terminology can be
misunderstood, such as oxidation, its just not only rust!
But,I think the most perplexing question has that
of classifications. Since the researchers are somewhat divided as of yet on some
classes as to where they should be placed or categorized, it makes for a lively
topic. And I'm sure as equipment becomes more refined and techniques to define
minerals become larger in numbers, those classes will become even more a subject
of debate. Right now we have isotopes on one side and physical mineralogy
on the other and often they clash, or so it appears to me, and one is usually
favored over the other for a definitive ruling on where a meteorite falls within
a class. The other measure used is metal content. And this puzzles me somewhat
as metals are a later forming element ( even though I've heard that some
physicists consider any element other than Hydrogen or Helium a metal). And
require some fractionation to occur before they are evolved out of solution.
That it takes a sun to form before the heavier elements are even formed. This
brings up the Aluminum isotopes used for initial heat of early planitismals.
When is it formed and how is it formed so early on? And why is only the Aluminum
isotopes ( Al26 I think) a source of internal heat mentioned. This is one of the
things I haven't read about ( having only read Dodd, Wasson, Sears and one other
that I just can't remember how his name is spelled but its like Ramdhor or
something about opaque minerals in meteorites) and maybe that's what I need to
read, so if someone on list knows of a book which covers the formation of basic
elements a little better in how and when they formed early on, I catch up on the
big picture.

Have enjoyed these topics very much and thanks to
all for contributing
Mark

- Original Message -
From:
Howard Wu

To: Mark Ferguson
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 11:47
AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Serious
question?

Thanks Mark,
I guess my point was it a big planet. Mars and the moon aren't puny
either. Lots of different mineralogies if you could get a closer look.

So lets go...

Howard WuMark Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Different rock types Howard, Yosemite is
granite batholith, Zion is sandstone

- Original Message -
From:
Howard
Wu
To: mark ford ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003
11:53 AM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Serious
question?

When I go into Yosemite the cliffs are grey. When I am in
Zionthey are red. Go figure?

Howard Wumark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On
a similar note ... why is the Lunar surface Grey and Mars red ifthey
are both resurfaced by meteorites, likewise wouldn't we expectother
rocky bodies/planets to be red too especially those with a
thinatmosphere? Surley the only process that would turn meteorite
dust intored soil is oxygen or WATER ??Any
thoughts?Mark Ford.-Original
Message-From: Tom aka James Knudson
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 16 September 2003
05:56To: meteorite-listSubject: [meteorite-list] Serious
question?Hello List, Scientists are now thinking that mars is
red from meteoritedust, right? They also say tons of meteorite dust
are landing on earth,right?I was wondering if the black iron
stuff we get on our magnets when wedrag them through the dirt could
me meteorite related?Thanks, TomPeregrineflier
The proudest member of the IMCA
6168__Meteorite-list
mailing
list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list__Meteorite-list
mailing
list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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[meteorite-list] Re: Galileo (was Mars Global Surveyor Images - September 11-17, 2003)

 
 Are there any close up images taken in the moments
 before atmosphic entry showing a horizon view of
 Jupiter's upper atmosphere, maybe showing the
 cloudtops and the plantets curve against space?
 
 This would be very interesting.

You had me confused, I didn't know what this had to do with 
Mars (per the Subject: line).  Anyway, there will be no
images taken by Galileo on its way in to Jupiter.  Images are
high bandwidth data and would require that they be stored to the
tape recorder, and then slowly played back through the low gain
antenna.  By the time any images are stored onto the tape recorder,
there won't be enough time to play them back as the spacecraft
will have entered Jupiter by then.  The other main reason there
won't be any images is the camera on Galileo was turned off
about 18 months ago and the imaging team has been disbanded.

Ron Baalke

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[meteorite-list] test




juhi test

[meteorite-list] Munich show hello





Hello list, Hi Jim,

as Im living in Munich and the Munich show is 
my home fair, I think Im predestined to give you my impressions about this 
show.

But first I have to introduce myself, because 
Im joining this list only since two weeks, amused about the exchange of insults 
between the dealers ( Bruno, Mike, Matteo et.al: My prices are even cheaper! :-) 
and really glad that there is someone else on the list, who helps me not to be 
so ashamed of my poor English. 

My name is Martin Altmann and like Jim Im from 
the group of astronomical enthusiasts. First in contact with meteorites I got as 
twelve year old boy, of course during the Munich fair 20 years ago, where I 
acquired my first specimen. Uh, I was so proud  three weeks later I found out, 
that it was only a tektite. But next year I bought my first real meteorite, a 
small Mundrabilla from german meteorite pope Walter 
Zeitschel.

Well the meteorite prices were paradisiacally 
cheap at those times, but as a pupil I couldnt afford much and had always pangs 
of conscience in spending all my pocket-money for meteorites, regarded from my 
fellows and my family as a complete idiot . Later when the prices grew and grew 
due to the upcoming internet, I was forced to start to deal a little bit with 
meteorites to keep my collection growing like many others do. Im running a 
homepage ( www.meteorite-martin.de, www.meteorite-martin.com), but because of a lack of 
time Im not able to keep it updated (for the case, that someone is interested 
in my assortment for sale or trade, I gladly will mail an actual list) and most 
stuff Im selling via ebay (ID: pardelmops). My collection is small but 
extremely conservative, I try to focuse on classical localities  meteorites 
with names, not with numbers  and from those I like most observed 
falls.

Because the space for postings is limited, I have 
to split my report from the show into 3 
parts

[meteorite-list] Munich II





Now 
to the show:
I 
havent been yet to Ensisheim, but beside that show, Munich was always the 
largest (sorry Rainer) and most important event for meteorites in 
Europe.
Where 
shall I start  if someone is missing on the list: Dont be angry, its just a 
syptom of my weak brain, raise your hand and scream: I will be there 
too!

Which 
dealers from the famous dealers list I remmeber to have seen last 
year?

Lets 
start with FectayBidaut (for not getting angry mails)  they always exhibit 
an impressive variety of the rarest types, you may imagine, planetary material 
as well as marvellous oriented stones. Some larger pieces of historic falls 
too.
From 
France too, youll find Grandseigneur Carion, cool impact breccias, Wabar 
pearls, cheap bags of Gao and Tatahouine. Each year he fills a permanent display 
case of the normal show program with museum pieces of his 
collection.
The 
Labennes will be there with their lunaites and fresh crusted unclassified desert 
goodies  last year they were looking somewhat 
disappointed.
A 
great fun and a real highlight each year is Erich Haiderers wonderfull chaotic 
stall, where you will find hidden under grab boxes with ordinnairy desert 
chondrites and the most common irons fine achondrites. Hes the only dealer with 
best-price-guarantee.
The 
Karls and Vassiliev will share a table: I remember fantastic, translucent Imilac 
slices, large slices of the classical Shergottites and Dag 400 and I hope they 
will bring this year all the superrare historic falls, which they are selling on 
ebay during the last months.
Of 
similary quality will be the assortment of Mr.Pittmann (not on the dealers 
list), last year he showed me a palm sized Mars  next to him, youll find (if 
the other dealers wont beat him up, because of his recent ebay hazards) 
Comet-Shop Afanasjev: Many different Dho-treasures: lunaites, nice inexpensive 
impact melt breccias, Chinga, Brahin  last year he had a chunk of the latter, 
which showed Widmannsttter patterns..
Good 
for some bargains is From Stone age to Space age, small assortement of african 
meteorites, last year he offered two low-tkw-falls at an incredible low 
price.
Abraxas-Stehlin from Switzerland I have to mention. 
Many historical meteorites in an astonishing fresh quality, rare desert types 
too. Here a special hint from me: 
Try to find Mrs.Kammel from Rocksonfire  there I made my best deals last 
year!
Lets 
go further through the list There were some people from St.Petersburg, but Im 
not sure if it was Pilipiuk from the list, who sold Sikhotes in all sizes and 
had also two large individuals of, I guess, at least 30kg each. Anyway, Sikhote 
in all shapes was by far the most predominant locality, at least five different 
dealers I found offering only Sikhote. Mostly in large boxes, totally 
unsearched, so that it is always a real excitement to pick out the most oriented 
specimens with flow lines and youll be always able to find such pieces 
(starting around approx. 0,5Euro/g, for the case, that you take only a few), 
which sell on ebay at high prices as so called killer oriented. And here 
another hint: Take a little lighter fluid or acetone and some handkerchiefs with 
you. All Russians like to oil their Sikhotes with a black, ropy grease, so that 
you cant see whether they still have the bluish fusion crust or whether they 
are tumbled or overcleaned (85%). Also the finest flow lines are not visible 
under this russian lard. The names of the Sikhote sellers I cant remember so 
well. Bulgak and Skorniakov comes in my mind. Because the fees for the table in 
Munich are so incredible high, many smaller meteorite specialists occupy a 
corner of the tables of friendly mineral dealer, thus you wont find them on the 
exhibitors database. Like this, I heard, Cimala Polandmet from the dealers list 
will join the show. 
Direct Line Resources was there, I didnt visit, 
because once I got a cry for help from a desperate man, who bought there a gold 
plated Gibeon weddind band, the gold was getting loose and was breaking of. 
They never answered to his emails, nor to 
mine.
Excalibur I could read on a table with only a small 
number of meteorites, but I dont know, if those were the Excaliburs from the 
list and in former times I bought some rarer US-localities at low prices, which 
had Minresco-Cisnero labels, - Im not sure, if they were there last year. List 
complete or Dean 
Bessey?

[meteorite-list] RIFLE, COLORADO

2003-09-17 Thread Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!

Hi list.Could anyone tell me about the history of the RIFLE,COLORADO
meteorite?I just purchased a small piece and was wondering about it's
origin.It is a neat sounding name for a meteorite.

 steve arnold, usa

=
Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 
I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 
Illinois Meteorites 
website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/
 
 



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[meteorite-list] Munich III

From those, who are present on the web, but not on the
dealers list, I want to mention the Egers with nice stuff and of course Siggi
Haberer and friends with their excellent documented and classified desert finds
CK4 monster, howardite, eucrite, I really dont know, why their table attracts
not more attention, hes known as one of the most friendly persons in this
business and when youre not taller than 4 feets, he will give you a sample for
free.
Another well-reputated and known dealer from Germany is
Mr.Kmmel (good opportunity to get german meteorites). Pani from Vienna I remember with a most
colourfull breccia and nice veined fresh H6-NWA. Tomelleri from Italy with a
very small but exquisite assortement.
If I dont mix it up, Mr.Spich comes in my mind (GibeonKorra
Korrabes, where is all the Gibeon gone?? Until 3-4 years before tons of Gibeon
each year, now nearly nothing left), mainly because he left the old prices on
his boxes, but first it was DEM, then the next year EURO, which means a doubled
price. Furthermore there are many mineral dealers, who have beside their mineral
specimens a few meteorites, in general the most common irons as Campo, Canyon,
Nantan, Sikhote from those dealers only the bulk dealers are remarkable, who
sell large Nantans and Campos in pieces of several kg at fine
prices.
Some special enthusiasts are also to be found. Just
drill a hole in a Sikhote and sell it as jewelery for 5Euro/g Some were selling
Nantan splinters, which they threw in acid before at incredible 3-6/Euro,
another one was to lazy to sandblast his Campos and sold ugly rusting chunks
with good success at 0,50/g.
Now, before Ill write about the Morroccains, I have to
list Mr.Hmani, because he was the single dealer from Morrocco on the show, who
was spezialized only in meteorites. He had some classified achondrites and the
nicest show pieces at his table were large etched slices of the newest iron
finds from Sahara.
There are always dozens of morroccain dealers and on
every second table there is between the other uniform stuff of shark teeth,
neolithic tools and trilobite pizzas a box with unclassified meteorites. Some
prejudices, which seems to be true: First all morroccain dealers love to haggle
and will feel it as personal insult, if you pay more than half of the price,
they started with. Second they are all cousins or brother-in-laws with each
other, a circumstance, which is very comfortable for the client. You only have
to ask the first dealer you find, whether he hasnt something more interesting
than the weathered chunks and if he dont find something adequate under his
table, he will drag you through all the halls to his cousin, who has the finest
achondrites under his table. Why they dont put the interesting meteorites on
top of the table? I dont know. But once asked theyll show you gladly their
treasures. I remember the best Bensour I saw in my life: Somewhat larger,
regmaglypted, 95% absolutely fresh crust (not glossy), fine flow lines the
dealers in web use this _expression_ in an inflationary way, but this was a real
museum quality specimen. I think it was Mr.Ismaily from Erfoud, who made me
the pleasure to take a glimpse on this beauty. (Dean, if it was this Bensour,
which you once sold on ebay shame on you, why you were to lazy to wrap and
pack it well for the transport? You destroyed it!).

Another prejudice, I read in the meteorite magazine, is
that the experts of the meteoritic scene call those cheap unclassified stones
despicabledesert crap. Hmm one of my clients found last year a nice stone at
an morrocain dealer. After classsification he got the result: Highly
unequilibrated L3, W1. From another collector I know, that last winter he picked
out from those crap a stone, which, I dont know what this means, they call now
ureilite.
Indeed such finds are a real exception, but at those
prices its for sure not wrong to buy a nice paper-weight from
space.

[meteorite-list] Munich IV





Some remark about the pricing. Its getting more and more 
difficult to make real bargains, meanwhile most participiants there know the 
prices very well. Most specialized dealers from internet will bring their prices 
with them, which you can read on their sites. Of course there is always an 
opportunity to discuss the prices. For real advantageous deals, and until now I 
found every year some fine things, you need patience and stamina, because there 
are always more than 700 exhibitors and to find out the best meteorite offers 
takes a lot time. The desert crap, by the way, costed last year 60-80Euro per 
kg. So visit the fair on at least 2days (try to order a ticket for the first 
day, the GEOFA, because its not so crowed then), let the first hall, there are 
always three, beside at the beginning, there are only few meteorites, write down 
the number of the tables, where you found something interesting, to avoid long 
running around to find it again and just enjoy.
The fair ground is easy accessible from any point of the 
city by subway.

All in all I think for meteorite freaks its still a 
great event, well worth to visit, as such an assemblage of meteorites is quite 
remarkable and many meteorite experts will be 
there.
Last time, I think, I saw Mike Farmer, his shadow is 
getting larger each year, Christian Austromet Anger was there and of course 
Dieter  GabiHeinlein were waltzing through the crowd with the double pram 
for the upcoming generation of meteorite experts, the heavenly twins. The 
Heinleins organized the absolute highlight for us meteorite freaks, a great 
exhibition (with additional lectures) of the new Bavarian fall, the 
Neuschwanstein meteorite! 

So hope to see all of you in 
Munich!
Martin
IMCA #3825

PS: Many visitors combine the Munich fair with a visit to 
the only specialized show in Germany, the International Meteorite in Gifhorn. It 
takes place the weekend before Munich and as its located in Northern Germany, 
thus its directely on your way, Jim.
Information here: http://home.t-online.de/home/Bartoschewitz.Meteorite-Lab/

Re: [meteorite-list] RIFLE, COLORADO

2003-09-17 Thread Matt Morgan

Good find. Have been looking for a piece. See here for more info
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2002/pdf/5165.pdf
Matt Morgan
Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! wrote:

Hi list.Could anyone tell me about the history of the RIFLE,COLORADO
meteorite?I just purchased a small piece and was wondering about it's
origin.It is a neat sounding name for a meteorite.
steve arnold, usa

=
Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 
I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 
Illinois Meteorites 
website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/





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P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, Colorado 80215 USA


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[meteorite-list] Rifle, Colorado

2003-09-17 Thread bernd . pauli

Matt wrote:

 Good find. Have been looking for a piece. See here for more info

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2002/pdf/5165.pdf

Steve Arnold wrote:

 Could anyone tell me about the history of the Rifle, Colorado
 meteorite? I just purchased a small piece and was wondering
 about its origin. It is a neat sounding name for a meteorite.

BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Volume 2, p. 406:

Canyon Diablo (Rifle), Colorado, U.S.A. 39° 31' N / 107° 50' W

A mass of 102.7 kg was allegedly found in 1948 near Rifle, Garfield County, and
was described as the independent coarse octahedritc, Rifle (Nininger  Nininger
1950: 127; plate 18). According to a note in the Smithsonian Institution, the finder,
Harry M. Morre of Rifle, maintained that the specimen had been found about 6 ms.
 from Rifle. However, Dr. E. P. Henderson suspected it to be just another Canyon
Diablo specimen. Maringer  Manning (1962) noted in passing the softly bent Neu-
mann bands and rhabdites and gave a photomicrograph. Bollman  Maringer (1964)
examined the graphite nodules and found indications of a particle bombardment by
cosmic neutrons. Wasson (1970a) assumed that Rifle was an independent meteorite
and gave a photograph of the large etched section in the U.S. National Museum.

Collections:

Tempe (25.8 kg), London (21.77 kg), Washington (2.7 kg),
D.M. Gillespie's private collection (51.1 kg).

Description:

An examination of the specimens in Tempe, London and Washington, shows
that the Rifle material is a typical Canyon Diablo specimen of the plains type.
There is no point in giving a full description, since the structure corresponds
in all details to what has already been described under Canyon Diablo, Stage 1.
I will, however, particularly draw attention to the large complex graphite -iron nodule
of 4 cm which is a hallmark of Canyon Diablo and has never been reported for any
other iron meteorite. The analytical data are, within experimental error, identical to
those of Canyon Diablo. It must be concluded that Rifle is another of those transported
fragments from the Meteor Crater field. However, it is not known when this occurred.
The distance between Meteor Crater and Rifle is 600 km as the crow flies, but Rifle
is situated on Highway 70, and the automobile was invented long before the 100 kg
mass was discovered.

Specimens in the U.S. National Museum in Washington:

2.7 kg full slice (no. 1705, 39 x 18 x 1 cm)
1.6 kg slice (no. 1705)

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[meteorite-list] meteorites from Phobos?

2003-09-17 Thread Jose Campos




Hi List and Ron,

Ron Balk's "Mars Global Surveyor Images September 11-17, 2003" 
email sent yesterday to meteorite-list has as allways, many interesting images 
from Mars, but I would like to call your attention to the one under "Boulders on 
Phobos (Released 16 Sept. 2003) http://www.msss.com/marsimages/moc/2003/09/16/index.html 
It shows a very interesting image taken by Mars Orbiter Camera, of a portion of 
the surface of Phobos, one of the 2 moons of Mars; in this particular image, it 
can be seen a large boulder "about 85 meter (~280 feet) in diameter" and there 
is the following comment "most of the boulders may have been ejected from the 
largest impact crater on Phobos, Stickney".
My question is: Would it be possible tofind on Earth, 
meteorites with an origin from Phobos (or the other moon Deimos)?
Or would the fragments be mainly gravitationally atracted by 
Mars?
I suppose that other factors should be considered, such as the 
angle and the velocity of the impactors on the moons?

José Campos

Re: [meteorite-list] OFF TOPIC, but interesting study.

2003-09-17 Thread Kevin Fly Hill

Tom - 
Yuor rperot sesem to be crrocet as I udnretosod yuor wolhe mgasese!
Fly Hlil

- Original Message - 
From: Tom aka James Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: meteorite-list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 9:32 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] OFF TOPIC, but interesting study.

 Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer
 in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is
 taht frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl
 mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we
 do not raed ervey lteter by itslef but the wrod as a wlohe.

 Thanks, Tom
 Peregrineflier 
 The proudest member of the IMCA 6168

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Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites from Phobos?

2003-09-17 Thread Philip R. Burns

At 12:29 AM 9/18/2003 +0100, you wrote:
My question is: Would it be possible to find on Earth, meteorites with an 
origin from Phobos (or the other moon Deimos)?
Yes, but at present we don't really have any way to determine if a specific 
meteorite originated from Phobos or Deimos as opposed to asteroids of 
similar composition (as best we can determine the composition without 
actual samples).  The Russians have been planning to launch a sample return 
mission to Phobos for some time.  Last I heard they were hopeful of a late 
2004 sendoff.

-- Philip R. Pib Burns
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   http://www.pibburns.com/
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Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites from Phobos?

 My question is: Would it be possible to find on Earth, meteorites with =
 an origin from Phobos (or the other moon Deimos)?
 Or would the fragments be mainly gravitationally atracted by Mars?
 I suppose that other factors should be considered, such as the angle and =
 the velocity of the impactors on the moons?
 

It is possible, but the real trick would be to correlate it specifically to
Phobos.  Spectroscopic analysis of Phobos indicates that its composition is similar 
to carbonaceous chondrites.   But spectra matches have also been found between
carbonaceous chondrites and several other asteroids. And Phobos is strongly 
suspected of being a captured asteroid.   So, unless you can find something
about Phobos that makes it uniquely different from the other asteroids, it will
be nearly impossible to determine if a meteorite came from Phobos or a
similar asteroid.

By the way, that image of the boulder on Phobos is a cool image, particurly
with the long shadows.

Ron Baalke

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RE: [meteorite-list] Serious question?


Oxidation -  Definition - Combining a substance with oxygen.

Oxidation is not possible without oxygen. It must be present, either
directly, or produced indirectly by a chemical process that involves a
catalyst that frees up the oxygen from some material that contains
molecules with oxygen locked up inside it (ozone,water,hydrogen
peroxide,etc..)
Oxygen is extremely reactive and forms oxides with nearly all other
elements except noble gases. Once the oxygen is liberated, it can
combine with another element, producing an oxide. All oxidation is just
another form of burning, it produces heat, very slow and small like
rusting, or vigorous as in a burning pile of leaves. 

CharlyV IMCA 4351

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philip
R. Burns
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 5:53 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Serious question?

At 09:05 PM 9/16/2003 +, you wrote:

Good point Tom. Also, Philip, I apologise for the fact that I don't
have the
link to the info. about oxidization without the element oxygen, in
whatever
compound. It's way beyond me. Are so many well educated people so set
in
their ways as to disregard the obvious?

I'm not sure what you're asking.  Is oxidation possible without oxygen? 
Sure, that's basic chemistry.  All oxidations involve a transfer of 
electrons from one thing to another thing.  That other thing receiving
the 
electrons is the oxidation agent, which is often but not always oxygen.

Are you asking if someone has proposed that a non-oxygen-based oxidation

process is responsible for the red color of Mars?  I don't know the
answer 
to that.


-- Philip R. Pib Burns
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pibburns.com/


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Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites from Phobos?

 
 Yes, but at present we don't really have any way to determine if a specific 
 meteorite originated from Phobos or Deimos as opposed to asteroids of 
 similar composition (as best we can determine the composition without 
 actual samples).  


Exactly.

The Russians have been planning to launch a sample return 
 mission to Phobos for some time.  Last I heard they were hopeful of a late 
 2004 sendoff.

There's been a lot of talk, but the Russians haven't attempted a planetary
mission since 1996, so I wouldn't be too hopeful. They actually attempted
to land two spacecraft on Phobos. They were launched in 1988, and were aptly
named Phobos 1 and Phobos 2.  Phobos 1 failed enroute to Mars.  Phobos 2
made it into Mars orbit, but contact was lost with the spacecraft shortly 
before it was to land on the moon.  

There was also a Discovery mission proposed called Alladin which was a
Phobos sample return, but it didn't make the final cut.

Ron Baalke

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RE: [meteorite-list] Serious question?

2003-09-17 Thread S. Singletary


At 08:10 PM 9/17/2003 -0400, Charles R. Viau wrote:
Oxidation - Definition -
Combining a substance with oxygen.
Strictly speaking oxidation is the loss of electrons. The electrons
need somewhere to go so something is going to gain electrons and that is
the reduction part. So to undergo oxidation, something has to be
reduced - usually it's oxygen that accepts the wayward electrons but it
doesn't always have to be so.
For example:
Ba + F2 - BaF2 is an
oxidation-reduction reaction that doesn't involve oxygen. Here F is
the oxydizing agent.
Steven

Steven Singletary
54-1224
Dept. Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences
M.I.T.
Cambridge, MA, 02139
Tel-617.253.6398
Fax-617.253.7102
Blue Skies!

RE: [meteorite-list] Serious question?









Ok, so for the symantics
of that definition, would you call that a reduction reaction not
involving oxygen, and not oxidation ..
?



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of S. Singletary
Sent: Wednesday, September 17,
2003 8:23 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list]
Serious question?



At 08:10 PM 9/17/2003 -0400, Charles R. Viau wrote:



Oxidation - Definition - Combining a
substance with oxygen.


Strictly speaking oxidation is the loss of electrons. The electrons need
somewhere to go so something is going to gain electrons and that is the
reduction part. So to undergo oxidation, something has to be reduced -
usually it's oxygen that accepts the wayward electrons but it doesn't always
have to be so.

For example:
Ba + F2
- BaF2 is an
oxidation-reduction reaction that doesn't involve oxygen. Here F is the
oxydizing agent.

Steven






Steven Singletary
54-1224
Dept. Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences
M.I.T.
Cambridge, MA, 02139
Tel-617.253.6398
Fax-617.253.7102

Blue Skies!

Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites from Phobos?

2003-09-17 Thread Tom aka James Knudson

Hello List, Ron wrote;
By the way, that image of the boulder on Phobos is a cool image, particurly
with the long shadows.
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/09/16/index.html

How would you guess that got there? Is that a true martian meteorite, a
meteorite on the martian surface?

Thanks, Tom
Peregrineflier 
The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
- Original Message -
From: Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Meteorite Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites from Phobos?


  My question is: Would it be possible to find on Earth, meteorites with =
  an origin from Phobos (or the other moon Deimos)?
  Or would the fragments be mainly gravitationally atracted by Mars?
  I suppose that other factors should be considered, such as the angle and
=
  the velocity of the impactors on the moons?
 

 It is possible, but the real trick would be to correlate it specifically
to
 Phobos.  Spectroscopic analysis of Phobos indicates that its composition
is similar
 to carbonaceous chondrites.   But spectra matches have also been found
between
 carbonaceous chondrites and several other asteroids. And Phobos is
strongly
 suspected of being a captured asteroid.   So, unless you can find
something
 about Phobos that makes it uniquely different from the other asteroids, it
will
 be nearly impossible to determine if a meteorite came from Phobos or a
 similar asteroid.

 By the way, that image of the boulder on Phobos is a cool image,
particurly
 with the long shadows.

 Ron Baalke

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Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites from Phobos?

 By the way, that image of the boulder on Phobos is a cool image, particurly
 with the long shadows.
 http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/09/16/index.html
 
 How would you guess that got there? Is that a true martian meteorite, a
 meteorite on the martian surface?
 

From the image caption:

  Several large boulders can be seen, including a very large one near 
  the center that is about 85 meters (~280 feet) in diameter. Most of 
  the boulders may have been ejected from the largest impact crater on 
  Phobos, Stickney.

Ron Baalke

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[meteorite-list] Denver Show - Part II

2003-09-17 Thread MARK BOSTICK

The best thing at the auction did not sell. Fred Hall provided a printing press used by Glenn Huss and Nininger on various publications. I think it would be nice if national meteorite displays showed more of the humanist aspect in meteorites and cant think of a better item to have showing. Fred Hall has always been a Nininger fan and with the press, but for display only was several things, including an old custom made briefcase once used by Nininger. Knowing Fred would be there with his Nininger items, I brought for him a brick from the ruins of Nininger's original museum and a postcard I made from a photo I told while there. Outside the auction a middle age man in leather jacket came up to me and quietly asked were the keg was. This man was Rob Elliott. The first Denver shows for Rob. Hope you enjoyed the show Rob and choose to come back next year. After the auction the keg was brought to Blaine Reed's room where it was finished off, something that is starting to become tradition with the auction keg. After the keg went dry and the cooler was made lighter, several of us ventured outdoors were cigars were shared. I'm not a big cigar fan, but several of the meteorite people smoke then and since it's kind of a Tucson/Denver tradition, I indulged. The Holiday Inn has a bar/restaurant and it was here my Lunar Rock Team badge was first tested. Four lines of people waited to get through the hotel lobby into the bar. By holding out our badges we were allowed to cut in front of everyone and not pay the cover charge to get in. Steve Drummond would find that by wearing his badge at the show, he saved $75.00 on a custom ring. After seeing the badge being taken by people as meaning something, I would wear the badge the rest the show. The bar was full of people and drinks were plentiful. Before I would finish one drink, one or two others would arrive in its place. One of these drinks was named the "oatmeal cookie". This drink did not agree with four of the people at the table, myself included. All should fear the oatmeal cookie. It's hard to go to the Denver or Tucson show and not pick through the piles of Sikhotes the Russians always seem to have. Usually I just pick a couple of the nicer pitted looking one, this time I decided to be different and picked through the oriented sikhotes. My time was soon rewarded with several small heat shields and a very cool double oriented meteorite. It has been said for a couple years that the Sikhote were getting harder to find. After asking about this, I was told that hunters were once finding several kilos a day is now finding "400 grams, if they are lucky." While I can not tell you if this is true or not, there were less people selling sikhotes at Tucson and Denver this year, then the year before. I avoided the Merchandise Mart on Friday because Friday is always kid day. The previous years found very few meteorites in this part of the show but the mineral displays and possible fossil bargains make it impossible to save away from. I started by first looking over the displays...get my drooling out of the way. These cabinets are always filled with would class specimens. Many organizations including the American National History Museum, colleges from around the United States and local mineral clubs, provided displays. They give ribbon awards but had yet to do so when I saw them. If I were the one giving the awards, the blue ribbon would go to a collection of later 1800 and early 1900 survey and mining equipment. These elaborate machines would often be made of hundreds of parts and look like something out of a mad scientist laboratory. No trip to the Merchandise Mart is complete without getting eaten by the Mr. Bones. Mr. Bones is a dinosaur skeleton costume wearing man that walks around and entertains the kids And adults. His big move is closing his jaws around his victim. Once again, I managed to live through it. One place I make sure to stop at the Merchandise Mart every year is Donald Hahn's booth. Donald sells books and excerpts in many science fields including meteorites. I tend to purchase a lot of meteorite books so I have known Hahn for several years now. A month before the show, he told me to stop by his booth, something I am very glad I did. To my delight, setting at Donald's booth was no other then Dr. Robert Bakker. Bakker is one of the world's most profile dinosaur paleontologists and is often a television guest. He sat in a chair drawling dinosaurs inside his books, while talking dinosaurs. His chair was next to the meteorite books so I soon found myself within conversation. I searched meteorite books while Dr. Bakker explained why Dinosaurs were warm-blooded to another customer and conversation changed to extinction. Bakker mentioned his dislike for the meteorite impact theory making the comment, "You don't find dinosaur bones at the K/T level." I could not help but mention the acid rain that would follow such an impact and therefore give away that I am

[meteorite-list] Change of Email Address

2003-09-17 Thread AVAGEN



Dear Listmaster, 

As soon as you can, please change my mailing address to 

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thank you.

Michael

RE: [meteorite-list] Serious question?









Ok, and in this reduced
reaction, Barium Fluoride would not be considered an oxide.. ? correct ?







-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Howard Wu
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:40 PM
To: Charles R. Viau;
meteorite-list
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list]
Serious question?





Two linked reactions: One is oxidized; the
other is reduced.











Howard Wu







Charles R.
Viau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Ok, so for the symantics
of that definition, would you call that a reduction reaction not
involving oxygen, and not oxidation .. ?



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of S. Singletary
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:23 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list]
Serious question?



At 08:10
 PM 9/17/2003
-0400, Charles R. Viau wrote:




Oxidation - Definition - Combining a
substance with oxygen.


Strictly speaking oxidation is the loss of electrons. The electrons need
somewhere to go so something is going to gain electrons and that is the
reduction part. So to undergo oxidation, something has to be reduced -
usually it's oxygen that accepts the wayward electrons but it doesn't always
have to be so.

For example:
Ba + F2
- BaF2 is an
oxidation-reduction reaction that doesn't involve oxygen. Here F is the
oxydizing agent.

Steven





Steven Singletary
54-1224
Dept. Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences
M.I.T.
Cambridge, MA,
 02139
Tel-617.253.6398
Fax-617.253.7102

Blue Skies!









Want to chat instantly with your
online friends?Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger

RE: [meteorite-list] Serious question?

2003-09-17 Thread Philip R. Burns

At 08:32 PM 9/17/2003 -0400, you wrote:

Ok, so for the symantics of that definition, would you call that a 
reduction reaction not involving oxygen, and not oxidation.. ?
In general, oxidation is the loss of electrons, and reduction is the gain 
of electrons.  Those terms are used in modern chemistry whether or not 
oxygen is involved.

-- Philip R. Pib Burns
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   http://www.pibburns.com/
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[meteorite-list] Munich show,thanks Martin

2003-09-17 Thread jim

Hi Martin and list
   Martin ,thanks for the useful info.I had
taken a bit of a look through the 700 or so registered
dealers and the various Moroccans certainly caught my
eye.Thanks for the tip on 'haggling' *wink*.

So it seems that you are saying it is possible for the
general public to get access to the first day,I was
under the impression it was dealers only?Must a ticket
be bought in advance?Thanks for any more insights.I am
drooling at the thought of attending my first show
with digital camera in tow.Looking so forward to
seeing all those space rocks in one place.Recently
back from the NHM,London and while it was a nice
display,most of their specimens are understandably
hidden away.Dr. Grady graciously offered to let me
'backstage' so to speak but there was a mixup with the
dates that was entirely my fault so I had to settle
for the public display.

Roll on Halloween
take care all
Jim B

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RE: [meteorite-list] Serious question?

Thanks, 
I understand the difference much better in that context. 
I love this list, where else can you get info like this!!!

CharlyV

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philip
R. Burns
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 8:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Serious question?

At 08:32 PM 9/17/2003 -0400, you wrote:

Ok, so for the symantics of that definition, would you call that a 
reduction reaction not involving oxygen, and not oxidation.. ?

In general, oxidation is the loss of electrons, and reduction is the
gain 
of electrons.  Those terms are used in modern chemistry whether or not 
oxygen is involved.

-- Philip R. Pib Burns
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pibburns.com/


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[meteorite-list] Ad - Rare Weekly Special

2003-09-17 Thread Adam Hupe

Dear List Members,

We are trying to get back on track with our weekly rare specials.  This week
we would like to introduce Dhofar 019.  Dhofar 019 from Oman, is a
Basaltic-Doleritic Shergottite from Mars Found January 24th, 2000.  This
rare Martian meteorite has several unique features not found in other
Martian Shergottites.  Some interesting features are the presence of
Orangettes similar to those found in the world's most famous meteorite
ALH84001, its long CRE age of 12Ma and its very old crystallization age of
525Ma +/- 56Ma.  It also displays alteration (weathering) from the planet
Mars.  There are no pairings and a Total Known Weight (TKW) of 1056 grams is
reported for this find.  Over 119 grams has been submitted to science and
most of the rest was sliced into 1/2mm to 1mm slices accounting for huge
cutting loses leaving very little material for collectors.This well
studied meteorite continues to provoke interest in the scientific community
but is less appreciated in the circle of collectors.  We believe a greater
interest will occur when collectors are informed on how really unique this
meteorite is.

We purchased all that was available at the Denver show and are passing on
the savings with low starting bid and buy it now prices.  We are able to do
this because of the incredible price we realized by purchasing this material
in bulk.  We are keeping the largest specimen for our own collection and
will offer the rest.  Once these specimens are gone, that is it from us
because very little of this material is in circulation due to bargain
pricing.  We expect the price to increase, as collectors become more aware
of the several unique features this material represents.  Making these
prices more attractive is the huge surface area to weight ratio becuase of
how thin these specimens were prepared.  To see these offerings click on the
link below and look at the Dhofar 019 specimens:

http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/meteoritelab/

Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck.

All the best,

Adam and Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
IMCA 2185




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[meteorite-list] Denver Show - Part I

2003-09-17 Thread MARK BOSTICK

Denver 2003 Report By Mark Bostick I usually choose to fly and then have one of my brothers meet me in Denver with a car to get around and get things home with. This year I chose just to drive in. Armed with the help of my brother, Johnny Bostick. I left Thursday evening choosing to stop along the way for the night close to the Colorado border. We made our way to a small motel in Colby, Kansas. Denver to Wichita is only a little over 500 miles, but our hotel reservations were not to Friday anyway. The bathroom had a sign telling guest not to clean kills in the bathtub. There was a location behind building 9 were kills could be cleaned. West Kansas is completely flat and a popular area for bird and deer hunters, I dont imagine it took the motel long in business before drafting the sign. Colby was also the location of a meteorite find once, a small stone of only 2.4 kg. But it was enough to make me toss around the ideal of hunting in the morning. Instead we chose to get an early start Friday morning on Denver and getting to our hotel, the Radisson Greystone Castle. The Castle is located about 10 miles from the Holiday Inn - Best Western hotels were all the meteorite events are centered. It is also one of the better hotels in the area. But I think next year I will follow the lead of my fellow meteorite sellers and stay at the Holiday Inn. It will make getting back to the hotel after a night of possible drinking easier. Just use the elevator. Usually when I go to the mineral shows I don't make too many major purchases the first day. So other then a couple dozen mineral flats, I didn't buy much and non-meteorites don't really count. That made most of Friday a hello, hi, how are you doing, nice seeing you again day. My brother and me walked around the Holiday Inn and the Best Western rooms and tents looking for things to catch my eye while pricing minerals and fossils. Mostly, I just hung around Blaine Reed's room. Everyone can usually be seen at one time or another coming in or going out of Blaine's. He is the center point of the meteorite world at shows and to make it easy on us, always has the same room every year. Besides keeping us entertained and with a beer in hand if wanted, Blaine also does a good job at keeping his tables full of stuff to amuse us and tempt our pocketbooks. I walked away with a few meteorites and meteorite books including, Nininger first book, Our Stone Pelted Planet, and a platter size slice of Northbranch. This room was also temporary home of the Garza stone with all its glory. You really have to see the stone appreciate it. To me, it kind of looked like a giant Bensour, only kicked around a couple hundred times. Surrounding the stone were pieces of the house torn apart by the meteorite impact. The Garza stone was presented by Adam and Greg Hupe who also had a collection of riker mounted meteorites and Garza Impact Kits for sale. Adam and Greg gave out "Lunar Rock Team" badges to a number of people including myself. Complete with a Marvin the Martian photo and job titles. Mine noted me as a "Meteoritics Explorer", that I was a "VIP" and that the pass was for "All Access". Complete with a cord to put around my neck. Before the show was over, most of my fellow sellers were temporary members of the Lunar Rock Team and some of us would find out this was a good thing. AL Mitterling (of Mitterling Meteorites) is usually at the Denver show, and this year was no exception. Al and me had gone in together on a large end cut of SAH97095, a few months before the show. This is a nice H5 with shock veins and one of the first classified African desert meteorites. I picked up my slices at the show and they are just stunning. Several slices show on both sides a metal vein, up to 2 inches long and wide enough to be seen on of 5 slices. Thanks again Al for the nice work. I will have some photos of these metal veined slices soon. Until then, I have several very nice slices, some with lots of shock veins on my Website right now. (Sorry, had to squeeze a little Spam in here). Late Friday was the Comets/Michael Blood auction. Michael was the auctioneer and brought with him, his usual entertaining comments and auctioneer style. In the auction were a few things that caught my eye, including a handcrafted necklace. Sterling silver with a large wrapped moldavite as a pendent, and moon stone beads. This necklace was one of several that were entered by a cute young blond in her twenties. While only two of the necklaces sold in the auction, she did sell all but one while people were waiting to check out. These necklace sells had her obviously excited and made me smile a little. For my purchase I also got a hug. Lets hope she returns to our fold, our hobby could use more of a female presence...:-) Like the previous years the Comets provided a keg of local beer, along with wine, chips, and other snacks. Anne Black was kind enough to hang around the auction room (Dave Bunks Mineral Showroom...or something close

[meteorite-list] meteorite from Phobos? Kaidun

2003-09-17 Thread Popocatept

You guys are dancing around the answer to the question.  The Vernadsky 
Institute has in their possession a meteorite that they believe came from Phobos.  
Why do they think so?  Because it has a spectral match with carbonaceous 
chondrites as does Phobos and it has at least 2 clasts that are Shergottite like 
that they theorize were blasted off Mars and were later captured by Phobos and 
incorporated into its regolith, before being blasted into space and eventually 
falling to Earth.

The meteorite is Kaidun, which I mentioned about 2 weeks ago.

Mike Fowler
Chicago

See:  http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2003/pdf/1236.pdf


My question is: Would it be possible to find on Earth, meteorites with an 
origin from Phobos (or the other moon Deimos)?

Yes, but at present we don't really have any way to determine if a specific 
meteorite originated from Phobos or Deimos as opposed to asteroids of similar 
composition (as best we can determine the composition without actual samples). 
 The Russians have been planning to launch a sample return mission to Phobos 
for some time.  Last I heard they were hopeful of a late 2004 sendoff.

-- Philip R. Pib Burns

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[meteorite-list] Ad - Rare Weekly Special DHO 019 age??

2003-09-17 Thread Popocatept

Adam,

Is there a typo here?  525 million years is not particularly old.

ALH84001 is 4.5 billion years old.

Mike Fowler
Chicago



Its very old crystallization age of 525Ma +/- 56Ma.

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Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites from Phobos?

2003-09-17 Thread almitt

Hi Jose and all,

Yes, very possible that we might have samples from both the Martian moons as well as
Mars. The spectral matches for Phobos seem to match the CV3's type meteorites like
Allende, Mexico and have been suggested in the past. However there are many other
asteroids that have this spectral characteristics (same asteroid? broken up?) and may,
there fore be the parent body, instead of the Martian Moons ( captured asteroids by
Mars). All my best!

--AL Mitterling
Mitterling Meteorites


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