Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
FWIW, It may be like fitting a square peg in a round hole but there is something similar coming to Apache: http://incubator.apache.org/opennlp/index.html Pedro
Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Pedro F. Giffuni giffu...@tutopia.com wrote: --- On Sat, 9/24/11, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: ... HunSpell code is tri-licensed under GPL/LGPL/MPL. That particular licensing scheme is rather weird: LGPL implies that it can become GPL so you could just say dual licensed LGPL/MPL, and then, once you make something pluggable, the GPL basically becomes unenforceable but let's not get into that right now ;). If I understand corectly, Apache considers MPL 1.1 to be weak copyleft and we have some limited ways (as a binary of using it in our releases. Yes we can. I am not sure what a company would think about it though: some lawyers are more strict than others. What does IBM use in Lotus Symphony? We use an library from our LanguageWare project. It is not open source, unfortunately. http://www-01.ibm.com/software/globalization/topics/languageware/ Individual dictionaries, however, can have their own license as you know. So there may be some that we cannot include in the release, but we can still point the user to. It looks like we might have a bunch of them that we can relicense to AL2. We will have to wait for the SGA to know for sure but if it does happen, it is a nice treasure that we should take advantage of. Pedro.
Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
Rob Weir ha scritto: Individual dictionaries, however, can have their own license as you know. So there may be some that we cannot include in the release, but we can still point the user to. Opera browser uses the same dictionaries of OOo and there is a dedicated wizard that allows the user to download every dictionary that is not included into the browser. Before installing the dictionary, a pop-up window is shown and the end user can read and accept the dictionary license. However, this method is not perfect, because it presumes the end user knew there is a working spell checker and how to retrieve the dictionaries. It would be greatly better that AOOo used a similar wizard during the installation of the *main application*. Of course, such wizard should allow the user to install the whole Linguistic Tool pack for his/her own native language. In fact, IMO, Thesaurus and hyphenation dictionaries are as important as the spell checker for a professional use of AOOo. Well, a missing Italian Thesaurus and hyphenation dictionary forced me not to use IBM Symphony in its early days. :( Regards, Gianluca -- Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/
Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
On 22/09/2011 Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: Hi Gianluca; Is your work related to this version? http://members.xoom.it/trasforma/ispell/ Just wondering if we have to contact them too. Whatever this is, it is widely unrelated to the dictionary currently included in OpenOffice.org 3.3. The best starting point for it is http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/project/dict-it (note that the latest release is more recent than OOo 3.3 and was supposed to be included in OOo 3.4 as expected to be released by Oracle). The current version is GPL3 and it has a few copyright holders (including Gianluca and myself), but we are sure that some of the copyright holders will never give permission to relicense their work. But we need to open, at due time, a dedicated discussion on writing aids before saying that GPL dictionaries cannot be used. Shipping an older Italian dictionary (or no Italian dictionary at all) would be a huge regression and it would definitely lead to users abandoning OpenOffice.org in scores, and to community members feeling frustrated because their work of years is removed from OpenOffice.org just for the stubbornness of one copyright holder opposing the license change. Workarounds can surely be found (like OOo offering to download GPL dictionaries upon installation or first run) and I'd urge to consider them before risking to alienate entire native-lang communities. Regards, Andrea.
Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
2011/9/24 Andrea Pescetti pesce...@openoffice.org But we need to open, at due time, a dedicated discussion on writing aids before saying that GPL dictionaries cannot be used. Shipping an older Italian dictionary (or no Italian dictionary at all) would be a huge regression and it would definitely lead to users abandoning OpenOffice.org in scores, and to community members feeling frustrated because their work of years is removed from OpenOffice.org just for the stubbornness of one copyright holder opposing the license change. Workarounds can surely be found (like OOo offering to download GPL dictionaries upon installation or first run) and I'd urge to consider them before risking to alienate entire native-lang communities. +1. To distribute a word processor without a working spell checker will be something really close to a suicide for the project. Solving this issue as soon as possible is a must, I think. Cheers Ricardo
Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Pedro F. Giffuni giffu...@tutopia.com wrote: Hi Gianluca; Is your work related to this version? http://members.xoom.it/trasforma/ispell/ Just wondering if we have to contact them too. With respect to Hunspell vs. Myspell, there is still no decision and I thinkthat will have to wait until the Oracle SGA is in. HunSpell is copyleft so we cannot include it. We could include MySpelland the free (less-restricted) dictionaries we can get and have an optionfor Hunspell, or we could make Myspell an extension. HunSpell code is tri-licensed under GPL/LGPL/MPL. If I understand corectly, Apache considers MPL 1.1 to be weak copyleft and we have some limited ways (as a binary of using it in our releases. See here for details: http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b Individual dictionaries, however, can have their own license as you know. So there may be some that we cannot include in the release, but we can still point the user to. Both would work for me, I just wanted to make sure MySpell could bepreserved before the Oracle OpenOffice site disappears. cheers, Pedro. --- On Thu, 9/22/11, Gianluca Turconi in...@letturefantastiche.com wrote: From: Gianluca Turconi in...@letturefantastiche.com Subject: Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org, giffu...@tutopia.com Date: Thursday, September 22, 2011, 10:41 AM 2011/9/22 Pedro F. Giffuni giffu...@tutopia.com The case of the italian support is indeed special, and is something I am particularly interested in. The linguistico project seems to be particularly political: they have this long discourse on how OpenSource is evil, free is good. Maybe the author of the original ispell dictionary is more condescending. I'm the original author of the Italian OOo dictionary and I wouldn't have any issue in re-licensing the original MySpell dictionary as far as it is included in a AOOo user-oriented binary release, if and when it will be released. However, the Italian dictionary has a 10-years long history of improvement under LGPL/GPL and several different co-author. The current version is simply a lot better than the original one whose copyright rights I own. So, the re-licensing would be, IMO, just a regression. Of course, a less complete dictionary is always better than nothing, from a user point of view. ;-) However, I haven't understood yet (this list is sometimes really overwhelming), what linguistic tools will be used in AOO: 1) MySpell or Hunspell? 2) for hyphenation? Regards, Gianluca -- Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/
Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
+1 I don't want to send Apache back to the spell checker in OOo 2.x, and the LO guys have made a nice job creating independent Hunspell+lang dictionaries already. What I am doing with MySpell is just making sure it doesn't disappear so that if someone needs an alternative he/she/them won't have to start from scratch. FWIW, today I made my first and final release :-P. Pedro. --- On Sat, 9/24/11, Andrea Pescetti wrote: ... On 22/09/2011 Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: Hi Gianluca; Is your work related to this version? http://members.xoom.it/trasforma/ispell/ Just wondering if we have to contact them too. Whatever this is, it is widely unrelated to the dictionary currently included in OpenOffice.org 3.3. The best starting point for it is http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/project/dict-it (note that the latest release is more recent than OOo 3.3 and was supposed to be included in OOo 3.4 as expected to be released by Oracle). The current version is GPL3 and it has a few copyright holders (including Gianluca and myself), but we are sure that some of the copyright holders will never give permission to relicense their work. But we need to open, at due time, a dedicated discussion on writing aids before saying that GPL dictionaries cannot be used. Shipping an older Italian dictionary (or no Italian dictionary at all) would be a huge regression and it would definitely lead to users abandoning OpenOffice.org in scores, and to community members feeling frustrated because their work of years is removed from OpenOffice.org just for the stubbornness of one copyright holder opposing the license change. Workarounds can surely be found (like OOo offering to download GPL dictionaries upon installation or first run) and I'd urge to consider them before risking to alienate entire native-lang communities. Regards, Andrea.
Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
--- On Sat, 9/24/11, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: ... HunSpell code is tri-licensed under GPL/LGPL/MPL. That particular licensing scheme is rather weird: LGPL implies that it can become GPL so you could just say dual licensed LGPL/MPL, and then, once you make something pluggable, the GPL basically becomes unenforceable but let's not get into that right now ;). If I understand corectly, Apache considers MPL 1.1 to be weak copyleft and we have some limited ways (as a binary of using it in our releases. Yes we can. I am not sure what a company would think about it though: some lawyers are more strict than others. What does IBM use in Lotus Symphony? Individual dictionaries, however, can have their own license as you know. So there may be some that we cannot include in the release, but we can still point the user to. It looks like we might have a bunch of them that we can relicense to AL2. We will have to wait for the SGA to know for sure but if it does happen, it is a nice treasure that we should take advantage of. Pedro.
Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
2011/9/21 Pedro F. Giffuni giffu...@tutopia.com If some of the dictionary files can be relicensed under an Apache License I would consider including them there too but I would prefer to keep any copyleft stuff out of the new project. BTW, is there any idea here about how to manage the dictionaries that were *included* into the OOo dev repository (as third party code) and the binary distribution of the product too? And about the hyphenation dictionaries? Some of these dictionaries, like the Italian one, have a very old history that goes back to 2000/2001 and a very difficult licensing history (changes of license and of copyright owners). Is there any plan for a systematic approach to their copyright owners for a license change? It isn't a duty to included such dictionaries in the native language binaries, but it's surely a user friendly behavior. Indeed, a *very appreciated* user oriented behavior. Regards, Gianluca -- Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/
Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
Ciao Gianluca! I am afraid there's nothing as a systematic approach to this yet. When the new grant is in we can see which dictionaries SUN got an assignment for and relicense them under AL2. (From some bugzilla issues I've seen it's evident they did try to get the copyrights assigned). I think most linux/BSD distributions will end up using hunspell + language specific dictionaries that are already available for LibreOffice but still it's important that we, as a community, raise awareness that GPL tends to be more a limitation than an asset when trying to make your work widely available. The case of the italian support is indeed special, and is something I am particularly interested in. The linguistico project seems to be particularly political: they have this long discourse on how OpenSource is evil, free is good. Maybe the author of the original ispell dictionary is more condescending. cheers, Pedro. --- On Thu, 9/22/11, Gianluca Turconi wrote: ... 2011/9/21 Pedro F. Giffuni If some of the dictionary files can be relicensed under an Apache License I would consider including them there too but I would prefer to keep any copyleft stuff out of the new project. BTW, is there any idea here about how to manage the dictionaries that were *included* into the OOo dev repository (as third party code) and the binary distribution of the product too? And about the hyphenation dictionaries? Some of these dictionaries, like the Italian one, have a very old history that goes back to 2000/2001 and a very difficult licensing history (changes of license and of copyright owners). Is there any plan for a systematic approach to their copyright owners for a license change? It isn't a duty to included such dictionaries in the native language binaries, but it's surely a user friendly behavior. Indeed, a *very appreciated* user oriented behavior. Regards, Gianluca -- Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/
Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
2011/9/22 Pedro F. Giffuni giffu...@tutopia.com The case of the italian support is indeed special, and is something I am particularly interested in. The linguistico project seems to be particularly political: they have this long discourse on how OpenSource is evil, free is good. Maybe the author of the original ispell dictionary is more condescending. I'm the original author of the Italian OOo dictionary and I wouldn't have any issue in re-licensing the original MySpell dictionary as far as it is included in a AOOo user-oriented binary release, if and when it will be released. However, the Italian dictionary has a 10-years long history of improvement under LGPL/GPL and several different co-author. The current version is simply a lot better than the original one whose copyright rights I own. So, the re-licensing would be, IMO, just a regression. Of course, a less complete dictionary is always better than nothing, from a user point of view. ;-) However, I haven't understood yet (this list is sometimes really overwhelming), what linguistic tools will be used in AOO: 1) MySpell or Hunspell? 2) for hyphenation? Regards, Gianluca -- Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/
Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org
Hi Gianluca; Is your work related to this version? http://members.xoom.it/trasforma/ispell/ Just wondering if we have to contact them too. With respect to Hunspell vs. Myspell, there is still no decision and I thinkthat will have to wait until the Oracle SGA is in. HunSpell is copyleft so we cannot include it. We could include MySpelland the free (less-restricted) dictionaries we can get and have an optionfor Hunspell, or we could make Myspell an extension. Both would work for me, I just wanted to make sure MySpell could bepreserved before the Oracle OpenOffice site disappears. cheers, Pedro. --- On Thu, 9/22/11, Gianluca Turconi in...@letturefantastiche.com wrote: From: Gianluca Turconi in...@letturefantastiche.com Subject: Re: ooo-myspell at apache-extras.org To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org, giffu...@tutopia.com Date: Thursday, September 22, 2011, 10:41 AM 2011/9/22 Pedro F. Giffuni giffu...@tutopia.com The case of the italian support is indeed special, and is something I am particularly interested in. The linguistico project seems to be particularly political: they have this long discourse on how OpenSource is evil, free is good. Maybe the author of the original ispell dictionary is more condescending. I'm the original author of the Italian OOo dictionary and I wouldn't have any issue in re-licensing the original MySpell dictionary as far as it is included in a AOOo user-oriented binary release, if and when it will be released. However, the Italian dictionary has a 10-years long history of improvement under LGPL/GPL and several different co-author. The current version is simply a lot better than the original one whose copyright rights I own. So, the re-licensing would be, IMO, just a regression. Of course, a less complete dictionary is always better than nothing, from a user point of view. ;-) However, I haven't understood yet (this list is sometimes really overwhelming), what linguistic tools will be used in AOO: 1) MySpell or Hunspell? 2) for hyphenation? Regards, Gianluca -- Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/
