Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Tony Firshman wrote, on 10/Jun/10 10:20 | Jun10: Dilwyn Jones wrote, on 10/Jun/10 10:17 | Jun10: These were from a vast quantity of QL parts I bought from a trader living in East London, near Ilford I think. I have forgotten his name - can anyone remember? He died I believe in the early 90s. Tony Care Electronics...Ed Bruley perhaps? No. He was working on his own. He bought a vast number of components and QLs direct from Thorn-EMI after the Sinclair collapse. He used to sell components at ZX Microfairs. I think he lived in Gants Hill, but not sure. He was the primary source for the vast majority of QLs and parts. Bill Richardson based his business on his stock I believe. Joe Atkinson? (must confess I don't know if he's still alive or not, so apologies if the suggestion causes offence). Not him. Silly isn't it. I met him many times, and when I bought the stuff, I visited him. There were large boxes full of QL parts everywhere. It is what got me launched into QL hardware and repairs. Syd Day? Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Tony Firshman wrote, on 10/Jun/10 10:20 | Jun10: Dilwyn Jones wrote, on 10/Jun/10 10:17 | Jun10: These were from a vast quantity of QL parts I bought from a trader living in East London, near Ilford I think. I have forgotten his name - can anyone remember? He died I believe in the early 90s. Tony Care Electronics...Ed Bruley perhaps? No. He was working on his own. He bought a vast number of components and QLs direct from Thorn-EMI after the Sinclair collapse. He used to sell components at ZX Microfairs. I think he lived in Gants Hill, but not sure. He was the primary source for the vast majority of QLs and parts. Bill Richardson based his business on his stock I believe. Joe Atkinson? (must confess I don't know if he's still alive or not, so apologies if the suggestion causes offence). Not him. Silly isn't it. I met him many times, and when I bought the stuff, I visited him. There were large boxes full of QL parts everywhere. It is what got me launched into QL hardware and repairs. Syd Day? Tony Ah yes, Syd Day was on Quanta committee in the early days, and always had all sorts of bits and pieces to offer. Mystery solved at last, maybe! Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Dilwyn Jones wrote, on 1/Jul/10 11:01 | Jul1: Tony Firshman wrote, on 10/Jun/10 10:20 | Jun10: Dilwyn Jones wrote, on 10/Jun/10 10:17 | Jun10: These were from a vast quantity of QL parts I bought from a trader living in East London, near Ilford I think. I have forgotten his name - can anyone remember? He died I believe in the early 90s. Tony Care Electronics...Ed Bruley perhaps? No. He was working on his own. He bought a vast number of components and QLs direct from Thorn-EMI after the Sinclair collapse. He used to sell components at ZX Microfairs. I think he lived in Gants Hill, but not sure. He was the primary source for the vast majority of QLs and parts. Bill Richardson based his business on his stock I believe. Joe Atkinson? (must confess I don't know if he's still alive or not, so apologies if the suggestion causes offence). Not him. Silly isn't it. I met him many times, and when I bought the stuff, I visited him. There were large boxes full of QL parts everywhere. It is what got me launched into QL hardware and repairs. Syd Day? Tony Ah yes, Syd Day was on Quanta committee in the early days, and always had all sorts of bits and pieces to offer. Mystery solved at last, maybe! Definitely if he lived in East London (Gants Hill?) and died in the early 90s. Funny how memory works. I woke up this morning with his name on my mind. My subconscious must have been working on it for the last three weeks. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Stephen Usher wrote: Well, I see that there are two issues with the QL legacy, one which gives a QL-like experience (i.e. SuperBASIC etc.) and emulation for running old programs. Now, for the former, I can see a niche market just waiting to be filled. Firstly, read this link: http://www.osnews.com/story/23464/Why_Johnny_Can_t_Code Then, thing back to the BBC programme, Electric Dreams, the 1980s episode (unfortunately not now available to view): http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00n59t4 The boy was amazed by the BBC micro, as was his friend. They loved to be able to make the machine do what THEY wanted it to do quickly and easily. (As opposed to the current crop of OSs which ALLOW the user to do what the application developers thought that the user SHOULD do and no more.) I agree with Stephen if we talk about (complete) novices (like my children of age 10 and 8). I will try to explain my son the basics of a computer program by using SuperBASIC with QemuLator in fullscreen mode on our family notebook. Some FOR/NEXT loops (e.g. FOR i=1 to 7 step 2), some PAPER/INK/PRINT/LINE/CIRCLE calls using some variables, even some RND and BEEPing. But I'm sure that if he gets interested in programming we will move to a recent development environment very soon (in months if not weeks). He will definitely ask me: How can I program my first iPod app? Well the Apple Mac OS X/iOS development environment is not known to me further than what my friend Ruben Bakker presented us at the Lucerne show, but I can teach him the Microsoft world telling him: Do you wanna program your first Notebook app? OK, he will say: No I wanna have an app on my iPod! Arghh ;-) So, I envisage the following in this case, a re-implementation of SuperBASIC, extendable but basically the same as the original, developed using a cross-platform graphics toolkit, such as QT (which runs on UNIX/Linux, MacOS and Windows and has a mobile version too, useful later, see below). In its basic form, you could even have it use the raw, whole display. Even I like SuperBASIC very much and it was the programming language my career started with I must say that there's no need for S*BASIC in 20xx. Even with SMSQ/E think of its limitations like stick with line numbers, very limited datatypes (only the string datatype is somehow 21st century, no 32bit integers, no usable floating point format), no modularity (you have to handle modules on your), no object orientation (OOP) at all, no IDE (ED is all we have built in, no debugger, nothing; OK, you can add QREF, other Toolkits, use QMON for S*BASIC trace/debug - arghh, etc. pp.), GUI programming only as an add-on (QPTR, EasyPTR, TurboPTR). I use Microsoft VisualBasic (VB) since version 5 (1997). Since version 4 (1996) VB superceded SuperBASIC in all aspects. OK, it took M$ - the company which did almost all (well, at least over 50%) BASIC interpreters available in the early 80s - more than 10 years to beat Jan Jones's design. Even I loved VB v6 the most of all VBs, I currently work with V10 (Visual Studio 2010). As Norman mentioned before there are free editions of powerful Microsoft packages such as Visual Studio (the Integrated Development Environment with different programming languages) or SQL Server (the very powerful relational database). Just try it out! http://www.microsoft.com/express/downloads/ In my opinion there are only two drawbacks of such modern platforms: 1. (Relatively) huge packages and therefore not that easy to get an overview. 2. BOOT up times like we love from the good old Sinclair computers (power-on until first statement written less than 10 seconds) are not possible, not even with latest CPUs, gigs of hyperfast RAM and superfast SSDs (solid state drives). Urs ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Op Mon, 28 Jun 2010 10:30:30 +0300 schreef Urs Koenig (QL) q...@bluewin.ch: Stephen Usher wrote: Well, I see that there are two issues with the QL legacy, one which gives a QL-like experience (i.e. SuperBASIC etc.) and emulation for running old programs. Now, for the former, I can see a niche market just waiting to be filled. Firstly, read this link: http://www.osnews.com/story/23464/Why_Johnny_Can_t_Code A recognisable story. It was seeing Basic programming demonstrated that sparked my interest in computers. I also read a few dozen of the many comments. Although some admit to starting of in ZX-Basic, most seem to agree that Basic is bad for the brain and makes it more difficult to get your head around higher level languages like C++. These would allow thinking more like a human than like the machine. But it seems to me that they rely a lot on libraries of routines that do the actual work and somebody has to understand and speak at the machine level to make this happen. Personally I think highly of those low-level programmers. Even I like SuperBASIC very much and it was the programming language my career started with I must say that there's no need for S*BASIC in 20xx. Even with SMSQ/E think of its limitations like stick with line numbers, very limited datatypes (only the string datatype is somehow 21st century, no 32bit integers, no usable floating point format), no modularity (you have to handle modules on your), no object orientation (OOP) at all, no IDE (ED is all we have built in, no debugger, nothing; OK, you can add QREF, other Toolkits, use QMON for S*BASIC trace/debug - arghh, etc. pp.), GUI programming only as an add-on (QPTR, EasyPTR, TurboPTR). I use Microsoft VisualBasic (VB) since version 5 (1997)... I use QD and BasicLinker, this makes line numbers irrelevant. Since Qubide, QXL, Qx0, QPC there are plenty IDE options and with all the toolkits loaded it's still a lot more compact than your VB. In my opinion there are only two drawbacks of such modern platforms: 1. (Relatively) huge packages and therefore not that easy to get an overview. 2. BOOT up times like we love from the good old Sinclair computers (power-on until first statement written less than 10 seconds) are not possible, not even with latest CPUs, gigs of hyperfast RAM and superfast SSDs (solid state drives). Will we still love our QLing if the overhead to get there, keeps piling up? Bob -- The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.chello.nl/b.spelten/ql/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Urs Koenig (QL) wrote: I agree with Stephen if we talk about (complete) novices (like my children of age 10 and 8). I will try to explain my son the basics of a computer program by using SuperBASIC with QemuLator in fullscreen mode on our family notebook. Some FOR/NEXT loops (e.g. FOR i=1 to 7 step 2), some PAPER/INK/PRINT/LINE/CIRCLE calls using some variables, even some RND and BEEPing. But I'm sure that if he gets interested in programming we will move to a recent development environment very soon (in months if not weeks). He will definitely ask me: How can I program my first iPod app? That may be so, but only when they've actually got the programming bug. So, I envisage the following in this case, a re-implementation of SuperBASIC, extendable but basically the same as the original, developed using a cross-platform graphics toolkit, such as QT (which runs on UNIX/Linux, MacOS and Windows and has a mobile version too, useful later, see below). In its basic form, you could even have it use the raw, whole display. Even I like SuperBASIC very much and it was the programming language my career started with I must say that there's no need for S*BASIC in 20xx. Even with SMSQ/E think of its limitations like stick with line numbers, very limited datatypes (only the string datatype is somehow 21st century, no 32bit integers, no usable floating point format), no modularity (you have to handle modules on your), no object orientation (OOP) at all, no IDE (ED is all we have built in, no debugger, nothing; OK, you can add QREF, other Toolkits, use QMON for S*BASIC trace/debug - arghh, etc. pp.), GUI programming only as an add-on (QPTR, EasyPTR, TurboPTR). I'd disagree greatly with a lot of these arguments for people just starting out. Line numbers, although a pain for advanced programmer, do help novices think about order. Data types confuse things and make it more complex than it needs to be. Let's face it, some real-world languages don't have them as such, e.g. Perl. In time, once the novice has grown out of the language they can move on. It's not as if we're saying to banish them. I use Microsoft VisualBasic (VB) since version 5 (1997). Since version 4 (1996) VB superceded SuperBASIC in all aspects. OK, it took M$ - the company which did almost all (well, at least over 50%) BASIC interpreters available in the early 80s - more than 10 years to beat Jan Jones's design. Even I loved VB v6 the most of all VBs, I currently work with V10 (Visual Studio 2010). As Norman mentioned before there are free editions of powerful Microsoft packages such as Visual Studio (the Integrated Development Environment with different programming languages) or SQL Server (the very powerful relational database). Just try it out! http://www.microsoft.com/express/downloads/ Eek! VB! It's almost, but not quite, totally unlike BASIC. (To paraphrase a well known quote from the Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.) There are many computer scientists who would spit at the mention of the language! :-) In my opinion there are only two drawbacks of such modern platforms: 1. (Relatively) huge packages and therefore not that easy to get an overview. Actually, the biggest drawbacks are complexity. It often takes a number of weeks learning the language and especially the overly complex library calls and hundreds of lines of code just to print Hello world! This is a major turn off for the teenage absolute novice. If you can't look at a manual and get fun things happening within 5 minutes you've lost the battle and the war. 2. BOOT up times like we love from the good old Sinclair computers (power-on until first statement written less than 10 seconds) are not possible, not even with latest CPUs, gigs of hyperfast RAM and superfast SSDs (solid state drives). Yes it is. OK, the BIOS will be the slowest part these days. After that the boot-loader will take milliseconds, the kernel boot time can be 5 seconds and if you then jump straight into a BASIC interpreter program it's again milliseconds. Remember, the majority of the time taken to start modern OSs is not the OS itself, it's the stuff above the kernel. e.g. daemons, network configuration etc. etc. Under Windows the majority of the time is loading and indexing DLLs and scanning/updating the registry (and doing huge numbers of tiny read and writes, bogging the system down in I/O waits). Steve -- --- Nostalgia isn't as good as it used to be. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
In message 4c27d9ef.4010...@lingula.org.uk, Stephen Usher st...@lingula.org.uk writes Good evening, I've actually been thinking more about this over the day... Malcolm Cadman wrote: Hi Steve, Nice link ... :-) Chris Curry and Clive Sinclair originally worked together, and then split with the Acorn/Sinclair rivalry ( friendly though ). Coming back to together with a common hardware platform - the ARM chips - would be interesting. RISCOS Open is a nice idea, too, to take forward the development. Interesting to hear that is now happening. I still use my Archimedes ... :-) Would that work for an QDOS/SMSQ/E Open ... ? Anyway, something needs to get done. Indeed Well, I see that there are two issues with the QL legacy, one which gives a QL-like experience (i.e. SuperBASIC etc.) and emulation for running old programs. Now, for the former, I can see a niche market just waiting to be filled. Firstly, read this link: http://www.osnews.com/story/23464/Why_Johnny_Can_t_Code Then, thing back to the BBC programme, Electric Dreams, the 1980s episode (unfortunately not now available to view): http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00n59t4 The boy was amazed by the BBC micro, as was his friend. They loved to be able to make the machine do what THEY wanted it to do quickly and easily. (As opposed to the current crop of OSs which ALLOW the user to do what the application developers thought that the user SHOULD do and no more.) So, I envisage the following in this case, a re-implementation of SuperBASIC, extendable but basically the same as the original, developed using a cross-platform graphics toolkit, such as QT (which runs on UNIX/Linux, MacOS and Windows and has a mobile version too, useful later, see below). In its basic form, you could even have it use raw, whole display. This could actually lead on to a second stage, the almost instant on Linux/QL hybrid. Replace the Linux init process with this SuperBASIC interpretor (plus display driver) and the system would boot within a couple of seconds, be it ARM based or Intel it doesn't matter. Now for the clever bit... when you called EXEC or EXEC_W the program being referenced would be looked at and its type determined. If it is a QDOS program then a virtual machine would be started with a QDOS compatible OS inside and the program would be run in that. If it were a native Linux binary then it would be able to be run as well, as would a SuperBASIC program. Writing the SuperBASIC application as a stand-alone application, running within other windowing systems should be the priority but with a thought to developing the kiosk-mode version for a later QL-like, (pseudo-)instant-on system. i.e. the best of all worlds and standing on the shoulders of the Linux developers, who have done all the hard hardware work and using commodity hardware. Thoughts? Steve Hi Steve, The first link, above, gave an error. The second link was OK. What you describe looks very neat. A QDOS/SMSQ/E Open would be doable, on that basis. The Commodore and Spectrum have found a way to revive there use, and appeal to a new audience. Now the RISCOS idea ... which I will now follow closely. For the QL there will be two main paths - one for nostalgia reasons of using the old system, and other approaching the leading edge in functionality ( awful word ). -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
[Beginners All Symbolic Instruction Code - 'BASIC'] Stephen said - ... I'd disagree greatly with a lot of these arguments for people just starting out. Line numbers, although a pain for advanced programmer, do help novices think about order. Data types confuse things and make it more complex than it needs to be. Let's face it, some real-world languages don't have them as such, e.g. Perl. In time, once the novice has grown out of the language they can move on. It's not as if we're saying to banish them. === I agree entirely with all Stephen's postings on this. I'm also with Johnny's Dad! Thank you for the interesting and informative URL's etc. John in Wales ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
QL-Mylink wrote, on 28/Jun/10 22:51 | Jun28:
[Beginners All Symbolic Instruction Code - 'BASIC']
Stephen said -
...
I'd disagree greatly with a lot of these arguments for people just
starting out. Line numbers, although a pain for advanced programmer, do
help novices think about order. Data types confuse things and make it
more complex than it needs to be. Let's face it, some real-world
languages don't have them as such, e.g. Perl.
In time, once the novice has grown out of the language they can move on.
It's not as if we're saying to banish them.
Other that the object code, I find Perl is very very similar in
structure to superBasic - ie inline and procedure based.
A knowledge of Basic leads straight into languages like perl.
The {} brackets and ; terminators are a pain, but languages like Python
even get rid of these.
Tony
--
QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255
t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk
Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman
TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
___
QL-Users Mailing List
http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Good evening, I've actually been thinking more about this over the day... Malcolm Cadman wrote: Hi Steve, Nice link ... :-) Chris Curry and Clive Sinclair originally worked together, and then split with the Acorn/Sinclair rivalry ( friendly though ). Coming back to together with a common hardware platform - the ARM chips - would be interesting. RISCOS Open is a nice idea, too, to take forward the development. Interesting to hear that is now happening. I still use my Archimedes ... :-) Would that work for an QDOS/SMSQ/E Open ... ? Anyway, something needs to get done. Indeed Well, I see that there are two issues with the QL legacy, one which gives a QL-like experience (i.e. SuperBASIC etc.) and emulation for running old programs. Now, for the former, I can see a niche market just waiting to be filled. Firstly, read this link: http://www.osnews.com/story/23464/Why_Johnny_Can_t_Code Then, thing back to the BBC programme, Electric Dreams, the 1980s episode (unfortunately not now available to view): http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00n59t4 The boy was amazed by the BBC micro, as was his friend. They loved to be able to make the machine do what THEY wanted it to do quickly and easily. (As opposed to the current crop of OSs which ALLOW the user to do what the application developers thought that the user SHOULD do and no more.) So, I envisage the following in this case, a re-implementation of SuperBASIC, extendable but basically the same as the original, developed using a cross-platform graphics toolkit, such as QT (which runs on UNIX/Linux, MacOS and Windows and has a mobile version too, useful later, see below). In its basic form, you could even have it use the raw, whole display. This could actually lead on to a second stage, the almost instant on Linux/QL hybrid. Replace the Linux init process with this SuperBASIC interpretor (plus display driver) and the system would boot within a couple of seconds, be it ARM based or Intel it doesn't matter. Now for the clever bit... when you called EXEC or EXEC_W the program being referenced would be looked at and its type determined. If it is a QDOS program then a virtual machine would be started with a QDOS compatible OS inside and the program would be run in that. If it were a native Linux binary then it would be able to be run as well, as would a SuperBASIC program. Writing the SuperBASIC application as a stand-alone application, running within other windowing systems should be the priority but with a thought to developing the kiosk-mode version for a later QL-like, (pseudo-)instant-on system. i.e. the best of all worlds and standing on the shoulders of the Linux developers, who have done all the hard hardware work and using commodity hardware. Thoughts? Steve -- --- Nostalgia isn't as good as it used to be. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Dilwyn said - ...OK, it'll always be handy to be able to write quick s*basic programs for my own use . === now George has said - .Rewriting for a PC or whatever is just not an option for me. I also use QPC2 for programming, both in SBASIC especially for quick one off results, and in Assembler. I have tried Visual Basic on a PC and I did not like it. Assembler on Intel chips is pretty ghastly. A new user of QPC2, say, would, I imagine, almost certainly want to use it for programming - and almost certainly not for the word processors etc available. = I entirely agree. The easy access to s*basic is one of the major trump-cards in the hands of QLers. Many of us began in a 'home-programming' type environment . Remember the thrill? Taking on board the comments of Malcolm and other contributors I continue to believe (as I wrote in QUANTA some ? years ago) that to get the best in the QL community, novices or returners must be comfortable with QL community jargon. I remember that, in that article, I gave sample facts and figures (re: jargon, albeit *necessary* jargon) from the then current QL community writings. What I suggested then was something like - the next time a 'QL Post Uncle Clive Techie Term' [QLPUCTT!] was published, it should be added by the writer to a central QL glossary [CQLG?] (if it were not already listed, of course). There would be one master glossary which would be widely known and bundled into QL legacy speak, practice and publications. Then, I for one, would have a better chance of catching up - of course I already know Jan Jones et al intimately (!) Sir, wot's a Coldfire?; Sir wot's a Hermes?; Miss, where can I find out wot's a Miracle Expansion?,Can I wear it? etc etc.. Purely rhetorical boys and girls! With universal and unambiguous best wishes, John in Wales (or 'GoBoyGo' as Tony called me!) ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Norman Dunbar wrote: Enjoy the FIFA world cup! No thanks! I'll enjoy the F1 on Sunday instead! I'll be supporting an English Team (ok, partially New Zealand!) as I support McLaren. Today Switzerland (the underdog) beat World Cup favourites Spain 1:0! At least that sound good for the Future. ;-) Urs ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
On 12/06/10 19:49, Malcolm Cadman wrote: Design and make a new 21st Century successor to the QL ... :-) Not wishing to be the bear in the ointment here, but that suggestion - while a grand one - will no longer work. In my opinion, back in the 80s fine, there were lots and lots of computer companies all vying to be the best. These days, since IBM created the PC then the PC is really all that there is. Even the notebooks/netbooks are mini-PCs with nothing more than a different processor. The days of creating a new fabulous and different computer are long gone - similar to the Betamax Video recorder - you could create a much better one nowadays, but nobody would buy it because things have moved on - for better or worse. We are basically stuck with the PC. All we can do is to continue to help Marcel keep QPC on the market, selling well and frequently enough to keep him updating it. Cheers, Norman. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Am 13.06.2010 um 13:59 schrieb Norman Dunbar: On 12/06/10 19:49, Malcolm Cadman wrote: Design and make a new 21st Century successor to the QL ... :-) Not wishing to be the bear in the ointment here, but that suggestion - while a grand one - will no longer work. In my opinion, back in the 80s fine, there were lots and lots of computer companies all vying to be the best. These days, since IBM created the PC then the PC is really all that there is. Even the notebooks/netbooks are mini-PCs with nothing more than a different processor. The days of creating a new fabulous and different computer are long gone - similar to the Betamax Video recorder - you could create a much better one nowadays, but nobody would buy it because things have moved on - for better or worse. We are basically stuck with the PC. All we can do is to continue to help Marcel keep QPC on the market, selling well and frequently enough to keep him updating it. Cheers, Norman. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm I agree with you. Even Apple with all its resources and money sells Macs with Intel-CPUs and (more or less) standard-hardware. What we as user can do is to buy soft- and hardware from the remaining resellers, give feedback to the software-authors (even its only a short I use and like your software!) and simply use the QL/Q- Dos in one or other form. I think as long someone uses the QL (no matter if its the original black box, a Q40/60 or with QPCII) the QL isn´t dead. I just ordered software from Jochen and bought various items from Rich in the last months (for example my Q40, which I like a lot). I wrote a large QL-article for the Amiga Future print-magazine and will do it again for a German/Austrian Retro-magazine (Lotek64) in August. I also started to coding on the QL again and will do some software for the QL/Qxx in the future (at least I hope so;-)) My personal wish is, that new QL-hardware will be produced. Urs suggested hardware would be nice for transferring software between the QL and PCs/Macs. I also still hope, that the Q60 will be produced again (although I know its difficult), at least a last production-run. On the longer run a replacement for the Q60 would be fine. I don´t know if a redesign of the Q60 with more modern parts is possible (with the remaining resources). More possibilities (please not, that I am aware, that this is wishful thinking): A original QL with some addons (and maybe with additional Sinclair spectrum-compatibility) in a FPGA (like the Minimig in the Amiga-scene) for the Retro-Fans or a Coldfire-based board (there are ready to use evaluation-boards) with SMSQE or QDOS as solution for power-users. I know that the Coldfire-CPU isn´t 100% compatible with the 68k, so we would need some adaptation on the software-side. Anton ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
On 13 Jun 2010, at 13:43, Anton Preinsack wrote: More possibilities (please not, that I am aware, that this is wishful thinking): A original QL with some addons (and maybe with additional Sinclair spectrum-compatibility) in a FPGA (like the Minimig in the Amiga-scene) for the Retro-Fans or a Coldfire-based board (there are ready to use evaluation-boards) with SMSQE or QDOS as solution for power-users. I know that the Coldfire-CPU isn´t 100% compatible with the 68k, so we would need some adaptation on the software-side. Already GWASS can assemble Coldfire instructions. George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Am 13.06.2010 um 15:01 schrieb gdgqler: On 13 Jun 2010, at 13:43, Anton Preinsack wrote: More possibilities (please not, that I am aware, that this is wishful thinking): A original QL with some addons (and maybe with additional Sinclair spectrum-compatibility) in a FPGA (like the Minimig in the Amiga-scene) for the Retro-Fans or a Coldfire- based board (there are ready to use evaluation-boards) with SMSQE or QDOS as solution for power-users. I know that the Coldfire- CPU isn´t 100% compatible with the 68k, so we would need some adaptation on the software-side. Already GWASS can assemble Coldfire instructions. George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Interesting! ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
-- From: Rich Mellor r...@rwapservices.co.uk Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 2:26 PM To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future Hmm - I have 523 on my list in the UK (all with email addresses) Rich has told us he has a list of 523 UK QL-ers and we also know how many UK Quanta members and how many UK QL Today readers there are. A little bit of arithmetic suggests the UK community is very different from how we envisage it. Suppose we took Rich's list and removed from it all the Quanta members. We then went through it a second time and removed all the remaining QL Today readers. Finally we go through it a third time removing all the remaining subscribers to this list. After these three operations we have removed far less than half of the names on this list. In other words if we divided the UK QL community into two groups that we could call the organised group and the non-organised group, the non-organised group would be the larger of the two. It sounds almost unbelievable but the majority of UK QL-ers have no need for Quanta, QL Today or this list. In the organised group we have very little knowledge of the people in the non-organised group and little desire to learn about them. There is a large part of the QL universe that is ripe for exploration. Now three questions to think about: 1: Suppose someone from the non-organised group visited two QL websites - Dilwyn's and Quanta's. To which of the two websites would he be the more likely to return and why? 2: A couple of years ago two UK traders ceased active trading after making a loss for several years. A third trader remained and is running a successful QL/retro business. Over a 2 year period he also provided Quanta with a quarter of its income by trading on their behalf. How has he achieved this? 3: Quanta's recent survey was publicised by Quanta itself; on this list; in the news columns of QL Today; and to all people on Rich's list. Which of these four would provide the largest potential number of respondents? Maybe we in the organised group need a Galileo moment, Best Wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
In message 4c14c80a.3090...@dunbar-it.co.uk, Norman Dunbar nor...@dunbar-it.co.uk writes On 12/06/10 19:49, Malcolm Cadman wrote: Design and make a new 21st Century successor to the QL ... :-) Not wishing to be the bear in the ointment here, but that suggestion - while a grand one - will no longer work. In my opinion, back in the 80s fine, there were lots and lots of computer companies all vying to be the best. These days, since IBM created the PC then the PC is really all that there is. Even the notebooks/netbooks are mini-PCs with nothing more than a different processor. The days of creating a new fabulous and different computer are long gone - similar to the Betamax Video recorder - you could create a much better one nowadays, but nobody would buy it because things have moved on - for better or worse. We are basically stuck with the PC. All we can do is to continue to help Marcel keep QPC on the market, selling well and frequently enough to keep him updating it. Cheers, Norman. Hi Norman, Thanks for the thoughtful input ... however, my statement was a bit tongue in cheek ... :-) That is there is not much chance of anything grandiose for the QL lineage. At the London Group, today, we had a fun discussion about who would ever remember DOS / MSDOS / PC's or whatever . in a 100 years time, the 22nd Century . The newly introduced iPad, and what follows, will have a dramatic impact on what type of devices we use in the future. So, your statements may appear somewhat foolhardy to future onlookers ... :-) -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
On Wednesday 09 June 2010 07:29, John Sadler wrote: The QL Community is steadily reducing in size. So what can we do to stop the QL disappearing into oblivion? Other old computers have survived by ensuring that emulators programs exist in the public domain. The QL does have public domain emulators but they are a haste to use. The problem is in either they do not work with all programs or else by the time the person has learnt to convert the program so that i will run they have already decided the QL is not for them. There is one emulator which overcomes this problem and that is QPC2. However when you have bought it you find you need QPrint to use a printer! Then you find some of the best programs are commercal thats more expense. George Gwilt suggested at the Quanta AGM that Quanta should buy the rights to QPC2 Qprint with its surplus cash so that they could be part of the public domain and people could appreciate the QL for nothing. Unfortunately these seeds of wisdom fell on stoney ground. SO are you content to see the QL disappear into oblivion OR are you going to do something about it? I am delighted that ithe above generated such interest. Also it is gratifying to hear that QLers are rejoing the field. However if the QL is to suvive we have got to get new devotes. How do we do that? ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
In message 201006100754.18894.j...@supanet.com, John Sadler j...@supanet.com writes On Wednesday 09 June 2010 07:29, John Sadler wrote: The QL Community is steadily reducing in size. So what can we do to stop the QL disappearing into oblivion? Other old computers have survived by ensuring that emulators programs exist in the public domain. The QL does have public domain emulators but they are a haste to use. The problem is in either they do not work with all programs or else by the time the person has learnt to convert the program so that i will run they have already decided the QL is not for them. There is one emulator which overcomes this problem and that is QPC2. However when you have bought it you find you need QPrint to use a printer! Then you find some of the best programs are commercal thats more expense. George Gwilt suggested at the Quanta AGM that Quanta should buy the rights to QPC2 Qprint with its surplus cash so that they could be part of the public domain and people could appreciate the QL for nothing. Unfortunately these seeds of wisdom fell on stoney ground. SO are you content to see the QL disappear into oblivion OR are you going to do something about it? I am delighted that ithe above generated such interest. Also it is gratifying to hear that QLers are rejoing the field. However if the QL is to suvive we have got to get new devotes. How do we do that? Design and make a new 21st Century successor to the QL ... :-) -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
-- From: Rich Mellor r...@rwapservices.co.uk Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 8:29 PM To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future However, I have a mailing list of over 1000 QL users and it is rare that any of them ask to be removed from the list (please let me know if you would like to be added). Just out of interest, would it be possible to estimate from your list how many UK QL-ers there still are? Or would it be too much work? We know Quanta has 154 UK members and we could estimate how many UK QL-ers are not Quanta members, Best wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
On 11/06/2010 13:12, Geoff Wicks wrote: -- From: Rich Mellor r...@rwapservices.co.uk Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 8:29 PM To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future However, I have a mailing list of over 1000 QL users and it is rare that any of them ask to be removed from the list (please let me know if you would like to be added). Just out of interest, would it be possible to estimate from your list how many UK QL-ers there still are? Or would it be too much work? We know Quanta has 154 UK members and we could estimate how many UK QL-ers are not Quanta members, Best wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Hmm - I have 523 on my list in the UK (all with email addresses) -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
A case in point is the QL Wiki at http://www.rwapadventures.com/ql_wiki Great innovation to the QL and retro community. Good job Rich. Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, the main contributors to the QL Wiki remain myself and Dilwyn Jones. When I ask for comments / feedback or assistance, the only response appears to be You have not included any information about [x] I registered for the QL Wiki yesterday and did the first small contributions to it. My main objectives are also in preserving the QL but my priorities are in my QL related video/movie projects, the photo gallery and seek for and documentation of long lost items (software, hardware, paperware, stories). Currently there are just a few documents, 41 videos and 1000+pictures online. My main backlog is the documents which many of them were already scanned (single pages) but need to be glued into single PDFs. The site of the so called Sinclair QL Preservation Project (SQPP) can be accessed through my website or directly using this short URL: http://tinyurl.com/sqpp25 Then there are some QL soft- and hardware projects in the thinking. Some are somehow vague but some are quite real. To name just one for now, the so called QCF card for the QL ROM port as discussed at the Austrian QL meeting last weekend is in a stage of use case/requirements/business case now. Think of it as a tiny card (similar to ROMdisq) which hosts a very basic LINUX based computer (the host, the heavy part of the firmware/driver), takes a standard FAT(32) formatted CF card and have direct r/w access to the FAT filesystem (DOS1_ to DOS8_ similar to QPC2) plus full QXL.WIN (named QXL1_ to QXL8_ to prevent clashes for users with real harddisks attached to the QL) support. I'm not fit in electronics (anymore), so all I can do is to make a business blueprint and later help with project management. Enjoy the FIFA world cup! Best regards, Urs (offline now as first game is on) http://www.qlvsjaguar.homepage.bluewin.ch http://www.youtube.com/user/QLvsJaguar http://cid-c250d8748980ce5a.photos.live.com/albums.aspx ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
-- From: Rich Mellor r...@rwapservices.co.uk Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 2:26 PM To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future On 11/06/2010 13:12, Geoff Wicks wrote: -- From: Rich Mellor r...@rwapservices.co.uk Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 8:29 PM To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future However, I have a mailing list of over 1000 QL users and it is rare that any of them ask to be removed from the list (please let me know if you would like to be added). Just out of interest, would it be possible to estimate from your list how many UK QL-ers there still are? Or would it be too much work? We know Quanta has 154 UK members and we could estimate how many UK QL-ers are not Quanta members, Hmm - I have 523 on my list in the UK (all with email addresses) Many thanks. A very surprising figure much different from what I was expecting. We can now say that there are probably 350 - 400 UK QL-ers that are not members of Quanta. The moral of this is that we should not make too many judgments about the health of the UK QL community from the state of Quanta (or the number of QL Today readers or subscribers to this list), Best wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Evening Urs, Currently there are just a few documents, 41 videos and 1000+pictures online. My main backlog is the documents which many of them were already scanned (single pages) but need to be glued into single PDFs. Are they scanned as image files (Ok, possibly a stupid question!) because I create a few PDF files from a DocBook source, and I suspect i could easily (oops!) write a small shell script to read a list of files in a directory and create an XML DocBook page embedding each file and then pass the whole lot through FOP to create a PDF file. Let me know if this is helpful and I'll see what i can do. Enjoy the FIFA world cup! No thanks! I'll enjoy the F1 on Sunday instead! I'lll be supporting an English Team (ok, partially New Zealand!) as I support McLaren. Cheers, Norman. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Rich Mellor wrote, on 10/Jun/10 06:07 | Jun10: snip As for Marcel's and Jochen's comments about posting information on wikis being regarded as self-advertising - well, there are some views on this: 1. Surely the software / hardware designers are best positioned to provide the background of the hardware and software? 2. The internet may be aimed at providing information, but 99% of sites (including wikis) are used for promotion of business - after all, not many people can afford to set up and maintain a website longterm without it providing some source of revenue. If someone is interested in reading about QPC2 for example, why leave it open ended as to where they can now obtain a copy from ? That is like telling someone about a wonderful product which will change their lives immensely, but if they want to get hold of it, sorry - just look on google and see if anyone else has listed it for sale... 3. What is wrong with self-promotion? Surely anyone who writes a CV out and puts it online on a job site is doing just that thing and nobody would argue against doing that. You will find that most QL hardware and software is already documented, by Rich I think. I see no harm in my going in and correcting what is there, and there was quite a bit of that! Mind you I am now not actively trading, although I keep having to do things behind the scene. For instance Rich has some secondhand Minervae and I am repairing them (well I will when he sends them to me (8-)# ). Also the chat about Minerva manuals pushed me into finishing the OCR job I started a long long time ago (thanks Dilwyn). I must say Rich is doing a great job selling my shed-rescued stock. Derek Stewart completely filled his car with it! As I found out from Urs, I had some historic old pcbs in the collection. Unfortunately I believe most pcbs have now been scrapped. They were a great source of spare parts, which could be heat-gun desoldered. I suspect a lot were actually working, but I never got around to fully checking. These were from a vast quantity of QL parts I bought from a trader living in East London, near Ilford I think. I have forgotten his name - can anyone remember? He died I believe in the early 90s. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
I must say Rich is doing a great job selling my shed-rescued stock. Derek Stewart completely filled his car with it! As I found out from Urs, I had some historic old pcbs in the collection. Unfortunately I believe most pcbs have now been scrapped. They were a great source of spare parts, which could be heat-gun desoldered. I suspect a lot were actually working, but I never got around to fully checking. These were from a vast quantity of QL parts I bought from a trader living in East London, near Ilford I think. I have forgotten his name - can anyone remember? He died I believe in the early 90s. Tony Care Electronics...Ed Bruley perhaps? Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Dilwyn Jones wrote, on 10/Jun/10 10:06 | Jun10: These were from a vast quantity of QL parts I bought from a trader living in East London, near Ilford I think. I have forgotten his name - can anyone remember? He died I believe in the early 90s. Tony Care Electronics...Ed Bruley perhaps? No. He was working on his own. He bought a vast number of components and QLs direct from Thorn-EMI after the Sinclair collapse. He used to sell components at ZX Microfairs. I think he lived in Gants Hill, but not sure. He was the primary source for the vast majority of QLs and parts. Bill Richardson based his business on his stock I believe. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
This mailing list is probably the most frequently populated part of QL-Dom - and even here goes deathly quiet at times. Now look what you've done, it's more active today! My Articles in QL Toady are a mystery to me. Not that I don't know what I'm writing (well, most of the time I do!) but the lack of feedback from almost everyone in the entire world - I sometimes feel that I'm writing for three people - Me, George and a chap called Hugh Rooms who called me to task some time back and made a contribution to the Assembly series. Every time I ask for feedback, the silence is deafening. Either nobody is reading the articles, or (more likely) you are getting it so right that nobody needs to comment (apart from the odd letter from George of course!) I read the articles (and fail to understand some of them of course) :-( So what's that so far...5 readers? Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
These were from a vast quantity of QL parts I bought from a trader living in East London, near Ilford I think. I have forgotten his name - can anyone remember? He died I believe in the early 90s. Tony Care Electronics...Ed Bruley perhaps? No. He was working on his own. He bought a vast number of components and QLs direct from Thorn-EMI after the Sinclair collapse. He used to sell components at ZX Microfairs. I think he lived in Gants Hill, but not sure. He was the primary source for the vast majority of QLs and parts. Bill Richardson based his business on his stock I believe. Joe Atkinson? (must confess I don't know if he's still alive or not, so apologies if the suggestion causes offence). Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Dilwyn Jones wrote, on 10/Jun/10 10:17 | Jun10: These were from a vast quantity of QL parts I bought from a trader living in East London, near Ilford I think. I have forgotten his name - can anyone remember? He died I believe in the early 90s. Tony Care Electronics...Ed Bruley perhaps? No. He was working on his own. He bought a vast number of components and QLs direct from Thorn-EMI after the Sinclair collapse. He used to sell components at ZX Microfairs. I think he lived in Gants Hill, but not sure. He was the primary source for the vast majority of QLs and parts. Bill Richardson based his business on his stock I believe. Joe Atkinson? (must confess I don't know if he's still alive or not, so apologies if the suggestion causes offence). Not him. Silly isn't it. I met him many times, and when I bought the stuff, I visited him. There were large boxes full of QL parts everywhere. It is what got me launched into QL hardware and repairs. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
gdgqler wrote: Marcel's and Jochen's comments made me think twice about considering adding information about my TurboPTR on Rich's site. Oh god, I wasn't trying to discourage anybody from contributing to the wiki! TurboPTR not being commercial it's a different situation anyway, in my opinion at least. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Marcel Kilgus wrote: gdgqler wrote: Marcel's and Jochen's comments made me think twice about considering adding information about my TurboPTR on Rich's site. Oh god, I wasn't trying to discourage anybody from contributing to the wiki! TurboPTR not being commercial it's a different situation anyway, in my opinion at least. Marcel Absolutely. Getting swamped with commercial adverts would be one thing (and QL traders are not likely to do that anyway, it might be different in the big world outside), but putting information about handy free utiltities on there is hardly going to upset people. I would tend to think the opposite in fact that for programs like TurboPtr, which may be new to some people, the more free information out there the better. I occasionally send news of my free programs to this list, but I wouldn't send anything commercial, of course, unless it was to answer a specific query. I don't think George has anything to worry about at all. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Jerry Davis wrote, on 10/Jun/10 12:02 | Jun10: I thought I'd stop lurking and post I only joined this group a few weeks ago out of pure curiosity. Many, many moons ago I set up the London sub-group with the help of Frank Merrison. University, the discovery that there was life outside London, and meeting Rebecca who eventually became my wife caused me to stray away from the QL scene. I agree with Rich, there is an interest in retro computers. I am now an Engineering and Electronics teacher at GCSE and A Level. Electronics education has recently been revolutionised with the introduction of cheap PICs that can be programmed via a built in serial port. PCs are far too complicated for the average student to understand, however older computers such as the Sinclair computers are easier to understand and modify. While they are not QL specific projects, I have had GCSE students design keyboard interfaces and sound cards. I've just looked at the suggested projects for A Level next year, and one is to design an SD card reader - it doesn't specify what disc format the project should use.. In the not too distant future we will be looking at A Level students designing computers as complex as the original QL! I think older computers such as the QL that are less complicated, could be used to great potential in electronics education to get across the ideas of Processor, Math-Coprocessor, Display Driver, Keyboard interface, disk interface etc etc. I dusted off my old QLs, and some students were amazed to see that you could network computers using just iPod headphone leads. Nope - mono only (8-)# Rich has about 500 of them from my shed. Good to see you on the list. When Jerry emailed me a while back, he said Do you remember me. Silly question. How could I forget. I don't know if the London group was in the Welsh Congregational Chapel then. However the wheel has come full circle as I rehearse every Thursday there with the Borough Chamber Choir. It might be 'newly refurbished' but very much on a budget. They have skimped on much, including the floor, which is rippling due to damp. The gents still has no interior walls. Still the hall is very much bigger now as the stage has been removed they found a lake underneath! Where do you keep the hardware now Malcolm? They used to be above the stage. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Tony, Was it Dennis Briggs aka Adman Services ? Bruce Thursday, June 10, 2010, 10:13:21 AM, you wrote: TF Dilwyn Jones wrote, on 10/Jun/10 10:06 | Jun10: These were from a vast quantity of QL parts I bought from a trader living in East London, near Ilford I think. I have forgotten his name - can anyone remember? He died I believe in the early 90s. Tony Care Electronics...Ed Bruley perhaps? TF No. He was working on his own. He bought a vast number of components TF and QLs direct from Thorn-EMI after the Sinclair collapse. TF He used to sell components at ZX Microfairs. TF I think he lived in Gants Hill, but not sure. TF He was the primary source for the vast majority of QLs and parts. Bill TF Richardson based his business on his stock I believe. TF Tony -- Best regards, Brucemailto:bruce.nichol...@ntlworld.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Bruce N wrote, on 10/Jun/10 13:21 | Jun10: Tony, Was it Dennis Briggs aka Adman Services ? No - he lived in East London, maybe Gants Hill. He was the person that kicked the component and rebuilt QL trading into life when he sold his stock. I don't think he actively traded them. He lived really close to you (8-)# This was in the late 80s, and he died sometime in the 90s. I had better wait 20 years and I will remember (8-)# He must be mentioned in the QL BBS archives somewhere. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Dear George, Marcel's and Jochen's comments made me think twice about considering adding information about my TurboPTR on Rich's site. I was referring to self-advertising for commercial products. I regard any encyclopedia (online or offline) as something which should be as unbiased as possible, and writing something about your own commercial product could not be regarded as this ... that's how I feel about it. Please do not regard this as criticism to anybody who does so (Rich, for example, is doing a great job and I cannot imagine how much time it takes him), but I would rather NOT do it for the products I sell. It would, however, not worry me, for non-commercial products, as you do not (really) want to compete, so I would not regard this as advertising. Cheers Jochen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Hi Rich, Believe it or not, there is still a burgeoning market out there for retro computers - I rely on them for my main source of income at the moment (since I was made redundant in December) and have successfully brought several new products to market (or made old ones available again), and all this helps. I understand this, although I did not sell any old hardware in the past few years, but that was never my aim anyway. When QPC came out and the QL hardware emulator ended, there was no point in me elling hardware. Over the past few years, we have sourced and brought to market: Yes, you are doing a very good job. That is why I forward interested people to you, by the way ;-) 2. The internet may be aimed at providing information, but 99% of sites (including wikis) are used for promotion of business - after all, not many people can afford to set up and maintain a website longterm without it providing some source of revenue. If someone is interested in reading about QPC2 for example, why leave it open ended as to where they can now obtain a copy from ? That is like telling someone about a wonderful product which will change their lives immensely, but if they want to get hold of it, sorry - just look on google and see if anyone else has listed it for sale... Please see other mail. Advertising is advertising, and a lot of internet info IS advertising. A Wikipedia (which I regard as some kind of Lexikon where you look up things and they are explained, but in an unbiased, non-advertising way) is something different in my opinion. THAT is a place where I do not expect (and do not want!!) advertising. It is OK to use a website, where it is clear one wants to sell something, for advertising, and advertise by being found through google etc. ... but that's something different. Even a link or something like (taken from J-M-S webseite to SHOW it could be advertising) is something different. Cheers Jochen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
In message 4c10c9a5.40...@firshman.co.uk, Tony Firshman t...@firshman.co.uk writes Jerry Davis wrote, on 10/Jun/10 12:02 | Jun10: I thought I'd stop lurking and post I only joined this group a few weeks ago out of pure curiosity. Many, many moons ago I set up the London sub-group with the help of Frank Merrison. University, the discovery that there was life outside London, and meeting Rebecca who eventually became my wife caused me to stray away from the QL scene. I agree with Rich, there is an interest in retro computers. I am now an Engineering and Electronics teacher at GCSE and A Level. Electronics education has recently been revolutionised with the introduction of cheap PICs that can be programmed via a built in serial port. PCs are far too complicated for the average student to understand, however older computers such as the Sinclair computers are easier to understand and modify. While they are not QL specific projects, I have had GCSE students design keyboard interfaces and sound cards. I've just looked at the suggested projects for A Level next year, and one is to design an SD card reader - it doesn't specify what disc format the project should use.. In the not too distant future we will be looking at A Level students designing computers as complex as the original QL! I think older computers such as the QL that are less complicated, could be used to great potential in electronics education to get across the ideas of Processor, Math-Coprocessor, Display Driver, Keyboard interface, disk interface etc etc. I dusted off my old QLs, and some students were amazed to see that you could network computers using just iPod headphone leads. Nope - mono only (8-)# Rich has about 500 of them from my shed. Good to see you on the list. When Jerry emailed me a while back, he said Do you remember me. Silly question. How could I forget. I don't know if the London group was in the Welsh Congregational Chapel then. However the wheel has come full circle as I rehearse every Thursday there with the Borough Chamber Choir. It might be 'newly refurbished' but very much on a budget. They have skimped on much, including the floor, which is rippling due to damp. The gents still has no interior walls. Still the hall is very much bigger now as the stage has been removed they found a lake underneath! Where do you keep the hardware now Malcolm? They used to be above the stage. Tony Hi Tony, There is a walk in storage cupboard now, where we keep the hardware for the London QL Quanta Group. Frank Merrison was always a loyal member of the Group. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
John Sadler wrote, on 9/Jun/10 08:29 | Jun9: The QL Community is steadily reducing in size. So what can we do to stop the QL disappearing into oblivion? Other old computers have survived by ensuring that emulators programs exist in the public domain. The QL does have public domain emulators but they are a haste to use. The problem is in either they do not work with all programs or else by the time the person has learnt to convert the program so that i will run they have already decided the QL is not for them. There is one emulator which overcomes this problem and that is QPC2. However when you have bought it you find you need QPrint to use a printer! Then you find some of the best programs are commercal thats more expense. George Gwilt suggested at the Quanta AGM that Quanta should buy the rights to QPC2 Qprint with its surplus cash so that they could be part of the public domain and people could appreciate the QL for nothing. Unfortunately these seeds of wisdom fell on stoney ground. SO are you content to see the QL disappear into oblivion OR are you going to do something about it? Surely there is not enough spare cash to buy QPC2 and Qprint, even if JMS (and Marcel) wanted to sell. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
On 09/06/2010 08:29, John Sadler wrote: The QL Community is steadily reducing in size. So what can we do to stop the QL disappearing into oblivion? Other old computers have survived by ensuring that emulators programs exist in the public domain. The QL does have public domain emulators but they are a haste to use. The problem is in either they do not work with all programs or else by the time the person has learnt to convert the program so that i will run they have already decided the QL is not for them. There is one emulator which overcomes this problem and that is QPC2. However when you have bought it you find you need QPrint to use a printer! Then you find some of the best programs are commercal thats more expense. George Gwilt suggested at the Quanta AGM that Quanta should buy the rights to QPC2 Qprint with its surplus cash so that they could be part of the public domain and people could appreciate the QL for nothing. Unfortunately these seeds of wisdom fell on stoney ground. SO are you content to see the QL disappear into oblivion OR are you going to do something about it? ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm It does depend to some extent on resources, but also enthusiasm. From the last Quanta survey, it appeared that most of their members do not use emulators, but rely on original hardware. It will be interesting to see what sort of response levels they get to the latest survey and whether this has changed. I would like to see Quanta work together with its members and the rest of the QL community to decide on how best to promote the QL and secure its continued future. I have made a few suggestions in the past, but unfortunately, the Quanta committee did not appear to grasp the concept behind the ideas, or how they can help to promote the QL. But then, it is not just Quanta who lack motivation to do anything about it... A case in point is the QL Wiki at http://www.rwapadventures.com/ql_wiki There are several ideas behind this site, which work together: a) To promote the QL, by increasing the amount of information available on the internet about its hardware, and software b) To preserve copies of QL documentation and help to make them more widely available. c) To preserve copies of commercial QL software, so that if users buy a second hand piece of software, to find that the microdrives will no longer load, or if they have moved onto emulators, they can readily purchase a working copy (on production of proof that they own the original). Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, the main contributors to the QL Wiki remain myself and Dilwyn Jones. When I ask for comments / feedback or assistance, the only response appears to be You have not included any information about [x] The QL Wiki is not designed to remain my site - it is for the whole of the QL community, yet why don't others pull their fingers out and contribute information to it / help to preserve images of software? From my own point of view, I am bound to concentrate on entering information which helps me to ensure the commercial viability of RWAP Software. This works and various people have come to my site as a result of the QL Wiki. However, none of the other traders or even Quanta have entered any information about their own products (I say traders, but we all know how many there are left in the QL community!). So, I have to agree with John's comments - are you content to see the QL disappear into oblivion, OR are you going to do something about it? -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Tony Firshman wrote: Surely there is not enough spare cash to buy QPC2 and Qprint, even if JMS (and Marcel) wanted to sell. I've not heard of the proposal before, but I'm generally open to suggestions. QPCPrint (as the standalone executable it is now) is not for sale as its target audience shifted to mostly non-QL users and businesses with old DOS software, but the functionality could be integrated directly into QPC2 to achieve the same goal. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Rich Mellor wrote: However, none of the other traders or even Quanta have entered any information about their own products (I say traders, but we all know how many there are left in the QL community!). In these cases I normally follow the rules for Wikipedia which basically say you shouldn't write about your own stuff but let others do/judge it. This is one of the reasons why I generally don't write articels concerning QPC etc. Besides, I believe I've already done my fair share of work to help the QL stay alive... ;-) But I can very well empathise that the lack of contributions can be very discouraging! Cheers, Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Rich Mellor wrote: On 09/06/2010 08:29, John Sadler wrote: The QL Community is steadily reducing in size. So what can we do to stop the QL disappearing into oblivion? Other old computers have survived by ensuring that emulators programs exist in the public domain. The QL does have public domain emulators but they are a haste to use. The problem is in either they do not work with all programs or else by the time the person has learnt to convert the program so that i will run they have already decided the QL is not for them. There is one emulator which overcomes this problem and that is QPC2. However when you have bought it you find you need QPrint to use a printer! Then you find some of the best programs are commercal thats more expense. George Gwilt suggested at the Quanta AGM that Quanta should buy the rights to QPC2 Qprint with its surplus cash so that they could be part of the public domain and people could appreciate the QL for nothing. Unfortunately these seeds of wisdom fell on stoney ground. SO are you content to see the QL disappear into oblivion OR are you going to do something about it? ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm It does depend to some extent on resources, but also enthusiasm. From the last Quanta survey, it appeared that most of their members do not use emulators, but rely on original hardware. It will be interesting to see what sort of response levels they get to the latest survey and whether this has changed. I would like to see Quanta work together with its members and the rest of the QL community to decide on how best to promote the QL and secure its continued future. I have made a few suggestions in the past, but unfortunately, the Quanta committee did not appear to grasp the concept behind the ideas, or how they can help to promote the QL. But then, it is not just Quanta who lack motivation to do anything about it... A case in point is the QL Wiki at http://www.rwapadventures.com/ql_wiki There are several ideas behind this site, which work together: a) To promote the QL, by increasing the amount of information available on the internet about its hardware, and software b) To preserve copies of QL documentation and help to make them more widely available. c) To preserve copies of commercial QL software, so that if users buy a second hand piece of software, to find that the microdrives will no longer load, or if they have moved onto emulators, they can readily purchase a working copy (on production of proof that they own the original). Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, the main contributors to the QL Wiki remain myself and Dilwyn Jones. When I have time I certainly hope to add to the QL Wiki. Perhaps I might even become a main contributor! When I ask for comments / feedback or assistance, the only response appears to be You have not included any information about [x] The QL Wiki is not designed to remain my site - it is for the whole of the QL community, yet why don't others pull their fingers out and contribute information to it / help to preserve images of software? From my own point of view, I am bound to concentrate on entering information which helps me to ensure the commercial viability of RWAP Software. This works and various people have come to my site as a result of the QL Wiki. However, none of the other traders or even Quanta have entered any information about their own products (I say traders, but we all know how many there are left in the QL community!). So, I have to agree with John's comments - are you content to see the QL disappear into oblivion, OR are you going to do something about it? George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
I came on this list a couple of days ago. I was a QL user for many years and a regular attender at the London group. Some of you may even remember me I stopped using the QL a number of years ago and moved out of London. In an idle moment I wondered what was happening and rejoined the list. The thing that is immediately worrying is that so far every one who has posted is someone whose name I know. If no one new and active has come in during the last few years then the big bell is tolling! martinw ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
On 09/06/2010 20:17, Martin Wheatley wrote: I came on this list a couple of days ago. I was a QL user for many years and a regular attender at the London group. Some of you may even remember me I stopped using the QL a number of years ago and moved out of London. In an idle moment I wondered what was happening and rejoined the list. The thing that is immediately worrying is that so far every one who has posted is someone whose name I know. If no one new and active has come in during the last few years then the big bell is tolling! martinw ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Hi Martin, It is good to see you contributing to the list and maybe we can persuade you to have a go on one of the emulators. There are quite a few people who have come to the QL in the past couple of years - many of them as a result of my own website and purchasing second hand items offered by myself and/or Quanta. Some are more active than others. However, I have a mailing list of over 1000 QL users and it is rare that any of them ask to be removed from the list (please let me know if you would like to be added). So, the market is not quite ready for the death knell. -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
What is the mailing list you're referring to, Rich? Bill Loguidice, Managing Director Armchair Arcade, Inc. http://www.armchairarcade.com Authored Books: http://www.armchairarcade.com/books Film: http://www.armchairarcade.com/film LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice -Original Message- From: ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of Rich Mellor Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:29 PM To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future On 09/06/2010 20:17, Martin Wheatley wrote: Hi Martin, It is good to see you contributing to the list and maybe we can persuade you to have a go on one of the emulators. There are quite a few people who have come to the QL in the past couple of years - many of them as a result of my own website and purchasing second hand items offered by myself and/or Quanta. Some are more active than others. However, I have a mailing list of over 1000 QL users and it is rare that any of them ask to be removed from the list (please let me know if you would like to be added). So, the market is not quite ready for the death knell. -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
On 09/06/2010 20:31, Bill Loguidice wrote: What is the mailing list you're referring to, Rich? Bill Loguidice, Managing Director Armchair Arcade, Inc. http://www.armchairarcade.com Authored Books: http://www.armchairarcade.com/books Film: http://www.armchairarcade.com/film LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/billloguidice -Original Message- From: ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of Rich Mellor Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:29 PM To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future On 09/06/2010 20:17, Martin Wheatley wrote: Hi Martin, It is good to see you contributing to the list and maybe we can persuade you to have a go on one of the emulators. There are quite a few people who have come to the QL in the past couple of years - many of them as a result of my own website and purchasing second hand items offered by myself and/or Quanta. Some are more active than others. However, I have a mailing list of over 1000 QL users and it is rare that any of them ask to be removed from the list (please let me know if you would like to be added). So, the market is not quite ready for the death knell. I have a mailing list of all my customers and the ql-users email list which I send out the occasional email to, advertising forthcoming shows, news and trying to promote Quanta and QL Today membership ! I last sent out an email just before the last Quanta workshop in Birmingham... -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
-- From: Marcel Kilgus ql-us...@mail.kilgus.net Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 12:10 PM To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future Tony Firshman wrote: Surely there is not enough spare cash to buy QPC2 and Qprint, even if JMS (and Marcel) wanted to sell. I've not heard of the proposal before, but I'm generally open to suggestions. QPCPrint (as the standalone executable it is now) is not for sale as its target audience shifted to mostly non-QL users and businesses with old DOS software, but the functionality could be integrated directly into QPC2 to achieve the same goal. At the 2007 Quanta AGM John Mason, the then chairman, made a passing reference to Quanta and QPC2, but the information he gave was not for Quanta buying the rights, but for Quanta to buy a copy as a gift for each member. This suggestion had been made by a member as a way of saving the QL. Obviously he decried the idea because it would not have been an effective way of using Quanta's capital. Firstly there are many Quanta members who have no desire whatsoever to own a PC and secondly over a third of Quanta members already owned QPC2. Had Quanta misunderstood what George had proposed or had there been 2 separate proposals about a Quanta involvement with QPC2? Best Wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Evening all, SO are you content to see the QL disappear into oblivion OR are you going to do something about it? Well, I write articles for QL Toady (for no payment by the way) and hopefully, that helps keep the QL - in any shape or form alive. I also have the http://qdosmsq.dunbar-it.co.uk website as a subdomain of my business website to document the internals of QDOS and SMSQ. It too is a Wiki and while a number of QL names have joined the Wiki - which you don't actually have to do to read it - only myself and George Gwilt have so far contributed. This mailing list is probably the most frequently populated part of QL-Dom - and even here goes deathly quiet at times. My Articles in QL Toady are a mystery to me. Not that I don't know what I'm writing (well, most of the time I do!) but the lack of feedback from almost everyone in the entire world - I sometimes feel that I'm writing for three people - Me, George and a chap called Hugh Rooms who called me to task some time back and made a contribution to the Assembly series. Every time I ask for feedback, the silence is deafening. When I have time I certainly hope to add to the QL Wiki. Perhaps I might even become a main contributor! At the moment George, you are the main contributor to my Wiki as well. So, I have to agree with John's comments - are you content to see the QL disappear into oblivion, OR are you going to do something about it? Well, I used to follow the ZX-81 and then the Spectrum and then the QL - learning all that I could about these enigmatic little machines, but lets face it, we are all very similar to those old codgers who keep old steam railways alive. They too are getting fewer and fewer each year! The QL is dying, but we are doing what we can to keep its little heart beating as long as we possibly can. Without Marcel and QPC, I think it would have bean dead in the water years ago. Other opinions are available, of course, but they are wrong! ;-) (That last bit was intended as a joke, no flames or replies necessary!) One last point, no-one makes money from the QL any more do they? It's a hobby now, that's all. Cheers, Norman. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Am 09.06.2010 um 21:17 schrieb Martin Wheatley: I came on this list a couple of days ago. I was a QL user for many years and a regular attender at the London group. Some of you may even remember me I stopped using the QL a number of years ago and moved out of London. In an idle moment I wondered what was happening and rejoined the list. The thing that is immediately worrying is that so far every one who has posted is someone whose name I know. If no one new and active has come in during the last few years then the big bell is tolling! martinw ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm I am kind of new here (although I owned a QL in the late 80ies). It started with a QL I bought on Ebay last year. In the meantime I own a Q40, two QLs and use QPC3. The QL brought my interest for coding back. Its more fun to code for a simple (but elegant) system like the QL. So I train my skills in SuperBasic and Assembler at the moment and hope, that this ends in new programs for the QL from me. So it´s not impossible, that at least users, who owned a QL in the past come back. I also noticed, that there is a high interest on QLs on ebay. What I miss (but what is understandable, because of the costs) is the lack of new hardware. Especially (apart from new Q60s;-)) some kind of SD-/CF-card-reader for the QL would be nice. Urs Koenig hit on this idea at the QL-meeting in Vienna last weekend. I knew from people, who bought a QL on ebay, but couldn´t use it, because of the microdrives and the lack of an easy way to transfer software from the internet to the QL (I know, that there are disk-interfaces, but for an QL-newbie its not so easy, to buy and use a disk-drive on the QL). With an SD/CF-card-reader someone would be able to load the SD/CF-card on the PC with software and then use it on a QL. There are similar solutions for the C64 or the Sinclair Spectrum. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future - Never Say Die
On 09/06/10 21:21, Anton Preinsack wrote: Am 09.06.2010 um 21:17 schrieb Martin Wheatley: I came on this list a couple of days ago. I was a QL user for many years and a regular attender at the London group. Some of you may even remember me I stopped using the QL a number of years ago and moved out of London. In an idle moment I wondered what was happening and rejoined the list. The thing that is immediately worrying is that so far every one who has posted is someone whose name I know. If no one new and active has come in during the last few years then the big bell is tolling! martinw ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm I am kind of new here (although I owned a QL in the late 80ies). It started with a QL I bought on Ebay last year. In the meantime I own a Q40, two QLs and use QPC3. The QL brought my interest for coding back. Its more fun to code for a simple (but elegant) system like the QL. So I train my skills in SuperBasic and Assembler at the moment and hope, that this ends in new programs for the QL from me. So it´s not impossible, that at least users, who owned a QL in the past come back. I also noticed, that there is a high interest on QLs on ebay. What I miss (but what is understandable, because of the costs) is the lack of new hardware. Especially (apart from new Q60s;-)) some kind of SD-/CF-card-reader for the QL would be nice. Urs Koenig hit on this idea at the QL-meeting in Vienna last weekend. I knew from people, who bought a QL on ebay, but couldn´t use it, because of the microdrives and the lack of an easy way to transfer software from the internet to the QL (I know, that there are disk-interfaces, but for an QL-newbie its not so easy, to buy and use a disk-drive on the QL). With an SD/CF-card-reader someone would be able to load the SD/CF-card on the PC with software and then use it on a QL. There are similar solutions for the C64 or the Sinclair Spectrum. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Hi Anton, SD/SF Card Readers are quite easy to do, most CF readers can plug into the IDE Interface. But the card has to be formatted to SMSQ/E or QDOS. Reading and writing to FAT formatted Card is another story, no device drivers. You might be interested to that only QL I do not have is non-working Thor 8, that I am trying to get up and running. I do not the think QL is dying, just the people who used to use it have moved onto other systems. -- Regards Derek ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
Hi Norman, My Articles in QL Toady are a mystery to me. Not that I don't know what I'm writing (well, most of the time I do!) but the lack of feedback from almost everyone in the entire world - I sometimes feel that I'm writing for three people - Me, George and a chap called Hugh Rooms who called me to task some time back and made a contribution to the Assembly series. It is at least for FOUR people - I read it when I lay it out and enjoy reading it, by the way :-) Every time I ask for feedback, the silence is deafening. It is generally very hard to get feedback, and it was already hard 10 years ago. One last point, no-one makes money from the QL any more do they? It's a hobby now, that's all. I would think so too. I enjoy doing the magazine and hope to add my share to keep the QL scene alive... as you will be able to see when the new issue will arrive (all posted, so you should have it sooner or later ... except from the visitors of the Vienna show who got it personally delivered), I have not raised the price, and added extra pages as well. Fewer subscribers mean, the costs per issue increase - the amount of time I have to spend remains the same. And yes, it's a hobby for me too. I still think QL Today is a kind of glue which keeps us QLers together. I am sorry I cannot pay for the articles, and I am sorry I don't earn money from the QL anymore (when I did many, many years ago, it was a rather more enjoyable time than it is now in some cases, but money has to come in somehow...) ... and the advertisers merely pay and paid in the past years for the copying costs of their advertising page (nothing to earn there too). And, as Marcel wrote to Rich's mail - I also feel when I put things about my own products into Wikis, it could be regarded as self-advertising. Cheers Jochen -- Jochen Merz Software - Kaiser-Wilhelm-Str. 302 - D-47169 Duisburg Tel. +49-(0)203-502011 Fax +49-(0)203-502012 Email: s...@j-m-s.com Homepage: http://SMSQ.J-M-S.COM ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future - Never Say Die
On 09/06/10 21:21, Anton Preinsack wrote: SD/SF Card Readers are quite easy to do, most CF readers can plug into the IDE Interface. But the card has to be formatted to SMSQ/E or QDOS. Reading and writing to FAT formatted Card is another story, no device drivers. ... well that fits in well with the work Adrian Ives is doing. I haven't heard from him for a while, but he had skeleton drivers to write to the on-board FAT formatted SD card on UsbWiz, using a serial interface. That card could be written to on a PC, although execable files would need to be zipped by a QL system or written from a QL emulator. There are a few issue though. 1) I suspect it would need a QL with extra memory to be useful 2) It woud be very slow speed without at least Hermes 3) It needs a 5v power supply superHermes has 5v available and could probably work at 230400 bps, but this is moving away from a bare QL that Urs is looking to support. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
In message 428105907.20100609131...@kilgus.net, Marcel Kilgus ql-us...@mail.kilgus.net writes Tony Firshman wrote: Surely there is not enough spare cash to buy QPC2 and Qprint, even if JMS (and Marcel) wanted to sell. I've not heard of the proposal before, but I'm generally open to suggestions. QPCPrint (as the standalone executable it is now) is not for sale as its target audience shifted to mostly non-QL users and businesses with old DOS software, but the functionality could be integrated directly into QPC2 to achieve the same goal. Marcel Hi Marcel, That would be a nice addition to the functionality - awful phrase ( ! ) - of QPC. Keep up the good work ... :-) -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
In message e1omqmr-0007an...@outmx02.plus.net, Martin Wheatley mart...@martinwheatley.plus.com writes I came on this list a couple of days ago. I was a QL user for many years and a regular attender at the London group. Some of you may even remember me I stopped using the QL a number of years ago and moved out of London. In an idle moment I wondered what was happening and rejoined the list. The thing that is immediately worrying is that so far every one who has posted is someone whose name I know. If no one new and active has come in during the last few years then the big bell is tolling! martinw Hi Martin, Welcome back ... :-) Probably most contributors on this list use a vast array of computers and other advanced hardware and systems. Yet, we all continue our fondness for the QL. The Big Bell as you put it, has been chiming for many years now - we just continue to enjoy the sound . :-) PS - The London venue has now been completely refurbished. Call in at some time, when you are able. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] The QL Future
On 09/06/2010 21:42, SMSQ - Jochen Merz wrote: One last point, no-one makes money from the QL any more do they? It's a hobby now, that's all. I would think so too. I enjoy doing the magazine and hope to add my share to keep the QL scene alive... as you will be able to see when the new issue will arrive (all posted, so you should have it sooner or later ... except from the visitors of the Vienna show who got it personally delivered), I have not raised the price, and added extra pages as well. Fewer subscribers mean, the costs per issue increase - the amount of time I have to spend remains the same. And yes, it's a hobby for me too. I still think QL Today is a kind of glue which keeps us QLers together. I am sorry I cannot pay for the articles, and I am sorry I don't earn money from the QL anymore (when I did many, many years ago, it was a rather more enjoyable time than it is now in some cases, but money has to come in somehow...) ... and the advertisers merely pay and paid in the past years for the copying costs of their advertising page (nothing to earn there too). And, as Marcel wrote to Rich's mail - I also feel when I put things about my own products into Wikis, it could be regarded as self-advertising. Cheers Jochen Believe it or not, there is still a burgeoning market out there for retro computers - I rely on them for my main source of income at the moment (since I was made redundant in December) and have successfully brought several new products to market (or made old ones available again), and all this helps. People do want new products, but they also want to be able to keep using their existing products, and that is why the software preservation side of the QL Wiki is equally important - many users find that as microdrive cartridges degrade, or they move onto an emulator, they no longer have access to their favourite programs, some of which are copy protected. We even have a version of QL Pawn which will run under an emulator (although you cannot save on q-emulator, but can on ql2k for some reason). Over the past few years, we have sourced and brought to market: - Replacement QL case tops and PSUs which had been lurking in one of Tony's sheds for many years - The Molex keyboard connectors for QLs, ZX81s and Spectrums (normally ruined when someone has used a keyboard replacement which plugs in in place of the old keyboard membranes (such as the Schoen keyboard) - A Compact Flash card interface for the ZX Spectrum (DivIDE Plus) - A Mouse and PC Keyboard Interface for the ZX Spectrum - Keyboard membranes for the ZX81, ZX Spectrum and QL - Keyboard faceplates for the ZX Spectrum - QWord It is continued activity and investment in these type of projects which is needed. The QL Wiki (and Norman's Wiki on the internal workings of the QL) all help to disseminate information and make the QL more attractive to new (and returning users). Prior to the QL Wiki, I had seen plenty of posts on discussion forums about what QL software had been produced and bemoaning the lack of any quality games (many people still believed it was just a business machine). As for Marcel's and Jochen's comments about posting information on wikis being regarded as self-advertising - well, there are some views on this: 1. Surely the software / hardware designers are best positioned to provide the background of the hardware and software? 2. The internet may be aimed at providing information, but 99% of sites (including wikis) are used for promotion of business - after all, not many people can afford to set up and maintain a website longterm without it providing some source of revenue. If someone is interested in reading about QPC2 for example, why leave it open ended as to where they can now obtain a copy from ? That is like telling someone about a wonderful product which will change their lives immensely, but if they want to get hold of it, sorry - just look on google and see if anyone else has listed it for sale... 3. What is wrong with self-promotion? Surely anyone who writes a CV out and puts it online on a job site is doing just that thing and nobody would argue against doing that. Rich -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
