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2020-11-25 Thread graham stapleton via sundial

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The rarely-seen 17th century painted great decliner sundial at Ham House, 
Richmond-upon-Thames, UK, will feature on British television and sometime after 
transmission become available online.

The dial, which I have proposed was made in 1622, was walled-in during 
extensions to the house in 1674 and was not rediscovered until 1965. The room 
it is in is now used as a store and so only accessible by special arrangement. 
Even then, because shelving has been constructed close to the wall, the dial is 
not conveniently seen.

Subject to new editorial and schedule changes, the programme "Secrets of the 
National Trust with Alan Tichmarsh" will be broadcast on UK terrestial Channel 
5 Select, Tuesday 1st December at 21.00 GMT/UCT. After that it should be 
available on the internet, although there appears to be a delay in content 
being put up.


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2020-09-03 Thread Brad Thayer via sundial

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Well, at a minimum, there would be two cases:

1) where the crossings are co-linear
2) where they are not

I assume the latter would never work?  Where they are co-linear, it would seem 
that it would only give a single crossing point at a single solar elevation and 
time of day.

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 3, 2020, at 4:34 AM, sundial-requ...@uni-koeln.de wrote:
> 
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Fake "trifilar" Sun Dial? (Siegfried Netzband)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2020 10:34:15 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Siegfried Netzband 
> To: "sundial@uni-koeln.de" 
> Subject: Fake "trifilar" Sun Dial?
> Message-ID:
>
> <1599122055890.148710.5cb4a77174fa75af79b9d2668db68da397c6c...@spica.telekom.de>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Dear sundialists,
> found the attached picture in an old archive and do not have any details 
> about it.
> The dial shown seems to be somethig like a "bifilar sundial with three 
> straight wires". The wires obviously do not touch one another. The picture 
> was taken at the moment when all wire shadows cross in one point on the 
> dial face suggesting that the sundial  shows the time at that moment (and 
> any other?). There is no dial face visible. What kind of sun dial is that - 
> what could be the idea behind it and it?s purpose?
> Is there anyboddy out threre who could answer the following questions and 
> can help me to solve my problem, i.e. clarify that sun dial:
> - Has any one seen that picture before? If so, do you have any details 
> about it? Please let me know.
> - The originator of that sun dial must have had some very special ideas 
> when constructing that sun dial. To the best of my knowledge a picture like 
> that where the shadows of three wires which do not touch one another, 
> mounted at different heights and angles across the face of the dial, cross 
> in one point on the face of the dial, can only be taken at at most 2 times 
> a year, each time at exactly the same solar time. Am I right or does there 
> realy exist something like a "trifilar sundial" as shown in the picture 
> idicating time over the year?
> - Taking the sun dial shown to a singular, simplistic extreme: At whatever 
> angles or hights multiple wires might run across a dial and touch each 
> other at their crrossing point, the dial would simply work and could be 
> calculated taking the crossing / touching point as the tip of the gnomon, 
> the node of the dial. Correct?
> - Does any one know wether H. Michnik, the inventor of the bifilar sun dial 
> and its theory in 1923,  has made any mathematical statement about 
> "multifilar sundails"?
> Thank you for your help and
> Kind Regards
> Siegfried
> 
> 
> Siegfried Netzband
> Hebelstr. 12
> 75233 Tiefenbronn
> Tel: 07234 2802
> Fax: 07234 942909
> Mob: 0151 53083636 / 0160 1531634
> E-Post: siegfried.netzb...@epost.de
> Skype: siegfried75233<http://www.ferienhaus-frieseneck.de>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> -- next part --
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> 
> --
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> ___
> sundial mailing list
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> 
> --
> 
> End of sundial Digest, Vol 177, Issue 1
> ***

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2020-08-09 Thread John Davis via sundial

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DearAndré,

I think the articles to which you refer were published in some of the 
early issues of the NASS Compendium, and not the BSS Bulletin.


Regards,

John


-- Original Message --
From: "André Reekmqns" 
To: sundial@uni-koeln.de
Sent: Saturday, 8 Aug, 20 At 17:59
Subject: request

Looking for the 3 pages article published in BSS or NASS 10 years? about 
rectifying a misaligned pole-style horizontal or vertical sundial.


André Reekmans
Sundial Society of Flanders, Belgium.

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Dr J Davis
Flowton Dials http://www.flowton-dials.co.uk/ 
<http://www.flowton-dials.co.uk/>


BSS Editor http://sundialsoc.org.uk/publications/the-bss-bulletin/ 
<http://www.sundialsoc.org.uk/bulletin.php>




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2020-07-02 Thread Stanislav Putowsky via sundial

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To make my little contribution to the solution of the problem, I think, that 
Sara Schechner, as always, has pointed the best solution.
At that time it was no difference between Astrology and Astronomy, and all the 
Astronomical_Astrological events were calculated with the help of astrolabes, 
which they take in account the "Dusk", because they have the "Crepuscular Line" 
18° below the horizon line.
If it could be of some help, here is a link to Academia, where is my work about 
the construction of the astrolabes in the time of Alfonso X of Castille, (The 
same of the Alfonsine Tables), and also according to some other Spanish 
manuscripts.
I hope this will help to understand about the capability of Astrolabes to 
measure minutes (of arc) after the Sunrise, and how the Sky was at this time.

Here is the link to my papers.

https://independent.academia.edu/PastorAlfonso

Sincerely yours.

Stanislav Putowsky
putow...@yahoo.com

> On 1 Jul 2020, at 18:23, Ross Sinclair Caldwell  wrote:
> 
> 
> Thank you, Gian!
> 
> So it was in the "second part" of Maria Arnaldi's paper, that I stupidly did 
> not read. 
> 
> Perfect. I am very grateful.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Ross
> 43.349399 3.22422981
> Béziers, France
> 
> De : Gian Casalegno 
> Envoyé : mercredi 1 juillet 2020 18:13
> À : Ross Sinclair Caldwell 
> Cc : sundial list sundials 
> Objet : Re: Time problem
>  
> You can find an explanation of the meaning of the hours "da campanile" i.e. 
> "a half hour after" in :
> https://www.academia.edu/2021256/Le_ore_italiane._Origine_e_declino_di_uno_dei_piu_importanti_sistemi_orari_del_passato_seconda_parte_
>   
> Regards,
> Gian
> 
> 
> Il giorno mer 1 lug 2020 alle ore 17:04 Ross Sinclair Caldwell 
>  ha scritto:
> To find some authority for the understanding that the Italian hours begin at 
> the end of dusk, or about half an hour after sunset, I note that in the BBS 
> Sundial Glossary under “hour plane” - “Italian” it says -
> 
> “there is some evidence in older works that Italian hours were counted from 
> 30 minutes after sunset.”  
> http://sundialsoc.org.uk/discussions/glossary-a-z/8/
> 
> Does anyone know what this evidence in older works is?
> 
> A few other places I've looked -
> 
> Wikipedia says “end of dusk, i.e. half an hour after sunset.”
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hour
> 
> This looked promising - Mario Arnaldi, Le ore italiane. Origine e declino di 
> uno dei più importanti sistemi orari del passato (prima parte).
> https://www.academia.edu/2021250/Le_ore_italiane._Origine_e_declino_di_uno_dei_piu_importanti_sistemi_orari_del_passato_prima_parte_
> 
> But he does not mention the notion of "a half hour after" (mezz'ora dopo) 
> sunset  (tramonto del sole).
> 
> Ross Caldwell
> 43.349399 3.22422981
> Béziers, France
> 
> 
> De : sundial  de la part de Ross Sinclair 
> Caldwell 
> Envoyé : mercredi 1 juillet 2020 16:41
> À : John Davis ; Schechner, Sara 
> 
> Cc : 'sundial list sundials' 
> Objet : RE: Time problem
>  
> Hi John, Sara et al., 
> My understanding is that a seasonal (or unequal) hour is a period of time 
> ('in the first hour' etc) and not an instant. It is never divided up into 
> minutes and so the time of 6 minutes after dawn must be referring to a time 
> in equal hours, most probably measured with an astrolabe as you suggest.
> I agree. All that remains unknowable is the visibilty at the time. If it were 
> overcast at dawn, they must have calculated rather than observed. But I tend 
> to think it was observed, and determined with an astrolabe. 
> 
> Ross
> De : John Davis 
> Envoyé : mercredi 1 juillet 2020 10:10
> À : Ross Sinclair Caldwell ; Schechner, Sara 
> 
> Cc : 'sundial list sundials' 
> Objet : RE: Time problem
>  
> Hi Sara, Ross et al,
> 
> 
> My understanding is that a seasonal (or unequal) hour is a period of time 
> ('in the first hour' etc) and not an instant. It is never divided up into 
> minutes and so the time of 6 minutes after dawn must be referring to a time 
> in equal hours, most probably measured with an astrolabe as you suggest.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 
> John
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> 
> From: "Schechner, Sara" 
> 
> To: "Ross Sinclair Caldwell" 
> 
> Cc: "'sundial list sundials'" 
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, 30 Jun,

[no subject]

2020-07-01 Thread John Davis via sundial

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Hi Sara, Ross et al,

My understanding is that a seasonal (or unequal) hour is a period of 
time ('in the first hour' etc) and not an instant. It is never divided 
up into minutes and so the time of 6 minutes after dawn must be 
referring to a time in equal hours, most probably measured with an 
astrolabe as you suggest.


Regards,

John
---

-- Original Message --
From: "Schechner, Sara" 
To: "Ross Sinclair Caldwell" 
Cc: "'sundial list sundials'" 
Sent: Tuesday, 30 Jun, 20 At 21:20
Subject: RE: Time problem


In short, I am researching the biography of Filippo Maria Visconti 
(1392-1447), duke of Milan, and you probably know that these Italian 
princes  relied heavily on astrology. So, Visconti's time of birth 
is known precisely - "six minutes after sunrise," Monday, 23 
September, 1392. His natal chart was of course produced and 
interpreted, but it has been lost. I am trying to recreate it as it 
might have  been done by a court astrologer of the time.<<<


I have some thoughts about ascertaining the time of “6 minutes after 
sunrise” in 1392 in Milan.


First of all, Milan is one of the earliest towns to have a public tower 
clock in the 14th century, but it would only strike and show hours 
according to local solar time.  It would not be divided into  minutes. 
It was not reliable enough for such a horological chart.


Sundials would be the more commonly used timepiece, but the six-minutes 
is an unusual amount of precision.  My guess is that the court 
astronomer was using an astrolabe, which can be divided into units in 
the range  of 4-6 minutes.  Many also had arcs for the astrological 
houses and for both equal and unequal hours.  The actual time might have 
been taken from a bright star still visible in the dawn.


It is also worth considering what this 6-minutes after dawn really 
means.  Is the astrologer using unequal hours which were still more 
common in these early days of clocks?  If so, then six minutes would be 
equal  to 1/10 of the first hour on that day of the year—i.e., 1/10 of 
1/12 of the length of daylight.


Lastly, in reconstructing a horoscope, one needs to know the position of 
the planets to place them on the chart.  Some might be observed, but 
mostly they are taken from a table.  These varied in different 
manuscript  traditions.  Do we have a clue what table the astrologer was 
using?


Good luck with your project.

Sara

Sara J. Schechner, Ph.D.
David P. Wheatland Curator of the Collection of Historical Scientific 
Instruments

Lecturer on the History of Science
Department of the History of Science, Harvard University
Science Center 251c, 1 Oxford Street, Cambridge, MA 02138
Tel: 617-496-9542   |   Fax: 617-495-3344
sche...@fas.harvard.edu <mailto:sche...@fas.harvard.edu>   | 
@SaraSchechner
http://scholar.harvard.edu/saraschechner 
<http://scholar.harvard.edu/saraschechner>

http://chsi.harvard.edu/ <http://chsi.harvard.edu/>



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Dr J Davis
Flowton Dials http://www.flowton-dials.co.uk/ 
<http://www.flowton-dials.co.uk/>


BSS Editor http://sundialsoc.org.uk/publications/the-bss-bulletin/ 
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2020-05-19 Thread John Goodman via sundial

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> Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 14:05:55 +0200
> From: Willy Leenders 
> To: Sundial sundiallist 
> Subject: combination of vertical sundial and a noon sundial
> 
> This sundial (see picture) is a successful combination of a regular vertical 
> sundial and a noon sundial with analemma. I found the photo somewhere on the 
> internet. Does anyone know where it can be seen in reality?
> 
> Willy Leenders
> Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium)
> 

This looks like the same dial:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sundials_with_analemmatic_noon_marks#/media/File:AixProv3.jpg
 
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sundials_with_analemmatic_noon_marks#/media/File:AixProv3.jpg>

Aix-en-Provence: Place Richelme, Sonnenuhr an der Rückwand des Postamtes

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2020-05-04 Thread Bob Throssell via sundial

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Good morning

My name is Nick Sanderson and I am the sole executor to the estate of the late 
Dr Walter Robert Throssell (Bob), who sadly died after a short illness on 3 
November 2019. 

I am sorry to advise you of his death but request you remove his details from 
your forum.

Thank you for arranging this.

Yours faithfully

Nick Sanderson

Sent from my iPad

> On 23 Apr 2020, at 11:28, Douglas Bateman via sundial  
> wrote:
> 
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2020-05-04 Thread Bob Throssell via sundial

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Good morning

My name is Nick Sanderson and I am the sole executor to the estate of the late 
Dr Walter Robert Throssell (Bob), who sadly died after a short illness on 3 
November 2019. 

I am sorry to advise you of his death but request you remove his details from 
your forum.

Thank you for arranging this.

Yours faithfully

Nick Sanderson

Sent from my iPad

> On 23 Apr 2020, at 11:28, Douglas Bateman via sundial  
> wrote:
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2020-04-09 Thread guerbabi ali via sundial

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Dear Johnand members of the Sundial List,

These arethe greek names for the respective solstices and the equinoxes carved
on over25 ancient sundials (planar and hollow), most of them are in Sharon
Gibbs’ book(from Delos: 1001, 1072, 4001; from Pompeii: 4007; from Rome: 4008,
4009, 4010;from Ephesos: 3058: etc).

As for thefront face, normally it should be oblique in the plane of
thecelestial equator, but it happens that some ancient conical and spherical
sundialsare not. Here the image is misleading because the disappearanceof the
corners can give the impression that the face is vertical. We should have a
side photo to know what it really is.

Regards

AliGuerbabi

35.547 N /6.16 E

Le jeudi 9 avril 2020 à 08:54:55 UTC+1, John Davis via sundial
a écrit :

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This message was wrapped to be DMARC compliant. The actual message
text is therefore in an attachment.Dear Frans,
The picture that Dan-George pointed us to is excellent and intriguing too. My
reading of the lettering is slightly different from yours. Starting from the
top (presumably the winter solstice), I get
X I M E P I N H H M E P I N H E P I N H
where the columns represent the spaces between the hour lines. There could be
some misreadings here. It is clearly not the standard Greek system of using the
first letters of their alphabet as numbers but I don’t recognise the names of
the seasons either. Looking through Sharon Gibbs’ book, I couldn’t find a
similar set of inscriptions. Can any classical scholars help us?
As a second point, the front face of the marble looks to be vertical in the
photo but I found another view online which seems to show it cut back at an
oblique angle. Both forms of dial are known - which is this?
Regards,
John
—
Dr J Davis
Flowton Dials http://www.flowton-dials.co.uk/
BSS Editor http://sundialsoc.org.uk/publications/the-bss-bulletin/

On 8 Apr 2020, at 18:37, Maes, F.W. wrote:

Dan-George, thank you for the link! That is a beautiful ancient scaphe dial.The
article says: "The sundial features ... Greek names of seasons". I can read a
number of characters, which at all three date lines (equinox and solstices)
seem to include MEPINH. What season names are these?
Keep healthy!
Frans Maes

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 12:33 PM Roser Raluy wrote:

Thank you, it looks great!Roser Raluy
Missatge de Dan-George Uza del dia dt., 7 d’abr. 2020
a les 10:12:

Hello, I've just read about the discovery of an antique sundial in Turkey.
https://www.dailysabah.com/life/history/2000-year-old-sundial-unearthed-in-southern-turkeys-denizli

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