Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing
Careless. Unaware. Insensitive. Self-centered. Un-informed. Selfish. Uh-huh. And probably another two dozen similar adjectives. My full size diesel Chevy 4x4 trucks average 20 and 24 mpg. And just how many of those average 12,000 miles per annum require the use of a heavy duty farm truck? Half? All? 15%? You do the math. And then there is the plurality of your remark, as in trucks, as if you can drive more than one at a time? Two vehicles? Why not one full-duty and one economy? You do the justification. I use bio diesel and pay more for it. Why To protect the environment. Horse crap. All you're doing is soothing your own justifiably guilt-ridden conscience. You're still draining enormous resources for your own personal gain/pleasure through your largess in choice of vehicles. On top of that you need to clarify what you mean by biodiesel. Ask one-hundred people and probably ninety-nine would call B-001 biodiesel when all it is is adulterated petroleum fuel. And on top of that there is no such thing as carbon neutral biodiesel in the marketplace. Whatever diesel vehicle you're driving, it isn't exactly protect[ing] the environment. Maybe not damaging it to the same percentage as if you used pure petroleum diesel. But certainly not the benign, all-encompassing protect[ing] that so many people think they're doing by making a greener consumer choice. Death by close-range scatter gun or death by slow asphyxiation. Yippeee What a choice. Protect me!!! Protect me!!! I know my family is much safer in my 3/4 ton trucks, than my Geo Metro! Because I see the accidents first hand, frequently. I can safely say THE BIG VEHICLE ALWAYS WINS! Again, horse crap. A car is only as safe as the driver. And what you profess to witness first hand is not anyone win[ning]. It's everyone losing in situations with probably dozens of contributing factors, inclusive of people thinking they're invincible because their truck is bigger than everyone elses, so they don't have to pay attention to common safety practices. A large vehicle makes nothing safer and to a very large degree makes nothing necessarily more survivable. Compared the number of rollover deaths in Mini Coopers to SUVs lately? Thought not. You're all-encompassing statement wreeks at a level of conscience and consciousness and belies the little amount of thought you not only put into your remarks but your purchases as well. When I talk to other Truck and SUV owners about Bio diesel, they at times blow me off as one of those Environmental Wackos. And when you talk to someone environmentally inclined they probably (and rightfully so) blow you off as one of those folks who thinks that changing fuels is somehow a substitute for changing behavior. (Oh goodee!!! I can drive forever and a day without a care in the world now that I use biodiesel.} You see, Jay, you're other Truck and SUV associates may have it half right - the Wacko part, certainly not the eco. But out of deference for the moment? Let's just say that you're either largely mis-informed, under-informed, or just don't get it, before we begin to presume that you just don't care. You know; the ones who hate SUV's and their owners. Naw, Jay. We just hate ignorance (to know something but disregard or disavow it) and selfishness in lieu of far greater concerns that are going to push everyone over the brink. Oh, when I say everyone? That means you, your family and their progeny too, not just those poor, unlucky bastards that call an ocean atoll their home. Lets quit confirming the belief that Wacko, Liberal, Environmentalists want to take away the safety and independence that an SUV represents to their owners. :-) Yah. Sure. Just like they want to take away your gun, your right to property, and your pursuit of near beer? How about let's stop planting red herrings and strawmen to blur the transparency of illogical arguments, much less categorizing anyone who thinks differently (as in more completely) from you as someone to be badgered and belittled. Oh..., and to revisit safety and independence that an SUV represents to their owners. Glad to see that you at least acknowledge (in an unguarded moment?) that all they do is represent. THERE ARE OPTIONS Yes. There are. Using one's brain before they drain their wallet on two (or more) four-wheel-drive pavement locomotives when only one (probably at most) is necessary would be a good place to start. Gotta' pour walls and frame a house? Great. Have to go to Jenny's dance recital or the corner mart for cancer sticks and lawnmower beer? Not. We need all the people we can get on our side! :-) again. First it needs to be determined exactly what side you're on. By the sound of it, you're sitting fat, happy and sassy in the mainstream, just going wherever the current takes you for the most part. Many like to walk the ridges and
Re: [Biofuel] Isopropyl questions and a few other questions
Hi everyone, Anyways I'm having trouble locating 100% isopropyl alcohol. Isopropyl alcohol for titration is HEET in the red bottle at the auto parts store. Not much there, but enough for titration. snip And lastly I found a chemical company who will sell me a 55 gallon drum of methanol for $2.60 a gallon. 2.60/gal is $143 for a 55 gal drum. That is a much better price than I paid. Sorry, no help with the lye. Thanks again everyone, Theo Chadzichristos Chris K Cayce, SC ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing
Well I drive a 84 Ford F250 dually with 83,000 miles and I make my own biodiesel! Now who is more consevative a guy that drives 15,000 miles per year in a hybrid or me? - Original Message - From: Appal Energymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing Evil? Who said evil? Careless. Unaware. Insensitive. Self-centered. Un-informed. Selfish. Uh-huh. And probably another two dozen similar adjectives. My full size diesel Chevy 4x4 trucks average 20 and 24 mpg. And just how many of those average 12,000 miles per annum require the use of a heavy duty farm truck? Half? All? 15%? You do the math. And then there is the plurality of your remark, as in trucks, as if you can drive more than one at a time? Two vehicles? Why not one full-duty and one economy? You do the justification. I use bio diesel and pay more for it. Why To protect the environment. Horse crap. All you're doing is soothing your own justifiably guilt-ridden conscience. You're still draining enormous resources for your own personal gain/pleasure through your largess in choice of vehicles. On top of that you need to clarify what you mean by biodiesel. Ask one-hundred people and probably ninety-nine would call B-001 biodiesel when all it is is adulterated petroleum fuel. And on top of that there is no such thing as carbon neutral biodiesel in the marketplace. Whatever diesel vehicle you're driving, it isn't exactly protect[ing] the environment. Maybe not damaging it to the same percentage as if you used pure petroleum diesel. But certainly not the benign, all-encompassing protect[ing] that so many people think they're doing by making a greener consumer choice. Death by close-range scatter gun or death by slow asphyxiation. Yippeee What a choice. Protect me!!! Protect me!!! I know my family is much safer in my 3/4 ton trucks, than my Geo Metro! Because I see the accidents first hand, frequently. I can safely say THE BIG VEHICLE ALWAYS WINS! Again, horse crap. A car is only as safe as the driver. And what you profess to witness first hand is not anyone win[ning]. It's everyone losing in situations with probably dozens of contributing factors, inclusive of people thinking they're invincible because their truck is bigger than everyone elses, so they don't have to pay attention to common safety practices. A large vehicle makes nothing safer and to a very large degree makes nothing necessarily more survivable. Compared the number of rollover deaths in Mini Coopers to SUVs lately? Thought not. You're all-encompassing statement wreeks at a level of conscience and consciousness and belies the little amount of thought you not only put into your remarks but your purchases as well. When I talk to other Truck and SUV owners about Bio diesel, they at times blow me off as one of those Environmental Wackos. And when you talk to someone environmentally inclined they probably (and rightfully so) blow you off as one of those folks who thinks that changing fuels is somehow a substitute for changing behavior. (Oh goodee!!! I can drive forever and a day without a care in the world now that I use biodiesel.} You see, Jay, you're other Truck and SUV associates may have it half right - the Wacko part, certainly not the eco. But out of deference for the moment? Let's just say that you're either largely mis-informed, under-informed, or just don't get it, before we begin to presume that you just don't care. You know; the ones who hate SUV's and their owners. Naw, Jay. We just hate ignorance (to know something but disregard or disavow it) and selfishness in lieu of far greater concerns that are going to push everyone over the brink. Oh, when I say everyone? That means you, your family and their progeny too, not just those poor, unlucky bastards that call an ocean atoll their home. Lets quit confirming the belief that Wacko, Liberal, Environmentalists want to take away the safety and independence that an SUV represents to their owners. :-) Yah. Sure. Just like they want to take away your gun, your right to property, and your pursuit of near beer? How about let's stop planting red herrings and strawmen to blur the transparency of illogical arguments, much less categorizing anyone who thinks differently (as in more completely) from you as someone to be badgered and belittled. Oh..., and to revisit safety and independence that an SUV represents to their owners. Glad to see that you at least acknowledge (in an unguarded moment?) that all they do is represent. THERE ARE OPTIONS Yes. There are. Using one's brain before they drain their wallet on two (or more)
Re: Fwd: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing
With all due respect, there just isn't any indication that SUVs are any safer than small cars. Also, a lot of people are not very good at driving them. I believe that makes them even less safe. Furthermore, an SUV or large truck only provides the driver a greater chance of harming someone in a small car in the event of a collision as opposed to providing the SUV occupants any greater safety. A recent test showed that the new VW beetle is one of the safest cars ever built. SUV's certainly feel safer to drive because of their higher vantage point but, they also have a higher center of gravity than a sedan. This obviously makes them more prone to rolling over, though. I wouldn't feel safe driving your Geo Metro either. I've owned one and have driven in others. Frankly, they are poorly built cars. Moreover, if we all drove reasonably sized vehicles, we would all be at the same risk and probably drive a bit more defensively (carefully). Though I applaud you for running biodiesel in your truck, conservation is our greatest energy source (stolen and bastardized). The biodiesel have to come from somewhere. And there are chemicals and energy used in that process as well. I assume you are using commercial biodiesel. If that is the case, that biodiesel is being made out of a feedstock which comes from a source that is being grown on land which could better serve to feed the hungry or, heaven forbid, return to natural use by an actual ecosystem. Some (myself included) might also be a bit resentful that any Schmoe can get an incentive to buy a large vehicle regardless of its use while others can't even get a tax break to install solar, wind, or geothermal power. *Some* can get tax relief to go to solar and other energy sources but, not I. Forget about any assistance in taking a risk on a new automotive technology that just might help save our planet. Those who have a legitimate need for a large vehicle because of work requirements are just fine by me. The same holds true for those who use it to provide their family with necessities such as wood for heating. Most are used to take the kids to soccer or drag the jet ski to the lake (I better not get started on that one). I don't know anyone who uses all that space in their SUV to carry a large family. Those large families buy passenger vans. Drive a small car everywhere you go and I'm sure you'll spend more time at your destination. SUVs (and large cars and mini-vans) today have more entertainment features than imaginable. No wonder our communities are more splintered than ever! People spend more time listening to the car radio or talking on the cell phone than they do getting to know their neighbors. Families don't talk to one another on car rides any more either. The kids watch the DVD player in the back seat while mom and dad sit silently in the front seat. Even without the DVD player I have a hard enough time getting my kids to enjoy the scenery on a drive. I hope I haven't offended you, I mean no harm. Take care, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Isopropyl questions and a few other questions
There is no such thing as 100% isopropyl. 95% is the highest concentration you can get. If you were able to get 100% it would be 95% as soon as you open the bottle. It absorbs moisture from the air. Jeremy The esteemed Theo wrote: Hi everyone, Anyways I'm having trouble locating 100% isopropyl alcohol. Isopropyl alcohol for titration is HEET in the red bottle at the auto parts store. Not much there, but enough for titration. snip And lastly I found a chemical company who will sell me a 55 gallon drum of methanol for $2.60 a gallon. 2.60/gal is $143 for a 55 gal drum. That is a much better price than I paid. Sorry, no help with the lye. Thanks again everyone, Theo Chadzichristos Chris K Cayce, SC ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
Hello members, The acetone post is very interesting. will it harm catalytic converter ,oxygen sensor and fuel injection system? oilpalm1 subramanian D.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello members, The information below came in one of the Emails. http://pesn.com/2005/03/ 17/6900069_Acetone/ Acetone In Fuel Said to Increase Mileage 15-35% Readily-available chemical added to gas tank in small proportion improves the fuel's ability to vaporize completely by eliminating the surface tension that causes some particulates to note fully vaporize. by Louis LaPointe Adapted by Sterling D. Allan with LaPoint's permission for Pure Energy Systems News Acetone (CH3COCH3), also called dimethylketone or propanone, is a product that can be purchased inexpensively in most locations around the world, such as in the common hardware store. Added to the fuel tank in tiny amounts, it aids in the vaporization of the gasoline or diesel, increasing fuel efficiency, engine longevity, and performance -- as well as reducing hydrocarbon emissions How Much to Use Add in tiny amounts from about one part per 5000 to one part per 500, depending on the vehicle -- just a few ounces per ten gallons of gas than demand . I have never seen a problem with acetone, and I have used ACETONE in gasoline and diesel fuel and in jet fuel (JP-4) for 50 years. See also Acetone as a Fuel Additive (index at PESWiki) Fuel The qty of acetone to be mixed with petrol works out 2cc to 20 cc per 10 litres of petrol. The PESWiki link mentioned does not give any guidance about the mixing ratio. I am about to try this on our family car . Acetone is available in the local chemicals market in 2 qualities-- commercial quality at the lower price equivalent of 2 U.S.dollars a litre and the one for laboratory use at 6 dollars a litre. Could any of the members of this forum tell me the difference between commercial quality and laboratory quality acetone? Does the ratio mentioned above for mixing with gasoline apply to commercial or lab quality acetone? Anybody else had the same positive result ? Regards, D.V.Subramanian. Chennai, India . - Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing
and I make my own biodiesel! Now who is more consevative a guy that drives 15,000 miles per year in a hybrid or me? That would largely depend on the same parameters applied to Jay, as they would be applied to the hybrid owner. Needless miles out of that 15,000? Miles driven without payload or to get one? How do you dispose of your waste and co-products from making biodiesel? Is the hybrid diesel? Multi-fuel? Seems like a lot of people want to crow just because they do one thing right. Not knocking it. One is better than none, for the most part. Just how many percentage points do we all get wrong and/or fail to even acknowledge while we're puffing out our own chests? Making your own biodiesel cancels out what? Not buying fair trade coffee? Applying 50 pounds of Ortho to your little slice of God's green acre? Traveling 75 instead of 55 mph? Running the AC Down to 72* or more? Eating globally rather than locally? Did I forget to ask if the hybrid owner was a grazer or a meat eater? And you would like a definitive decision as to who's more conservative based upon but one criteria? Oh, and yes. I own a F-250, 3/4 ton (farm, construction and WVO hauling) as well as being custodian of three VW Golf diesels on the mend and just reconditioned and rebuilt a fourth. And I have yet to scratch the surface of how conservative I can still be. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Craig Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing Well I drive a 84 Ford F250 dually with 83,000 miles and I make my own biodiesel! Now who is more consevative a guy that drives 15,000 miles per year in a hybrid or me? - Original Message - From: Appal Energymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing Evil? Who said evil? Careless. Unaware. Insensitive. Self-centered. Un-informed. Selfish. Uh-huh. And probably another two dozen similar adjectives. My full size diesel Chevy 4x4 trucks average 20 and 24 mpg. And just how many of those average 12,000 miles per annum require the use of a heavy duty farm truck? Half? All? 15%? You do the math. And then there is the plurality of your remark, as in trucks, as if you can drive more than one at a time? Two vehicles? Why not one full-duty and one economy? You do the justification. I use bio diesel and pay more for it. Why To protect the environment. Horse crap. All you're doing is soothing your own justifiably guilt-ridden conscience. You're still draining enormous resources for your own personal gain/pleasure through your largess in choice of vehicles. On top of that you need to clarify what you mean by biodiesel. Ask one-hundred people and probably ninety-nine would call B-001 biodiesel when all it is is adulterated petroleum fuel. And on top of that there is no such thing as carbon neutral biodiesel in the marketplace. Whatever diesel vehicle you're driving, it isn't exactly protect[ing] the environment. Maybe not damaging it to the same percentage as if you used pure petroleum diesel. But certainly not the benign, all-encompassing protect[ing] that so many people think they're doing by making a greener consumer choice. Death by close-range scatter gun or death by slow asphyxiation. Yippeee What a choice. Protect me!!! Protect me!!! I know my family is much safer in my 3/4 ton trucks, than my Geo Metro! Because I see the accidents first hand, frequently. I can safely say THE BIG VEHICLE ALWAYS WINS! Again, horse crap. A car is only as safe as the driver. And what you profess to witness first hand is not anyone win[ning]. It's everyone losing in situations with probably dozens of contributing factors, inclusive of people thinking they're invincible because their truck is bigger than everyone elses, so they don't have to pay attention to common safety practices. A large vehicle makes nothing safer and to a very large degree makes nothing necessarily more survivable. Compared the number of rollover deaths in Mini Coopers to SUVs lately? Thought not. You're all-encompassing statement wreeks at a level of conscience and consciousness and belies the little amount of thought you not only put into your remarks but your purchases as well. When I talk to other Truck and SUV owners about Bio diesel, they at times blow me off as one of those Environmental Wackos. And when you talk to someone environmentally inclined they probably (and rightfully so) blow you off as one of those folks who thinks that changing fuels is somehow a substitute for changing behavior. (Oh goodee!!! I can drive forever and a day without a care in the world now that I use biodiesel.} You see, Jay, you're other Truck and SUV associates may have
[Biofuel] biofuel, waste engine oil
Finding a good use for used engine oil, has been on my mind for a while, I came across this revolting (sorry) bit of info that someone posted on ebay as he was selling his Mercedes. He had apparently fueled it occasionally with filtered waste motoroil, which he had obtained free, or so he claimed, from service stations.The poor thing wouldn't go faster than 60 mph when fed this gourmet fuel I've been part of our forum now for a while, and surprisingly the subject hasn't come up so I've checked around, and there is an interesting piece of machinery www.clarustechnologies.com/manufacturing_services/oilcat/index.html this item apparently filters wasteoil and mixes it a preset low percentage in with the fuel, supposedly with no ill effects. Seems like a good idea to me except for the price of course, any comments or ideas.(Ihope the link works) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] biofuel, waste engine oil
Hello everyone! Finding a good use for used engine oil, has been on my mind for a while, I came across this revolting (sorry) bit of info that someone posted on ebay as he was selling his Mercedes. I know that people put 1 quart per tank into their truck as a means of disposing of their used engine oil ;) -- Patrick Campbell ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] biofuel, waste engine oil
No, no,no. First of all: Engine oil and especially used engine oil is not formulated to combust in an ordinary diesel engine. Secondly: Engine oil contains lots of additives to improve its properties, but these are there to help the oil lubricate. Some of these additives contain metals which are dangerous both from environmental and health point of view and not in the least to the engine itself. Third: A good base oil consists from long hydrocarbon chains, which are not easily combusted. These chains may leave deposits inside the engine. These deposits may be harmful to the function of the engine. The best way of dealing with used engine oil, is to burn it in a burner for high viscosity oils, and then handle the waste ashes in safe way , or just recycle the oil by cleansing it. Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: stephan torak [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; stephan torak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 10:38 AM Subject: [Biofuel] biofuel, waste engine oil Hello everyone! Finding a good use for used engine oil, has been on my mind for a while, I came across this revolting (sorry) bit of info that someone posted on ebay as he was selling his Mercedes. He had apparently fueled it occasionally with filtered waste motoroil, which he had obtained free, or so he claimed, from service stations.The poor thing wouldn't go faster than 60 mph when fed this gourmet fuel I've been part of our forum now for a while, and surprisingly the subject hasn't come up so I've checked around, and there is an interesting piece of machinery www.clarustechnologies.com/manufacturing_services/oilcat/index.html this item apparently filters wasteoil and mixes it a preset low percentage in with the fuel, supposedly with no ill effects. Seems like a good idea to me except for the price of course, any comments or ideas.(Ihope the link works) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] biofuel, waste engine oil
I take all my used oil, be it engine, or transmission oil to our local dump, now renamed recycling centre lol, well it's a step in the right direction I guess. They have a large tank you just pour it in. It's then reprocessed to be used again - a far better more efficient environmental approach to what is a finite resource, better I think than burning it. Malcolm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of stephan torak Sent: 15 April 2005 09:39 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; stephan torak Subject: [Biofuel] biofuel, waste engine oil Hello everyone! Finding a good use for used engine oil, has been on my mind for a while, I came across this revolting (sorry) bit of info that someone posted on ebay as he was selling his Mercedes. He had apparently fueled it occasionally with filtered waste motoroil, which he had obtained free, or so he claimed, from service stations.The poor thing wouldn't go faster than 60 mph when fed this gourmet fuel I've been part of our forum now for a while, and surprisingly the subject hasn't come up so I've checked around, and there is an interesting piece of machinery www.clarustechnologies.com/manufacturing_services/oilcat/index.html this item apparently filters wasteoil and mixes it a preset low percentage in with the fuel, supposedly with no ill effects. Seems like a good idea to me except for the price of course, any comments or ideas.(Ihope the link works) ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Isopropyl questions and a few other questions
hygroscopic. Although it really doesn't matter. All it is used for is acting as a cosolvent to keep the WVO and titrant miscible. http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?referred_id=778sku=8814967 If HEET is isopropanol it would have to be anhydrous or it would not be miscible with gasoline. TLC Orchids and Such wrote: There is no such thing as 100% isopropyl. 95% is the highest concentration you can get. If you were able to get 100% it would be 95% as soon as you open the bottle. It absorbs moisture from the air. Jeremy The esteemed Theo wrote: Hi everyone, Anyways I'm having trouble locating 100% isopropyl alcohol. Isopropyl alcohol for titration is HEET in the red bottle at the auto parts store. Not much there, but enough for titration. snip And lastly I found a chemical company who will sell me a 55 gallon drum of methanol for $2.60 a gallon. 2.60/gal is $143 for a 55 gal drum. That is a much better price than I paid. Sorry, no help with the lye. Thanks again everyone, Theo Chadzichristos Chris K Cayce, SC ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing
- Original Message - From: Craig Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing Snip. I know my family is much safer in my 3/4 ton trucks, than my Geo Metro! Because I see the accidents first hand, frequently. I can safely say THE BIG VEHICLE ALWAYS WINS! Again, horse crap. A car is only as safe as the driver. And what you profess to witness first hand is not anyone win[ning]. It's everyone losing in situations with probably dozens of contributing factors, inclusive of people thinking they're invincible because their truck is bigger than everyone elses, so they don't have to pay attention to common safety practices. A large vehicle makes nothing safer and to a very large degree makes nothing necessarily more survivable. Compared the number of rollover deaths in Mini Coopers to SUVs lately? Thought not. Huge freaking Snip (LOL) the first statement is fair enuff i realy dont have the facts to tell wether or not my family is more or less safe in a huge honking SUV. the fact is i FEEL that they are because i can drive like a reasonable adult and i know the limits of my SUV. (2002 Ford Excursion) yea yea i know you all hate my guts now (LOL). but take for example the news story i saw tonight.a lady was driveing the same SUV that i own and she ran smack into the rear end of a semi doing 80 mph while drinking on a residential street. she didnt make it and the semi driver still got hurt.(it was an 18 wheeler and he was pretty jacked up). to make a point here bigger is safer when you cant controll the idiots around you up to i would say 35-45mph anything over that and all that metal thats keeping you safe is going to become the debris thats ripping you in half, or more mess the jaws of life have to cut through while your slowling bleeding to death. personal note: i do not own a cell phone and i will never put an entertainment center in my auto. i pay attention when im driveing i use both hands to steer and i added a detection system to the bumpers and side guards. i had a limitor installed (65 mph) max (the local freeway speed limit) i also own a VW golf for the solo runs or anytime i dont need the mototring mamoth. ever try to park one of those things sheesh!!! (both my cars have WVO systems and i start and stop on bio D 100) not because i wanna save this or help that. its just fun to make the stuff. oh and todd in auto safety arguments allways go with the volvo LOL. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
would be blending and selling the mix already? 1 palm wrote: Hello members, The acetone post is very interesting. will it harm catalytic converter ,oxygen sensor and fuel injection system? -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing
I see the accidents first hand It seems that you've witnessed some pretty bad ones. How many of them involved an SUV/Truck vs. a Geo Metro (or equivalent)? There's a saying; it's often not the crash that kills ya, it's the sudden stop. The one thing that measures the human loss of a traffic accident in simplest terms is Force=Mass x Acceleration or F=ma. At the risk of sounding like Dr. Science, I wanted to mention this really simple equation to make a point. Buying a larger, more rigid vehicle improves your a in the equation at the expense of someone else's. So, unless you have a more utilitarian reason for owning an SUV or truck, I don't agree with the wisdom of buying such a vehicle. ...my two cents. By the way: ...in auto safety arguments always go with the Volvo -- I agree. Mike J.L.Burney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Craig Harris To: Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing Snip. I know my family is much safer in my 3/4 ton trucks, than my Geo Metro! Because I see the accidents first hand, frequently. I can safely say THE BIG VEHICLE ALWAYS WINS! Again, horse crap. A car is only as safe as the driver. And what you profess to witness first hand is not anyone win[ning]. It's everyone losing in situations with probably dozens of contributing factors, inclusive of people thinking they're invincible because their truck is bigger than everyone elses, so they don't have to pay attention to common safety practices. A large vehicle makes nothing safer and to a very large degree makes nothing necessarily more survivable. Compared the number of rollover deaths in Mini Coopers to SUVs lately? Thought not. Huge freaking Snip (LOL) the first statement is fair enuff i realy dont have the facts to tell wether or not my family is more or less safe in a huge honking SUV. the fact is i FEEL that they are because i can drive like a reasonable adult and i know the limits of my SUV. (2002 Ford Excursion) yea yea i know you all hate my guts now (LOL). but take for example the news story i saw tonight.a lady was driveing the same SUV that i own and she ran smack into the rear end of a semi doing 80 mph while drinking on a residential street. she didnt make it and the semi driver still got hurt.(it was an 18 wheeler and he was pretty jacked up). to make a point here bigger is safer when you cant controll the idiots around you up to i would say 35-45mph anything over that and all that metal thats keeping you safe is going to become the debris thats ripping you in half, or more mess the jaws of life have to cut through while your slowling bleeding to death. personal note: i do not own a cell phone and i will never put an entertainment center in my auto. i pay attention when im driveing i use both hands to steer and i added a detection system to the bumpers and side guards. i had a limitor installed (65 mph) max (the local freeway speed limit) i also own a VW golf for the solo runs or anytime i dont need the mototring mamoth. ever try to park one of those things sheesh!!! (both my cars have WVO systems and i start and stop on bio D 100) not because i wanna save this or help that. its just fun to make the stuff. oh and todd in auto safety arguments allways go with the volvo LOL. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
You're making sense Bob. Mike bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if it really worked, which I highly doubt, don't you think somebody would be blending and selling the mix already? 1 palm wrote: Hello members, The acetone post is very interesting. will it harm catalytic converter ,oxygen sensor and fuel injection system? -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
Except that the petro industry doesn't really have any interest in you getting better mileage. They certainly aren't telling us any ways to send them less money. $.02, Ken Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: You're making sense Bob. bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if it really worked, which I highly doubt, don't you think somebody would be blending and selling the mix already? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
sell more gas if they could advertise it as providing 30 % better mileage. They could even a couple of cents to the price and be ahead on cost/distance. enny Dunn wrote: Except that the petro industry doesn't really have any interest in you getting better mileage. They certainly aren't telling us any ways to send them less money. $.02, Ken Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: You're making sense Bob. bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if it really worked, which I highly doubt, don't you think somebody would be blending and selling the mix already? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
re: [Biofuel] Article from deseretnews.com
NOTE FROM SENDER: This news is somewhat troublesome ... we'll have to see how far the government goes with this, but it's scary (VERY scary) to think that instead of using the current oil situation to start moving beyond dependence on fossil fuels and developing renewables, the government is hungrily looking for more oil reserves tam VAST 'OIL' RESERVES IN UTAH MAY TEMPT FEDS TO HELP OUT Utah, Colorado and Wyoming sit on a massive fortune in untapped oil -- maybe more oil than in the Middle East -- if they could just figure out a way to harvest it. FULL STORY: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1%2C1249%2C600125803%2C00.html Just a little insight into this area. I was born and raised in Grand Junction. I remember after the oil shocks of the 70s this area was a boom for Oil Shale research and potential extraction. However, when the oil prices dropped back down interest fell and the oil companies fled leaving the region in a very depressed state. I think the extraction process comes out with a very little net gain if not a net loss of energy. The shale deposits are held up in mountains. In order to extract the oil they would basically have to dig up the mountains to process the shale leaving a destroyed landscape, devastating the habitat, and creating mining waste that would all but kill western Colorado and eastern Utah. Also, I can recall that the oil companies have a fair estimate of how much oil is actually trapped and it is truly a staggering amount. Looking at this article they are obviously holding back the amount of information they really have. -dave ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
I doubt the independent retailers know about, or care about fuel efficiency steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bob allen Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 10:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35% there are a lot of independent retailers out there who would love to sell more gas if they could advertise it as providing 30 % better mileage. They could even a couple of cents to the price and be ahead on cost/distance. enny Dunn wrote: Except that the petro industry doesn't really have any interest in you getting better mileage. They certainly aren't telling us any ways to send them less money. $.02, Ken Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: You're making sense Bob. bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if it really worked, which I highly doubt, don't you think somebody would be blending and selling the mix already? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
Hi Bob, Everything you're saying sounds very reasonable. But, sometimes the conspiracy theorist in me keeps coming out. Do you think that the oil industry has enough political horsepower to influence the possibility of this happening -- even if it works? Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself and should find out if the idea actually works. I'm not trying to sound facetious. These are just a couple of things I'm wondering about. Mike bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there are a lot of independent retailers out there who would love to sell more gas if they could advertise it as providing 30 % better mileage. They could even a couple of cents to the price and be ahead on cost/distance. enny Dunn wrote: Except that the petro industry doesn't really have any interest in you getting better mileage. They certainly aren't telling us any ways to send them less money. $.02, Ken Michael Redler said: You're making sense Bob. bob allen wrote: if it really worked, which I highly doubt, don't you think somebody would be blending and selling the mix already? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
Mike bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if it really worked, which I highly doubt, don't you think somebody would be blending and selling the mix already? Why don't you tell us why you doubt it Bob? I'm sure that would be appreciated. I'm afraid I have no such faith in the magic of the marketplace or whatever, if it worked they would be doing it already. Maybe, maybe not, and since discussion of it so far hasn't quite ruled out that it might work (yet), it's good to see someone here setting out to test it, as D.V. Subramanian plans to do in Chennai: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/46029/ Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35% I hope D.V. keeps us informed, then we'll know. If it does work at all, then 1 palm's questions are good ones. Regards Keith 1 palm wrote: Hello members, The acetone post is very interesting. will it harm catalytic converter ,oxygen sensor and fuel injection system? -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Fwd: Re: bioenergy from a C mass balance perspective
Discussion Group (SANET). - Keith Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:38:36 -0400 From: Frank Teuton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: bioenergy from a C mass balance perspective To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Joel, and others following this thread, I'd like to take a stab at this, if I might. It seems like what you are saying is, that in any given ecosystem the potential to conserve C is such that additional increments of C will at some point not be conserved, when a saturation point is achieved. Presumably this applies to relatively aerated solid state soil ecosystems, as peat bogs for example seem to just keep on salting away the C... So a hardwood forest managed for biomass (and perhaps lumber) would keep on producing a surplus while having optimized (maximized?) soil C sequestration (abbreviate to C-questration? ;-); since no tillage is involved, the basic system remains intact, needing only good management and well designed and used harvesting methods to continue on indefinitely. Variations are available such as coppicing, particular cultivars, etc. OK, now on to the meat of the matter, typical agricultural soils, such as might be used for growing corn, soybeans, etc. In times gone by, of course, farms grew most of their own energy in the form of hay and pasture, capturing this energy for use by animal traction, horses and oxen. The waste products of such biological internal combustion were known for their fertilizer value, and the horses could often be pleasant companions and make baby horses...they could also kick like the devil, eh? ;-) That diversified, animal powered farm could serve as a benchmark for energy efficiency and sustainability. Modern technology such as wind and solar (in new, more efficient forms) could be added, as well as improved insulation in the housing and farm buildings, etc. But, as a basic horse and buggy benchmark of how sustainable could be done, it is worth bouncing some numbers off of, don't you think? However, such farms didn't sell that much energy back to the rest of society...or did they? When horses were the ticket, wasn't the hay farm-grown and sold to the non farm horse users? In any case, the diversified farm of old can be a baseline, and the usefulness of hay and pasture crops means we can include them in long term rotations to help restore soil C, as well as fueling our energy beings...;-)(insert lowing, neighing and donkey braying here for sound effects.) Well, that was the 19th century, before the great oil boom. Now, as we head to the finish line of the great fossil fuels carbon blowout sale, the question of what's next rears its head---what will a sustainable world energy system look like, and how will agriculture be adapted to it? Can we grow and harvest biomass for energy, how much, and what are the most sustainable ways to do it? Obviously the answer is yes, we've already done it with the baseline diversified farm, hay and pasture for our horses, oxen, etc, firewood for our hearths, and so forth...can we upgrade this to cleaner, higher production energy while achieving optimal C levels in the soil? What crops and methods should we focus on, which new practices adopt, and which old practices modify or abandon? If we can choose between a system that averages steady state 3% SOM and is productive, how much productivity should we sacrifice to get to a 6% SOM level, or more? How much is that C-questration really worth? Or, do we really need to sacrifice anything? If we can find a way to rely mostly on perennial crops, such as the traditional woodlot, hay and pasture, or the 'holy grail' of Wes Jackson's New Roots for Agriculture research, perennial seed and grain crops, then SOM will arguably take care of itself. If we can reduce reliance on annual crops that require tillage (or herbicides) and only operate within shortened time frames of the potential growing season, it seems logical to me that we can optimize C capture generally, and C-quester it in the perennial soil system, in plant material (eg wood), or use it for bioenergy. That would still leave us with the question of how to manage the remaining acreage of annual crops, and here I eagerly await Joel's comments on the relative merits of composting versus other methods of returning organic residues to the soil. Frank Teuton -Original Message- From: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joel Gruver Sent: 11 avril 2005 15:20 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [SANET-MG] bioenergy from a C mass balance perspective Hello folks, As we discuss the impacts of using crop residues or other organic materials for energy purposes (as compared to soil amendment), it is important to evaluate possible scenarios from a C mass balance perspective. The functional benefits of SOM (nutrient storage, structural stabilization, water holding capacity, nourishing of soil organisms...) are well documented and widely appreciated... in
Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
--- 1 palm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello members, The acetone post is very interesting. will it harm catalytic converter ,oxygen sensor and fuel injection system? oilpalm1 subramanian D.V [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello members, The information below came in one of the Emails. http://pesn.com/2005/03/ 17/6900069_Acetone/ Acetone In Fuel Said to Increase Mileage 15-35% Readily-available chemical added to gas tank in small proportion improves the fuel's ability to vaporize completely by eliminating the surface tension that causes some particulates to note fully vaporize. by Louis LaPointe Adapted by Sterling D. Allan with LaPoint's permission for Pure Energy Systems News Acetone (CH3COCH3), also called dimethylketone or propanone, is a product that can be purchased inexpensively in most locations around the world, such as in the common hardware store. Added to the fuel tank in tiny amounts, it aids in the vaporization of the gasoline or diesel, increasing fuel efficiency, engine longevity, and performance -- as well as reducing hydrocarbon emissions How Much to Use Add in tiny amounts from about one part per 5000 to one part per 500, depending on the vehicle -- just a few ounces per ten gallons of gas than demand·. I have never seen a problem with acetone, and I have used ACETONE in gasoline and diesel fuel and in jet fuel (JP-4) for 50 years. See also Acetone as a Fuel Additive (index at PESWiki) Fuel The qty of acetone to be mixed with petrol works out 2cc to 20 cc per 10 litres of petrol. The PESWiki link mentioned does not give any guidance about the mixing ratio. I am about to try this on our family car . Acetone is available in the local chemicals market in 2 qualities-- commercial quality at the lower price equivalent of 2 U.S.dollars a litre and the one for laboratory use at 6 dollars a litre. Could any of the members of this forum tell me the difference between commercial quality and laboratory quality acetone? Does the ratio mentioned above for mixing with gasoline apply to commercial or lab quality acetone? Anybody else had the same positive result ? Regards, D.V.Subramanian. Chennai, India . No acetone is very volatile. It will vaporize before it gets to catalytic converter. People pour it on their nails t remove nail varnish. It should not harm anything fox - Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing
because i can drive like a reasonable adult and i know the limits of my SUV. That's what everyone says. But the death tolls keep climbing. There must be an error in that sort of logic somewhere or there would be far fewer grave markers. yea yea i know you all hate my guts now (LOL Sorry. (Although I don't know why an apology would be in order.) You don't know any such thing. Maybe your thought processes are partially out of joint. Maybe your predilection with self-indulgence is a bit disconcerting. But it takes a grand bit more to generate hate. Chances are after two beers have started to liberate some of those thought processes of your's I'd move to another seat at the pub. But that's about where it stops. i also own a VW golf for the solo runs or anytime i dont need the mototring mamoth. ever try to park one of those things sheesh!!! (both my cars have WVO systems and i start and stop on bio D 100) not because i wanna save this or help that. its just fun to make the stuff. A fair number of ammended remarks remarks in this post. If your previous post were left to stand on its own merits, it wouldn't. And in large part the portions you've left unaddressed or rationalized away with feeling still don't. i had a limitor installed (65 mph) max Uh-huh... :-). Patch job at best. What about fixing the factory linkage that runs from your foot to your brain? Ever wonder what might happen if you were thirty miles from nowhere and had to get an accident victim to the hospital before he or she bled to death? Let me guess..., there's an override on it. :-) Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Craig Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing Snip. I know my family is much safer in my 3/4 ton trucks, than my Geo Metro! Because I see the accidents first hand, frequently. I can safely say THE BIG VEHICLE ALWAYS WINS! Again, horse crap. A car is only as safe as the driver. And what you profess to witness first hand is not anyone win[ning]. It's everyone losing in situations with probably dozens of contributing factors, inclusive of people thinking they're invincible because their truck is bigger than everyone elses, so they don't have to pay attention to common safety practices. A large vehicle makes nothing safer and to a very large degree makes nothing necessarily more survivable. Compared the number of rollover deaths in Mini Coopers to SUVs lately? Thought not. Huge freaking Snip (LOL) the first statement is fair enuff i realy dont have the facts to tell wether or not my family is more or less safe in a huge honking SUV. the fact is i FEEL that they are because i can drive like a reasonable adult and i know the limits of my SUV. (2002 Ford Excursion) yea yea i know you all hate my guts now (LOL). but take for example the news story i saw tonight.a lady was driveing the same SUV that i own and she ran smack into the rear end of a semi doing 80 mph while drinking on a residential street. she didnt make it and the semi driver still got hurt.(it was an 18 wheeler and he was pretty jacked up). to make a point here bigger is safer when you cant controll the idiots around you up to i would say 35-45mph anything over that and all that metal thats keeping you safe is going to become the debris thats ripping you in half, or more mess the jaws of life have to cut through while your slowling bleeding to death. personal note: i do not own a cell phone and i will never put an entertainment center in my auto. i pay attention when im driveing i use both hands to steer and i added a detection system to the bumpers and side guards. i had a limitor installed (65 mph) max (the local freeway speed limit) i also own a VW golf for the solo runs or anytime i dont need the mototring mamoth. ever try to park one of those things sheesh!!! (both my cars have WVO systems and i start and stop on bio D 100) not because i wanna save this or help that. its just fun to make the stuff. oh and todd in auto safety arguments allways go with the volvo LOL. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Diesel from wood/biomass
Hi, The readers of both lists might be interested in this (which I don't think I'd seen until I read an article in the FAZ this morning: http://www.faz.net/s/Rub9E75B460C0744F8695B3E0BE5A30A620/Doc~E8F0A7144F0C349C8B1D941C61809617E~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html Choren has got a process running which extracts biodiesel (well, a biodiesel-type fuel) directly from woody biomass. Thanks, Sam -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
a century now right? And folks have been burning anything and everything that will flow thru a tube. I can't imagine that others haven't tried all sorts of mixtures already. also, more mileage is achieved by getting more energy out of your fuel. This would suggest that a significant amount of fuel is not burning, thus going out the tail pipe. Uncombusted hydrocarbons are easily measured in tailpipe emissions, and don't add up to the energy losses which must be occurring if acetone is to help that much. 2. again consider the source: http://pureenergysystems.com/ is one of the sources touting the efficacy of acetone/gasoline. also on the site are magnetic motors, Mann was hoping to come upon a way to use the entire magnetic force for motive power. However, this present design requires at least half of the magnet power to be used to counter-act one magnet with another, the remaining is tappable for power. He doesn't think more than that can be tapped. Perhaps someone will show him wrong someday, even as he is showing the present models of physics to be incorrect. and overunity devices: He reports a 30 to 1 overunity ratio with piezoelectric sonoluminescence. The higher the power you put in, the more you get out. if just one of these guys ever started selling power to the grid, I would believe it. I know this has nothing to do with acetone/gasoline but everything to do with credibility. 3. gasoline has a very low surface tension, and I doubt that acetone will lower it any significant amount. 4. the fuel value and vapor pressure of acetone are both lower than gasoline. 5. I have seen no supporting evidence other than relatively uncontrolled tests by individuals sticking it in and watching their mileage for a few tanks. Ie, I an not swayed by the testing so far. Disclaimer: if somebody proves me wrong by reproducible testing on a dynamometer, I will do everything I can to promote its use. In fact I really do believe that people would pay for a fuel mixture which provided 30% better millage. This could reduce oil imports to the usa by millions of barrels per day, reduce carbon emissions by the megaton, etc. Hell, in a country that cared, ie just about anywhere but the us, use of acetone would suffice to meet kyoto agreement goals. You would think that somebody would have tested and published. an hour or two on a test engine with proper controls should yield an answer. Any automotive engineering students out their? You can be famous overnight! but I really just don't think so. Keith Addison wrote: Why don't you tell us why you doubt it Bob? I'm sure that would be appreciated. -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] End of cheap oil is a blessing
Whether we walk, pedal, moped, motorcycle, drive a light duty vehicle such as a car, SUV, pickup or van our chances of survival from a collision with a 100,000 pound semi truck and trailer rig rolling down the road don't seem particularly good and less so at a railroad crossing. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
post: the vapor pressure of acetone is greater than that of gasoline. (not that it matters really) -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] US Takes the Lead in Trashing Planet
Maybe this is slightly off-topic, but I was thinking lately and decided to do some calculations. Basically, there's a lot of talk about excess CO2 (and not without reason), but CO2 is quite natural and humans make it too, of course. I decided I would try to calculate the CO2 contribution from human breathing and the result is, I think, at least interesting. If you think my calculations or facts are off, let me know. I just used figures that were readily available online. 0.037 grams per breath (http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/pns/faq_othr.html) 16 breaths per minute (http://www.fpnotebook.com/LUN54.htm) 5 billion person increase in world population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population) (since 1800, which was somewhat of a turning point). =42,048,000,000,000,000 extra breaths per year. =1,555,776,000,000,000 extra grams of CO2 per year =1,555,776,000,000 extra kilograms of CO2 per year =1,714,949,482 extra tons of CO2 per year =1.7 billion extra tons of CO2 per year Nature makes 150 billion tons of CO2, absorbs 154 billion tons. Humans make 7.1 billion tons http://www.vtearthinstitute.org/carbonwksht.html. Human excess is therefore 3.1 billion tons. Therefore breathing makes up 55% of the excess CO2 per year (24% of all human emissions) One may think this argument is silly (and feel free to criticize - especially if the facts are off. However, if the facts are off, please cite sources for correct facts!) However, this leads me to think that since so much CO2 production is unavoidable (breathing is a right:-)), maybe we should focus on increasing CO2 absorption instead of decreasing output. Any thoughts on why there is so little press/attention for increasing absorption? I read somewhere (I can't remember where anymore - if someone else heard of this, maybe you have a source), that increasing the amount of soil of the roots of trees causes the tree to absorb more CO2. Or in the last 50 years, the world lost 1.3 billions acres of rain forest (http://tropicalhardwoods.com/htm/main/tropical_rainforests.htm). At least in the north east US, an acre of 125 year old forest absorbs 2 tons of CO2 per year. That's a decrease of 2.6 billion tons per year of absorption, but I'd imagine more, since the rainforest seems to be a little more robust than an oldish New England forest (for the non-Americans here, New England is the name of a group of 5 states in the northeastern USA). So rainforest destruction alone could account for perhaps the entire excess of CO2 produced each year. I've rambled enough. Thoughts? Critiques? Comments? -Michael - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:46 PM Subject: [Biofuel] US Takes the Lead in Trashing Planet http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0413-22.htm Published on Wednesday, April 13, 2005 by the Boston Globe US Takes the Lead in Trashing Planet by Derrick Z. Jackson For more than four years, President Bush has told us he needs to see the ''sound science on global warming before joining the rest of the world in combating it. In June 2001, he brushed off criticism of his pullout from the Kyoto Protocol, saying: ''It was not based upon science. The stated mandates in the Kyoto treaty would affect our economy in a negative way. A year later, Bush's own Environmental Protection Agency put out a report that the burning of fossil fuels in the human activities of industry and automobiles are huge contributors to the greenhouse effect. He publicly trashed the report, embarrassing then-EPA administrator Christine Todd Whitman, saying, ''I read the report put out by the bureaucracy. Now comes a new study, by a bureaucracy representing just about the whole planet. It is the Millennium Ecosystem Assessment, commissioned by the United Nations in 2000 at a cost of $24 million and compiled by 1,360 experts from 95 countries. It is the latest in dire reports as to how we are doing the planet in and, implicitly, how the United States puts its interests and pollution over the welfare of the rest of the planet. The report said human beings, whose numbers have doubled to 6 billion, have changed the world's ecosystems more in the last 50 years than in any other period in our pursuit of food, fuel, water, and wood products. More land was converted to agriculture since World War II than in the 18th and 19th centuries combined. Those conversions, aggravated by the use of synthetic nitrogen fertilizers, have led to 10 to 30 percent of mammal, bird, and amphibian species facing the threat of extinction. Highlights of what we have already lost in the last 50 years include: 20 percent of the world's coral reefs, with another 20 percent seriously degraded, and 35 percent of the world's mangroves. The dilemma is that many of the changes in agricultural, fishing, and industrial technology have had incredible benefits for human beings, including the reduction of
Re: [Biofuel] Diesel from wood/biomass
Very interesting biomass project which has geen future ./ Biomass production can create rural jobs sd Pannir On 4/15/05, Sam Critchley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, The readers of both lists might be interested in this (which I don't think I'd seen until I read an article in the FAZ this morning: http://www.faz.net/s/Rub9E75B460C0744F8695B3E0BE5A30A620/Doc~E8F0A7144F0C349C8B1D941C61809617E~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html Choren has got a process running which extracts biodiesel (well, a biodiesel-type fuel) directly from woody biomass. Thanks, Sam -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- Pagandai V Pannirselvam Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN Departamento de Engenharia Qumica - DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CT Programa de Ps Graduao em Engenharia Qumica - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitrio CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence : Av Odilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 Capim Macio EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 215-3770 Ramal20 2171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 215-3770 Ramal20 2171557 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Re: Diesel from wood/biomass
Hi, The readers of both lists might be interested in this (which I don't think I'd seen until I read an article in the FAZ this morning: http://www.faz.net/s/Rub9E75B460C0744F8695B3E0BE5A30A620/Doc~E8F0A714 4F0C349C8B1D941C61809617E~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html Choren has got a process running which extracts biodiesel (well, a biodiesel-type fuel) directly from woody biomass. Thanks, Sam We've had quite a lot about it, and quite a lot more about the Fischer-Tropsch process in general. These are about Choren: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/26862/ 2003-08-03 World's First CO2-neutral Designer Diesel Fuel Presented http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/32898/ 2004-03-18 Re: [biofuel] Sunoil better than biodiesel http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/45417/ 2005-03-31 DaimlerChrysler emphasizes synthetic diesel commitment And this is a critique of at least some applications of it posted yesterday (there are other critiques in the list archives): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/46042/ 2005-04-15 Plan to Turn Garbage into Oil The dawn of a new era for automotove fuels? The Fischer-Tropsch process converts synthesis gas to oxycarbon alcohols or into synfuel hydrocarbons (syn-gasoline, diesel, jet fuel), first made by coal gasification processes. It's not exactly new. It was invented in 1917 by German synthetic fuels scientists and used by Hitler to provide fuel for the Nazis in WW2. This is from an earlier post (14 Nov 2002): One of our oldest scientists, now 84 yrs. old, was responsible for going into Germany post WWII and uncovering the remains of Hitler's synthetic fuels machine which had been bombed out. I'm speaking of Fischer-Tropsch oily-based paraffins which are hydrocracked down into shorter chains for synthetic gasoline, jet fuel and diesel. He brought back some of the original German scientists who'd perfected this technology which utilized coarse, low-grade brown German coal as feedstock. Three times he tried to start-up an American version of synthetic hydrocarbon fuels in the GTL arena and was blocked. As the highest ranking American energy technologist post WWII, he couldn't figure this out. It was over 20 years later that he realized that the late John Rockefeller of Standard Oil [Exxon] had been the politic behind the scenes, making sure that his new, alternative fuel ideas did not materialize. This scientist then took his blueprints for the first major GTL project and gave them to Sasol who built his first coal gasification device back in 1953 and it is still operating today. Sasol from South Africa is the oldest synthetic fuels producer globally. And here's a more recent message about what Sasol achieved with it: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/45491/ 2005-04-01 Re: [Biofuel] when will it run out As for woody biomass, that can also produce syngas, or producer gas - in fact all you need is the wood, not $400 million or something for a Fischer-Tropsch plant: See: Wood gas: http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html#woodgas Nothing new under the sun - including Sundiesel. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Acetone in fuel increases mileage by 15 -35%
You got attacked the other day for a critique of the source rather than the content, but I really disagree with that. The source is not always relevant, but it's certainly relevant sometimes, and it's worth pointing out this time, thanks. We reach similar conclusions - I don't think it's very likely either, but it would be good to see some tests. Preferably a dynamometer, sure, but if someone here did it and watched their mileage for a few tanks that would be interesting. Best wishes Keith 1. Spark ignition internal combustion engines have been around for about a century now right? And folks have been burning anything and everything that will flow thru a tube. I can't imagine that others haven't tried all sorts of mixtures already. also, more mileage is achieved by getting more energy out of your fuel. This would suggest that a significant amount of fuel is not burning, thus going out the tail pipe. Uncombusted hydrocarbons are easily measured in tailpipe emissions, and don't add up to the energy losses which must be occurring if acetone is to help that much. 2. again consider the source: http://pureenergysystems.com/ is one of the sources touting the efficacy of acetone/gasoline. also on the site are magnetic motors, Mann was hoping to come upon a way to use the entire magnetic force for motive power. However, this present design requires at least half of the magnet power to be used to counter-act one magnet with another, the remaining is tappable for power. He doesn't think more than that can be tapped. Perhaps someone will show him wrong someday, even as he is showing the present models of physics to be incorrect. and overunity devices: He reports a 30 to 1 overunity ratio with piezoelectric sonoluminescence. The higher the power you put in, the more you get out. if just one of these guys ever started selling power to the grid, I would believe it. I know this has nothing to do with acetone/gasoline but everything to do with credibility. 3. gasoline has a very low surface tension, and I doubt that acetone will lower it any significant amount. 4. the fuel value and vapor pressure of acetone are both lower than gasoline. 5. I have seen no supporting evidence other than relatively uncontrolled tests by individuals sticking it in and watching their mileage for a few tanks. Ie, I an not swayed by the testing so far. Disclaimer: if somebody proves me wrong by reproducible testing on a dynamometer, I will do everything I can to promote its use. In fact I really do believe that people would pay for a fuel mixture which provided 30% better millage. This could reduce oil imports to the usa by millions of barrels per day, reduce carbon emissions by the megaton, etc. Hell, in a country that cared, ie just about anywhere but the us, use of acetone would suffice to meet kyoto agreement goals. You would think that somebody would have tested and published. an hour or two on a test engine with proper controls should yield an answer. Any automotive engineering students out their? You can be famous overnight! but I really just don't think so. Keith Addison wrote: Why don't you tell us why you doubt it Bob? I'm sure that would be appreciated. -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Next Oil War?
From: Keith Addison The Next Oil War? . China, driven by its rising internal demand for oil supplies, now looks at Taiwan not only as an nationalist issue, but as as a strategic necessity. Effective possession of Taiwan would help secure 80 percent of Chinese oil supply routes. I though they just signed some big business aqgreement with India (unlike MG Rover who they've just left high and dry in some possible agreement with Shanghi Automotive)? JD2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] US Takes the Lead in Trashing Planet
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison Subject: [Biofuel] US Takes the Lead in Trashing Planet If the American people vito bush and decide go green you would have a best case scenario rather than one of the worst case scenarios on the planet. JD2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
