Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Brian, so I guess you were never the cadillac-man type? This is your situation. You've got yourself a Caddy of a PH Tester. Enjoy. Michael Lendzian CINS Network Support Team Columbus State University CINS/Center for Commerce Technology Room 105 706.569.3044 (help desk) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
I'd say that is a sweet deal! Do you have a calibration solution to verify the probe is not screwed? I work in a university and I wouldn't be surprised at all to grab a fine instrument and find out someone had demoed the probe and not said a word. It would be a good idea to verify it first. Don't be tempted to put that expensive probe in the biodiesel though or you may have to replace it! Joe Brian Rodgers wrote: Holy cow! I asked for it and I received a doozy. The pH meter the university lent me is a bit of overkill I should think. Tell me what you think. Sitting here on my desk is a Texas Instruments TI-83 Plus Silver edition. I already figured out to turn it on and off, pretty good, hey! It has a manual on CD five firewire ports and a fancy probe sitting in its own bath. AM I in for it with this thing? I mean, I want to do a good titration but really??? Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
A pH meter using a Ti-83? I never heard of such a thing, not surprising, I'll need to look into that. I've got a TI-83 Plus collecting dust at the moment. Time to Google I guess. David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:33 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale Holy cow! I asked for it and I received a doozy. The pH meter the university lent me is a bit of overkill I should think. Tell me what you think. Sitting here on my desk is a Texas Instruments TI-83 Plus Silver edition. I already figured out to turn it on and off, pretty good, hey! It has a manual on CD five firewire ports and a fancy probe sitting in its own bath. AM I in for it with this thing? I mean, I want to do a good titration but really??? Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Thanks everyone for the replies. Yes it is a Ti-83 with a Vernier LabPro attachment. This is only the second time I have had it out of the box so I still know little about how to use it. Today I have two other projects I need to do while daylight is burning. First I have harvested two dozen beautiful cedar posts from our forest. In an attempt to get our ranch more sustainable I will be making more products from our main resource, trees. I have been using an old timey draw knife to debark the cedar posts. This is unheard of around here, most of the ranchers now use steel posts. Steel posts are imported to this part of the US and for all I know they all come from China. The heck with that. Back when the ranchers did use wooden posts here in the southwest unpeeled cedar posts were employed. Cedar is a great wood for posts as it has lasting qualities not found in other wood found locally. We have found that the wood borers like to get under the bark and begin to deteriorate the wood quickly, Thus cedar lasts about ten tears in the ground. Anyway, we have been peeling the posts which is tough because our cedar is quite bracnhy. I worked out a rig for holding the posts while I use the small chainsaw to smooth the sides. The drawknife then slips through the bark fairly easily. The second part of my project today is tied nicely to the first, I worked out a trade with a local organic gardener in posts for garlic for planting. He has fantastic growth of garlic during the last five years and he lives up in the mountains just like us. Boy howdy, I guaranty you haven't tasted garlic this hot and spicy. So, we are totally inspired to expand our garden next Spring to include a large patch of garlic. Planting time for garlic is now, he says. He has invited me to come to his place this afternoon and learn. I will bring the posts which he needs to build a deer proof fence as a second line of defense from the deer, on the way back we will stop be the local purebred horse ranch where they give away manure which has no hay or weed seed because they have rubber mats in the stalls for the fancy horses. It is our plan to mix the manure with wood chips from our forest and begin a large scale compost pile for next Spring. Yep I am going to be a regular farmer not just a tree farmer! How scatterbrained is this? Sorry Keith. Just teasing. This evening I will break out the book for the TI-83 and see how to use it. In the kit there are several probes, the one I am interested i is a pH sensor p# PH-BTA. Now that I look at this manual it has about fifty sensors available, starting with a 3-axis Accelerometer...Radiation monitor... Magnetic field sensor... Light sensor.. O2 Gas sensor, pretty much a you name it, they got it. Sincerely, Brian Rodgers On 10/21/05, David Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A pH meter using a Ti-83? I never heard of such a thing, not surprising, I'll need to look into that. I've got a TI-83 Plus collecting dust at the moment. Time to Google I guess. David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:33 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale Holy cow! I asked for it and I received a doozy. The pH meter the university lent me is a bit of overkill I should think. Tell me what you think. Sitting here on my desk is a Texas Instruments TI-83 Plus Silver edition. I already figured out to turn it on and off, pretty good, hey! It has a manual on CD five firewire ports and a fancy probe sitting in its own bath. AM I in for it with this thing? I mean, I want to do a good titration but really??? Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
I found some sites selling the individual Vernier probes and sensors. They are more than I expected them to be ($79 - pH Meter probe) but you can get free software. Educational products have always been unreasonably overpriced as far a I can tell. Competition must be next to nil in the field. David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 12:28 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale Thanks everyone for the replies. Yes it is a Ti-83 with a Vernier LabPro attachment. This is only the second time I have had it out of the box so I still know little about how to use it. Today I have two other projects I need to do while daylight is burning. First I have harvested two dozen beautiful cedar posts from our forest. In an attempt to get our ranch more sustainable I will be making more products from our main resource, trees. I have been using an old timey draw knife to debark the cedar posts. This is unheard of around here, most of the ranchers now use steel posts. Steel posts are imported to this part of the US and for all I know they all come from China. The heck with that. Back when the ranchers did use wooden posts here in the southwest unpeeled cedar posts were employed. Cedar is a great wood for posts as it has lasting qualities not found in other wood found locally. We have found that the wood borers like to get under the bark and begin to deteriorate the wood quickly, Thus cedar lasts about ten tears in the ground. Anyway, we have been peeling the posts which is tough because our cedar is quite bracnhy. I worked out a rig for holding the posts while I use the small chainsaw to smooth the sides. The drawknife then slips through the bark fairly easily. The second part of my project today is tied nicely to the first, I worked out a trade with a local organic gardener in posts for garlic for planting. He has fantastic growth of garlic during the last five years and he lives up in the mountains just like us. Boy howdy, I guaranty you haven't tasted garlic this hot and spicy. So, we are totally inspired to expand our garden next Spring to include a large patch of garlic. Planting time for garlic is now, he says. He has invited me to come to his place this afternoon and learn. I will bring the posts which he needs to build a deer proof fence as a second line of defense from the deer, on the way back we will stop be the local purebred horse ranch where they give away manure which has no hay or weed seed because they have rubber mats in the stalls for the fancy horses. It is our plan to mix the manure with wood chips from our forest and begin a large scale compost pile for next Spring. Yep I am going to be a regular farmer not just a tree farmer! How scatterbrained is this? Sorry Keith. Just teasing. This evening I will break out the book for the TI-83 and see how to use it. In the kit there are several probes, the one I am interested i is a pH sensor p# PH-BTA. Now that I look at this manual it has about fifty sensors available, starting with a 3-axis Accelerometer...Radiation monitor... Magnetic field sensor... Light sensor.. O2 Gas sensor, pretty much a you name it, they got it. Sincerely, Brian Rodgers On 10/21/05, David Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A pH meter using a Ti-83? I never heard of such a thing, not surprising, I'll need to look into that. I've got a TI-83 Plus collecting dust at the moment. Time to Google I guess. David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:33 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale Holy cow! I asked for it and I received a doozy. The pH meter the university lent me is a bit of overkill I should think. Tell me what you think. Sitting here on my desk is a Texas Instruments TI-83 Plus Silver edition. I already figured out to turn it on and off, pretty good, hey! It has a manual on CD five firewire ports and a fancy probe sitting in its own bath. AM I in for it with this thing? I mean, I want to do a good titration but really??? Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists. or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists. org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
And unions haven't caused problems? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 22:39 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale Please don't shop at WarMart! Despite the problems with the labour movement, i think all of us progressives on this list would agree the hostility shown by WarMart against organized labour is downright unacceptable. At least up here in kanada ie, a Quebec WarMart store's employees voted this past summer to unionize, so the store simply closed down KF ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Holy cow! I asked for it and I received a doozy. The pH meter the university lent me is a bit of overkill I should think. Tell me what you think. Sitting here on my desk is a Texas Instruments TI-83 Plus Silver edition. I already figured out to turn it on and off, pretty good, hey! It has a manual on CD five firewire ports and a fancy probe sitting in its own bath. AM I in for it with this thing? I mean, I want to do a good titration but really??? Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Hello Brian I knew I should have kept my mouth shut. Hehe Sorry I am being silly again. Keith you do have a great web site and now that you have explained the layered information technique I will go back again and read it all again. I actually knew there was a great depth to the JTF site because every time I ask a question you quickly respond with a link to another information pool I had overlooked. You are absolutely right, there is a lot of info there and when combined with this email list it is all coming together for me. I take full responsibility for my words and more so for my actions. With this in mind, can I blame the skipping of titration of the WVO, on my wife, the ex-science teacher? :-) You'll have to ask her about that. I try not to bother you all with excerpts from my daily newsletter. You're welcome, when you've posted them before I don't think it bothered anybody, probably enjoyed them, I enjoyed what I read (not all, sorry, it's difficult to keep up right now). You're being selective about it. I use my writing as a catch all to keep friends and family informed of what we are doing. Having not posted most of my daily chronicle you of course don't get to see the summations of what I have learned here. Somehow I guess I am saying that all you see are the questions I post as I am knee deep in this.For instance in my newsletter I made note of all of our short comings many of which you noted that day. Okay, that makes sense to me. After rereading this morning's newsletter I don't believe there is anything there that would shed any light on my thinking (or lack thereof) on this topic. Thank goodness I didn't post my verbose newsletter, right? Basically, I state that I have a lot of respect for you and will listen and learn. Thankyou! The Biofuel list is an info medium and so is your newsletter. I think media have a purpose and a function, you aim them at something and then you work them to have an effect. I've thought for a long time that local media, eg the local rag and the local radio station, and informal media like 'zines and so on, are more interesting and useful than the big national media, in a way at least. The Biofuel list is global but its target is local, and frankly I'm probably more impressed that it reaches your network via your newsletter than I would be if it hit the NY Times. Don't let it go to your head,keep being selective! LOL! I know that precision is better and I need to get prepared for this weekend's chem-lab.project. I will look in a pet store for the Phenolphthalein. I have graduated syringes and pipettes. A triple beam scale is on the way. I looked at the Salvation Army next store and they have a blender for $15.00. Better! On another thread called White lye I see that my lye may be questionale too. I followed the link http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye . I was wondering what the dark colored particles in my lye were. After reading your description I beleive I have aluminum in there. Probably so if it's just drain-cleaner, lye on steroids. So, I now have to find a source for clean lye. That's all I have time for Keith. I know this isn't much after your wonderful letter. :-) I'm glad you liked it. I guess I want you to know that I do have something going on. Here's to a good wind behind your sails. Thank you for your patience. About information layering and comprehension and so on, I said most people seem to get it. We receive all this feedback all the time, quite a lot of it's from folks doing biofuels or biodiesel. But there's no way of extrapolating backwards from feedback to get a true picture of how people are using your information, even when website stats show you where they go at your site and how long they spend there. It's just a guess. The numbers are big though, so it's probably not such a bad guess. (Currently around half a million visitors a month, 1.5 million page views.) For instance, a new list member just joined, via JtF, not a newbie. He's been making biodiesel for six months, he didn't have to ask anybody, he just started at the beginning, tripped up a couple of times with the first batches, did some re-reading, got it right, moved on to the two-stage methods and now he uses the Foolproof acid-base method. We often hear this, I reckon he's fairly typical. I think most people do get it about accessing the information and most are able to use the biodiesel information as a course they can do by themselves, and they learn how to make good biodiesel, but we only ever hear about it from just a small proportion of them. On the other hand some people are really hard to help, and I don't have any clear idea of how many of them there might be either. Take for example the leading candidate for this week's Vivian O'Blivion Commemoration Award for Achievement in Failing to Notice the Blindingly Obvious, who had definitely visited the biodiesel section of the JtF website, and sent this
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Thank you so much Keith The final line in your previous letter gave me a full blown laugh out loud as I was getting ready for work. On the other hand some people are really hard to help, and I don't have any clear idea of how many of them there might be either. Take for example the leading candidate for this week's Vivian O'Blivion Commemoration Award for Achievement in Failing to Notice the Blindingly Obvious, who had definitely visited the biodiesel section of the JtF website, and sent this terse message: Need info on making biodiesel. Thanks. :-/ Keith I stopped by one of the small town hardware stores on my way to work this morning. I was hunting for the 99% Isopropyl alcohol I had bought there years ago. No luck they don't carry it any longer. They did have other alcohols which I am unfamiliar with. methyl ester ketone? (sp) I have no idea what that is for. It was in the paint thinner section. As was methyl ethyl solvent. Unfortunately the ingredients said contains less than 4% methanol, so again I have no idea if that would be worth anything. I was after Isopropyl and they didn't have any, bummer. I looked at their good collection of fiberglass reinforced PVC tubing. My mind went on a quickie scavenger hunt of uses. Then I was off to see if they had any Phenolphthalein. Nada nothing zilch. I know I had a plan 'B' but, at this moment it does not come to me. I need to get back to fixing PCs here. As soon as time permits I will respond to your letter in full. Sincerely, Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
I stopped by one of the small town hardware stores on my way to work this morning. I was hunting for the 99% Isopropyl alcohol I had bought there years ago. No luck they don't carry it any longer. They did have other alcohols which I am unfamiliar with. methyl ester ketone? (sp) I have no idea what that is for. It was in the paint thinner section. As was methyl ethyl solvent. Methyl Ethyl Ketone is used as the hardening agent in fiberglass work. NASTY stuff. Ketones aren't technically alcohols anyway, if I remember my organic chemistry right. Unfortunately the ingredients said contains less than 4% methanol, so again I have no idea if that would be worth anything. I was after Isopropyl and they didn't have any, bummer. Try looking for rubbing alcohol in a pharmacy. I believe this is isopropyl alcohol. I looked at their good collection of fiberglass reinforced PVC tubing. My mind went on a quickie scavenger hunt of uses. Then I was off to see if they had any Phenolphthalein. Nada nothing zilch. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Thanks Zeke I was planning on going to the dreaded WalMart this afternoon as they are the only store left in this small town. I will be looking for denatured alcohol there. Brian On 10/19/05, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stopped by one of the small town hardware stores on my way to work this morning. I was hunting for the 99% Isopropyl alcohol I had bought there years ago. No luck they don't carry it any longer. They did have other alcohols which I am unfamiliar with. methyl ester ketone? (sp) I have no idea what that is for. It was in the paint thinner section. As was methyl ethyl solvent. Methyl Ethyl Ketone is used as the hardening agent in fiberglass work. NASTY stuff. Ketones aren't technically alcohols anyway, if I remember my organic chemistry right. Unfortunately the ingredients said contains less than 4% methanol, so again I have no idea if that would be worth anything. I was after Isopropyl and they didn't have any, bummer. Try looking for rubbing alcohol in a pharmacy. I believe this is isopropyl alcohol. I looked at their good collection of fiberglass reinforced PVC tubing. My mind went on a quickie scavenger hunt of uses. Then I was off to see if they had any Phenolphthalein. Nada nothing zilch. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
HEET for diesels is almost pure ( 98% or so ) Isopropanol from what I understand. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:12 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale I stopped by one of the small town hardware stores on my way to work this morning. I was hunting for the 99% Isopropyl alcohol I had bought there years ago. No luck they don't carry it any longer. They did have other alcohols which I am unfamiliar with. methyl ester ketone? (sp) I have no idea what that is for. It was in the paint thinner section. As was methyl ethyl solvent. Methyl Ethyl Ketone is used as the hardening agent in fiberglass work. NASTY stuff. Ketones aren't technically alcohols anyway, if I remember my organic chemistry right. Unfortunately the ingredients said contains less than 4% methanol, so again I have no idea if that would be worth anything. I was after Isopropyl and they didn't have any, bummer. Try looking for rubbing alcohol in a pharmacy. I believe this is isopropyl alcohol. I looked at their good collection of fiberglass reinforced PVC tubing. My mind went on a quickie scavenger hunt of uses. Then I was off to see if they had any Phenolphthalein. Nada nothing zilch. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Please don't shop at WarMart! Despite the problems with the labour movement, i think all of us progressives on this list would agree the hostility shown by WarMart against organized labour is downright unacceptable. At least up here in kanada ie, a Quebec WarMart store's employees voted this past summer to unionize, so the store simply closed down KF On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, Brian Rodgers wrote: Thanks Zeke I was planning on going to the dreaded WalMart this afternoon as they are the only store left in this small town. I will be looking for denatured alcohol there. Brian On 10/19/05, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stopped by one of the small town hardware stores on my way to work this morning. I was hunting for the 99% Isopropyl alcohol I had bought there years ago. No luck they don't carry it any longer. They did have other alcohols which I am unfamiliar with. methyl ester ketone? (sp) I have no idea what that is for. It was in the paint thinner section. As was methyl ethyl solvent. Methyl Ethyl Ketone is used as the hardening agent in fiberglass work. NASTY stuff. Ketones aren't technically alcohols anyway, if I remember my organic chemistry right. Unfortunately the ingredients said contains less than 4% methanol, so again I have no idea if that would be worth anything. I was after Isopropyl and they didn't have any, bummer. Try looking for rubbing alcohol in a pharmacy. I believe this is isopropyl alcohol. I looked at their good collection of fiberglass reinforced PVC tubing. My mind went on a quickie scavenger hunt of uses. Then I was off to see if they had any Phenolphthalein. Nada nothing zilch. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Hello again Brian snip Now Keith, please don't take this the wrong way (negative being wrong) has it occurred to you that maybe the flow of the JTF web site gets a little interrupted here and there? When was the last time you sat down with a newbie and watched as each step is absorbed and asked questions about comprehension? Again I don't mean to offend. For all I know you use your web page to teach newbies all the time and I am an idiot. Actually we do, and a whole bunch of people do it on their own without any more help from us, and others use it as a course to teach other people. It's layered information. Here's a comment from a user a few days ago, not untypical, but he puts it well: Your website is very well done. I appreciate the layers of technical complexity. You have progressively more technical information layered in an escalating and logical fashion. I like the links as each new item is introduced, the user can click for more specific information on a topic and it opens in a new window. This eliminates the tediousness of having to constantly backtrack to where the new concept was introduced. But, sorry about this, maybe not if you're scatterbrained about it. A guy complained once about all the new windows you end up with, I guess people either get it or they don't. Most people seem to get it, and like it. We get a lot of feedback, usually something like this: What an excellent site. Well done! I've got thousands of them. I'm an info pro Brian, I've been doing this sort of stuff for ever. There's a lot of information design in the JtF website. Some people want to go about it as if they expect it all to fit on a single page like a story they can read, but the biodiesel section at JtF is about half as long as the Bible and it's not a story, it's technical information. Linear organisation like a book just doesn't work very well online with that kind of material. Some of the attempts I've seen fail to impress, trying to do it with footnotes and so on doesn't work well. You have to layer it. Anyway, thankyou, I'm very aware of how the JtF website works and what the constraints are. Best wishes Keith Sincerely Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Hello Brian I'm sorry I spelled your name wrong, people are always doing that to me so I should know better. (But it was late...) Hello Keith Thank you for the thoughtful and considerate review of my weekend's fun in setting up our first mixer and solution of methoxide. I didn't want it to be a putdown but I guess it was anyway. Wow, the Dark Ages are back! LOL! How true, for me I don't know about Kurt. In the biodiesel world it harks back to the good old days that weren't but it was fun anyway, with people posting photographs on the Web of their first batch of biod, leaning over open processors with sparking drill motors doing the stirring and so on. A little later they were wearing breathing masks while leaning over their open processors, before it got figured out (someone asked a chemicals company) that not only ordinary breathing masks but even organic vapour masks are useless against methanol fumes. And so on. Now we look back and shudder and wonder why nobody even got hurt, and what are all those guardian angels that must've worked so hard to save our asses doing with themselves these days, well-deserved early retirement I guess. Anyway we don't want to be going back there. Um. Look, I really don't want to put a damper on your enthusiasm so I'll try not to but I'm in wonderment at the way you're going about it. Not to worry I can't be dis-enthused this easy. :-) I didn't think you could. This just isn't what it's all about. What is it all about? Couple of things beyond the immediately obvious. I think the main point is the context. Depends how broad you want to make it, it can be as broad as you like, then shrink it down to the immediate level and see how much of it fits. There's this, from an altogether different thread a couple of weeks back, three different people: Anyway, I am sorry if I have cause hate and discontent. I think you're misunderstanding. Calling you into accountability for accuracy does NOT imply hatred or discontent. Please be careful with your facts in the future! snip No need to be careful just to inspire. Yes there is. It takes both otherwise you'll mislead. Or you've come to the wrong place. Which he then cheerfully admitted, no problem. Arguably the opposite is more true, that if you're out to inspire people you should be much more careful, not less, you have to take a long view. And get your facts right. With biodiesel, there are two ways of going about it. One focuses on encouraging newbies - make it as quick and easy as possible to get results the first time or they'll lose interest, quick results, never mind what results. So for instance one guy (But I'm a professor! LOL!) uploaded his biodiesel how-to showing just that, Dark Ages stuff, him leaning over open processors and messing with methoxide with no gloves, no goggles and not even a useless breathing mask, just to show people how easy it really is, he said, and though he was using WVO he didn't say anything about titration because don't make it too complicated: KISS! Keep It Simple Stupid! But KISS is as KISS DOES (Don't Oversimplify Either, Stupid). The next development or maybe the one after that was there's no need for titration with WVO, just use 6.25 grams, Mike Pelly says so. Indeed he does say so, but if you actually read it, what he says is that titration is the most important step, do it very carefully and then do it twice: To determine the correct amount of lye required, a titration must be performed on the oil being transesterified. This is the most difficult step in the process, and the most critical -- make your titration as accurate as possible... It's a good idea to do this entire process more than once to ensure that your number is correct. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html Biodiesel recipe from Mike Pelly: Journey to Forever But a lot of people, even now, just use 6.25 grams. Maybe it'll even pass the wash-test if you bend the test too and use hot water or something, or more likely the wash-test gets sneered at as useless, it doesn't work - onward to super-gentle washing methods that will mask incomplete reactions loaded with emulsifiers and soap, and then it's stir-washing that doesn't work. And so on. There's a whole school of this iffy stuff. I've done dozens of trouble-free miles already! But as you can see from the messages being posted here all the time, the wash-test isn't useless, titration is necessary, stir-washing does work, and diesels should do half a million trouble-free miles, not just dozens. Quality-control issues are important, with making biodiesel and with information, and also for the list, which has a distinct role and function and will achieve different goals otherwise. Will people lose interest unless you lower the goalposts for them so they can score 100% first time? That's what advertising people and PR spin merchants and our lords and masters think, they even have us
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Dang, and all along I thought it was the Hokey Pokey...On 10/18/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This just isn't what it's all about.What is it all about? Couple of things beyond the immediately obvious. I think the mainpoint is the context. Depends how broad you want to make it, it canbe as broad as you like, then shrink it down to the immediate leveland see how much of it fits. -- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switchHistory teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives. - Abba Eban ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
I knew I should have kept my mouth shut. Hehe Sorry I am being silly again. Keith you do have a great web site and now that you have explained the layered information technique I will go back again and read it all again. I actually knew there was a great depth to the JTF site because every time I ask a question you quickly respond with a link to another information pool I had overlooked. You are absolutely right, there is a lot of info there and when combined with this email list it is all coming together for me. I take full responsibility for my words and more so for my actions. With this in mind, can I blame the skipping of titration of the WVO, on my wife, the ex-science teacher? I try not to bother you all with excerpts from my daily newsletter. I use my writing as a catch all to keep friends and family informed of what we are doing. Having not posted most of my daily chronicle you of course don't get to see the summations of what I have learned here. Somehow I guess I am saying that all you see are the questions I post as I am knee deep in this.For instance in my newsletter I made note of all of our short comings many of which you noted that day. After rereading this morning's newsletter I don't believe there is anything there that would shed any light on my thinking (or lack thereof) on this topic. Thank goodness I didn't post my verbose newsletter, right? Basically, I state that I have a lot of respect for you and will listen and learn. I know that precision is better and I need to get prepared for this weekend's chem-lab.project. I will look in a pet store for the Phenolphthalein. I have graduated syringes and pipettes. A triple beam scale is on the way. I looked at the Salvation Army next store and they have a blender for $15.00. On another thread called White lye I see that my lye may be questionale too. I followed the link http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#lye . I was wondering what the dark colored particles in my lye were. After reading your description I beleive I have aluminum in there. So, I now have to find a source for clean lye. That's all I have time for Keith. I know this isn't much after your wonderful letter. I guess I want you to know that I do have something going on. Thank you for your patience. Your's truly, Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Hello Kurt, Brian Wow, the Dark Ages are back! LOL! Um. Look, I really don't want to put a damper on your enthusiasm so I'll try not to but I'm in wonderment at the way you're going about it. This just isn't what it's all about. I think you're missing the point. At least one, IMNSHO. You've got it all going your way, great information resources, and a bunch of people here to discuss it with who've been doing it a long time. But! There was a recent thread here or maybe two with a bunch of messages encouraging newbies having difficulty with the wash-test, saying how they'd also struggled but got there in the end and they're glad they persevered, they did it by removing the variables, checking their techniques, improving their practices. That's quite a strong contrast with this thread. There are a lot of newbies here these days, by the way, much more than usual, hundreds of them just one or two steps behind you and watching how you're going about it, and what they're seeing from you now is how to get away with being sloppy. Here we are, at the Biofuel list, in the year Anno Domini 2005, after six years of this, being sloppy. When you follow a planned step-by-step course into learning how to do something complex, in the early steps you'll probably be learning more than you're aware of, if the course is up to much. Since it's been developed in accordance with user-experience here it probably is up to much. Why make small one-litre test batches anyway? So that you don't risk messing up right at the outset with a 150-litre first batch and end up facing a barrel of intractable and discouraging glop, right? It's much more difficult to make one-litre test batches than 150-litre batches. Kurt, do you think you're going to need the new 0.1 gram scale to measure the lye for a 55-gal reactor batch? Sure you'll use it, but you won't need those tolerances. With a one-litre batch it gives you a margin of error of 2.9%, kind of wide, but with the bigger batch it would be accurate to within 0.01%, ridiculously narrow, no need. The smaller the batch, the bigger the error, the more accurate your measurements have to be. A good reason to learn precise techniques doing small test batches, starting simple and adding one variable at a time, with quality checks not only of the fuel you make but of your procedures too, is that no matter how experienced you get, you never quite know what fiendishly cunning little challenges the next batch of WVO might be holding in store for you. The quality checks and test-batches aren't just for newbies, you do it with every batch. Many case-hardened biodiesel brewers do Poor man's titration bracket tests and quality checks with every batch, they've said so on the list. The more accurate and precise your measurements are the more your tests will tell you, and the less grief will fill your days. You have to get a 'feel' for it, they say. Like when you tie your shoelaces, you just do it, you don't even have to look, your fingers do it for you, it's easy. Actually it's a complicated series of operations, tying your shoelaces, it wouldn't be so easy to program a computer to do it. I don't think you get a good feel for it by trying to take it by storm, deciding it's not going to kick *your* butt, so you hurl volleys of random test batches at it and hit a wall of emulsion. So in the end you buy accurate scales after all, like everyone was telling you. But now you're advising Brian how not to need one. Now you've got the scales, but you also have the idea lodged in your head that you can measure half a gram of lye by volume in a beaker because you tried it and it worked. If you go teaching your fingers stuff like that you're going to find yourself tripping over your shoelaces a lot. You already are. You abandoned one-litre batches in favour of 300 ml batches in the hopes of getting less moisture in the lye because you think smaller measurements will take less time (76% humidity isn't so much, it's higher than that here now). So you set yourself the task of measuring even smaller quantities without an accurate scale. For a 300ml batch, 3.5g/litre of lye works out to 1.05 grams, and the volume would be 0.495 ml. You're measuring 0.495 ml of lye in a beaker? And it gave you some of your best results. But I think with these methods your best results are just as randomly chaotic as the worst ones. But you get it right by bending the wash-test your way. And then advise another newbie to do the same. Brian, meanwhile, is starting in the wrong place and forgot he needs to weigh something or other, and forgot he needed a blender to mix it in too. Sheesh, Brain, how can you be so scatter-brained? Don't you even make notes? You're not just boiling an egg you know. Why aren't you starting with virgin oil? But you want to start with WVO, why waste time, and you're going to titrate it. Only you don't have scales and you're going to use old
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Hello Keith Thank you for the thoughtful and considerate review of my weekend's fun in setting up our first mixer and solution of methoxide. Wow, the Dark Ages are back! LOL! How true, for me I don't know about Kurt. Um. Look, I really don't want to put a damper on your enthusiasm so I'll try not to but I'm in wonderment at the way you're going about it. Not to worry I can't be dis-enthused this easy. This just isn't what it's all about. What is it all about? I think you're missing the point. At least one, IMNSHO. You've got it all going your way, great information resources, and a bunch of people here to discuss it with who've been doing it a long time. I agree. There was a recent thread here or maybe two with a bunch of messages encouraging newbies having difficulty with the wash-test, saying how they'd also struggled but got there in the end and they're glad they persevered, they did it by removing the variables, checking their techniques, improving their practices. That's quite a strong contrast with this thread. Again, I can't speak for Kurt, my wife and I did what we could with what we had on hand, short of driving another thirty miles to get what we needed to do it right. There are a lot of newbies here these days, by the way, much more than usual, hundreds of them just one or two steps behind you and watching how you're going about it, and what they're seeing from you now is how to get away with being sloppy. Here we are, at the Biofuel list, in the year Anno Domini 2005, after six years of this, being sloppy. Yes, I see your point. I have found that I need to keep my mouth closed with the world view topics on this list because I feel others know better than I. It hadn't occurred to me that in this biodiesel process newbie thread others would be reading of my inexperience and thinking that if this knucklehead can do it then I should try doing this process sloppy as well. When you follow a planned step-by-step course into learning how to do something complex, in the early steps you'll probably be learning more than you're aware of, if the course is up to much. Since it's been developed in accordance with user-experience here it probably is up to much. Not sure what you are getting at with the last sentence. Why make small one-litre test batches anyway? So that you don't risk messing up right at the outset with a 150-litre first batch and end up facing a barrel of intractable and discouraging glop, right? I still feel better having made a sloppy and possibly useless two liter batch this weekend. It's much more difficult to make one-litre test batches than 150-litre batches. The only reason I did the two liter trial run is I needed to see first hand what I was going to need, or more accurately what I could scavenge and use and still get results. Kurt, do you think you're going to need the new 0.1 gram scale to measure the lye for a 55-gal reactor batch? Sure you'll use it, but you won't need those tolerances. With a one-litre batch it gives you a margin of error of 2.9%, kind of wide, but with the bigger batch it would be accurate to within 0.01%, ridiculously narrow, no need. The smaller the batch, the bigger the error, the more accurate your measurements have to be. A good reason to learn precise techniques doing small test batches, starting simple and adding one variable at a time, with quality checks not only of the fuel you make but of your procedures too, is that no matter how experienced you get, you never quite know what fiendishly cunning little challenges the next batch of WVO might be holding in store for you. The quality checks and test-batches aren't just for newbies, you do it with every batch. Many case-hardened biodiesel brewers do Poor man's titration bracket tests and quality checks with every batch, they've said so on the list. The more accurate and precise your measurements are the more your tests will tell you, and the less grief will fill your days. You have to get a 'feel' for it, they say. Like when you tie your shoelaces, you just do it, you don't even have to look, your fingers do it for you, it's easy. Actually it's a complicated series of operations, tying your shoelaces, it wouldn't be so easy to program a computer to do it. I don't think you get a good feel for it by trying to take it by storm, deciding it's not going to kick *your* butt, so you hurl volleys of random test batches at it and hit a wall of emulsion. So in the end you buy accurate scales after all, like everyone was telling you. But now you're advising Brian how not to need one. Now you've got the scales, but you also have the idea lodged in your head that you can measure half a gram of lye by volume in a beaker because you tried it and it worked. If you go teaching your fingers stuff like that you're going to find yourself tripping over your shoelaces a lot. You already are. You abandoned one-litre batches in favour of 300 ml batches in
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Hey Brian I've run into problems with measuring lye myself, and ultimately managed to work out a loose but somewhat workable way to measure out the lye by volume. It produced some of my best results to date, too, so I think I'm safe to share it with yas. Sodium Hydroxide has a density of 2.1 grams per cubic centimeter. Since a cubic centimeter = a milliliter, you can use your beaker with mL scale on it to measure out the lye volumetrically. For a test batch with virgin oil it's going to be some incredibly small number; under 2ml, I believe. I was only doing a 300mL test batch, so I needed under a milliliter of NaOH. Using the density of NaOH, convert your titrated grams into milliliters, then measure them out volumetrically and add to your methanol as per normal. I'd suggest erring on the side of caution when measuring it out though; unless your beaker is graduated in .01mL increments it might be hard to get a truly accurate volume. I decided when I tried it to err on the low side, as an incomplete reaction I've read can be reprocessed but too much lye is worse news on the washing step. In the end though, all these guys on the list are right; there's no substitute for a good, accurate gram scale. Just picked on up myself, in fact, measures out to .1 grams with a 500g capacity. Good luck to ya! -K On 10/15/05, Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi biodieselersI am here with my wife in our kitchen working on our first titration of WVO.We have determined through heating a sample of WVO that no water ispresent. We have found a soil test kit that has several types of litmus paper. We did several tests of the litmus to determine if itwas still fairly accurate by testing a light solution of lye water,household water, distilled water and finally battery acid. We havecompared the litmus paper color change and are satisfied that we can tell the difference in major pH scales. By the way, thisexperimentation is too much fun.We have several browser windows open to the archives and conversiontables for reference. It seems the first thing I forgot to collect for this first test is a gram scale. We live 15 miles from town and ahopeful there is a way to measure the lye without making a specialtrip. Or, are we done for the day?We have a decent thermometer, 1 beaker with ml scale, two syringes with cc scales, goggles, gloves and lots of excitement.Our question is this: Can we do this first step without the scale?What else are we forgetting if a trip to town is needed?Thanks for your help. Brian Nell Rodgers___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Great thanks Kurt This is what we were looking for. We even attempted to find the specific gravity of lye, but that didn't pan out. It was getting too complicated for us. A trip to town would be simpler we figured. On 10/15/05, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Brian I've run into problems with measuring lye myself, and ultimately managed to work out a loose but somewhat workable way to measure out the lye by volume. It produced some of my best results to date, too, so I think I'm safe to share it with yas. Sodium Hydroxide has a density of 2.1 grams per cubic centimeter. Since a cubic centimeter = a milliliter, you can use your beaker with mL scale on it to measure out the lye volumetrically. For a test batch with virgin oil it's going to be some incredibly small number; under 2ml, I believe. I was only doing a 300mL test batch, so I needed under a milliliter of NaOH. Using the density of NaOH, convert your titrated grams into milliliters, then measure them out volumetrically and add to your methanol as per normal. I'd suggest erring on the side of caution when measuring it out though; unless your beaker is graduated in .01mL increments it might be hard to get a truly accurate volume. I decided when I tried it to err on the low side, as an incomplete reaction I've read can be reprocessed but too much lye is worse news on the washing step. We will try this. In the end though, all these guys on the list are right; there's no substitute for a good, accurate gram scale. I agree but you know how it is with the first step in a new process, we want to see where it goes even if it does not work at all. Experimenting in New Mexico, Brian Rodgers Just picked on up myself, in fact, measures out to .1 grams with a 500g capacity. Good luck to ya! -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Not a problem, I encourage sharing experiences and tricks. Like I said, I had some of my best results to date on test batches using this method, a nice good clear yellow color top layer and a smooth separation, and it's so far washed very nicely. At least you don't also have to contend with 76% humidity, eh? ^.~ Good luck to ya man. Let me know how it works for you, I may ultimately refine the process with an eye toward really low cost production. Or automation; easier to stop at a volume than a weight, I think. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Yeah I too am getting into this sharing of information, although I don't know squat worth sharing yet. On 10/15/05, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not a problem, I encourage sharing experiences and tricks. Like I said, I had some of my best results to date on test batches using this method, a nice good clear yellow color top layer and a smooth separation, and it's so far washed very nicely. At least you don't also have to contend with 76% humidity, eh? ^.~ Funny you should mention this... In the last half hour it began pouring rain. I ran outside to get the firewood covered and now I am soaked. Meanwhile my wife got a roaring fire going in our heavily modified wood heater. It is now warming and drying us. I do recall that that ambient humidity messes with the methoxide mixing. Should I wait until the rain quits to continue with the experiment? Brian Rodgers Good luck to ya man. Let me know how it works for you, I may ultimately refine the process with an eye toward really low cost production. Or automation; easier to stop at a volume than a weight, I think. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
On 10/15/05, Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do recall that that ambient humidity messes with the methoxidemixing. Should I wait until the rain quits to continue with the experiment? Lye is hygroscopic; it absorbs water quite readily. Yeah, I'd suggest waiting for it to quit raining, as ambient humidity increases will throw off your measurement of lye on both a mass and volumetric basis because of absorption into the pellets or grains. Now if the humidity in your house is still low, you could always quickly measure it out and put it in a sealed container with your methanol, then hustle outside to mix it; I use Mason jars to mix my methoxide in for test batches. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
Ok very cool I just might try it now and close everything up tight while working. Brian Rodgers On 10/15/05, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/15/05, Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do recall that that ambient humidity messes with the methoxide mixing. Should I wait until the rain quits to continue with the experiment? Lye is hygroscopic; it absorbs water quite readily. Yeah, I'd suggest waiting for it to quit raining, as ambient humidity increases will throw off your measurement of lye on both a mass and volumetric basis because of absorption into the pellets or grains. Now if the humidity in your house is still low, you could always quickly measure it out and put it in a sealed container with your methanol, then hustle outside to mix it; I use Mason jars to mix my methoxide in for test batches. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
On 10/15/05, Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok very cool I just might try it now and close everything up tightwhile working.Brian Rodgers Best of luck to ya, once more. And now I need to get back to work before they decided I'm not earning my pay. ;p -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution - missing scale
The rain has stopped and the skies are clearing Tomorrow is another day. Thanks for all your help. Brian Rodgers On 10/15/05, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/15/05, Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok very cool I just might try it now and close everything up tight while working. Brian Rodgers Best of luck to ya, once more. And now I need to get back to work before they decided I'm not earning my pay. ;p -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
