Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: [OSM-talk] OSM Emitter
A typical address should something like this: addr:housenumber=1 addr:street=Rizal addr:city=Makati #osmit 121.43167, 14.53816 80 characters in all. On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 7:42 AM, Noli Sicad nsi...@gmail.com wrote: Maning, this really good to get Street Address (i.e. House No. Street Name and Suburb) while you setting at home or some friends and relative homes. How do you tweet the above? Base this example. ~ amenity=cafe name=Pizza Ololo cuisine=italian #osmit Gifts shop shop=gift #osmit A public telephone with manually set location amenity=telephone #osmit 50.439639,30.516251 ~ Noli On 7/6/11, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: a beta app to use geocoded tweets to add data to osm -- Forwarded message -- From: Oleg gel...@gmail.com Date: Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:03 AM Subject: [OSM-talk] OSM Emitter To: t...@openstreetmap.org Cc: Max Shytikov mshyti...@gmail.com Hi All Seems like this is a good place to tell about a new way to add places to the map. There is a lot of people who use twitter actively with their mobile phones, which has a gps on board. Now you can use location-based tweets to add POIs to the map :) The project just started and we plan to improve it using some beer and Thursday's nights ;) We're open for discussion and want to turn this service into really helpful and funny tool. Check it out: http://osmitter.com Have a fun! Oleg Max ___ talk mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
Sorry for replying late but I had to leave for the night shift yesterday. On 2011-07-05 15:28, John Smith wrote: On 5 July 2011 23:04, Andreas Perstingerandreas.perstin...@gmx.net wrote: What do you consider as same result? How far away do I have to place a node? If I put one additional node into the way or remove one, is that enough? The same as in an identical result, if they use the same sources then the only difference is their creative interpretation of the data sources into producing map data. Let's leave the theory and do the little experiment you suggested :-). I guess, you consider the way 115031489[1] as copyright protected, right? Then what about the attached alternative versions? For each version I started JOSM, opened a new layer, added the node (-31.069902030361792, 152.728383561) which is close to the beginning of the road, loaded the Bing background and traced the road. Between each session there were at least 5 minutes. If I would replace the original way with one version, would that be a copyright infringement? Bye, Andreas 1 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/115031489 ?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'? osm version='0.6' generator='JOSM' node id='-26' visible='true' lat='-31.07050351473609' lon='152.77789484357737' / node id='-24' visible='true' lat='-31.070982946416333' lon='152.7780923977054' / node id='-22' visible='true' lat='-31.07140597236209' lon='152.77843811742946' / node id='-20' visible='true' lat='-31.072012306269084' lon='152.77903077981358' / node id='-18' visible='true' lat='-31.072515231459942' lon='152.7799417238484' / node id='-16' visible='true' lat='-31.072712640620924' lon='152.7804795100858' / node id='-14' visible='true' lat='-31.07304165497846' lon='152.7818349509087' / node id='-12' visible='true' lat='-31.0730745563516' lon='152.7822410343941' / node id='-10' visible='true' lat='-31.073013453792427' lon='152.78268553118215' / node id='-8' visible='true' lat='-31.072933550386573' lon='152.7828995481542' / node id='-6' visible='true' lat='-31.072049908244523' lon='152.78388183117966' / node id='-4' visible='true' lat='-31.071561081404' lon='152.78424401374775' / node id='-2' visible='true' lat='-31.069803904536826' lon='152.777615791055' / way id='-29' visible='true' nd ref='-2' / nd ref='-26' / nd ref='-24' / nd ref='-22' / nd ref='-20' / nd ref='-18' / nd ref='-16' / nd ref='-14' / nd ref='-12' / nd ref='-10' / nd ref='-8' / nd ref='-6' / nd ref='-4' / /way /osm ?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'? osm version='0.6' generator='JOSM' node id='-49' visible='true' lat='-31.071011148204605' lon='152.77810886054942' / node id='-47' visible='true' lat='-31.07190420050686' lon='152.7788990770615' / node id='-45' visible='true' lat='-31.072425927181033' lon='152.7797606325643' / node id='-43' visible='true' lat='-31.072726741259594' lon='152.78051243577377' / node id='-41' visible='true' lat='-31.073055755568333' lon='152.781911777514' / node id='-39' visible='true' lat='-31.073079256546816' lon='152.78223005916473' / node id='-37' visible='true' lat='-31.07299465299708' lon='152.78278979586077' / node id='-35' visible='true' lat='-31.072712640620917' lon='152.7831958793462' / node id='-33' visible='true' lat='-31.072021706764325' lon='152.78392024448226' / node id='-31' visible='true' lat='-31.071739691502458' lon='152.7840848729223' / node id='-29' visible='true' lat='-31.06975340701974' lon='152.77756862683484' / way id='-52' visible='true' nd ref='-29' / nd ref='-49' / nd ref='-47' / nd ref='-45' / nd ref='-43' / nd ref='-41' / nd ref='-39' / nd ref='-37' / nd ref='-35' / nd ref='-33' / nd ref='-31' / /way /osm ?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'? osm version='0.6' generator='JOSM' node id='-111' visible='true' lat='-31.070769336398953' lon='152.77796373509094' / node id='-109' visible='true' lat='-31.07107015571834' lon='152.7781338511456' / node id='-107' visible='true' lat='-31.07193970621209' lon='152.77894601811636' / node id='-105' visible='true' lat='-31.072301624884776' lon='152.77954416811514' / node id='-103' visible='true' lat='-31.07268234304071' lon='152.78043316169132' / node id='-101' visible='true' lat='-31.07296905570743' lon='152.78164043691808' / node id='-99' visible='true' lat='-31.073048959083444' lon='152.78217273554088' / node id='-97' visible='true' lat='-31.072983156308062' lon='152.78269954654897' / node id='-95' visible='true' lat='-31.072879751854753' lon='152.78293002636494' / node id='-93' visible='true' lat='-31.071977308216237' lon='152.78390682177584' / node id='-91' visible='true' lat='-31.072531936050165' lon='152.7800106153619' / node id='-90' visible='true' lat='-31.06986450152192' lon='152.77756862683484' / way id='-114' visible='true' nd ref='-90' / nd ref='-111' / nd ref='-109' / nd ref='-107' / nd
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
-Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: John Smith [mailto:deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com] Verzonden: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 9:17 PM Aan: Licensing and other legal discussions. Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes On 6 July 2011 02:49, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote: I doubt if any effort in re-creating a map database of the real world can be classified as creative work, as the mapper inevitably tries to copy reality to the best of his effort, and any deviation is just imperfection and corrected once the right information is available. We aren't for the most part trying to make raster images of aerial imagery, so there is a lot of creativity that goes into making interpretations of the real world. [GG] Involuntary creativity then ! I never met a OSM mapper saying he is using his creativity to create an original view of the world. Its not just a lack in precision and perfection that makes a work creative, the creator must also have the intention to add something of himself. In terms of copyright this doesn't matter, just like if you write a few lines of whatever, you automatically receive copyright on your work. [GG] I was not talking about copyright. Copyright laws are of no use in the digital era, their application is too large and too wide, and information can be copied without loss. The application of copyright law is expensive and full of pitfalls. See what happens with movies and mp3 on P2P networks. These are outdated legal texts, and have to be redefined. In creating tiles the map I agree. Not in creating a database. In terms of copyright, it doesn't matter how a map is stored or how it is displayed, it's the act of making it that matters and because there is human involvement that's all that matters. [GG] Is that true ??? I would reformulate that as follows: In terms of copyright, it doesn't matter how a map is stored or how it is displayed, it's the act of human coordinated creativity that matters. Not the mere fact that there are humans involved makes it copyrighted. I think you agree with me that software is copyrighted due to the algorithms implemented, a proof of effort and creativity. It's not the output of the software that is copyrighted by the writer of the software, but the source code. The output can be copyrighted, if created by copyrighted input. OSM is the same. We have a set of algorithms and 200K+ human CPUs that as execute the algorithm defined by the community. Nothing creative there but the algorithms. Its not the output that is copyrightable. The input is the real world, be it by sometimes using media (bing) that are copyrighted as a picture, not the information it is providing. Just like art photography , you cannot copyright Marilyn Monroe on a picture, but it's the composition, exposure time, color balance, moment the picture was taken etc. BUT NOT THE PROPERTIES OF THE SUBJECT. You may conclude she is blond and has big tits without infringement of copyright. That is what we do with BING images. Gert ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
On 02/07/2011 17:15, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, suppose there's a node that has been created by user A with no tags on it. Suppose the node has later been moved by user B. A has not accepted the CT, while B has. Will the node have to be removed when we go to phase 5 of the license change? I must be missing something, because I believe this discussion is a complete waste of time. Wasn't it decided years ago that tag-less nodes are irrelevant should be deleted? It's certainly what I've been doing. If users want nodes as reference points they should add a note tag with an explanation. Cheers Dave F. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
Hi, Dave F. wrote: I must be missing something, because I believe this discussion is a complete waste of time. It is good that you have the modesty to assume that you're missing something rather than 10 others are completely wasting their time ;) in this case you are indeed missing (or I failed to mention explicitly) that we are talking about nodes _that are used by a way_. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] data derived from UK Ordnace Survey
Robert Whittaker (OSM) wrote: On 16 June 2011 09:55, Richard Fairhurst lt;rich...@systemed.netgt; wrote: Robert Whittaker wrote: A major purpose of the CTs is to ensure that all the data remaining in OSM is suitable for re-licensing under any Free and Open license without the need for further checks. No, that hasn't been the case since Contributor Terms 1.2 were proposed in November 2010 and subsequently adopted. 1.2.x say: If you contribute Contents, You are indicating that, as far as You know, You have the right to authorize OSMF to use and distribute those Contents under our _current_ licence terms (my emphasis). Frederik Ramm wrote: On 06/16/11 12:31, Dermot McNally wrote: Does that not effectively rule out any future relicensing because the burden of checking existing data is just too high? I mean, how would one even *begin* to perform such a check, given that nobody is actually obliged to tell us what license restriction his externally-sourced data might be under? Although it still seems to be controversial how clause 1 and 2 of the CT interact, with the recent draft intent of the LWG to issue a clarifying statement[1] that indeed data only has to be compatible with the current license and thus clause 2 only applies to the rights held by the contributor and not to all data contributed by the contributor, it might be a good time to think about the practical implications of this. As it currently stands, I am kind of with Frederik, that this basically effectively rules out any future relicensing, as it is impossible to know which rights (and restrictions) exist in the data at the moment. Nevertheless, I think it is a reasonably good compromise between the position of making it possible to use data other than PD data and still having the flexibility to relicense if there really is a necessity in future. So the question is what can we do to make this compromise practically feasible? Frederik Ramm wrote: This situation could be made a little less of a problem by requesting that anyone who contributes data that is not available for arbitrary relicensing under the CT (i.e. any free and open license etc.etc.) should flag such data in a well-defined way. Then, in a future relicensing process we could assume that any data not flagged can be relicensed at will, and only data that is flagged needs to be more closely investigated. I think this will be key. For all data, it needs to be clear a) who holds any rights in the data and b) what exact restrictions apply to the data. For all data originally collected by an osm contributor this is clearly stated in clause 2. But there currently is no way to flag data as having additional restrictions applied (because it is a third party import with an attached license) The best we currently have is the wiki import catalogue[2], but a) not all imports are registered there and b) a lot of entries are useless with respect to the exact licensing terms of the data and what agreements exist. The most logical place perhaps to record such info is the OSM account. All data that is contributed to OSM for which not all rights stated in section 2 of the contributor terms are given to OSMF, needs to be contributed under a special osm account to which the exact licensing requirements are attached and contact details of the original rights holder. It is to some degree already the recommended practice, but it is in no way enforced. For future relicensing to remain feasible, this would however need to be enforced. For existing accounts, that have previously mixed data, it might need a more fine grained possibility e.g. per changeset, to parcel out the rights held in the data again. Frederik Ramm wrote: It is too late to upgrade the CT with such a requirement, but we could still set up a community norm to that effect. I don't think it is too late to upgrade the CT, to clarify this and make it explicit that you need to use a special osm account with a link to the license if you cannot grant all rights mentioned in clause 2 and can only comply with clause 1. These are local changes (unlike any changes to e.g. the voting requirements), so there shouldn't be a problem if different accounts use different versions of the CT, like it is already the case with version 1.0 and 1.2.4. Kai [1] https://docs.google.com/View?id=dd9g3qjp_121dzjmk5c5 [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/OSM-legal-talk-Statement-from-nearmap-com-regarding-submission-of-derived-works-from-PhotoMaps-to-Opp-tp6477002p6555428.html Sent from the Legal Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] data derived from UK Ordnace Survey
On 7 July 2011 04:03, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote: Although it still seems to be controversial how clause 1 and 2 of the CT interact, with the recent draft intent of the LWG to issue a clarifying statement[1] that indeed data only has to be compatible with the current license and thus clause 2 only applies to the rights held by the contributor and not to all data contributed by the contributor, it might be a good time to think about the practical implications of this. It's my understanding that the OS data needs to be attributed directly or indirectly, CC-by-SA offers this, but the ODBL doesn't, so if you mean current license as in CC-by-SA then sure. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
On 6 July 2011 16:46, Andreas Perstinger andreas.perstin...@gmx.net wrote: Then what about the attached alternative versions? For each version I started JOSM, opened a new layer, added the node (-31.069902030361792, 152.728383561) which is close to the beginning of the road, loaded the Bing background and traced the road. Between each session there were at least 5 minutes. If I would replace the original way with one version, would that be a copyright infringement? I'm not sure of your ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
On 7 July 2011 04:20, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 July 2011 16:46, Andreas Perstinger andreas.perstin...@gmx.net wrote: Then what about the attached alternative versions? For each version I started JOSM, opened a new layer, added the node (-31.069902030361792, 152.728383561) which is close to the beginning of the road, loaded the Bing background and traced the road. Between each session there were at least 5 minutes. If I would replace the original way with one version, would that be a copyright infringement? I'm not sure of your point here, since you are 1 person, not 10. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
On 06/07/2011 18:29, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Dave F. wrote: I must be missing something, because I believe this discussion is a complete waste of time. It is good that you have the modesty to assume that you're missing something rather than 10 others are completely wasting their time ;) in this case you are indeed missing (or I failed to mention explicitly) that we are talking about nodes _that are used by a way_. Actually, most of those ten appear to have gone off at a tangent to discuss other matters. I must be still missing the plot. If, by _used_ you mean that it's a part of the way, then *millions* of nodes have no attributes. If one of these gets moved then the whole way gets updated, making your point mute. Cheers Dave F. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
On 2011-07-06 20:23, John Smith wrote: On 7 July 2011 04:20, John Smithdeltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 July 2011 16:46, Andreas Perstingerandreas.perstin...@gmx.net wrote: Then what about the attached alternative versions? For each version I started JOSM, opened a new layer, added the node (-31.069902030361792, 152.728383561) which is close to the beginning of the road, loaded the Bing background and traced the road. Between each session there were at least 5 minutes. If I would replace the original way with one version, would that be a copyright infringement? I'm not sure of your point here, since you are 1 person, not 10. Ok, than I invite anyone reading this to post his/her version :-). But even if I'm just one person the question still remains: Do you consider any of these 4 versions a violation of your copyright? Bye, Andreas ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
On 7 July 2011 06:12, Andreas Perstinger andreas.perstin...@gmx.net wrote: But even if I'm just one person the question still remains: Do you consider any of these 4 versions a violation of your copyright? Are you planning to try and replace all my work one way at a time like this? Which is of course the real issue, copyright does exist on the content, and assumptions have to be made about what is likely to have happened. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
On 2011-07-06 22:17, John Smith wrote: Are you planning to try and replace all my work one way at a time like this? No, I just wanted to show you that you can't really tell if someone retraces a removed way by looking at an aerial imagery, by looking at the current OSM map or by just moving randomly some nodes. IMHO that's a very weak protection for a cc-by-sa map. Which is of course the real issue, copyright does exist on the content, and assumptions have to be made about what is likely to have happened. BTW I've just found some high court decisions which clearly state that a map (and its content) isn't protected by copyright automatically here in Austria. You have to prove individual creativity. Just reproducing geographical facts like the course of a street or a river is not enough: http://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokumente/Justiz/JJR_19920114_OGH0002_0040OB00125_910_001/JJR_19920114_OGH0002_0040OB00125_910_001.html Unofficial Translation: Reproducing of geographical facts which one gets by surveying (for example the course of a mountain range, a river or a street or the location of a locality) in a map isn't protected by copyright (Urheberrecht) Bye, Andreas ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
On 7 July 2011 07:25, Andreas Perstinger andreas.perstin...@gmx.net wrote: No, I just wanted to show you that you can't really tell if someone retraces a removed way by looking at an aerial imagery, by looking at the current OSM map or by just moving randomly some nodes.The same goes for IMHO that's a very weak protection for a cc-by-sa map. How will the ODBL help here any better? This is an issue for all maps and this is why map companies put in trap streets. BTW I've just found some high court decisions which clearly state that a map (and its content) isn't protected by copyright automatically here in Austria. You have to prove individual creativity. Just reproducing geographical facts like the course of a street or a river is not enough: http://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokumente/Justiz/JJR_19920114_OGH0002_0040OB00125_910_001/JJR_19920114_OGH0002_0040OB00125_910_001.html Unofficial Translation: Reproducing of geographical facts which one gets by surveying (for example the course of a mountain range, a river or a street or the location of a locality) in a map isn't protected by copyright (Urheberrecht) So you are planning to copy from google maps then? ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
On 7 July 2011 08:27, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Google in addition have their ToS. So one person copies tiles and breaches contract and gives them to another person who is only bound by copyright ... ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
On 06/07/2011 21:04, Anthony wrote: On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org wrote: Dave F. wrote: If one of these gets moved then the whole way gets updated, No. Substantively, that is what happens, but technically, in the database, it is not. In the database, we go from: way id=1nd id=8nd id=9nd id=10/way node id=8 lat=82 lon=18 / node id=9 lat=81 lon=18 / node id=10 lat=81 lon=17 / to: way id=1nd id=8nd id=9nd id=10/way node id=8 lat=81 lon=17 / node id=9 lat=80 lon=17 / node id=10 lat=80 lon=16 / Of course, I think that obviously this: node id=8 lat=81 lon=17 / node id=9 lat=80 lon=17 / node id=10 lat=80 lon=16 / is a derivative of this: way id=1nd id=8nd id=9nd id=10/way node id=8 lat=82 lon=18 / node id=9 lat=81 lon=18 / node id=10 lat=81 lon=17 / (assuming a way with, say, 1000 nodes rather than 3...where between 3 and 1000 you can stop, well, that's a different question) Well, I learn something new every day. This explains a lot - as to why entities keep moving but there's no record of it. Can someone please explain the logic of not recording major changes in the database such as shifting an entity? Cheers Dave F. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
Am 06.07.2011 20:31, schrieb John Smith: On 6 July 2011 18:20, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote: [GG] I was not talking about copyright. Copyright laws are of no use in the digital era, You were talking about databases, however databases can still store copyrightable content, in this case it's copyright that we're talking about, if copyright weren't an issue the database could just be relicensed, but there is copyright involved so it can't. No, no, no, we are going through this slow and painful process because the OSMF stated that it would ask each contributor to re-license their data, simply because that's the right thing to do. That does not imply that individual contributors actually hold any rights in the data they contributed. As we know, that is a difficult question and depends on jurisdiction and so on, and my take on it would be: probably not. For all practical purposes we are simply pretending that such rights exist and it just doesn't make sense to spend hours arguing about if moving a node creates a derivative work, because again -we are just pretending-. Because the whole thing is more an ethical question than a legal one, I have suggested before (on talk-de) the following resolution objects (points and ways) created by CT accepters stay in, in all version, objects created by CT objectors get thrown out in all versions. Nice and symmetric and equally distributes the pain. Simon ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
On 7 July 2011 09:34, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: That does not imply that individual contributors actually hold any rights in the data they contributed. As we know, that is a difficult question and depends on jurisdiction and so on, and my take on it would be: probably not. For all practical purposes we are simply pretending that such rights exist and it just doesn't make sense to spend hours arguing about if moving a node creates a derivative work, because again -we are just pretending-. Think that all you like, it won't make it any more true than the comment about copyright not really applying in the digital age, the fact is maps and map making are covered by copyright, and copyright is recognised in most countries. Otherwise we could take other copyrighted maps and copy them. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
Am 06.07.2011 23:25, schrieb Andreas Perstinger: BTW I've just found some high court decisions which clearly state that a map (and its content) isn't protected by copyright automatically here in Austria. You have to prove individual creativity. Just reproducing geographical facts like the course of a street or a river is not enough: Which is really not a big surprise, there a many many activities that we engage in day by day in which you continuously make decisions (as in mapping). Should I place the brick a bit more to the left or to the right, should I place a node there or better here. Normally none of them lead to a protected work and nobody would confuse it for creativity (not that a crooked brick wall couldn't be a work of art, but most of the time it's just crooked). Simon ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
On 7 July 2011 09:47, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Normally none of them lead to a protected work and nobody would confuse it for creativity I'm not sure if I'm more amused that you have to try and scale things down to the size of a brick or the fact that even you state it's the morally right thing to do which is usually where laws stem from. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
Am 07.07.2011 01:40, schrieb John Smith: On 7 July 2011 09:34, Simon Poolesi...@poole.ch wrote: That does not imply that individual contributors actually hold any rights in the data they contributed. As we know, that is a difficult question and depends on jurisdiction and so on, and my take on it would be: probably not. For all practical purposes we are simply pretending that such rights exist and it just doesn't make sense to spend hours arguing about if moving a node creates a derivative work, because again -we are just pretending-. Think that all you like, it won't make it any more true than the comment about copyright not really applying in the digital age, the fact is maps and map making are covered by copyright, and copyright is recognised in most countries. Otherwise we could take other copyrighted maps and copy them. -Maps- are covered by copyright. But a pile of geo data is not a map, and I can use it for many many purposes with output that nobody would ever confuse with a map. Just as the collections of measurements that mappers made before the dawn of computers were not a map, but simply the underlying data. Simon ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
Upps you are really confused about the origins of copyright protection, which are rather recent and had nothing to do with morals. Simon Am 07.07.2011 01:54, schrieb John Smith: On 7 July 2011 09:47, Simon Poolesi...@poole.ch wrote: Normally none of them lead to a protected work and nobody would confuse it for creativity I'm not sure if I'm more amused that you have to try and scale things down to the size of a brick or the fact that even you state it's the morally right thing to do which is usually where laws stem from. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
On 7 July 2011 10:04, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Upps you are really confused about the origins of copyright protection, which are rather recent and had nothing to do with morals. I didn't know the late 1800s was considered rather recent ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
Am 07.07.2011 01:56, schrieb Anthony: ... There certainly is creativity involved in making a brick wall. Choosing a herringbone bond vs. a stretcher bond, for instance. And in some cases it can be copyrightable - not if it's just a herringbone or a stretcher bond, but if the pattern is unique enough, it's certainly copyrightable. Depends on the specifics. Just like mapping. Just like in map-making, not in surveying. If you design a nice brick pattern clearly the pattern has potential to be protectable, however a builder imperfectly following your pattern is not being creative. Simon ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
In terms of laws, sure. Am 07.07.2011 02:08, schrieb John Smith: On 7 July 2011 10:04, Simon Poolesi...@poole.ch wrote: Upps you are really confused about the origins of copyright protection, which are rather recent and had nothing to do with morals. I didn't know the late 1800s was considered rather recent ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
Well 300 to 400 years earlier (as in printing press with movable letters) which doesn't make it recent, but still twice as old as copyright law. The main point however is that copyright law has a economic motivation, not moral as you imply. Simon Am 07.07.2011 02:12, schrieb John Smith: On 7 July 2011 10:10, Simon Poolesi...@poole.ch wrote: In terms of laws, sure. Well copying wasn't much of a problem until the invention of the printing press, which according to you was relatively recent as well. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
On 7 July 2011 10:20, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Well 300 to 400 years earlier (as in printing press with movable letters) which doesn't make it recent, but still twice as old as copyright law. The main point however is that copyright law has a economic motivation, not moral as you imply. How many painters die poor? What about famous composers? Economics became an issue much later. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] adding multiple relations (bus routes) to one road
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.comwrote: are there any suggestions for making it easier? -- robin I suggested a long time ago that adding segment roads in routes relations was a bad idea. The alternative is to put the intersection nodes and end-nodes of the route. This has the big advantage that ways are not split any more for some abstract features like routes (and you don't have to add a 2nd relation to rebuild the road). But it has the disadvantage that software developers have to work a bit before they can render the result. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] adding multiple relations (bus routes) to one road
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com wrote: are there any suggestions for making it easier? -- robin Well you could put in a request to make the boundary between the taglist and relations list in Potlatch moveable, so you can see more relations. Having the relation list in a consistent order would also help. If you haven't already twigged, make sure you widen the tag/relations lists - it makes it a lot easier to see what the relations are. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] adding multiple relations (bus routes) to one road
There is this proposal http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Route_Segments, which I like, but it seems it's not worked on anymore and it's not rendered, since it involves relations containing relations. I don't really mind having many relations on roads. It doesn't pose a problem in JOSM. It would be easier to manage changes though, if the information wasn't duplicated 40 times. There is also a public transport map here now: http://opencyclemap.org/?zoom=16lat=-36.84618lon=174.77386layers=0B Jo 2011/7/6 Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com hi, I'm currently adding a lot of bus routes to roads in central Auckland. problem is, it's getting hard to manage. some road segments have 40+ routes on them, which gets complicated. here is an example of one which I've added 12 routes to; there will be lots more http://www.openbusmap.org/?zoom=17lat=-36.86508lon=174.74462layers=BT are there any suggestions for making it easier? -- robin http://bumblepuppy.org/blog/?p=237 - government bill to remove basic human rights in NZ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] adding multiple relations (bus routes) to one road
2011/7/6 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: The alternative is to put the intersection nodes and end-nodes of the route. This has the big advantage that ways are not split any more for some abstract features like routes (and you don't have to add a 2nd relation to rebuild the road). But it has the disadvantage that software developers have to work a bit before they can render the result. if you stored only nodes there would be ambiguity problems in cases where several ways connect the same nodes. It would also increase complexity for editors/mappers tremendously when detaching nodes with relations on them from ways. Cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Emitter
Cool thing around pictures, as most of twitter clients can upload them themselves and make a short links in the posts, so, we can try to use that links and put them into nodes as well! Also @mentioning - we're adding both ways now - so, you'll be able to use @osm_it - to hide your mappings from your followers, or #osmit - as it works now... Next, a MapDust - have to get in more with service, as it makes sense to use it with osmitter. For now, when you're adding a POI, you'll get a @reply from osmitter with link to the node on the OSM, like this: http://twitter.com/#!/osm_it/status/8704488865792 - so, you can check it on the go. btw, cool to have this kind of feedback! -- RO 2011/7/5 Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org Hi Oleg, Well you beat me to it :) This is in fact almost exactly what I had in mind and what I discussed at WhereCampEU. Apart from the comments Martin made, we also discussed using a mention instead of a hashtag. This helps to keep the user's followers twitter streams free of the osmitter tweets that do not make sense to most anyway. The rationale here is that a tweet starting with a @mention will - I believe - only show up in your follower's stream if they also follow that account. Also, I've been thinking about feedback to the user. Because GPS is generally inaccurate in dense urban areas this way of adding things to OSM will result in quite a number of those things ending up on the next block or on the wrong side of the street. It would be good if there were some way for the user to easily review his submissions. This could be done in a number of ways. Firstly there is the intermediate layer that Martin mentioned. I was talking to Oliver (Skobbler) about using MapDust for that and that makes a lot of sense to me. If you choose to go the route you chose and add directly there should be either something like a queue of twitter submissions on the osmitter web site that you could pull up to review your submissions, or possibly a twitter reply with a link to a mobile site allowing you to do that. As it is, this system will generate a lot of inaccurately located POIs – or does your experience show otherwise? A last thing that I've been thinking about implementing is a way to add links to photos to the POI. Twitter clients on smartphones generally have tight integration with photo sharing services - take a picture, twitter client uploads and inserts link to image page on sharing service. That link could be added as a tag (url:photo or something?) to the poi. Best Martijn On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 8:06 PM, Oleg gel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Martin, Yes, I've talk to Shaun McDonald - he told me about this discussion. The sad thing - I was planning to visit wherecamp this summer as well, but no luck there ;) Think, correcting posted data is a useful tool, we can do that - as we can keep all the data, we'v parsed. First we want to add is a human-readable tagging - so, you can add fast food italian pizzeria Ololo #osmit, but, still thinking on formatting and parsing rules on this case. A good example is another place, named French Fries, for instance... If there's any idea on parsing both of the cases correctly... and yes = we'll update that example! -- RO 2011/7/5 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com While I think that this is generally not a bad idea, I'd still expect that the data has not the average positional quality OSM usually has. Martijn van Exel gave a talk at Wherecamp-EU in Berlin about the same topic (twitter to osm) and in the following discussion the consensus was towards a intermediate layer where those tweets would be stored, so that you can do reasonable verification at home with the comfort of a map and probably some nice aerial fotos in the background to validate the raw data. I also stumbled upon the first tagging examples on your page: Italian pizzeria amenity=cafe name=Pizza Ololo cuisine=italian #osmit Is this really consensus to tag a pizzeria as cafe? There is also restaurant and fast_food in the amenity value-set. Cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- martijn van exel schaaltreinen.nl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] adding multiple relations (bus routes) to one road
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:23 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: if you stored only nodes there would be ambiguity problems in cases where several ways connect the same nodes. You also have ambiguity problem in the other model e.g. when you have segments in your relation which are not defining a straight line... The applications using such relations would simply ignore the ones with ambiguities (e.g. not rendered). That would indicate the mappers what to fix. It would also increase complexity for editors/mappers tremendously when detaching nodes with relations on them from ways. Detaching intersection nodes is not something usual. At the moment, the complexity is more on managing ways with an increasing amount of relations and an increasing amount of segments within the relations for a single street. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Emitter
By the way, we'v reduced permissions for twitter - just like it should be! Thanks for mentioning that! -- RO 2011/7/6 Oleg gel...@gmail.com Cool thing around pictures, as most of twitter clients can upload them themselves and make a short links in the posts, so, we can try to use that links and put them into nodes as well! Also @mentioning - we're adding both ways now - so, you'll be able to use @osm_it - to hide your mappings from your followers, or #osmit - as it works now... Next, a MapDust - have to get in more with service, as it makes sense to use it with osmitter. For now, when you're adding a POI, you'll get a @reply from osmitter with link to the node on the OSM, like this: http://twitter.com/#!/osm_it/status/8704488865792 - so, you can check it on the go. btw, cool to have this kind of feedback! -- RO 2011/7/5 Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org Hi Oleg, Well you beat me to it :) This is in fact almost exactly what I had in mind and what I discussed at WhereCampEU. Apart from the comments Martin made, we also discussed using a mention instead of a hashtag. This helps to keep the user's followers twitter streams free of the osmitter tweets that do not make sense to most anyway. The rationale here is that a tweet starting with a @mention will - I believe - only show up in your follower's stream if they also follow that account. Also, I've been thinking about feedback to the user. Because GPS is generally inaccurate in dense urban areas this way of adding things to OSM will result in quite a number of those things ending up on the next block or on the wrong side of the street. It would be good if there were some way for the user to easily review his submissions. This could be done in a number of ways. Firstly there is the intermediate layer that Martin mentioned. I was talking to Oliver (Skobbler) about using MapDust for that and that makes a lot of sense to me. If you choose to go the route you chose and add directly there should be either something like a queue of twitter submissions on the osmitter web site that you could pull up to review your submissions, or possibly a twitter reply with a link to a mobile site allowing you to do that. As it is, this system will generate a lot of inaccurately located POIs – or does your experience show otherwise? A last thing that I've been thinking about implementing is a way to add links to photos to the POI. Twitter clients on smartphones generally have tight integration with photo sharing services - take a picture, twitter client uploads and inserts link to image page on sharing service. That link could be added as a tag (url:photo or something?) to the poi. Best Martijn On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 8:06 PM, Oleg gel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Martin, Yes, I've talk to Shaun McDonald - he told me about this discussion. The sad thing - I was planning to visit wherecamp this summer as well, but no luck there ;) Think, correcting posted data is a useful tool, we can do that - as we can keep all the data, we'v parsed. First we want to add is a human-readable tagging - so, you can add fast food italian pizzeria Ololo #osmit, but, still thinking on formatting and parsing rules on this case. A good example is another place, named French Fries, for instance... If there's any idea on parsing both of the cases correctly... and yes = we'll update that example! -- RO 2011/7/5 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com While I think that this is generally not a bad idea, I'd still expect that the data has not the average positional quality OSM usually has. Martijn van Exel gave a talk at Wherecamp-EU in Berlin about the same topic (twitter to osm) and in the following discussion the consensus was towards a intermediate layer where those tweets would be stored, so that you can do reasonable verification at home with the comfort of a map and probably some nice aerial fotos in the background to validate the raw data. I also stumbled upon the first tagging examples on your page: Italian pizzeria amenity=cafe name=Pizza Ololo cuisine=italian #osmit Is this really consensus to tag a pizzeria as cafe? There is also restaurant and fast_food in the amenity value-set. Cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- martijn van exel schaaltreinen.nl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Sister Projects
M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: Why on earth should we give references to proprietary data projects like mapmaker in our wiki? Including it in the list gives us a chance to link to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_map_maker and explain why people should *not* choose GMM instead of OSM. -- Tobias Knerr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Sister Projects
On 6 July 2011 22:03, Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote: M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: Why on earth should we give references to proprietary data projects like mapmaker in our wiki? Including it in the list gives us a chance to link to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_map_maker and explain why people should *not* choose GMM instead of OSM. And why would that be, because the new CTs are similar to google and people don't really have to share back, just like google isn't really sharing... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
On 6 July 2011 18:20, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote: [GG] I was not talking about copyright. Copyright laws are of no use in the digital era, You were talking about databases, however databases can still store copyrightable content, in this case it's copyright that we're talking about, if copyright weren't an issue the database could just be relicensed, but there is copyright involved so it can't. their application is too large and too wide, and information can be copied without loss. So what, copyright still covers creative works. The application of copyright law is expensive and full of pitfalls. See what happens with movies and mp3 on P2P networks. These are outdated legal texts, and have to be redefined. This is irrelevant, just because it's difficult to enforce, doesn't make it less enforcible. In creating tiles the map I agree. Not in creating a database. In terms of copyright, it doesn't matter how a map is stored or how it is displayed, it's the act of making it that matters and because there is human involvement that's all that matters. [GG] Is that true ??? I would reformulate that as follows: In terms of copyright, it doesn't matter how a map is stored or how it is displayed, it's the act of human coordinated creativity that matters. Copyright covers any work you do, no matter how trivial or how small, weather you intend to do something worth copyright or not. Photographers keep winning in court over companies that using their imagery without attribution and sometimes without paying for it. Not the mere fact that there are humans involved makes it copyrighted. I think you agree with me that software is copyrighted due to the algorithms implemented, a proof of effort and creativity. It's not the output of the software that is copyrighted by the writer of the software, but the source code. The output can be copyrighted, if created by copyrighted input. Didn't bison do something weird with licensing, where it was interacting with the output and including a chunk of itself the output was deemed to be copyrighted under the same license, in any case this is all pointless, we're not talking about survey's if you want a similar example use wikipedia, the content is copyrighted even though the it's stored in a database. OSM is the same. We have a set of algorithms and 200K+ human CPUs that as Not really, OSM doesn't produce anything, any more than MS can claim copyright on the output of word, the author of the document owns the copyright. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Sister Projects
Am 06.07.2011 20:17, schrieb John Smith: On 6 July 2011 22:03, Tobias Knerro...@tobias-knerr.de wrote: M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: Why on earth should we give references to proprietary data projects like mapmaker in our wiki? Including it in the list gives us a chance to link to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_map_maker and explain why people should*not* choose GMM instead of OSM. And why would that be, because the new CTs are similar to google and people don't really have to share back, just like google isn't really sharing... Come on this is just a style discussion on wiki pages, nothing political. To me it sounds good to point to other projects and may be to compare there pros/cons. cya Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes
Hi, Dave F. wrote: If, by _used_ you mean that it's a part of the way, then *millions* of nodes have no attributes. No tags. Yes. If one of these gets moved then the whole way gets updated, No. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] adding multiple relations (bus routes) to one road
On 6 July 2011 22:39, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: Detaching intersection nodes is not something usual. At the moment, the complexity is more on managing ways with an increasing amount of relations and an increasing amount of segments within the relations for a single street. hmm, all interesting ideas guys, but it looks like i'm stuck for the moment with manual management is there a way in potlatch 2 to copy relations from one way/node to another? in potlatch 1 it was 'hold the Ctrl-key while clicking the relations button' i think -- robin http://bumblepuppy.org/blog/?p=237 - government bill to remove basic human rights in NZ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] new zealand, australia
i did a search for new zealand, and was heartened to find we are now part of australia. at last, we have come to our senses and joined as a nation! slightly more seriously, could someone help with the labelling of the node for nz? apart from somehow being part of australia, if i click on the search result for 'new zealand', it zooms me in to zoom level 14 or something equally silly, so i am guessing it is tagged wrongly. any suggestions how to fix it? cheers -- robin http://bumblepuppy.org/blog/?p=237 - government bill to remove basic human rights in NZ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 07/06/2011 11:35 PM, Robin Paulson wrote: is there any consensus on shortening of parts of names? e.g.: street/st saint/st avenue/ave point/pt mount/mt i was under the impression consensus was to type the full word, then renderers would shorten where necessary? apparently some mappers disagree though http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name#Abbreviation_.28don.27t_do_it.29 I remember also seeing a list of common abbreviations, for help in decoding ones you don't know. One thing it pointed out is that some words have the same abbreviation, e.g. Saint and Street both abbreviate to St. This makes it harder to programatically un-abbreviate than to programatically abbreviate. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On Thu, Jul 07, 2011 at 03:35:07PM +1200, Robin Paulson wrote: is there any consensus on shortening of parts of names? e.g.: street/st saint/st avenue/ave point/pt mount/mt i was under the impression consensus was to type the full word, then renderers would shorten where necessary? apparently some mappers disagree though Yes, thats the consensus and has been for a long time. Some mappers always disagree, just ignore them. :-) Unfortunately imported data often has abbreviated names. Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] new zealand, australia
Looking at the details it seems like the Australia being referred to is the continent, not the country. The New Zealand node has a is_in:continent=Australia tag and there is a place=continent node that nominatim is associating it with. So I guess this is correct but perhaps a little confusing in how it is displayed. Perhaps you should rename your continent to avoid this confusion! New Zealand node: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/248120384 Continent node: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/249399679 Nominatim details page where you can see the place:continent association: http://open.mapquestapi.com/nominatim/v1/details.php?place_id=697148 Toby On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 10:42 PM, Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com wrote: i did a search for new zealand, and was heartened to find we are now part of australia. at last, we have come to our senses and joined as a nation! slightly more seriously, could someone help with the labelling of the node for nz? apart from somehow being part of australia, if i click on the search result for 'new zealand', it zooms me in to zoom level 14 or something equally silly, so i am guessing it is tagged wrongly. any suggestions how to fix it? cheers -- robin http://bumblepuppy.org/blog/?p=237 - government bill to remove basic human rights in NZ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes
Since the ban on all contributors who didn't sign the CTs, and ban on all new contributors from using NearMap and other CC-BY/CC-BY-SA sources, I'm no longer actively contributing to the OSM database. Instead I am now actively contributing to the fosm database. I am interested to hear what other active Australian OSM contributors will be doing now. Just looking through the list at http://odbl.de/australia.html we have a fair amount of people who have been locked out, and also people who ticked the CTs who have used CC-BY/CC-BY-SA sources in the past who may want to keep this data and continue using these sources in the future. So, active Australian OSM contributors, are you staying with the OSM db? If so how are you going to do edits going forward, because any CC-BY-SA derived data you add may be removed if OSM abandons CC-BY-SA at some point in the future (or may even be conflicting with your agreed CTs now...). Are you moving to the fosm db? If so, great! Less problems with trying to merge your data into fosm, and we can all get back to mapping. Do you have any concerns over the switch? Are you going to stop contributing data altogether? Or are you putting you efforts on hold at the moment. I'm interested in Australia wide, but I'm personally most interested to hear from Franc, behemoth14, rrankin, Zhent, Ebenezer, swanilli, inas, Diego, good2010, dexgps. (these are just those that come to mind from looking over recent edits in the Sydney area) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.comwrote: Since the ban on all contributors who didn't sign the CTs, and ban on all new contributors from using NearMap and other CC-BY/CC-BY-SA sources, I'm no longer actively contributing to the OSM database. Instead I am now actively contributing to the fosm database. I am interested to hear what other active Australian OSM contributors will be doing now. I swapped to fosm when the lockout happened cheers Just looking through the list at http://odbl.de/australia.html we have a fair amount of people who have been locked out, and also people who ticked the CTs who have used CC-BY/CC-BY-SA sources in the past who may want to keep this data and continue using these sources in the future. So, active Australian OSM contributors, are you staying with the OSM db? If so how are you going to do edits going forward, because any CC-BY-SA derived data you add may be removed if OSM abandons CC-BY-SA at some point in the future (or may even be conflicting with your agreed CTs now...). Are you moving to the fosm db? If so, great! Less problems with trying to merge your data into fosm, and we can all get back to mapping. Do you have any concerns over the switch? Are you going to stop contributing data altogether? Or are you putting you efforts on hold at the moment. I'm interested in Australia wide, but I'm personally most interested to hear from Franc, behemoth14, rrankin, Zhent, Ebenezer, swanilli, inas, Diego, good2010, dexgps. (these are just those that come to mind from looking over recent edits in the Sydney area) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.comwrote: Are you going to stop contributing data altogether? Or are you putting you efforts on hold at the moment. My efforts are on hold at the moment. Still disillusioned... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes
Hi Andrew, On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 21:29, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: snip Are you moving to the fosm db? If so, great! Less problems with trying to merge your data into fosm, and we can all get back to mapping. Do you have any concerns over the switch? I have concerns. The FAQ here gives valid reasons to fork an open source project: http://fossfaq.com/questions/52/what-does-it-mean-to-fork-an-open-source-project and the multiple forks of OSM may have ignored the advice to only fork When you have exhausted all other options. Forks are not a guaranteed success. They may have good reasons, ideals and differing opinions, but the parent project has a brand, and for OSM it's a powerful one. As an example everyone has heard of MySQL, but what about Maria? Mysql - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysql#Forks_of_MySQL Personally I don't care about the licence. I feel that the forks and this resulting dilution of effort will become a drain on all the projects (united we stand/divided etc etc), and have become a shouting match where the 'political' goals of the forked projects are trumpeted over the stated reason for the thing being there - an open map. Cries of We're more open don't help when you can't rustle up the hosting fees or development volunteers. So a fork must become popular. More popular than other forks or the parent project. Was this the real reason for your post with mention of FOSM (and no other OSM spin-offs), and seeding fear uncertainty and doubt regarding *possible* data deletion.. you were recruiting? I'd like to think all this rather dull licence bickering will play out and OSM will continue and strengthen. It's sad that people with agendas are talking up the 'possible' deletion of data, and rushing off to fork. That energy could have been used towards working on ways of keeping or replacing the data in OSM. A satisfactory local example where things turned out well is where Nearmap made it's generous offer to allow pre-existing data to remain under the new licence. However on this list there was little rejoicing, there was a lot of picking over the actual wording of their offer; looking at the legal-eze, hairsplitting terminology or imagined loopholes in order to justify the fork projects existence. Have fun. Cheers, Chas ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes
This is exactly right. On 7/6/2011 5:35 AM, Chris Barham wrote: Hi Andrew, On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 21:29, Andrew Harveyandrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: snip Are you moving to the fosm db? If so, great! Less problems with trying to merge your data into fosm, and we can all get back to mapping. Do you have any concerns over the switch? I have concerns. The FAQ here gives valid reasons to fork an open source project: http://fossfaq.com/questions/52/what-does-it-mean-to-fork-an-open-source-project and the multiple forks of OSM may have ignored the advice to only fork When you have exhausted all other options. Forks are not a guaranteed success. They may have good reasons, ideals and differing opinions, but the parent project has a brand, and for OSM it's a powerful one. As an example everyone has heard of MySQL, but what about Maria? Mysql - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysql#Forks_of_MySQL Personally I don't care about the licence. I feel that the forks and this resulting dilution of effort will become a drain on all the projects (united we stand/divided etc etc), and have become a shouting match where the 'political' goals of the forked projects are trumpeted over the stated reason for the thing being there - an open map. Cries of We're more open don't help when you can't rustle up the hosting fees or development volunteers. So a fork must become popular. More popular than other forks or the parent project. Was this the real reason for your post with mention of FOSM (and no other OSM spin-offs), and seeding fear uncertainty and doubt regarding *possible* data deletion.. you were recruiting? I'd like to think all this rather dull licence bickering will play out and OSM will continue and strengthen. It's sad that people with agendas are talking up the 'possible' deletion of data, and rushing off to fork. That energy could have been used towards working on ways of keeping or replacing the data in OSM. A satisfactory local example where things turned out well is where Nearmap made it's generous offer to allow pre-existing data to remain under the new licence. However on this list there was little rejoicing, there was a lot of picking over the actual wording of their offer; looking at the legal-eze, hairsplitting terminology or imagined loopholes in order to justify the fork projects existence. Have fun. Cheers, Chas ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes
On 6 July 2011 22:35, Chris Barham cbar...@pobox.com wrote: I'd like to think all this rather dull licence bickering will play out and OSM will continue and strengthen. It's sad that people with agendas are talking up the 'possible' deletion of data, and rushing off to fork. That energy could have been used towards working on ways Are ya really going to play OSM-F as a victim card here, for the longest time no one seemed to give a hoot about us aussies and the large amounts of CC licensed data we stood to loose, and now in the 11th hour you and SteveC suddenly want to care about the community in Australia? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes
On 06/07/2011, at 9:29 PM, Andrew Harvey wrote: because any CC-BY-SA derived data you add may be removed if OSM abandons CC-BY-SA at some point in the future (or may even be conflicting with your agreed CTs now...). How could I add CC-BY-SA derived data if I use GPS traces, audio recordings of names, or imagery like Yahoo or Bing? The only way I could see this happening would be if I was to deliberately go out of my way to add a CC-BY-SA source (either other imagery or a data import). Have I missed something? (An example would be nice!) I am still contributing to OSM. I also have a FOSM account (same username as OSM), but I haven't used it yet. I've just finished adding my recent Flinders Ranges trip, hopefully all these will get copied to FOSM. I'm currently working on some audio recordings from an earlier trip to Wyangala (near Cowra), then I'll probably have a break as I'll have gone through all my current data, although I might do some work on adding new ways from Bing imagery. On 06/07/2011, at 10:35 PM, Chris Barham wrote: A satisfactory local example where things turned out well is where Nearmap made it's generous offer to allow pre-existing data to remain under the new licence. However on this list there was little rejoicing I'll take this opportunity to thank Nearmap for their generosity to allow data to remain in OSM. Mark P. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes
On 7 July 2011 07:54, Mark Pulley mrpul...@lizzy.com.au wrote: How could I add CC-BY-SA derived data if I use GPS traces, audio recordings of names, or imagery like Yahoo or Bing? The only way I could see this happening would be if I was to deliberately go out of my way to add a Actually it's potentially trivial to use CC-by-SA data, since anyone that supplied contributions under cc-by-sa are still in the database and you only have to modify previous data to then have data derived from cc-by-sa ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes
Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: This is exactly right. It's only exactly right if you don't have a problem with the new licence, with the process by which it was implemented, with mass deletion of data, with the proliferation of incompatible open licences, with irrevocable and eternal rights grants, with future relicencing at OSM-F's whim, etc. Dismissing the objections of people who don't share your viewpoint as some kind of hidden agenda or shitstirring for shitstirring's sake is immature, childish and unproductive. Failing to understand that others genuinely have different viewpoints from you is a glaring failure for a man who's supposed to be a leader in an open community. -- Sam Couter | mailto:s...@couter.id.au OpenPGP fingerprint: A46B 9BB5 3148 7BEA 1F05 5BD5 8530 03AE DE89 C75C signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes
On 7/6/2011 3:20 PM, Sam Couter wrote: Steve Coastst...@asklater.com wrote: This is exactly right. It's only exactly right if you don't have a problem with the new licence, with the process by which it was implemented, with mass deletion of data, with the proliferation of incompatible open licences, with irrevocable and eternal rights grants, with future relicencing at OSM-F's whim, etc. Dismissing the objections of people who don't share your viewpoint as some kind of hidden agenda or shitstirring for shitstirring's sake is immature, childish and unproductive. Failing to understand that others genuinely have different viewpoints from you is a glaring failure for a man who's supposed to be a leader in an open community. Wow, you infer a lot from my four word sentence. Do you have any evidence to back any of it up? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes
As others have said.. 1) Ive moved to fosm since the lockout 2) Im feeling pretty disillusioned at the whole thing, and seriously wonder if its not worth just paying 5 bucks for a map that I cannot share, rather than deal with the politics of a staggered mapping project 3) Ive made a couple of edits, but really am feeling like theres so much duplicated work now that its almost just not worth bothering Sadly, I think others are starting to fall into these groups too, which is a pity as Ive just discovered some huge unmapped areas around the snowy mountains that I have lots of GPX tracks from (but unfortunately almost zero aerial imagery, from nearmap, bing, any of them). Its hard to get motivation to do work, in the knowledge that either a) work will be deleted or b) someone will have a huge headache trying to merge any work if it is duplicated. David On Wed, 2011-07-06 at 22:35 +1000, Chris Barham wrote: Hi Andrew, On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 21:29, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: snip Are you moving to the fosm db? If so, great! Less problems with trying to merge your data into fosm, and we can all get back to mapping. Do you have any concerns over the switch? I have concerns. The FAQ here gives valid reasons to fork an open source project: http://fossfaq.com/questions/52/what-does-it-mean-to-fork-an-open-source-project and the multiple forks of OSM may have ignored the advice to only fork When you have exhausted all other options. Forks are not a guaranteed success. They may have good reasons, ideals and differing opinions, but the parent project has a brand, and for OSM it's a powerful one. As an example everyone has heard of MySQL, but what about Maria? Mysql - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysql#Forks_of_MySQL Personally I don't care about the licence. I feel that the forks and this resulting dilution of effort will become a drain on all the projects (united we stand/divided etc etc), and have become a shouting match where the 'political' goals of the forked projects are trumpeted over the stated reason for the thing being there - an open map. Cries of We're more open don't help when you can't rustle up the hosting fees or development volunteers. So a fork must become popular. More popular than other forks or the parent project. Was this the real reason for your post with mention of FOSM (and no other OSM spin-offs), and seeding fear uncertainty and doubt regarding *possible* data deletion.. you were recruiting? I'd like to think all this rather dull licence bickering will play out and OSM will continue and strengthen. It's sad that people with agendas are talking up the 'possible' deletion of data, and rushing off to fork. That energy could have been used towards working on ways of keeping or replacing the data in OSM. A satisfactory local example where things turned out well is where Nearmap made it's generous offer to allow pre-existing data to remain under the new licence. However on this list there was little rejoicing, there was a lot of picking over the actual wording of their offer; looking at the legal-eze, hairsplitting terminology or imagined loopholes in order to justify the fork projects existence. Have fun. Cheers, Chas ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 49, Issue 1
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 21:29:54 +1000 From: Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com To: OSM Australian Talk List talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes Message-ID: cad5vjsu5b7ebjfumypfah39hiokwthlebrw5ciu1rhqd+fo...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I'm interested in Australia wide, but I'm personally most interested to hear from Franc, behemoth14, rrankin, Zhent, Ebenezer, swanilli, inas, Diego, good2010, dexgps. (these are just those that come to mind from looking over recent edits in the Sydney area) I'm staying with OSM for now. To be sure, it's disappointing that Nearmap is unavailable now - particularly when it comes to mapping buildings and so-on. But there is still plenty of work to do in the areas where Bing resolution is high enough. Recently I've been mapping farm fences etc in the Yass, NSW area, where the Bing resolution is high enough to do so, aligning the Bing imagery as close as possible with previously-surveyed ways (but Nearmap was not perfect, either). ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Very cheap Garmin Vista Hcx - legit?
Hi Is anybody good at spotting eBay scams? This dude has 64 new Garmin Vista HCx's on eBay for about $120 less than comparable offers. Apart from zero feedback and the price, it looks legit to me. Hmm - any thoughts on a possible GPS bargain? (I was thinking it could be ok as Canada is awash with Garmin's and it's paypal protected.) iPhone URL: New Garmin Etrex Vista Hcx Handheld GPS Receiver Browser URL: New Garmin Etrex Vista Hcx Handheld GPS Receiver Chas ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Very cheap Garmin Vista Hcx - legit?
The URLs you sent didnt work here, but personally Ive bought a few GPS receivers from dealextreme.com Theyre a hong kong based business but have free shipping and low prices. I think my GPS data logger cost about $15 there. Most of their LCD GPS units simply run windows CE so you simply have to root them and install your choice of nav software. Much cheaper than buying a brand-name Garmin. Infact, my dealextreme GPS has outlasted 2 navmans and a garmin that have given up over the years. David On Thu, 2011-07-07 at 10:05 +1000, Christopher Barham wrote: Hi Is anybody good at spotting eBay scams? This dude has 64 new Garmin Vista HCx's on eBay for about $120 less than comparable offers. Apart from zero feedback and the price, it looks legit to me. Hmm - any thoughts on a possible GPS bargain? (I was thinking it could be ok as Canada is awash with Garmin's and it's paypal protected.) iPhone URL: New Garmin Etrex Vista Hcx Handheld GPS Receiver Browser URL: New Garmin Etrex Vista Hcx Handheld GPS Receiver Chas ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [Talk-br] OpenStreetMap no Android
Você pode baixar os mapas daqui: http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/south-america/ (baixe o PBF, o OsmAnd reconhece). A atualização é semanal, se não me engano. O OsmAnd permite atualizar nomes de vias e sentido ? O iOS tem alguma aplicação que permita isso ? Se não tiver, alguém quer me ajudar a desenvolver ? Um abraço, Diogo 2011/7/4 Leonardo Gomes leogol...@yahoo.com.br Obrigado por responder. Estou querendo ajudar nomeando ruas e em alguns casos identificando o sentido (mão) a rua tem. O OsmAnd é bastante interessante !!! Agora como vocês fazem para baixarem o mapa da Cidade do Rio de Janeiro completo ??? Eu ainda não entendi bem essa parte de download de mapas, estou baixando aos pedaços pelo OsmAndMapCreator. Se alguém souber como baixar a cidade toda, ou se existe um mapa já pronto para baixar, que seja atualizado constantemente. Qual é o tempo de atualização dos mapas openstreet ??? Como faço para checar as versões para saber se já foi atualizado. Pois sabendo da atualização, posso checar minhas contribuições para ver se há necessidade de corrigir. On 04-07-2011 02:04, Arlindo Pereira wrote: Olá Leonardo, saudações cariocas! :) Legal ver que tem mais alguém do Rio por aqui. Para usar os mapas no celular, existem vários aplicativos disponíveis. Um dos que eu mais gosto é o OsmAnd. https://market.android.com/**details?id=net.osmandhttps://market.android.com/details?id=net.osmand Para capturar trilhas e contribuir com o projeto, também há algumas opções disponíveis; uma das melhores é o Osmtracker. https://market.android.com/**details?id=me.guillaumin.** android.osmtrackerhttps://market.android.com/details?id=me.guillaumin.android.osmtracker De qualquer maneira, você pode contribuir com o projeto de outras maneiras que só capturando trilhas, como utilizando o editor direto no site (Potlatch) ou editando com o JOSM. []s 2011/7/3 Leonardo Gomesleogol...@yahoo.com.br: Prezados, Alguém usa os mapas do OpenStreetMap em celulares android ? Poderia dar umas dicas de como usar ? Acho que falta algumas informações sobre utilizar e baixar os mapas, consegui algo, baixar o osm usando o JOSM, GPSMid e o OsmGpsMid, mas nada funcional. Sou usuário linux e moro na maravilhosa cidade. Pesquisei no Google, mas acredito que não devo ter perguntado direito, pois suas respostas não foram satisfatórias. Quem sabe conseguindo um tutorial de como usar no celular, gravar uns logs e de como contribuir para o projeto, eu consiga contribuir quem sabe um pouco. Grato. __**_ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-brhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br __**_ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-brhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br __**_ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-brhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
[Talk-de] Stammtische im Wiki-Terminkalender reduzieren?
Hallo, auf unsrem (internationalen) Wiki sind ja alle Stammtisch-Termine weltweit aufgelistet. Von 83 Terminen, die dort eingetragen sind, sind 71 in Deutschland, und 69 davon sind Stammtischtermine. Dem unbedarften Besucher aus, sagen wir, Mexico City muss es also so vorkommen, als ob sich OSM zu ca. 80% in deutschen Kneipen abspielt ;) Ich frage mich, ob wir uns hier vielleicht aus Ruecksicht (oder auch: wegweisend - denn man stelle sich vor, was ist, wenn erst andere Laender ebenso viele Stammtische haben) ein bisschen zuruecknehmen sollten. Als OSM-Stammtische in Deutschland noch selten waren, war es ok, die stolz in diese Liste einzutragen, und auch heute noch faende ich einen OSM-Stammtisch in einem Land mit eher kleiner Community durchaus einer ueberregionalen Nachricht wert. Aber wir ueberfluten diese Terminseite mit unseren Veranstaltungen derart, dass alles andere untergeht. Bislang hat sich da keiner Gedanken drum gemacht, und der Mexikaner, der stolz seinen ersten OSM-Stammtisch organisiert, zu dem die Leute 100km weit anreisen, wird wohl kaum zu uns sagen: He, gebt mal nicht so an da. (Oder was immer das auf Spanisch heisst.) Was koennten wir tun, um die restliche OSM-Welt nicht so zu erdruecken? Sollten wir vielleicht einfach eine Extra-Kalenderseite Regular pub meets in Germany machen? Oder (Mediawiki-Experten an die Front...) koennte man das irgendwie so bauen, dass man im Wiki-Source statt {{cal_social}} ein {{cal_social_germany}} schreibt und dann irgendwie einen einblenden/ausblenden-Link hat, so dass jemand, den es interessiert, sich die deutschen Stammtische anzeigen lasssen kann, aber nicht jeder gleich davon begruesst wird? Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Stammtische im Wiki-Terminkalender reduzieren?
Hi! ein Problem ist ja, dass viele Stammtische jeden Monat stattfinden und der Kalender 6 Monate umfasst, sie also mehrfach auftreten. Man könnte vielleicht jeweils nur den nächsten Termin davon darstellen und alle weiteren erst nach Klick auf wiederkehrende Termine einblenden oder sowas. Jochen On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 09:47:51AM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 09:47:51 +0200 From: Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org To: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch talk-de@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-de] Stammtische im Wiki-Terminkalender reduzieren? Hallo, auf unsrem (internationalen) Wiki sind ja alle Stammtisch-Termine weltweit aufgelistet. Von 83 Terminen, die dort eingetragen sind, sind 71 in Deutschland, und 69 davon sind Stammtischtermine. Dem unbedarften Besucher aus, sagen wir, Mexico City muss es also so vorkommen, als ob sich OSM zu ca. 80% in deutschen Kneipen abspielt ;) Ich frage mich, ob wir uns hier vielleicht aus Ruecksicht (oder auch: wegweisend - denn man stelle sich vor, was ist, wenn erst andere Laender ebenso viele Stammtische haben) ein bisschen zuruecknehmen sollten. Als OSM-Stammtische in Deutschland noch selten waren, war es ok, die stolz in diese Liste einzutragen, und auch heute noch faende ich einen OSM-Stammtisch in einem Land mit eher kleiner Community durchaus einer ueberregionalen Nachricht wert. Aber wir ueberfluten diese Terminseite mit unseren Veranstaltungen derart, dass alles andere untergeht. Bislang hat sich da keiner Gedanken drum gemacht, und der Mexikaner, der stolz seinen ersten OSM-Stammtisch organisiert, zu dem die Leute 100km weit anreisen, wird wohl kaum zu uns sagen: He, gebt mal nicht so an da. (Oder was immer das auf Spanisch heisst.) Was koennten wir tun, um die restliche OSM-Welt nicht so zu erdruecken? Sollten wir vielleicht einfach eine Extra-Kalenderseite Regular pub meets in Germany machen? Oder (Mediawiki-Experten an die Front...) koennte man das irgendwie so bauen, dass man im Wiki-Source statt {{cal_social}} ein {{cal_social_germany}} schreibt und dann irgendwie einen einblenden/ausblenden-Link hat, so dass jemand, den es interessiert, sich die deutschen Stammtische anzeigen lasssen kann, aber nicht jeder gleich davon begruesst wird? Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Redundanz?
Moin, bevor ich einen Editwar beginnen, wollte ich nur klären, ob ich da falsch liege... Es geht darum, wenn mehrere Bänke an einem Platz stehen. Ich hab immer einen Node für jede Bank gesetzt. Nun geht ein User in Ilmenau durch und löscht die Bänke. Auf unserem Kirchplatz stehen jeweils Bäumchen mit Bänken, er machte daraus einen Baum mit Bank. Er verweist darauf, dass mehrere Bänke an einem Ort redundant sind und es ausreicht nur eine zu malen. Gibt es da eine Redundanz-Regel, die ich nicht kenne? MfG Andreas -- Diese Nachricht wurde maschinell erstellt und ist daher ohne Unterschrift gültig. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Redundanz?
Am 6. Juli 2011 10:50 schrieb Andreas Neumann andr-neum...@gmx.net: bevor ich einen Editwar beginnen, wollte ich nur klären, ob ich da falsch liege... Es geht darum, wenn mehrere Bänke an einem Platz stehen. Ich hab immer einen Node für jede Bank gesetzt. Nun geht ein User in Ilmenau durch und löscht die Bänke. Auf unserem Kirchplatz stehen jeweils Bäumchen mit Bänken, er machte daraus einen Baum mit Bank. Er verweist darauf, dass mehrere Bänke an einem Ort redundant sind und es ausreicht nur eine zu malen. Gibt es da eine Redundanz-Regel, die ich nicht kenne? hm, Baum und Bank auf demselben Node mag OK sein, aber bei mehreren benachbarten Bänken alle bis auf eine zu löschen ist m.E. Vandalismus. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Europakarte auf Vista HCX
Hallo Carsten, Dirk et al., ich suche eine routingfähige Garminkarte für Mitteleuropa. Ist das Vista HCX zu alt, um die Karte in zwei Dateien zu laden? Kann ich die halbe eu_rout_gmapsupp1.img.gz irgendwie in eine allein lauffähige Karte halb Europas konvertieren? Ein Versuch, mit qlandkarte fünf Kacheln ans GPS zu schicken, hat geklappt. Also hab ich im nächsten Anlauf alle Kacheln ausgewählt, die ich brauchen könnte. Es wurde eine gmapsupp.img von 900 MB fehlerfrei erzeugt, das Vista liest sie beim Start auch ohne Fehlermeldung ein, nur bleibt die Karte und die Liste der Kartennamen leer. Gruß, Fabian. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Redundanz?
Am 06.07.2011 11:03, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: Am 6. Juli 2011 10:50 schrieb Andreas Neumannandr-neum...@gmx.net: bevor ich einen Editwar beginnen, wollte ich nur klären, ob ich da falsch liege... Es geht darum, wenn mehrere Bänke an einem Platz stehen. Ich hab immer einen Node für jede Bank gesetzt. Nun geht ein User in Ilmenau durch und löscht die Bänke. Auf unserem Kirchplatz stehen jeweils Bäumchen mit Bänken, er machte daraus einen Baum mit Bank. Er verweist darauf, dass mehrere Bänke an einem Ort redundant sind und es ausreicht nur eine zu malen. Gibt es da eine Redundanz-Regel, die ich nicht kenne? hm, Baum und Bank auf demselben Node mag OK sein, aber bei mehreren benachbarten Bänken alle bis auf eine zu löschen ist m.E. Vandalismus. Gruß Martin Zwei Reizwörter in Anfrage und erster Antwort. Na das wird heiter :) Es gibt m.E. keine Redundanz-REgel bei OSM. Im Gegenteil, ich kenne nur die ungeschriebene Regel: Jeder so detailliert, wie er es in seiner Umgebung erfassen kann und will. Eine Grenze im Detailgrad gibt es wohl nur in der Auflösung der Editoren. Ein Problem mit dem Umfang der erfassten Daten gibt es jedenfalls nicht, also kann das auch nicht als Begründung herangezogen werden. Claudius ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Stammtische im Wiki-Terminkalender reduzieren?
Am 6. Juli 2011 09:47 schrieb Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: Was koennten wir tun, um die restliche OSM-Welt nicht so zu erdruecken? Sollten wir vielleicht einfach eine Extra-Kalenderseite Regular pub meets in Germany machen? Ja, man könnte die Pub-meetings nach Ländern sortieren und auf Unterseiten unterbringen. Andererseits ist das mit den Symbolen schon ganz gut gelöst, so dass man die wichtigeren Termine eigentlich auf einen Blick von den Stammtischen visuell unterscheiden kann. Ich finde es ist durchaus auch eine gute Werbung für die Community, wenn viele persönliche Zusammenkünfte dort eingetragen sind. Dass das meiste in Deutschland stattfindet ist ja kein Zufall, die Mapping-Community ist dort auch auch stärksten ;-), d.h. OSM spielt sich wirklich zu einem großen Prozentsatz in deutschen Kneipen ab, das kommt nicht nur dem Mexikaner so vor ;-) M.E. sind wir gerade so am Limit angekommen was die Länge der Liste angeht, d.h. die Unterseiten nach Ländern oder ein dynamisches Ausblenden auf der Hauptseite sind beides gute Ideen für die nahe Zukunft, wenn die Liste wie zu erwarten weiter wächst. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Redundanz?
Am 6. Juli 2011 10:50 schrieb Andreas Neumann andr-neum...@gmx.net: bevor ich einen Editwar beginnen, wollte ich nur klären, ob ich da falsch liege... Es geht darum, wenn mehrere Bänke an einem Platz stehen. Ich hab immer einen Node für jede Bank gesetzt. Nun geht ein User in Ilmenau durch und löscht die Bänke. Auf unserem Kirchplatz stehen jeweils Bäumchen mit Bänken, er machte daraus einen Baum mit Bank. Er verweist darauf, dass mehrere Bänke an einem Ort redundant sind und es ausreicht nur eine zu malen. Gibt es da eine Redundanz-Regel, die ich nicht kenne? Vielleicht könnt ihr euch ja darauf einigen, dass die nahe beieinander stehenden Bänke über eine site-Relation zusammengefasst werden. So erreicht man auch die Abstarktion, die der andere Nutzer offenbar wünscht. (mir ist durchaus bewusst, dass ich damit den den Anwendungsbereich der site-relation über ihre ursprüngliche Intention ausdehne.) Im übrigen ist das ein ungeklärtes Problem ob und welche Detailgrenzen/Abstraktionsgrad Daten haben sollten. Solange man das aber noch einigermaßen mit GPS-Gerät erfassen kann ist meiner Meinung nach noch kein Platz für diese Diskussion :-) Gruß, Falk ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Redundanz?
Am 6. Juli 2011 11:24 schrieb Falk Zscheile falk.zsche...@googlemail.com: Vielleicht könnt ihr euch ja darauf einigen, dass die nahe beieinander stehenden Bänke über eine site-Relation zusammengefasst werden. -1, wozu sollte das gut sein? Es ist ein Leichtes, nahe zusammenstehende Bänke _im Postprocessing_ zusammenzufassen, in den Daten will man die m.E. alle haben, und eine Relation erhöht unnötig die Komplexität (dass die in der Nähe stehen ist bereits in den Daten). Im übrigen ist das ein ungeklärtes Problem ob und welche Detailgrenzen/Abstraktionsgrad Daten haben sollten. M.E. regelt das der Mapper. Hinterher die Abstraktion in den Grunddaten (db) zu erhöhen halte ich für Vandalismus (*reiz*), vorhandene Daten in der eigenen db-Kopie zu abstrahieren ist ggf. wünschenswert. Solange man das aber noch einigermaßen mit GPS-Gerät erfassen kann ist meiner Meinung nach noch kein Platz für diese Diskussion :-) man kann sowas wie Bänke durchaus auch per Foto erfassen, und dann z.B. den ungefähren Abstand und die Lage erkennen, GPS ist da meistens eher nicht genau genug, ovn daher ist das m.E. auch kein Kriterium. Was die Abstraktion von Bänken grundsätzlich angeht macht man da ja schon einiges, sonst müsste man die Bänke als area oder evtl. als kurzen way eintragen, dann könnte man sich auch (analog zu cliff oder retaining wall) auf einen Standard einigen, wo die Rückenlehne falls vorhanden ist (bezogen auf die way-Richtung), und hätte die Information, wie die Bank ausgerichtet ist. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Redundanz?
On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 10:50:41AM +0200, Andreas Neumann wrote: Moin, bevor ich einen Editwar beginnen, wollte ich nur klären, ob ich da falsch liege... Es geht darum, wenn mehrere Bänke an einem Platz stehen. Ich hab immer einen Node für jede Bank gesetzt. Nun geht ein User in Ilmenau durch und löscht die Bänke. Auf unserem Kirchplatz stehen jeweils Bäumchen mit Bänken, er machte daraus einen Baum mit Bank. Er verweist darauf, dass mehrere Bänke an einem Ort redundant sind und es ausreicht nur eine zu malen. Gibt es da eine Redundanz-Regel, die ich nicht kenne? Aeh? Stehen alle Baeume und Baenke auf exakt derselben Position? Wenn nicht dann muessen sie doch rein logisch schon einzeln gezeichnet werden. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de „Für eine ausgewogene Energiepolitik über das Jahr 2020 hinaus ist die Nutzung von Atomenergie eine Brückentechnologie und unverzichtbar. Ein Ausstieg in zehn Jahren, wie noch unter der rot-grünen Regierung beschlossen, kommt für die nationale Energieversorgung zu abrupt.“ Angela Merkel CDU 30.8.2009 signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Redundanz?
Am 6. Juli 2011 11:36 schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: Am 6. Juli 2011 11:24 schrieb Falk Zscheile falk.zsche...@googlemail.com: Vielleicht könnt ihr euch ja darauf einigen, dass die nahe beieinander stehenden Bänke über eine site-Relation zusammengefasst werden. -1, wozu sollte das gut sein? Es ist ein Leichtes, nahe zusammenstehende Bänke _im Postprocessing_ zusammenzufassen, in den Daten will man die m.E. alle haben, und eine Relation erhöht unnötig die Komplexität (dass die in der Nähe stehen ist bereits in den Daten). Na wenn Du das sagst^^ Falls Du es noch nicht gemerkt hast -- es geht nicht um die allein selig machende Wahrheit sondern um einen Kompromiss der einen Editwar vermeidet. Im übrigen ist das ein ungeklärtes Problem ob und welche Detailgrenzen/Abstraktionsgrad Daten haben sollten. M.E. regelt das der Mapper. Hinterher die Abstraktion in den Grunddaten (db) zu erhöhen halte ich für Vandalismus (*reiz*), vorhandene Daten in der eigenen db-Kopie zu abstrahieren ist ggf. wünschenswert. Diese Meinung teile ich nicht. Zu viele Details können das eigene Mapen erheblich erschweren oder gar unmöglich machen. Das hält andere vom Mappen ab und macht es Einsteigern schwere als nötig. Aber wie gesagt, im vorliegenden Fall sehe ich die (notwendige) Detailgrenze noch nicht erreicht. Vertagen wir den Streit also noch einmal bis wir ein Thema finden, wo er relevant ist. Solange man das aber noch einigermaßen mit GPS-Gerät erfassen kann ist meiner Meinung nach noch kein Platz für diese Diskussion :-) man kann sowas wie Bänke durchaus auch per Foto erfassen, und dann z.B. den ungefähren Abstand und die Lage erkennen, GPS ist da meistens eher nicht genau genug, ovn daher ist das m.E. auch kein Kriterium. Aha, und das ist dann genauer/besser? Ich denke dieses Beispiel zeigt schön, dass hier irgendwo eine Grenze bei der Datengenauigkeit liegt. Falk ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Sommeraufgabe 2011
Moin ! Der Sommerurlaub steht für viele vor der Tür und was liegt da näher als am Urlaubsort auch einwenig zu mappen. Neben den einfachen Dingen wie Postkästen, Bierstuben etc. gibt es auch größere Objekte die in der Regel die Zusammenarbeit mehrerer erfordern - ich spreche hier vornehmlich von den Rad- und Wanderwegen. Aus diesem Grunde wurde diese Liste aufgebaut um es dem Gast es etwas einfacher zu machen um sich vor Ort zu orientieren was die Mapper-Kollegen für interessant erachten. So kann man dann mal mit der Familie eine Tour machen und mit einem Auge die Symbole verfolgen und notieren. Aus diesem Grunde habe ich im Wiki einmal eine Seite [1] eingerichtet - vielleicht trägt der eine oder andere etwas nach und es findet sich der eine oder andere etwas davon zu erfassen. Aber nicht jede Kleinigkeit bitte, denn dann hätte ich gleich auf einen größeren Teil des Wikis verweisen können. Gruß Jan :-) [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Sommeraufgabe2011 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Redundanz?
Würde man statt einem Waldstück jeden einzelnen Baum erfassen? Warum nicht? Vielleicht mit Pilzbewuchs und ohne als Tag? Die Frage ist doch immer wieviel ist ausreichend und macht Sinn? Und ist ist das Konstrukt noch allgemein durchschaubar? Gruß Sven Am Mittwoch, 6. Juli 2011, 11:40:06 schrieb Florian Lohoff: On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 10:50:41AM +0200, Andreas Neumann wrote: Moin, bevor ich einen Editwar beginnen, wollte ich nur klären, ob ich da falsch liege... Es geht darum, wenn mehrere Bänke an einem Platz stehen. Ich hab immer einen Node für jede Bank gesetzt. Nun geht ein User in Ilmenau durch und löscht die Bänke. Auf unserem Kirchplatz stehen jeweils Bäumchen mit Bänken, er machte daraus einen Baum mit Bank. Er verweist darauf, dass mehrere Bänke an einem Ort redundant sind und es ausreicht nur eine zu malen. Gibt es da eine Redundanz-Regel, die ich nicht kenne? Aeh? Stehen alle Baeume und Baenke auf exakt derselben Position? Wenn nicht dann muessen sie doch rein logisch schon einzeln gezeichnet werden. Flo -- „Zwanghaftes Arbeiten allein würde die Menschen ebenso verrückt machen wie absolutes Nichtstun. Erst durch die Kombination beider Komponenten wird das Leben erträglich.“ Erich Fromm (1900-80), amerik. Psychoanalytiker dt. Herkunft ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Windows: kacheln zippen und dann auf dem Serverwieder entpacken
... ... umgekehrt - ich muss erst einmal auf windows7 packen und dann das richtige entpackscript auf dem zerver haben ! hast Du mir dem Teil schon einaml das Bündeln von Dateien in verschachtelten Verzeichnissen realisiert bekommen ?? such mal nach tar bzw. komprimiere dann mit bzip (tar.bz2). komprimieren mit bz2 geht z.B. so: tar -cvjf archivname.tar.bz2 zusicherndedateibzwordnername Entpacken auf dem Server sollte so gehen: tar -xvjf dateiname.tar.bz2 Das ist rekursiv, d.h. die Ordnerstruktur wird beibehalten. Gruß Martin Moin ! ich habe es jetzt hinbekommen mit folgenden Zeilen im Batch-File: set filename=surface_hl_tiles C:\Program Files (x86)\7-Zip\7z.exe a -r %filename%.tar tiles C:\Program Files (x86)\7-Zip\7z.exe a -r %filename%.tar *.txt C:\Program Files (x86)\7-Zip\7z.exe a %filename%.tar.bz2 %filename%.tar echo loeschen der tar-Datei del %filename%.tar /F /Q Wichtig bei Upload per FTP ist dann noch der BINARY-Mode Sonst kommt nur Mist auf dem Server an. Das Entpacken mache ich jetzt mit der Version wie Brogo [1] dieses beschrieben hat. gruß jan :-) [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Brogo#Hochladen_vieler_Tiles_auf_einen_Webserver ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] highway=axis
Hallo, Am Mittwoch, 6. Juli 2011 00:50:43 schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: einerseits sehe ich es gerade bei Autobahnen schwierig an, dort vor Ort genaue Maße zu erheben, damit hast du recht, die wenigsten Mapper werden die Gelegenheit eines Staus nutzen und schnell die Mittelstreifenbreite mit dem Zollstock mappen ;-) und andererseits hast Du diese Breite automatisch, indem Du dem Abstand der highway-ways jeweils die halbe Breite abziehst. Im Prinzip ja, aber bedingt durch die praktische Mapping-Genauigkeit schwankt dieser Wert zu stark. Der Sinn könnte darin bestehen, über einen weiteren Wert die Plausibilität der Straßen-tags und -lage zu schätzen, aber da kommt wieder Punkt 1 ins Spiel: die Mittelstreifenbreite kannst Du schwer messen. +1. Vorausgesetzt man bekommt, auf welchem Weg auch immer, hier genauere Daten, könnte man durch eine Abstandsberechnung der 3 Ways die Plausibilität der Ways zueinander prüfen und so zumindest einen Teil der Fehler mit einem Tool markieren. die Luftbilder die wir haben, werden ziemlich sicher auch in Deutschland irgendwann besser werden, wenn die Ämter das irgendwann mal rausgeben. 2-3 Meter sind m.E. im Autobahnbereich schon sehr gut, wenn wir das überall hinbekämen wäre ich ziemlich zufrieden. Es wäre auch denkbar, dass man sich mal entschließt, die Koordinaten rauszugeben, wenn man irgendwann in den Amtsstuben schnallt, dass die Geheimhaltung eigenlich nur die Ämter selbst schädigt. zudem soll hier eine imaginäre Mittellinie gezeichnet werden, die es in der Realität gar nicht gibt. damit meinst Du den highway-way. Davon werden wir uns so schnell sicher nicht verabschieden, d.h. den braucht man auf jeden Fall. Das ist die Fahrbahnmitte, die ist zwar nicht markiert, aber geben tut es die natürlich auch in der Realität. Ich habe nicht vor, das Mappen der Einzelfahrbahnen abzuschaffen. In den größeren Maßstabsstufen und für die Router hat das ganz klare praktische Vorteile. Die Fahrbahnmitte sehe ich bei 2 und 4 Spuren auf der gestrichelten Linie, bei 3 Spuren in der Mitte der mittleren Spur. Finde ich problemlos umzusetzen, während die Achse meistens schlechter zu erkennen ist, sowas hier ist natürlich nochmal ein Sonderfall: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=dell=42.277158,14.018211spn=0.001046,0.002 642t=kz=19 http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.011694,13.807771spn=0.002101,0.005284t =kz=18 die Spuren behalten normalerweise ihre Breite, die Mittelachse ändert Ihre Breite öfters mal, sieh mal was hier z.B. los ist (in der Gegend gibts noch mehr krasse Stellen): http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=dell=40.685438,14.761569spn=0.004288,0.010 568t=kz=17 Im Bereich von Fahrbahntrennungen hast du damit durchaus recht. Hier macht es u.U. auch Sinn, auf eine Mittelachse zu verzichten und den einzelnen Ways zu folgen. PS: Meiner Meinung nach kann man mit der Relation mehr aussagen, besser rendern und routen und hat weniger Arbeit, aber mir ist es im Prinzip egal wenn Du gerne die Trennflächen als Linien erfassen willst, und man die Tags halbwegs verstehen kann, auch ohne Übersetzen ins Deutsche, dann kann und will ich Dich nicht davon abhalten. +1, ich hatte nicht vor, etwas gegen deine Nutzung von Relationen zu sagen. Über die Tags werde ich mal nachdenken, der Begriff centreline z.B. scheint doch günstiger zu sein. Gruß, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Sommeraufgabe 2011
Hallo, Am Mittwoch, 6. Juli 2011 12:20:32 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck (OSM): Moin ! Der Sommerurlaub steht für viele vor der Tür und was liegt da näher als am Urlaubsort auch einwenig zu mappen. ... um 14 Uhr dann Beachvolleyball am Zentralstrand und um 16 Uhr Wasserball im Pool ... scnr, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Sommeraufgabe 2011
Am 6. Juli 2011 12:20 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck (OSM) o...@tappenbeck.net: [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Sommeraufgabe2011 nette Idee, ich habe mal ein paar Hinweise für Italien ergänzt. Hast Du das auch im Forum gepostet? Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Redundanz?
Am 6. Juli 2011 11:53 schrieb Falk Zscheile falk.zsche...@googlemail.com: Aha, und das ist dann genauer/besser? Ich denke dieses Beispiel zeigt schön, dass hier irgendwo eine Grenze bei der Datengenauigkeit liegt. Klar gibt es eine Grenze bei der Datengenauigkeit, aber die besteht eben nicht nur in der absoluten Lage der Objekte sondern auch in der relativen Lage und in der Konfiguration. Z.B. macht es einen Unterschied, ob 5 Bänke in einer Reihe stehen, oder ob sie ein U bilden. Auch kommt es darauf an, auf welcher Seite eines Weges / Bushhaltestelle, Telefonzelle, Einmündung, etc. sie stehen (relative Lage). Das ist m.E. viel wichtiger als die genaue Lage auf den cm. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Sommeraufgabe 2011
Am 06.07.2011 13:13, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: Am 6. Juli 2011 12:20 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck (OSM)o...@tappenbeck.net: [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Sommeraufgabe2011 nette Idee, ich habe mal ein paar Hinweise für Italien ergänzt. Hast Du das auch im Forum gepostet? Gruß Martin Das mit den Luftbildern war noch eine gute Idee ! Gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Redundanz?
Am 6. Juli 2011 12:27 schrieb Sven Sommerkamp s_sommerk...@gmx.de: Würde man statt einem Waldstück jeden einzelnen Baum erfassen? Warum nicht? ja, warum nicht. Vielleicht mit Pilzbewuchs und ohne als Tag? warum nicht, wenn man Zeit, Lust und Interesse daran hat. Die Frage ist doch immer wieviel ist ausreichend und macht Sinn? Und ist ist das Konstrukt noch allgemein durchschaubar? ja, wobei das bei der Aufnahme wieder der einzelne Mapper entscheidet, während das Löschen m.E. mind. einen Dialog/Diskussion erfordert. Und wenn jemand einzelne Bäume gezeichnet hat ist es m.E. eben nicht OK, die alle zu löschen, eine Fläche drumrum zu malen und zu deklarieren, das war davor zu detailliert und zu wenig abstrakt. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] was ist map2go ?
Am 03.07.2011 07:42, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: hi ! habe gerade den Link http://www.map2go.org/maps/ gefunden - kann mir einer sagen was das ist oder dahinter steckt ?? Ich finde kein Impressium und sonstigen Texte !! Gruß Jan :-) Keine Ahnung, WhoIs zeigt: Registrant Name:Thorsten Hildebrand Registrant Street1:map2go.org, office #2029973 Registrant Street2:c/o OwO, BP80157 Registrant Street3: Registrant City:Roubaix Cedex 1 Registrant State/Province: Registrant Postal Code:59053 Registrant Country:FR Registrant Phone:+33.899701761 Registrant Phone Ext.: Registrant FAX: Registrant FAX Ext.: Registrant Email:9ojfwv7mf6o7yxr51...@w.o-w-o.info Die Telefonnummer verweist auf: OVH (vereinfachte Aktiengesellschaft mit einem Kapital von 500.000 €) Handelsregister von Roubaix – Tourcoing 424 761 419 00011 APE-Code 721Z – USt-IdNr.: FR 22-424-761-419-00011 Geschäftssitz: 140 Quai du Sartel, 59100 Roubaix (Frankreich). Tel.: +33 (0)899 701 761 Elektronische Kontaktaufnahme: Kontaktformular auf der Website www.ovh.com. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Europakarte auf Vista HCX
Hallo Fabian, Am 06.07.2011 11:09, schrieb Fabian Schmidt: ich suche eine routingfähige Garminkarte für Mitteleuropa. Ist das Vista HCX zu alt, um die Karte in zwei Dateien zu laden? Ja, die Software erwartet nur eine Kartendatei und diese heißt gmapsupp.img. Kann ich die halbe eu_rout_gmapsupp1.img.gz irgendwie in eine allein lauffähige Karte halb Europas konvertieren? Die halbe EU-Datei von mir ist in sich schon lauffähig, aber sie deckt keinen Teil von Europa geschlossen ab, sondern ist einfach die Hälfte der Kacheln unzusammenhängend. (Kommt durch die einfache Herstellung) Ein Versuch, mit qlandkarte fünf Kacheln ans GPS zu schicken, hat geklappt. Also hab ich im nächsten Anlauf alle Kacheln ausgewählt, die Das ist ja schonmal gut. ich brauchen könnte. Es wurde eine gmapsupp.img von 900 MB fehlerfrei erzeugt, das Vista liest sie beim Start auch ohne Fehlermeldung ein, nur bleibt die Karte und die Liste der Kartennamen leer. Dann ist in der Erzeugung doch ein Fehler aufgetreten, oder Du hast die Datei nicht komplett auf die Speicherkarte kopiert. Hier mußt Du sehr genau darauf achten, daß alle Daten geschrieben sind. (Also Am Besten unter Linux ein sync und dann die Karte auswerfen, bei Windows sollte das Auswerfen reichen. Es dauert ewig bei den großen Dateien, bis da alles geschrieben ist, trotz USB2). Eventuell ist auch QLandkarte zu alt, da gab es mal ne Version, die keine funktionierenden gmapsupps erstellt hat. -- Viele Gruesse Computerteddy ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Stammtische im Wiki-Terminkalender reduzieren?
Hi, On 07/06/11 11:14, M?rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: Ja, man könnte die Pub-meetings nach Ländern sortieren und auf Unterseiten unterbringen. Eigentlich finde ich, dass ausser Deutschland kein Land eine Unterseite braeuchte ;) oder, wenn Du gern eine allgemeingueltige Regel haettest, wuerde ich etwa so formulieren: Sobald von einem Veranstaltungstyp in einem Land regelmaessig mehr als 10 Veranstaltungen im Kalender stehen, sollte eine Unterseite in Betracht gezogen werden. Oder sowas. Andererseits ist das mit den Symbolen schon ganz gut gelöst, so dass man die wichtigeren Termine eigentlich auf einen Blick von den Stammtischen visuell unterscheiden kann. Die Sache ist, dass ein Stammtisch in Mexico City (z.B.) m.E. durchaus seine Berechtigung auf der Hauptseite haette (als etwas besonderes - der einzige auf seinem Kontintent oder so). Ich finde es ist durchaus auch eine gute Werbung für die Community, wenn viele persönliche Zusammenkünfte dort eingetragen sind. [...] Dass das meiste in Deutschland stattfindet ist ja kein Zufall, die Mapping-Community ist dort auch auch stärksten ;-), d.h. OSM spielt sich wirklich zu einem großen Prozentsatz in deutschen Kneipen ab, das kommt nicht nur dem Mexikaner so vor ;-) Aber ist das denn eine gute Werbung? Kommt Leute, schliesst Euch diesem deutschen Projekt an ;) Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Redundanz?
On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 12:27:29PM +0200, Sven Sommerkamp wrote: Würde man statt einem Waldstück jeden einzelnen Baum erfassen? Warum nicht? Vielleicht mit Pilzbewuchs und ohne als Tag? Ist das nicht vielleicht was anderes? Begriffstechnisch ist schon Wald nicht gleich Baum. Wohingegen Bench gleich Bench ist und nicht gruppe von benches auf diesem Platz verteilt. mit landuser=forrest beschreibe ich eine nutzung - mit natural=tree beschreibe ich einen einzelnen baum. Die Frage ist doch immer wieviel ist ausreichend und macht Sinn? Nein - es gibt kein ausreichend. Jeder darf so viel und so detailreich mappen wie er will solange er nicht dadurch den anderen die nutzung kaputt macht. Wenn hier einige die Straßen als Flaechen mappen wollen - bitte sehr - solange halt fuer die routingalgorhythmen die mittellinie da bleibt. Das ICH da wenig von halte ist doch unerheblich. Und ist ist das Konstrukt noch allgemein durchschaubar? Was ist daran nicht durchschaubar wenn ich eine flaeche highway=pedestrian area=yes habe und darauf viele nodes mit amenity=bench? Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de „Für eine ausgewogene Energiepolitik über das Jahr 2020 hinaus ist die Nutzung von Atomenergie eine Brückentechnologie und unverzichtbar. Ein Ausstieg in zehn Jahren, wie noch unter der rot-grünen Regierung beschlossen, kommt für die nationale Energieversorgung zu abrupt.“ Angela Merkel CDU 30.8.2009 signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Redundanz?
On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 01:27:00PM +0200, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 6. Juli 2011 12:27 schrieb Sven Sommerkamp s_sommerk...@gmx.de: Würde man statt einem Waldstück jeden einzelnen Baum erfassen? Warum nicht? ja, warum nicht. Vielleicht nicht anstatt sondern zusaetzlich? Das machen die Kommunen im Baumkataster auch. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de „Für eine ausgewogene Energiepolitik über das Jahr 2020 hinaus ist die Nutzung von Atomenergie eine Brückentechnologie und unverzichtbar. Ein Ausstieg in zehn Jahren, wie noch unter der rot-grünen Regierung beschlossen, kommt für die nationale Energieversorgung zu abrupt.“ Angela Merkel CDU 30.8.2009 signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Redundanz?
Hi, On 07/06/11 13:27, M?rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: Die Frage ist doch immer wieviel ist ausreichend und macht Sinn? Und ist ist das Konstrukt noch allgemein durchschaubar? ja, wobei das bei der Aufnahme wieder der einzelne Mapper entscheidet, während das Löschen m.E. mind. einen Dialog/Diskussion erfordert. Und wenn jemand einzelne Bäume gezeichnet hat ist es m.E. eben nicht OK, die alle zu löschen, eine Fläche drumrum zu malen und zu deklarieren, das war davor zu detailliert und zu wenig abstrakt. Martin bringt es auf den Punkt, finde ich - und das ist es, was in dieser Sache zu kurz gekommen zu sein scheint: Der Respekt vor der Arbeit des einzelnen Mappers. Wenn jemand mit viel Muehe und aus welchem Grund auch immer einzelne Baenke und Baeume erfasst hat, dann kann ich vielleicht hier auf der Liste oder im Forum oder in einer persoenlichen Nachricht die Sinnfrage stellen, aber es steht mir nicht zu, einfach so mit der Planierraupe ueber die Arbeit anderer drueberzufahren - erst _recht_ nicht, wenn ich glaube, dabei irgendeine Regel durchzusetzen, und schon gleich _ueberhaupt_ nicht, wenn die Regel komplett erfunden ist. Der Benutzer hat natuerlich recht, wenn er sich denkt: Jemand, der sich von seinem iPhone zur naechstgelegenen Sitzgelegenheit mit backrest=yes leiten lassen will, dem ist es doch egal, ob an einem Ort 2 oder 8 Baenke stehen - aber das ist Sache der iPhone-Applikation und nicht Sache der Datenbank @Andreas, bitte fange aber deswegen keinen Editwar an, sondern bitte den Benutzer, Deine Baenke wiederherzustellen. Wenn er das nicht macht, dann kannst Du es selbst tun. Und wenn er sie dann wieder loescht, dann soll er uns hier bitte mal seine Redundanz-Regel belegen. Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Redundanz?
Hi, On 07/06/11 14:19, Florian Lohoff wrote: Und ist ist das Konstrukt noch allgemein durchschaubar? Was ist daran nicht durchschaubar wenn ich eine flaeche highway=pedestrian area=yes habe und darauf viele nodes mit amenity=bench? +1 - in der Praxis ist es doch eher so: Je detailreicher das Mapping, desto leichter ist es verstaendlich. Hier ist ein Baum, das kann jeder mappen und jeder verstehen. Diese drei Baeume hier und diese zwei Baenke dort und dieser Muelleimer bilden gemeinsam eine sonnengeschuetzte Sitzgelegenheit Typ IIIa, *das* ist ein undurchschaubares Konstrukt. Ich sehe schon die Fragen: Wo ist bei der folgenden Anordnung von Baeumen der Node zu setzen... ;) Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Europakarte auf Vista HCX
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:All_in_one_Garmin_Map/Gebiete Ab morgen gibts es zwei bis dreimal die Woche von allen auf der Seite registierten Listen downloadbare Karten. Dirk ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Der AIOTM (All-in-One-TileManager)
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:All_in_one_Garmin_Map/Gebiete Ab morgen gibt es alle 2-3 Tage von allen dort eingetragenen Gebieten downloadbare Listen. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Stammtische im Wiki-Terminkalender reduzieren?
Hallo, das einfachste wäre es doch, die in fernerer Zukunft liegenden Stammtische mal zusammen in ein noinclude /noinclude zu packen. Unterbrochen wären diese Ausblendeblöcke nur von den Konferenzen. Schon wäre die Startseite aufgeräumter. Die Vorschau sollte aus meiner Sicht bei einem bis anderthalb Monaten liegen. Soll ich das mal machen? Grüße Tim alias Kolossos Am 06.07.2011 14:15, schrieb Frederik Ramm: Hi, On 07/06/11 11:14, M?rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: Ja, man könnte die Pub-meetings nach Ländern sortieren und auf Unterseiten unterbringen. Eigentlich finde ich, dass ausser Deutschland kein Land eine Unterseite braeuchte ;) oder, wenn Du gern eine allgemeingueltige Regel haettest, wuerde ich etwa so formulieren: Sobald von einem Veranstaltungstyp in einem Land regelmaessig mehr als 10 Veranstaltungen im Kalender stehen, sollte eine Unterseite in Betracht gezogen werden. Oder sowas. Andererseits ist das mit den Symbolen schon ganz gut gelöst, so dass man die wichtigeren Termine eigentlich auf einen Blick von den Stammtischen visuell unterscheiden kann. Die Sache ist, dass ein Stammtisch in Mexico City (z.B.) m.E. durchaus seine Berechtigung auf der Hauptseite haette (als etwas besonderes - der einzige auf seinem Kontintent oder so). Ich finde es ist durchaus auch eine gute Werbung für die Community, wenn viele persönliche Zusammenkünfte dort eingetragen sind. [...] Dass das meiste in Deutschland stattfindet ist ja kein Zufall, die Mapping-Community ist dort auch auch stärksten ;-), d.h. OSM spielt sich wirklich zu einem großen Prozentsatz in deutschen Kneipen ab, das kommt nicht nur dem Mexikaner so vor ;-) Aber ist das denn eine gute Werbung? Kommt Leute, schliesst Euch diesem deutschen Projekt an ;) Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] PRESSE: Artikel mit Erwähnung von OSM auf faz.net
http://www.faz.net/artikel/C31158/unterwegs-mit-dem-smartphone-outdoor-routenfuehrer-fuer-android-30455768.html Grüße Dominik -- Dominik Wegerle fortunequest o...@dwegerle.eu ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Stammtische im Wiki-Terminkalender reduzieren?
Hi, Kolossos wrote: Hallo, das einfachste wäre es doch, die in fernerer Zukunft liegenden Stammtische mal zusammen in ein noinclude /noinclude zu packen. Unterbrochen wären diese Ausblendeblöcke nur von den Konferenzen. Schon wäre die Startseite aufgeräumter. Von mir aus gern! Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Stammtische im Wiki-Terminkalender reduzieren?
Am 06.07.2011 19:55, schrieb Frederik Ramm: Von mir aus gern! Erledigt. Grüße Tim ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] highway=axis
Hallo, Am Freitag 01 Juli 2011 00:44:23 schrieb Frederik Ramm: PS: Gibt es das eigentlich ueberhaupt, dass Strassen und Schienen ueber die gleiche Bruecke fuehren? Ich kenne, zumindest in Deutschland, glaub ich nur separate Bruecken, selbst wenn beides direkt benachbart ist. und noch ein Beispiel dazu: zwischen Dänemark und Schweden führen Autobahn und Eisenbahn übereinander über dieselbe Brücke: http://tools.geofabrik.de/map/?type=Geofabriklon=12.83855lat=55.57586zoom=13 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Europakarte auf Vista HCX
Am 06.07.11 schrieb fla...@googlemail.com: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:All_in_one_Garmin_Map/Gebiete Ab morgen gibts es zwei bis dreimal die Woche von allen auf der Seite registierten Listen downloadbare Karten. Entsprechen die Nummern 70013xxx der Kacheln unter europe-daily/img/ und auf der Wikiseite den Nummern 63240xxx auf der Karte? Gruß, Fabian.___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Redundanz?
Moin! Am 06.07.2011 14:19, schrieb Florian Lohoff: On Wed, Jul 06, 2011 at 12:27:29PM +0200, Sven Sommerkamp wrote: Die Frage ist doch immer wieviel ist ausreichend und macht Sinn? Nein - es gibt kein ausreichend. Jeder darf so viel und so detailreich mappen wie er will solange er nicht dadurch den anderen die nutzung kaputt macht. Aber woran erkennt ein Mapper, ob nicht irgendeine Nutzung kaputt geht oder schwerwiegende Nachteile hat? Einzelne hinzugefügte POIs sind meist unproblematisch. Sobald man ein bestehendes Objekt in mehrere Einzelteile zerlegt, gibt es meist auch Nachteile. Wie könnte man z.B. bei einer Bushaltestelle mit Bank und Unterstand die Lage der drei Einzelobjekte (Haltestellenmast am Fahrbahnrand, Bank hinter dem Fußweg, Unterstand 5 m in Fahrtrichtung) abbilden ohne eine bestehende Auswertung zu schädigen? Soll man eine Straßeneinmündung mit drei kleinen Verkehrsinseln mit allen Details erfassen, wenn dadurch zehn zusätzliche Wegstücke und fünf zusätzliche Abbiegerelationen nötig werden? Wie kann der Mapper erkennen, ob es dann Probleme bei der TMC-Auswertung gibt? Wenn hier einige die Straßen als Flaechen mappen wollen - bitte sehr - solange halt fuer die routingalgorhythmen die mittellinie da bleibt. Selbst wenn keine bestehenden Daten geändert werden müssen, erschweren drei eng benachbarte Linien anderen Mappern die Arbeit und provozieren falsch verbundene Wege. Und ist ist das Konstrukt noch allgemein durchschaubar? Was ist daran nicht durchschaubar wenn ich eine flaeche highway=pedestrian area=yes habe und darauf viele nodes mit amenity=bench? Dieses Beispiel ist leicht verständlich. Andere Konstrukte, insbesondere mit mehreren beteiligten Relationen, können Mapper abschrecken oder fehlerträchtig in Erfassung und Auswertung sein. Fast jede Detailerfassung hat Vor- und Nachteile. Oft müssen wir mit den Nachteilen leben. Aber ich finde es legitim, auch Entscheidungen gegen Detailerfassung zu Gunsten eines einfacheren, generalisierten Datenmodells zu treffen. Viele Grüße Stephan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Redundanz?
Am 7. Juli 2011 00:05 schrieb Stephan Wolff s.wo...@web.de: Wie könnte man z.B. bei einer Bushaltestelle mit Bank und Unterstand die Lage der drei Einzelobjekte (Haltestellenmast am Fahrbahnrand, Bank hinter dem Fußweg, Unterstand 5 m in Fahrtrichtung) abbilden ohne eine bestehende Auswertung zu schädigen? das kommt immer darauf an, wie die Auswertung aussieht, d.h. was wie ausgewertet wird. Soll man eine Straßeneinmündung mit drei kleinen Verkehrsinseln mit allen Details erfassen, wenn dadurch zehn zusätzliche Wegstücke und fünf zusätzliche Abbiegerelationen nötig werden? ja, m.E. sollte man die Details abbilden. Werden da wirklich so viele Abbiegerelationen notwendig? Wie kann der Mapper erkennen, ob es dann Probleme bei der TMC-Auswertung gibt? gefühlsmäßig würde ich vermuten, dass das keine Auswirkungen hat, aber ganz genau habe ich mir TMC noch nicht angesehen. Selbst wenn keine bestehenden Daten geändert werden müssen, erschweren drei eng benachbarte Linien anderen Mappern die Arbeit und provozieren falsch verbundene Wege. am einfachsten ist immer eine leere Karte zu editieren. Hat Deine Maus kein Zoomrad? Was ist eng benachbart? Das ist doch nur eine Frage, wie weit man reinzoomt. Fast jede Detailerfassung hat Vor- und Nachteile. Oft müssen wir mit den Nachteilen leben. Aber ich finde es legitim, auch Entscheidungen gegen Detailerfassung zu Gunsten eines einfacheren, generalisierten Datenmodells zu treffen. ich nicht, wenn man dafür die Details anderer Leute löscht. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Redundanz?
Hallo, Stephan Wolff wrote: Nein - es gibt kein ausreichend. Jeder darf so viel und so detailreich mappen wie er will solange er nicht dadurch den anderen die nutzung kaputt macht. Aber woran erkennt ein Mapper, ob nicht irgendeine Nutzung kaputt geht oder schwerwiegende Nachteile hat? Darueber sollten ihn seine Kollegen hoeflich aufklaeren und den Fall bei Bedarf in groesserer Runde diskutieren - nicht aber einfach direkt mit dem Loeschen anfangen, oder? Selbst wenn keine bestehenden Daten geändert werden müssen, erschweren drei eng benachbarte Linien anderen Mappern die Arbeit und provozieren falsch verbundene Wege. Ja, das stimmt. Das sind zum Beispiel auch die ueblichen Argumente gegen Luftraum- oder Historien-Mapping. Aber darueber kann man ja sprechen und einen Konsens finden. Selbst (oder gerade?) einem Anfaengermapper wuerde vermutlich auffallen, wenn er ein ultrakomplizietes Konstrukt baut, das er selber nachher nicht mehr aendern kann ;) Im konkreten Fall ging es glaub ich um Punktgeometrien, die sind ja doch relativ unaufdringlich. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-in] NRSC Landuse data in public domain
I managed to download the LULC layer but when I try to download in JOSM, I get a message Sorry! No data available in this scale. This is for very low zoom levels i.e.1 inch = 1 km Any idea why? Shalabh The imagery is for even lower zoom levels since its on the 1:1million scale. I find it works only after the 1inch=20km range.Once it loads you can disable the automatic downloading by right clicking the imagery layer, so that you can zoom in without losing the tiles. Btw, now the usage policy clearly states that the data is in public domain http://applications.nrsc.gov.in/policy.asp I have added the info to the osm wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/India/Data_sources#ISRO.2FNRSC_Landuse_Imagery -- H.S.Rai ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- j.mp/ArunGanesh http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] NRSC Landuse data in public domain
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:58 PM, Arun Ganesh arun.plane...@gmail.comwrote: I managed to download the LULC layer but when I try to download in JOSM, I get a message Sorry! No data available in this scale. This is for very low zoom levels i.e.1 inch = 1 km Any idea why? Shalabh The imagery is for even lower zoom levels since its on the 1:1million scale. I find it works only after the 1inch=20km range.Once it loads you can disable the automatic downloading by right clicking the imagery layer, so that you can zoom in without losing the tiles. Thanks Arun. That solves the problem. However, the question is what use is the imagery at such low resolution. I can do much better with Yahoo imagery. Am I missing something? Btw, now the usage policy clearly states that the data is in public domain http://applications.nrsc.gov.in/policy.asp I have added the info to the osm wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/India/Data_sources#ISRO.2FNRSC_Landuse_Imagery -- H.S.Rai ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- j.mp/ArunGanesh http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] NRSC Landuse data in public domain
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:06 AM, Shalabh shalab...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:58 PM, Arun Ganesh arun.plane...@gmail.comwrote: I managed to download the LULC layer but when I try to download in JOSM, I get a message Sorry! No data available in this scale. This is for very low zoom levels i.e.1 inch = 1 km Any idea why? Shalabh The imagery is for even lower zoom levels since its on the 1:1million scale. I find it works only after the 1inch=20km range.Once it loads you can disable the automatic downloading by right clicking the imagery layer, so that you can zoom in without losing the tiles. Thanks Arun. That solves the problem. However, the question is what use is the imagery at such low resolution. I can do much better with Yahoo imagery. Am I missing something? For tracing into osm, not much. Its of more use for scientific purposes where you can see extent of urban area, deforestation, wasteland etc. Such details are not available on a pan-India scale from any other source. Btw, now the usage policy clearly states that the data is in public domain http://applications.nrsc.gov.in/policy.asp I have added the info to the osm wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/India/Data_sources#ISRO.2FNRSC_Landuse_Imagery -- H.S.Rai ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- j.mp/ArunGanesh http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- j.mp/ArunGanesh http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in