Re: Fw: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[vrand2...@gmail.com]

On 7/23/2017 4:48 PM, vrand2...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,

More information on Fisher/Oriani Collaboration in a 2010 article in 
Infinite Energy Magazine, the two scientists that Mark Hugo talked about 
in the Papp Engine video:


*https://tinyurl.com/yc2ffvvl*

Regard,
Michael Randall


Hi,

Check out Mark Hugo, ME video on his understanding on the operation of 
the Papp Engine.


*"It's Not HHO: Cold Fusion & The Papp Engine" *
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foIWltOShO0

Regards,
Michael Randall

On 7/23/2017 4:14 PM, Axil Axil wrote:

See

http://www.rexresearch.com/papp/1papp.htm



On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 7:08 PM, Che > wrote:



So where's this patent?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 7:06 PM, Axil Axil > wrote:

Papp spent a few years developing the noble gas version of
his  engine control that was more stable. By the early '80s,
Papp found a new engineer to work with, Bob Rohner of West
Liberty, Iowa. Papp settled in Florida. Several working
engines ran during the Rohner years, which lasted until Papp
died in '89. During this time, his third patent application
was met with a USPTO request for a working model. Papp
refused to not only take an engine to Washington DC, but also
to leave it with anyone for any length of time. The USPTO
then requested a dynamometer affidavit. A diesel engine test
group associated with the University of Oklahoma agreed to
come to Florida to test the engine. The affidavit was
accepted by the USPTO and they issued the patent.

That patent was designated by the patent office to be the
best patent granted in that patent year.

What other overunity devices has be granted a patent?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Brian Ahern
> wrote:


Rossi  - Papp  What's the difference. There is not
support data.



*From:* Axil Axil >
*Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 5:53 PM
*To:* vortex-l
*Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
I have been trying to understate how the Papp engine
works for years. It is a mystery. This is no information
available on how it works.

A clue to the production of a plasma based explosion is
now coming from Holmlid's experiments. Holmlid has just
discovered that a spark can be used to activate that
plasma explosion just as well as a laser pulse.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Che
> wrote:


Where's the best online source to go to for
information on this?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil
> wrote:

I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine
was a cavitation based device.

In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp
must have produced water crystals in the
compression part of the cylinder cycle where the
volume of the cylinder was decreasing. During
this increasing pressure environment inside the
cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed
thereby producing ultra dense water crystals.

For example, some larger diesel engines suffer
from cavitation due to high compression and
undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
cylinder wall induce alternating low and high
pressure in the coolant against the cylinder
wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall,
which will eventually let cooling fluid leak into
the cylinder and combustion gases to leak into
the coolant.

To stop the cavitation based erosion of the
cylinder walls and the subsequent loss of
compression over time, Papp went to noble gases
which produce ultra dense noble gas
crystals during the compression stage of the
cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense
noble gas crystals did not damage the cylinder walls.

When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble
gas crystals exploded as happens in the Holmlid

Re: Fw: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[vrand2...@gmail.com]

Hi,

Check out Mark Hugo, ME video on his understanding on the operation of 
the Papp Engine.


*"It's Not HHO: Cold Fusion & The Papp Engine" *
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foIWltOShO0

Regards,
Michael Randall

On 7/23/2017 4:14 PM, Axil Axil wrote:

See

http://www.rexresearch.com/papp/1papp.htm



On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 7:08 PM, Che > wrote:



So where's this patent?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 7:06 PM, Axil Axil > wrote:

Papp spent a few years developing the noble gas version of his
 engine control that was more stable. By the early '80s, Papp
found a new engineer to work with, Bob Rohner of West Liberty,
Iowa. Papp settled in Florida. Several working engines ran
during the Rohner years, which lasted until Papp died in '89.
During this time, his third patent application was met with a
USPTO request for a working model. Papp refused to not only
take an engine to Washington DC, but also to leave it with
anyone for any length of time. The USPTO then requested a
dynamometer affidavit. A diesel engine test group associated
with the University of Oklahoma agreed to come to Florida to
test the engine. The affidavit was accepted by the USPTO and
they issued the patent.

That patent was designated by the patent office to be the best
patent granted in that patent year.

What other overunity devices has be granted a patent?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Brian Ahern
> wrote:


Rossi  - Papp  What's the difference. There is not support
data.



*From:* Axil Axil >
*Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 5:53 PM
*To:* vortex-l
*Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
I have been trying to understate how the Papp engine works
for years. It is a mystery. This is no information
available on how it works.

A clue to the production of a plasma based explosion is
now coming from Holmlid's experiments. Holmlid has just
discovered that a spark can be used to activate that
plasma explosion just as well as a laser pulse.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Che
> wrote:


Where's the best online source to go to for
information on this?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil
> wrote:

I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine
was a cavitation based device.

In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp
must have produced water crystals in the
compression part of the cylinder cycle where the
volume of the cylinder was decreasing. During this
increasing pressure environment inside the
cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed
thereby producing ultra dense water crystals.

For example, some larger diesel engines suffer
from cavitation due to high compression and
undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
cylinder wall induce alternating low and high
pressure in the coolant against the cylinder wall.
The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which
will eventually let cooling fluid leak into the
cylinder and combustion gases to leak into the
coolant.

To stop the cavitation based erosion of the
cylinder walls and the subsequent loss of
compression over time, Papp went to noble gases
which produce ultra dense noble gas
crystals during the compression stage of the
cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense
noble gas crystals did not damage the cylinder walls.

When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas
crystals exploded as happens in the Holmlid
experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals
produce atomic particle fragments that move
outward at 3/4 the speed of light. Currently,
Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of
energy inherent to his 

Re: Fw: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Axil Axil]

See

http://www.rexresearch.com/papp/1papp.htm



On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 7:08 PM, Che  wrote:

>
> So where's this patent?
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 7:06 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> Papp spent a few years developing the noble gas version of his  engine
>> control that was more stable. By the early '80s, Papp found a new engineer
>> to work with, Bob Rohner of West Liberty, Iowa. Papp settled in Florida.
>> Several working engines ran during the Rohner years, which lasted until
>> Papp died in '89. During this time, his third patent application was met
>> with a USPTO request for a working model. Papp refused to not only take an
>> engine to Washington DC, but also to leave it with anyone for any length of
>> time. The USPTO then requested a dynamometer affidavit. A diesel engine
>> test group associated with the University of Oklahoma agreed to come to
>> Florida to test the engine. The affidavit was accepted by the USPTO and
>> they issued the patent.
>>
>> That patent was designated by the patent office to be the best patent
>> granted in that patent year.
>>
>> What other overunity devices has be granted a patent?
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Brian Ahern  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Rossi  - Papp  What's the difference. There is not support data.
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From:* Axil Axil 
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 5:53 PM
>>> *To:* vortex-l
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>>>
>>> I have been trying to understate how the Papp engine works for years. It
>>> is a mystery. This is no information available on how it works.
>>>
>>> A clue to the production of a plasma based explosion is now coming from
>>> Holmlid's experiments. Holmlid has just discovered that a spark can be used
>>> to activate that plasma explosion just as well as a laser pulse.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Che  wrote:
>>>

 Where's the best online source to go to for information on this?

 On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation
> based device.
>
> In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced
> water crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the
> volume of the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure
> environment inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed
> thereby producing ultra dense water crystals.
>
> For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to
> high compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
> cylinder wall induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant 
> against
> the cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will
> eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion
> gases to leak into the coolant.
>
> To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the
> subsequent loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which
> produce ultra dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the
> cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not
> damage the cylinder walls.
>
> When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded
> as happens in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen 
> cycltals
> produce atomic particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of
> light. Currently, Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy
> inherent to his expanding plasma.
>
> To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture
> that nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design
> using ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.
>


>>>
>>
>

Re: Fw: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Che]

So where's this patent?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 7:06 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Papp spent a few years developing the noble gas version of his  engine
> control that was more stable. By the early '80s, Papp found a new engineer
> to work with, Bob Rohner of West Liberty, Iowa. Papp settled in Florida.
> Several working engines ran during the Rohner years, which lasted until
> Papp died in '89. During this time, his third patent application was met
> with a USPTO request for a working model. Papp refused to not only take an
> engine to Washington DC, but also to leave it with anyone for any length of
> time. The USPTO then requested a dynamometer affidavit. A diesel engine
> test group associated with the University of Oklahoma agreed to come to
> Florida to test the engine. The affidavit was accepted by the USPTO and
> they issued the patent.
>
> That patent was designated by the patent office to be the best patent
> granted in that patent year.
>
> What other overunity devices has be granted a patent?
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Brian Ahern  wrote:
>
>>
>> Rossi  - Papp  What's the difference. There is not support data.
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Axil Axil 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 5:53 PM
>> *To:* vortex-l
>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>>
>> I have been trying to understate how the Papp engine works for years. It
>> is a mystery. This is no information available on how it works.
>>
>> A clue to the production of a plasma based explosion is now coming from
>> Holmlid's experiments. Holmlid has just discovered that a spark can be used
>> to activate that plasma explosion just as well as a laser pulse.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Che  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Where's the best online source to go to for information on this?
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
 I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation
 based device.

 In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced
 water crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the
 volume of the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure
 environment inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed
 thereby producing ultra dense water crystals.

 For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to
 high compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
 cylinder wall induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant 
 against
 the cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will
 eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion
 gases to leak into the coolant.

 To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the
 subsequent loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which
 produce ultra dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the
 cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not
 damage the cylinder walls.

 When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as
 happens in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals
 produce atomic particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of
 light. Currently, Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy
 inherent to his expanding plasma.

 To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture
 that nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design
 using ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.

>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: Fw: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Axil Axil]

Papp spent a few years developing the noble gas version of his  engine
control that was more stable. By the early '80s, Papp found a new engineer
to work with, Bob Rohner of West Liberty, Iowa. Papp settled in Florida.
Several working engines ran during the Rohner years, which lasted until
Papp died in '89. During this time, his third patent application was met
with a USPTO request for a working model. Papp refused to not only take an
engine to Washington DC, but also to leave it with anyone for any length of
time. The USPTO then requested a dynamometer affidavit. A diesel engine
test group associated with the University of Oklahoma agreed to come to
Florida to test the engine. The affidavit was accepted by the USPTO and
they issued the patent.

That patent was designated by the patent office to be the best patent
granted in that patent year.

What other overunity devices has be granted a patent?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Brian Ahern  wrote:

>
> Rossi  - Papp  What's the difference. There is not support data.
>
> --
> *From:* Axil Axil 
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 5:53 PM
> *To:* vortex-l
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>
> I have been trying to understate how the Papp engine works for years. It
> is a mystery. This is no information available on how it works.
>
> A clue to the production of a plasma based explosion is now coming from
> Holmlid's experiments. Holmlid has just discovered that a spark can be used
> to activate that plasma explosion just as well as a laser pulse.
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Che  wrote:
>
>>
>> Where's the best online source to go to for information on this?
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based
>>> device.
>>>
>>> In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced
>>> water crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the
>>> volume of the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure
>>> environment inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed
>>> thereby producing ultra dense water crystals.
>>>
>>> For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to
>>> high compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
>>> cylinder wall induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant 
>>> against
>>> the cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will
>>> eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion
>>> gases to leak into the coolant.
>>>
>>> To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the
>>> subsequent loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which
>>> produce ultra dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the
>>> cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not
>>> damage the cylinder walls.
>>>
>>> When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as
>>> happens in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals
>>> produce atomic particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of
>>> light. Currently, Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy
>>> inherent to his expanding plasma.
>>>
>>> To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture
>>> that nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design
>>> using ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Fwd: Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project just uploaded a video

[Che]

Further on the below...

(Assuming its reality): could a future well-designed and crafted,
theoretically definitively-understood nano-scale nano-tek cold fusion
machine be designed, so that the 'ash' by-product would be forced out of
the arena of the 'reaction chambers' as part of the process of energy
release..? That way IMO you could be keeping at least part of the entire
process 'clean' of by-product build-up... and ready for the next batch of
fuel 'input'. As far as I understand any of this.

And whether that fuel and/or the reaction matrix itself must be
continuously delivered to the reaction site dynamically, by some nano-tek
means.






On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Che  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 2:45 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
> bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Che—
>>
>>
>>
>> You nailed my thought process.
>>
>>
>>
>> Look at the dots: and make logical connections with  PRACTICAL scheme for
>> testing.  This is IMHO the crux of R
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Cook
>>
>
>
> AFAIC the key to 'success' -- scientific or monetary -- is to indeed
> 'KISS' (Keep It Simple, Stupid!), _first_.
>
> Without a 'killer app' device for ALL to get their hands on -- most likely
> some drop-dead-simple hot-steam generator, churning out Utility-free energy
> on-demand, in any location, for pennies -- what self-interested
> 'enterprise' would want to plow oodles of cash down a bottomless money-pit,
> on some vague expectation of 'profit' in some not-too-imminent haze-ridden
> future..? Most of them would probably rather put their money on the
> 'Underwear Gnomes' instead.
>
> So maybe this ECCO is Open Science's answer to the self-interested
> proprietary shithead types like Rossi -- and whatever these 'geniuses' have
> hidden up their sleeves at the moment.
>
> I really hope cavitation is the key to cheap, abundant cold fusion devices.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Che 
>> *Sent: *Saturday, July 22, 2017 9:38 PM
>> *To: *vortex-l@eskimo.com
>> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Fwd: Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project just
>> uploaded a video
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 2:57 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
>> bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> TWO ideas about noble gases and fuel preparation:
>>
>>
>>
>>1. Being inert, they can be used in combination with H or D to
>>diffuse into a metallic lattice  and cause mico-cracking   with creation 
>> of
>>LENR active sites with large internal surface areas for formation of 
>> SSP’s.
>>2. Repeated cycling, gassing and degassing,  would allow measurement
>>of increased number of mico-cavities until a desired density is
>>established.   Careful measurement of the volume of gas that diffuses in
>>and out with each cycle would be instructive in this regard.  A mass
>>spectrometer to determine ratios of the diffusing gases and knowledge of
>>their diffusion rates in the fuel should provide additional information
>>regarding the status of micro-cavity density in the fuel.
>>
>>
>>
>> A nano-particle fracture mechanics analysis may be warranted to determine
>> desirable pressure and temperatures during cycling/fuel preparation.
>> Brittle-ductile transition temperature of the metallic fuel lattice would
>> help determine appropriate lower temperatures for cycling, since brittle
>> fractures with 1 or 2 dimensional characteristics may be a desirable LENR
>> geometry for SSP’s.  Acoustic emission   monitoring of the fuel cycling
>> would aid in determination of fracturing occurring during cycling at
>> various temperatures, pressures and noble gases being used.  (Cavities that
>> are too big  may be bad for LENR+.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Cook
>>
>> First it starts with the by-chance, haphazard nano-fracking.
>>
>> Then follows the sophisticated, calculated, systematic nano-tek
>> build-system...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Fw: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Brian Ahern]

Rossi  - Papp  What's the difference. There is not support data.


From: Axil Axil 
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 5:53 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

I have been trying to understate how the Papp engine works for years. It is a 
mystery. This is no information available on how it works.

A clue to the production of a plasma based explosion is now coming from 
Holmlid's experiments. Holmlid has just discovered that a spark can be used to 
activate that plasma explosion just as well as a laser pulse.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Che 
> wrote:

Where's the best online source to go to for information on this?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil 
> wrote:
I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based device.

In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water 
crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of the 
cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure environment inside the 
cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed thereby producing ultra dense 
water crystals.

For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to high 
compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the cylinder wall 
induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against the cylinder 
wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will eventually let 
cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion gases to leak into the 
coolant.

To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the subsequent 
loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which produce ultra 
dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the cylinder cycle but 
the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not damage the cylinder 
walls.

When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as happens 
in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals produce atomic 
particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of light. Currently, 
Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy inherent to his expanding 
plasma.

To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture that 
nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design using 
ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.

Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Axil Axil]

I have been trying to understate how the Papp engine works for years. It is
a mystery. This is no information available on how it works.

A clue to the production of a plasma based explosion is now coming from
Holmlid's experiments. Holmlid has just discovered that a spark can be used
to activate that plasma explosion just as well as a laser pulse.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Che  wrote:

>
> Where's the best online source to go to for information on this?
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based
>> device.
>>
>> In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water
>> crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of
>> the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure environment
>> inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed thereby producing
>> ultra dense water crystals.
>>
>> For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to
>> high compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
>> cylinder wall induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against
>> the cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will
>> eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion gases
>> to leak into the coolant.
>>
>> To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the
>> subsequent loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which
>> produce ultra dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the
>> cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not
>> damage the cylinder walls.
>>
>> When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as
>> happens in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals
>> produce atomic particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of
>> light. Currently, Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy
>> inherent to his expanding plasma.
>>
>> To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture that
>> nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design using
>> ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Che]

Where's the best online source to go to for information on this?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based
> device.
>
> In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water
> crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of
> the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure environment
> inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed thereby producing
> ultra dense water crystals.
>
> For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to
> high compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
> cylinder wall induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against
> the cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will
> eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion gases
> to leak into the coolant.
>
> To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the
> subsequent loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which
> produce ultra dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the
> cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not
> damage the cylinder walls.
>
> When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as
> happens in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals
> produce atomic particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of
> light. Currently, Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy
> inherent to his expanding plasma.
>
> To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture that
> nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design using
> ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.
>

[Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Axil Axil]

I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based
device.

In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water
crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of
the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure environment
inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed thereby producing
ultra dense water crystals.

For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to high
compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the cylinder wall
induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against the
cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will
eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion gases to
leak into the coolant.

To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the
subsequent loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which
produce ultra dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the
cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not
damage the cylinder walls.

When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as
happens in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals
produce atomic particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of
light. Currently, Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy
inherent to his expanding plasma.

To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture that
nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design using
ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.

Re: [Vo]:Fission may be the best fit for future LENR

[Che]

lol

Just as long as you don't get to censor everyone's else's responses to your
musings.

Fission, indeed... the whole POINT of cold fusion is to NOT 'do fission'.
Pfft.





On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:16 AM, Brian Ahern  wrote:

> I use outlook for e-mails.How do you block certain senders?
>
>
> --
> *From:* Che 
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 1:40 AM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Fission may be the best fit for future LENR
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 2:00 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> Nuclear fission has a lot of critics, and rightly so ... but all of the
>> problems of fission derive from trying to control a multi-ton critical mass
>> of explosively enriched U in a steam pressurized reactor. Even with that
>> major design problem, the French have demonstrated to the rest of the World
>> that fission can make economic sense.
>>
>> Even with Fukushima still smoldering, we must consider that an improved
>> version of nuclear fission can make great economic sense. This is
>> especially true for countries without much oil. When the electric car goes
>> into mass production at lower cost (soon) off-peak recharging is a feature
>> which makes fission more economically viable in the 'big picture'.
>>
>> A "new and improved" version of fission means ditching enrichment, going
>> subcritical, going small and modular and with direct conversion of heat to
>> electricity. It is easily possible that fission can be made preferable to
>> hot fusion in every way, and less costly than any other option including
>> coal and cold fusion, if Pd is required.
>
>
> I hear they're getting energy out of windmills and solar panels too, these
> days.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Fwd: Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project just uploaded a video

[Che]

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 2:45 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Che—
>
>
>
> You nailed my thought process.
>
>
>
> Look at the dots: and make logical connections with  PRACTICAL scheme for
> testing.  This is IMHO the crux of R
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>


AFAIC the key to 'success' -- scientific or monetary -- is to indeed 'KISS'
(Keep It Simple, Stupid!), _first_.

Without a 'killer app' device for ALL to get their hands on -- most likely
some drop-dead-simple hot-steam generator, churning out Utility-free energy
on-demand, in any location, for pennies -- what self-interested
'enterprise' would want to plow oodles of cash down a bottomless money-pit,
on some vague expectation of 'profit' in some not-too-imminent haze-ridden
future..? Most of them would probably rather put their money on the
'Underwear Gnomes' instead.

So maybe this ECCO is Open Science's answer to the self-interested
proprietary shithead types like Rossi -- and whatever these 'geniuses' have
hidden up their sleeves at the moment.

I really hope cavitation is the key to cheap, abundant cold fusion devices.





*From: *Che 
> *Sent: *Saturday, July 22, 2017 9:38 PM
> *To: *vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Fwd: Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project just
> uploaded a video
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 2:57 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
> bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> TWO ideas about noble gases and fuel preparation:
>
>
>
>1. Being inert, they can be used in combination with H or D to diffuse
>into a metallic lattice  and cause mico-cracking   with creation of LENR
>active sites with large internal surface areas for formation of SSP’s.
>2. Repeated cycling, gassing and degassing,  would allow measurement
>of increased number of mico-cavities until a desired density is
>established.   Careful measurement of the volume of gas that diffuses in
>and out with each cycle would be instructive in this regard.  A mass
>spectrometer to determine ratios of the diffusing gases and knowledge of
>their diffusion rates in the fuel should provide additional information
>regarding the status of micro-cavity density in the fuel.
>
>
>
> A nano-particle fracture mechanics analysis may be warranted to determine
> desirable pressure and temperatures during cycling/fuel preparation.
> Brittle-ductile transition temperature of the metallic fuel lattice would
> help determine appropriate lower temperatures for cycling, since brittle
> fractures with 1 or 2 dimensional characteristics may be a desirable LENR
> geometry for SSP’s.  Acoustic emission   monitoring of the fuel cycling
> would aid in determination of fracturing occurring during cycling at
> various temperatures, pressures and noble gases being used.  (Cavities that
> are too big  may be bad for LENR+.
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
> First it starts with the by-chance, haphazard nano-fracking.
>
> Then follows the sophisticated, calculated, systematic nano-tek
> build-system...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Fwd: Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project just uploaded a video

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Che—

You nailed my thought process.

Look at the dots: and make logical connections with  PRACTICAL scheme for 
testing.  This is IMHO the crux of R

Bob Cook

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Che
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 9:38 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Fwd: Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project just uploaded a video



On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 2:57 PM, 
bobcook39...@hotmail.com 
> wrote:
TWO ideas about noble gases and fuel preparation:


  1.  Being inert, they can be used in combination with H or D to diffuse into 
a metallic lattice  and cause mico-cracking   with creation of LENR active 
sites with large internal surface areas for formation of SSP’s.
  2.  Repeated cycling, gassing and degassing,  would allow measurement of 
increased number of mico-cavities until a desired density is established.   
Careful measurement of the volume of gas that diffuses in and out with each 
cycle would be instructive in this regard.  A mass spectrometer to determine 
ratios of the diffusing gases and knowledge of their diffusion rates in the 
fuel should provide additional information regarding the status of micro-cavity 
density in the fuel.



A nano-particle fracture mechanics analysis may be warranted to determine 
desirable pressure and temperatures during cycling/fuel preparation.  
Brittle-ductile transition temperature of the metallic fuel lattice would help 
determine appropriate lower temperatures for cycling, since brittle fractures 
with 1 or 2 dimensional characteristics may be a desirable LENR geometry for 
SSP’s.  Acoustic emission   monitoring of the fuel cycling would aid in 
determination of fracturing occurring during cycling at various temperatures, 
pressures and noble gases being used.  (Cavities that are too big  may be bad 
for LENR+.



Bob Cook
First it starts with the by-chance, haphazard nano-fracking.
Then follows the sophisticated, calculated, systematic nano-tek build-system...

Re: [Vo]:Fission may be the best fit for future LENR

[Brian Ahern]

I use outlook for e-mails.How do you block certain senders?



From: Che 
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 1:40 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Fission may be the best fit for future LENR



On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 2:00 PM, Jones Beene 
> wrote:
Nuclear fission has a lot of critics, and rightly so ... but all of the 
problems of fission derive from trying to control a multi-ton critical mass of 
explosively enriched U in a steam pressurized reactor. Even with that major 
design problem, the French have demonstrated to the rest of the World that 
fission can make economic sense.

Even with Fukushima still smoldering, we must consider that an improved version 
of nuclear fission can make great economic sense. This is especially true for 
countries without much oil. When the electric car goes into mass production at 
lower cost (soon) off-peak recharging is a feature which makes fission more 
economically viable in the 'big picture'.

A "new and improved" version of fission means ditching enrichment, going 
subcritical, going small and modular and with direct conversion of heat to 
electricity. It is easily possible that fission can be made preferable to hot 
fusion in every way, and less costly than any other option including coal and 
cold fusion, if Pd is required.

I hear they're getting energy out of windmills and solar panels too, these days.