Re: [Vo]:Domestic LENR steam/electricity front end
You have good arguments. anyway, using the grid, or local grid, to average the production capacity, might be interesting. because most of the cost of e-cat/hyperion is not in fuel, or even refueling, but in building the plant. so reducing the total capacity, will reduce the cost. anyway the grid itself, and the smart grid controller, also have a cost, so it should be analysed. also if LENR is not expensive for home use, it can even be less expensive if managed like big plant. also the buying price of home CHP electricity migh be very interesting, because the grid need it , and it allow the grid to reduce it's max capacity... we have to see how the cost structure evolve... 2011/12/7 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com I grew up supporting the grid and will fight to see it retained. However LENR brings new business opportunities. With 45 kW of heat from a Hyperion unit, it is possible to build a relative low cost and simple CHP system to interface to the Hyperion unit. There is simply no commercial reason to feed the Ac kWhs back into the grid. We do have the opportunity to build 10 - 50 MW LENR plants as peaking generators. With that business model, there is very rapid payback. The idea is to cherry pick the most profitable markets for LENR systems, to develop turn key solutions and then to make sales. As we see it, market resistance is the lowest in domestic CHP followed by investor owned non dispatched 10+ MW peaking plants and finally base load plants or retro fits to replace fossil fuel powered boilers.
Re: [Vo]:Room-temperature superconductivity
this is a scam. this is totally impossible to have superconduction at high temperature. no cooper pair can survive at that temperature. I'm sure the scientist that make those experiments either make mistakes or fraud. we should look at the video of their experiment. their ampmeter are tricked. anyway, every scientist that work in that domain is a bit off mainstream science... many of them have been seen working in fake science, like SC at high temp and alike... END OF IRONY more seriously, imagine what would be that domaine if journalist have decided that this domain is fake...L no researcher would be trusted, no publication allowed, no funding, just a ring of non-mainstream researcher... hopefully that domain is less controversial. 2011/12/7 Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com Room-temperature superconductivity in a copper-oxide was detected for the first time by heating it to observe a superconductive transition. The question of whether room-temperature superconductivity (RTSC) is possible in the copper-oxides has been answered. Superconductors.ORG herein reports the observation of superconductivity near 28 Celsius (83F, 301K) in a senary oxycuprate. For details see: http://www.superconductors.org/28c_rtsc.htm
Re: [Vo]:Celani: gamma spike during ignition of Rossi reactor
since we don't know the theory of operation of the reactor, and especially because the absence of gamma in nuclear reaction seems strange, we cannot rule out some change of regime, especially when temperature get abnormal... eg: if you play with U235 in big pots, sometimes, given enough quantity and temperature, it can shortly diverge. some japanese workers have died of such mistake. anyway, should investigate, but with the secrecy (because if IP battle in preparation), and lack of mainstream research, it is hard to make good experiments... at least I would (I have in fact) advice Defkalion to include a radiation detector to shut-down the reactor in case of strange burst of radiation. nb: what is funny for me is how we, the humans, have forgotten about experimental science when we have no theory... the reality of ignorance is no more understood... 2011/12/7 peter.heck...@arcor.de n multiply observed fact is: No Gamma above environment are measured with Rossis's e-cat during operation
Re: [Vo]:a long paper about and mainly against the E-cat
there are interesting theoretical arguments. If they are right it means that all Ni+H experiments are fraud, not only e-cat and hyperions. this is an all or nothing argument, for NiH reactions. about their (seems good) stellar argument, that nickel cannot transmute to copper in star for billions years, so cannot on earths in minutes... I can add few excuse. -first of all the current isotopic ration of Ni might be the consequence of an equlibrium reaction, in a very hot system, under neutron flux... -second, it seems that the shape of the metal lattice (surface, temperature), and some other factor (catalysts, the CA- factor of defkalion) is important to accelerate the reaction. maybe the condition, high temperature, strong pressure, ionization is not good for the strange quantum effect to happens... the nucleus of a star may not be the best place to observe a super-fluid/superconductor, or transistor effect. so anyway, those arguments against NiH LENR are global. when we know if it is true or false, there will be a big discovery in physic or social science. I won't be so surprised by either case. 2011/12/6 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com The Physics of why the e-Cat's Cold Fusion Claims Collapsehttp://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/12/the_nuclear_physics_of_why_we.php http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/12/the_nuclear_physics_of_why_we.php?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=emailutm_campaign=Feed%3A+ScienceblogsChannelEnvironment+%28ScienceBlogs+Channel+%3A+Environment%29 -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Domestic LENR steam/electricity front end
I agree that green energy policy (ang green everything) will be a big source of trouble for LENR generators. those regulation are not rational, nor efficient, by design (they are subsidies, and dogmatic). LENR, as it looks, is simply efficient. as I've already discuss with you, I know an old method consisting to habe an asynchronous generator on a grid, or a frequency controlled synchronous generator. today maybe electronic inverters could be more efficient, especially if you integrate the cost to compensate phase shift of async... so stupid made for green energy regulation, that force a technical solution, will be a problem. anyway, maybe we can turn around the stupid regulation, because LENR don't need subsidies, don't need forced buying by grid... LENR can sell at a price that the grid love, at a date that the grid demand. maybe there is no need of a forced buying, if the grid can propose a smart-grid controler, and smart price. a network of CHP could make the grid much more stable if they behave like a gang, and not so solo. by the way, I feel that you, aussi guy, don't love the grid. I can undestand that in a low density zone, with expensive and unreliable grid. same for american mid-west. however in europe, asia, or us coast, the grid is really a value. the only problem these days is that in europe solar and wind energy is killing the grid stability. recently poland have said that it will refuse to accept german solar/wind energy at some time, because it destabilize the grid, since nuclear plant are stopped... in france we start to have similar problem (increase of rate of breakdown), despite the very good grid. I really feel that LENR CHP (small and medium) can, opposite to solar/wind, stabilize the network naturally (it produce more when there are needs, naturaly), and on-demand (CHP can be temporarily activated, or blocked, because heating can be delayed/maintained a little). collaborating with the grid can make the total price of electricity much lower, that autonomous LENR. on low density, expensive grid, I agree that no-grid solution can be better, because an triple sized generator may be less expensive that a 20km 20kV line+transformer. smart local grid for village can also be an intermediate solution, and with smart grid and LENR it can be much more easy than with todays technology. decision should be based on cost. 2011/12/6 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com ssie FITs require the grid to be fed via a grid connect inverter and the inverter fed by a Renewable energy source. I doubt LENR would qualify. No reason to generate DC and then feed the grid and the home from an expensive solid state inverter. Plain old simple PM based Ac alternator delivering 50 Hz at 240 Vac will do nicely.
Re: [Vo]:LHC plagued by UFOs
About the risk of big black hole, the CERN have accepted to start the LHC, not only because current theory say that small black hole will evaporate quickly (they don't take risk based on, even consensual, theory), but because Auger observatory have shown that we receive daily huge cosmic particle that are many billions times more heavy (above exaelectronvolt, up to10^20eV), and that the planet have survived since a few trillions years back. http://www.auger.org/cosmic_rays/faq.html#energy about magnetic fields, the one at LHC are big, but there are many place on earth, where such field are created, or just a little weaker, including in MNR machines. There is also some stars having huge magnetic fields that have been detected. they could tell us about the existence or nonexistence of some feared/expected effects. I heard nothing about exceptional unexpected effect observed. 2011/12/5 Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net ...
Re: [Vo]:Padua University not Siena made the analysis
just about the shielding, what about the chamber itself as shielding (what material/thickness?) for some kind of emissions. at least it should stop alpha and beta, protons, weak X, and reduce X, and maybe soft gamma. 2011/12/5 Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com According to Nelson's slides, the gammas are in the 50 - 200 keV range and are thermalized. Easy to do with very little shielding. And photons in that range wouldn't have been detected by Villa - this is clearly stated in the abstract.
Re: [Vo]:Ni producer
not so false. according to Rossi's E-cat figures, it would consume 25% of annual Ni production to produce the annual energy. in my opinion, according to defkalion info, the powder seems simple. the reactor and the H bottle seems the most expensive nb: assuming it works, as told. 2011/12/5 Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de This is not a problem. The e-cat does not use much nickel. We can extract it from Euro coins or from others. They contain 25% Nickel. SCNR, Peter
Re: [Vo]:LHC plagued by UFOs
sorry, I mismatch between french million/milliards/billion/billiard, and the US million/billion/trillion/quadrillion best is SI prefix kMGTPE/mµnpfa, or Scientific notation I mean many Gyears (4Gy for earth AFAIK) about difference between LHC vs Corsmis Rays, an imperfect collision millions of time per day with particle bilions time bigger, might have produced once at least similar collision in 4 billion years... 2011/12/6 Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net and that the planet have survived since a few trillions years back. I wrote: I think you mean millions, not trillions of years back. Obviously should be: I think you mean billions, not trillions of years back.
Re: [Vo]:Domestic LENR steam/electricity front end
from your experience, what are the relative merit/domain of - piston/rotative steam engine (like the one people talk here) - steam/gaz turbine (with water or volatile fluids) - Stirling engine assuming the temperature proposed by Hyperion small and medium, working alone or in farm like e-cat 1MW, what are your opinion on best solution fr each. by the way, for CHP generator on the grid, what is your opinion on using asynchronous generator automatically matching grid frequency ? do you know classic method to switch from async on grid, to sync off grid ? do you know classic method for asynchronous generators, to restore a good phase (ie: absorb reactive power, restore good cos phi...) 2011/12/6 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Based on the lowest LENR
Re: [Vo]:can we use such a program?
Lying is one thing, but the subject is also important... I won't be surprised if, during industrialization, rossi said that it works, while he had a big problem... that is common in business. We call that the demo effect... the method to detect liars is not only to detect the uncontrollable first milliseconds emotions signs, but also to detect the counter-measures that good liars have developed, sign of sociopathy. a good liar, instead of emitting early emotion, will control himself and will emit nothing or smokescreen... normal liars are not so competent. if you see me lying in normal life, you will instinctively detect it, even without method. as an amateur actor I have methods to lie to myself (Stanislavsky method) so I can look sincere, but I don't know if I emit the early warning in case of surprise. by the way that big surprise is the secret of good actors that try to surprise the partner and keep surprised, but to look sincere they believe in their story, and are trained by repetition... so if you want to look at the real emotion of someone, look at the instinctive reaction on big surprises... by the way you don't detect lie, but real emotions, and can sometime guess the incoherence with affirmation... 2011/12/4 Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: And, no, AR does not display any of the bodily traits of deception. Look again at the stable! stable! stable! video.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi clarification on Bianchini
Is it in that experiment that the core take 40minutes to cool down? in that case, if really disconnected from electricity, and still hot for 4 hours it is a proof that something else produce heat? correct me. 2011/12/3 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com In the Oct. 6 test, which is the one in question, electrical power was off for 4 hours. You do not need to record it when it is off.
Re: [Vo]:Only thing what we know for sure from General Relativity is that it is false
It's true that the QP and GR are incompatible at planck scale , and that is the subject of quantum gravity research. however about galaxy, dark matter and dark energy, seems more and more able to explain the facts (better that modified gravity, according to recent research). It raise chalenge in Quantum Physics. General Relativity can still be used at cosmologic scale, an no other theory works better. Your comment of big-bang are strange, because, still now modified with (discussed) inflation theory, is the reference theory.. however still now , both theories works perfectly at all testable scale. that is awful for researcher, and everybody in physics , hope we find an error... 2011/12/4 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com Because general relativity is known to be false with infinite probability,...
Re: [Vo]:Energy Catalyzer Wiki : FLAT EARTH! FLAT EARTH! FLAT EARTH!
I've look a gain, and I'm still suspect about using ZPE, because ZPE is only an energy that you cannot use to go below... by definition. note that about the law I talk about, GR, QP, TD1/2, I'm just very very suspect about theory that assume a violation of that laws... I know that in some conditions, those laws seems broken (often in fact no, but they seems to if you are narrow minded), but those conditions are not common (typically Planck scale or cosmologic). moreover those law breaking, are totally in continuity with usual respect of the laws. law are asymptotically respected. that is the way QP and GR are working perfectly, yet are incompatible at the corner of their respective validity domain. about TD1 and 2, they look consequences of other basic laws (TD1 seems linked to QP) TD2 seems surprisingly respected (even for black hole). maybe it is linked to the structure of causality. I've seems so many proposed theries that proposed breaking of laws, with strong hope of the community, that got refuted (eg: non Newtonian gravity)... for me the domains of those law is the one I should apply the moto : (forgot the translation) considerable proposal, considerable proof. but as I say, cold fusion is not breaking any law. however, hot fusion is a quite well known process, and hot fusion ( ITER and inertial confinement) effort are just awfully complex RD process... I'm afraid that thoses days because politic and business looks for results, the research have became simple RD, and maybe a little consulting (as dilbert say, the job to find reasons to justify the boss desire).. 2011/12/3 Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com What did you mean when you wrote by definition, you can't use zero-point energy? From http://www.calphysics.org/zpe.html :
[Vo]:[Vo] : Rossi to show e-cat live... like Defkalion...
after defkalion who say they will install a webcam to show an hyperion working http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17t=587 it seems that rossi agree too for a 24x7 show http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/12/rossi-open-to-live-streaming-video-of-his-e-cat-technology/ Note to MY : I agree that this is not a proof. Best regards (We need you like the DA in US court).
Re: [Vo]: micro-CHP from NZ debark in france
the world is small, good luck. clearly such a device with NiH CA-LENR reactor, priced a bit more realisticaly (WhisperGen is priced around 15KEur 8-o , but maybe expensive gas impose overdesign), can catch the market. 2011/12/2 Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com My dad and the kid next door (when doing his PhD) were the two founders of Whispertech/Whispergen. My father was only involved for a short time, but the kid next door still runs it and he is very aware of what is happening.
[Vo]: seen question (in french) on areva forum
I've seen a forum question to Areva on their forum, askin if they have research on LENR It's written in french, http://www.areva.com/ajaxpub/Dialog/DetailQuestion.aspx?show=3idQuestion=975 Someone ask also them their opinion on E-cat and hyperion, and alerting if they have legal data about fraud. Sure if they can prove it is a scam they will tell to the public... if not... hum... I don't think they can admit it works.
Re: [Vo]:As a guide
this kind of cost analysis is on the good path. however the price are not yet stable. already rossi say's thate the cost of thermal W is reduced from 2k$ to 500$, and to be honnest like software or drugs, the cost is research, not building. thus it can get down with volume. Rossi talk about 100$/KW another cost analysis is the hypothesis of CHP home device, where heat is used efficiently to warm the building. for me CF is a good candidate for small (home) and medium(building, factory or block) CHP. by the way, I don't think that solar high efficiency technology are good for CF. CF is too cheap to deserve costly 3-4 stage turbine heater. according to my computation, the cost is mostly the device itself, so we have to reduce the cost of the device per usable kW, not increase it's efficiency crazily like it is need for expensive energy like solar, and even fuel. however for me the safety theatre (precaution principle, irrational fear of radioactivity) is the most limiting factor. I expect the incumbent industry, helped by ecologists, to block home usage of CHP... the insurance company could also block the development by fearful behavior. maybe CF stakeholder should organize a mutual insurance company. also the weak lobby like nuclear industry (surprisingly quite weak compare to oil and ecologist) could join with CF stakeholder, to save their butt... however the only have convergent interest on big power plant, not home version... However I think that incumbent like ecologists, wind/sun energy and oil companies, have a converging interest to kill CF, and as things show today, they are very powerful, much more than state and nuclear companies. maybe some emerging states like china could make a surprise... they are rational and open mind (because if they fail to develop their economy they explode like USSR, and it is not far from). I expect nothing, despite the strong potential of CF for them, from african governement, because they seems to follow the lobbies, not their interest. However lack of regulation could make the local people decide to install CF device without any control. CF can be a very interesting experiment of governance science... 2011/11/30 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com As a guide:
Re: [Vo]:Congress cuts the Gordian knot of aviation patents in 1917
The government in US does not exist. it is a puppet of business, and this is a concept that in Europe we had to learn to fight. But it is hard to import. US Government is a vehicle to make business run nicely. In europe a big change is in process, but not event to the quite coherent system of US. Europe is taking much real power on the local democratic government. these local governement are today soap opera actors, and the real decision are taken elsewhere. European government, is on one site a church of stupid liberal theory drinker, who have transformed EU in the only honest free market zone, this mean the zone to be screwed easily. Beside that theorist, the environmentalist are lobbying very efficiently, and obtain incredible success, without any solid opposition. Behind that, local corp try to protect their interest with some lobbying, but they can only bend the details of directives decided according to liberal and environmentalist dogma. I think that rossi hate so much his administration, that he will work for his adopting-motherland, US. Defkalion, won't, but they will not work for Europe, given what Merkozy have imposed to their people. knowing that you will see that the interest of USGovt, the interest of US Industry, will be to capture the patent, and give US industry a big advantage, with new monopoly (the new 7 sisters). the big companies of today will have to stay the big one of tomorrow. I don't believe they will kill that discovery, just take control of it. Normally Europe will orientate the policy in 2 conflicting axis : - free market for CF device (so we are screwed up standardly)... - forbidding it's use in the name of environment, like done about GMO/Shale gaz/Antennas/nuclear/immunization/chemicals. no effort will me made to keep the patent in europe. big corp will just try to ask for regulation so they are the only allowed users, using the green to fight the liberals. I just hope that Greece, furious about it's treatment by Eurogroup, will fight back. France won't see the revolution came (nothing in the media, like for other scandals- USSR was more open to controversy), then will forbid it, then buy foreign products. Germany will be split between dynamic SMB, and green anti-nuke activists, with the lobby of incumbent renewable energy providers trying to use the green. in china they will try to use it to solve their environmental problems that could lead to nationalist crisis like in USSR, not caring about patents, and exporting devices if possible, maybe event innovation to sell. in Africa the government will not care, or be manipulated/corrupted not to allow it, but population will buy devices despite the government. that is my anticipation... they key points will be the EU homologation... I'm pessimistic. Stupidity is infinite, unlike space. 2011/11/30 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com The United States of 1917 is long dead and buried. Sorry if I sound cynical, but the behavior of the establishment and its pet physicists during the cold fusion debacle is really not comparable to the behavior of the early 1900s establishment and its Smithsonian equivalent. Yes, there were establishment denials early on and yes there were some red faces but to compare the lack of flight during that era to the lack of cold fusion as a power source during the late 1900s is to miss orders of magnitude, not to mention a qualitative shift in the kind of corruption in high places that rules today. Seriously, these people would rather fry the biosphere than lose social status.
Re: [Vo]:Makup of Ni powder in Hyperion
Rossi talk about it... He says he uses five nine, thus 99.999% pure. Defkalion seems more tolerant. Globally they seems to behave like engineer like me... From the problems they take into account, I can guess not only they make the machine work, but they expect it to be maintained, abused, broken, dumped, stolen. if it is a scam, at least they can pay experienced engineer... the hypothesis of a scam fall from p=0.01 to p=0,001 2011/11/30 ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com Those are just the impurities in the Ni powder. For instance, my 30nm Ni powder says 99.8%, which means there are a number of impurities.
Re: [Vo]:hydrogen refill
Just to conclude my question, from various sources it seems that the pessimistic version of the consumption of e-cat is the good one, http://faq.ecat.com/112449/how-much-nickel-and-hydrogen-will-it-take-to-generate-one-megawatt-of-heat-continuously-for-six-months/ 10kg Ni+16kgH for 1MW*6month (4,4GW.h) other numbers were daily consumption. my estimate of world consumption, is that 300kTons of nickel could produces one year of energy for the world, and it represent 25% of world production. it is strange that H is much more consumed than Ni, especially in term of atoms, but H have a tendency to leak. maybe also the reaction is not the one I think about (H+Ni-Cu+E) and the ratio H/Ni are very big. something strange is that my FAQ put on ecat site is not answered, and on journal of nuclear physic CF article my question/comment have been blocked... any correction/comment/critic/advice welcome 2011/11/25 Alain dit le Cycliste alain.sep...@gmail.com FYI i've found this FAQ http://faq.ecat.com/113090/i-was-wondering-if-you-may-inform-us-as-to-the-amount-of-hydrogen-that-will-be-required-to-run-an-ecatfor/ say that for 24h the 10kW e-cat use 0.2g of H... it is hard to interpret about Ni... the 0.2g might be just the fixed value to fill the Ni for 6 month... in that case, it can fill 12g of nickel at loading factor 1/1... but what about the volume used to fill the pipes? maybe is it 0.1g of Ni, 0.0016g of H loaded, and the 0.198 rest to fill the pipes and chambers. it can also be just the leaks for one day, telling nothing about the quantity stored in the Ni, and thus, the Ni quantity... and implying that it consume 3.6kg of H for a 1MW on 6month... but what about Ni? it can be a mix... so, missing data to estimate Ni quantity, nor H consumption and cause of the consumption (loading, leaks, reactions)... not yet answer to my FAQ http://faq.ecat.com/113004/in-faq-how-much-nickel-and-hydrogen-will-it-take-to-generate-one-megawatt-of-heat-continuously-for-six/ on the site, but he seems to copy FAQ and answer from another source ... if someone know where to deposit question, so they ane answered clearly. if someone find a better analysis... 2011/11/24 Alain dit le Cycliste alain.sep...@gmail.com so two article of the same FAQ are not coherent. http://faq.ecat.com/112273/how-much-ni-is-in-the-cell/ http://faq.ecat.com/112449/how-much-nickel-and-hydrogen-will-it-take-to-generate-one-megawatt-of-heat-continuously-for-six-months/ is'nt there a known issue with an error of unit that rossi admit. I remember some comment about that mistake. 10g instead of 10kg... ??? note that the cost estimated of the powder is about 1 euro/MW.6month http://faq.ecat.com/112602/if-selling-price-is-planned-for-500-euros-per-1-kw-of-output-capability-this-is-5000-euros-for-10-kw/ and that 1kG of raw nickel is 13Eur/kg on the market... incoherences... To clear the doubt, I put the question on the FAQ. http://faq.ecat.com/113004/in-faq-how-much-nickel-and-hydrogen-will-it-take-to-generate-one-megawatt-of-heat-continuously-for-six/ maybe the different base numbers we have explain the disagreement.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: ?We have Rossi?s formula?
maybe is it still legal to build a similar reactor, with a pattented, or in process of patent, technology, but you have to obtain the allowance of the inventor/owner... and not steal it. normally rossi before applying for patent, should have put a document in a third-party file, that proove that he know the technology before. (in france, you store a closed letter at INPI, as proof of priority in case of debate) I hope also that once the patent application start, it should also block posterious similar patent to be applied if Defkalion simply have retro-engineered, or reinvented from rumors, the same device... and then have simply worked hard to make it industrial, efficient, stable... then they just have to say, hey andrea, what is your price? or howmuch you pay for our engineering job ? with careful respect of course... they simply cannot force the patent owner to sell or buy... they will need good diplomacy (maybe Professor Chris Stremmenos could make it ?) 2011/11/29 peter.heck...@arcor.de If it is true, then it is a case of scientific fraud and industrial spionage. If its untrue and they all collaborate behind the scenes, then ist is a gigantic staged investment fraud. In both cases it is a case for Interpol. For now I think they are all gangsters working together behind the scenes until something else is proven. This case could have been avoided. Rossi could easily claim priority if he had done a conclusive irrefutable calorimetry test, e.g. a realworld heating application that was measured by scientists and trustable witnesses. He had serious proposals and offers enough. Peter
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Defkalion: “We have Rossi’s formula”
what is more sensible for me is that in the article they pretend that the e-cat cannot be stable for more of 24hour because of the design that create hot-sport in the middle(explanation is credible)... the second most sensible point is that they pretend to have solved the problem, meaning that it can be protected by a different patent... CF cannot be patent, but any new and useful recipe can be... if true Rossi's patent is turned around, or dependent of defkalion's... it looks like what I say about patent race... hard to keep an IP from creative competitors... I just hope that each of them will get reward for their competences, despite their respective weakness... would be a pity if only one survive the battle. but history is not fair. this story, true or scam, is already a fantastic scenario, of the quality of DSK affair. and the characters playing inside are already dign of Shakespeare theater... we are seeing the history of the 21th century being written. 2011/11/29 Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com Hello group, Have a read at this article posted today on NyTeknik. It's about the backstage of tomorrow's Defkalion Announcement: http://www.nyteknik.se/**nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/**article3353181.ecehttp://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3353181.ece
Re: [Vo]:Congress cuts the Gordian knot of aviation patents in 1917
the need to merge the patent like it has been for plane seems reasonable. the notion of taxing cold fusion is classic for IP or any business. Windows is a tax on PC... state or private is a polemic detail. the CF inventors could merge their patents to accelerate the developpement of applications before the patents expires. patent is a temporary monopoly granted in exchange of publication, to avoid secret and inventor abuse... one national or international body could help, or even be create to help, that mutualisation. stealing the patent to the ublic will be a solution hard to impose in today's world, but possible sine the real bosses of the worlds are big corp, that don't yet own the patent... so asking the pupet state to steal it is an option. this will be explained in a popular way, but will be done to avoid the incumbent elit to lose their position... so in my opinion the inventors should mutualize quickly before being screwed by big players.
Re: [Vo]:Larsen, LENR in Lithium batteries and burn out IPhone
not so sure. Lithium batteries, (except the LiFePO4, that are an interesting product) are known to burn or explose if badly build or badly treated (chargeed or discharger roughly). this is hy normally (except in some chinese fraudes copy) there are safety Mosfet that limit discharge deepness and charge/discharge speed. 2011/11/28 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Just after I read that Larsen thinks LENR reactions can occur inside Lithium Ion batteries I read this: http://www.rex.com.au/** MediaRelease/Files/295_**MR2025%20-%20Mobile%** 20Phone%20Self%20Combustion.**pdfhttp://www.rex.com.au/MediaRelease/Files/295_MR2025%20-%20Mobile%20Phone%20Self%20Combustion.pdfBattery was reported as glowing Red hot. AG
Re: [Vo]:Larsen, LENR in Lithium batteries and burn out IPhone
LENR are not well understood. it seems they happens, but the by product are not sure, and the theories are not proved. It is as presumptuous as to say that any kind of fusion produce neutron, gamma, and so-on, as presumptuous as to pretend that any current circulating produce heating , or any liquid have non null viscosity. the theory of Ni-H LENR does not seems confirmed... Rossi talk about Cu, but the isotopic ratio is not clear... He talk about gamma and alpha, but few. only thing clear is heat. HH fusion causing neutron then transmutation does not seems credible. H+Ni transmutation seems more credible, but intermediate are not clear. 3-particle events are also possible... open subject. 2011/11/28 peter.heck...@arcor.de But nobody was hurt by radiation. So no nuclear reactions.
Re: [Vo]:Larsen, LENR in Lithium batteries and burn out IPhone
OT : the LiFePO4 battery don't have that problem. they can sustain hard charge or discharge, support fire or explosion, staying as flegmatic like an english man. they have a slightly lower massic capacity, but not so much after some real use. I don't understand why they are not so common... maybe IP problems... 2011/11/28 Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com It's a common problem with Li batteries,
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
experience of small companies owning patents, or small inventors owning patents, is that big corps usually find a way to get around, especially when collaborating with the inventor before. (It is why the inventor of smartcard get out of France, feeling abused by his big partner) I'm sure that Rossi won't be able to block similar devices if it works. patents are also used to block small companies, by fear of legal battle (that they will win, but after being bankrupted). I'm sure that if a big corp own a patent, no small will dare to innovate (alone) in the domain. il also helps big companies to block good (or bad) patent infrigement accusation, but making bad counter accusations... (see Apple/MS/intel/samsung battles) the expensive patent office are mostly useful for big corp, to maintain dominance of the big corp. strategic for the nation! small inventors seldom succeed alone, but there are some lucky guys.few. 2011/11/28 Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com So, if I understand you correctly, patent protection doesn't work. So why do we bother with an expensive patent office and all those millions (billions?) of patents?
Re: [Vo]:Krivit provides details of deal Celani offered Rossi and Rossi's rejection of it
by the way, we observe the situation from far away, without good legal tools. abour Rossi's company, Defkalion and so on, the only reasonable possibility of scam, is that Defkalion is a fake company, partner of the scam, the secret client(s) too... does anybody have access to the legal registrar of company in greece, to see if Defkalion is real, if it already have a business. are there uncriticable report par third party of the physical/legal reality of various partners. for me the scam is only possible if we have a fake image of the reality form internet. on internet nobody knows if you are a dog. and maybe it is a network of dog that scam us. if not, there is something real to care about. no intermediate possible.
Re: [Vo]:Report on Rossi's visit to Boston
Rossi's behavior is quite coeherent with a soft-paranoid version. Scam is not defendable. let's imagine the option. MY say, there are no clients, or fake client (actor, friend of scam). if no client, no cash from clients. (as say MV here) where from ? from investors ? no public share sales... where is the scam ? no room for it. if client is real : - that client agree to pay billions if it works, big bucks. - he have to be suspicious because he know that CF is officially a scam or a mistake. at least shareholders ask him for Due Diligence. - he can pay a billion, so he cam pay a good lab engineer, and even a magician to check all. - he can bring meters - he was accepted to supervise the experiment touching the pipes and boxes, allowed to installe meters where possible, outside only, but Rossi cannot refuse any reasonabledemand - the client have put meters every where useful for him - he have checked all he want out of the boxes - he use also his own body captors (noise, heat, smell) to confirm mesures - saying that the client can bee fooled by wet steam, is taking him stupid. the client is not a scientist, but a business engineer prepared to see a fraud. - however he might don't care about the precision of measure, provides that +/- 20% it is what he want... even having half the power is a happy end... you don't drop your chicken if it produce only small golden eggs. so: - if the machine consume much, sure he know it , - if it has stored heat in thermal mass, he can feel it (smell, room temp, IR rays, thermometers) however: - rossi and the client don't care about us... like in poker, if you don't pay, you don't see. moreover we are not even on the table. - doubt is good for Rossi and his client, because it slow competitors and finance market reaction. - rossi is a man who fight against the unbelief, the trash mafia, the government politicians and ecologists, nearly get ruined, get to jail, see the physicists community treat regular scientific studies as fraud without considering facts... he cannot be easily trusting... he have to be paranoid, rebel, stubborn, dubious, the behavior of Rossico seems strange, but first it can be analyzed logical if you assert that there is a running pattent and commercial war. but I'm even thinking that all Rossi behavior is not only rational, but simply emotional... he have so much pain, hate, furor, pride, fear, that his behavior is more like the one of a wild roof cat than a bedroom cat. anyway, his behavior is far from a plain old scam. at worst he might be (badly) lying about the performance of his baby... it is a bit what he did, and admit, about the instability of his reactor. NI partneship is thus a good business answer (as an engineer I'll do the same, to fight DGT, or else as my former schoolmates and Eng. schools). as I say befor, the proposed scenarii for scam, error, and so on ar not credible... as incredible as the 9/11 complot. too many people in the scam, too much complex for the goal, to much budget... should go to Occam's Barber Shop.
Re: [Vo]:hydrogen refill
FYI i've found this FAQ http://faq.ecat.com/113090/i-was-wondering-if-you-may-inform-us-as-to-the-amount-of-hydrogen-that-will-be-required-to-run-an-ecatfor/ say that for 24h the 10kW e-cat use 0.2g of H... it is hard to interpret about Ni... the 0.2g might be just the fixed value to fill the Ni for 6 month... in that case, it can fill 12g of nickel at loading factor 1/1... but what about the volume used to fill the pipes? maybe is it 0.1g of Ni, 0.0016g of H loaded, and the 0.198 rest to fill the pipes and chambers. it can also be just the leaks for one day, telling nothing about the quantity stored in the Ni, and thus, the Ni quantity... and implying that it consume 3.6kg of H for a 1MW on 6month... but what about Ni? it can be a mix... so, missing data to estimate Ni quantity, nor H consumption and cause of the consumption (loading, leaks, reactions)... not yet answer to my FAQ http://faq.ecat.com/113004/in-faq-how-much-nickel-and-hydrogen-will-it-take-to-generate-one-megawatt-of-heat-continuously-for-six/ on the site, but he seems to copy FAQ and answer from another source ... if someone know where to deposit question, so they ane answered clearly. if someone find a better analysis... 2011/11/24 Alain dit le Cycliste alain.sep...@gmail.com so two article of the same FAQ are not coherent. http://faq.ecat.com/112273/how-much-ni-is-in-the-cell/ http://faq.ecat.com/112449/how-much-nickel-and-hydrogen-will-it-take-to-generate-one-megawatt-of-heat-continuously-for-six-months/ is'nt there a known issue with an error of unit that rossi admit. I remember some comment about that mistake. 10g instead of 10kg... ??? note that the cost estimated of the powder is about 1 euro/MW.6month http://faq.ecat.com/112602/if-selling-price-is-planned-for-500-euros-per-1-kw-of-output-capability-this-is-5000-euros-for-10-kw/ and that 1kG of raw nickel is 13Eur/kg on the market... incoherences... To clear the doubt, I put the question on the FAQ. http://faq.ecat.com/113004/in-faq-how-much-nickel-and-hydrogen-will-it-take-to-generate-one-megawatt-of-heat-continuously-for-six/ maybe the different base numbers we have explain the disagreement.
Re: [Vo]:bit.ly/cold-fusion
the critics could look ok when anomaly was around 20W and below % with old instruments. maybe even critics could not sustain honest check (accusing a chemist of failing heat computation, is like accusing an accountant to break a balance). with reports, if they are honest, like the one about the test in sweden on the small e-cat, reporting 25kW anomaly, any chemical process is insufficient. maybe we should find, scientifically, why this domain could not , and still cannot convince, despite much better proof than many well funded science domain, that play with model, uncertain data, hazardous proxy measures. despite the fact that instead of costing trillions , it cost few billions, for an easy checkable result... could be interesting in human systems engineering (some people call that sociology). really I don't understand current situation, and why people are not massively interested... 8-/ I feel as if I missed something, about CF or about humanity. 2011/11/25 Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com [ summary of critique: ... as usual in LENR research, an enthusiastic team created a black witch's cauldron, full of impurities, sealed and invisible to detailed observation during months of cooking in H2 gas at high temperatures. Probably, corrosion opened up additional conducting paths, reducing the total electrical resistance fed by the constant voltage power supply, increasing the total input electric power via increased current flow, which increased ordinary electric heat effects in complex ways within the black box. ...
Re: [Vo]:New Youtube videos from SRI features a lecture by McKubre
moreover Deuterium is known to be a killing contaminant of Ni-H cells... maybe is it why the fuel have to be changed despite very few is used? i'm curious to know why the Ni fuel have to be change every 6month, while it is very little consumed? it is cooked (crytal lattice modified by heat, chemical reactions), or contaminated with Cu, or D ... anyway , it is good to have at last phenomenological science, that works before the model know how... we are far from the dogmatic science and models abused as proof. 2011/11/25 Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com likely
Re: [Vo]:New Youtube videos from SRI features a lecture by McKubre
seems reasonable to fear that kind of problem. could reduce/kill the diffusion of that technology to small home units , and globally increase the price. the good point of price, is that it is not raw materials, but work, unlike middle-east oil and alike. the governance of that energy shall be better that thos based on mines. as I've read: - the quantity of nickel and H is small, but it is really consumed (40% of the Ni load - but Ni is 99.999% - H very pure too - No D, no N, No O ... however, like microelectronics micro-devices, one can expect - les expensive, smaller solution to reach purity and closedness - reductions of the constraints to a less expensive level, when they are better known assuming tha rossi say right about his long term experiements we can expect the problem are solved over 6month... also feel that when good engineer (like NI anet the mysterious clieny are) will work on the subject, the will find good efficient solutions. Rossi seems not to bee the best industrializer on earth 8) 2011/11/26 Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com *However Rossi has said in the past that Deuterium kills the reaction.* ... I predict that any reactor that uses the Piantelli reaction where high hydrogen purity is required will suffer from low power production and short run times due the contamination of gaseous boson based transmutation reaction products.
Re: [Vo]:hydrogen refill
so two article of the same FAQ are not coherent. http://faq.ecat.com/112273/how-much-ni-is-in-the-cell/ http://faq.ecat.com/112449/how-much-nickel-and-hydrogen-will-it-take-to-generate-one-megawatt-of-heat-continuously-for-six-months/ is'nt there a known issue with an error of unit that rossi admit. I remember some comment about that mistake. 10g instead of 10kg... ??? note that the cost estimated of the powder is about 1 euro/MW.6month http://faq.ecat.com/112602/if-selling-price-is-planned-for-500-euros-per-1-kw-of-output-capability-this-is-5000-euros-for-10-kw/ and that 1kG of raw nickel is 13Eur/kg on the market... incoherences... To clear the doubt, I put the question on the FAQ. http://faq.ecat.com/113004/in-faq-how-much-nickel-and-hydrogen-will-it-take-to-generate-one-megawatt-of-heat-continuously-for-six/ maybe the different base numbers we have explain the disagreement. 2011/11/24 Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com Repeat from earlier in this thread: http://faq.ecat.com/112449/how-much-nickel-and-hydrogen-will-it-take-to-generate-one-megawatt-of-heat-continuously-for-six-months/ 1MW needs 10kg Nickel powder, so about 100g per ecat (will run for 6 months) + 1g of hydrogen per ecat per day (in reality far less than this is used, but there will be leakage etc). On 23 November 2011 20:33, Alain dit le Cycliste alain.sep...@gmail.comwrote: that is not what rossi says on the FAQ. he talks about 10mg/kW of H, and 100mg/kW of Ni however, in my previeux computation I'me made a mistake... 1MW should need 10g of H and 100g of Ni if the number for Ni is Ok, but H is a bit exagerated, for 100g of Ni you need 100g/59=1.7g hydrogen... strange it fall on that number... but maybe it is that rossi exagerate the need of H. maybe also he count not only the loading of H (1.7g), but also the leaks on 6 month (8h it seems) anyway without knowing the machine and it's behavioor it is like guessing the gas consumption behavior of a car, not having driven any, not used the engine. 2011/11/23 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com 2011/11/23 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: Here however the measured value was 1000 fold too little, because used amount of hydrogen should have been something in order of 1.7 kg that was initially reported. Not 1.7 grams.
Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:Overview of (Ahern) Vibronic Energy Technologies Approach
2011/11/24 Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com Not impossible, just unlikely, in the absence of good evidence. I don't agree. SC was not understood, but the idea that quantum transitions could be inhibited at low temperature was not contrary to any calculations of reaction rates or anything, and was certainly not implausible given the understanding of the time. And of course the evidence that it happened was unequivocal. The mechanism was just not conceived of. Exothermic nuclear reactions in non-radioactive material require a lot of concentrated energy, not absolutely, because tunnel effect exists, like virtuel bosonic agragate, and SC is an example of such. HiTemp SC is still not explainable. We just accept it, because nobody told the press it is a fake by frauding labs. If skepticism was so deep with HTSC, sure it would be ignored, because there can be a fraud justification of anything, especially if the researcher that succeed in reproducting the experimenst are accused immediately of fraud. and that is highly unlikely. It is of course possible that some method not conceived of can make it happen, but concentrating thousands of times ordinary chemical bond strengths in single atomic sites is far less plausible (yes, in hind-sight) than some kind of pairing phenomenon to make electrons look like bosons. But most importantly, the evidence for it does not justify a need to reject current predictions of reaction rates. Right. No one claims that cold fusion has been proven impossible. The claim is that its existence has not been proven. on the explanation, it seems that no theory is convincing, maybe because the best physicians, and the mass of world physicians, did not work on it. Proponents claim hundreds of professional scientists have been working on it for 22 years. Maybe they are not the best, but then one should ask why the best consider the pursuit not worth their time. many more on HTSC, no results yet. I agree my argument is weak... maybe is it simply no luck. Many decades, no doubt. How many years between fire and an explanation for it? Many more. The question to ask is how many years between the discovery of SC and the acceptance of the reality of the phenomenon? That happened fast. How many years between the discovery of high-temp SC and the nobel prize? About 1 or 2. Cold fusion's problem is not just the absence of a consistent theory. It's the absence of strong evidence. you hit the hard point. for me it could be normal science, with normal skepticism, except that here, the press decided that it was a fraud. I say the press, not the hot physics lobby, because after believing all from FP, the press heard the good arguments from the physicists, and some bad, to decide definitely that it was a fake. then the politicians follow, the establishment in science follow cowardly... unable to go back. then it became as evident as geocentric system. many experiments were done, with better tools, un questionable heat results... but impossible to pass the consensus barrier... today, i don't say that it might be true, I say that I cannot imagine a physical/psychological/sociological theory, based on experience of the past and knowledge of (human) nature, to explain what is happening, except that CF exists. Rossi migh event make a scam, defkalion too, with a probability lower than you and me are financed by Exxon, but many other facts stays in the back... And I'd rather think antennas cause cancer and alien are raping humans, than imagine it can be a complete fraud from the beginning... anyway, there is a mystery for me ... why is it not evident to everybody having informations ? Maybe I'm missing something, but the solution is not in the (tech) details, but in the (sociological) system. there can be complete self-feed scam, on large scale, but it follow some rule, and one is real (despite not evident) consensus. another is a complex ecosystem of parasites (finance, industry, workers, researcher of various domains, NGO, politics). clearly CF does not have such ecosystem, rather the opposite (maybe the opposition to CF follow the honest scam scheme... hum, an idea).
Re: [Vo]:Report on Rossi's visit to Boston
some peopl here imagin that rossi can be a scammer... It does not seems credible, according tou his strange behavior itself. if you try to profile him from his behavior, you find more a weak-paranoid style persister in process com. He does not behave like the usual weak-sociopath style promoter in process com... one can undestand his paranoid tendencies if you accept that he have fighet for his uncommon (crasy) idias, and have been screwed by the systems and some good citizens (mafia?) in his first business... his visible oack of sociopathic skils, lack of seduction, commercial behavior, theatrical show, make him probably bad in manipulation, politic, and sale. probably he have also a weak passive-agressive style rebel, that make hime choose against everybody opinion projects... also making him break relationships in a lunatic way... his behavior with defkalion, breaking, talking, telling how he tried to manipulate DGT... is a bit pathetic, between paranoia and teanager rebelion... anyway to do that job, so long, so crazy, despite critics , persister and rebel competences are needed... for a scam you need more sociopath carpet-saler. his lack of rigor in communication and measures, mean a bad competence in obsessionnal style thinker in proces com... asuming my profiling is right, the behavior of rossi is quite logic. I'm not suprised that he is bad in sale, in business relation, in measures... however he is anoug stubborn and crazy to keep working on a suicidal project and succeed... after that his weak paranoia (a bit a kind of realism, knowing his situation) will make him secret, unstable partner... other competences will make hime not a good engineer... don't ask to someone who fight againt the systems for 20 years, and get to jail because of that, to be an easy man. 2011/11/24 Craig Brown cr...@overunity.co Rossi's behaviour with regards to blocking independent testing is explained by the fact that he's sitting on potentially the world's most valuable IP and doesn't have a US or European patent yet. There is no need for the pseudosceptics to look for conspiracy theories.
Re: [Vo]:hydrogen refill
just to cite data from the FAQ http://faq.ecat.com/112273/how-much-ni-is-in-the-cell/ so the needed Ni is about 10mg/kW (with pg really consumed in 6 months) the needed H is about ten times less 1mg/kW note that CF according to the presented success, need a 1/1 loading ratio (in atoms) between the metal (Ni or Pd) and hydrogen (H or D) to form the metal hydrure/deuterure. strong purity is also needed , else the cell is contaminated and killed. nanopowder should increase surface (and change the crystallographic parameter), and quicen loading. here, in the FAQ numbers, the loading radio seems quite huge , since Ni is about 58+ more heavy than H, thus 10mg/kW Ni should match 0.17mg/kW (and nor 1mg)... maybe is there a problem of leaks, or some H ins loaded into normal metal to form normal metal hydrure... note that Hydrogen (like helium) is hard to keep in a bottle (leaking). bottle should be replaced every 6month according to some people (whatever the application). as far as i understand the principle of E-cat and CF, in theory is no leaks, the reactor could be let closed for decennies before the fuel is consumed. but maybe is the crystal matrix corrupted, by thermal effect, of my copper contamination (than may act as a dopant). anyway, like H bottle, it should be refiled every 6 month. according to my computation, and FAQ numbers, he real active leading should be 0.17mg/kW, thus 0.17g/MW (MW installed power, not real). another possibility is that the E-cat works at a loading factor much higher that 1... about incoherence, the strange stability of consumption despite size changed, think about leaks and loading in normal metals. think also about plain volume. about changes, maybe the losses are in a common element, and maybe is the plumbing better with the bigger version. It seems also that the model have changed (don't they use a 50kW unit instead?) don't hesitate to check my numbers and correct false assumptions.
Re: [Vo]:hydrogen refill
that is not what rossi says on the FAQ. he talks about 10mg/kW of H, and 100mg/kW of Ni however, in my previeux computation I'me made a mistake... 1MW should need 10g of H and 100g of Ni if the number for Ni is Ok, but H is a bit exagerated, for 100g of Ni you need 100g/59=1.7g hydrogen... strange it fall on that number... but maybe it is that rossi exagerate the need of H. maybe also he count not only the loading of H (1.7g), but also the leaks on 6 month (8h it seems) anyway without knowing the machine and it's behavioor it is like guessing the gas consumption behavior of a car, not having driven any, not used the engine. 2011/11/23 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com 2011/11/23 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: Here however the measured value was 1000 fold too little, because used amount of hydrogen should have been something in order of 1.7 kg that was initially reported. Not 1.7 grams.
Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:Overview of (Ahern) Vibronic Energy Technologies Approach
for those that repeat that CF is impossible , I can answer simply : - it breaks no basic rule of todays most validated models : Quantum Physic Reference Frame, and generel Relativity (unlike Opera neutrinos, perpetual movement, usable antigravity). it only breaks usual approach to compute. - it is no more, no less explained by todays physics than is High temperature superconductivity , and that was classic superconductivity and super-fluidity before BCS. anyway, that is not a proof, just on reason to say those that critics CF on it's impossibility, are... not scientifics. however in science unscientific behaviors are common... don't feel stupid, it's human. on the explanation, it seems that no theory is convincing, maybe because the best physicians, and the mass of world physicians, did not work on it. lack of cumulative effort, intelligence, and luck. anyway, how many years between superconductivity is observed, quantum physics is established, and BCS paper? howmany years between BCS paper and acceptation by the consensus? however it seems to works, and at least serious people should look at it. maybe is it what happens, but serious peoples who test it become unserious according to the consensus.
