I am curious. What is your fork used for, and can we look at it, or screenshots?On 26 Jan 2024, at 17:03, ibrahim via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
First of all, I have my own fork of plan9 which was/is used by a few hundred users.My fork is based on 9legacy. And I'm really surprised to
the few remaining "original Labs' Plan 9" people anyways all went to
concentrate on golang. so if you wanna hang out with them, they have a
very big and active community, too.
it keeps a lot of the core spirit behind plan9 alive, just that it
abstracts away the operating system layer. i might not
I would like to extend my gratitude to everyone who took the
time to provide their valuable feedback. I fully acknowledge that there
appears to be limited interest in the proposal. Your time and assistance
are greatly appreciated.
--vic
--
9fans: 9fans
If the complaint is that the forks of Plan 9 from Bell Labs are not "mainline"
because they are not the original Labs' Plan 9, then damn the creators of Plan
9 for creating their own C compiler and not using mainline C.
And damn those who did not stick with K C and demanded ANSI C and ISO C.
First of all, I have my own fork of plan9 which was/is used by a few hundred
users.
My fork is based on 9legacy. And I'm really surprised to regularly see this
discussion about a 'mainline' and the argumentation against 9front. Fact is :
9legacy provides patches and enhancements from 9front. I
Quoth Edouard Klein :
> I, for one, will attend, barring any incident.
Same!
> I will send my submission in a frenzy panic minutes before the deadline,
> as one usually does.
Hey, same!! :D
--
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I, for one, will attend, barring any incident.
I will send my submission in a frenzy panic minutes before the deadline,
as one usually does.
"Don A. Bailey" writes:
> Last I checked (you) were asking for people to sign up. What’s the actual
> attendee count at this point?
>
>
>> On Jan 25,
> This was a simple comment on why I strongly disagreed with VT’s request for
it didn't get displayed as just a simple comment here. maybe you
should fix your email program.
> a 5th Release. I explained myself. I did not get emotional, nor am I
> emotional now.
How is this relevant to the
> I trust the sources that come from 9legacy/9pio but I don't have any
> interest in the mess of whatever 9front is supposed to be.
Nobody asked for your trust. Can you please elaborate which part of
9front you consider "messy" ?
--
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Permalink:
Tough. ❤️
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 10:51 PM, Lucio De Re wrote:
>
> On 1/26/24, Don A. Bailey wrote:
>> I literally don’t care.
>>
> Then I don't think you belong here.
>
> If you believe you can excommunicate the majority of Plan 9
> contributors (have you counted the members of the "Pure 9"
This is such a weird message coming from the dude that's been spewing
argumentative shit all over everyone's inboxes for the last two days.
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 7:48 PM Don A. Bailey wrote:
> I don’t think you realize that you have your entire emotional perception
> of this situation
On 1/26/24, Don A. Bailey wrote:
> I literally don’t care.
>
Then I don't think you belong here.
If you believe you can excommunicate the majority of Plan 9
contributors (have you counted the members of the "Pure 9" vs "9front"
clans, at all?) by dictum ex cathedra, I think you belong in the
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 10:04 PM wrote:
> Since the Plan 9 Foundation doesn't focus on technical aspects, Would the
> formation of a Plan 9 Core Team be the next logical step? My understanding is
> the core team would decide technical direction and implementation. What are
> your thoughts?
If
Since the Plan 9 Foundation doesn't focus on technical aspects, Would the
formation of a Plan 9 Core Team be the next logical step? My understanding is
the core team would decide technical direction and implementation. What are
your thoughts?
--vic
On Fri, Jan 26, 2024, at 11:31, Don A.
I don’t think you realize that you have your entire emotional perception of
this situation flipped.
This was a simple comment on why I strongly disagreed with VT’s request for a
5th Release. I explained myself. I did not get emotional, nor am I emotional
now. What I did receive is a lot of
I literally don’t care.
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 8:18 PM, Jacob Moody wrote:
>
> On 1/25/24 17:38, Don A. Bailey wrote:
>> It’s telling that you see a difference of opinion as a temper tantrum. A
>> major problem with people’s perspective of 9front and the current plan 9
>> community,
How you react to being told that you are behaving poorly, and it’s neither
appreciated or respected, speaks volumes. It’s telling, as you say, that your
take is to get defensive and, honestly, shitty. Emotional maturity may be
lacking in general on the list but please do not posture from some
I have just one question. Is this concern of 9front code making its way
into the codebase of Plan 9 based on reality? Is there evident cause for
concern?
The 9front developers develop 9front. Plan 9 from Bell Labs is not being
developed, so there’s no “upstream” there is no “mainline” so there’s
I look forward to not seeing 9front as a part of a formal release, then.
Thanks!
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 7:00 PM, o...@eigenstate.org wrote:
>
> Great; let me repeat one more time: The Plan 9
> foundation does not currently engage in technical
> work such as putting together releases. There
On 1/25/24 17:38, Don A. Bailey wrote:
> It’s telling that you see a difference of opinion as a temper tantrum. A
> major problem with people’s perspective of 9front and the current plan 9
> community, honestly.
I didn't see it as a tempter tantrum until you stopped replying in good faith
and
>
> Hold your hand, my lord!
> I have served you ever since I was a child.
> But better service have I never done you
> Than now to bid you hold.
(King Lear, First Servant)
I think it's a mistake to split into factions. The collective is small
enough that it's almost like the joke about someone
It’s telling that you see a difference of opinion as a temper tantrum. A major
problem with people’s perspective of 9front and the current plan 9 community,
honestly.
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 6:35 PM, Jacob Moody wrote:
>
> On 1/25/24 16:03, Don A. Bailey wrote:
>> I’m aware you’re a member
Great; let me repeat one more time: The Plan 9
foundation does not currently engage in technical
work such as putting together releases. There will
be no release from the P9F including 9front code,
because there will be no release from the P9F.
If you feel the need for a release, I encourage you
Last I checked (you) were asking for people to sign up. What’s the actual
attendee count at this point?
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 5:33 PM, o...@eigenstate.org wrote:
>
> Also: We're organizing IWP9 largely as a forum
> for folks like you to figure out how to make this
> all happen; there's going
On 1/25/24 16:03, Don A. Bailey wrote:
> I’m aware you’re a member of the foundation.
>
> What I want I think I’ve made clear. I do not want to see a formal release of
> Plan 9 that includes anything from the 9front project. I do not want 9front
> merged with what I tongue-in-cheek term
I’m aware you’re a member of the foundation.
What I want I think I’ve made clear. I do not want to see a formal release of
Plan 9 that includes anything from the 9front project. I do not want 9front
merged with what I tongue-in-cheek term “mainline” (9legacy / 9pio updated
patch sets). I’d
That’s why I use quotes around mainline.
And what you stated is also a big reason I’m not interested in 9front. No idea
what your direction is or what your interests are. I like a lot of the things
done by the core team, and the direction set by them. I’m not interested in
9front.
Seeing a
Yeah but we don’t necessarily need patches from 9front. The ones of good quality are really already being pulled in. Cinap does a lot of solid work. My only issue is seeing the two maintain a strong delineation, which I obviously prefer.On Jan 25, 2024, at 4:04 PM, Eli Cohen wrote:we've had
I’ve literally never even seen your name before.
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 3:45 PM, Michael Misch wrote:
>
> This is incredibly rude and tone-deaf. Your convictions aside, dismissing an
> opinion like this is simply stonewalling, and quite frankly obliterated
> whatever respect I may have
Also: We're organizing IWP9 largely as a forum
for folks like you to figure out how to make this
all happen; there's going to be plenty of time
between talks as well as hacking days to figure
out what code needs to be written, what patches
exist in people's local trees, plenty of napkins
(and, if
Also: We're organizing IWP9 largely as a forum
for folks like you to figure out how to make this
all happen; there's going to be plenty of time
between talks as well as hacking days to figure
out what code needs to be written, what patches
exist in people's local trees, plenty of napkins
(and, if
Quoth Don A. Bailey :
> I’d prefer the sources to be managed by the foundation and would
> like to only receive patches through them.
Speaking as a member of the foundation, we do not manage sources
or distribute patches. We do not maintain a Plan 9 distribution,
and currently have no plans to
Cool assessment, Jung Noam.
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 3:20 PM wrote:
> Quoth Don Bailey :
> > Cool rant.
>
> It's incredible to me that you can put in so much effort to make sure that
> the strength of your convictions is clear, while also putting in so little
> effort that nobody wants to be
I'm not sure what a mainline Plan 9 means. Can you define
that term, and tell me who maintains it?
Quoth Don Bailey :
> I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it.
>
> If 9front becomes the "mainline" 9, I will stop using 9 altogether. Both as
> a user and a developer.
>
> I
Quoth Don Bailey :
> Direction comes from people writing code... but you write code for 9front,
> yes? What does that have to do with mainline Plan 9? And what does that
> have to do with the direction set forth by the people that actually
> designed it?
>
I'm not sure I understand the point of
we've had discussions like this before. I do agree that having a more
"original" Plan 9 option like 9legacy is a good idea. in terms of what that
actually means doing, a lot of the obvious effort would be to go into
turning stuff from 9front into patches for 9legacy. I started to do this to
make a
Quoth Don Bailey :
> Cool rant.
It's incredible to me that you can put in so much effort to make sure that
the strength of your convictions is clear, while also putting in so little
effort that nobody wants to be around you long enough to find out what they
actually are.
Quoth Don Bailey :
> I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it.
Are you okay?
--
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Cool rant.
D
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 1:50 PM Jacob Moody wrote:
> It doesn't matter if one is "mainline" or not, you've completely missed
> the point of my mail.
> One is usable and the other is not. One has a community, the other does
> not. One has people
> who share source, there other
And if 9front stays 9front, that's fine by me. Do it up :-)
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 1:13 PM Jacob Moody wrote:
> Do you have specific issues with our code? All I've seen is vague finger
> pointing.
> We don't need some authority to point at 9front and say its "mainline",
> people
> see where
Sometimes gatekeeping is good. It's OK if folks don't agree.
I think it's healthy to create a strict regimen around "mainline". I am not
against 9front doing whatever it wants, I just would prefer if the two did
not merge. It's important to keep the 9 ecosystem stable, imo.
D
On Thu, Jan 25,
This is incredibly rude and tone-deaf. Your convictions aside, dismissing an
opinion like this is simply stonewalling, and quite frankly obliterated
whatever respect I may have started to develop for you.
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 08:44, Don Bailey wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what all this was, so I
Don, you have been gate keeping this whole thread. I see noone agreeing with
you either. We could all be a little kinder to one another, especially since we
all have love for Plan 9.
— thedæmon
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 11:31 AM, Don Bailey <[don.bai...@gmail.com](mailto:On
Thu, Jan 25, 2024
It doesn't matter if one is "mainline" or not, you've completely missed the
point of my mail.
One is usable and the other is not. One has a community, the other does not.
One has people
who share source, there other does not. Put your time where your mouth is and
do something
about the sorry
Cool gaslighting.
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 12:25 PM Bakul Shah wrote:
> On Jan 25, 2024, at 8:44 AM, Don Bailey wrote:
> >
> > I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it.
> >
> > If 9front becomes the "mainline" 9, I will stop using 9 altogether. Both
> as a user and a
On Jan 25, 2024, at 8:44 AM, Don Bailey wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it.
>
> If 9front becomes the "mainline" 9, I will stop using 9 altogether. Both as a
> user and a developer.
>
> I trust the sources that come from 9legacy/9pio but I don't have any
Sounds like you're happy keeping 9front separate from "mainline", then.
Works for me :-)
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 12:20 PM Jacob Moody wrote:
> On 1/25/24 09:35, Don Bailey wrote:
> > Direction comes from people writing code... but you write code for
> 9front, yes? What does that have to do
You're welcome!
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 12:09 PM Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 11:44:34AM -0500, Don Bailey wrote:
> > I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it.
>
> This tracks. Thanks for your insight.
>
> khm
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 11:44:34AM -0500, Don Bailey wrote:
> I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it.
This tracks. Thanks for your insight.
khm
--
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Permalink:
Do you have specific issues with our code? All I've seen is vague finger
pointing.
We don't need some authority to point at 9front and say its "mainline", people
see where the effort is going, endorsement or not.
On 1/25/24 10:44, Don Bailey wrote:
> I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't
I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it.
If 9front becomes the "mainline" 9, I will stop using 9 altogether. Both as
a user and a developer.
I trust the sources that come from 9legacy/9pio but I don't have any
interest in the mess of whatever 9front is supposed to be.
D
On
On 1/25/24 09:35, Don Bailey wrote:
> Direction comes from people writing code... but you write code for 9front,
> yes? What does that have to do with mainline Plan 9? And what does that have
> to do with the direction set forth by the people that actually designed it?
There is no "path for
Direction comes from people writing code... but you write code for 9front,
yes? What does that have to do with mainline Plan 9? And what does that
have to do with the direction set forth by the people that actually
designed it?
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 7:20 AM wrote:
> This email suffers from
> [...] then it is not surprising that people
> misunderstand your intentions.
and otherwise, too. you'll just have to adapt your predictions (or
expectations?) a little if you're so frequently surprised.
--
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Permalink:
> I am not a fan of the weird 9front split from the standard repo. I’d prefer
> the sources to be managed by the foundation and would like to only receive
> patches through them.
Are you speaking as part of the foundation? As a developer? Or as a User?
Me, as a user, I would also appreciate if
This email suffers from a lack of semicolons;
Bell labs is extremely dead at this point, and
direction comes from people writing code; once
the work begins, people are sometimes willing to
help -- but only once work begins.
Quoth vic.thac...@fastmail.fm:
> Dear 9fans, as enthusiasts and experts
Hello All!
5 cent's from me
There was Akaros, HarveyOS (ideas not so bad), NIX (kernel).
Modern academia, imho, tries to solve issues in lunix that was
already solved in Plan9.
Modern programming - python (imho another Basic), Rust(? even in kernel?),
NodeJS (who loves it???), Go-lang (we already
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 06:17:39AM +0900, vic.thac...@fastmail.fm wrote:
> However, it is challenging for me to engage effectively in a community
> when there's no unified vision to align with.
We all like Plan 9. Identify the people who like the same things about
Plan 9 that you like about Plan
On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 10:49:33PM -0500, Don A. Bailey wrote:
> I use it. It’s also my advice. It wasn’t “advice” from Rob, it was a design
> choice. There’s more value in that than “advice”.
It's a design choice nobody can implement, because it presumes that the
starting point is correct
On 1/25/24, Noam Preil wrote:
> I wasn't talking to you :P
>
> That was a response to the post that looked AI-generated. I sincerely
> apologize if I accidentally responded to your post instead, but I don't
> think I did
>
If you find it difficult to quote at least the sender of the message
you
Thank you for your valuable insight. I appreciate being corrected when wrong.
The purpose of my query regarding the development of a vision for Plan 9 is to
deeply understand the collective aspirations and goals of our community. I
firmly believe that aligning our collective efforts with a
I wasn't talking to you :P
That was a response to the post that looked AI-generated. I sincerely
apologize if I accidentally responded to your post instead, but I don't
think I did
--
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Permalink:
I've been posting on 9fans for 20 years, hacking the kernel as long, and
porting it to various chips and SoCs for as long. I don't have to prove
anything to you.
On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 10:50 PM Noam Preil wrote:
> It might help to believe that if you wrote actual ideas about what
> should be
I use it. It’s also my advice. It wasn’t “advice” from Rob, it was a design
choice. There’s more value in that than “advice”.
Not interested in your theoretical discussions or trolling. Thanks.
D
> On Jan 24, 2024, at 10:44 PM, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jan
That seems like a lot of work, though; surely, we can all just share a
rootfs over 9p!!
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> One reason I responded with no is that Rob noted that further 9
> releases should not be a release at all, but should be fluid updates
> through the network. I think if 9 lives on it should be that was,
> as intended.
I agree. Maybe we could use some sort of distributed source control
system.
It might help to believe that if you wrote actual ideas about what
should be done.
- Noam Preil
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On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 08:53:30PM -0500, Don A. Bailey wrote:
> Tbf I took it as genuine.
>
> One reason I responded with no is that Rob noted that further 9 releases
> should not be a release at all, but should be fluid updates through the
> network. I think if 9 lives on it should be that
On 1/24/24 19:53, Don A. Bailey wrote:
> Tbf I took it as genuine.
>
> One reason I responded with no is that Rob noted that further 9 releases
> should not be a release at all, but should be fluid updates through the
> network. I think if 9 lives on it should be that was, as intended.
I
Tbf I took it as genuine.
One reason I responded with no is that Rob noted that further 9 releases should
not be a release at all, but should be fluid updates through the network. I
think if 9 lives on it should be that was, as intended.
I am not a fan of the weird 9front split from the
To clarify, my message represented a genuine exploration of the idea of
envisioning a new release.
--vic
On Thu, Jan 25, 2024, at 10:01, Don Bailey wrote:
> Breh. No.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 7:45 PM wrote:
>
>> Dear 9fans, as enthusiasts and experts of Plan 9, you are undoubtedly
>>
Breh. No.
On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 7:45 PM wrote:
> Dear 9fans, as enthusiasts and experts of Plan 9, you are undoubtedly
> aware of the unique position this operating system holds in the world of
> distributed computing. Its influence on modern computing paradigms is
> undeniable. In the
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