Re: EU Software Patents
Terrific. In Germany, political parties _are_ charitable organizations (gemeinnützig) and donations to them are fully tax-deductable. Regards Henning On Wed, 2003-08-27 at 20:28, Brian Behlendorf wrote: On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, David Reid wrote: Bill, are you seriously saying that laws in the EU will not have any impact on the way the ASF carries on it's affairs? It saddens me as I thought we'd moved away from this sort of small minded view of the world :( No, it means that, at least as far as the IRS is concerned, this is potentially an issue, as 501c3 charitable organizations are not supposed to be politically active. The intent is to prevent people from being able to make political donations to support a candidate's election and write off those donations, as one example. However, there are plenty of advocacy organizations whose 501c3 status is not a question: the EFF, for example. So long as any advocacy we do is around issues and not elections or votes or specific politicians, we're good. Brian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED]+49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/ Java, perl, Solaris, Linux, xSP Consulting, Web Services freelance consultant -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire Dominate!! Dominate!! Eat your young and aggregate! I have grotty silicon! -- AOL CD when played backwards (User Friendly - 200-10-15) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
Hi, On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Andrew Savory wrote: Some of you may already be aware that on 1st September the European parliament will vote [1] on the issue of software patents. [1] http://swpat.ffii.org/news/03/plen0620/index.en.html Rumour has it that the McCarthy report [2] has been withdrawn from next week's European Parliament agenda. [2] http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/amccarthy0206/index.en.html I'd like to think it's at least in part thanks to our protests! Thanks everyone, Andrew. -- Andrew SavoryEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Managing Director Tel: +44 (0)870 741 6658 Luminas Internet Applications Fax: +44 (0)700 598 1135 Orixo alliance: http://www.orixo.com/ Web:www.luminas.co.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Andrew Savory wrote: Rumour has it that the McCarthy report [2] has been withdrawn from next week's European Parliament agenda. [2] http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/amccarthy0206/index.en.html Aye - I've heard the same; but Cordis still shows it on the roll. So it is nto formal yet. Dw - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Danny Angus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If anyone's counting a show of hands here I'm a European and +1 to opposing software patents in Europe and +1 to the ASF supporting the demo. Same here. Stefan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
In any case, I'd like to advise everyone to state your opposition by just writing to your Representative/Member of EU Parliament: see http://wwwdb.europarl.eu.int/ep5/owa/ p_meps2.repartition?ilg=ENiorig=home for their mail and postal addresses. And when you do - _please_ use a fax or postal mail (unless you know the MEP - and know that he actually personally reads email). Handwritten is fine too. And _do_ use your own local language. Dw - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: EU Software Patents
At 12:44 PM 8/26/2003, Danny Angus wrote: If anyone's counting a show of hands here I'm a European and +1 to opposing software patents in Europe and +1 to the ASF supporting the demo. I will say that I'm pleased the members were able to turn the ship so quickly to support the initiative, it shows exactly how far from lethargy our community is, even near the end of summer. I should point out though that ASF support of the protest is a bit odd. We are a US Delaware charitable corporation bound by (primarily) US law and patents (and US patent treaty obligations.) When the topic of US patent reform comes up (the insanity that has led to issues such as the .gif file format, SCO v.s. the world, etc) that we most carefully consider a position and reflect that in our activites. There are very stringent lobbing restrictions on the charitable corporation, but that does not mean we cannot have any positions (consider the various cancer foundations' support of anti-smoking efforts.) One thing I do not want from the foundation is a double standard applied to our positions on US v.s. Euro patents. Bill - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, David Reid wrote: Bill, are you seriously saying that laws in the EU will not have any impact on the way the ASF carries on it's affairs? It saddens me as I thought we'd moved away from this sort of small minded view of the world :( No, it means that, at least as far as the IRS is concerned, this is potentially an issue, as 501c3 charitable organizations are not supposed to be politically active. The intent is to prevent people from being able to make political donations to support a candidate's election and write off those donations, as one example. However, there are plenty of advocacy organizations whose 501c3 status is not a question: the EFF, for example. So long as any advocacy we do is around issues and not elections or votes or specific politicians, we're good. Brian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
--On Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:09:14 +0100 Andrew Savory [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to propose that we close (ie swap the front page for a protest page) as many of the Apache web sites as possible. Not to belittle this protest, but we do a good job of bringing our own sites down ourselves (or UnitedLayer does). If we were to do this, IMHO, it'd be at the board's direction - no one else has the authority to do this. If you want to provide a page that we could replace it with, that may make it easier to receive approval. -- justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
Justin Erenkrantz wrote: I'd like to propose that we close (ie swap the front page for a protest page) as many of the Apache web sites as possible. Not to belittle this protest, but we do a good job of bringing our own sites down ourselves (or UnitedLayer does). If we were to do this, IMHO, it'd be at the board's direction - no one else has the authority to do this. If you want to provide a page that we could replace it with, that may make it easier to receive approval. There is an almost standard page at http://swpat.ffii.org/group/demo/demo.en.html, so it would just be a matter of downloading and setting an .htaccess rule. But I understand that it might be pretty late to organize all this with such a short notice. Too bad, it's quite an important issue here. Ciao, -- Gianugo Rabellino Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com (Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: EU Software Patents
If anyone's counting a show of hands here I'm a European and +1 to opposing software patents in Europe and +1 to the ASF supporting the demo. d. -Original Message- From: Justin Erenkrantz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 August 2003 18:07 To: community@apache.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: EU Software Patents --On Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:09:14 +0100 Andrew Savory [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to propose that we close (ie swap the front page for a protest page) as many of the Apache web sites as possible. Not to belittle this protest, but we do a good job of bringing our own sites down ourselves (or UnitedLayer does). If we were to do this, IMHO, it'd be at the board's direction - no one else has the authority to do this. If you want to provide a page that we could replace it with, that may make it easier to receive approval. -- justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
* Danny Angus ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : If anyone's counting a show of hands here I'm a European and +1 to opposing software patents in Europe and +1 to the ASF supporting the demo. ditto and ditto. -Thom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
According to Danny Angus: If anyone's counting a show of hands here I'm a European and +1 to opposing software patents in Europe and +1 to the ASF supporting the demo. +1! ciao... -- Lars Eilebrecht - Beat me, whip me, make me use Windows! [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
* Thom May wrote: * Danny Angus ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : If anyone's counting a show of hands here I'm a European and +1 to opposing software patents in Europe and +1 to the ASF supporting the demo. ditto and ditto. +1. nd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: EU Software Patents
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Danny Angus wrote: If anyone's counting a show of hands here I'm a European and +1 to opposing software patents in Europe and +1 to the ASF supporting the demo. +1 for me -- Giacomo Pati Otego AG, Switzerland - http://www.otego.com Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
Danny Angus wrote: If anyone's counting a show of hands here I'm a European and +1 to opposing software patents in Europe and +1 to the ASF supporting the demo. Same for both here, if it wasn't clear enough already. :-) -- Gianugo Rabellino Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com (Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
--On Tuesday, August 26, 2003 19:18:38 +0200 Gianugo Rabellino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is an almost standard page at http://swpat.ffii.org/group/demo/demo.en.html, so it would just be a matter of downloading and setting an .htaccess rule. But I understand that it might be pretty late to organize all this with such a short notice. Too bad, it's quite an important issue here. If someone (since there seems to be a lot of people +1'ing it) can come up with a *suitable* page for us to post, if we get a go-ahead from the board, then I'll post it (at least on www). I'd like to see a page contain: - the ASF logo so that this is obvious this is our official position - a description of the situation and what we want to see happen - links to the 'main' protest site - a passthrough to the real index page (taking the entire site off-line seems a tad excessive, but a link at the bottom of the page to the 'real' index page is okay with me). I'm not as pessimistic that we can get approval in time. ;-) But, someone needs to take charge of creating the content. Any takers? -- justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: EU Software Patents
If anyone's counting a show of hands here I'm a European and +1 to opposing software patents in Europe and +1 to the ASF supporting the demo. +1 Sander - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
Justin Erenkrantz wrote: If someone (since there seems to be a lot of people +1'ing it) can come up with a *suitable* page for us to post, if we get a go-ahead from the board, then I'll post it (at least on www). I'd like to see a page contain: - the ASF logo so that this is obvious this is our official position - a description of the situation and what we want to see happen - links to the 'main' protest site - a passthrough to the real index page (taking the entire site off-line seems a tad excessive, but a link at the bottom of the page to the 'real' index page is okay with me). I'm not as pessimistic that we can get approval in time. ;-) But, someone needs to take charge of creating the content. Any takers? I'm willing to tackle this. The only real problem is content: I can make up a description of what's going on in Europe, but problem is coming up with a text that expresses the opinion of the ASF (what do we really want to see happen? I know for myself, I don't want this law to be approved, but is that an ASF position?). I'm not entitled to speak on the ASF name, but I can try to make up something objective for the board to approve. How can we go forward with it? Ciao, -- Gianugo Rabellino Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com (Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: EU Software Patents
On 26/08/2003, at 07:44, Danny Angus wrote: If anyone's counting a show of hands here I'm a European and +1 to opposing software patents in Europe and +1 to the ASF supporting the demo. d. +1 and +1! just FYI: the ISOC members are currently discussing the same issues but it's probably also too late for them to get something official out of the door. Given the fact that ISOC is backed by an enormous amount of big players (M$, IBM, HP, Cisco, ...) and also software patent holders (mostly IETF folks), I find it really surprising to see a big part of them against software patents... and finally another bit of thought food: Bruce Perens speaks on software patents... http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/08/07/1453252mode=threadtid=19 In any case, I'd like to advise everyone to state your opposition by just writing to your Representative/Member of EU Parliament: see http://wwwdb.europarl.eu.int/ep5/owa/ p_meps2.repartition?ilg=ENiorig=home for their mail and postal addresses. Cheers, Erik - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: EU Software Patents
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Danny Angus wrote: If anyone's counting a show of hands here I'm a European and +1 to opposing software patents in Europe and +1 to the ASF supporting the demo. Ditto here: Apache standing up against SW patents might show the industry they can't play nice with open source over here, while paying the lobbyists to defend patents with the gouvernment (which is what happens here in Brussels, EU 'capital'). /Steven - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: EU Software Patents
I am in favor of opposing software patents (they aren not working out great in the USA), but we should not disadvantage our users. If we post anything, as we did regarding the JCP, it should not prevent our users from easily using the site. People count on the ASF, and while we may want them to focus on a problem with great potential for damage, we do not not want to inspire ill-will because someone could not access something they needed from our site in a timely manner. This issue has been around for years. Until something spectacularly bad happens, there will not be a popular uprising, but I cynically do not believe that the protest will have a great effect. My prediction is that what will happen is that companies like Microsoft will use patents and protocol copyright (copyrighting the wire level protocols) to attack Open Source software, since they are gradually losing on most other fronts. Microsoft has already turned a Court mandate that they open their protocols into a licensing scheme to control a wide range of wire level protocols. The infrastructure must remain open and unencumbered, but it seems that the only solution seems to be employing the same weapon. The IETF and other standards bodies should take out copyright and patent protection on the open standards, and use those as leverage in the same way that the big companies use their patent portfolio. Perhaps Roy should have filed a patent on REST. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: EU Software Patents
+1, +1 and the main question remains why we (and I don't mean just the ASF but all of us that develop and/or work with OSS and free software) were collectively blind and deaf to this issue. This didn't surface just today. We simply had a blind spot for this. :-( Regards Henning On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 19:44, Danny Angus wrote: If anyone's counting a show of hands here I'm a European and +1 to opposing software patents in Europe and +1 to the ASF supporting the demo. d. -Original Message- From: Justin Erenkrantz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 August 2003 18:07 To: community@apache.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: EU Software Patents --On Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:09:14 +0100 Andrew Savory [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to propose that we close (ie swap the front page for a protest page) as many of the Apache web sites as possible. Not to belittle this protest, but we do a good job of bringing our own sites down ourselves (or UnitedLayer does). If we were to do this, IMHO, it'd be at the board's direction - no one else has the authority to do this. If you want to provide a page that we could replace it with, that may make it easier to receive approval. -- justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen -- Geschaeftsfuehrer INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH [EMAIL PROTECTED] Am Schwabachgrund 22 Fon.: 09131 / 50654-0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] D-91054 Buckenhof Fax.: 09131 / 50654-20 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: EU Software Patents
Is having the real home page one click or 60-seconds away for one day really something that bugs the Apache userbase a lot? No. I think what you did was fine in that regard, and have already commented on it. We are apparently still dealing with mail-lag. :-) I know that patents will be a huge issue for years to come. I predict that it will be really ugly. Fortunately, there are Open Source friendly companies like IBM, so with their patronage, Open Source can succeed. Should they turn face, ugly will be an understatement. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: EU Software Patents
I predict that it will be really ugly. Fortunately, there are Open Source friendly companies like IBM, so with their patronage, Open Source can succeed. Should they turn face, ugly will be an understatement. Agreed, but did you know: [that IBM is the worlds most prolific patenter] Yes. Hence the observation that the patrongage of companies like IBM would be essential. If patents are granted, the only way to combat them is with other key patents. It becomes a war to see whose portfolio is larger and has more keys that can be used to force someone else to let you use theirs. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
