CS: Misc-SA Website
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I admit my error - I plead fatigue, my brain was not working properly - the SA does indeed have a domain name, even if it doesn't currently lead to their website. In fact I regularly buy Gun Mart magazine and I've been following the various changes in the SA's internet situation (as given in that magazine) for some time. I point out the two domain names used so far (sagbni.org and sportsmans-association.org) and the variety of other non-domain name website addresses and email addresses. What I do myself is to register my domain name with a company which just forwards punters to wherever the website files are kept and doesn't supply ISP services or webspace. That way you can move your files wherever you like and you can change the web forwarding details online, immediately, for nothing. The SA has got that far. You don't have to keep your website files on your ISP's storage, which seems to be the SA's current mistake and the reason why their website is not currently accessible. Rather a lot of the cheapo ISPs don't seem to give good service, as Steve mentions. I repeat, I'm not impressed by the SA's performance on the internet. I think the internet is important. I think they could do better. I ask again - what else are they doing wrong? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-Any old brass?
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] You had teeth? Why, during the Great War the Germans reckoned 40% of the British Army should have been in sanitoriums because of malnutrition. Teeth? The Army chest X-rays showed NO SKELETON AT ALL with some of the men - on dissection they had a gelatinous gristle instead. Some men were so malnourished their walk was rubbery and they threw their arms around from the shoulders like TENTACLES and caught hold of things. I hope nobody thinks I'm making this up. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Chin Peng
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Would whoever keeps mentioning Chin Peng, the Communist Terrorist leader during the Malayan Emergency 1948-60 please contact me off-list. I've been jiggling a handful of 9mm cartridges and a Malayan one-cent coin (bronze, square with the corners rounded off!) and trying to remember some more but it's slow work. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Great War Shooting
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was remembering something told me from the Great War - they were firing tracer from a Lewis gun and watching the bullets hitting each other! Ammunition quality varied a bit in the Great War. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-One Organisation
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think the four main UK shooting shows take place in the Midlands because it's personally convenient for the people who run them and for the main firms in the business. I don't think it's good for shooting in the UK to keep them all, all the time, in the same limited geographical area. I don't see why shooting grounds are necessarily needed - they're not needed for the .22LR down-the-pipe shooting at shows, are they? I think some silenced shotguns could be available within the show for people to try out like they try out airguns, crossbows and .22LR rifles. I think that down-the-pipe shooting could also be managed with silenced deer rifles within the shows. Looking at the overall picture, I think there's a great deal of effort regularly devoted to the question "How can we exclude people from gun possession?" That's from individual clubs, from the type of shooting, from competitions, from being able to have a gun at all. The underlying psychology is "I want a gun, but I don't want anyone else to have a gun." It's a compliment to the effectiveness of firearms as weapons and a comment on our fundamental monkey nature. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Churchill and Pistols
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] It appears to have taken 10 years effort to get the Pistols Act 1903 onto the Statute book, so I wouldn't call it a minor matter, it was the thin end of the wedge - or one of them. I don't recall the Pistols Bill 1911 having been initially mentioned at all, the posting "Churchill was against pistols" was what I was responding to.
CS: Pol-One Organisation
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] What I'd like to do is to make it a lot easier to get a few shots at all kinds of guns at the four main annual shooting shows in the UK. Otherwise shooting anything but what you own tends to be difficult. I can't see why silenced shotguns couldn't be tried out at the main event and not miles away, for example. I think that would help a lot to broaden people's experience and hopefully from that they would be less inclined to backstab. I'm mystified why all four main UK gun shows HAVE to be in the Midlands - you'd think they'd have the sense to spread them up and down the country to London and Manchester at least. I'm also totally mystified why anything but game is being sold as food at the shows. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- Presumably it's because of the location of the convention or whatever in relation to where the shooting grounds are. I can't think of many places in the midlands where you can shoot all types of guns, Worcester Norton Gun Club and Minsterley Ranges is about it. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Churchill and Pistols
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] In Palmer's Index to The Times 1790-1905, a CD-ROM to accompany the Times microfilms at Manchester Central Reference Library, it gives the references to "Pistols Bill" (not a nickname, boringly!) as starting at 25 July 1893 and ending (with the passing of the Bill as an Act) on 5 August 1903. A ten-year effort. My uncle's comment was that there were forces in Parliament at the time trying to get enforcement of the law in the UK out of the hands of local magistrates and into the hands of the central government via the expansion of police forces. That was because the Prime Minister had extensive interests in mining and some of the local magistrates enforced the mining health and safety regulations and stopped the mine-owners engaging in thuggery when dealing with their employees. The idea of putting restrictions on pistols was to make people less able to defend themselves and thus to make them more dependent on the police forces and the central government. I'm unsure why you'd blame Churchill for this, he was born in 1874, which would make him 19 when the first anti-pistols efforts began. The real question is why is there any crime at all. The answer is that the police and government prey on us instead of working for us doing a reasonable job of social administration. Their repeatedly demonstrated incompetence is proclaimed as "proof" that more of their efforts are needed when the truth is they should be sacked for them. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- Okay, I'll say it again, Churchill was Home Secretary when the Pistols Bill 1911 was conceived, undoubtedly he had something to do with it. The Pistols Act 1903 was a very modest measure and neither Richard or I said Churchill was responsible for the first effort. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-Airguns
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Very few people have ever been killed with 12 foot-pound (and under) airguns and I don't think its therefore reasonable in the legal sense to say that they ARE lethal. If something doesn't go bang it's not a firearm, by definition, even though it might be included in various Firearms Acts. I've never (previously) heard it argued that 12 foot-pound airguns WERE firearms and I don't think saying that "they're really lethal firearms but we're being given a concession" is helpful, particularly at the present time. I don't think it's true, either. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- It is true, as I am sure Jonathan can point out to you at great length. Airguns are usually considered to be lethal barrelled weapons unless they are so weak they cannot cause a lethal injury under any circumstance, that's been the case for decades. The actual level is the point of conjecture. The Home Office use theoretical tests to arrive at a level of 1 ft/lb. My view is that so many people have been shot with airguns over the past century that the level should be set at the demonstrated level of lethality, i.e. 3 ft/lb - anything under that level is not a firearm. The Firearms Act 1920 created the legal situation that an airgun is a firearm, but created an exemption in Great Britain for air pistols under 6ft/lb of energy and air rifles under 12 ft/lb of energy from the certification requirement. However, since the 1920 Act airguns have always required firearm certificates in Ireland. Plenty of people have been killed since 1920 with 12 ft/lb air rifles, over the course of 80 years it's well into double figures, although I'm not aware of any fatality ever having been caused with an air pistol. Bearing in mind that few air pistols have a muzzle energy over 3.5 ft/lb. Another point though is that muzzle energy is a very poor method of determining lethality. The actual design of the projectile probably has more to do with it. The arguments for licensing airguns however are utterly potty, although it is possible to kill someone with great difficulty with an air rifle, the number of fatalities in the past decade can be counted on your fingers. The scale of the threat simply does not indicate a need for licensing, any more than it would indicate a need for licensing hammers, for example. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-One Organisation
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I feel that if even ONE other shooting organisation was to deliberately merge with the BASC it would promote useful changes to the BASC and the overall situation. Is anyone from any other organisation willing to write to their organisation proposing this and to share the letters they send and receive with us? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- I remember when the BFSS and BASC tried to merge and that never happened, I think the chances frankly of BASC wanting to merge with the NRA or anyone else or vice versa are nil. The only way to have one organisation is for BASC to promote themselves as an organisation promoting the interests of target shooters. Although I have to say the point made the other day about the CA was a good one. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Crime-Hamilton Remembered
-Forwarded Message- From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: , cybershooters From: Norman Bassett [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was looking through the Electronic Telegraph archive on http://www.telegraph.co.uk and found this: "Monday 18 March 1996: Quantities of computer software and photographs of half-dressed boys have been removed from Hamilton's groundfloor flat in Stirling, eight miles from the primary school where he carried out last Wednesday's killings. The possibility that Hamilton had an Internet link is also being investigated. Evidence recovered from Hamilton's flat led police to those questioned last week. Two of those interviewed about the suspected paedophile ring are known to have been in regular contact with Hamilton - with some calls lasting as long as 25 minutes - in the run-up to the primary school tragedy. The last call came a few hours before the massacre. Police are also believed to be investigating possible links to the homosexual community in Edinburgh, 40 miles from Dunblane. Hamilton was cautioned by Lothian police 18 months ago after being found in a compromising position with a man in the Scottish capital." Police investigations into Hamilton's background don't seem to have made much progress since then. And another bit of information (same source, today's date) on what the police are receiving salary for: "On his arrest in February 1999, Mulcahy who had denied his guilt in 1986, vomited in front of police but refused to speak. In court he denied the attacks. One unnamed victim spoke later of her anguish. She criticised the initial response of officers, but said procedures had greatly improved. "It took four attempts to report to police my attack by two men on Hampstead Heath in the early 1980s. No one took any notice of me until the fourth attempt when police finally took a witness statement." Now, however, attitudes were much better. "During the past two years police have given me support throughout with regular updates via phone calls and visits to my home. Women who have been subjected to such attacks should be made aware that the police and court process today is supportive, caring and understanding." If you ever wondered how people like Hamilton and Mulcahy got away with serious crimes for twenty-year careers, you should be getting the general idea by now... Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-One Organisation
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Guy Savage is quite right, not enough people are doing anything constructive. We all seem to have agreed after past discussion that ONE shooting organisation would be beneficial and the others are superfluous, divisive and damaging. I give it as my opinion that the BASC at 130,000 is the largest organisation and the one the rest need to merge with - I'm a BASC member myself for that reason - and its shortcomings need to be addressed from within and afterwards. I see SAGBNI as a "ginger group", an organisation that is active in campaigning and prods the others into action, and I approve of it for that, but it's never going to get up to 130,000 and shouldn't try. I remember how and why SAGBNI was formed, but if we have agreed that we need just ONE organisation we have to agree that SAGBNI will need to close down just as soon as the BASC can be pushed to do the same amount of marching etc. (There's an implication here that all the efforts spent on SAGBNI are subtracted from efforts spent on the BASC.) Clearly it would be better if other shooting organisations were to voluntarily merge with the BASC and in effect voluntarily wind themselves up. It would be a lot less beneficial if the rumps of other organisations lingered on for decades, so I don't advocate just leaving other organisations and joining the BASC, I advocate proposing to other organisations that they close down and shift membership and functions to the BASC - which includes starting up new branches within the BASC if necessary to cover black powder shooting etc. I think "BASC" is enough of a mouthful already and wouldn't support any add-ons to the title, incidentally. The "egos, empires and incomes" of other associations all have to bite the dust. Who on Cybershooters is willing to write to the management of other shooting organisations which they're members of and saying they'd like an Extraordinary General Meeting at which they propose the organisation merges formally with the BASC with the intention of putting all shooters in the UK into one organisation? Could we keep this on the list and see who's willing to do what, second what etc, and which shooting associations have and haven't yet been approached? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Serfs' Privileges Restored
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Alder Hey Hospital bodysnatching-by-degrees scandal reminds us that there are some extremely unsavoury things going on in our society not very far beneath the surface. I will be interested to see if anything that was being unofficially done with the body parts emerges. Either the Dunblane Massacre was a paedophile scandal, or it was a firearms scandal. I think there were a lot of people not wanting it to be a paedophile scandal - because they were and are paedophiles - and they got the result they wanted. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-Cullen Transcript
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was yesterday searching the Cullen Inquiry Transcript on the web but failed to find anything about McMurdo's police chauffeur/driver. Roughly, I'd say the Inquiry threw up a very large amount of not-particularly-indirect evidence that Hamilton was for 20 years running a paedophile operation in his boys' clubs and both the police and Stirling Council seem to have had enough complaints about him for him to be made a target for surveillance - but that never happened for some reason. Bearing in mind the number of Council-related paedophile scandals that have surfaced in the 4 years since the Dunblane Massacre it's clear Lord Cullen was just behaving "normally" for the period in denying paedophile activities by Hamilton and decrying the witnesses and evidence. I don't know why nobody but me seems to be taking an interest in re-examining the Transcript from which Cullen's Report was abbreviated, but for sure it's the basis on which handguns for sport shooting were banned in Great Britain, so if you want your pistols back, get the lead out and take an interest. Unless you've been visiting the reference libraries in Scotland where the Transcript resides in hard copy, NO, you haven't read it all before in the newspapers. After 4 years it still stinks. Check out the source document for yourself - it's linked (Scottish Office)to the end of the Contents page of the Cullen Report on: http://www.official-documents.co.uk/document/scottish/dunblane/dunblane.htm Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- I have been looking through it the last few days but I haven't found anything scintillating yet. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Revolutionary Britain
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] My thanks for the comments on Glasgow and "Red Clydeside" in 1926. I'm also remembering a report that King George V was assassinated with one shot in the left eye from a .303 at about 300 yards at Abergele, north Wales, in 1926 and a double was used in his place - known in the music hall songs celebrating the event as "The Man Who Wore The Beard" on account of George V's full and face-concealing beard. Anyone heard the same story? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-Guns for Self-defence
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've been recalling a lot of things about police activity in Manchester UK at the end of the Great War and one of the points that has come up is the transfer of mounted "Irish police thugs" to England in 1920 from their job of holding down Ireland to their new job of holding down England. I'm also recalling some shooting in major demonstrations in London at the end of 1918 following the return of troops to Britain complete with their weapons, having refused to be "posted to South Africa" for two years from France. We seem to have some major holes in our official version of Britain's history at the end of the Great War. Recollections relating to the British government's revisionist history, anyone? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- There are reports of people using firearms in riots both in the Blackwell Report and also a report from New Zealand around the same time. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-Scottish Public Enquiry Law
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] There's a lot more than just "protecting minors" involved. Cullen repeatedly said that no minors had been sexually assaulted by Hamilton - so why would they need this kind of "protection"? Why can't they just be identified as "child A", "child B"? I understand Hamilton's firearms certificate file is not available to the public, or the pathologists' report. Does anyone know where Hamilton's idea of alternating FMJ and hollowpoint ammo comes from? Is this commonly taught in the US gun-training schools? Is this taught in UK police gun-training? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- I don't think it has anything to do with that, would you want to be associated with a mass murderer? I do tend to agree they could just black out the names but presumably the circumstances related in the report would indicate who the children were. I was told specifically at the time, during the public inquiry as I recall, even before Cullen did it that the report would not be made public because of concerns about the children in Hughes' report. A lot of people asked about it including a lot of people from the media when the quotes from Det. Sgt. Hughes report were circulated and that's what we were told. Hamilton didn't only use FMJ and JHP, he also used semi-wadcutters as I recall. I have no idea why as it would be an invitation to the gun to jam (especially a stock Hi-Power). Perhaps he thought mixing the ammunition would produce at least some casualties given all the conflicting information in gun magazines. Who knows. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-Scottish Public Inquiry Law
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Come to think of it, why are we being denied access to some parts of the evidence by Lord Cullen? I can't remember any evidence at English Public Enquiries being kept back in this way, can anyone else assist my recollection on this? Is this to do with Scottish legal differences from English law? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- The inquiry was required under Scottish law, this is why there wasn't one after Dunblane. I'm not sure of the exact power Cullen had to require some of the evidence to have a closure order placed on viewing it. There are powers in the law relating to legal proceedings and the identification of minors. I was told that the 100-year closure had been placed on Det. Hughes' report because he named minors in it. My personal view is that Cullen did it so that no-one could read about who was taken in by Hamilton to save them from being embarrassed and humiliated. In 100 years no-one will care, of course. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-Dunblane transcript -internet address
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The news forwarded below this should be of interest. I'm in Edinburgh at the moment, just having visited the National Library of Scotland. The Transcript on paper is about fourteen inches thick, but just printed on one side of the sheets, with big margins and gaps between questions and answers. I think the real evidence to note is Grace Jones Ogilvie's evidence on Day Three of the Inquiry (p.274 and 275) that a police car was outside Hamilton's house once or twice a month. I've mentioned it before. There doesn't seem to be anything in the Transcript which says which policeman/men it was or explains what was going on. I'm pursuing the matter. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mr Bassett I promised to let you have details of the address for the Dunblane Inquiry transcripts. They can be found at: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/library3/justice/dunblane/dunblane-00.asp I hope this is helpful Yours sincerely, Trevor Lodge Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-US Right-To-Carry Laws
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This first bit is really directed at ET: - would you agree that the US right-to-carry laws are in fact providing the US State and Federal governments with a list of those most likely to use ANY arms at all to defend themselves with against ANYONE - which includes for example the US government? It's perfectly possible to write a law in the reverse form and say it's an offence to carry a pistol if you have any of a list of such-and-such criminal convictions, an extent of so much of such-and-such drugs in your body, if you have a history of such-and-such mental illness and that it's an offence if you don't have a gun-safe of such-and-such a build standard in your home to keep guns, ammo etc in. Similarly-phrased laws could be used to make it an offence to keep guns insecurely at home, insecurely in your car, cocked on their belt etc. That's the US situation. But when we look at the UK situation it's the same - what the governments are doing in both cases is intended among other things to provide them with LISTS of people with guns and the skill and willingness to use them, LISTS of guns and the LOCATIONS of both. Plus lots of excuses for taking them off you. They have lists of ex-service people already, of course. Firearms laws don't NEED to be processes which identify individuals, but they are even when they're "merely a revenue-raising measure". What governments are really doing is listing potentially capable enemies, "Security Risks", isn't it? Any comments on this? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- This has been one of the arguments GOA have used against such laws - however, in most States when you have a carry permit they don't actually know what guns you possess. In addition, so many people have permits that I think it would be quite hard to send around the National Guard to disarm them all or to use it as some sort of list of possible subversives. You have to have an FBI fingerprint check when you apply for a permit, so that does put you into their computer. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Dunblane Inquiry transcripts
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good news as below: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mr Bassett You will wish to know that we are aiming to put the transcripts on the internet on 14 January. I shall let you know the address when it is available. Trevor Lodge Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-The Army Lads
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Another post-Great War memory. My mother told me her father had an arms cupboard under the stairs and kept the firing pins for a couple of Lee-Enfields, a Lewis Gun and a Vickers MG in a metal-lined wallet in his breast pocket. There was a loaded revolver under the sink for household defence. My grandfather was a section leader in the local "Army Lads" - retired regular soldiers who "kept an eye on things" in their part of post-Great War Manchester. This organisation seems to have existed all over the UK and to have been created when the men came home with their guns from the Great War - I was wondering if anyone had any memories of it? My grandfather came home in a wheelbarrow one day in 1926 looking lumpy around the body under his clothes and being wheeled along by two mates pretending to be drunk. He'd got metal in his leg from a kind of 6-shot trap-gun and three bullet wounds in his stomach from a spray from a Lewis Gun he'd received while leading a group of 14 Army Lads investigating a small civilian aerodrome in the Midlands. The allegation had been made to the Army Lads that there was a correlation between the current influenza epidemic and the flights of aeroplanes over towns. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Gun Powders - low loads
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] It didn't seem to me that Walter's experience with his fully-annealed rifle cartridge case was JUST the result of the softness of the metal. Sounds like a lot more powder than should have been in the case. Similarly for his 9mm Parabellum reloads - Sten ammo powder loading would be too hot for a pistol in the first place. The two examples just seem to be indications that care is essential when reloading cartridges and that when in any doubt you should start off with a light load. ET's "inert" filling experiments are interesting but it's clear that you have to be careful with extras in cartridge cases in case they actually detonate or aid detonation. I was interested to hear about the SKS ammo with the "double twisted pipe-cleaner" propellant rod in it. I've mentioned before the German WW2 MG42 ammo and 9mm Parabellum ammo with a rod of propellant in it with a star-shaped central chamber. I was remembering that this was got into the bottle-necked rifle cases by compressing a kind of "plastic spring" moulding of propellant to get it through the neck. It then expanded to fit the inside of the case. I also seem to recall Berdan-style cases with up to six holes from the primer pocket into the inside of the case - has anyone come across such things? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Self-defence convention
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The meetings rooms over pubs are always cheap and sometimes free if your visitors buy drinks. Once you can fill a small venue, you can try for a larger one and gather expertise. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-King's African Rifles
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] My father served with the KARs in East Africa at the start of WW2 and about 200 KARs served with my uncle Jock's regiment and my father in North Africa and up through Italy into Germany and were "topped-up" with fresh KARs when necessary. Ever heard this song: "Funga safari Funga safari Oom riawa na Oom riawa na, Kapitini Oom ri Ah Kay Ah" (We're going on safari We're going on safari We'll know where we're going when we get there, says the Captain We are the KAR) My maternal grandfather was in the Boer War and the Great War and my mother had some interesting memories of him. She was telling me about playing "Soldiers and Brave Nurses" as a child after the Great War. The boys had father-made rifles (with door bolts) painted the correct khaki colour and the girls had rectangles of white cloth tied to their foreheads with bits of string. The girls crawled across to "wounded soldiers" in no-mans-land with bits of string held between their teeth in imitation of the nurses doing the same with ropes to drag wounded soldiers back with. Her father came home and saw this one day with a Ho, Ho, Ho! and commented that the nurses wore grey uniforms about the same colour as the Germans did and you had to be careful about who you shot in no-mans-land. Mothers weren't so keen on this game as the girls were crawling round in the dust and the dogshit full-length with their dresses. The girls liked the game because they didn't usually get the chance to be Brave - they usually got Captured, tied up and Rescued. She also recalled him standing on the corner with his rifle while police bullets from Lewis and Vickers guns were cracking and whining along the street - that was Ardwick just east of the centre of Manchester and just after the Great War. Lest we forget. If any one of you digs in your memory you'll come up with gems - do it. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Naval Guns
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I understand that the naval architect of the Admiral Hipper (notice the same initials as Hitler) was a Swede, had never designed a warship before and got the contract with rather a lot of help from the sexual prowess of his sister exerted upon various German naval officers! Hitler was furious about the Admiral Hipper's demonstrated initial inability to fire flat sideways (yes, the dishes in the deck were ONLY retrofitted to enable the guns to depress far enough) but eventually saw the funny side of it about the lady concerned. I also understand that the Admiral Hipper bashed the breakwater on her initial voyage and was ignominously towed back into harbour for repairs. AH had the captain skinned and the skin put up on the Naval HQ wall to encourage the others. The official tale was that the Hipper had hit "an uncharted rock". It does show that Hitler had good advice from Goebbels on the psychology involved in naming ships etc after yourself - "Don't!". And took it, of course, or close enough. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Field-Gun Powder - Rook Rifles
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This from my memory: Rook rifle cartridges were reloaded for economy. They used bottlenecked cartridges because .22LR cases were very small to handle and repriming meant a very limited case life anyway, even being careful not to get the old firing pin mark/s under the firing pin on subsequent occasions. Maybe you'd manage four or five reuses of a .22LR case. So .22Whatever bottlenecked cartridges were used. Berdan primer pockets were more desirable because the primers were simpler and easier to reload. If you cast lead bullets you run the risk of accumulating lead poisoning, so you used tin bullets. This had a number of advantages - less fouling of barrels, and they didn't dull with weathering, for example, so you could spot them in the surface of newly-ploughed fields around the rook woods by their brightness. (I'm also remembering very early US metal detectors which could discriminate between different metals - 1932?) You had a choice of bullet shapes - pointed bullets meant two-part moulds and extra work. Flat-tipped or hollow-pointed bullets (which also helped keep the overshoot down) could be cast in a one-piece mould with an ejector pin in it to push out the bullet. For powder you bought a waxed cloth 4lb or 5lb bag of black powder from your friendly local quarryman or mine explosives man. This was just Sodium Nitrate and Carbon in dust form, not corned into grains. The first rule of safety with the powder was to "break bulk" and decant the powder into smaller vessels. Quink Ink and Stevens Ink bottles were highly dangerous particularly because of the thick glass bases to the bottles. A good alternative was to turn ping-pong balls into containers by putting a hot (non-electrical) soldering iron with a conical tip against the top of a ball and rotating it to produce a neat round hole. You could close the hole with either a cork, bung of cloth etc. You could provide the container with a steady base by putting a lump of putty underneath. You stopped the putty sticking to the bench by rubbing it in any kind of dust at all. You got the primers out with a 3mm wood-chisel, reshaped them by hammering the dent out with a carefully ground-flat and smoothed nail. Yes, you could re-anneal them. You wet matchhead composition (the same way the heads are put on matches in the first place) and you put a blob of the wet composition into the primer and spread it around - just like commercial primer makers do with their proprietory mix. Then you dried the primer out on a mildly-heated surface or in a low-bake oven or substitute for one. You cleaned out the ignition holes in the Berdan case's base with the jet-pricker from a pressure (Primus) stove, put the standard loading of powder into the cartridge and filled the cartridge to the top with "leaf-mould". "Leaf-mould" was clean, dried autumn leaves (dried further if necessary so the powder wouldn't get damp) which you reduced to tea-leaf consistency by running it through a meat grinder set to the finest holes. The leaf-mould was to stop the powder a. settling into two separate chemicals when vibrated and b. moving away from the jets of fire from the primer holes upon ignition. You put the bullet into the case. The primer went in last so you didn't have accidents. You put the cartridge into a copper tube set vertically in the bench top with a cartridge-holder in the top of it. You pushed the primer home with something other than your fingers. The "leaf-mould" caused a bit of a flash at the muzzle when the gun was fired (its function was almost the same as a shotgun wad) but the gun ended up with a clean bore. I'm also remembering that the most important thing about the tin/tin alloy you used - or lead if you wanted to use it - was a hardness tester. You used to be able to get a cheaper version of the Brinnel tester which used a square-cut quartz or agate pyramid. The alternative was a set of "Moh's Scale" scratchers. Moh's Scale is a primitive hardness series system where Talc is 1 and Diamond is 10. The scratchers were made of special glass points in wooden handles for lead, tin and cartridge brass hardness testing and they'd scratch some hardnesses of metal (which they were marked for) and not others. This is cartridge reloading - for Rook Rifles - as it used to be before and after the Great War. Anyone got any memories to match or complement these? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Naval Guns
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Firing flat: no, I wasn't talking about modifications to the bows. By "dished" I mean a retro-fitted concave area in the main deck to allow the gun barrels to get down flat when firing sideways where the original design hadn't allowed that. Plunging fire: logically if you wanted to avoid being hit on your thin main deck plates by plunging fire you'd get in close so the enemy fire would go across/over you. And if you wanted to make your fire plunge you'd set your guns at high elevation and decrease your powder charges. Barrel construction: I believe heat shrunk tubes were set over the breech area and the wire-winding was over the rest of the barrel. I've seen photos of such guns being cut up with the wire-winding sticking out after a gas torch cut down the length of the barrel. The benefit of such heat-shrunk tubes on big guns was that cracking was progressive and not immediately disastrous. I'd imagine that aircraft carriers were as complex as battleships in their construction. It's an interesting subject! Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Gun Powders
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] In answer to ET - You can put together the components of black powder as a fine dust - ie without forming them into various sizes of grains, but a.they tend to layer themselves by density when shaken and hence don't stay intimately mixed as required for best combustion b. you lose the advantage of having different grain sizes, which is that smaller grains go off with more of a fizz, making them good for the touch-hole powder and fuses and rockets, and bigger grains go off faster, making them better for the main propellant charge in a gun or bomb. You can top-up the cartridge case with something like tissue paper which stops the powder being shaken around, of course. I presume that you COULD "corn" (ie make into granules of the size you wish) any kind of a mixture at all - I'm told that glue is a good material to bind powder into grains with - not overdone, of course. The basic gun powder situation appears to be that any "fuel" and any material that will combine with it can be used in a confined space to produce large volumes of gas and push out a missile. I understand you can use a single drop of petrol(gasoline) in a big enough cartridge case, for example. The tube doesn't need to be metal, the powder doesn't need to have ANY of the component chemicals of black powder in it and the missile doesn't have to be made of metal either. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Police Corruption Website
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi! The UK Police Corruption Website has relocated offshore and is now at: http://www.policecorruption.org Looks interesting. I think IG would meet his Waterloo there... Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Mick North and others
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Neurotic" used to be the psychotherapeutic term for people we'd today call "traumatised" - that clearly includes Mick North and less clearly includes Anne Pearston and Sean Connery, both of whom went off the deep end emotionally. Gill Marshall-Andrews of GCN looks more like a political opportunist supporting her MP husband's career to me, but there may be more behind her interest, too. I suspect anti-foxhunting Michael Foster MP fits in this category - probably he's witnessed some animal being torn to bits by foxhounds when he was a child. Professional therapy or some hours of careful listening by someone with compassion is what they need - the journalists' rent-a-quote stuff is not doing them any good at all. The first thing is to get them to recognise they have a problem. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- My view is that GMA is just a liberal windbag who has siezed on this issue. The fact that she still goes on and on about it when her credibility has been totally destroyed because of the tiny membership of the GCN is pretty strong evidence of it. Can't wait to see what she comes out with in the next FCC report. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Police Corruption - Correction
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] A CORRECTION to my last posting. The Peace of Brest-Litovsk was signed on 3 March 1918, not in 1917 as I stated. The peace negotiations started after the Bolshevik Revolution of 17 November 1917 (it's called the "October" Revolution because that was the Russian-style date). You can look at the actual thing and associated documents on: http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/forrel/1918rv1/blmenu.htm It's interesting that the Blackwell Report (available on cybershooters.org) which was the precursor to the 1920 Firearms Act, was originally commissioned on 27 February 1918, surely in full knowledge of the general progress of the war and of the Brest-Litovsk peace negotiations' possible impact on it, and delivered on 15 November 1918. There are FACTS available from which to argue and they are accessible with a little trouble taken. I think the general exchange of opinions on police corruption is healthy, but not necessarily getting us anywhere because it's more of an argument than a factually-supported debate. To comprehend the full and comprehensive horror of the situation requires a list of newspaper and government reports on the various incidents involved. IG is fighting his corner doggedly, but I don't think there's a great deal to support some of his contentions g! and I think the history of the police force also resembles a pit of snakes covered with a heaving blanket. When you think about it, police corruption is a sub-set of a more general British government corruption. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Police Corruption
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is from IG to me privately and posted here with his permission: "NB: The Great War's history IS available, but not very easily. Part of it is the UK police force's work as government bully-boys strike-breaking from mid-1916 to the end of the Great War. IG: Yes, and the result was the Police strike of 1919, after false promises by the government about pay and pensions went unmet. This in turn led to the creation by statute of the Police Federation which exists today under the same rules as prevailed then. Then there was the 70's and 80's and 90's where the Police were used as strike breakers. 1977.Firemans strike. Resulted in the Edmund Davies enquiry. Huge pay rise to stop officers claiming income support, etc. 1984.Miners strike. Resulted in better conditions of service. 1990's...Prison officers and ambulance strikes. Resulted in a kick in the gonads in the Sheehey report, the withdrawal of rent allowance and the introduction of performance related pay. (not yet implemented, but on the way) Worsened conditions of service, no allowances, administrative dismissal, reduction of the burden of proof at discipline hearings, no access to industrial or employment tribunals, half pay if on the sick for 6 months, no pay if over 12 months, never mind why, but they wont pension and its a discipline offence to have 2 incomes..etc etc. SO...the cynic would say that successive governments have used the police to achieve their objectives and have now abandoned us as worthless." NB: Police corruption is a part of a more general political corruption and that needs to be borne in mind when examining the political side of police activities. I think that a simple LIST of what's being complained about and what incidents and government decisions have led us to today's situation would be very helpful. We tend to do a lot of referring to incidents like the Stephen Waldorf "yellow mini" shooting without a clear idea of what was involved. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-One Organisation
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] IG has a point about shooters arguing among themselves (though it would just be an internal debate if they were all in the ONE organisation) - I notice for example that you've made some comments about supporting age limits which you've not gone into. Could you explain how your views on this agree with or differ from the BASC's argument about young shooters which is currently being expressed on behalf of 130,000 BASC members (of whom I am one)? We don't seem to have had a bash at the "One Organisation" line recently and it clearly needs some pursuing. Could I say at this point that I think that members of other shooting organisations should be proposing formally that their organisation submerge itself into the BASC (as a new internal branch if necessary). A simple migration of some of the membership would leave troublesome rump organisations whereas formal submergence would avoid that problem. I regard "affiliation" as worthless, personally. And you can't reasonably keep adding bits to association titles - like "British Association for Shooting and Conservation and Black Powder Shooting and ", so some ego-empire-and-income damage is implied here. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- As far as I'm concerned everyone should join BASC. Yes, they're not perfect, yes, people moan about them sometimes, but if everyone has joined at least we have solved one problem, i.e. we have one organsation. After that we can start worrying about leadership and so forth. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Police Corruption
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The last count the London Evening Standard did there were an estimated 300 murderers walking the streets of London who'd never been convicted. You can estimate the relative rates of conviction for other crimes. The London police are to that extent ineffective and you can reasonably estimate the same situation exists around the country. Various Cybershooters have pointed out the very many cases of police corruption reported in the media. IG appears to be behaving in a way similar to the tobacco companies - looking at the evidence and flatly denying its existence. The tobacco companies deny reality for financial reasons and so do the police. The total number of demented mass-murderers with firearms in the UK in the past century is TWO. Ryan should have been stopped by the police after his first murder and wasn't. Hamilton appears to have been an active paedophile for over 20 years - that means he was a serial rapist of little boys, it's not just a personal preference - and the police certainly didn't stop him. IG's making a career of estimating people's "dangerousness" with firearms is clearly an antisocial waste of public money. The concept is an invention of the police force for the purposes of ensuring continued well-paid employment. What actually kills and harms people and hence can reasonably be said to be dangerous is listed in the Stationery Office's publication giving annual deaths by cause and being deliberately killed with a gun by someone else is a very long way down the list. IG should face the fact that he's being personally dishonest in his arguments and that the UK police force are ineffective and generally corrupt in a number of ways and that the "there are always a few rotten apples in a large organisation like the police" line of argument is NONSENSE. Their present influence in our society is pernicious and things need changing. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- Just one correction, there have been a lot of other mass murderers this century who used firearms in this country, they just haven't gotten the press of Ryan and Hamilton. One of them was Barry Williams who was briefly a member of my club (until he was turfed out). He shot dead five people and was committed under the Mental Health Act for about 22 years afterwards. There was another nutter who stole his father's shotgun and went on a rampage shooting 17 people in 1990 in Monkseaton, he only managed to kill one though. He is currently committed to a secure hospital. Also there was another nutter who shot dead his family (I think four or five of them) in 1969 with an SLR (he had an FAC for). He was also committed under the Mental Health Act until about 1993. When he got out he was okay for awhile but someone found out about his past and he got depressed, borrowed a neighbour's shotgun and committed suicide. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
Misc-Artists Rifles
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] On http://www.abebooks.com I had several "hits" for "artists rifles" in the title field. Steep but available. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Police Corruption
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was delighted to read IG's reply to my posting. I had feared my informant was so accurate that NOBODY disputed the assertion in any way at all. I would not like to comment on the assertion that a lot of shooters have illegal firearms, nor the assertion that the UK police are the occupational group most likely to possess illegal firearms for the purpose of protecting themselves against the personal malice of the criminals they are paid to pursue. The matter of fraudulent police clear-up rates for crimes like burglary has been extensively covered in the national press and I don't see how IG can deny that every member of the police is aware of what's going on and presumably can live with it or we'd have police demonstrations in Wembley Stadium protesting about it. Shooters are commonly ex-servicemen and have in fact serially killed people in the course of their duties. The expression "all X should be shot" is an extremely common expression of a political viewpoint which most of the people expressing it mean quite literally. People are entitled to express their political opinions. The situation of UK police corruption deriving from the expanding drugs market in the UK and mirroring what has happened in the US is something I would have thought was fully accepted. As for insanity, I personally consider it insane that policemen are being put on the street without sidearms to protect themselves with and that they are not expected, as they are elsewhere, to go armed at all times in uniform or not. I consider it insane that our government deny law-abiding people the right to carry sidearms for their personal protection. I consider it insane that our elected government deny the people the possibility of executing criminals on the thin ground that the police have in the past accused innocent people and got them hanged. I consider it absolutely beyond question that the government and their agents the police have a vested interest in preserving a certain level of crime in our society, against the interests of the majority of the citizenry, and that they deny honest people guns for self-defence in pursuit of their anti-social "hidden agenda". Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Armistice Day
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] EJ hits the nail on the head. My uncle recalled one occasion he witnessed on which fifteen drowned British soldiers' bodies were fished with an impromptu boathook out of one shellhole filled with mud. That was to prove a point. Usually they didn't bother. My uncle recalled one occasion on which a regiment, ordered to the spot the day previously, was ordered to charge across a quagmire and the Germans, who'd been deep shelling (sensitive noses and a 2-second delay fuse) the muck to stir it all up and "stabilise" the front, stopped shooting and the officers were observed shaking their heads in disbelief at the folly of it. I think the sheer density of the bodies still under the earth around Ypres would horrify people. Ypres is very close to the Channel coast and would be an excellent place to take schoolchildren on Great War archaeology expeditions to learn about war and government. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Armistice Day
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] My uncle was involved as a Lieutenant in the Great War and told me that after the war it was suggested that a statue of a giant rat should be erected in Whitehall instead of the Cenotaph, since that was how so many soldiers ended up - blown to pieces and the pieces eaten by rats. It was suggested that the idea might not be popular because of the proximity of the Prime Minister's residence and an association that might be formed in the public's mind between the two. Also it's statistically probable that the remains of the "unknown soldier" under the Cenotaph are of a Frenchman - and we are now at the stage where a DNA test might show the probabilities of that. It seems strange to me that all the intoning of fragments of poetry goes on annually at this time where effort would be a lot more usefully spent exhuming the intact and identifiable remains of the hundreds of thousands of men who drowned in the mud at Passchendaele and giving them a long-overdue and thought-provoking burial. The creation of a shiny new graveyard with ten thousand bodies in it every year for a few decades might achieve rather a lot more than the present arrangements. Any comments from anyone? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Underground Newspapers
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anybody know anything about UK underground (that means illegal in the UK, something different in the US) newspapers? I'm following up reports of such papers in 1917 giving true casualty figures from the Great War. Also in September 1939-May 1940 giving information on military scandals and true naval losses. I'm also interested in reports of ITMA's early broadcasts - Sept 1939-February 1940 - including military scandals as uncensored extras woven into the humour. Anybody remember anything? The sale of Great War Mills bombs to the Italians for their much-condemned Abyssinian campaign? The destruction of 150,000 Lewis guns 3 months before the outbreak of WW2? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Range Regulations
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was much impressed about 5 years back with a .22LR sideshow at the Birmingham shooting show in the National Exhibition Centre there. The shooting was down three 12" diameter steel pipes at lit targets on target holders. The .22LR rifles were a pump, a semi-automatic and a lever-action. The man running the thing said the bullet traps were circular things rather like snail shells that the bullets ricochetted around inside until they stopped - also he said it was the last touring .22LR sideshow in the UK to his knowledge. It strikes me that "down the pipe" shooting must be one of the most economical range-construction methods. You could shoot under your back garden from your cellar or a specially-constructed pit under a trapdoor. On a larger scale you'd have no problems at all with backstops and little with noise. Multiple-pipe setups could be constructed to suit for clubs. Has anybody got any experience of similar "ranges"? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- There are pubs that have setups like this, we refurbed a pub in the middle of Birmingham that appeared to have had a range like this at one point. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-TV reporting
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was accidentally looking at a horse race yesterday and they showed it forshortened from up the course instead of from the side. You had no idea what was in the lead. I've never seen/heard anything on TV about horse equipment, why some horses have to be pushed into the starting stalls etc. Neither the betting public nor the TV companies could care less. I think the general standard of TV reporting - not just sports reporting - is poor, but most people don't have sufficient understanding of what's going on to notice it. In my opinion the right way forward for shooting on TV is, indeed, to get someone who knows what they're talking about to commentate and to keep on urging the editing of recordings to show the important bits, bearing in mind shooting's now - it wasn't always - a minority sport. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Anne Pearston
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I get the feeling that you won against Tony Hill because he wasn't there to talk about bans generally and hadn't done any thinking about it. All laws are "bans". How effective are they generally and in particular, and should we abandon them because they don't work 100%? Aren't the Firearms Acts "bans"? The current debate is not about "bans" as such, it's about what should and shouldn't be banned and why. Anne Pearston is successful as a campaigner because she's available on the phone when a journalist needs a quote in a hurry and people know her by reputation. She keeps saying things because she's emotionally motivated. Accessibility is professional campaigning and reputation is the result of doing it regularly. You might care to compare the most famous pro-shooting campaigner, erm? No, I don't know a famous pro-shooting campaigner either. Whose damn fault is that with about 15 shooting associations? On the subject of noise, a shot or two fired at game might be regarded as normal country noise but I don't think shooting at clays all day can be. I foresee shotguns being fitted with silencers, like motor vehicles. Regards Norman Bassett -- Well, he was certainly there to talk about banning handguns, and it's perfectly valid to draw a comparison with other bans. The studio staff seemed to think I had won the argument at that point. We do need to get more shooting reps in the laptops of journalists, but I've found that they don't like the ones we put forward, because we tell the truth and it ruins their story. You see the truth that there is no real problem with people owning guns is rather dull, and they want an exciting story to wind up the viewers with. That's why Anne Pearston and co. get more press, they're better s--- stirrers and sell more papers. I've spoken to several journalists over the years, from all the major papers and Channel 4 and the BBC, and as soon as you tell them what the truth actually is they fall into a coma and at best you stop them from running the story. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Sidearms 1940
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I discovered this item in the Daily Telegraph (microfilm in the local reference library) for May 28 1940 p. 5: "Revolvers May Be Carried: The War Office has given permission to officers on leave and on duties at home to carry their revolvers as part of their dress equipment. Many officers have taken advantage of this concession. The reason for it is understood to be that in the war of movement now taking place officers preferred to carry their revolvers with them, since there were few places where they could be safely left when temporarily free of duty." What was happening at the time was that troops had returned home from the Norwegian withdrawal on 2 May, 28 May was about halfway through Operation Dynamo so troops were coming back from Dunkerque, and Winston Churchill had just become Prime Minister on 20 May 1940. I recall my uncle's comment that officers tired from the fighting overseas were being stripped of their sidearms at the British ports by MPs and Customs Officers carrying sidearms - who had of course NOT just been risking their necks for their country. It smacked - or rather stank - of the kind of government they were supposed to be fighting against. Churchill was a regular pistol-carrier himself and saw no reason why everyone shouldn't do it. Does anyone know what part of all the pistols that the British government issued during WW2 was accounted for at the end of WW2? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-WW2 Dumped Guns
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Steve The source for the information on American-donated guns being dumped in the sea is John Frazer of the US NRA - it was detailed in an article in their magazine which he contributed to Cybershooters some time back and I've spoken to him about since. In 1940 a German invasion was improbable since the Royal Navy was five times the size of the German and during the German Norwegian campaign - which preceded the German campaign in Holland, Belgium and France by about a month - about a third of the German navy was sunk in the course of securing Germany's northern front and vital iron ore supplies. Churchill's view was that as all the criminals were in the Army, all the police should be as well. Ex-policemen 55-60 were apparently welcome to volunteer for police duty. I understand that at one time the UK police were attempting to get it made a reserved occupation. Churchill also said some unkind things about the dockers which I threaten to tell you about unless someone gives me some help with what Kaiser Wilhelm said during the Great War about the UK NRA! Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- Yes, I dimly remember this, John said that the guns were dumped after the war then someone sent me an article saying they were dumped during the war, as I remember it, I think I can remember sending it to John. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Scottish Secretary of State
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I sent this a week ago: "Monday 4 September 2000 For the Attention of the Secretary of State for Scotland Dear Dr Reid Ref: Investigation of Thomas Hamilton's Activities I am most concerned that there does not appear to have been any very successful investigation into the activities of Thomas Hamilton, the perpetrator of the Dunblane Massacre in 1996. This appears to have been the result of the then-Conservative government's desire to keep a lid on things. The government's political complexion has changed and it seems a good opportunity to investigate Hamilton's activities further. In particular, might it not be easily and usefully possible to investigate his garden at his former home in Stirling by the use of ground radar to look for possible buried human remains, the use of metal detectors to look for possible firearms, ammunition or components thereof, and the use of microscopic examination of the soil to look for possible evidence of wrongdoing. This could be regarded if necessary as a police training exercise, but it would need to be properly done. I am also very much of the opinion that making the Dunblane Inquiry Transcript and written submissions available to the public on the internet would be beneficial. I look forward to your response." We already have the Transcript coming onto the net as I was informed later in the week. I am of course hoping for some icing on the cake, but I can see no reason not to ask. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Dunblane Inquiry Transcript
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good news! "5 September 2000 Dear Mr Bassett DUNBLANE PUBLIC ENQUIRY - 1996 - TRANSCRIPTS I refer to previous communications regarding the above and am pleased to advise you that disks containing the transcripts of the evidence led at the above have been located and will, in due course, be placed on the Internet at a location linked to the website address of the Report of the enquiry. I hope the above is of assistance. Yours sincerely Glynis McKeand Sheriff Clerk" (Stirling) I wrote to both BASC and SAGBNI requesting their help with this matter and do not know at the moment to what degree they assisted. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- That is a good piece of lobbying Norman! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Disarming the British
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The connection people make between the October 1917 Russian Revolution and the Blackwell Report is not the full story. The fuller story is that the Czar and his Government's disregard for the 2 million Russian casualties on the Eastern Front during the Great European War was the trigger for the October 1917 Russian Revolution. The British government's anxieties in 1917 came from the response of the British Army and people to the casualties of 1917 on the Western Front. Specifically, at the time the Blackwell Report was commissioned the army and people were outraged about HOW the casualties had been produced - ie by Haigh's deliberate orders. It's the background to Haigh's orders in 1917 which is even more interesting. According to Winston Churchill in his government-suppressed book 'The Way of the World' the TWO backgrounds to the high war casualties were: a. King George V's 1917 orders to Haigh to cause high casualties to lessen pressure on the Germans on the Western Front b. the British government's refusal to consider anything but unconditional surrender by the Germans, which was the result of the Cabinet, senior military and senior Civil Service desire to keep receiving bribes from munitions contracts. After Churchill's book came out - about 1920 - the public's reaction to the casualties - which had originally been directed against Haigh and Lloyd George - was more accurately informed. In the years between 1917 and now, the truth has become a lot more clouded than it was at the time. There's no doubt that getting back copies of Hansard on the web would go a long way towards opening recent British history up. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- There is certainly more to it than just the revolution - huge labour strikes, the Easter Uprising etc. all contributed to the paranoia that became the Firearms Act 1920. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-BSSC proposal
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Steve I see in September's Gun Mart the SAGBNI report of the latest BSSC meeting on 6 July saying they'd proposed the preparation of a "BSSC Firearms Act" to counter the HAC report and "tidy things up". I was thinking that to propose incorporating a self-defence provision into the BSSC Firearms Act would be very sensible. It's law in Northern Ireland, so why not here? It would get the Common Law back into firearms legislation and what could be more reasonable and desirable than that? Also I was thinking some proposals for target-shooting training as part of secondary education would be a good idea. Any thoughts from anyone on these ideas? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- I've tried doing this myself in the past, it's tricky to do because you entrench on other laws that you may not know about. The best idea is to come up with comprehensive recommendations, then critique the draftsman afterwards. The law in Northern Ireland simply says that they must have a "good reason" like it does here, there is nothing in law here stopping a firearm certificate being issued for personal protection, only Home Office policy. I've always thought under judicial review it would be possible at a minimum to get that policy overturned to the extent that people under threat from terrorists would be able to get FACs for personal protection in GB as well. I think it was you who had the letter from Ken Maginnis, Home Affairs spokesman for the UUP, and undoubtedly a major terrorist target, in which he said he had applied to the Home Office and been turned down, so he had to leave his pistol in Northern Ireland! Barmy. In fact I know from the RUC that there are two residents of GB that have FACs for personal protection in NI, because FACs can be issued to non-residents under the Firearms (Northern Ireland) Order 1981. So they can carry a pistol in one part of the country but not the bit where they live! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Ricochets
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Steve! Does greasing a target metal plate increase the angle that a bullet can be fired from and still riccochet? Say from 20 degrees to 40 degrees? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- Dunno, never felt the need! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Cullen Inquiry Transcripts
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I spoke on the phone this morning at 9.45am to Mrs McKeand, Sheriff Clerk at Stirling (who was Lord Cullen's clerk for the Dunblane enquiry). She tells me she received my letter to the Scottish Office via EA Cumming, Head of Operations and Policy Unit at the Scottish Court Service HQ in Edinburgh, late last week (about putting the Cullen Inquiry cross-examinations trancript onto the web). She says she's tried unsuccessfully to contact Lord Cullen who has til very recently been engaged in the public hearings for the Hammersmith train crash public enquiry. She will keep trying. She said to me that she personally didn't have the capability to HTML the transcripts and I suggested that the Stationery Office would do that for her if requested to do so. More easily if the floppies containing the transcripts were still available, less easily if they had to be scanned-in. She said that copies of the Inquiry transcript were available to the public and I pointed out that they're all in Edinburgh. She also commented that she thought public interest in the transcripts had waned after 4/4.5 years. The matter continues. I'll contact the director of the BASC about it and see what he has to say and let you know. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Two teenagers, a gas station owner, a fatal encounter
From: "Norman Cobb", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cybershooters may care to read this newspaper story and contrast the treatment of the civilian "shooter" with the fate of Tony Martin. Norm in Oregon, USA http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/local/adam08.shtml Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Cullen Inquiry Transcripts
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Scottish Court Service tell me today that full transcripts of the Cullen Inquiry cross-examinations are open to public inspection at: The National Library of Scotland in Edinburgh The Scottish Record Office in Edinburgh The Public Archives in Stirling. I'd not heard about the Scottish Record Office copy before. I understand that the 26 days of the Inquiry are contained in approximately that number of "volumes", presumably that means printed on one side of A4. I know the Scottish Pistol Shooting Association president has a copy of what relates to shooting, but not the whole lot. There is no copy in the British Library, nor to the best of my knowledge any copies outside Scotland. I'm trying to get the thing published by the Stationery Office and up on the web and will keep you informed on how I'm getting on. Would anybody who's seen any of these copies of the transcript let us know? Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Johnny Gurkha etc
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anyone looking for out-of-print books should check out http://www.abebooks.com http://www.powells.com which I've found very helpful. Try using a keyword search for general topics. A lot of people have a bit of our common history in their heads, or in grandad's effects. I notice the UK government is more interested in putting up museum buildings than getting our history out of the files and into the public domain on the internet. The government also exhibits an obsessive desire NOT to publicise some parts of our past - which probably accounts for it. I think that the business of putting a part of our common history into a private venture like a book in fact tends towards censoring of history for one bad reason or another and I think that web publishing of history is the better way forward. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-SAGBNI job opening
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] SAGBNI tell me they're currently considering offering Full (voting) Membership without liability insurance at a reduced rate - which, as previously discussed here, would be a more sensible use of their money for people who are already members of other shooting associations with insurance schemes. SAGBNI seem to think that this would involve transferring their DOS-based database to a Windows-based one and seem to be looking for a "data input professional" to do the job cheap. They're currently in Preston, Lancs. SAGBNI tel: 01772 200 801 Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Israel: Firearms confiscated
From: "Norman Cobb", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal firearms of former career officers to be thrown into sea (IsraelWire-7/30) Hundreds of former IDF career officers were forced to give up their personal firearms to the police in recent months, and these weapons, which were purchased privately, will be thrown into the sea, without their owners receiving compensation. Last December, an IDF order took effect, stating that any career officer, who purchased a personal weapon from January 1996 onward, must give it in to the police, beginning in 2000. Anyone ranking lieutenant-colonel or above is allowed to keep his weapon. Many of the former career soldiers, among them former combat soldiers, have given their weapons to the police. Another 3,500 have not yet done so. They have stated that they don't understand why they are not permitted to continue carrying arms, despite continuing to serve in the reserves, some in senior positions. Those who turned for answers to the Ministry of the Interior were told that the matter is under study. According to the Ministry of the Interior, the reason for rescinding the weapons' licenses is that the reason for providing the license in the first place no longer is relevant. A handgun sells today for NIS 1,500-2,000. Used guns are difficult to sell; therefore, the old guns are thrown into the sea. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Female Gun Mag Contributors
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I spoke to the editor of Gun Mart magazine about getting some female contributors to his magazine. He tells me heÆs had female contributors before and will consider any contributions from women shooters. I think women are the unadressed half of the possible shooters in the UK and it would be an excellent idea to get them more interested. Does anybody know of any female shooters whoÆd be interested in trying to contribute to Gun Mart? ItÆs an obvious move to read a copy of the magazine first. Write to: Pat Farey, Editor Gun Mart Castle House 97 High Street Colchester Essex CO1 1TH Regards Norman Bassett Drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Cullen Inquiry Transcripts
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have confirmation today that the British Library does NOT have a copy of the Cullen Inquiry transcripts. I had confirmation yesterday that the National Library of Scotland DOES have a copy of it: "The National Library does indeed hold a full copy of the transcript of the Cullen enquiry. The full title is 'Transcript of Proceedings at the public enquiry into incident at Dunblane Primary School on 13 March 1996 before the Hon. Lord Cullen on ... within the Albert Halls, Dumbarton Road, Stirling' and the work runs to 26 volumes. The NLS shelfmark is GSB.79" National Library of Scotland George IV Bridge Edinburgh EH1 1EW Tel: 0131 226 4531 www.nls.uk I understand you need a Reader's Ticket, you'll require to know the opening hours and you should check whether this stuff is kept on the premises or has to be sent out for to a warehouse. Phone first! I'd be interested in anybody's experiences in taking a look at the copies of the transcript either in Stirling or in Edinburgh. I live in Manchester currently. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
