Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
Hi, On Tuesday 06 November 2007 07:56:22 Durk Talsma wrote: On Monday 05 November 2007 16:50, Csaba Halász wrote: Yeah! How about setting up an mp-server feeding in real traffic? Or even just AI? So that every client would see the same traffic. Note: This is moving into a slightly different topic, but still interesting enough to mention, I hope. I've been thinking about this idea for some time now; separate out the intelligent part of the AI code into a separate program, and run this as a dedicated standalone program that feeds aircraft positions into flightgear. This would solve many initialization problems, because the server could run completely independently of FlightGear itself. If somebody would care to assist in working out the details of the networking code, I'd be happy to investigate the possibilities of setting up a dedicated AI traffic server. I really think, setting up a mp-client which feeds traffic is the right way to go. That way it does not matter, if the traffic is real or artificial. And best of all, flightgear itself does not need any changes at all. In fact, that was the reason why I tried to introduce a new pseudo-FDM into flightgear (well, especially I wanted to turn the AI-Nimitz into a real MP-client). While the feeded vehicle is in the air, there are no problems at all. But when approaching ground, or the vehicle is bound to the ground, there is one obstacle: The used terrain. In order to have the vehicle exactly on ground, the client must have the same terrain data which flightgear has. Therefor I thought of flightgear itself as the feeder. If you somehow manage to get the terrain ripped of in some kind of library, it would be possible to build just any kind of feeder via the mp-protocoll. Just my 2cents, Oliver - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Oliver Schroeder wrote: Hi, On Tuesday 06 November 2007 07:56:22 Durk Talsma wrote: On Monday 05 November 2007 16:50, Csaba Halász wrote: Yeah! How about setting up an mp-server feeding in real traffic? Or even just AI? So that every client would see the same traffic. Note: This is moving into a slightly different topic, but still interesting enough to mention, I hope. I've been thinking about this idea for some time now; separate out the intelligent part of the AI code into a separate program, and run this as a dedicated standalone program that feeds aircraft positions into flightgear. This would solve many initialization problems, because the server could run completely independently of FlightGear itself. ... I really think, setting up a mp-client which feeds traffic is the right way to go. That way it does not matter, if the traffic is real or artificial. And best of all, flightgear itself does not need any changes at all. I'd be a bit concerned about the performance implications of this approach. If the intent is to run this program on the same machine as FlightGear, then there will need to be a fair amount of tuning to make sure that the real-time FlightGear performance isn't affected and that the AI program isn't starved at the same time. My impression is that the traffic manager is quite CPU intensive; perhaps that's skewed by initialization costs. It's still a good idea to have a separate program as an option, and many people have several computers laying around. But do think about the single machine case too, especially in the context of wanting to work well on three operating systems (Unix, Windows, OS X). Tim -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHMDbIeDhWHdXrDRURAonNAKC1K78zt9G3HWjVIQWQEGXn/p61WwCgpRYz tUq6gLO2SU55RYkzfRDyC1M= =7OoR -END PGP SIGNATURE- - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
Carroll Barry wrote: I don't have access to a live feed but I'm hoping to get a delayed one perhaps, in the same way as fboweb @ http://www.fboweb.com/ has. Aviation Data Systems (who produce fboweb.com) are listed as a Class 1 ASDI Direct subscriber on the ASDI website - so they have access to a direct real-time feed. I think that means they will have put their hardware in the FAA facility to receive the data stream, though I note that VPN access is now available for the data, which is more flexible. There are various restrictions on who can receive Class 1 data, including beign part of a professional aviation organization. I don't think we qualify as a Class 1 user, even if we could find someone to give us a free feed. Class 2 data is time-delayed by 5 minutes and has fewer restrictions. However, I note that the MOA on the website explicitly states that the FAA have the right to review any public accessible version of the information prior to availability. See section 7.1.6 of http://www.fly.faa.gov/ASDI/asdidocs/asdi_moa_01_jun06.pdf. I think that applies to our use of the data, so we'd need the FAAs OK on what we are doing. I'd strongly suggest that you secure access to the data first, and then look at how to add it to FlightGear. That probably means reading the various docs in detail, talking to the FAA, and then finally to a data provider. I know this is probably boring and not as exciting as doing the actual technical work, but I'd hate for you to put in huge amounts of effort into writing an MP client only to find you have no access to the feeds at the end of the process because the FAA won't allow it. I'd be interested in helping out - I have a small amount of familiarity with the MP code. I doubt I'll be able to help you in talking to the FAA, as I'm not a US citizen, nor based in the USA. I suspect an bonefide US taxpayer might get a better response :). I think it is a great idea, and if it works, would be a wonderful way to improve the traffic over the USA. Good luck! -Stuart ___ Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
Hi Stuart, Thomas, Oliver Firstly thank-you to everyone so far, some good ideas have been put forward and It is seeming more likely that this might work. I don't have access to a live feed but I'm hoping to get a delayed one perhaps, in the same way as fboweb @ http://www.fboweb.com/ has. I'll be looking into either hacking the mp-server or developing a specialised mp-client as suggested. I have a feeling that the hacked server might be quicker to get going but the client would be the way to go in the longer term. Thanks again to everyone, I appreciate your help very much. Barry. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
Tim Moore wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Oliver Schroeder wrote: I really think, setting up a mp-client which feeds traffic is the right way to go. That way it does not matter, if the traffic is real or artificial. And best of all, flightgear itself does not need any changes at all. I'd be a bit concerned about the performance implications of this approach. If the intent is to run this program on the same machine as FlightGear, then there will need to be a fair amount of tuning to make sure that the real-time FlightGear performance isn't affected and that the AI program isn't starved at the same time. My impression is that the traffic manager is quite CPU intensive; perhaps that's skewed by initialization costs. It's still a good idea to have a separate program as an option, and many people have several computers laying around. But do think about the single machine case too, especially in the context of wanting to work well on three operating systems (Unix, Windows, OS X). I would think that the big benefit of having an MP client feeding traffic is that we'd only need one traffic client for all the people connected to MP around the world. Personally, I think that out-weighs the performance implications for those people not connected to MP who want AI traffic and who have to run a client locally. Having a separate client for traffic also has the benefit of allowing the user to prioritize my own flying over that of the AI traffic. I'd rather have the AI traffic stutter than my own aircraft. -Stuart ___ Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
On Tuesday 06 November 2007 09:25, Oliver Schroeder wrote: I really think, setting up a mp-client which feeds traffic is the right way to go. That way it does not matter, if the traffic is real or artificial. And best of all, flightgear itself does not need any changes at all. In fact, that was the reason why I tried to introduce a new pseudo-FDM into flightgear (well, especially I wanted to turn the AI-Nimitz into a real MP-client). I fully agree. To FlightGear it would be visible as multiplayer aircraft, coming in over the network. There would be some special cases to consider, but the general infrastructure of the multiplayer server could serve as a template for an AI server as well. While the feeded vehicle is in the air, there are no problems at all. But when approaching ground, or the vehicle is bound to the ground, there is one obstacle: The used terrain. In order to have the vehicle exactly on ground, the client must have the same terrain data which flightgear has. Therefor I thought of flightgear itself as the feeder. If you somehow manage to get the terrain ripped of in some kind of library, it would be possible to build just any kind of feeder via the mp-protocoll. Assuming that AI aircraft behave in a reasonably sane fashion, you'd only need to take care of elevation points across the runways and taxiways. These data could be sampled straight from the flightgear scenery, and perhaps stored locally on the server machine. Cheers, Durk - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
On Tuesday 06 November 2007 10:41, Tim Moore wrote: I'd be a bit concerned about the performance implications of this approach. If the intent is to run this program on the same machine as FlightGear, then there will need to be a fair amount of tuning to make sure that the real-time FlightGear performance isn't affected and that the AI program isn't starved at the same time. My impression is that the traffic manager is quite CPU intensive; perhaps that's skewed by initialization costs. The traffic manager subsystem itself not so much as the AIModels system that eventually drives it. In this respect, there is still a lot of room for optimization. A particular problem with the integrated solution is that both the traffic manager and the AI models code occasionally need peaks of CPU activity, in particular during flightplan creation. Although it would be possible to spread the load across multiple frames, doing so is a lot harder within flightgear than doing this as a separate program. It's still a good idea to have a separate program as an option, and many people have several computers laying around. But do think about the single machine case too, especially in the context of wanting to work well on three operating systems (Unix, Windows, OS X). Agreed. I don't think that the integrated version will disappear soon. :-) Cheers, Durk - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
On Tuesday 06 November 2007 20:22, Durk Talsma wrote: Assuming that AI aircraft behave in a reasonably sane fashion, you'd only need to take care of elevation points across the runways and taxiways. These data could be sampled straight from the flightgear scenery, and perhaps stored locally on the server machine. Oh, one thing I did forget to mention: One thing that a traffic server would require is metar parsing, so that AI traffic would make sensible runway selections. Cheers, Durk - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
On Nov 6, 2007 8:22 PM, Durk Talsma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Assuming that AI aircraft behave in a reasonably sane fashion, you'd only need to take care of elevation points across the runways and taxiways. These data could be sampled straight from the flightgear scenery, and perhaps stored locally on the server machine. Actually when I worked on the ground radar I was puzzled why this is not part of apt.dat.gz. -- Csaba/Jester - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
On Tuesday 06 November 2007 06:56, Durk Talsma wrote: On Monday 05 November 2007 16:50, Csaba Halász wrote: On 11/5/07, Heiko Schulz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Though I can't help you, it sounds for me like a very good feature for FlightGear! Real weather - real traffic - would be great! Yeah! How about setting up an mp-server feeding in real traffic? Or even just AI? So that every client would see the same traffic. Note: This is moving into a slightly different topic, but still interesting enough to mention, I hope. I've been thinking about this idea for some time now; separate out the intelligent part of the AI code into a separate program, and run this as a dedicated standalone program that feeds aircraft positions into flightgear. This would solve many initialization problems, because the server could run completely independently of FlightGear itself. If somebody would care to assist in working out the details of the networking code, I'd be happy to investigate the possibilities of setting up a dedicated AI traffic server. Cheers, Durk FWIW, I think that separating out as many FG subsystems as possible would be a very good way to go, especially in view of how CPU development is now solidly focussed on multiple core CPUs rather than ramping processing speeds, as was inevitable in the longer term. Re this particular subsystem, it might be worth also thinking about handling some of the weather stuff i.e. 3d clouds, storms and thermals, so these are also consistant over MP. LeeE - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
hmmm... good idea for mp and network. But it still costs money to have internet and maybe some flightschools, which want to use FGFS don't want this because. I think there should be still a possibility to have this all on one pc without network. HHS --- leee [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Tuesday 06 November 2007 06:56, Durk Talsma wrote: On Monday 05 November 2007 16:50, Csaba Halász wrote: On 11/5/07, Heiko Schulz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Though I can't help you, it sounds for me like a very good feature for FlightGear! Real weather - real traffic - would be great! Yeah! How about setting up an mp-server feeding in real traffic? Or even just AI? So that every client would see the same traffic. Note: This is moving into a slightly different topic, but still interesting enough to mention, I hope. I've been thinking about this idea for some time now; separate out the intelligent part of the AI code into a separate program, and run this as a dedicated standalone program that feeds aircraft positions into flightgear. This would solve many initialization problems, because the server could run completely independently of FlightGear itself. If somebody would care to assist in working out the details of the networking code, I'd be happy to investigate the possibilities of setting up a dedicated AI traffic server. Cheers, Durk FWIW, I think that separating out as many FG subsystems as possible would be a very good way to go, especially in view of how CPU development is now solidly focussed on multiple core CPUs rather than ramping processing speeds, as was inevitable in the longer term. Re this particular subsystem, it might be worth also thinking about handling some of the weather stuff i.e. 3d clouds, storms and thermals, so these are also consistant over MP. LeeE - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den schönsten Strand? www.yahoo.de/clever - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
There's no reason why it shouldn't run on the same box as FG - it could communicate via loopback or localhost. Ideally, FG would automatically start a local process to use if a net or lan server isn't specified. LeeE On Tuesday 06 November 2007 20:17, Heiko Schulz wrote: hmmm... good idea for mp and network. But it still costs money to have internet and maybe some flightschools, which want to use FGFS don't want this because. I think there should be still a possibility to have this all on one pc without network. HHS --- leee [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Tuesday 06 November 2007 06:56, Durk Talsma wrote: On Monday 05 November 2007 16:50, Csaba Halász wrote: On 11/5/07, Heiko Schulz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Though I can't help you, it sounds for me like a very good feature for FlightGear! Real weather - real traffic - would be great! Yeah! How about setting up an mp-server feeding in real traffic? Or even just AI? So that every client would see the same traffic. Note: This is moving into a slightly different topic, but still interesting enough to mention, I hope. I've been thinking about this idea for some time now; separate out the intelligent part of the AI code into a separate program, and run this as a dedicated standalone program that feeds aircraft positions into flightgear. This would solve many initialization problems, because the server could run completely independently of FlightGear itself. If somebody would care to assist in working out the details of the networking code, I'd be happy to investigate the possibilities of setting up a dedicated AI traffic server. Cheers, Durk FWIW, I think that separating out as many FG subsystems as possible would be a very good way to go, especially in view of how CPU development is now solidly focussed on multiple core CPUs rather than ramping processing speeds, as was inevitable in the longer term. Re this particular subsystem, it might be worth also thinking about handling some of the weather stuff i.e. 3d clouds, storms and thermals, so these are also consistant over MP. LeeE - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den schönsten Strand? www.yahoo.de/clever - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
I'm not so keen on computing and programming - so if this works good, I don't see any problems! --- LeeE [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: There's no reason why it shouldn't run on the same box as FG - it could communicate via loopback or localhost. Ideally, FG would automatically start a local process to use if a net or lan server isn't specified. LeeE On Tuesday 06 November 2007 20:17, Heiko Schulz wrote: hmmm... good idea for mp and network. But it still costs money to have internet and maybe some flightschools, which want to use FGFS don't want this because. I think there should be still a possibility to have this all on one pc without network. HHS --- leee [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Tuesday 06 November 2007 06:56, Durk Talsma wrote: On Monday 05 November 2007 16:50, Csaba Halász wrote: On 11/5/07, Heiko Schulz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Though I can't help you, it sounds for me like a very good feature for FlightGear! Real weather - real traffic - would be great! Yeah! How about setting up an mp-server feeding in real traffic? Or even just AI? So that every client would see the same traffic. Note: This is moving into a slightly different topic, but still interesting enough to mention, I hope. I've been thinking about this idea for some time now; separate out the intelligent part of the AI code into a separate program, and run this as a dedicated standalone program that feeds aircraft positions into flightgear. This would solve many initialization problems, because the server could run completely independently of FlightGear itself. If somebody would care to assist in working out the details of the networking code, I'd be happy to investigate the possibilities of setting up a dedicated AI traffic server. Cheers, Durk FWIW, I think that separating out as many FG subsystems as possible would be a very good way to go, especially in view of how CPU development is now solidly focussed on multiple core CPUs rather than ramping processing speeds, as was inevitable in the longer term. Re this particular subsystem, it might be worth also thinking about handling some of the weather stuff i.e. 3d clouds, storms and thermals, so these are also consistant over MP. LeeE - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den schönsten Strand? www.yahoo.de/clever - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ Ihr erstes Baby? Holen Sie sich Tipps von anderen Eltern. www.yahoo.de/clever - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
I'm not so keen on computing and programming - so if this works good, I don't see any problems! --- LeeE [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: There's no reason why it shouldn't run on the same box as FG - it could communicate via loopback or localhost. Ideally, FG would automatically start a local process to use if a net or lan server isn't specified. LeeE On Tuesday 06 November 2007 20:17, Heiko Schulz wrote: hmmm... good idea for mp and network. But it still costs money to have internet and maybe some flightschools, which want to use FGFS don't want this because. I think there should be still a possibility to have this all on one pc without network. HHS --- leee [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Tuesday 06 November 2007 06:56, Durk Talsma wrote: On Monday 05 November 2007 16:50, Csaba Halász wrote: On 11/5/07, Heiko Schulz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Though I can't help you, it sounds for me like a very good feature for FlightGear! Real weather - real traffic - would be great! Yeah! How about setting up an mp-server feeding in real traffic? Or even just AI? So that every client would see the same traffic. Note: This is moving into a slightly different topic, but still interesting enough to mention, I hope. I've been thinking about this idea for some time now; separate out the intelligent part of the AI code into a separate program, and run this as a dedicated standalone program that feeds aircraft positions into flightgear. This would solve many initialization problems, because the server could run completely independently of FlightGear itself. If somebody would care to assist in working out the details of the networking code, I'd be happy to investigate the possibilities of setting up a dedicated AI traffic server. Cheers, Durk FWIW, I think that separating out as many FG subsystems as possible would be a very good way to go, especially in view of how CPU development is now solidly focussed on multiple core CPUs rather than ramping processing speeds, as was inevitable in the longer term. Re this particular subsystem, it might be worth also thinking about handling some of the weather stuff i.e. 3d clouds, storms and thermals, so these are also consistant over MP. LeeE - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den schönsten Strand? www.yahoo.de/clever - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen? Versuchen Sie´s mit dem neuen Yahoo! Mail. www.yahoo.de/mail - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
Hi Barry, I did a work to a Brazilian institute past year and the software to control the aircraft, in fact control the flighgear simulator, exactly like your project. I did a C module that interacts with Telnet server of FlightGear and controls the flight using the telnet properties/commands. It works fine. Leidson Campos PlanetaMessenger.org On 11/5/07, Carroll Barry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, I would like to use Flightgear to display real-time air traffic. At the moment I am using tracking data from this site: http://www.fly.faa.gov/ASDI/asdi.html What I would like to be able to do is to create and control aircraft programmatically from a c++ application. I have tried to find out if this is possible myself and I came across some useful info on the wiki that allows you to write flight plans in xml. This isn't suitable for me unfortunately because I need to create and control aircraft on the fly rather than have it all defined at startup. Does anyone know if want I want is possible? Thanks for any help, Barry. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
Hi, Though I can't help you, it sounds for me like a very good feature for FlightGear! Real weather - real traffic - would be great! HHS --- Carroll Barry [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Hello all, I would like to use Flightgear to display real-time air traffic. At the moment I am using tracking data from this site: http://www.fly.faa.gov/ASDI/asdi.html What I would like to be able to do is to create and control aircraft programmatically from a c++ application. I have tried to find out if this is possible myself and I came across some useful info on the wiki that allows you to write flight plans in xml. This isn't suitable for me unfortunately because I need to create and control aircraft on the fly rather than have it all defined at startup. Does anyone know if want I want is possible? Thanks for any help, Barry. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ Ihre erste Baustelle? Wissenswertes für Bastler und Hobby Handwerker. www.yahoo.de/clever - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
On 11/5/07, Heiko Schulz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Though I can't help you, it sounds for me like a very good feature for FlightGear! Real weather - real traffic - would be great! Yeah! How about setting up an mp-server feeding in real traffic? Or even just AI? So that every client would see the same traffic. -- Csaba - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
Am Montag 05 November 2007 schrieb Carroll Barry: Hello all, I would like to use Flightgear to display real-time air traffic. At the moment I am using tracking data from this site: http://www.fly.faa.gov/ASDI/asdi.html What I would like to be able to do is to create and control aircraft programmatically from a c++ application. I have tried to find out if this is possible myself and I came across some useful info on the wiki that allows you to write flight plans in xml. This isn't suitable for me unfortunately because I need to create and control aircraft on the fly rather than have it all defined at startup. IMO the existing AI solutions aren't really suited to your problem. They try hard to setup an AIFlightPlan for every plane, which is responsible for (semi-)automatically routing the aircraft (calculating course, approx. attitudes etc.). Most of these calculations are obsolete in your case. All you want is to display your external AI traffic position data (probably with a bit of interpolation) As you want to do it as an external application anyway, maybe the best way is to use the multiplayer protocol and implement it as a custom multiplayer server. Thomas - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
Thanks Leidson, I have seen the http and telnet interface and they are good. The problem is that it seems like you can only control your own plane in this way. There is an AI node in the properties tree but I can see no way of adding aircraft at run-time and this is my main concern. Maybe I can be more clear: I will be reading sample data of aircraft tracking. Using this data I would like to create or spawn a new aircraft inside flightgear for each unique flight I find. After this I would like to update their positions whenever I find updated tracking data. Thanks for all the replies, Barry. -Original Message- From: Leidson Campos A. Ferreira [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:32:26 -0300 Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic Hi Barry, I did a work to a Brazilian institute past year and the software to control the aircraft, in fact control the flighgear simulator, exactly like your project. I did a C module that interacts with Telnet server of FlightGear and controls the flight using the telnet properties/commands. It works fine. Leidson Campos PlanetaMessenger.org On 11/5/07, Carroll Barry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, I would like to use Flightgear to display real-time air traffic. At the moment I am using tracking data from this site: http://www.fly.faa.gov/ASDI/asdi.html What I would like to be able to do is to create and control aircraft programmatically from a c++ application. I have tried to find out if this is possible myself and I came across some useful info on the wiki that allows you to write flight plans in xml. This isn't suitable for me unfortunately because I need to create and control aircraft on the fly rather than have it all defined at startup. Does anyone know if want I want is possible? Thanks for any help, Barry. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
Hi Thomas, Thanks for the reply. Would your solution allow me to manually control what might be thousands or aircraft? I haven't looked into the multiplayer protocol yet because I am just using the standalone exe on my pc. Would I be correct in thinking that I would implement the following: A virtual client (perhaps a thread) for each aircraft that connects to the multiplayer server as a computer-controlled player. Then I would connect to the server myself and perhaps fly around manually so I can see the other aircraft? Thanks again, Barry. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
Am Montag 05 November 2007 schrieb Carroll Barry: Hi Thomas, Thanks for the reply. Would your solution allow me to manually control what might be thousands or aircraft? I haven't looked into the multiplayer protocol yet because I am just using the standalone exe on my pc. Would I be correct in thinking that I would implement the following: A virtual client (perhaps a thread) for each aircraft that connects to the multiplayer server as a computer-controlled player. Should not be necessary. All you do is to output the AI aircraft positions to all clients connected. The server itself fetches the data from the internet or whatever the source. No need to have a client for every AI plane. In a way you fake connected players on your customized server. Then I would connect to the server myself and perhaps fly around manually so I can see the other aircraft? Yep, thats the visual side. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
--- Carroll Barry wrote: Hello all, I would like to use Flightgear to display real-time air traffic. At the moment I am using tracking data from this site: http://www.fly.faa.gov/ASDI/asdi.html What I would like to be able to do is to create and control aircraft programmatically from a c++ application. Hi Barry, This was something I took a look at a year or so ago. The main stumbling block appeared to be getting an actual data feed. The existing subscribers obviously do this on commercial basis, and I don't imagine that they'd be happy for FG to use live data. The alternative of actually installing some kit at the FAA didn't seem all that likely either. I eventually decided that the most likely way to get some data would be to ask for historical data from, say, a single day and use it to populate some AI aircraft. I did have a short email discussion with Dave Baker at FlightAware, who suggested that they might be able to work something out (which was very kind). Unfortunately nothing came of it as they were very busy at the time preparing for a trade show, and I moved onto other projects. Do you have access to a live feed ? In my opinion the data feed issue is critical - the rest is just implementation. We've a whole range of ways in which we can display the aircraft. With a live feed, I think the most sensible method would be as a specialized MP client. That minimizes the load on the other clients and means the MP server can filter the correct traffic for each client. -Stuart ___ Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
Csaba Halász wrote: On 11/5/07, Heiko Schulz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Though I can't help you, it sounds for me like a very good feature for FlightGear! Real weather - real traffic - would be great! Yeah! How about setting up an mp-server feeding in real traffic? Or even just AI? So that every client would see the same traffic. In order to feed in multiple aircraft that's probably the best approach - generate a multiplayer data stream for each aircraft you want to display - it'll benefit from the internal interpolation in the mp code too (I'm guessing you won't have 20 updates a second as would be fed from an instance of flightgear, so the interpolation will help immensely). If you just want to display a single aircraft then GPSsmooth is probably worth investigating. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Programmatic control of AI traffic
On Monday 05 November 2007 16:50, Csaba Halász wrote: On 11/5/07, Heiko Schulz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Though I can't help you, it sounds for me like a very good feature for FlightGear! Real weather - real traffic - would be great! Yeah! How about setting up an mp-server feeding in real traffic? Or even just AI? So that every client would see the same traffic. Note: This is moving into a slightly different topic, but still interesting enough to mention, I hope. I've been thinking about this idea for some time now; separate out the intelligent part of the AI code into a separate program, and run this as a dedicated standalone program that feeds aircraft positions into flightgear. This would solve many initialization problems, because the server could run completely independently of FlightGear itself. If somebody would care to assist in working out the details of the networking code, I'd be happy to investigate the possibilities of setting up a dedicated AI traffic server. Cheers, Durk - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
