24.02.2014 02:32, Alan McKinnon wrote:
On 23/02/2014 20:18, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
I don't think forking would attract much developers. Writing something
new trying to follow the*nix design principles, but being modern and
with the same features (all of them optional, of course) of systemd
On 22.02.2014 11:40, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
[ ... ]
Even as the complex beast it has become systemd is still simpler than the
alternative of having abominations of unreliable shell scripts checking to see
which version of grep and sed is used to split the command line, or whether
the system
On 02/21/2014 08:33 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote:
On Fri, February 21, 2014 18:33, thegeezer wrote:
On 02/20/2014 08:06 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
snipped
.. setting systemd to log to syslog to make transitions smoother (as
logs are lost on reboot by default)
Eeerh, logs are lost on reboot?
until you
On 02/22/2014 01:21 PM, thegeezer wrote:
On 02/21/2014 08:33 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote:
On Fri, February 21, 2014 18:33, thegeezer wrote:
On 02/20/2014 08:06 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
snipped
.. setting systemd to log to syslog to make transitions smoother (as
logs are lost on reboot by default)
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 16:40:46 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
Of course the larger a project is the *potential* number of bugs
increases, but so what? With enough developers, users and testers, all
bugs are *potentially* squashed.
Agreed, but I know of enough large projects with large
On 2014-02-21 4:58 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:32:07 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:
Ok, so, since it really is so simple, wouldn't it be easier to
implement this as an eselect module then, as opposed to creating a
bunch of separate profiles?
profiles handle
On Sat, 22 February 2014, at 10:38 am, Yuri K. Shatroff yks-...@yandex.ru
wrote:
On 22.02.2014 11:40, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
[ ... ]
Even as the complex beast it has become systemd is still simpler than the
alternative of having abominations of unreliable shell scripts checking to
see
On 22/02/2014 18:37, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 2014-02-21 4:58 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:32:07 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:
Ok, so, since it really is so simple, wouldn't it be easier to
implement this as an eselect module then, as opposed to creating a
bunch of
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 9:28 AM, Andrew Savchenko birc...@gmail.com wrote:
[snip]
And here we have a design issue. I already pointed this issue in this
discussion:
http://www.mail-archive.com/gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org/msg144144.html
Though it was completely ignored by you. I understand: it
On 22.02.2014 21:21, Stroller wrote:
On Sat, 22 February 2014, at 10:38 am, Yuri K. Shatroff
yks-...@yandex.ru wrote:
On 22.02.2014 11:40, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
[ ... ] Even as the complex beast it has become systemd is still
simpler than the alternative of having abominations of
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Yuri K. Shatroff yks-...@yandex.ru wrote:
On 22.02.2014 21:21, Stroller wrote:
[ snip ]
I’m doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won’t be big and
professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. … PS. Yes – it’s free
of any minix code, and it has a
On 23.02.2014 00:22, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Yuri K. Shatroff yks-...@yandex.ru wrote:
On 22.02.2014 21:21, Stroller wrote:
[ snip ]
I’m doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won’t be big and
professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. … PS.
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On 02/19/14 14:37, Gevisz wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:53:12 +0400
the the.gu...@mail.ru wrote:
On 02/18/14 17:56, Gevisz wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 23:30:42 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés
can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 8:05
On 2014-02-20 10:36 PM, Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
Sorry, Canek, no offense was intended, but if you go back and re-read your
'extremely overly enthusiastic' post (this plus the content is why I
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
On 2014-02-20 10:36 PM, Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org
wrote:
So, please, don't take it as an insult. In fact you have done a very
On 2014-02-20 4:04 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
Thinking about this more, since apparently using a separate
profile may just be 'overkill', how about something simpler, like,
for example, using eselect...
Something like:
#
On 2014-02-21 9:28 AM, Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com wrote:
It is one thing entirely to say you don't like some software, and
another thing entirely to obligate everyone else in the world to
never depend on it.
All myself and others have been insisting on is that systemd proponents
be
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:02:31 -0500
Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
On 2014-02-20 10:36 PM, Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Tanstaafl
tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
Sorry, Canek, no offense was intended, but if you go back and
On 02/20/2014 08:06 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
Thinking about this more, since apparently using a separate profile
may just be 'overkill', how about something simpler, like, for
example, using eselect...
Something like:
# eselect init list
Available init systems:
[1] OpenRC *
[2]
On 2014-02-21 12:33 PM, thegeezer thegee...@thegeezer.net wrote:
On 02/20/2014 08:06 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
Thinking about this more, since apparently using a separate profile
may just be 'overkill', how about something simpler, like, for
example, using eselect...
Something like:
# eselect
On Thu, February 20, 2014 06:34, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 3:00 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
On Tue, February 18, 2014 18:12, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
[ snip ]
Of course the larger a project is the *potential* number of bugs
increases, but so
On Thu, February 20, 2014 06:24, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:50 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
On Tue, February 18, 2014 15:37, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:54 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org
wrote:
snipped
Same
On Fri, February 21, 2014 18:33, thegeezer wrote:
On 02/20/2014 08:06 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
snipped
.. setting systemd to log to syslog to make transitions smoother (as
logs are lost on reboot by default)
Eeerh, logs are lost on reboot?
I only had (it died last weekend) one (yes, ONE) machine
On Thu, February 20, 2014 16:16, Alan McKinnon wrote:
On 20/02/2014 11:16, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
20.02.2014 09:24, Canek Peláez Valdés пиÑеÑ:
[ snip ]
but I do not see the point, beyond as a nice gimmick.
Well, I *do* see a point. Many points, actually. You want the logs for
SSH,
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 9:36 PM, Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com wrote:
[ snip ]
If systemd truly is, as you say taking over and devouring the linux world
Mark, although I agree with much of your mail (but not all), I don't
think is fair how you are treating Tanstaafl; he never said that.
On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 19:40:46 -0600
Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
But I'm going to save you some bucks: there is nothing fishy.
Carry on with the wires on the tin hat.
Regards.
Perfect. So that nails that bugaboo as well.
All is good, then, absolutely nothing to see
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:32:07 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:
Ok, so, since it really is so simple, wouldn't it be easier to
implement this as an eselect module then, as opposed to creating a
bunch of separate profiles?
profiles handle USE flags, eselect does not. Of course, you can use
eselect to
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:14 PM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
On Thu, February 20, 2014 06:34, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 3:00 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
On Tue, February 18, 2014 18:12, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
[ snip ]
Of course
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Michael Higgins li...@evolone.org wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 19:40:46 -0600
Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
But I'm going to save you some bucks: there is nothing fishy.
Carry on with the wires on the tin hat.
Regards.
Perfect. So that
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 6:40 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:14 PM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
On Thu, February 20, 2014 06:34, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 3:00 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
On Tue,
20.02.2014 09:24, Canek Peláez Valdés пишет:
[ snip ]
but I do not see the point, beyond as a nice gimmick.
Well, I *do* see a point. Many points, actually. You want the logs for
SSH, from February 12 to February 15? Done:
journalctl --since=2014-02-12 --until=2014-02-15 -u sshd.service
On 2014-02-20 12:43 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 6:38 AM, Tanstaafltansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
On 2014-02-19 2:04 AM, Daniel Campbellli...@sporkbox.us wrote:
For such a profile to be legitimate, systemd would have to be chosen as
the default.
On 20/02/2014 11:16, Yuri K. Shatroff wrote:
20.02.2014 09:24, Canek Peláez Valdés пишет:
[ snip ]
but I do not see the point, beyond as a nice gimmick.
Well, I *do* see a point. Many points, actually. You want the logs for
SSH, from February 12 to February 15? Done:
journalctl
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 6:53 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
On 2014-02-20 12:43 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 6:38 AM, Tanstaafltansta...@libertytrek.org
wrote:
On 2014-02-19 2:04 AM, Daniel Campbellli...@sporkbox.us wrote:
For
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 3:16 AM, Yuri K. Shatroff yks-...@yandex.ru wrote:
20.02.2014 09:24, Canek Peláez Valdés пишет:
[ snip ]
but I do not see the point, beyond as a nice gimmick.
Well, I *do* see a point. Many points, actually. You want the logs for
SSH, from February 12 to February
On 2014-02-20 10:55 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 6:53 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
while I agree with most everything you said, your primary point -
that it should be the people who *don't* want systemd doing all of
the work - was
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
On 2014-02-20 10:55 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 6:53 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org
wrote:
while I agree with most everything you said, your primary point -
that
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org
wrote:
On 2014-02-20 1:36 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
The moment I saw that the profile is already done, I changed my
mind; the people using systemd ALREADY did the work (which seems to be
trivial, BTW; I
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
On 2014-02-20 4:04 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
No, actually, I think whatever is defined as the current default should
dictate which group should be required to do the work.
I think this is where
On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 15:38:46 -0600
Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Tanstaafl
tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
On 2014-02-20 4:04 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
No, actually, I think whatever is defined as the current default
On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 15:37:09 -0800
Michael Higgins li...@evolone.org wrote:
Okay, I'll go re-wire my tin hat now. Hope someone found this amusing.
One other thought I'd has was, well, as long as systemd doesn't, like,
implement some kind of net protocol, so to make it possible to ship
logs
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 5:37 PM, Michael Higgins li...@evolone.org wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 15:38:46 -0600
Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Tanstaafl
tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
On 2014-02-20 4:04 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 6:16 PM, Michael Higgins li...@evolone.org wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 15:37:09 -0800
Michael Higgins li...@evolone.org wrote:
Okay, I'll go re-wire my tin hat now. Hope someone found this amusing.
One other thought I'd has was, well, as long as systemd doesn't, like,
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
On 2014-02-20 12:43 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 6:38 AM, Tanstaafltansta...@libertytrek.org
wrote:
On 2014-02-19 2:04 AM, Daniel Campbellli...@sporkbox.us wrote:
For
Mark David Dumlao wrote:
If udev wants systemd, and you don't, but you want to continue using
udev, it's _your_ job to look for a method or patch or package or
script that makes it work.
That's already done. It's called eudev. :-D
Dale
:-) :-)
--
I am only responsible for what I said
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 11:36:15 +0800 Mark David Dumlao wrote:
[...]
So, please, don't take it as an insult. In fact you have done a very good
job of patiently spelling out the advantages of systemd, to the point I'm no
longer afraid of it taking over and devouring the linux world.
If
On Tue, February 18, 2014 15:37, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:54 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
As I do not have systemd installed on any machine, I can't check the
man-pages.
They are online [1].
Useful, but not necessary for this discussion.
But, if
On Tue, February 18, 2014 18:12, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Andrew Savchenko birc...@gmail.com
wrote:
[...]
Every decent project has QA and unit tests one way or another. But
the larger project is, the more bugs it has. And I do not want bugs
in PID 1,
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 01:04:14 -0600, Daniel Campbell wrote:
Or to create a non-systemd profile :)
For such a profile to be legitimate, systemd would have to be chosen as
the default.
Quite the opposite, to have a separate systemd profile would mean that
systemd was not the default,
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 01:04:14 -0600
Daniel Campbell li...@sporkbox.us wrote:
On 02/18/2014 12:14 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Andrew Savchenko
birc...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:22:23 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
Yet again, I respect
On 02/19/2014 09:06 AM, Gevisz wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 01:04:14 -0600
Daniel Campbell li...@sporkbox.us wrote:
On 02/18/2014 12:14 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Andrew Savchenko
birc...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:22:23 -0600 Canek Peláez
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On 02/19/2014 03:02 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 01:04:14 -0600, Daniel Campbell wrote:
Or to create a non-systemd profile :)
For such a profile to be legitimate, systemd would have to be
chosen as the default.
Quite the
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:53:12 +0400
the the.gu...@mail.ru wrote:
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On 02/18/14 17:56, Gevisz wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 23:30:42 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés
can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Gevisz gev...@gmail.com
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 04:34:35 -0600, Daniel Campbell wrote:
How is putting systemd setting in a profile that a user has to
consciously choose to use forcing anything on anyone? Profiles are
the essence of choice but it appears you only want the choices you
approve of to be available.
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On 02/19/2014 04:50 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 04:34:35 -0600, Daniel Campbell wrote:
How is putting systemd setting in a profile that a user has to
consciously choose to use forcing anything on anyone? Profiles
are the
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:19:43 + thegeezer wrote:
[...]
For all this talk about technical details,
nobody seems to notice the marketing
A few people including myself have noted it earlier.
that's going on and frankly it disgusts me.
And me too.
I have to confess that it does
On 2014-02-19 2:04 AM, Daniel Campbell li...@sporkbox.us wrote:
For such a profile to be legitimate, systemd would have to be chosen as
the default.
Ridiculous. Forget about Canek's rant...
This is about *choice*. Also, I would argue the *opposite of what Canek
is saying in this last rant...
On 2014-02-18 4:05 PM, Sebastian Beßler sebast...@darkmetatron.de wrote:
First I thought that with systemd I have to use all the things shipped
with systemd like journald (which I don't like because I think that a
binary file for syslogs is just broken) so I looked into the config
files of
On 19.02.2014 09:50, J. Roeleveld wrote:
Additionally, the use of tail -f and grep allows me to check the logs
real-time for debugging purposes.
Having to use a seperate tool that converts some proprietary binary format
to human readable/scriptable single-line logs makes no sense.
This is
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 04:54:08 -0600, Daniel Campbell wrote:
There are technical arguments for and against systemd, which is why
this thread was started, rhetoric about forcing default profiles on
people when there is no such thing as a default profile only serve
to cloud the real issues.
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 7:57 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
On 2014-02-18 4:05 PM, Sebastian Beßler sebast...@darkmetatron.de wrote:
First I thought that with systemd I have to use all the things shipped
with systemd like journald (which I don't like because I think that a
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:50 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
On Tue, February 18, 2014 15:37, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:54 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
As I do not have systemd installed on any machine, I can't check the
man-pages.
They
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 3:00 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
On Tue, February 18, 2014 18:12, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
[ snip ]
Of course the larger a project is the *potential* number of bugs
increases, but so what? With enough developers, users and testers, all
bugs are
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 6:38 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
On 2014-02-19 2:04 AM, Daniel Campbell li...@sporkbox.us wrote:
For such a profile to be legitimate, systemd would have to be chosen as
the default.
Ridiculous. Forget about Canek's rant...
This is about *choice*.
On 18/02/2014 05:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:53 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
wrote:
On 17/02/2014 17:29, Stroller wrote:
On Sun, 16 February 2014, at 4:41 pm, Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote:
...
Whatever problems Red Hat are
On Tue, February 18, 2014 10:47, Alan McKinnon wrote:
On 18/02/2014 05:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
I used to use cherokee. Fast, light, awesome, and with a web admin.
The init script always failed me. /etc/init.d/cherokee stop was not a
guaranteed stop to all forked cherokee processes - the
On Sun, February 16, 2014 22:16, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote:
oh? I can pipe that output into cat or any any daemon I like? Doesn't
look like so.
But it does, you can cat with journalctl; it's one of its
On 18/02/2014 11:52, J. Roeleveld wrote:
On Tue, February 18, 2014 10:47, Alan McKinnon wrote:
On 18/02/2014 05:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
I used to use cherokee. Fast, light, awesome, and with a web admin.
The init script always failed me. /etc/init.d/cherokee stop was not a
guaranteed
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 19:09:40 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
How Integrated? The TCP/IP stack *is* integrated. But it is *protocol*
integration, *standards* integration not *software* integration. You do want
tight integration where it just can't work otherwise, but the design of Unix
On 2014-02-17 3:17 PM, Andrew Savchenko birc...@gmail.com wrote:
OK, my choice of words was not appropriate. I mean that not every
kernel dev is happy that kdbus is in the kernel now.
Noted...
Also, please don't CC me, I'm on the list...
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 5:52 PM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
On Tue, February 18, 2014 10:47, Alan McKinnon wrote:
On 18/02/2014 05:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
I used to use cherokee. Fast, light, awesome, and with a web admin.
The init script always failed me. /etc/init.d/cherokee
On Tue, February 18, 2014 12:54, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 5:52 PM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
On Tue, February 18, 2014 10:47, Alan McKinnon wrote:
On 18/02/2014 05:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
I used to use cherokee. Fast, light, awesome, and with a web
On Tue, February 18, 2014 12:17, Alan McKinnon wrote:
On 18/02/2014 11:52, J. Roeleveld wrote:
On Tue, February 18, 2014 10:47, Alan McKinnon wrote:
What I do run into is daemons that drop privs on start up, like
tac_plus. Unwary new sysadmins always try start/stop it as root,
causing
an
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 23:30:42 -0600
Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote:
[ snip ]
How can you be sure if something is large enough if, as you say
below, you do not care about probabilities?
By writing correct code?
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:54 AM, J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
On Sun, February 16, 2014 22:16, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote:
oh? I can pipe that output into cat or any any daemon I like? Doesn't
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 5:35 AM, Andrew Savchenko birc...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 19:09:40 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
How Integrated? The TCP/IP stack *is* integrated. But it is *protocol*
integration, *standards* integration not *software* integration. You do
want
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:46:14 +0800 Mark David Dumlao wrote:
init scripts, in general, are ad-hoc, quirky, and incomplete
implementations of service supervision in bash. They're reliable so
long as the daemon can be relied on to advertise one or all of its
processes in a pid file. Thing is,
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 18:35:34 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
[...]
Complexity means bugs.
Bugs get reported, bugs get fixes. Life goes on.
You didn't answered this, did you?
Bugs are different.
Bugs are bugs, period. And they get reported and fixed.
Bugs are not equal. They
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 04:05:03 +0200 Gevisz wrote:
I mean, I myself know a thing or two about computing and Linux, and I
promote systemd (and nobody pays me, BTW), but obviously you don't
need to believe in my credentials.
I have said you, he is just an unpayed fanatic systemd promoter!
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 23:30:42 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote:
[ snip ]
How can you be sure if something is large enough if, as you say below,
you do not care about probabilities?
By writing correct code?
Real world code
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Andrew Savchenko birc...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
Bugs are not equal. They differ in at least two dimensions:
significance depending on the component affected and severity of the
bug itself.
I've never said that they don't have different significance, severity
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 20:43:22 +0400
Andrew Savchenko birc...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 04:05:03 +0200 Gevisz wrote:
I mean, I myself know a thing or two about computing and Linux,
and I promote systemd (and nobody pays me, BTW), but obviously
you don't need to believe in my
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:43 AM, Andrew Savchenko birc...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 04:05:03 +0200 Gevisz wrote:
I mean, I myself know a thing or two about computing and Linux, and I
promote systemd (and nobody pays me, BTW), but obviously you don't
need to believe in my
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Andrew Savchenko birc...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 23:30:42 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote:
[ snip ]
How can you be sure if something is large enough if, as you say below,
you do
I'll try to be short.
On 18.02.2014 05:09, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
The whole point of creating new software is making things easier. Easier to
use, easier to maintain, easier to remove.
Well, systemd is easier to use after a little time learning how it
works. And it seems to be easier to
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 18:49:47 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
The whole deep integration approach and lack of
inter-module boundaries doesn't allow one to write replaceable blocks
without crazy hacking.
Well, then go and show them how it's done. And please don't say that
it's already
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Yuri K. Shatroff yks-...@yandex.ru wrote:
I'll try to be short.
[ snip ]
You, as a person declaring ability to code, must understand what
removal/substitution of components is important for.
In some cases it is; in some others it just creates a chaos, like it
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:22:23 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
Yet again, I respect ones right to use whatever one wants, but I ask
to respect mine as well. That's why I propose a separate systemd
profile for those willing to use it.
Then write. Just be aware that to write a systemd
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Andrew Savchenko birc...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:22:23 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
Yet again, I respect ones right to use whatever one wants, but I ask
to respect mine as well. That's why I propose a separate systemd
profile for those
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Andrew Savchenko birc...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 18:49:47 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
The whole deep integration approach and lack of
inter-module boundaries doesn't allow one to write replaceable blocks
without crazy hacking.
Well, then
On 2014-02-18 1:14 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Andrew Savchenko birc...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:22:23 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
Yet again, I respect ones right to use whatever one wants, but I ask
to respect mine as
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Hash: SHA256
On 02/18/14 17:56, Gevisz wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 23:30:42 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés
can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Gevisz gev...@gmail.com
wrote: [ snip ]
How can you be sure if something is large enough if, as
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
On 2014-02-18 1:14 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Andrew Savchenko birc...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:22:23 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
Yet
On 2014-02-18 1:54 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On
Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
I'm curious as to the extent of these programs, and to what extent
they *truly* require systemd.
I don't understand what you mean by the extent of
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:07:12 +0400, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
Then write. Just be aware that to write a systemd profile, you need to
use systemd.
Or to create a non-systemd profile :)
We already have many of those, because systemd is not the default. Part
of making it the default, if that
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 1:09 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
On 2014-02-18 1:54 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On
Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
I'm curious as to the extent of these programs, and to what extent
they
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:07:12 +0400, Andrew Savchenko wrote:
Then write. Just be aware that to write a systemd profile, you need to
use systemd.
Or to create a non-systemd profile :)
We already have many of those,
On 16.02.2014 21:56, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
Hello List.
and all are linked (not compilelink) in such a manner that you can't
just pick and choose. Oh no, you get the full treatment if you like it
or not.
A few weeks ago I wanted to see what systemd is really like so I started
a little
On Feb 18, 2014 3:05 PM, Sebastian Beßler sebast...@darkmetatron.de
wrote:
On 16.02.2014 21:56, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
Hello List.
and all are linked (not compilelink) in such a manner that you can't
just pick and choose. Oh no, you get the full treatment if you like it
or not.
A
Am Dienstag, 18.02.2014 um 14:09
schrieb Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org:
I can't for the life of me think of any reason that server daemons
like postfix, dovecot, apache, etc would or could ever *require*
systemd.
Neither of those packages would ever require systemd (nor any init
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