Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
Apparently, though unproven, at 06:27 on Tuesday 07 September 2010, kashani did opine thusly: On 9/6/2010 4:55 PM, Al wrote: Well that is the first advantage of a newsreader. It does not spam your mailbox. You select yourself what you want to read by the header. The other contents are never delivered to you, eat up neither traffic nor space. People don't really need to complain of to much traffic. I'd be interested in how many people still have access to a news server these days. I don't and I'm not particularly interested in having to pay for access when email works well enough. kashani There's a public news server on my work network. My team is supposed to maintain it. Shit, I'M supposed to maintain it. I have no idea where it is, what it is, how to log into it or even what it's hostname is. It's just there, in collective memory, as something that used to was and might still be. No member of the public has asked any question about it for years (I would know - I maintain the ticket queue that support mails for news would have to go into). And this is the largest business-serving network in the country (i.e. not some small minor player ISP). If that's not a damning indictment against news, then I don't know what is. I don't know who this fellow Al is, but he seems to have a stuck idea from 10+ years ago. Gentoo doesn't have a newsgroup probably because Gentoo users do not want one. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
[gentoo-user] emerge fails
Hi all, I want to rebuild my system and I need packages, so I always use this way to avoid unnecessary compiling (before I start rebuild I always delete all of packages). But, now I got this: sayusi-home sayusi # emerge -eavkt --deep --newuse --update world * IMPORTANT: 1 news items need reading for repository 'gentoo'. * Use eselect news to read news items. These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order: Calculating dependencies... done! Traceback (most recent call last): File /usr/bin/emerge, line 43, in module retval = emerge_main() File /usr/lib/portage/pym/_emerge/main.py, line 1678, in emerge_main myopts, myaction, myfiles, spinner) File /usr/lib/portage/pym/_emerge/actions.py, line 286, in action_build settings, trees, myopts, myparams, myaction, myfiles, spinner) File /usr/lib/portage/pym/_emerge/depgraph.py, line 5947, in backtrack_depgraph myaction, myfiles, spinner) File /usr/lib/portage/pym/_emerge/depgraph.py, line 5966, in _backtrack_depgraph success, favorites = mydepgraph.select_files(myfiles) File /usr/lib/portage/pym/_emerge/depgraph.py, line 1699, in select_files return self._resolve(myfavorites) File /usr/lib/portage/pym/_emerge/depgraph.py, line 1836, in _resolve self.altlist() File /usr/lib/portage/pym/_emerge/depgraph.py, line 3466, in altlist self._serialize_tasks() File /usr/lib/portage/pym/_emerge/depgraph.py, line 3649, in _serialize_tasks 'git' in replacement_portage.inherited): TypeError: argument of type 'NoneType' is not iterable sayusi-home sayusi # If I use this (upper) command without k it works properly. I rebuild all python packages, I ran revdep-rebuild but the result is same. Now, I don't know what is the problem Thanks for help in advance! András -- - - -- Csanyi Andras (Sayusi Ando) -- http://sayusi.hu -- http://facebook.com/andras.csanyi -- Bízzál Istenben és tartsd szárazon a puskaport!.-- Cromwell
Re: [gentoo-user] strange network problem
2010/9/7 路 xaoru2...@163.com: Hi ,everybody I've met a strang network problem.My gentoo Netbook can't access google and some other web sites after lying idle about more than half an hour's. But it can acesses other sites normally ,And can pinging ervery sites including google very well! The Only thing i can do is rebooting the system,and Network resume aftre that. I've googled a lot,and found nothing to solve this problem. :-( It borthered me a lot.Please help me! You should run wireshark and see what is happening when you are trying to access google. Best regards, Maciej Grela
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
I'd be interested in how many people still have access to a news server these days. I don't and I'm not particularly interested in having to pay for access when email works well enough. You don't have to pay for access. Everybody can can run his own server for his own groups. It's the same like running a mailinglist or running an apache. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tuesday 07 September 2010 10:47:49 Al wrote: I'd be interested in how many people still have access to a news server these days. I don't and I'm not particularly interested in having to pay for access when email works well enough. You don't have to pay for access. Everybody can can run his own server for his own groups. It's the same like running a mailinglist or running an apache. Al But then you need to configure your news-reader to grab the groups from all the different news-servers that are spread around the internet. How is that making things easier then a mailing list? Another reason why news-groups are not very usefull is that most news-servers (at least when I last used them) won't keep all the messages. I have this list (among others) archived on an IMAP-server for quick searching. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
Well, whether the headers are from an IMAP server or an NNTP server, they're still headers. It's my understanding that Thunderbird only point 1: Right, if you compare IMAP and NNTP it is similar in this. In NNTP it is the default to only read the header. In mail (IMAP, POP, HTML) it is the default to get it all deliverd. That strongly influences how the community as a whole feels about postings and discussions. It's not only about the single user. downloads everything in my mail folder because I tell it to. I could just as easily not tell it to, and only double-click on the messages that are interesting to me, and simply delete the rest. Since I'm trying to learn as much as possible about Gentoo (I've only been using Linux about a year or two), I choose to download it all, cause I'm going to read it all; I learn a lot from things that I don't even intend to use. point 2: That is the most important point. In NNTP you can download an read all postings from the past (with or without the body). You can search them, without the use of a search machine, directly from your reader. You don't need to discuss the same question again and again. In mail you can only read the postings from the moment you subscribed. Once you did loose them, your knowlage base is gone. to give the impression that I'm burdened by the amount of mail generated; if so, I'd simply unsubscribe. That is the feeling about postings in mail. In NNTP you would not feel this way. You would say that you read fewer of the postings. 1.) That's a separate discussion, one you'd have to take up with the Gentoo devs. You can ask if there's interested here, but I would think that's about as far as this mailing list could go with it. point 3: It would require one strong admin in the developers team, convinced itself of the advantages and with a missionary nature. 2.) It's been a while since I used newsgroups, but I thought you pointed your newsreader to a server that had the newsgroup in question, and then read it from there? If your news server doesn't have that newsgroup, you should ask for it? Other than that, I can't help; as I said, it's been a long time since I used it. point 4: You think of those big news providers, that serve many groups. I think of a gentoo owend news server, that only provides the gentoo groups, nothing else. You subscribe directly to that gentoo server, not to the newsserver of your provider. I didn't say I was advanced. But are you saying that using a newsgroup is really that different that using e-mail? You double-click I consider you advance if you use thunderbird and you know to use the options of IMAP. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
going Uh duh, why didn't I think of that or Thanks, I hadn't thought of that), or b) the subject is something so far off the topic of Gentoo I want to specially point out this. I think it a good habit, to say thank you. It motivates people to support and is always worth a posting. I also think it a good habit to summarize the result of a thread in a way, that makes it usefull for the archives. In a mailing list you experience such a postings as unnecessary load. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Shared libraries in Gentoo
When you say Gentoo, do you mean Portage? Remember Windows has a lot of limitations that WILL get in your way so dont be surprised when things break. I am specially interested in Gentoo because it is not another linux distribution, but an administration tool to build your own sources and it's scope is wider than linux. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Trying to configure alsa for INTEL HDA (ATI)
On 6 Sep 2010, at 14:12, Alan McKinnon wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 14:33 on Monday 06 September 2010, Nils Larsson did opine thusly: I did an alsaconf- and update-modules-reboot-cycle, but the only thing I get with alsamixer are four bars: master,pcm,capture,digital Seems a little too less for high definit audio, or ? But what is you're missing? S/DPIF? Headphone? Front? We have a. a mail loop b. a clueless user w.r.t. vacation settings Or this: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=timed+out+while+sending+end+of+data+--+message+may+be+sent+more+than+once http://tinyurl.com/3665ofj Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
In linux.gentoo.user, you wrote: On Tuesday 07 September 2010, Al wrote: I was trying to figure this out myself. I thought maybe I was missing something in the message. Maybe not. Isn't the list aggregated into that news site gmain or whatever its called? Then he can have it as a newsgroup. It's not the question how I read it, but a question how a majority of users can read and write to it. That influences the culture and athmosphere of communication. Also I think Volkers remark was very ironical else he should best go back to his dishes. Al up until today nobody ever mentioned news. Everybody was happy using mailing lists, forums or irc. I'm reading your message via a usenet server. linux.gentoo.user is the newsgroup. Replies of course go via the mailing list address. Or to phrase it differently: news is dying out quickly and gentoo never missed anything not having a newsgroups. Usenet is dying because it doesn't attract new users. The old ones are slowly dying out. If usenet dies I'll use something else. No problem. -- Regards, Gregory.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
It would be as simple as this: 1.) enter news.gentoo.org as news server to thunderbird 2.) select the groups you want to read 2 steps not more. That is far more simple than subscribing to a mailing list. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
I don't know who this fellow Al is, but he seems to have a stuck idea from 10+ years ago. Gentoo doesn't have a newsgroup probably because Gentoo users do not want one. My father hasn't internet at all and he doesn't miss it. There are even people that can't read. They don't miss it. There are devolopers that never used a version management. They think they don't want it. So what do you want to say? Gentoo is developers network not a rest home. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tuesday 07 September 2010 11:56:12 Al wrote: It would be as simple as this: 1.) enter news.gentoo.org as news server to thunderbird 2.) select the groups you want to read 2 steps not more. That is far more simple than subscribing to a mailing list. Al Except that then I need to do these 2 steps all the time and for every mailing list that I use. Usenet's strength was that all news-groups were accessible through all news- servers. By using different news-servers for different projects, this advantage is gone. Using mailing lists and IMAP, I can access the list from anywhere with an internet connection using webmail, IMAP-clients,... This way, I only need to subscribe to mailing lists once and only need to remember one set of account-details. With different news-groups, this list becomes too much to remember and maintain. And I am not aware of any news-reader that can handle multiple different news- servers easily without a news-proxy like leafnode sitting in between. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
Apparently, though unproven, at 12:05 on Tuesday 07 September 2010, Al did opine thusly: I don't know who this fellow Al is, but he seems to have a stuck idea from 10+ years ago. Gentoo doesn't have a newsgroup probably because Gentoo users do not want one. My father hasn't internet at all and he doesn't miss it. There are even people that can't read. They don't miss it. There are devolopers that never used a version management. They think they don't want it. So what do you want to say? Gentoo is developers network not a rest home. We've been here a while and no-one has voiced a desire for a newsgroup. Therefore there isn't one. You are new here and your desires appear to conflict with the overall group. See where we're going with this? -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
I'm reading your message via a usenet server. linux.gentoo.user is the newsgroup. Replies of course go via the mailing list address. Is that seamless? Can you directly reply to a posting? Easy to set up? How? Usenet is dying because it doesn't attract new users. The old ones are slowly dying out. If usenet dies I'll use something else. No problem. That the traditional usenet is dying, isn't surprising. It will be replaced by sozial networks, which offer far more features for sozial networking. But that is something different from having a dedicated news server for a technological project like news.gentoo.org. However that would make only sense, if it is fully synchronized with the existing lists. Else it would lead to an unnecessary split of the userbase. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On 09/07/10 01:55, Al wrote: 2.) It is not on a public available gentoo server. I first would need access to alt.os.linux.gentoo. I think if you want so run an maintain such a server, it would be welcome. 3.) It is not synchronized with the mailing list. It is. At least it was when i used it till a year or so ago.
Re: [gentoo-user] strange network problem
On Tuesday 07 September 2010 08:28:32 Maciej Grela wrote: 2010/9/7 路 xaoru2...@163.com: Hi ,everybody I've met a strang network problem.My gentoo Netbook can't access google and some other web sites after lying idle about more than half an hour's. But it can acesses other sites normally ,And can pinging ervery sites including google very well! The Only thing i can do is rebooting the system,and Network resume aftre that. I've googled a lot,and found nothing to solve this problem. :-( It borthered me a lot.Please help me! You should run wireshark and see what is happening when you are trying to access google. If you can ping, but not resolve domain names then it could have something to do with the DNS servers that you or your ISP are using. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge fails
On Tuesday 07 September 2010 07:29:31 András Csányi wrote: If I use this (upper) command without k it works properly. It probably means that some of your binary packages are out of date and need updating? I rebuild all python packages, I ran revdep-rebuild but the result is same. Did you also rebuilt your binary packages? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
2010/9/7 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org: Except that then I need to do these 2 steps all the time and for every mailing list that I use. Only once for the news groups of gentoo. Only one click to subscribe to a second group. Usenet's strength was that all news-groups were accessible through all news- servers. Usenet was the sozial network of the past. It has been replaced by something better in that function. By using different news-servers for different projects, this advantage is gone. Usenet is gone. The advantage of a projects newsserver is something very different. Easy to subcribe to and a full knowledge database of all discussions without switching to a browser. The problem is that people didn't learn how to do that at all. This way, I only need to subscribe to mailing lists once and only need to remember one set of account-details. But you have to set up filters for that account. With different news-groups, this list becomes too much to remember and maintain. news.*.org is possible to remember even for me -- and I am really bad in this. And I am not aware of any news-reader that can handle multiple different news- servers easily without a news-proxy like leafnode sitting in between. Thunderbird. There is no limit to severs you can subscribe to. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] strange network problem
Apparently, though unproven, at 12:40 on Tuesday 07 September 2010, Mick did opine thusly: On Tuesday 07 September 2010 08:28:32 Maciej Grela wrote: 2010/9/7 路 xaoru2...@163.com: Hi ,everybody I've met a strang network problem.My gentoo Netbook can't access google and some other web sites after lying idle about more than half an hour's. But it can acesses other sites normally ,And can pinging ervery sites including google very well! The Only thing i can do is rebooting the system,and Network resume aftre that. I've googled a lot,and found nothing to solve this problem. :-( It borthered me a lot.Please help me! You should run wireshark and see what is happening when you are trying to access google. If you can ping, but not resolve domain names then it could have something to do with the DNS servers that you or your ISP are using. If he can ping www.google.com then his domain resolution must be working fine. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tuesday 07 September 2010 12:51:36 Al wrote: 2010/9/7 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org: Except that then I need to do these 2 steps all the time and for every mailing list that I use. Only once for the news groups of gentoo. Only one click to subscribe to a second group. Per project, per list, per desktop... That becomes quite a lot of work. And there is at least one click to get to the subscribe-list. Then at least one click per list (or once for select all?) Then at least one click to confirm. Am counting 3 clicks here at least. And multiply that with all the desktops and projects. As opposed to configuring one IMAP-server per desktop and 1 webpage to remember for the webmail. Usenet's strength was that all news-groups were accessible through all news- servers. Usenet was the sozial network of the past. It has been replaced by something better in that function. I never considered usenet to be a social network. We had chat-software for that. (And no, I am not talking about ICQ, that came later) By using different news-servers for different projects, this advantage is gone. Usenet is gone. The advantage of a projects newsserver is something very different. Easy to subcribe to and a full knowledge database of all discussions without switching to a browser. The problem is that people didn't learn how to do that at all. How do you search through a newsserver without having to download all the messages in their entirety? The error-message someone might be trying to resolve may not even be in the subject, but in one of the replies. This way, I only need to subscribe to mailing lists once and only need to remember one set of account-details. But you have to set up filters for that account. Once per mailing list and the filters are included in my backups. If I need to reinstall a desktop for whatever reason, I need to re-add all the news-servers and news-groups... And I am not aware of any news-reader that can handle multiple different news- servers easily without a news-proxy like leafnode sitting in between. Thunderbird. There is no limit to severs you can subscribe to. And can these all be listed in the same list as my email? My email is sorted as such: INBOX |-Maillists |-project |- list Can thunderbird, or any other news-reader, plug the news-group-feed into my email like that? In the summary-page, I can easily view how many new messages there are per mailing list, I am used to working like that. But, like Norman Rieß said, if you want to maintain a news server that is fully synchronised with the mailing lists, I don't think anyone would try to stop you. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge fails
On 7 September 2010 12:46, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday 07 September 2010 07:29:31 András Csányi wrote: If I use this (upper) command without k it works properly. It probably means that some of your binary packages are out of date and need updating? Ohhh... really! :) I think it over once again. I started the rebuild Saturday and I had to stop and I wanted to (more than 400 packages are already build) continue yesterday but I forgot yesterday I did an sync. :) But here is my question: why can't handle portage this issue? It is an bug or an unimplemented feature? Ok, I know occurence of this case is less than rare. :) Thanks! :D -- - - -- Csanyi Andras (Sayusi Ando) -- http://sayusi.hu -- http://facebook.com/andras.csanyi -- Bízzál Istenben és tartsd szárazon a puskaport!.-- Cromwell
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: advice sought on new laptop for Gentoo
I paid the extra to get 16:9 @ 1920x1200. Best thing I ever did laptop-wise - I can get two webpages side by side on the screen looking very natural. Mind telling me what you got? The 1200 part sounds attractive to me. John Blinka
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: advice sought on new laptop for Gentoo
Apparently, though unproven, at 14:24 on Tuesday 07 September 2010, John Blinka did opine thusly: I paid the extra to get 16:9 @ 1920x1200. Best thing I ever did laptop-wise - I can get two webpages side by side on the screen looking very natural. Mind telling me what you got? The 1200 part sounds attractive to me. John Blinka Dell XPS M1530 with nvidia GeForce 8600M GT The machine is now 2 years ago so I reckon that nvidia has been superceded. But all the high end Dells have hi-res screens as an option. You won't find them on the budget and student ranges - those are cheap crap with hardware specs to match. I figure that just like a top-grade mechanic should be looking at SnapOns or similar in his toolbox, this here sysadmin also needs high quality tools. My chief tool is my notebook. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
Al writes: being comparingly new to Gentoo I still wounder why the classical heart of every open source community is missing, a public news server. At least a news server is not offically announced on http://www.gentoo.org/ like forums, IRC and mailinglists. (I can read some, not all of the lists via infosun2.rus.uni-stuttgart.de.) Well, there are mailinglists. But mailinglists send each message to everybody producing a lot of traffic overhead. As as result people are socially driven to reduce the amount of messages. The lists are dead early while IRC still is active. Hmm, ist this really true? We have good bandwith nowadays, even Dale has DSL now, so I don't care about the extra traffic this mailing list creates. When it's too much to read, or threads do not interest me, I mark them as read, as I would with my news client. I'm using IMAP, so as with news, only the headers are downloaded, and the body comes when I select it to read. This is fast enough these days, years ago I used pop3, and downloaded all new news messages completely and read them in my local copy to speed things up. Which I sill like to do for news and mail, because then I can do full text searches. What I am missing is more mailing lists. The gentoo-performance list hast just been closed due to too few traffic A pity, because now all those topics will show up here instead. Which would, to be true, not change a thing, because noone used gentoo-performance, but in an ideal world I think people would. But this is not an ideal world. Then there are some Gentoo web forums out there. Now that is really slow, moving tons of HTML for every single posting. Valuable information is scattered all around. I don't use the forums much. It's not about the traffic, but I miss threading - I don't like to read a dozen of pages of a discussion. But then, I often just google some search terms, and google finds relevant postings. Some from the forum, some from archives of the mailing list. Works quite well. Although it is crazy to have the information scattered around in all those different places, and I woud prefer to have all this in some newsgroups instead. But I don't care too much about this. Do we think intelligent people to limited to install a Thunderbird to read news, so that people are to driven to web forums like housewifes, that only know the web as webpages? No, but if people prefer the forums, even if there are better things, let them, you won't change their habits. Wonko
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
There is a simple solution for this: * Enter a bug report at bugs.gentoo.org (It is a web site and AFAIK has no usenet gateway). * Follow the bug there. * End the noise here. Thank you.
Re: [gentoo-user] How to fix circular dependency?
Ajai Khattri writes: OK, Ive managed to proceed a little further, but now Im encountering this: # emerge -uDtpvk world These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order: Calculating dependencies... done! !!! Multiple package instances within a single package slot have been pulled !!! into the dependency graph, resulting in a slot conflict: [...] Not sure what this message means? It means that portage wants to install both dev-php/PEAR-PEAR-1.9.0 and dev-php/PEAR-PEAR-1.6.2-r1 at the same time. I don't understand why, looks to me like it should keep you already installed 1.6.2-r1 version. Do you need to have this package in world? Does the conflict also happen if not? In case you are running portage 2.1, you might give 2.2 a try. It is better at resolving such stuff, but still fails sometimes. No more ideas, Wonko
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: advice sought on new laptop for Gentoo
On 07.09.2010 15:29, Alan McKinnon wrote: I figure that just like a top-grade mechanic should be looking at SnapOns or similar in his toolbox, this here sysadmin also needs high quality tools. My chief tool is my notebook. It's the weight not the price that is the deciding factor us. I guess depends on how much traveling you do. There is no one final ultimate answer. It depends. Labeling low res solutions as cheap crap was uncalled for. -- Eray
[gentoo-user] Re: Wine complains about Gecko
On 09/06/2010 07:32 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: When I try to launch a Windows program in Wine (1.3.2), an error dialog appears informing me that Gecko is not installed and the program might not work (which it doesn't). It has an install button there, but mentions that it would be better if the distro, Gentoo in this case, would offer it and install it from there. I believe the wine way to install gecko is by using winetricks: http://wiki.winehq.org/winetricks
Re: [gentoo-user] Wine complains about Gecko
On Tuesday 07 September 2010 04:32:11 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: When I try to launch a Windows program in Wine (1.3.2), an error dialog appears informing me that Gecko is not installed and the program might not work (which it doesn't). It has an install button there, but mentions that it would be better if the distro, Gentoo in this case, would offer it and install it from there. I can't find any such package in portage though. eix gecko only finds dev-dotnet/gecko-sharp and www-plugins/gecko-mediaplayer. You should enable the gecko USE flag on app-emulation/wine.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
Hi Alex, Hmm, ist this really true? We have good bandwith nowadays, even Dale has Take the previous posting of Albert Hopkins as best prove of that: quote * End the noise here. /quote So why does he read the thread, if he considers as noise? He could very simply ignore it using IMAP or NNTP. Obviously he has difficulties to handle the mailing list in the way you descibe below. I say it again, from my point of view such a mentality, pressing people to end a discussion, which has it's own thread, which is not evil in any way, which is interesting, is the direct result from prefering a mailing list over NNTP. That has a negative influence to activy and communication. People turn to IRC because of such social pressure. DSL now, so I don't care about the extra traffic this mailing list creates. When it's too much to read, or threads do not interest me, I mark Confirmed, the extra traffic isn't any problem at all today. Facebook and Youtube prove that. It is the feelings. What I am missing is more mailing lists. The gentoo-performance list hast just been closed due to too few traffic A pity, because now all those topics will show up here instead. Which would, to be true, not change a thing, because noone used gentoo-performance, but in an ideal world I think people would. But this is not an ideal world. Good example. I knew that from an NNTP based community two years ago. There were, probably there are a lot of living lists on that server. Once subcribed to the server it is absolutely easy to subscribe to a second list or third list. You get them all presented directly by your reader. No, but if people prefer the forums, even if there are better things, let them, you won't change their habits. Right, we can't change them, but we can't influence them by what we declare as official channels. Have you considered, that people may be excluded from the Gentoo community that are used to NNTP. Probable people with good skills in that special group? In the ideal world all those different channels would mirror the same database. But that would require some technological progress to synchronize without breaking the threads. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] strange network problem
At 2010-09-07，Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently, though unproven, at 12:40 on Tuesday 07 September 2010, Mick did opine thusly: On Tuesday 07 September 2010 08:28:32 Maciej Grela wrote: 2010/9/7 路 xaoru2...@163.com: Hi ,everybody I've met a strang network problem.My gentoo Netbook can't access google and some other web sites after lying idle about more than half an hour's. But it can acesses other sites normally ,And can pinging ervery sites including google very well! The Only thing i can do is rebooting the system,and Network resume aftre that. I've googled a lot,and found nothing to solve this problem. :-( It borthered me a lot.Please help me! You should run wireshark and see what is happening when you are trying to access google. If you can ping, but not resolve domain names then it could have something to do with the DNS servers that you or your ISP are using. If he can ping www.google.com then his domain resolution must be working fine. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com Thinks everyone: DNS woks well for me. i can ping www.google.com. Just can't access it in web-browsers without rebooting system.Sometimes I thought mybe it's the problem of Power.But now i doubt about it! Because even while I am watching videos online( about half an our) it happens. Here is the wireshark capture result:I don't know why there are so manay RTS. Seq=0 Ack=1 Win=5672 Len=0 MSS=1430 TSV=1581039706 TSER=40437152 WS=6 32,14.006920,192.168.1.102,64.233.181.113,TCP,57028 http [SYN] Seq=0 Win=5840 Len=0 MSS=1460 TSV=40490336 TSER=0 WS=6 33,15.045762,64.233.181.113,192.168.1.102,TCP,http 57028 [SYN, ACK] Seq=0 Ack=1 Win=5672 Len=0 MSS=1430 TSV=3738233147 TSER=40437152 WS=6 34,15.045788,192.168.1.102,64.233.181.113,TCP,57028 http [RST] Seq=1 Win=0 Len=0 35,15.063001,64.233.181.113,192.168.1.102,TCP,http 57028 [SYN, ACK] Seq=0 Ack=1 Win=5672 Len=0 MSS=1430 TSV=3738233315 TSER=40437152 WS=6 36,15.063027,192.168.1.102,64.233.181.113,TCP,57028 http [RST] Seq=1 Win=0 Len=0 wireshark.csv Description: Binary data
Re: [gentoo-user] strange network problem
On 7 sept. 2010, at 15:51, 路 wrote: Thinks everyone: DNS woks well for me. i can ping www.google.com. Just can't access it in web-browsers without rebooting system.Sometimes I thought mybe it's the problem of Power.But now i doubt about it! Because even while I am watching videos online( about half an our) it happens. Here is the wireshark capture result:I don't know why there are so manay RTS. Seq=0 Ack=1 Win=5672 Len=0 MSS=1430 TSV=1581039706 TSER=40437152 WS=6 32,14.006920,192.168.1.102,64.233.181.113,TCP,57028 http [SYN] Seq=0 Win=5840 Len=0 MSS=1460 TSV=40490336 TSER=0 WS=6 33,15.045762,64.233.181.113,192.168.1.102,TCP,http 57028 [SYN, ACK] Seq=0 Ack=1 Win=5672 Len=0 MSS=1430 TSV=3738233147 TSER=40437152 WS=6 34,15.045788,192.168.1.102,64.233.181.113,TCP,57028 http [RST] Seq=1 Win=0 Len=0 35,15.063001,64.233.181.113,192.168.1.102,TCP,http 57028 [SYN, ACK] Seq=0 Ack=1 Win=5672 Len=0 MSS=1430 TSV=3738233315 TSER=40437152 WS=6 36,15.063027,192.168.1.102,64.233.181.113,TCP,57028 http [RST] Seq=1 Win=0 Len=0 Since you are the one sending RESETs instead of ACKs, I'd use hping (hping -S -p 80 64.233.181.113) and check if the box also sends RESETs instead of ACKs using CLI, or with bash+nc : ( echo GET / HTTP/1.0 ; echo ; echo host:www.google.com ; echo ) | nc 64.233.181.113 80 If you can actually read google sources using that, your browser is to blame, or a plugin ? - Florian. / For security reasons, all text in this mail is double-rot13 encrypted. /
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoos community communication rant
covici at ccs.covici.com writes: Isn't the list aggregated into that news site gmain or whatever its http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user It's quite a nice interface. The only limitation, is posting large text files, like xorg.conf. Or u can use usenet news for reading and no posting. Both very searchable.
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoos community communication rant
Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon at gmail.com writes: We've been here a while and no-one has voiced a desire for a newsgroup. Therefore there isn't one. @tampabay.rr.com (BrightHouse) I use: isp5.newshosting.com There is a news group called: linux.gentoo.user linux.gentoo.dev (etc etc) they exist! hth, James
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: advice sought on new laptop for Gentoo
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com writes: On 2010-09-06, Allan Gottlieb gottl...@nyu.edu wrote: Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com writes: For a given height, a 16:9 display is 30% wider. I want nice tall display (prefereably at least 9-10) without having to increase the width beyond what a standard laptop style keyboard takes up (about 12-13 inches). It is certainly true that, if the height of the display is the key factor and hence fixed, a wider screen will add more inches (I again assume square pixels). However, those extra inches and resulting extra pixels are far from useless. I'm not saying that a wide display is useless. When it comes to desktop displays bigger is always better (in either axis). I'm saying I don't want to have to haul around a laptop thats 18 wide so that I can have a display that's tall enough to comfortably edit code on. OK if you don't edit code on your laptop. I believe you are selling two up short. No, I'm not. Two up is great on a desktop, where the extra width and weight aren't a penalty. Laptop size and weight are indeed a penalty. But you should assume that even on a laptop, common usage for some is to have 2-up either for code or course development When I am preparing a course, I have the html up in one (emacs) window and the resulting web page in another (firefox) window immediately to its right. Heck I very much use and enjoy 3-up on my large (30 2560x1600) monitor. We're talking about laptops. How would you like hauling around a 30 wide laptop? The first sentence was about 2-up and hence appropriate for laptops, indeed for my very own laptop that I bring to NYU every day I teach. My comment about the big monitor was to show that even 3-up is useful. I don't see where I suggested that 3-up would be available for laptops. Summary: 1. Extra width for 2-up is for me *very* useful in a laptop. 2. Specious arguments from a salesperson occur for all choices so don't seem to be a good criterion. allan
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoos community communication rant
Al oss.elmar at googlemail.com writes: But that is something different from having a dedicated news server for a technological project like news.gentoo.org. However that would make only sense, if it is fully synchronized with the existing lists. Else it would lead to an unnecessary split of the userbase. http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user Al, Do everyone a favor. Go use Gmane and tell us what exactly you'd be able to do that Gmane does not already do. It's archived, search-able (via keywords) and many, many other very cool features. Furthermore, if you hose a computer, you just jump on another machine with a web browser and search or get help. You first register your listserv account with gmane and then you can post to the list via gmane. very cool, try it, you just might like it! hth (and goodnight) James
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
Al oss.el...@googlemail.com writes: I don't know who this fellow Al is, but he seems to have a stuck idea from 10+ years ago. Gentoo doesn't have a newsgroup probably because Gentoo users do not want one. My father hasn't internet at all and he doesn't miss it. There are even people that can't read. They don't miss it. There are devolopers that never used a version management. They think they don't want it. So what do you want to say? Gentoo is developers network not a rest home. Many of us on the mailing list (e.g. me) have used newsgroups. I prefer the mailing list interface. I must say that emacs/gnus the distinction is blurred. All the gentoo-user mail goes to the gentoo-user group in gnus and thus doesn't clutter up my primary and course mailboxes I admit to having very good internet connectivity. allan
[gentoo-user] Re: Wine complains about Gecko
On 09/07/2010 04:32 PM, Nils Larsson wrote: On Tuesday 07 September 2010 04:32:11 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: When I try to launch a Windows program in Wine (1.3.2), an error dialog appears informing me that Gecko is not installed and the program might not work (which it doesn't). It has an install button there, but mentions that it would be better if the distro, Gentoo in this case, would offer it and install it from there. I can't find any such package in portage though. eix gecko only finds dev-dotnet/gecko-sharp and www-plugins/gecko-mediaplayer. You should enable the gecko USE flag on app-emulation/wine. It is enabled. It always was.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tuesday 07 September 2010 01:36:28 David W Noon wrote: Moreover, keeping this as a subscription-only mailing list keeps the spam count down. An equally important factor is prohibiting subscriptions from dynamically allocated IP addresses. This has caused me to spend money on a fixed address. -- Rgds Peter. Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.
[gentoo-user] Re: Wine complains about Gecko
On 09/07/2010 06:48 AM, Ajai Khattri wrote: On Tue, 7 Sep 2010, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: When I try to launch a Windows program in Wine (1.3.2), an error dialog appears informing me that Gecko is not installed and the program might not work (which it doesn't). It has an install button there, but mentions that it would be better if the distro, Gentoo in this case, would offer it and install it from there. I can't find any such package in portage though. eix gecko only finds dev-dotnet/gecko-sharp and www-plugins/gecko-mediaplayer. Gecko is part of Firefox. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecko_(layout_engine) Firefox is my main browser, so it's always installed.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoos community communication rant
Al, Do everyone a favor. Go use Gmane and tell us what exactly you'd be able to do that Gmane does not already do. It's archived, search-able (via keywords) and many, many other very cool features. I do you favour and confirm that it is a very cool web interface to newsgroups. It is especially usefull if you have to switch between machines. It is good that they mirror the gentoo mailing lists and give them an archive. As long as you work from the same desktop a classical newsreader seems still more comfortable to me. However, my concern was why the Gentoo community doesn't make use of those cool features and officially only advertises and keeps a mailing list, that has no history itself for example and how this approach influences and limits the culture of communication. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoos community communication rant
On 9/7/10, Al oss.el...@googlemail.com wrote: However, my concern was why the Gentoo community doesn't make use of those cool features and officially only advertises and keeps a mailing list, that has no history itself What do you mean by no history? http://archives.gentoo.org/ -- Arttu V. -- Running Gentoo is like running with scissors
[gentoo-user] 32to64 bit migration guide
Hi, Is there a user friendly guide or howto to help me to migrate my 32 bit gentoo to 64 bit without loosing my settings? Thank you Laszlo
[gentoo-user] Re: Re: Gentoos community communication rant
Al wrote: Al, Do everyone a favor. Go use Gmane and tell us what exactly you'd be able to do that Gmane does not already do. It's archived, search-able (via keywords) and many, many other very cool features. I do you favour and confirm that it is a very cool web interface to newsgroups. It is especially usefull if you have to switch between machines. It is good that they mirror the gentoo mailing lists and give them an archive. As long as you work from the same desktop a classical newsreader seems still more comfortable to me. However, my concern was why the Gentoo community doesn't make use of those cool features and officially only advertises and keeps a mailing list, that has no history itself for example and how this approach influences and limits the culture of communication. Gmane is actually not only a web interface, it *is* also a news server. Infact this posting is written from my newsreader ... - Jörg
[gentoo-user] Unable to set screen frequency
Hi all after upgrading KDE I cannot set the screen frequency. By default it is set to 50 Hz, but it should be 54 Hz. Every time I have to change it, but every time I start the PC the frequency is always at 50 Hz. This both as root and as user. Any tip? emilio
Re: [gentoo-user] 32to64 bit migration guide
SpaceCake writes: Is there a user friendly guide or howto to help me to migrate my 32 bit gentoo to 64 bit without loosing my settings? A similar question came up just yesterday, look for the 'Gentoo 32bit- 64bit: How?' thread. Wonko
Re: [gentoo-user] 32to64 bit migration guide
Apparently, though unproven, at 17:44 on Tuesday 07 September 2010, SpaceCake did opine thusly: Hi, Is there a user friendly guide or howto to help me to migrate my 32 bit gentoo to 64 bit without loosing my settings? Thank you Laszlo Forget it, don't even try. You might succeed, but it will not be worth the effort. You will complete the following steps in about half the time: 1. Back up /etc and anything else you want to keep 2. Reinstall 3. Set CHOST to something suitable 4. emerge -e world 5. Restore stuff from step #1 It's an interesting exercise to try and do the migration, people who like puzzles enjoy it. If your goal is to have a 64 bit system using the route of least pain, best to follow the path with lots of consensus around here - the one above. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tuesday 07 September 2010, Al wrote: It would require one strong admin in the developers team, convinced itself of the advantages and with a missionary nature. nobody likes people like that.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tuesday 07 September 2010, Al wrote: going Uh duh, why didn't I think of that or Thanks, I hadn't thought of that), or b) the subject is something so far off the topic of Gentoo I want to specially point out this. I think it a good habit, to say thank you. It motivates people to support and is always worth a posting. I also think it a good habit to summarize the result of a thread in a way, that makes it usefull for the archives. In a mailing list you experience such a postings as unnecessary load. Al there is no need for that. You can just SEARCH the archives. And there are a lot of them. From gentoo's own to MARC. So.. what does news bring to the table? More work? And what advantages? None at all. Strong points to support news. I see.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Shared libraries in Gentoo
On Tue, 7 Sep 2010, Al wrote: When you say Gentoo, do you mean Portage? Remember Windows has a lot of limitations that WILL get in your way so dont be surprised when things break. I am specially interested in Gentoo because it is not another linux distribution, but an administration tool to build your own sources and it's scope is wider than linux. Which doesn't actually answer the question... -- A
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoos community communication rant
On Tuesday 07 September 2010, Al wrote: Al, Do everyone a favor. Go use Gmane and tell us what exactly you'd be able to do that Gmane does not already do. It's archived, search-able (via keywords) and many, many other very cool features. I do you favour and confirm that it is a very cool web interface to newsgroups. It is especially usefull if you have to switch between machines. It is good that they mirror the gentoo mailing lists and give them an archive. As long as you work from the same desktop a classical newsreader seems still more comfortable to me. However, my concern was why the Gentoo community doesn't make use of those cool features and officially only advertises and keeps a mailing list, that has no history itself for example and how this approach influences and limits the culture of communication. Al wow, do you get paid for posting so much crap? 'Cool features'... 'no history', 'limits the culture of communication'. No, no and no. Wrong on all three. The mailing lists exist since the first days of gentoo. Almost all questions asked can be answered by a quick look into the archives. For some reason most people don't use archives. And the fucking same is true with news. The only 'advantage' of news are: more work for some poor sod responsible to keep the crap running.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: advice sought on new laptop for Gentoo
I don't know how well it works with Linux, but if screen estate really matters, has anyone looked at the Lenovo ThinkPad W700ds? I know pretty much every CAD person I know drools over it as a mobile workstation... RobbieAB
Re: [gentoo-user] How to fix circular dependency?
On Tue, 7 Sep 2010, Alex Schuster wrote: It means that portage wants to install both dev-php/PEAR-PEAR-1.9.0 and dev-php/PEAR-PEAR-1.6.2-r1 at the same time. I don't understand why, looks to me like it should keep you already installed 1.6.2-r1 version. Do you need to have this package in world? Does the conflict also happen if not? In case you are running portage 2.1, you might give 2.2 a try. It is better at resolving such stuff, but still fails sometimes. I decided to uninstall PEAR-PEAR to get past this (I figured I could always reinstall later after I finish all other updates). So far so good, thanks. -- A
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tuesday 07 September 2010, Al wrote: Gentoo is developers network not a rest home. and none of the developers or the users see a need for a news server. Btw, why are you talking about a 'developers network' and see a must have in a news server? As far as I can tell from that other thread you know zero about linux - which means you are not a dev. Which also means that you can keep the prosetelyzing to yourself.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tuesday 07 September 2010, Al wrote: Hi Alex, Hmm, ist this really true? We have good bandwith nowadays, even Dale has Take the previous posting of Albert Hopkins as best prove of that: quote * End the noise here. /quote So why does he read the thread, if he considers as noise? because he hopes that you finally shut up?
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoos community communication rant
On 2010-09-07, Al oss.el...@googlemail.com wrote: Do everyone a favor. Go use Gmane and tell us what exactly you'd be able to do that Gmane does not already do. It's archived, search-able (via keywords) and many, many other very cool features. I do you favour and confirm that it is a very cool web interface to newsgroups. Just as importantly, it allows access to mailing lists using NNTP clients. I read all mailing lists using slrn. I find the news paradigm vastly superior to the mail paradigm for following mailing lists. Once in a while I use it for web access as well, but that's rare. It is especially usefull if you have to switch between machines. It is good that they mirror the gentoo mailing lists and give them an archive. As long as you work from the same desktop a classical newsreader seems still more comfortable to me. I work from a variety of machines, and I still use the classical newsreader. I do keep my .newsrc files at a central location where they are used from all the machines where I run slrn. However, my concern was why the Gentoo community doesn't make use of those cool features and officially only advertises and keeps a mailing list, that has no history itself for example and how this approach influences and limits the culture of communication. I'm afraid you lost me there. Why does it matter where the archive is? -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! I just had my entire at INTESTINAL TRACT coated gmail.comwith TEFLON!
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
because he hopes that you finally shut up? Why do you read this thread and answer to it? Ignore it. When you think mailinlists such advanced, there is no reason to be disturbed by a discussion that doesn't stays inside it's thread. By your reaction you only underline the limitations of the mailing list approach. Al
[gentoo-user] Re: OT: advice sought on new laptop for Gentoo
On 2010-09-07, Robert Bridge rob...@robbieab.com wrote: I don't know how well it works with Linux, but if screen estate really matters, has anyone looked at the Lenovo ThinkPad W700ds? I know pretty much every CAD person I know drools over it as a mobile workstation... I don't know about that particular model, but Thinkpads have a pretty good reputation for Linux compatibility. I'd still rather have a 16 1600x1200 4:3 display than haul around the extra 3-4 inches in width. But I seem to be in the minority, so it's not going to happen... -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! Civilization is fun! at Anyway, it keeps me busy!! gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Al oss.el...@googlemail.com wrote: Jake [snip] Why say that lists are dead early? This list I find takes a certain amount of maintenance to keep up-to-date, otherwise it grows to an unmanageable number of e-mails in my Inbox. If anything, it's too Well that is the first advantage of a newsreader. It does not spam your mailbox. You select yourself what you want to read by the header. The other contents are never delivered to you, eat up neither traffic nor space. People don't really need to complain of to much traffic. [SNIP SNIP] Al You get the same advantage with some email accounts, if you use them right. For instance, this account on gmail is used for mailing lists only. Because it's gmail I can use filters to attach labels naming the list it comes from. Any spam that gets through will be in the minority that do not have a label attached, and I can ditch them forthwith. Because it's gmail, I have a private archive of all of my mailing lists going back to 2004, and I'm only using 35% of my (constantly increasing) 7.8GB allocation. If I want, I can search on this stuff without getting false positives from lists I don't subscribe to. I can also filter some mailgroups to go directly to the archive, so they only speak when spoken to. I use my ISP for personal mail, and a work account for work. My point: it's easier and more pleasant to find the right tool for the job, rather than complain about what anyone else is doing. For me, case closed and I can go back to doing what I want. -- Kevin O'Gorman, PhD
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Shared libraries in Gentoo
Apparently, though unproven, at 18:13 on Tuesday 07 September 2010, Ajai Khattri did opine thusly: On Tue, 7 Sep 2010, Al wrote: When you say Gentoo, do you mean Portage? Remember Windows has a lot of limitations that WILL get in your way so dont be surprised when things break. I am specially interested in Gentoo because it is not another linux distribution, but an administration tool to build your own sources and it's scope is wider than linux. Which doesn't actually answer the question... Gentoo is an idea, a community, an infrastructure. It is not code or a distro. To build something, you do not use gentoo, you use portage. To be accurate though, you use the EAPIs, which portage implements. And currently, even after a lot of hard work, the EAPIs are still in large part effectively defined as whatever portage does. So it really does come down to portage after all. Portage has a hard dependency on bash. portage is intimately wrapped up in the linux way of doing things. So unless you are someone who likes pain and/or likes massive porting efforts, portage (aka gentoo) has an effective scope that is pretty much linux and not much else. As evidence: the only non-linux port that went anywhere was on FreeBSD, now moribund for years. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 8:05 AM, Peter Humphrey pe...@humphrey.ukfsn.orgwrote: On Tuesday 07 September 2010 01:36:28 David W Noon wrote: Moreover, keeping this as a subscription-only mailing list keeps the spam count down. An equally important factor is prohibiting subscriptions from dynamically allocated IP addresses. This has caused me to spend money on a fixed address. -- Rgds Peter. Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23. Really? I pay because I have a use for a fixed IP, but if the above is your only reason, there are free email accounts to be had that can forward to wherever you like. I yet another gmail account like that for some specific sensitive traffic that I want semi-anonymous. I'm sure there are other free accounts that can do the same. Save your money for the things you really need. -- Kevin O'Gorman, PhD
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoos community communication rant
I'm afraid you lost me there. Why does it matter where the archive is? Sure, it is most important to have an archive at all. When using a newsreader the minimun I do is to scan the headers of the past, to avoid the discussion of a solved question. That is faster then openenig a webbrowser to search an archive. When subscribing to a mailinglist, I don't even know the topics of yesterday. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tuesday 07 September 2010, Al wrote: because he hopes that you finally shut up? Why do you read this thread and answer to it? Ignore it. I would, if you wouldn't put out a large percentage of emails arriving at my inbox. When you think mailinlists such advanced, there is no reason to be disturbed by a discussion that doesn't stays inside it's thread. By your reaction you only underline the limitations of the mailing list approach. no, you are babbling about a technology that is as much as dead and demand changes. For no good reason at all. With a newsreader I still would have to mark your postings as read. Or filter them out. Just like email. Face it. News has zero advantages.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoos community communication rant
On Tue, 7 Sep 2010 16:29:48 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: However, my concern was why the Gentoo community doesn't make use of those cool features and officially only advertises and keeps a mailing list, that has no history itself for example and how this approach influences and limits the culture of communication. I'm afraid you lost me there. Why does it matter where the archive is? Because trusting someone else to keep your archives puts you in their hands, which is probably why Gentoo maintain their own archives of these lists. -- Neil Bothwick If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
2010/9/7 Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com: On Tuesday 07 September 2010, Al wrote: because he hopes that you finally shut up? Why do you read this thread and answer to it? Ignore it. I would, if you wouldn't put out a large percentage of emails arriving at my inbox. Execellent. You give the best example why mailing lists influence communication in a negative way. You have difficulties to let some people stay in their own thread, beause it all goes through your inbox. You call that advanced? I don't. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoos community communication rant
Apparently, though unproven, at 18:48 on Tuesday 07 September 2010, Al did opine thusly: I'm afraid you lost me there. Why does it matter where the archive is? Sure, it is most important to have an archive at all. When using a newsreader the minimun I do is to scan the headers of the past, to avoid the discussion of a solved question. That is faster then openenig a webbrowser to search an archive. When subscribing to a mailinglist, I don't even know the topics of yesterday. Al Dude, Do you comprehend the simplicity of what folk here are telling you? We do not have a news service because we[1] do not feel we need one and do not desire one. Therefore it is *highly* unlikely there will be one. You can use gmane. 'kthanxforplayingbye Hardly anyone here is listening to you or taking you seriously, and here's why: You are self-confessed new to Linux and Volker already spotted by are likely new to Linux as well. You are not (yet) part of this community for real, and you have no street cred in this meritocracy. What you need to do now is - build up a posting history - to do that you need experience - to do that you need to ask and listen - then help others in turn I've been here for 4 years. I'm one of the conceited loud-mouths and I still get myself regularly bitch-slapped by people who are just as good as I am. From that position, I actually feel quite personally offended by your attitude. I've earned some of my attitude stripes. You have yet to begin. [1] In this context, we shall be understood to mean the majority, by common consensus -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Wine complains about Gecko
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@arcor.de wrote: When I try to launch a Windows program in Wine (1.3.2), an error dialog appears informing me that Gecko is not installed and the program might not work (which it doesn't). It has an install button there, but mentions that it would be better if the distro, Gentoo in this case, would offer it and install it from there. I have it on my system as part of wine. I can run wine iexplore and I get the WINE Internet Explorer and it can successfully load web pages. $ equery b /usr/share/wine/gecko/wine_gecko-1.0.0-x86.cab * Searching for /usr/share/wine/gecko/wine_gecko-1.0.0-x86.cab ... app-emulation/wine-1.3.1 (/usr/share/wine/gecko/wine_gecko-1.0.0-x86.cab)
Re: [gentoo-user] Wine complains about Gecko
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@arcor.de wrote: When I try to launch a Windows program in Wine (1.3.2), an error dialog appears informing me that Gecko is not installed and the program might not work (which it doesn't). It has an install button there, but mentions that it would be better if the distro, Gentoo in this case, would offer it and install it from there. I have it on my system as part of wine. I can run wine iexplore and I get the WINE Internet Explorer and it can successfully load web pages. $ equery b /usr/share/wine/gecko/wine_gecko-1.0.0-x86.cab * Searching for /usr/share/wine/gecko/wine_gecko-1.0.0-x86.cab ... app-emulation/wine-1.3.1 (/usr/share/wine/gecko/wine_gecko-1.0.0-x86.cab) And I will add that the actual wine gecko files that get installed are Windows files and will be located inside your wine directory at c:/windows/system/gecko/1.0.0/wine_gecko/
[gentoo-user] Re: 32to64 bit migration guide
Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon at gmail.com writes: Is there a user friendly guide or howto to help me to migrate my 32 bit gentoo to 64 bit without loosing my settings? Forget it, don't even try. You might succeed, but it will not be worth the effort. You will complete the following steps in about half the time: Follow Alan's advice and also use this page if you have an AMD system, or the appropriate page for Intel.. good hunting! James http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Safe_Cflags/AMD
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoos community communication rant
Hi Alan, You are self-confessed new to Linux and Volker already spotted by are likely I am self-confessed new to Gentoo, but I use Linux for over 10 years as my main OS. Still I don't have all the insight, what is going on under the hood. new to Linux as well. You are not (yet) part of this community for real, and you have no street cred in this meritocracy. What you need to do now is I've been here for 4 years. I'm one of the conceited loud-mouths and I still get myself regularly bitch-slapped by people who are just as good as I am. From that position, I actually feel quite personally offended by your attitude. I've earned some of my attitude stripes. You have yet to begin. I am not interested to offend you and I really don't want to discredet your merits. However, I think you should not take it personally when I express my opinion, that advertising a mailinglist only has it's influence to the discussion. How is that related to your merits? Then when you think a loud-mouth yourself, you shouldn't that quickly be offended. Right? We can all learn something from outsiders. If you take me more or less seriously, is not that import for me as I haven't 4 years of merit on this list. I take you seriously. I know what I can. I know what I contribute and contributed in other communities. Be calling the thread a rand I show that I am not taking the whole topic that seriously myself, but important enough to reflect about. Finally I really stay in one single thread tody, that I started and that has a lot of response. Everybody has the freedom to ignore this single thread and should not be bothered about. If that is not possible - see my theses. Al
[gentoo-user] Re: Wine complains about Gecko
On 09/07/2010 08:11 PM, Paul Hartman wrote: On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Nikos Chantziarasrea...@arcor.de wrote: When I try to launch a Windows program in Wine (1.3.2), an error dialog appears informing me that Gecko is not installed and the program might not work (which it doesn't). It has an install button there, but mentions that it would be better if the distro, Gentoo in this case, would offer it and install it from there. I have it on my system as part of wine. I can run wine iexplore and I get the WINE Internet Explorer and it can successfully load web pages. $ equery b /usr/share/wine/gecko/wine_gecko-1.0.0-x86.cab * Searching for /usr/share/wine/gecko/wine_gecko-1.0.0-x86.cab ... app-emulation/wine-1.3.1 (/usr/share/wine/gecko/wine_gecko-1.0.0-x86.cab) The file is here too. So I guess it's supposed to be installed manually by the user?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoos community communication rant
On 9/7/10, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: We do not have a news service because we[1] do not feel we need one and do not desire one. I thought it's because this is the Gentoo *users'* list, not the dev list? :) It doesn't matter whether we want it or not -- we users couldn't do much about an Official Gentoo nntp-server even if we wanted to. That requires (infra) dev access. Ergo, a user would most likely proceed by filing a bug report / feature request -- just like was suggested quite early on in the thread. -- Arttu V. -- Running Gentoo is like running with scissors
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On 9/7/2010 5:56 AM, Al wrote: It would be as simple as this: 1.) enter news.gentoo.org as news server to thunderbird 2.) select the groups you want to read 2 steps not more. That is far more simple than subscribing to a mailing list. You're skipping all the steps that start with Install nntpd and progress forward to Pay Network Bill.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Shared libraries in Gentoo
So it really does come down to portage after all. Portage has a hard dependency on bash. portage is intimately wrapped up in the linux way of doing things. Right, we have to say Bash. To be exact Bash is GNU not Linux. I genarally say Linux not Gnu-Linux. However in this case the difference matters. http://www.gnu.org/software/bash/ I run portage more or less sucessfully on Cygwins POSIX layer. Other people run it on Interix or Solaris. As evidence: the only non-linux port that went anywhere was on FreeBSD, now moribund for years. True. But FreeBSD isn't that popular like Windows, Mac or Linux. I think there is a future for second level managers that can be installed into multiple OS and yet set up the very same POSIX invironement. Having that you can build complex software that is portable. You don't depend on Java. You don't need to run a virtual server. Currently there are two canditates. One candidate is Cygwin Ports, the other one is Gentoo Prefix. Cygwin Ports just added cross-compilation features into the latest edition. Still Cygwin is limited to Windows. By this Cygwin Ports has done the first steps to become portable to Linux and Mac in future and it is already very mature on Windows. Gentoo Prefix is already able to run on Windows-Interix, Linux and Mac as second level manager, but it isn't that mature. Still it is not discovered by a bigger community. The potential is already there. So you finally can't say FreeBSD was the only port of Portage. But there is none that went to a major public. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoos community communication rant
Arttu V. wrote: On 9/7/10, Alan McKinnonalan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: We do not have a news service because we[1] do not feel we need one and do not desire one. I thought it's because this is the Gentoo *users'* list, not the dev list? :) It doesn't matter whether we want it or not -- we users couldn't do much about an Official Gentoo nntp-server even if we wanted to. That requires (infra) dev access. Ergo, a user would most likely proceed by filing a bug report / feature request -- just like was suggested quite early on in the thread. And I bet if a bug / feature request were filed, it would be closed as ain't going to happen. I know that doesn't exist but they may make that available for just this one purpose. I think Gentoo has more than enough communication methods already. Forums, the docs and a LOT of mailing lists. One more way is not going to help anything. If a person can't find a answer, either they ain't looking or it hasn't happened yet. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tuesday 07 September 2010 18:57:12 Al wrote: 2010/9/7 Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com: On Tuesday 07 September 2010, Al wrote: because he hopes that you finally shut up? Why do you read this thread and answer to it? Ignore it. I would, if you wouldn't put out a large percentage of emails arriving at my inbox. Execellent. You give the best example why mailing lists influence communication in a negative way. You have difficulties to let some people stay in their own thread, beause it all goes through your inbox. You call that advanced? I don't. Al If this were a news-group, your messages would still be filling up the list and we'd still need to filter out your messages. How do news-servers help keep the noise level down there?
Re: [SOLVED] Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird and IMAP folders
On 2010-09-02 3:43 PM, Jim Cunning jcunn...@cunning.ods.org wrote: It appears that the default configuration for MAXPERIP (maximum number of connections to accept from the same IP address) was set to 4. (I assume it's the default, since I never changed it myself.) Changing the value to 10 eliminated the Thunderbird problem entirely. I don't know if some other value between 4 and 10 would work as well. I'm happy with it as it is now. I ran into this a long time ago when I first set up our courier server... TB's default form 'Maximum number of server connections to cache is 5: Tools Account Settings Server Settings Advanced So, setting it to 5 would have been enough...
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
Al wrote: 2010/9/7 Volker Armin Hemmannvolkerar...@googlemail.com: On Tuesday 07 September 2010, Al wrote: because he hopes that you finally shut up? Why do you read this thread and answer to it? Ignore it. I would, if you wouldn't put out a large percentage of emails arriving at my inbox. Execellent. You give the best example why mailing lists influence communication in a negative way. You have difficulties to let some people stay in their own thread, beause it all goes through your inbox. You call that advanced? I don't. Al Can we just argue over the which came first, the chicken or the egg? o_O I seriously doubt there is going to be a news thingy for Gentoo, not unless you go make one yourself. So, why keep arguing over it? The people you are talking to can't set one up even if they thought Gentoo did need one. If you really feel that a news thingy is such a great idea, go to http://bugs.gentoo.org/ and file a feature request. THEY are the only people that can even set up what you want. Us users don't have access to the servers. You can make your argument as to why it must be had to them there. Posting anything here isn't going to make it happen. Not me, not Alan, not Volker or anyone else I saw on this thread can make this happen. Only YOU can go file the bug report and ask for it. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:10:03 +0200, Peter Humphrey wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant: On Tuesday 07 September 2010 01:36:28 David W Noon wrote: Moreover, keeping this as a subscription-only mailing list keeps the spam count down. An equally important factor is prohibiting subscriptions from dynamically allocated IP addresses. This has caused me to spend money on a fixed address. I post to this newsgroup using a DHCP address assigned by my ISP. My SMTP server connects directly to the Gentoo mailing list server. The filtering for this mailing list is done entirely on the email address in the From: header, and IP address is ignored. However, I do get connection refusals from some other SMTP servers. Since I am a cheapskate, I simply re-route such messages through my ISP's SMTP server; it adds up to an hour to the turn-around time, but it is free. I simply put the email address or domain name into /etc/postfix/transport and run: postmap transport postfix reload -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoos community communication rant
On 9/7/10, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: And I bet if a bug / feature request were filed, it would be closed as ain't going to happen. I know that doesn't exist but they may make that available for just this one purpose. As a long-time user I'm sure you've met Mr. and Mrs. van de Closed-Wontfix? Sometimes they capitalize their name differently, those ancient nobilities, like CLOSED-WONTFIX or so. The devs keep reintroducing me to them every time I try reporting something stupid. ;) Anyway, you're probably right that the devs might actually care even less than the users on this thread have. They'd first get us an Official Wiki, and IMHO that's probably what many users would really like to see. *Fingers crossed that they won't make it only dev-editable like some of them suggested/threatened.* -- Arttu V. -- Running Gentoo is like running with scissors
Re: [gentoo-user] 32to64 bit migration guide
Am 07.09.2010 18:05, schrieb Alan McKinnon: 1. Back up /etc and anything else you want to keep 2. Reinstall 3. Set CHOST to something suitable 4. emerge -e world 5. Restore stuff from step #1 It's an interesting exercise to try and do the migration, people who like puzzles enjoy it. If your goal is to have a 64 bit system using the route of least pain, best to follow the path with lots of consensus around here - the one above. Yep, did that back then with my main workstation, and now I take that nice exercise to migrate my thinkpad. I don't remember in detail how I merged /etc ... I now start building that system on top of a 64bit-VM-template I maintained for such purposes. Any ideas/hints? S
Re: [gentoo-user] 32to64 bit migration guide
Thank you. The reason to change to 64bit is maybe I'll have 8 GB instead of 4GB of memory. PAE is already enabled in kernel, so I have no problem accessing memory above 3Gbyte. Is there any performance increase can be expected if I spend my time on this migration/reinstall? Thanks Laszlo 2010/9/7 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com Apparently, though unproven, at 17:44 on Tuesday 07 September 2010, SpaceCake did opine thusly: Hi, Is there a user friendly guide or howto to help me to migrate my 32 bit gentoo to 64 bit without loosing my settings? Thank you Laszlo Forget it, don't even try. You might succeed, but it will not be worth the effort. You will complete the following steps in about half the time: 1. Back up /etc and anything else you want to keep 2. Reinstall 3. Set CHOST to something suitable 4. emerge -e world 5. Restore stuff from step #1 It's an interesting exercise to try and do the migration, people who like puzzles enjoy it. If your goal is to have a 64 bit system using the route of least pain, best to follow the path with lots of consensus around here - the one above. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Shared libraries in Gentoo
2010/9/7 Ajai Khattri a...@bway.net: On Tue, 7 Sep 2010, Al wrote: When you say Gentoo, do you mean Portage? Remember Windows has a lot of limitations that WILL get in your way so dont be surprised when things break. I am specially interested in Gentoo because it is not another linux distribution, but an administration tool to build your own sources and it's scope is wider than linux. Which doesn't actually answer the question... Yes, I mean Portage, with the Gentoo Prefix overlay and hence without the Linux kernel to be most precise. Gentoo Prefix lives on the second floor. However with that it leaves the scope of gentoo-user. For now I was interested to find out how it works in the standard case. From there I have to conquer the exotic worlds mostly on my own. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
If this were a news-group, your messages would still be filling up the list and we'd still need to filter out your messages. How do news-servers help keep the noise level down there? We go in circles here. NNTP is be default organzed in threads. You don't open a topic that you are not interested in, even if the thread has 500 messages. Nothing to filter. People already pointed out that you can do the same with IMAP, that gmail does the same in the web interface. People that use this features don't need to complain of to much noise. It is the rest that complaints of noise. With having mailing list as default way of communication this rest is bigger than necessary. End. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
- Original Message From: Al oss.el...@googlemail.com To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org 2010/9/7 Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com: On Tuesday 07 September 2010, Al wrote: because he hopes that you finally shut up? Why do you read this thread and answer to it? Ignore it. I would, if you wouldn't put out a large percentage of emails arriving at my inbox. Execellent. You give the best example why mailing lists influence communication in a negative way. You have difficulties to let some people stay in their own thread, beause it all goes through your inbox. You call that advanced? I don't. Doesn't have anything to do with the communications medium. Email or NNTP - this thread has become a rant by you for no other purpose than you own agenda. You're way off topic for this list, and the community has already responded to you multiple times. They've even pointed out how to get what you want through existing systems. Please listen to the community and heed their advice on this one. Otherwise you may just find yourself de-subscribed, blocked, or blacklisted (likely be individuals) and you won't ever get the advice you want/need. Ben
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
Can we just argue over the which came first, the chicken or the egg? o_O I seriously doubt there is going to be a news thingy for Gentoo, not unless you go make one yourself. So, why keep arguing over it? The people you are talking to can't set one up even if they thought Gentoo did need one. Arguing is thinking. Sometimes it worth thinking even if you don't expect a direct result. People wouldn't answer to this thread, if it wouldn't have any worth for them to think about. At least it's a way to estimate the overall situation. Only YOU can go file the bug report and ask for it. It's not done by filing a bug. It's not a bug anyway. Al
[gentoo-user] sudo-1.7.4_p3-r1
Just updated and noticed that the edict: #Reset environment by default Defaultsenv_reset is no longer in /etc/sudoers. A load of other (commented out) environment incantations were added. What is the importance of this? Do I need env_reset? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tue, 7 Sep 2010 20:31:18 +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote: How do news-servers help keep the noise level down there? If Gentoo had one, Al would STFU about it and traffic would halve! -- Neil Bothwick Know thyself. If you need help, call the C.I.A. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tue, 7 Sep 2010 21:38:59 +0200, Al wrote: Only YOU can go file the bug report and ask for it. It's not done by filing a bug. It's not a bug anyway. This is the clearest demonstration of your lack of understanding yet. -- Neil Bothwick It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tue, 7 Sep 2010 21:26:16 +0200, Al wrote: We go in circles here. NNTP is be default organzed in threads. Yes it is, just like email. It is the rest that complaints of noise. With having mailing list as default way of communication this rest is bigger than necessary. Who is this rest, I don't notice the massive groundswell of support for your claims. -- Neil Bothwick Znqr lbh ybbx! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
Only YOU can go file the bug report and ask for it. It's not done by filing a bug. It's not a bug anyway. Al Except that if you had the slightest bit of familiarity with the Gentoo community you would know that all wish-list items, infrastructure issues, and other such non-software bug issues are tracked through bugzilla. You have been told many times that the user community can do nothing for you. Please do file a bug and see how long it takes for it to be rejected by the devs. You are the only person who desires such a feature, and that means, in a nutshell, DIY or STFU... -D -- Support the mob or mysteriously disappear... I'm on flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/badcomputer/
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
Al wrote: Can we just argue over the which came first, the chicken or the egg? o_O I seriously doubt there is going to be a news thingy for Gentoo, not unless you go make one yourself. So, why keep arguing over it? The people you are talking to can't set one up even if they thought Gentoo did need one. Arguing is thinking. Sometimes it worth thinking even if you don't expect a direct result. People wouldn't answer to this thread, if it wouldn't have any worth for them to think about. At least it's a way to estimate the overall situation. Only YOU can go file the bug report and ask for it. It's not done by filing a bug. It's not a bug anyway. Al This shows you don't know how Gentoo works. If you want to add something to Gentoo, you file the request there whether it is a program, some neato feature you came up with or anything else. If they think it is a good idea, it will get discussed there, mostly by the devs. Arguing, talking, discussing it here is going to get you absolutely nothing. I don't think the people that can actually make a news thingy even read this list, tho there may be a few that do. Since posting here isn't going to get you what you want, why not file the request on the bug link and see what they say? You're not going to get anything any other way. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tuesday 07 September 2010, Al wrote: If this were a news-group, your messages would still be filling up the list and we'd still need to filter out your messages. How do news-servers help keep the noise level down there? We go in circles here. NNTP is be default organzed in threads. You don't open a topic that you are not interested in, even if the thread has 500 messages. Nothing to filter. emails too. But you still get the 'new mails' indicator. People already pointed out that you can do the same with IMAP, that gmail does the same in the web interface. People that use this features don't need to complain of to much noise. or pop. Noise is still noise. It is the rest that complaints of noise. With having mailing list as default way of communication this rest is bigger than necessary. End. nope. Wrong.
[gentoo-user] Re: How to fix circular dependency?
On Tuesday 07 September 2010, Ajai Khattri wrote: OK, Ive managed to proceed a little further, but now Im encountering this: # emerge -uDtpvk world When it's time to upgrade a large number of programs, it's better to take the task one step at a time, for example the following command: emerge -pu system Will (tell you to) upgrade a little subset, it'll less likely get stuck on circular deps and will upgrade the more important programs first. HTH Francesco -- Linux Version 2.6.35-gentoo-r5, Compiled #1 SMP PREEMPT Sat Aug 28 12:20:05 CEST 2010 Two 1GHz AMD Athlon 64 Processors, 4GB RAM, 4019.06 Bogomips Total aemaeth
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
person who desires such a feature, and that means, in a nutshell, DIY OK, I put it onto my DIY list. :-) Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: advice sought on new laptop for Gentoo
On 07/09/10 23:11, Eray Aslan wrote: On 07.09.2010 15:29, Alan McKinnon wrote: I figure that just like a top-grade mechanic should be looking at SnapOns or similar in his toolbox, this here sysadmin also needs high quality tools. My chief tool is my notebook. It's the weight not the price that is the deciding factor us. I guess depends on how much traveling you do. There is no one final ultimate answer. It depends. Labeling low res solutions as cheap crap was uncalled for. He didn't say low res = cheap crap. He said student and budget ranges were cheap crap. Our execs like smaller laptops (not netbooks) that are easier to use on airplanes that, because of the smaller screen size, have lower resolutions. That's not to say they're cheap crap; just because they're small doesn't mean they're no good. Jake Moe
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Wine complains about Gecko
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@arcor.de wrote: On 09/07/2010 08:11 PM, Paul Hartman wrote: On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Nikos Chantziarasrea...@arcor.de wrote: When I try to launch a Windows program in Wine (1.3.2), an error dialog appears informing me that Gecko is not installed and the program might not work (which it doesn't). It has an install button there, but mentions that it would be better if the distro, Gentoo in this case, would offer it and install it from there. I have it on my system as part of wine. I can run wine iexplore and I get the WINE Internet Explorer and it can successfully load web pages. $ equery b /usr/share/wine/gecko/wine_gecko-1.0.0-x86.cab * Searching for /usr/share/wine/gecko/wine_gecko-1.0.0-x86.cab ... app-emulation/wine-1.3.1 (/usr/share/wine/gecko/wine_gecko-1.0.0-x86.cab) The file is here too. So I guess it's supposed to be installed manually by the user? I believe it should install automatically (when it gives you the message about it not being installed). I don't remember ever having to do anything special. I wonder if you rename your .wine directory start with a fresh wine configuration if it will work then? Otherwise, this appears to have the manual installation instructions: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3911037postcount=4 Good luck :)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Shared libraries in Gentoo
Apparently, though unproven, at 20:15 on Tuesday 07 September 2010, Al did opine thusly: So it really does come down to portage after all. Portage has a hard dependency on bash. portage is intimately wrapped up in the linux way of doing things. Right, we have to say Bash. To be exact Bash is GNU not Linux. I genarally say Linux not Gnu-Linux. However in this case the difference matters. http://www.gnu.org/software/bash/ I fail to see how this is relevant. Portage requires bash, not sh. It is utterly irrelevant what the licensing and political implications are for bash, the technical fact is that portage *requires* Chet's app. To be fair to portage, it's not portage itself that requires it, it's the ebuilds. But ebuilds are the dedicated input format to portage and the two are inextricably linked. I run portage more or less sucessfully on Cygwins POSIX layer. Other people run it on Interix or Solaris. As evidence: the only non-linux port that went anywhere was on FreeBSD, now moribund for years. True. But FreeBSD isn't that popular like Windows, Mac or Linux. So you don't work at a Tier 1 ISP then? FreeBSD rules that space. I get hugely better performance out of Postfix on FreeBSD than on Linux - all other ISPs in this country concur. I think there is a future for second level managers that can be installed into multiple OS and yet set up the very same POSIX invironement. Having that you can build complex software that is portable. You don't depend on Java. You don't need to run a virtual server. Currently there are two canditates. One candidate is Cygwin Ports, the other one is Gentoo Prefix. Cygwin Ports just added cross-compilation features into the latest edition. Still Cygwin is limited to Windows. By this Cygwin Ports has done the first steps to become portable to Linux and Mac in future and it is already very mature on Windows. Gentoo Prefix is already able to run on Windows-Interix, Linux and Mac as second level manager, but it isn't that mature. Still it is not discovered by a bigger community. The potential is already there. The benefits of a source-based distro are many and have been covered extensively elsewhere. gentoo.org lists most of them in a accurate fashion. I never said porting portage could not be done, I said it would be hard work. So you finally can't say FreeBSD was the only port of Portage. But there is none that went to a major public. I don't see the point of portage on FreeBSD frankly, considering the general use-case where FreeBSD shines. ports is more than adequate for that and I don't need the maintenance overhead of portage on machines requiring weekly updates. I don't build embedded systems or need highly customized OSes. In fact, portage is complete overkill and I refuse to allow it to be deployed at work. Check my posting history for the rationale behind this. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoos community communication rant
Apparently, though unproven, at 20:52 on Tuesday 07 September 2010, Arttu V. did opine thusly: On 9/7/10, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: And I bet if a bug / feature request were filed, it would be closed as ain't going to happen. I know that doesn't exist but they may make that available for just this one purpose. As a long-time user I'm sure you've met Mr. and Mrs. van de Closed-Wontfix? Sometimes they capitalize their name differently, those ancient nobilities, like CLOSED-WONTFIX or so. The devs keep reintroducing me to them every time I try reporting something stupid. ;) I must be special then. I keep hearing about his other fellow instead - Mr. NOTABUG Anyway, you're probably right that the devs might actually care even less than the users on this thread have. They'd first get us an Official Wiki, and IMHO that's probably what many users would really like to see. *Fingers crossed that they won't make it only dev-editable like some of them suggested/threatened.* -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
