[gentoo-user] Re: Assistance if possible
On 18/03/12 06:15, Colleen Beamer wrote: However, activitymanager can't be reinstalled because there isn't an upgrade to 4.8.1. Since I went about things the way I did, I can't get this package installed because everything else is upgraded to 4.8.1 and activitymanager's latest version is 4.7.4. I've done revdep-rebuild and everything is fine there. Can I function without this package until I can get it upgraded to the same level as everything else on my system? Is there something that pulls activitymanager as a dependency? Why do you want to install it? Does portage try to install it automatically? If not, you don't need it. If yes, use the -t option of emerge to see which package is trying to pull it.
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 11:57 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: On March 17, 2012 at 8:43 PM Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: snip initramfs side of things. I did have to use one to bring up my server with / on a RAID6, not because I needed it long term but in the short term I couldn't determine how mdadm was numbering the RAID so that I could get grub.conf correct. I'm somehow a bot worried something is going to slip by the devs and I'd be better off having an initramfs already running on the box when I do allow the upgrades. Planning on giving Dracut a try. Thanks, Mark The real short of this is that if you use 0.90 superblocks, and /boot on it's own little partition, your kernel can assembly your RAIDwhateverlevel without an initrd image. You will reboot with the /dev/md0 you created as /dev/md0. And unless you have partitions (or is it single drives) over 2TB, you can use metadata=0.90. As they say, Works For Me (R). I've yet to read a simple explanation of HOW-TO do this in a Gentoo doc (not that it doesn't exist), but you can follow this very simple README_RAID used in Slackware to build them on Gentoo: http://slackware.oregonstate.edu/slackware64-current/README_RAID.TXT I recall reading on this list a week or two ago that kernel autoassembly of 0.90 arrays was deprecated. :( -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On March 18, 2012 at 2:30 AM Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 11:57 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: On March 17, 2012 at 8:43 PM Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: snip initramfs side of things. I did have to use one to bring up my server with / on a RAID6, not because I needed it long term but in the short term I couldn't determine how mdadm was numbering the RAID so that I could get grub.conf correct. I'm somehow a bot worried something is going to slip by the devs and I'd be better off having an initramfs already running on the box when I do allow the upgrades. Planning on giving Dracut a try. Thanks, Mark The real short of this is that if you use 0.90 superblocks, and /boot on it's own little partition, your kernel can assembly your RAIDwhateverlevel without an initrd image. You will reboot with the /dev/md0 you created as /dev/md0. And unless you have partitions (or is it single drives) over 2TB, you can use metadata=0.90. As they say, Works For Me (R). I've yet to read a simple explanation of HOW-TO do this in a Gentoo doc (not that it doesn't exist), but you can follow this very simple README_RAID used in Slackware to build them on Gentoo: http://slackware.oregonstate.edu/slackware64-current/README_RAID.TXT I recall reading on this list a week or two ago that kernel autoassembly of 0.90 arrays was deprecated. :( -- :wq Works on my computers. -- Happy Penguin Computers`) 126 Fenco Drive( \ Tupelo, MS 38801^^ 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 support at happypenguincomputers dot com http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 10:17 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: On March 17, 2012 at 10:57 PM Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: On March 17, 2012 at 8:48 PM Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote: Hello, Nikos. On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon. No, we don't. I hope systemd arrives soon. It's the best init system I ever saw. What's so good about it? What will it do for me? I have this horrible sneaking suspicion that it will be more complicated than /sbin/init + OpenRC, just like udev + initramfs is more complicated than udev, and CUPS is more complicated than classical lpr. Why do you find it so good? No idea. I only posted this because the OP didn't say what's bad about systemd :-) I really don't know I should care whether my system runs OpenRC or systemd. I'm the OP, and often I don't know how to express myself. It is my understanding that systemd is going to force an initramfs on you even if you only have / and no other partitions. (Could it be initrd and not initramfs?) I'm all for automounting a device when it's plugged in, if that's what the user chooses. But for me, with my workstation, laptop, wife's PC and daughter's laptop -- we just don't need or care for it. Seems a shame to be using udev and then have to completely change your system when 181 comes out, or freeze it at . Therefore, we don't install anything to automount devices. We have lines such as these in fstab: UUID=6C5F-3742 /Libby-Vivitar vfat noauto,users,rw,gid=100,dmask=0002,fmask=0113 0 0 for those devices we own. When we get a new device, we add a new line. We don't use a DE either, just Fluxbox. The bottom line is that I don't like things being forced on me (hint, get the vaseline, they're on the way!) And I don't like upstream forcing such nefarious changes on the distros. And for the Lennart fanboi, his coding is so questionable that Lennartware has become derogatory slang. (Of course, you already know that.) No need to get personal man, relax. I disagree ... there's every reason to get personal. Not getting personal doesn't assign the blame. Men stand up and take responsibility for their actions. You called me Lennart fanboi. That wasn't personal? I'm getting my PhD in Computer Science snip I got my PhD in life before your parents met. So what? Just saying... I'm not bragging; I just explained my credentials as to why I say that Lennart's code is actually quite good. Because I have actually studied it, besides tried it. Have you? And, are you gonna keep saying you are not getting personal, by the way? So again, please, [citation needed]. You still haven't provided any reference to support your claim that Lennart's code (specifically systemd's code) is poorly done. Mate, have you heard of the world wide web? The internet? And the Internet has always the same opinion. And it's never wrong. Seriously, mate ... are you his boyfriend, on his payroll, related, or what? No, I don't even know him. Are you gonna keep saying you are not getting personal, by the way? You search LKML for yourself. I've been there since 2003 and have numerous memories. Me too. Lennart has actually code accepted into the Linux Kernel, and he's a member of the Linux Kernel Plumbers. How's that as proof of the quality of his code? How about: http://www.change.org/petitions/lennart-poettering-stop-writing-useless-programs-systemd-journal Really? A petition on-line? With 235 votes? That's the best reference you can present? On one side, we have a guy whose code is included in all the levels on the stack, from kernel to end-user application. On the other, we have an open internet petition with 235 votes. Yeah, I'm gonna side with the on-line poll. Sorry, mate ... many of us here are allergic to FUD :-)} I would say that you are allergic to Lennart's work. But I'm pretty sure that you haven't take the time at least once to actually study it or at least try it, and given the level of discussion you present, I'm starting to think you don't actually have the capacity to study it. So, in that sense, the one spreading the FUD is you. All I keep saying is that I use systemd (and udev, and GNOME 3), and that I like it, and that I agree with the technical decisions behind it. That's it. Of course you don't have to agree with me (as I don't agree with you). But at least I'm not resort to name-calling, and I actually have tried (and studied) both systemd and OpenRC (which is the topic of this particular branch of the thread we are in). I'm out of this thread. As always, I give my opinion, do whatever you want with it.
Re: [gentoo-user] mdev for udev substitution instructions web page is up
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 11:37:49PM +0100, Sebastian Pipping wrote On 03/17/2012 03:51 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: The page will be permanently under construction, i.e. evolving as we find out more about how mdev works. Unless you want to maintain total control of the data flow I would suggest turning that page into a new wiki page at https://wiki.gentoo.org/ to ease contribution to others and to increase availability and accessibility of that content. Probably the best thing to do in the long run. I've never done any wiki editing/posting, so I'll take a day or 2 to read up on it. The help page looks rather complex. Or are there any volunteers here who can copy the contents of the web page to a wiki page? I'll gladly change my webpage to a pointer to the wiki page. On a tangent, is that a better tutorial on wiki pages anywhere? -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:26 AM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: On March 18, 2012 at 2:30 AM Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 11:57 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: On March 17, 2012 at 8:43 PM Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: snip initramfs side of things. I did have to use one to bring up my server with / on a RAID6, not because I needed it long term but in the short term I couldn't determine how mdadm was numbering the RAID so that I could get grub.conf correct. I'm somehow a bot worried something is going to slip by the devs and I'd be better off having an initramfs already running on the box when I do allow the upgrades. Planning on giving Dracut a try. Thanks, Mark The real short of this is that if you use 0.90 superblocks, and /boot on it's own little partition, your kernel can assembly your RAIDwhateverlevel without an initrd image. You will reboot with the /dev/md0 you created as /dev/md0. And unless you have partitions (or is it single drives) over 2TB, you can use metadata=0.90. As they say, Works For Me (R). I've yet to read a simple explanation of HOW-TO do this in a Gentoo doc (not that it doesn't exist), but you can follow this very simple README_RAID used in Slackware to build them on Gentoo: http://slackware.oregonstate.edu/slackware64-current/README_RAID.TXT I recall reading on this list a week or two ago that kernel autoassembly of 0.90 arrays was deprecated. :( -- :wq Works on my computers. And mine. But 'deprecated' means 'this may go away in the future'. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com writes: * Really simple service unit files: The service unit files are really small, really simple, really easy to understand/modify. Compare the 9 lines of sshd.service: $ cat /etc/systemd/system/sshd.service [Unit] Description=SSH Secure Shell Service After=syslog.target [Service] ExecStart=/usr/sbin/sshd -D [Install] WantedBy=multi-user.target with the 84 of /etc/init.d/sshd (80 without comments). But the 80 lines of /etc/init.d/sshd do a lot more than just and stop the service. They ensure that there is an sshd configuration file and give a meaningful message (including where to find the sample) if it is not present, and check for the presence of the hostkeys (again which are needed) and create them if they are not present. Your 9 lines of sshd.service do none of this.
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
For more information on why this has been done, see the following URL: http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken s/separate-usr/systemd and udev/ Too bad I'm not a developer. If udev and systemd become mandatory on Gentoo, I'll seriously consider LFS (Linux From Scratch). Maybe even BSD. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and permissions problems
Here's a update on this mess. I resynced and did the updates. One of the packages was shadow. There was some others that I don't think is related. So, after that it worked. I had booted WITH NO init thingy. So, after making sure it was working and I was sane again, I rebooted WITH the init thingy. It failed every time. Think it was a fluke huh? I rebooted WITHOUT the init thingy, works like a champ with no issues at all. It does so every time. As most know, I'm not a init thingy expert but could someone explain to me why it works when I boot without the init thingy but fails with it? I used dracut to build it. Also, I boot the exact same kernel each time. I don't mean the same version, I mean the EXACT SAME FILE. I just remove the init line from grub so that it doesn't load the init thingy. Why is this happening? Any ideas? Bug maybe? Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words! Miss the compile output? Hint: EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--quiet-build=n
Re: [gentoo-user] mdev for udev substitution instructions web page is up
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:29 AM, Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 11:37:49PM +0100, Sebastian Pipping wrote On 03/17/2012 03:51 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: The page will be permanently under construction, i.e. evolving as we find out more about how mdev works. Unless you want to maintain total control of the data flow I would suggest turning that page into a new wiki page at https://wiki.gentoo.org/ to ease contribution to others and to increase availability and accessibility of that content. Probably the best thing to do in the long run. I've never done any wiki editing/posting, so I'll take a day or 2 to read up on it. The help page looks rather complex. Or are there any volunteers here who can copy the contents of the web page to a wiki page? I'll gladly change my webpage to a pointer to the wiki page. First stab: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Mdev I don't know the Gentoo wiki's style policies, but I do know MediaWiki reasonably well. I did take license to edit for language/linguistic style, but not for substantive comment. Please go through and correct anything that seems broken. It's almost 4:30AM where I am, and I really ought to be sleeping, so I almost certainly mussed something up. Pretty sure I switched styles about halfway through, too. You should find the MediaWiki syntax reasonably accessible; just click 'edit' at the top of the page and compare what the 'raw' form looks like with what the results look like. On a tangent, is that a better tutorial on wiki pages anywhere? MediaWiki.org has the best content. Generally, you'd play around in a sandbox page of your own (on whatever wiki site you have an account on) to get a feel for things. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] mdev for udev substitution instructions web page is up
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 4:38 AM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:29 AM, Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 11:37:49PM +0100, Sebastian Pipping wrote On 03/17/2012 03:51 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: The page will be permanently under construction, i.e. evolving as we find out more about how mdev works. Unless you want to maintain total control of the data flow I would suggest turning that page into a new wiki page at https://wiki.gentoo.org/ to ease contribution to others and to increase availability and accessibility of that content. Probably the best thing to do in the long run. I've never done any wiki editing/posting, so I'll take a day or 2 to read up on it. The help page looks rather complex. Or are there any volunteers here who can copy the contents of the web page to a wiki page? I'll gladly change my webpage to a pointer to the wiki page. First stab: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Mdev I don't know the Gentoo wiki's style policies, but I do know MediaWiki reasonably well. I did take license to edit for language/linguistic style, but not for substantive comment. Please go through and correct anything that seems broken. It's almost 4:30AM where I am, and I really ought to be sleeping, so I almost certainly mussed something up. Pretty sure I switched styles about halfway through, too. You should find the MediaWiki syntax reasonably accessible; just click 'edit' at the top of the page and compare what the 'raw' form looks like with what the results look like. On a tangent, is that a better tutorial on wiki pages anywhere? MediaWiki.org has the best content. Generally, you'd play around in a sandbox page of your own (on whatever wiki site you have an account on) to get a feel for things. BTW, where would one go to get involved in organization of the wiki? I found myself wishing for templates for consistent formatting of things like files, one-liners and naming of ebuilds, but I don't think I ought to simply create the templates I'm looking for without talking with someone first. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 2:02 AM, Graham Murray gra...@gmurray.org.uk wrote: Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com writes: * Really simple service unit files: The service unit files are really small, really simple, really easy to understand/modify. Compare the 9 lines of sshd.service: $ cat /etc/systemd/system/sshd.service [Unit] Description=SSH Secure Shell Service After=syslog.target [Service] ExecStart=/usr/sbin/sshd -D [Install] WantedBy=multi-user.target with the 84 of /etc/init.d/sshd (80 without comments). But the 80 lines of /etc/init.d/sshd do a lot more than just and stop the service. Yes, it does. They ensure that there is an sshd configuration file and give a meaningful message (including where to find the sample) if it is not present, and check for the presence of the hostkeys (again which are needed) and create them if they are not present. Your 9 lines of sshd.service do none of this. That is completely true. I also think that those checks does not belong into the init script: I think the configuration file presence should be guarantee by the package manager at install time, and so the creation of the hostkeys. Having said that, systemd provides ConditionPathExists, which allows you to set a file as necessary for a service execution. So my 9 lines transform into $ cat /etc/systemd/system/sshd.service [Unit] Description=SSH Secure Shell Service After=syslog.target ConditionPathExists=/etc/ssh/sshd_config [Service] ExecStart=/usr/sbin/sshd -D [Install] WantedBy=multi-user.target If the config file doesn't exists, the service will not start, and you can check the reason why with systemctl status sshd.service And of course you can set another mini sevice unit file to create the hostkeys. But I repeat: I think those tasks belong into the package manager, no the init script. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
[gentoo-user] I get trouble with my bcm4312 wl card!
Hi~ I drive my bcm4312 by module b43 and firmware , learned from http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43 It is drive successfully, but when I start my openvpn , it looks like that the kernel is crashed. The kernel log : [13446.745188] sched: RT throttling activated [15653.842657] tun: Universal TUN/TAP device driver, 1.6 [15653.842661] tun: (C) 1999-2004 Max Krasnyansky m...@qualcomm.com [15653.843275] BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at (null) [15653.843282] IP: [815605c3] __dev_get_by_name+0x73/0xd0 [15653.843289] PGD 169d8067 PUD 78dcb067 PMD 0 [15653.843294] Oops: [#1] SMP [15653.843297] CPU 0 [15653.843299] Modules linked in: tun uvcvideo nvidia(P) b43 mac80211 i2c_i801 i2c_core intel_agp intel_gtt agpgart video bcma ssb ideapad_laptop [last unloaded: uvcvideo] [15653.843312] [15653.843314] Pid: 9677, comm: openvpn Tainted: P O 3.2.9-gentoo-Shelley #1 LENOVO IdeaPad Y450/KL1 [15653.843321] RIP: 0010:[815605c3] [815605c3] __dev_get_by_name+0x73/0xd0 [15653.843325] RSP: 0018:880016da3da8 EFLAGS: 00010246 [15653.843328] RAX: RBX: 8800798f08d0 RCX: [15653.843330] RDX: 880016da3e08 RSI: RDI: 880016da3e08 [15653.84] RBP: 880016da3dc8 R08: R09: [15653.843335] R10: R11: 0001 R12: 880078a83400 [15653.843338] R13: 880016da3e08 R14: 400454ca R15: 0028 [15653.843341] FS: 7f0db5c4f700() GS:88007f60() knlGS: [15653.843343] CS: 0010 DS: ES: CR0: 80050033 [15653.843346] CR2: CR3: 169bf000 CR4: 000406f0 [15653.843348] DR0: DR1: DR2: [15653.843351] DR3: DR6: 0ff0 DR7: 0400 [15653.843354] Process openvpn (pid: 9677, threadinfo 880016da2000, task 88007bb4bb00) [15653.843356] Stack: [15653.843357] 0028 880078a83400 72a50050 [15653.843362] 880016da3e88 a0014934 8800 880016da3e08 [15653.843367] 8800798f08d0 [15653.843372] Call Trace: [15653.843377] [a0014934] __tun_chr_ioctl+0x154/0xc30 [tun] [15653.843383] [812b3ae1] ? inode_has_perm.clone.23+0x21/0x30 [15653.843387] [812b646a] ? file_has_perm+0xba/0xc0 [15653.843391] [a001544e] tun_chr_ioctl+0xe/0x10 [tun] [15653.843395] [81172b66] do_vfs_ioctl+0x96/0x540 [15653.843399] [811730a1] sys_ioctl+0x91/0xa0 [15653.843403] [816c487b] system_call_fastpath+0x16/0x1b [15653.843405] Code: e8 04 48 01 c8 48 01 f0 48 39 fa 48 8d 0c 80 48 8d 34 48 75 db 69 f6 01 00 37 9e c1 ee 18 89 f6 48 c1 e6 03 48 8b 83 90 00 00 00 48 8b 1c 30 48 85 db 75 0c eb 32 66 90 48 8b 1b 48 85 db 74 28 [15653.843440] RIP [815605c3] __dev_get_by_name+0x73/0xd0 [15653.843444] RSP 880016da3da8 [15653.843446] CR2: [15653.843448] ---[ end trace 2d6c431c15c6c2fd ]--- [17540.211037] ieee80211 phy0: wlan0: No probe response from AP 00:27:19:33:2e:be after 500ms, disconnecting. [17540.219257] cfg80211: Calling CRDA to update world regulatory domain # lsmod Module Size Used by b43 171090 0 mac80211 184305 1 b43 bcma 20076 1 b43 ssb41892 1 b43 nvidia 12229445 43 intel_agp 10560 0 intel_gtt 14263 1 intel_agp agpgart26135 3 nvidia,intel_agp,intel_gtt i2c_i8017998 0 video 11043 0 uvcvideo 62879 0 i2c_core 18050 2 nvidia,i2c_i801 ideapad_laptop 8339 0 Thank you for any reply!
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
pk wrote: On 2012-03-17 21:09, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: seriously, you have seemed to miss some news. There is a move by redhatco to move almost everything from / to /usr. With nothing left than some mountpoints - why put / on its own partition? There is nothing to contain apart from /etc. Nope, haven't missed a thing; I'm on the other side of the fence (of course the _right_ side :-) ), where we can keep all our /bin /sbin /usr directories separate and live happily everafter... ;-) Your sarcasm fails because you think that there is an intrinsic reason to keep / seperate. Well, with / filled with usefull binaries to bring a hosed system back from the garbage pile that was true for some peole. But with the current movement there isn't anything there at all. You're correct in a sense; if I choose to accept the New World Order (NWO) and put everything into /usr then you would be correct. As it stands now, I'm going in the other direction (putting /, /usr, /var, /home on separate harddrives)... :-D But I guess Gentoo itself will adapt to the NWO eventually, unless (by some miracle) some sanity is restored, so I'll have to find a new OS to use (probably FreeBSD)... Best regards Peter K I been thinking about that *BSD stuff lately. Hm, maybe I need to do some research on this and give it a try. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words! Miss the compile output? Hint: EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--quiet-build=n
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
Peter Humphrey wrote: On Saturday 17 March 2012 12:54:53 Eliezer Croitoru wrote: genkernel is pretty simple to use if you ask me. just emerege genkernel and then use genkerenl --menuconfig all it will do everything for you the same as in a regular kernel compiling. you have instructions on how to use genkernel on the handbook. What's more, you don't have to keep going through menuconfig if you already have a running self-compiled kernel. Just copy the .config file to somewhere safe (I use, e.g. /boot/config-3.2) and call genkernel with the option to specify the config file it's to use. Sorry but I can't tell you exactly what the parameter is as I don't have genkernel on this box. Someone will be along in a moment though. I used genkernel when I was first installing Gentoo. I let that thing build half a dozen kernels, chroot in between too. You know what, not one of them worked. That was a long time ago but let me check something here. spit spit spit I had to get the bad taste out of my mouth. lol I might also add, I started using a init thingy a few weeks ago, dracut tool. For some crazy reason, when I boot with the init thingy, my system doesn't work right. When I boot without the init thingy, it works fine. Still trying to figure out that one. It's in another thread. I don't see myself using genkernel any time soon. Right now, I'm having flashbacks to hal with regard to dracut and the whole init thingy /usr mess. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words! Miss the compile output? Hint: EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--quiet-build=n
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and permissions problems
On 2012-03-18 04:11, Bruce Hill, Jr. wrote: Am I eternally confused? I have no idea... besides, eternity is a long time... ;-) su - change user ID or become superuser It's not _only_ to become root (maybe theoretically if you only have one normal user). On a true multiuser system you can su (switch user) to any user. Yes, correct. Sorry if this was implied; I only talked about Dales specific problem... Since _every_ computer I own or have _ever_ built has -pam globally, pam is not a requirement to use su ... is it? Nope. Again, I was only trying to help Dale... If su is owned by 'root.root' (user.group) I assumed that it's execution was controlled by something else since it otherwise should be owned by 'root.wheel' (unless you're part of the 'root' group, which I don't think is recommended). If you're not running pam then I assume your 'su' is owned by 'root.wheel'? Best regards Peter K
Re: [gentoo-user] mdev for udev substitution instructions web page is up
On Mar 18, 2012 3:45 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 4:38 AM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:29 AM, Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 11:37:49PM +0100, Sebastian Pipping wrote On 03/17/2012 03:51 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: The page will be permanently under construction, i.e. evolving as we find out more about how mdev works. Unless you want to maintain total control of the data flow I would suggest turning that page into a new wiki page at https://wiki.gentoo.org/ to ease contribution to others and to increase availability and accessibility of that content. Probably the best thing to do in the long run. I've never done any wiki editing/posting, so I'll take a day or 2 to read up on it. The help page looks rather complex. Or are there any volunteers here who can copy the contents of the web page to a wiki page? I'll gladly change my webpage to a pointer to the wiki page. First stab: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Mdev I don't know the Gentoo wiki's style policies, but I do know MediaWiki reasonably well. I did take license to edit for language/linguistic style, but not for substantive comment. Please go through and correct anything that seems broken. It's almost 4:30AM where I am, and I really ought to be sleeping, so I almost certainly mussed something up. Pretty sure I switched styles about halfway through, too. You should find the MediaWiki syntax reasonably accessible; just click 'edit' at the top of the page and compare what the 'raw' form looks like with what the results look like. On a tangent, is that a better tutorial on wiki pages anywhere? MediaWiki.org has the best content. Generally, you'd play around in a sandbox page of your own (on whatever wiki site you have an account on) to get a feel for things. BTW, where would one go to get involved in organization of the wiki? I found myself wishing for templates for consistent formatting of things like files, one-liners and naming of ebuilds, but I don't think I ought to simply create the templates I'm looking for without talking with someone first. I suggest asking in gentoo-project. The Powers That Be™ are obligatory members there... Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Mar 18, 2012 3:52 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: If the config file doesn't exists, the service will not start, and you can check the reason why with systemctl status sshd.service And of course you can set another mini sevice unit file to create the hostkeys. But I repeat: I think those tasks belong into the package manager, no the init script. Between installation by package manager and actual execution by the init system, things might happen on the required file(s). Gentoo's initscript guards against this possibility *plus* providing helpful error messages in /var/rc.log Or, said configuration files might be corrupted; the OpenRC initscript -- if written defensively -- will be able to detect that and (perhaps) fallback to something sane. systemd can't do that, short of putting all required intelligence into a script which it executes on boot. Now, if one has to put all the intelligence into a script file which gets executed by systemd, that results in a system that's more complex than plain OpenRC. Not only would one need to maintain the starting script, but one must also maintain systemd + dbus. So, the *only* benefit I can see about systemd is the smarter parallel startup of services. And believe me if I say that server guys (the ones handling tens or even hundreds of servers) would much prefer sequential startup of services than parallel ones. The former is deterministic, the latter is not. Rgds,
[gentoo-user] Re: I get trouble with my bcm4312 wl card!
On 03/18/2012 02:29 AM, 林守磊 wrote: Hi~ I drive my bcm4312 by module b43 and firmware , learned from http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43 It is drive successfully, but when I start my openvpn , it looks like that the kernel is crashed. The kernel log : [13446.745188] sched: RT throttling activated [15653.842657] tun: Universal TUN/TAP device driver, 1.6 [15653.842661] tun: (C) 1999-2004 Max Krasnyansky m...@qualcomm.com mailto:m...@qualcomm.com [15653.843275] BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at (null) That's a bug in the kernel, so my first step would be to try the most recent kernel, hoping that the bug has already been fixed upstream. If the most recent kernel crashes the same way, then I would try older kernels, hoping to find where the bug first appeared. [15653.843314] Pid: 9677, comm: openvpn Tainted: P O 3.2.9-gentoo-Shelley #1 LENOVO IdeaPad Y450 /KL1 The word Tainted refers to your nvidia driver (see below). Some kernel developers may refuse to accept a bug report if they see the word Tainted, but I've never had a bug report refused for that reason. You can get rid of the Tainted by using an open-source driver like nouveau or the old 'nv' if you have trouble getting a bug report accepted by a kernel developer. # lsmod Module Size Used by nvidia 12229445 43
Re: [gentoo-user] mdev for udev substitution instructions web page is up
Am Fri, 16 Mar 2012 22:51:00 -0400 schrieb Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org: The instructions for replacing udev with mdev are now up at http://www.waltdnes.org/mdev/ validator.w3.org complains about a couple of extensions I used, but it appears to work OK in both Firefox and Midori. Any comments from users of other browsers? The page will be permanently under construction, i.e. evolving as we find out more about how mdev works. For those that don't follow Planet Gentoo: Luca Barbato just gave your project a positive mention within a small rant about the whole situation: http://blogs.gentoo.org/lu_zero/2012/03/17/again-on-shoveling-stuff-in-other-people-mouth/ Now to return to the sidelines and keep watching from afar how this whole thing will turn out :) . -- Marc Joliet -- People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don't - Bjarne Stroustrup signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On 03/17/2012 12:40 PM, pk wrote: On 2012-03-17 19:38, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: you know, with that 'put everything into /usr' crap going on, I don't see any reason to have a seperate /usr at all. /root is completely empty. So what? Put everything on one partition and go on. Yes, let's do away with partitions altogether, who needs them? When I was in school the (Winchester) disk drives were the size of a hotel mini-bar and the, um, diskettes the size of a stack of four or five large pizza boxes which had to be carried with both hands. I never asked how much these toys cost, but I'm guessing it would be roughly a year's salary for most people. Now multiply that by the number of partitions you need to mount simultaneously. That was the reason for separate / and /usr back then -- the school didn't want to buy multiple Winchesters when they could get the sysadmin to swap multiple diskettes during bootup, and let the student health service cover the cost of his hernia repair :p
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On March 18, 2012 at 3:54 AM Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: I recall reading on this list a week or two ago that kernel autoassembly of 0.90 arrays was deprecated. :( -- :wq Works on my computers. And mine. But 'deprecated' means 'this may go away in the future'. My question ... who says it's deprecated and why? -- Happy Penguin Computers`) 126 Fenco Drive( \ Tupelo, MS 38801^^ 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 support at happypenguincomputers dot com http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
Re: [gentoo-user] mdev for udev substitution instructions web page is up
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 18:42, Marc Joliet mar...@gmx.de wrote: Am Fri, 16 Mar 2012 22:51:00 -0400 schrieb Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org: The instructions for replacing udev with mdev are now up at http://www.waltdnes.org/mdev/ validator.w3.org complains about a couple of extensions I used, but it appears to work OK in both Firefox and Midori. Any comments from users of other browsers? The page will be permanently under construction, i.e. evolving as we find out more about how mdev works. For those that don't follow Planet Gentoo: Luca Barbato just gave your project a positive mention within a small rant about the whole situation: http://blogs.gentoo.org/lu_zero/2012/03/17/again-on-shoveling-stuff-in-other-people-mouth/ Now to return to the sidelines and keep watching from afar how this whole thing will turn out :) . Let's start a pool on how soon Walter will get a waltdnes@gentoo address ;-) Rgds, -- FdS Pandu E Poluan ~ IT Optimizer ~ • LOPSA Member #15248 • Blog : http://pepoluan.tumblr.com • Linked-In : http://id.linkedin.com/in/pepoluan
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
Am Sonntag, 18. März 2012, 08:01:59 schrieb Bruce Hill, Jr.: On March 18, 2012 at 3:54 AM Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: I recall reading on this list a week or two ago that kernel autoassembly of 0.90 arrays was deprecated. :( -- :wq Works on my computers. And mine. But 'deprecated' means 'this may go away in the future'. My question ... who says it's deprecated and why? the kernel devs because the kernel might get it wrong and for some reason they think that this is worse then mdadm getting it wrong. Which is of course bullshit because either way you are f*cked. -- Happy Penguin Computers`) 126 Fenco Drive( \ Tupelo, MS 38801^^ 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 support at happypenguincomputers dot com http://www.happypenguincomputers.com -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Assistance if possible
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 00:15:10 -0400 Colleen Beamer colleen.bea...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, All of you guys that are more experienced and technical than I am will probably laugh at me. However Today, I wanted to update my computer. I got all kinds of messages related to kde stuff. One my one, I unmerged the offending packages and added the line to my package.keywords file so that an upgrade of a package masked by keyword would be installed. However, activitymanager can't be reinstalled because there isn't an upgrade to 4.8.1. Since I went about things the way I did, I can't get this package installed because everything else is upgraded to 4.8.1 and activitymanager's latest version is 4.7.4. I believe activitymanager is now part of kactivities. So just unmerge activitymanager and let the ebuilds figure it out. You probably have activitymanager in world so portage tries to explicitly pull it in. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and permissions problems
On March 18, 2012 at 6:22 AM pk pete...@coolmail.se wrote: On 2012-03-18 04:11, Bruce Hill, Jr. wrote: Am I eternally confused? I have no idea... besides, eternity is a long time... ;-) su - change user ID or become superuser It's not _only_ to become root (maybe theoretically if you only have one normal user). On a true multiuser system you can su (switch user) to any user. Yes, correct. Sorry if this was implied; I only talked about Dales specific problem... Since _every_ computer I own or have _ever_ built has -pam globally, pam is not a requirement to use su ... is it? Nope. Again, I was only trying to help Dale... If su is owned by 'root.root' (user.group) I assumed that it's execution was controlled by something else since it otherwise should be owned by 'root.wheel' (unless you're part of the 'root' group, which I don't think is recommended). If you're not running pam then I assume your 'su' is owned by 'root.wheel'? Best regards Peter K The ownership is not changed, with user(s) where it's necessary (never on servers) in the wheel group. mingdao@t420 ~ $ ls -l /bin/su -rws--x--x 1 root root 53440 Oct 7 07:00 /bin/su mingdao@t420 ~ $ ls -l /usr/bin/sudo ---s--x--x 2 root root 71144 Feb 22 06:34 /usr/bin/sudo # less /etc/sudoers snip ## Same thing without a password %wheel ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL snip mingdao@t420 ~ $ id uid=1000(mingdao) gid=1000(mingdao) groups=1000(mingdao),7(lp),10(wheel),16(cron),18(audio),19(cdrom),27(video),80(cdrw),85(usb),100(users),250(portage) The 'stuff' happens when you issue visudo and edit the above file. I've never studied this on Gentoo, but also have: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 180696 Feb 22 06:34 /usr/lib64/sudo/sudoers.so Meh ... too much to learn for an old dog like me. -- Happy Penguin Computers`) 126 Fenco Drive( \ Tupelo, MS 38801^^ 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 support at happypenguincomputers dot com http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 04:51:54 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: I been thinking about that *BSD stuff lately. Hm, maybe I need to do some research on this and give it a try. Give it a try, you might be pleasantly surprised. For single purpose servers, FreeBSD beats Linux hands down almost every time. I switched all the company servers I could over to FreeBSD (ftp, mail, web, auth - basically everything that isn't running Oracle, Sybase or some other proprietary software with license constraints). Suddenly, all manner of maintenance issues just went away. But I rather suspect that's more because they moved away from SLES than moving away from Linux :-) *BSD on the desktop is an altogether different story though. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Assistance if possible
On 03/18/12 08:55, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 00:15:10 -0400 Colleen Beamer colleen.bea...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, All of you guys that are more experienced and technical than I am will probably laugh at me. However Today, I wanted to update my computer. I got all kinds of messages related to kde stuff. One my one, I unmerged the offending packages and added the line to my package.keywords file so that an upgrade of a package masked by keyword would be installed. However, activitymanager can't be reinstalled because there isn't an upgrade to 4.8.1. Since I went about things the way I did, I can't get this package installed because everything else is upgraded to 4.8.1 and activitymanager's latest version is 4.7.4. I believe activitymanager is now part of kactivities. So just unmerge activitymanager and let the ebuilds figure it out. You probably have activitymanager in world so portage tries to explicitly pull it in. Yes, I have activity manager in world, but I've unmasked all kde packages for version 4.8.1 and because of that, I can't get activitymanager installed because the latest verion for that is only 4.7.4 and I get told kactivities-4.8.1 blocks activitymanager.. I can get into KDE after my upgrade, but I can't move windows around, nor close or resize them. So I assume activitymanager is somehow needed. Regards, Colleen -- Registered Linux User #411143 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 19:45:06 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: * Finally, and what I think is the most fundamental difference between systemd and almost any other init system: The service unit files in systemd are *declarative*; you tell the daemon *what* to do, not *how* to do it. If the service files are shell scripts (like in OpenRC/SysV), everything can spiral out of control really easily. And it usually does (again, look at sshd; and that one is actully nicely written, there are all kind of monsters out there abusing the power that shell gives you). I'm having a wet dream right about now :-) init has been my pet peeve for years, starting with sysvinit. Why do I need 9 runlevels all fully configured, when me, my machines, the company's server, every Linux user in the company and every other use I have ever personally met, only use 1 of them? Let's not even discuss the amount of complexity that gets pushed into the init scripts themselves. Here's what I want: When the machine starts, I want services X, Y and Z to run. The software figures out what order they must start in and how the deps work. Clean, neat, easy. Maintenance mode is handled easily with two stages in startup: early_start and late_start. Maintenance mode is what you have between them. Again - nice, clean and simple. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Assistance if possible
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 09:10:07 -0400 Colleen Beamer colleen.bea...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/18/12 08:55, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 00:15:10 -0400 Colleen Beamer colleen.bea...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, All of you guys that are more experienced and technical than I am will probably laugh at me. However Today, I wanted to update my computer. I got all kinds of messages related to kde stuff. One my one, I unmerged the offending packages and added the line to my package.keywords file so that an upgrade of a package masked by keyword would be installed. However, activitymanager can't be reinstalled because there isn't an upgrade to 4.8.1. Since I went about things the way I did, I can't get this package installed because everything else is upgraded to 4.8.1 and activitymanager's latest version is 4.7.4. I believe activitymanager is now part of kactivities. So just unmerge activitymanager and let the ebuilds figure it out. You probably have activitymanager in world so portage tries to explicitly pull it in. Yes, I have activity manager in world, but I've unmasked all kde packages for version 4.8.1 and because of that, I can't get activitymanager installed because the latest verion for that is only 4.7.4 and I get told kactivities-4.8.1 blocks activitymanager.. I can get into KDE after my upgrade, but I can't move windows around, nor close or resize them. So I assume activitymanager is somehow needed. Not quite. activitymanager is being pulled in not because it is needed, but because you told portage to do it regardless of what portage thinks (that's what happens when you put things in world). In this case, portage actually does know better than you. Just unmerge activitymanager entirely and let portage figure it out. The software you want will be installed but as part of kactivities (apparently the variosu KDE and Gentoo devs moved stuff around and renamed things. It happens.) -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On March 18, 2012 at 8:47 AM Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Sonntag, 18. März 2012, 08:01:59 schrieb Bruce Hill, Jr.: On March 18, 2012 at 3:54 AM Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: I recall reading on this list a week or two ago that kernel autoassembly of 0.90 arrays was deprecated. :( -- :wq Works on my computers. And mine. But 'deprecated' means 'this may go away in the future'. My question ... who says it's deprecated and why? the kernel devs because the kernel might get it wrong and for some reason they think that this is worse then mdadm getting it wrong. Which is of course bullshit because either way you are f*cked. It works better in kernel than userspace presently, and doesn't require a nasty initrd image, so I'm sticking with that. Might you post from LKML where said kernel devs deprecated kernel assembly of RAID us 0.90 metadata? -- Happy Penguin Computers`) 126 Fenco Drive( \ Tupelo, MS 38801^^ 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 support at happypenguincomputers dot com http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 8:57 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: On March 17, 2012 at 8:43 PM Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: snip initramfs side of things. I did have to use one to bring up my server with / on a RAID6, not because I needed it long term but in the short term I couldn't determine how mdadm was numbering the RAID so that I could get grub.conf correct. I'm somehow a bot worried something is going to slip by the devs and I'd be better off having an initramfs already running on the box when I do allow the upgrades. Planning on giving Dracut a try. Thanks, Mark The real short of this is that if you use 0.90 superblocks I do not use 0.90 metadata here. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 11:30 PM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP I recall reading on this list a week or two ago that kernel autoassembly of 0.90 arrays was deprecated. :( -- :wq I don't know about 'depreciated' as that has a sort of special meaning, but Neil Brown has been moving away from it for a long time I think. 0.90 auto-assembly does still work TTBOMK. - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Assistance if possible
Colleen Beamer writes: Yes, I have activity manager in world, but I've unmasked all kde packages for version 4.8.1 and because of that, I can't get activitymanager installed because the latest verion for that is only 4.7.4 and I get told kactivities-4.8.1 blocks activitymanager.. I can get into KDE after my upgrade, but I can't move windows around, nor close or resize them. So I assume activitymanager is somehow needed. KDE 4.8.1 is running file here, without kde-base/activitymanager being installed. It's probably part of kactivities now, I had it installed (autoamtically) in KDE 4.7.4. Anyway, moving windows around is KWin's responsibility, and has nothing to do with activities, they are more about switching sessions on the fly. I'd rename my ~/.kde4 directory and try again, maybe you have some corrupted config. Or try as another user. Does the problem persist? Wonko
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 04:51:54 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: I been thinking about that *BSD stuff lately. Hm, maybe I need to do some research on this and give it a try. Give it a try, you might be pleasantly surprised. For single purpose servers, FreeBSD beats Linux hands down almost every time. I switched all the company servers I could over to FreeBSD (ftp, mail, web, auth - basically everything that isn't running Oracle, Sybase or some other proprietary software with license constraints). Suddenly, all manner of maintenance issues just went away. But I rather suspect that's more because they moved away from SLES than moving away from Linux :-) *BSD on the desktop is an altogether different story though. I did install a BSD once a long time ago. I thought about making a homemade router and read it was one secure puppy. Well, when I set my password, I guess something was on/off like numlock/caps lock because I never could get the password to work after I rebooted. I couldn't find a way around it so I stopped playing with since I didn't want to install it again. So dang secure I couldn't get in and IT WAS MINE. o_O I have read where people say it is not real desktop friendly, as in KDE type desktop stuff. While at it, check out my other thread about KDE and permissions. I think my init thingy has broke something. I'm looking for ideas. I planned on at least giving this a shot but if it is going to break before I even get started, switching may come sooner rather than later. The short post that mentions the init thing is the latest. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words! Miss the compile output? Hint: EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--quiet-build=n
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sat, 17 Mar 2012 19:45:06 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: * Finally, and what I think is the most fundamental difference between systemd and almost any other init system: The service unit files in systemd are *declarative*; you tell the daemon *what* to do, not *how* to do it. If the service files are shell scripts (like in OpenRC/SysV), everything can spiral out of control really easily. And it usually does (again, look at sshd; and that one is actully nicely written, there are all kind of monsters out there abusing the power that shell gives you). I'm having a wet dream right about now :-) init has been my pet peeve for years, starting with sysvinit. Why do I need 9 runlevels all fully configured, when me, my machines, the company's server, every Linux user in the company and every other use I have ever personally met, only use 1 of them? Let's not even discuss the amount of complexity that gets pushed into the init scripts themselves. Here's what I want: When the machine starts, I want services X, Y and Z to run. The software figures out what order they must start in and how the deps work. Clean, neat, easy. Maintenance mode is handled easily with two stages in startup: early_start and late_start. Maintenance mode is what you have between them. Again - nice, clean and simple. Well, I am not normal. I, on a regular basis, use single, boot and default runlevels. So there !! lol Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words! Miss the compile output? Hint: EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--quiet-build=n
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
Am Sonntag, 18. März 2012, 09:23:00 schrieb Bruce Hill, Jr.: On March 18, 2012 at 8:47 AM Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Sonntag, 18. März 2012, 08:01:59 schrieb Bruce Hill, Jr.: On March 18, 2012 at 3:54 AM Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: I recall reading on this list a week or two ago that kernel autoassembly of 0.90 arrays was deprecated. :( -- :wq Works on my computers. And mine. But 'deprecated' means 'this may go away in the future'. My question ... who says it's deprecated and why? the kernel devs because the kernel might get it wrong and for some reason they think that this is worse then mdadm getting it wrong. Which is of course bullshit because either way you are f*cked. It works better in kernel than userspace presently, and doesn't require a nasty initrd image, so I'm sticking with that. Might you post from LKML where said kernel devs deprecated kernel assembly of RAID us 0.90 metadata? no, but I might remember another thread on lkml that discussed autoassemble. Be free to waste lots of time: http://marc.info/?l=linux-raidm=126592924232390w=2 http://marc.info/?l=linux-raidm=126628146211758w=2 -- #163933
[gentoo-user] Re: Power management or something?
I have a fresh install of Gentoo on my laptop and I'm having some trouble with the backlight that I think is related to the screen going into some sort of power save mode or something along those lines. Are there power management settings somewhere or something similar? I'm on xfce4. - Grant I found another clue. It happens whenever I shut my laptop screen, even for a moment. Is this some kind of sleep mode? Might I be able to disable it in the kernel somewhere? - Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Power management or something?
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Grant emailgr...@gmail.com wrote: I have a fresh install of Gentoo on my laptop and I'm having some trouble with the backlight that I think is related to the screen going into some sort of power save mode or something along those lines. Are there power management settings somewhere or something similar? I'm on xfce4. - Grant I found another clue. It happens whenever I shut my laptop screen, even for a moment. Is this some kind of sleep mode? Might I be able to disable it in the kernel somewhere? - Grant I had that same issue with closing the screen. I think my solution was a KDE setting which won't help you unless there is something similar with XFCE. I'll boot the laptop and see if I Can spot what I did. Ah the things we have time for when watching Hulu on a Sunday morning... ;-) Back later, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] mdev for udev substitution instructions web page is up
On 03/18/2012 09:42 AM, Michael Mol wrote: BTW, where would one go to get involved in organization of the wiki? I found myself wishing for templates for consistent formatting of things like files, one-liners and naming of ebuilds, but I don't think I ought to simply create the templates I'm looking for without talking with someone first. For file content and kernel config I have seen templates up there already. I'm not sure what you mean by one-liners and naming of ebuilds. Please get in touch with these people: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/wiki/ You can reach all of them on alias wiki at g.o. Best, Sebastian
[gentoo-user] ESpeak doe not talk to me...
Hi, I have problems to get sound from ESpeak... According to this: http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/portaudio/2011-February/011726.html and this: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347041 I unmasked ESpeak and installed portaudio and ESpeak. My system uses jackin relatime mode successfully. Nonetheless I get this when trying ESpeak: solfire:/home/mccramerespeak hello Jack: JackClient::SetupDriverSync driver sem in flush mode Jack: JackPosixSemaphore::Connect name = jack_sem.1001_default_PortAudio Jack: JackPosixSemaphore::Connect sem_getvalue 0 Jack: Clock source : hpet This system has no accessible HPET device (Device or resource busy) Jack: JackLibClient::Open name = PortAudio refnum = 4 Jack: WaitGraphChange... Jack: JackClient::Activate Jack: JackClient::StartThread : period = 21333 computation = 100 constraint = 21333 Jack: Create non RT thread Jack: ThreadHandler: start Jack: JackClient::kBufferSizeCallback buffer_size = 1024 Jack: JackPosixThread::AcquireRealTimeImp priority = 5 Jack: JackClient::ClientNotify ref = 4 name = PortAudio notify = 2 Jack: JackClient::kActivateClient name = PortAudio ref = 4 Expression 'parameters-channelCount = maxChans' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 924 Expression 'ValidateParameters( outputParameters, hostApi, StreamDirection_Out )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1142 Jack: JackClient::ClientNotify ref = 4 name = PortAudio notify = 18 Jack: JackClient::ClientNotify ref = 4 name = PortAudio notify = 18 Expression 'parameters-channelCount = maxChans' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 924 Expression 'ValidateParameters( outputParameters, hostApi, StreamDirection_Out )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1142 Expression 'parameters-channelCount = maxChans' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 924 Expression 'ValidateParameters( outputParameters, hostApi, StreamDirection_Out )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1142 Expression 'SetApproximateSampleRate( pcm, hwParams, sr )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1291 Expression 'PaAlsaStreamComponent_InitialConfigure( self-playback, outParams, self-primeBuffers, hwParamsPlayback, realSr )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1865 Expression 'PaAlsaStream_Configure( stream, inputParameters, outputParameters, sampleRate, framesPerBuffer, inputLatency, outputLatency, hostBufferSizeMode )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1986 wave_open_sound Pa_OpenStream : err=-9997 (Invalid sample rate) Expression 'SetApproximateSampleRate( pcm, hwParams, sr )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1291 Expression 'PaAlsaStreamComponent_InitialConfigure( self-playback, outParams, self-primeBuffers, hwParamsPlayback, realSr )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1865 Expression 'PaAlsaStream_Configure( stream, inputParameters, outputParameters, sampleRate, framesPerBuffer, inputLatency, outputLatency, hostBufferSizeMode )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1986 Expression 'SetApproximateSampleRate( pcm, hwParams, sr )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1291 Expression 'PaAlsaStreamComponent_InitialConfigure( self-playback, outParams, self-primeBuffers, hwParamsPlayback, realSr )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1865 Expression 'PaAlsaStream_Configure( stream, inputParameters, outputParameters, sampleRate, framesPerBuffer, inputLatency, outputLatency, hostBufferSizeMode )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1986 wave_open_sound Pa_OpenStream : err=-9997 (Invalid sample rate) Expression 'SetApproximateSampleRate( pcm, hwParams, sr )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1291 Expression 'PaAlsaStreamComponent_InitialConfigure( self-playback, outParams, self-primeBuffers, hwParamsPlayback, realSr )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1865 Expression 'PaAlsaStream_Configure( stream, inputParameters, outputParameters, sampleRate, framesPerBuffer, inputLatency, outputLatency, hostBufferSizeMode )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1986 Expression 'SetApproximateSampleRate( pcm, hwParams, sr )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1291 Expression 'PaAlsaStreamComponent_InitialConfigure( self-playback, outParams, self-primeBuffers, hwParamsPlayback, realSr )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1865 Expression 'PaAlsaStream_Configure( stream, inputParameters, outputParameters, sampleRate, framesPerBuffer, inputLatency, outputLatency, hostBufferSizeMode )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1986 wave_open_sound Pa_OpenStream : err=-9997 (Invalid sample rate) Expression 'SetApproximateSampleRate( pcm, hwParams, sr )' failed in 'src/hostapi/alsa/pa_linux_alsa.c', line: 1291 Expression 'PaAlsaStreamComponent_InitialConfigure( self-playback,
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Power management or something?
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Grant emailgr...@gmail.com wrote: I have a fresh install of Gentoo on my laptop and I'm having some trouble with the backlight that I think is related to the screen going into some sort of power save mode or something along those lines. Are there power management settings somewhere or something similar? I'm on xfce4. - Grant I found another clue. It happens whenever I shut my laptop screen, even for a moment. Is this some kind of sleep mode? Might I be able to disable it in the kernel somewhere? - Grant I had that same issue with closing the screen. I think my solution was a KDE setting which won't help you unless there is something similar with XFCE. I'll boot the laptop and see if I Can spot what I did. Ah the things we have time for when watching Hulu on a Sunday morning... ;-) Back later, Mark Keeping in mind that I'm _not_ using or even testing backlighting, the place where I controlled whether the laptop got screen locked or hibernated was in the KDE System Settings app where I disabled all such stuff. Now the screen just goes black when the lid is closed, saving some power, but nothing locks, sleeps, hibernates or any other such response. I did nothing in the kernel that I see. HTH, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] mdev for udev substitution instructions web page is up
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Sebastian Pipping sp...@gentoo.org wrote: On 03/18/2012 09:42 AM, Michael Mol wrote: BTW, where would one go to get involved in organization of the wiki? I found myself wishing for templates for consistent formatting of things like files, one-liners and naming of ebuilds, but I don't think I ought to simply create the templates I'm looking for without talking with someone first. For file content and kernel config I have seen templates up there already. I'm not sure what you mean by one-liners and naming of ebuilds. Please get in touch with these people: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/wiki/ You can reach all of them on alias wiki at g.o. I'm in #gentoo-wiki, now, and have been asked if I had permission to copy Walt's page. So...Walt, did I have permission to copy your page? -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On 2012-03-17 8:54 AM, Eliezer Croitoru elie...@ngtech.co.il wrote: genkernel is pretty simple to use if you ask me. just emerege genkernel Thanks, but... what part of I have never used genkernel, and have no desire to... did you not understand?
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On 2012-03-18 9:29 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know about 'depreciated' as that has a sort of special meaning, pet-peeve it is deprecATED, not deprecIated /pet-peeve
[gentoo-user] Initramfs or move /usr to /, oh my...
Creating a new thread for this questions since mine got lost in all of the follow-ups... I would really appreciate a meaningful response to this question (maybe I should go ask this on -dev?) - this has the potential to lose me forever as a gentoo user (I'm sure none of you are crying over that, but *I* am), and I've seen other similar comments... I'm thinking of FreeBSD too (and PCBSD for my desktop)... Anyway... On 2012-03-17 12:11 AM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: An initramfs which does this is created by =sys-kernel/genkernel-3.4.25.1 or =sys-kernel/dracut-017-r1. If you do not want to use these tools, be sure any initramfs you create pre-mounts /usr. Ok, I have never used genkernel, and have no desire to... I have no idea what dracut is or how to use it... I have a remote system that has /usr on a separate partition. So... How do I find out if I am actually *using* an initramfs right now (I know it is built into the kernel), and If I am not, how do I do this without using genkernel? Is dracut the *only* other option? Is it easy/trivial to set one up manually? I cannot imagine that gentoo is just going to throw me to the wolves like this without providing *in-depth* instructions on how to make sure my system will boot after this update, like they did with the baselayout-2 update... Personally, I have no problem with not having a separate /usr any more, except that I have 3 remote systems that I manage right now that already *have* a separate /usr... On that note - is it possible, and if so, does anyone have any decent detailed How-to's on how I might be able to convert a separate /user to one on directly on / on a running system?
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On 18/03/2012 11:52, Dale wrote: Peter Humphrey wrote: On Saturday 17 March 2012 12:54:53 Eliezer Croitoru wrote: genkernel is pretty simple to use if you ask me. just emerege genkernel and then use genkerenl --menuconfig all it will do everything for you the same as in a regular kernel compiling. you have instructions on how to use genkernel on the handbook. What's more, you don't have to keep going through menuconfig if you already have a running self-compiled kernel. Just copy the .config file to somewhere safe (I use, e.g. /boot/config-3.2) and call genkernel with the option to specify the config file it's to use. Sorry but I can't tell you exactly what the parameter is as I don't have genkernel on this box. Someone will be along in a moment though. I used genkernel when I was first installing Gentoo. I let that thing build half a dozen kernels, chroot in between too. You know what, not one of them worked. That was a long time ago but let me check something here. spit spit spit I had to get the bad taste out of my mouth. lol I might also add, I started using a init thingy a few weeks ago, dracut tool. For some crazy reason, when I boot with the init thingy, my system doesn't work right. When I boot without the init thingy, it works fine. Still trying to figure out that one. It's in another thread. I don't see myself using genkernel any time soon. Right now, I'm having flashbacks to hal with regard to dracut and the whole init thingy /usr mess. i have used genkernel for a long time and all of my genkernel compilation works really good. i have (counting, 1 very very big production server, 2 small production server, 3 home server, 4 +5 +6 + 7 +8 of vms runing genkernel with several services such as mail mail filtering web server and monitoring) so what can i say? all these machines will say other then you. Regards, Eliezer Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Initramfs or move /usr to /, oh my...
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 01:44:07PM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: Creating a new thread for this questions since mine got lost in all of the follow-ups... I would really appreciate a meaningful response to this question (maybe I should go ask this on -dev?) - this has the potential to lose me forever as a gentoo user (I'm sure none of you are crying over that, but *I* am), and I've seen other similar comments... I'm thinking of FreeBSD too (and PCBSD for my desktop)... I wonder what to do also. Part of me wonders why in the hell anyone thinks they need to make such a change, seemingly just for the sake of change. Having /root, /boot, and /bin et all distinct from the user mode /usr, /home, and everything else always seemed to me one of the genuinely clever bits of Unix. I understand that things get more complex, and the idea of a very simple base system are long gone, but why does that require doing away with the separate partitions? Maybe I'm just a retro grouch in that respect. But there are other concerns. I had thought of just copying /boot et all into /usr, adding a grub entry to boot off that partition, and easing into the brave new world. But I can't do that. My /usr is an LVM partition, and making that bootable is apparently as big as hassle, perhaps more so, than using dracut or some simpler initramfs. I began computing back before there were integrated circuits and 8 bit computers, let alone cell phones with more computing power than the $10M monsters. I look forward to the day when my pocket computer automatically links to the display and keyboard at my desk when I sit down, or projects its display on the wall and watches my fingers on a bare desk for keys and I don't have to worry about synching my various computers or worrying about patent wars. The days have long passed when I enjoyed seeing how many instructions I could get on one 80 column punched card (hint: overlap them) or how few instructions it took to figure out the days in a month (hint: use parity) or spending days optimizing for a drum computer ... or messing with configuration issues because some self-proclaimed efficiency export decided that /usr was needed at boot. My attitude right now is to wait and see. Maybe this will all blow over, maybe the self-proclaimed experts will find other things to do, maybe other self-proclaimed experts will find nifty tools to make migration easier. In the meantime, I have other work to do, and I will just freeze parts of my system for the time being. I don't see migrating to other systems as being worth any more than an up-yours. Any other linux system will no doubt do the same. Any other unix but not linux system will have an entirely different hassle. I am past the days when dinking for the sake of dinking involved boot issues and disk configurations. There are much more interesting bigger issues to dink with now. -- ... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._. Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman rocket surgeon / fe...@crowfix.com GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E 6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933 I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o
Re: [gentoo-user] Initramfs or move /usr to /, oh my...
On 18-Mar-12 18:44, Tanstaafl wrote: How do I find out if I am actually *using* an initramfs right now (I know it is built into the kernel), Just guessing: If you do not know, then you are probably not using it... Jarry -- ___ This mailbox accepts e-mails only from selected mailing-lists! Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.
Re: [gentoo-user] Initramfs or move /usr to /, oh my...
Tanstaafl writes: On 2012-03-17 12:11 AM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: An initramfs which does this is created by =sys-kernel/genkernel-3.4.25.1 or =sys-kernel/dracut-017-r1. If you do not want to use these tools, be sure any initramfs you create pre-mounts /usr. Ok, I have never used genkernel, and have no desire to... I started using it when I encrypted my whole hard drive, so I needed an initramfs. It worked just fine. I had to set MENUICONFIG=yes and CLEAN=no in genkernel.conf, if not I think genkernel generates a new .config which is not what I wanted. genkernel --install --lvm --luks all was all that is needed then. Yes, I read that you don't want to use it, but I thought I'd mention it just in case. I have no idea what dracut is or how to use it... I also did not use that yet. I have a remote system that has /usr on a separate partition. So... How do I find out if I am actually *using* an initramfs right now (I know it is built into the kernel), and I'd say if there is no initrd line in you grub.conf, and no corresponding file in /boot, you don't use one. And you're using Gentoo, where there is no automatic setup of initramfs stuff, so it is highly unlikely you are using one without knowing. If I am not, how do I do this without using genkernel? Is dracut the *only* other option? No, but probably the easiest. Is it easy/trivial to set one up manually? Hmm, not really. I did some experiments, but it was too much work for me, and I decided to use one of the tools (genkernel) that are available. You'd have to create a gzipped cpio archive containing all the needed stuff, binaries, libraries, kernel modules, and an init script which handles everything that needs be done, like mounting /usr. I cannot imagine that gentoo is just going to throw me to the wolves like this without providing *in-depth* instructions on how to make sure my system will boot after this update, like they did with the baselayout-2 update... I'm also wondering. Personally, I have no problem with not having a separate /usr any more, except that I have 3 remote systems that I manage right now that already *have* a separate /usr... On that note - is it possible, and if so, does anyone have any decent detailed How-to's on how I might be able to convert a separate /user to one on directly on / on a running system? Is your root partition large enough? Then just copy the stuff over: mount -o bind / /mnt # makes / available in /mnt, without other # partitions like /usr showing up there cp -a /usr /mnt/ And remove /usr from /etc/fstab before rebooting. If there's not enough space, you need to enlarge the partition. Very easy with LVM, but if you were using it on your root file system, you'd already be using an initramfs. If not, you need to take the machine down anyway and use gparted or something from a live-cd to adjust your partitions. Wonko
Re: [gentoo-user] Initramfs or move /usr to /, oh my...
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: [snip] Ok, I have never used genkernel, and have no desire to... I have no idea what dracut is or how to use it... I have a remote system that has /usr on a separate partition. So... How do I find out if I am actually *using* an initramfs right now (I know it is built into the kernel), and If I am not, how do I do this without using genkernel? Is dracut the *only* other option? Is it easy/trivial to set one up manually? udev is going to be unmasked, not stabilized. By the time udev gets into x86/amd64, hopefully the documentation necessary will be ready. You can suscribe to bug 407959 (https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=407959), which tracks the documentation changes necessary. Right now the only blocker is 408691 (https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=408691), but I'm sure it will be joined by more bugs in the near future. Devs are already working on the documentation. If you have a test spare machine, you can help them, and the whole Gentoo comunity. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
[gentoo-user] Re: Initramfs or move /usr to /, oh my...
On 03/18/2012 10:44 AM, Tanstaafl wrote: Creating a new thread for this questions since mine got lost in all of the follow-ups... I actually read a good response, but I can't possibly find it again :) I do recall that it said to look at your grub.conf (menu.lst) to see if grub passes an initrd= or rdinit= to the kernel during bootup. The other nifty hint was to add panic=10 as a kernel parameter in grub.conf (menu.lst) so that your remote system will reboot in 10 seconds if the kernel panics during boot. That will let you test (remotely) if a kernel parameter like noinitrd breaks your machine. I have a remote system that has /usr on a separate partition. So... How do I find out if I am actually *using* an initramfs right now (I know it is built into the kernel), and If I am not, how do I do this without using genkernel? Is dracut the *only* other option? Is it easy/trivial to set one up manually? I cannot imagine that gentoo is just going to throw me to the wolves like this without providing *in-depth* instructions on how to make sure my system will boot after this update, like they did with the baselayout-2 update... Personally, I have no problem with not having a separate /usr any more, except that I have 3 remote systems that I manage right now that already *have* a separate /usr... On that note - is it possible, and if so, does anyone have any decent detailed How-to's on how I might be able to convert a separate /user to one on directly on / on a running system?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 5:23 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: On Mar 18, 2012 3:52 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: If the config file doesn't exists, the service will not start, and you can check the reason why with systemctl status sshd.service And of course you can set another mini sevice unit file to create the hostkeys. But I repeat: I think those tasks belong into the package manager, no the init script. Between installation by package manager and actual execution by the init system, things might happen on the required file(s). Gentoo's initscript guards against this possibility *plus* providing helpful error messages in /var/rc.log Or, said configuration files might be corrupted; the OpenRC initscript -- if written defensively -- will be able to detect that and (perhaps) fallback to something sane. systemd can't do that, short of putting all required intelligence into a script which it executes on boot. That is a completely valid point, but I don't think that task belongs into the init system. The init system starts and stops services, and monitors them; checking for configuration files and creating hostkeys is part of the installation process. If something got corrupted between installation time and now, I would prefer my init system not to start a service; just please tell me that something is wrong. However, it's of course debatible. I agree with systemd's behavior; it's cleaner, more elegant, and it follows the Unix tradition: do one thing, and doing it right. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 5:23 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: On Mar 18, 2012 3:52 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: If the config file doesn't exists, the service will not start, and you can check the reason why with systemctl status sshd.service And of course you can set another mini sevice unit file to create the hostkeys. But I repeat: I think those tasks belong into the package manager, no the init script. Between installation by package manager and actual execution by the init system, things might happen on the required file(s). Gentoo's initscript guards against this possibility *plus* providing helpful error messages in /var/rc.log Or, said configuration files might be corrupted; the OpenRC initscript -- if written defensively -- will be able to detect that and (perhaps) fallback to something sane. systemd can't do that, short of putting all required intelligence into a script which it executes on boot. That is a completely valid point, but I don't think that task belongs into the init system. The init system starts and stops services, and monitors them; checking for configuration files and creating hostkeys is part of the installation process. If something got corrupted between installation time and now, I would prefer my init system not to start a service; just please tell me that something is wrong. However, it's of course debatible. I agree with systemd's behavior; it's cleaner, more elegant, and it follows the Unix tradition: do one thing, and doing it right. I like and see benefit to the systemd approach, honestly, but I don't think it necessarily follows to say that that belongs in the installation process, since it shouldn't be the responsibility of the init process. The way things sit currently, Gentoo doesn't default to adding new services to any runlevel, and in the process of setting up or reconfiguring a system, services may be added, removed, then possibly added again. Having a service's launch script perform one-time checks makes perfect sense in this regard. It's lazy evaluation; you don't do non-trivial work until you know it needs to be done. (And generating a 2048-bit or 4096-bit SSH key certainly qualifies as non-trivial work!) Also, I think the code golf argument is a poor one; how many lines something does to meet some particular goal ignores any other intended goals the compared object also meets. When you're comparing apples to apples, the argument is fine. When you're comparing apples to oranges, the argument is weakened; they're both fruits, but they still have different purposes in the larger context. In this case, I think the happy medium would be for systemd to start a service-provided launch script, which performs whatever additional checks are wanted or desired. Either way, it's the responsibility of whoever maintains the package for that service. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 13:25:32 -0600
Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:
Or, said configuration files might be corrupted; the OpenRC
initscript -- if written defensively -- will be able to detect that
and (perhaps) fallback to something sane. systemd can't do that,
short of putting all required intelligence into a script which it
executes on boot.
That is a completely valid point, but I don't think that task belongs
into the init system. The init system starts and stops services, and
monitors them; checking for configuration files and creating hostkeys
is part of the installation process. If something got corrupted
between installation time and now, I would prefer my init system not
to start a service; just please tell me that something is wrong.
I tend to agree. All most no daemons and services out there check that
their config files are not corrupt. At most they do syntax
checking, throw errors and leave it up to the caller to deal with it in
some appropriate manner. Most often, the caller is a human with a shell.
Same with sshd and all that checking that happens in the init script.
That stuff correctly belongs in the ebuild config phase, or as an
ad-hoc action done by the sysadmin whenever {,s}he feel like it. The
major point being, if the software itself does not perform a certain
check, then the launching script should also not concern itself with
those checks.
[There are exceptions of course, some stuff is brain-dead, like
tac_plus. Nice software, but if it can't write to it's own log files,
it silently stops working and doesn't tell you. To all intents it looks
like it works fine, but doesn't. Presumably, openssh does not fall in
that category of brain-dead software]
--
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] mdev for udev substitution instructions web page is up
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 01:06:00PM -0400, Michael Mol wrote I'm in #gentoo-wiki, now, and have been asked if I had permission to copy Walt's page. So...Walt, did I have permission to copy your page? Yes you did. My previous email should have beem enough. If they want explicit permission, copy this email to them. As I mentioned in my previous email, I'll be re-directing the web page to point to the wiki. Thanks very much for your work. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 01:25:32PM -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 5:23 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: On Mar 18, 2012 3:52 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: If the config file doesn't exists, the service will not start, and you can check the reason why with systemctl status sshd.service And of course you can set another mini sevice unit file to create the hostkeys. But I repeat: I think those tasks belong into the package manager, no the init script. Between installation by package manager and actual execution by the init system, things might happen on the required file(s). Gentoo's initscript guards against this possibility *plus* providing helpful error messages in /var/rc.log Or, said configuration files might be corrupted; the OpenRC initscript -- if written defensively -- will be able to detect that and (perhaps) fallback to something sane. systemd can't do that, short of putting all required intelligence into a script which it executes on boot. That is a completely valid point, but I don't think that task belongs into the init system. The init system starts and stops services, and monitors them; That I can agree upon. checking for configuration files and creating hostkeys is part of the installation process. But not this. Installation is a one-time event whose lifetime is over once installation is done. If something got corrupted between installation time and now, I would prefer my init system not to start a service; just please tell me that something is wrong. Obviously, a service itself knows best about its own config files. So *it* should check for the files and if they are invalid/non-existent, it should abort starting and notify the init system. -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' I forbid any use of my email addresses with Facebook services. Today’s stress is the good old times of the day after tomorrow. pgpXsMGgDtKkX.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Assistance if possible
On 03/18/12 09:32, Alex Schuster wrote: Colleen Beamer writes: Yes, I have activity manager in world, but I've unmasked all kde packages for version 4.8.1 and because of that, I can't get activitymanager installed because the latest verion for that is only 4.7.4 and I get told kactivities-4.8.1 blocks activitymanager.. I can get into KDE after my upgrade, but I can't move windows around, nor close or resize them. So I assume activitymanager is somehow needed. Anyway, moving windows around is KWin's responsibility, and has nothing to do with activities, they are more about switching sessions on the fly. I'd rename my ~/.kde4 directory and try again, maybe you have some corrupted config. Or try as another user. Does the problem persist? Wonko Thanks! Problems solved. I may have been using Gentoo for a while, but every once in a while, I have a learning curve. To explain: Yesterday, when I tried to update world, I got a bunch of messages because kde-4.7.4 packages were installed and some upgrades wanted changes to USE flags. I resolved the problem by unmerging and installing the masked packages for kde-4.8.1. Allan McKinnon was right in that I told emerge to bring in activity manager - despite the fact that I had unmerged version 4.7.4, I thought I needed it so had it in my package.keywords file. When I couldn't move windows around, I had an epiphany and realized that there must be other kde-base packages that needed to be upgraded to 4.8.1 because I had installed kdebase-meta when I was installing Linux on this computer back last summer when it was new. Anyway, I did the upgrades necessary for kdebase-meta and now everything is back to normal. So, thanks again, everyone that responded. Regards, Colleen -- Registered Linux User #411143 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org
[gentoo-user] Masking udev to postpone the update
I will update to the new world order, but would very much prefer to postpone that for a few weeks. Is it enough to put sys-fs/udev-171-r5 in /etc/portage/package.mask ? thanks, allan
Re: [gentoo-user] Masking udev to postpone the update
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 13:14:48 -0700 Allan Gottlieb gottl...@nyu.edu wrote: I will update to the new world order, but would very much prefer to postpone that for a few weeks. Is it enough to put sys-fs/udev-171-r5 in /etc/portage/package.mask ? =sys-fs/udev-181 would be better. Rather mask the first version that causes issues and all subsequent versions. With your suggestions, there may be future updates between 171 and 181 (without initrd issues) that you want, but you can't use them as you masked them. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Important package blocked by another important package
On 30 August 2011, at 03:27, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: … How can I get out of this: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild U ~] sys-apps/util-linux-2.20 [2.19.1-r1] USE=cramfs crypt ncurses nls perl unicode -loop-aes -old-linux (-selinux) -slang -static-libs% (-uclibc) 4,507 kB [blocks B ] sys-apps/sysvinit-2.88-r3 (sys-apps/sysvinit-2.88-r3 is blocking sys-apps/util-linux-2.20) Total: 1 package (1 upgrade), Size of downloads: 4,507 kB Conflict: 1 block (1 unsatisfied) * Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be * installed at the same time on the same system. For the benefit of x86 users, this pair of mutual blocks seems to have hit stable recently (in the last 5 weeks since I last updated world). Stable portage (2.1.10.44) doesn't automagically resolve the blocks. Seems like it's safe to resolve this with: emerge -C sys-apps/sysvinit emerge -1 sys-apps/util-linux sys-apps/sysvinit I've just done that and it's all completed happily with no errors. I haven't rebooted, yet, but I have a degree of confidence everything's ok with this. I guess there's no-one on this list who needs to know this (so please don't feel obligated to respond about how I should use an unstable portage which will handle these blockers automagically), but I make this comment for the sake of posterity and the archives, so it can be found on Google if anyone else is looking in the next few days, weeks or (heaven forbid!) months. April onwards, feel free to hit reply and ask me for an update. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
Eliezer Croitoru wrote: On 18/03/2012 11:52, Dale wrote: Peter Humphrey wrote: On Saturday 17 March 2012 12:54:53 Eliezer Croitoru wrote: genkernel is pretty simple to use if you ask me. just emerege genkernel and then use genkerenl --menuconfig all it will do everything for you the same as in a regular kernel compiling. you have instructions on how to use genkernel on the handbook. What's more, you don't have to keep going through menuconfig if you already have a running self-compiled kernel. Just copy the .config file to somewhere safe (I use, e.g. /boot/config-3.2) and call genkernel with the option to specify the config file it's to use. Sorry but I can't tell you exactly what the parameter is as I don't have genkernel on this box. Someone will be along in a moment though. I used genkernel when I was first installing Gentoo. I let that thing build half a dozen kernels, chroot in between too. You know what, not one of them worked. That was a long time ago but let me check something here. spit spit spit I had to get the bad taste out of my mouth. lol I might also add, I started using a init thingy a few weeks ago, dracut tool. For some crazy reason, when I boot with the init thingy, my system doesn't work right. When I boot without the init thingy, it works fine. Still trying to figure out that one. It's in another thread. I don't see myself using genkernel any time soon. Right now, I'm having flashbacks to hal with regard to dracut and the whole init thingy /usr mess. i have used genkernel for a long time and all of my genkernel compilation works really good. i have (counting, 1 very very big production server, 2 small production server, 3 home server, 4 +5 +6 + 7 +8 of vms runing genkernel with several services such as mail mail filtering web server and monitoring) so what can i say? all these machines will say other then you. Regards, Eliezer Dale :-) :-) Odd, it can work on all those yet fail on a relatively simple system. Makes one wonder. Maybe it is to complicated? Sort of starting to sound like udev isn't it? lol I didn't say it would fail for the OP. I just said it never worked for me. Compiling my own has worked for me. I have only had one failure with that. I might also add, I have read where others have nightmares about genkernel. I'm not the only one. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words! Miss the compile output? Hint: EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--quiet-build=n
Re: [gentoo-user] Initramfs or move /usr to /, oh my...
Tanstaafl wrote: Creating a new thread for this questions since mine got lost in all of the follow-ups... I would really appreciate a meaningful response to this question (maybe I should go ask this on -dev?) - this has the potential to lose me forever as a gentoo user (I'm sure none of you are crying over that, but *I* am), and I've seen other similar comments... I'm thinking of FreeBSD too (and PCBSD for my desktop)... Anyway... On 2012-03-17 12:11 AM, Bruce Hill, Jr. da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: An initramfs which does this is created by =sys-kernel/genkernel-3.4.25.1 or =sys-kernel/dracut-017-r1. If you do not want to use these tools, be sure any initramfs you create pre-mounts /usr. Ok, I have never used genkernel, and have no desire to... I have no idea what dracut is or how to use it... I have a remote system that has /usr on a separate partition. So... How do I find out if I am actually *using* an initramfs right now (I know it is built into the kernel), and If I am not, how do I do this without using genkernel? Is dracut the *only* other option? Is it easy/trivial to set one up manually? I cannot imagine that gentoo is just going to throw me to the wolves like this without providing *in-depth* instructions on how to make sure my system will boot after this update, like they did with the baselayout-2 update... Personally, I have no problem with not having a separate /usr any more, except that I have 3 remote systems that I manage right now that already *have* a separate /usr... On that note - is it possible, and if so, does anyone have any decent detailed How-to's on how I might be able to convert a separate /user to one on directly on / on a running system? I'm going to add this. I have been using a init thingy that I used dracut to build. When I boot using the init thingy, my system doesn't work right. I am able to reproduce this too. Right now, if I use the init thingy, I can't use part of my system that for me is vital. I can't switch from user to root in anything, not even a console. So right now, I'm having to boot without the init thingy and still want to migrate /usr to LVM. That is certainly not going to happen right now. My advice, mask udev to what works for you until all this mess get sorted out. The first time someone tries to ssh in as a user, then su to root, they are going to have a bad day if they run into the issue I am having. Remember, most admins set remote systems not to allow root to login directly as a security feature. That's what I have read anyway. Just keep it so you can use it until you know the bugs are sorted out. I'm still trying to figure mine out. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words! Miss the compile output? Hint: EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--quiet-build=n
[gentoo-user] quickpkg on a complete system?
Hi, I have a system in which I've never used the buildpkg feature so I have no packages. The machine is completely up to date - i.e. - emerge -DuN @world does nothing new. I know if I turn on buildpkg and do an emerge -e @world, assuming all the compiling completes without error, emerge will create packages for everything that's install. That however takes lots of time. I was reading about the quickpkg feature which supposedly creates packages from what's already installed, but I'm not sure how to actually run that for a complete system like this. If I put FEATURES=quickpkg in make.conf and run emerge -e @world, will emerge simply make the packages for anything that's already installed, but not actually compile the packages themselves? Thanks, Mark
[gentoo-user] Re: quickpkg on a complete system?
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have a system in which I've never used the buildpkg feature so I have no packages. The machine is completely up to date - i.e. - emerge -DuN @world does nothing new. I know if I turn on buildpkg and do an emerge -e @world, assuming all the compiling completes without error, emerge will create packages for everything that's install. That however takes lots of time. I was reading about the quickpkg feature which supposedly creates packages from what's already installed, but I'm not sure how to actually run that for a complete system like this. If I put FEATURES=quickpkg in make.conf and run emerge -e @world, will emerge simply make the packages for anything that's already installed, but not actually compile the packages themselves? Thanks, Mark OK, silly confusion on my part. quickpkg isn't a portage feature, it's a Python script installed as part of portage. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] quickpkg on a complete system?
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 14:18:22 -0700 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have a system in which I've never used the buildpkg feature so I have no packages. The machine is completely up to date - i.e. - emerge -DuN @world does nothing new. I know if I turn on buildpkg and do an emerge -e @world, assuming all the compiling completes without error, emerge will create packages for everything that's install. That however takes lots of time. I was reading about the quickpkg feature which supposedly creates packages from what's already installed, but I'm not sure how to actually run that for a complete system like this. If I put FEATURES=quickpkg in make.conf and run emerge -e @world, will emerge simply make the packages for anything that's already installed, but not actually compile the packages themselves? Thanks, Mark RTFM :-) man quickpkg lists quickpkg @system in the examples section. quickpkg @world works and does what you expect - tar and gzips the entire package as it is on-disk. As to what is in the quickpkg, it's the same list as you get from equery files pkg_name. Thereafter, enable FEATURES=quickpkg and portage will keep everything new up to date. Also read up on eclean, which helps to remove old quickpkg cruft -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Can no longer use symlinks in /etc/init.d with openrc-0.9.8.4 ?
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 08:31:21PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 16 Feb 2012 23:14:19 +0700, Pandu Poluan wrote: What I meant was, I rely on ls to remind me (or other sysadmins) that the file is special and should not be edited willy-nilly. I don't want a well-meaning but misguided minion to 'taint' the mercurial repo. Makes sense. However, if symlinks have stopped working, there was either a conscious design decision or you've found a new bug. Do you think I should bring this question to -dev, or file a bug? I'd file a bug, then progress can be tracked. If it is a design decision, the bug will be closed soon enough. All, actually this is an issue which whas been around since the beginning of openrc. We thought we had a fix, but the fix caused several regressions and was reverted: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=350910. If you read that bug, the issue is pretty complex, because it relates to the location and name of the conf.d file as well as the settings of some of openrc's environment variables. I haven't looked at this issue in a while, but I can say that the fix is far from trivial. William pgpz0v2e5lkEk.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Masking udev to postpone the update
Am Sonntag, 18. März 2012, 13:14:48 schrieb Allan Gottlieb: I will update to the new world order, but would very much prefer to postpone that for a few weeks. Is it enough to put sys-fs/udev-171-r5 in /etc/portage/package.mask ? I have masked 171 and everything above for a while now. So far nothing bad happened. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 03:15:02PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote Here's what I want: When the machine starts, I want services X, Y and Z to run. The software figures out what order they must start in and how the deps work. Clean, neat, easy. systemd is like Captain Picard of STTNG (Start Trek The Next Generation) always saying make it so. *HOW DO YOU MAKE IT SO? That intelligence has to be somewhere. So what alternative do you propose? A bash or ash script is more guaranteed to run than a binary. Shoving all that intelligence into the service itself, means that the service has to start up in order to determine whether it's safe for the service to start up. What's wrong with this picture? And if systemd is so great, here's my supersystemd #!/bin/bash ... ... /etc/init.d/net.lo start /etc/init.d/net.eth0 start /etc/init.d/net.sshd start etc, etc, etc -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org
[gentoo-user] Re: Initramfs or move /usr to /, oh my...
On 03/18/2012 11:52 AM, walt wrote: The other nifty hint was to add panic=10 as a kernel parameter in grub.conf (menu.lst) so that your remote system will reboot in 10 seconds if the kernel panics during boot. That will let you test (remotely) if a kernel parameter like noinitrd breaks your machine. Heh. I learn a lot from reading my posts -- when I figure out why my first reply was wrong :p Now that I've thought about it, I assume you have only ssh access to your remote machine, so you can't see the grub boot prompt, right? Maybe the remote machine doesn't even pause at the boot prompt because no one is there to watch it? I'm curious how remote servers work in real life because in my next life I wanna come back as a sysadmin :)
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 15:39:59 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Eliezer Croitoru wrote: On 18/03/2012 11:52, Dale wrote: Peter Humphrey wrote: On Saturday 17 March 2012 12:54:53 Eliezer Croitoru wrote: genkernel is pretty simple to use if you ask me. just emerege genkernel and then use genkerenl --menuconfig all it will do everything for you the same as in a regular kernel compiling. you have instructions on how to use genkernel on the handbook. What's more, you don't have to keep going through menuconfig if you already have a running self-compiled kernel. Just copy the .config file to somewhere safe (I use, e.g. /boot/config-3.2) and call genkernel with the option to specify the config file it's to use. Sorry but I can't tell you exactly what the parameter is as I don't have genkernel on this box. Someone will be along in a moment though. I used genkernel when I was first installing Gentoo. I let that thing build half a dozen kernels, chroot in between too. You know what, not one of them worked. That was a long time ago but let me check something here. spit spit spit I had to get the bad taste out of my mouth. lol I might also add, I started using a init thingy a few weeks ago, dracut tool. For some crazy reason, when I boot with the init thingy, my system doesn't work right. When I boot without the init thingy, it works fine. Still trying to figure out that one. It's in another thread. I don't see myself using genkernel any time soon. Right now, I'm having flashbacks to hal with regard to dracut and the whole init thingy /usr mess. i have used genkernel for a long time and all of my genkernel compilation works really good. i have (counting, 1 very very big production server, 2 small production server, 3 home server, 4 +5 +6 + 7 +8 of vms runing genkernel with several services such as mail mail filtering web server and monitoring) so what can i say? all these machines will say other then you. Regards, Eliezer Dale :-) :-) Odd, it can work on all those yet fail on a relatively simple system. Makes one wonder. Maybe it is to complicated? Sort of starting to sound like udev isn't it? lol I didn't say it would fail for the OP. I just said it never worked for me. Compiling my own has worked for me. I have only had one failure with that. I might also add, I have read where others have nightmares about genkernel. I'm not the only one. And using genkernel is pretty fucking pointless while it doesn't support suspend/resume right. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I don;t use genkernel so don;t know the truth from experience. I only read what others say, claiming that genkernel doesn't support suspend/resume. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 18:23:37 -0400 Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 03:15:02PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote Here's what I want: When the machine starts, I want services X, Y and Z to run. The software figures out what order they must start in and how the deps work. Clean, neat, easy. systemd is like Captain Picard of STTNG (Start Trek The Next Generation) always saying make it so. *HOW DO YOU MAKE IT SO? That intelligence has to be somewhere. So what alternative do you propose? A bash or ash script is more guaranteed to run than a binary. Shoving all that intelligence into the service itself, means that the service has to start up in order to determine whether it's safe for the service to start up. What's wrong with this picture? The intelligence goes in the init system's config file for that service of course. I know I didn't clearly say so, but that's where it goes. The information isn't complicated, you need some BEFORE and AFTER type settings and various other bits and pieces (pid files etc). For services that don't behave nicely when stopped and started in regular ways, supply start/stop/restart/reload functions in the same file that override the defaults. In principle it mirrors exactly how portage works with ebuilds. And if systemd is so great, here's my supersystemd #!/bin/bash ... ... /etc/init.d/net.lo start /etc/init.d/net.eth0 start /etc/init.d/net.sshd start etc, etc, etc No no, you misunderstand me. I'm not saying necessarily that systemd is great. I'm saying that sysvinit sucks big-time and we've needed something better for 15 years. Systemd's design seems to fit that bill nicely (whether it does it in practice remains to be seen) -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] mdev for udev substitution instructions web page is up
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 01:06:00PM -0400, Michael Mol wrote I'm in #gentoo-wiki, now, and have been asked if I had permission to copy Walt's page. So...Walt, did I have permission to copy your page? Yes you did. My previous email should have beem enough. If they want explicit permission, copy this email to them. As I mentioned in my previous email, I'll be re-directing the web page to point to the wiki. Thanks very much for your work. Hey, I haven't been able to help test, but wiki editing is part of my hobby. It's the least I could do. I'll just hand them a link to your email when it pops up on archives.gentoo.org. Hey, there it is! http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/msg_acc1deaf79fd8f1536add7c5c2daf24a.xml -- :wq
[gentoo-user] Re: Initramfs or move /usr to /, oh my...
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 13:44:07 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: I cannot imagine that gentoo is just going to throw me to the wolves like this without providing *in-depth* instructions on how to make sure my system will boot after this update, like they did with the baselayout-2 update... They plan to provide transition and hope to do better than with the baselayout-2 transition. I haven't tried to dig up the posts saying so, as there is a much noise about all this on the dev list as here.
[gentoo-user] Re: Masking udev to postpone the update
On 03/18/2012 03:22 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Sonntag, 18. März 2012, 13:14:48 schrieb Allan Gottlieb: I will update to the new world order, but would very much prefer to postpone that for a few weeks. Is it enough to put sys-fs/udev-171-r5 in /etc/portage/package.mask ? I have masked 171 and everything above for a while now. So far nothing bad happened. Wait, didn't you recently say that you don't see any reason to keep / and /usr separate any longer? Why not combine them and let udev update as the devs recommend? Did I misunderstand you?
Re: [gentoo-user] quickpkg on a complete system?
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 14:18:22 -0700 Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have a system in which I've never used the buildpkg feature so I have no packages. The machine is completely up to date - i.e. - emerge -DuN @world does nothing new. I know if I turn on buildpkg and do an emerge -e @world, assuming all the compiling completes without error, emerge will create packages for everything that's install. That however takes lots of time. I was reading about the quickpkg feature which supposedly creates packages from what's already installed, but I'm not sure how to actually run that for a complete system like this. If I put FEATURES=quickpkg in make.conf and run emerge -e @world, will emerge simply make the packages for anything that's already installed, but not actually compile the packages themselves? Thanks, Mark RTFM :-) man quickpkg lists quickpkg @system in the examples section. Yeah, my bad and you're right about that, although if you thought it was a portage FEATURE and ''man buildpkg' doesn't return anything then you wouldn't even go looking for man quickpkg. (Or I didn't) quickpkg @world works and does what you expect - tar and gzips the entire package as it is on-disk. As to what is in the quickpkg, it's the same list as you get from equery files pkg_name. Yep, already done for the system in question. The first pass quickpkg --include-config=y @world only built the files specified by the @world set and not all the deep stuff so I ended up with eix -Ic --only-names | xargs quickpkg --include-config=y which seems to doing the job, although it's still running so I'll have to count the packages when it completes. Thereafter, enable FEATURES=quickpkg and portage will keep everything new up to date. Actually I suspect that's supposed to be FEATURES=buildpkg which I use on other machines here at home. Also read up on eclean, which helps to remove old quickpkg cruft Yep, already use it. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com Thanks! - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Initramfs or move /usr to /, oh my...
On Mar 19, 2012 5:31 AM, walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/18/2012 11:52 AM, walt wrote: The other nifty hint was to add panic=10 as a kernel parameter in grub.conf (menu.lst) so that your remote system will reboot in 10 seconds if the kernel panics during boot. That will let you test (remotely) if a kernel parameter like noinitrd breaks your machine. Heh. I learn a lot from reading my posts -- when I figure out why my first reply was wrong :p Now that I've thought about it, I assume you have only ssh access to your remote machine, so you can't see the grub boot prompt, right? Maybe the remote machine doesn't even pause at the boot prompt because no one is there to watch it? I'm curious how remote servers work in real life because in my next life I wanna come back as a sysadmin :) When I started administering remote servers, Citrix's XenServer is Good Enough™ to deploy in production, so now it's the first thing I install on a virgin box, even if said virgin box will host only one VM. This provides me with a usable Virtual Console through which I can watch the boot process. Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] quickpkg on a complete system?
On Mar 19, 2012 6:13 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: 8 snip eix -Ic --only-names | xargs quickpkg --include-config=y which seems to doing the job, although it's still running so I'll have to count the packages when it completes. I personally would use xargs' -P and -n options to introduce some parallelism. But I haven't actually tested that :-) Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] Masking udev to postpone the update
On Sun, Mar 18 2012, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 13:14:48 -0700 Allan Gottlieb gottl...@nyu.edu wrote: I will update to the new world order, but would very much prefer to postpone that for a few weeks. Is it enough to put sys-fs/udev-171-r5 in /etc/portage/package.mask ? =sys-fs/udev-181 would be better. Rather mask the first version that causes issues and all subsequent versions. With your suggestions, there may be future updates between 171 and 181 (without initrd issues) that you want, but you can't use them as you masked them. Done, thanks. Thank you volker as well. allan
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Power management or something?
I have a fresh install of Gentoo on my laptop and I'm having some trouble with the backlight that I think is related to the screen going into some sort of power save mode or something along those lines. Are there power management settings somewhere or something similar? I'm on xfce4. - Grant I found another clue. It happens whenever I shut my laptop screen, even for a moment. Is this some kind of sleep mode? Might I be able to disable it in the kernel somewhere? - Grant I had that same issue with closing the screen. I think my solution was a KDE setting which won't help you unless there is something similar with XFCE. I'll boot the laptop and see if I Can spot what I did. Ah the things we have time for when watching Hulu on a Sunday morning... ;-) Back later, Mark Keeping in mind that I'm _not_ using or even testing backlighting, the place where I controlled whether the laptop got screen locked or hibernated was in the KDE System Settings app where I disabled all such stuff. Now the screen just goes black when the lid is closed, saving some power, but nothing locks, sleeps, hibernates or any other such response. I did nothing in the kernel that I see. HTH, Mark Thanks Mark. I installed xfce4-power-manager thinking it would do the trick for sure, but unfortunately the behavior is the same even after messing with the settings. Weird - Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 15:39:59 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Eliezer Croitoru wrote: On 18/03/2012 11:52, Dale wrote: Peter Humphrey wrote: On Saturday 17 March 2012 12:54:53 Eliezer Croitoru wrote: genkernel is pretty simple to use if you ask me. just emerege genkernel and then use genkerenl --menuconfig all it will do everything for you the same as in a regular kernel compiling. you have instructions on how to use genkernel on the handbook. What's more, you don't have to keep going through menuconfig if you already have a running self-compiled kernel. Just copy the .config file to somewhere safe (I use, e.g. /boot/config-3.2) and call genkernel with the option to specify the config file it's to use. Sorry but I can't tell you exactly what the parameter is as I don't have genkernel on this box. Someone will be along in a moment though. I used genkernel when I was first installing Gentoo. I let that thing build half a dozen kernels, chroot in between too. You know what, not one of them worked. That was a long time ago but let me check something here. spit spit spit I had to get the bad taste out of my mouth. lol I might also add, I started using a init thingy a few weeks ago, dracut tool. For some crazy reason, when I boot with the init thingy, my system doesn't work right. When I boot without the init thingy, it works fine. Still trying to figure out that one. It's in another thread. I don't see myself using genkernel any time soon. Right now, I'm having flashbacks to hal with regard to dracut and the whole init thingy /usr mess. i have used genkernel for a long time and all of my genkernel compilation works really good. i have (counting, 1 very very big production server, 2 small production server, 3 home server, 4 +5 +6 + 7 +8 of vms runing genkernel with several services such as mail mail filtering web server and monitoring) so what can i say? all these machines will say other then you. Regards, Eliezer Dale :-) :-) Odd, it can work on all those yet fail on a relatively simple system. Makes one wonder. Maybe it is to complicated? Sort of starting to sound like udev isn't it? lol I didn't say it would fail for the OP. I just said it never worked for me. Compiling my own has worked for me. I have only had one failure with that. I might also add, I have read where others have nightmares about genkernel. I'm not the only one. And using genkernel is pretty fucking pointless while it doesn't support suspend/resume right. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I don;t use genkernel so don;t know the truth from experience. I only read what others say, claiming that genkernel doesn't support suspend/resume. Resume/suspend or hibernate/whatever-the-inverse-of-hibernate-is-called? Because resume/suspend has nothing to do with an initramfs (being genkernel or dracut or whatever), since it doesn't boot the machine again (contrary to hibernate/whatever-etc.) My laptop has used dracut since months ago, and suspends/resumes just fine, as it does my media center. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
[gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?
I like gentoo; there's a steep learning curve but after you pass that it just clicks. As difficult as it ever became there was always an answer to be found, on a blog, irc, documentaiton... But I might have to give up on gentoo if I can't find a way to fix this latest difficulty. I live in the hinterland where there is no broadband. I have to make do with a dialup modem over ~10mi of copper wire. Now I find I can no longer dialup the internet using ppp command #pon isp. The modem lights come on and the log says the DNS have been all been assigned. status=0x0. But I can't ping out. 'Host unreachable'. As slow as my connection is, I've always been able to sync portage and use bash to write a link file which I can download at the free wifi in town. Now I can't even do that. I suspect this has something to do with the openrc which seems to be steadily improving.. There are no error msgs other than the ping error above. I'm sure this is gentoo specific because it doesn't affect the Ubuntu side of my pc(yet ;().where I'm typing this. In ubuntu I have to rmmod my wifi and ethn drivers or the same thing happens: modem lights up, log says everything fine, but no internet. Once every other bit of net hardware comes down, the web is reachable. This USED to be the case for gentoo as well, but now, even that doesn't help. The landline gets no respect. Now gmail is making angry noises cause I won't give them my mobile number. But I don't have one. There isn't even coverage out here. Broadband and dialup used to get along but those days seem to be gone. Hope somebody can see a way out. MW
Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Maxim Wexler maxim.wex...@gmail.com wrote: I like gentoo; there's a steep learning curve but after you pass that it just clicks. As difficult as it ever became there was always an answer to be found, on a blog, irc, documentaiton... But I might have to give up on gentoo if I can't find a way to fix this latest difficulty. I live in the hinterland where there is no broadband. I have to make do with a dialup modem over ~10mi of copper wire. Now I find I can no longer dialup the internet using ppp command #pon isp. The modem lights come on and the log says the DNS have been all been assigned. status=0x0. But I can't ping out. 'Host unreachable'. As slow as my connection is, I've always been able to sync portage and use bash to write a link file which I can download at the free wifi in town. Now I can't even do that. I suspect this has something to do with the openrc which seems to be steadily improving.. There are no error msgs other than the ping error above. I'm sure this is gentoo specific because it doesn't affect the Ubuntu side of my pc(yet ;().where I'm typing this. In ubuntu I have to rmmod my wifi and ethn drivers or the same thing happens: modem lights up, log says everything fine, but no internet. Once every other bit of net hardware comes down, the web is reachable. This USED to be the case for gentoo as well, but now, even that doesn't help. The landline gets no respect. Now gmail is making angry noises cause I won't give them my mobile number. But I don't have one. There isn't even coverage out here. Broadband and dialup used to get along but those days seem to be gone. Hope somebody can see a way out. This is far from ideal, but I have been able to work around situations like this. You need to rsync the portage tree by hand to a USB drive in the wi-fi cafe, and then rsync again by hand in your house. Then, you run: emerge --metadata Then, you get the list of URLs you need to download to emerge world: emerge -uDNvfp world urls You need to edit the file to remove duplicates and redundant mirrors (I can usually do it inside emacs in two minutes or less), and then check what files you already have in /usr/portage/distfiles (with a tiny bash script). You get the list of files you need, and only select those from the list of URLs, and then you have the files you need to download. You go back to the wi-fi cafe, download the files on a USB drive, and return home to put them on /usr/portage/distfiles. And then you can upgrade world. It sucks, since you need to drive twice to the wi-fi cafe, but it works. Hope it helps. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Goodbye to gentoo?
On 19/03/2012 02:52, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: On 19/03/12 02:36, Maxim Wexler wrote: As slow as my connection is, I've always been able to sync portage and use bash to write a link file which I can download at the free wifi in town. Now I can't even do that. Get satellite Internet :-P and it will cost him fortune... if you do have dial-up connection it's really annoying to use gentoo. if you do know what you want to build your system for and with you can handle it. but if you want to change some stuff you will need to make the whole trip and i think it's not worth it. what are you doing with the computer? -- Eliezer Croitoru https://www1.ngtech.co.il IT consulting for Nonprofit organizations elilezer at ngtech.co.il
[gentoo-user] Re: Goodbye to gentoo?
On 19/03/12 03:01, Eliezer Croitoru wrote: On 19/03/2012 02:52, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: On 19/03/12 02:36, Maxim Wexler wrote: As slow as my connection is, I've always been able to sync portage and use bash to write a link file which I can download at the free wifi in town. Now I can't even do that. Get satellite Internet :-P and it will cost him fortune... The equipment is not cheap, yes. Around $600. The subscription fee though is OK. It's just $60 to $80 a month.
Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?
On Sun, 2012-03-18 at 18:36 -0600, Maxim Wexler wrote: I like gentoo; there's a steep learning curve but after you pass that it just clicks. As difficult as it ever became there was always an answer to be found, on a blog, irc, documentaiton... But I might have to give up on gentoo if I can't find a way to fix this latest difficulty. I live in the hinterland where there is no broadband. I have to make do with a dialup modem over ~10mi of copper wire. Now I find I can no longer dialup the internet using ppp command #pon isp. The modem lights come on and the log says the DNS have been all been assigned. status=0x0. But I can't ping out. 'Host unreachable'. As slow as my connection is, I've always been able to sync portage and use bash to write a link file which I can download at the free wifi in town. Now I can't even do that. I suspect this has something to do with the openrc which seems to be steadily improving.. There are no error msgs other than the ping error above. I'm sure this is gentoo specific because it doesn't affect the Ubuntu side of my pc(yet ;().where I'm typing this. In ubuntu I have to rmmod my wifi and ethn drivers or the same thing happens: modem lights up, log says everything fine, but no internet. Once every other bit of net hardware comes down, the web is reachable. This USED to be the case for gentoo as well, but now, even that doesn't help. The landline gets no respect. Now gmail is making angry noises cause I won't give them my mobile number. But I don't have one. There isn't even coverage out here. Broadband and dialup used to get along but those days seem to be gone. Hope somebody can see a way out. MW Hi Maxim, what changed when the modem stopped working? Also can you supply the output of the route -n and ifconfig commands to give us a chance of seeing if anything has gone adrift there. Also if you are using (and have tested that its not the problem) any firewall running. When I was on dialup, routing (issues) was always a problem and if your modem comes up and ppp is working (i.e., dns has been assigned) this is a possibility. BillK
Re: [gentoo-user] Initramfs or move /usr to /, oh my...
On March 18, 2012 at 2:52 PM Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: [snip] Ok, I have never used genkernel, and have no desire to... I have no idea what dracut is or how to use it... I have a remote system that has /usr on a separate partition. So... How do I find out if I am actually *using* an initramfs right now (I know it is built into the kernel), and ls -l /boot/ will tell you. There is a difference between an initrd (initial RAM disk) image (simple) and an initramfs (initial RAM filesystem) (complicated). Gentoo used to have a script called mkinitrd. It was removed before I migrated to Gentoo, but I should look in attic to see if it's still there. To date I've found no one in Gentoo who will even discuss it. Slackware has used mkinitrd for ions, and it still works very efficiently there. Of course, Eric Hameleers understands the script, and Slackware's init scripts, and maintains mkinitrd. Maybe in Gentoo somebody upstream scared people with initramfs, like they're doing with this horrible systemd idea, and whoever maintained mkinitrd just cowered in the corner and dropped the ball. Who knows? The bottom line is that officially Gentoo has abandoned initrd for initramfs. You can write a script to make an initrd, as people do all the time. But don't look for official Gentoo support for it. It seems to me after a year around Gentoo that things get so complicated, and upstream gets to force things on Gentoo (such as systemd), because there are just too many different developers. All are human with different opinions, so you wind up with people going off in different directions with no cohesive ability to stand against upstream. IOW, we're too forked within Gentoo. For instance, the maintainer of ConsoleKit in Gentoo (Gnome herd guy) says he doesn't care about systemd, he's maintaining ConsoleKit and it's not going anywhere. (We'll see...) Anyway ... for more on Gentoo's initramfs read http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Initramfs If I am not, how do I do this without using genkernel? Is dracut the *only* other option? Is it easy/trivial to set one up manually? On March 18, 2012 at 2:52 PM Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com prattled: udev is going to be unmasked, not stabilized. By the time udev gets into x86/amd64, hopefully the documentation necessary will be ready. That's you telling the world what an asinine idea this drastic change is ... when it's the stable version, which most of the unsuspecting Gentoo userbase will emerge, hopefully the documentation necessary will be ready. Par for the Poettering course. You can suscribe to bug 407959 (https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=407959), which tracks the documentation changes necessary. Right now the only blocker is 408691 (https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=408691), but I'm sure it will be joined by more bugs in the near future. Devs are already working on the documentation. If you have a test spare machine, you can help them, and the whole Gentoo comunity. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés udev is already unmasked, and stabilized at 171-r5 now... You need to explain what you mean ... you're probably talking about udev-181 Please don't encourage people who don't understand what's happening to test nefarious software ideas. There is nothing about this that's going to help the whole Gentoo community. -- Happy Penguin Computers`) 126 Fenco Drive( \ Tupelo, MS 38801^^ 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 support at happypenguincomputers dot com http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
Re: [gentoo-user] The End Is Near ... or, get the vaseline, they're on the way!
On Sun, 2012-03-18 at 18:30 -0600, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 15:39:59 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Eliezer Croitoru wrote: On 18/03/2012 11:52, Dale wrote: Peter Humphrey wrote: On Saturday 17 March 2012 12:54:53 Eliezer Croitoru wrote: genkernel is pretty simple to use if you ask me. just emerege genkernel and then use genkerenl --menuconfig all it will do everything for you the same as in a regular kernel compiling. you have instructions on how to use genkernel on the handbook. What's more, you don't have to keep going through menuconfig if you already have a running self-compiled kernel. Just copy the .config file to somewhere safe (I use, e.g. /boot/config-3.2) and call genkernel with the option to specify the config file it's to use. Sorry but I can't tell you exactly what the parameter is as I don't have genkernel on this box. Someone will be along in a moment though. I used genkernel when I was first installing Gentoo. I let that thing build half a dozen kernels, chroot in between too. You know what, not one of them worked. That was a long time ago but let me check something here. spit spit spit I had to get the bad taste out of my mouth. lol I might also add, I started using a init thingy a few weeks ago, dracut tool. For some crazy reason, when I boot with the init thingy, my system doesn't work right. When I boot without the init thingy, it works fine. Still trying to figure out that one. It's in another thread. I don't see myself using genkernel any time soon. Right now, I'm having flashbacks to hal with regard to dracut and the whole init thingy /usr mess. i have used genkernel for a long time and all of my genkernel compilation works really good. i have (counting, 1 very very big production server, 2 small production server, 3 home server, 4 +5 +6 + 7 +8 of vms runing genkernel with several services such as mail mail filtering web server and monitoring) so what can i say? all these machines will say other then you. Regards, Eliezer Dale :-) :-) Odd, it can work on all those yet fail on a relatively simple system. Makes one wonder. Maybe it is to complicated? Sort of starting to sound like udev isn't it? lol I didn't say it would fail for the OP. I just said it never worked for me. Compiling my own has worked for me. I have only had one failure with that. I might also add, I have read where others have nightmares about genkernel. I'm not the only one. And using genkernel is pretty fucking pointless while it doesn't support suspend/resume right. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I don;t use genkernel so don;t know the truth from experience. I only read what others say, claiming that genkernel doesn't support suspend/resume. Resume/suspend or hibernate/whatever-the-inverse-of-hibernate-is-called? Because resume/suspend has nothing to do with an initramfs (being genkernel or dracut or whatever), since it doesn't boot the machine again (contrary to hibernate/whatever-etc.) My laptop has used dracut since months ago, and suspends/resumes just fine, as it does my media center. Regards. Genkernel doesnt, bugs and work arounds on gentoo bugzilla, with angry comments from a dev that it wont be supported and to not file bugs for it - now that dev has moved on I dont know if enough has changed to test the waters and file a bug again. Its missing a hook in the initrd to call the binary that starts the resume process. I was reading where dracut needs a lot of work still, so despite my previous bad experiences with genkernel in the past I went that way as the suspend fix is available. People generally just call it suspend/resume but technically, suspend/resume is often used to refer to suspend to ram, and hibernate is for suspend to disk - I use suspend to disk but generally just call it suspend/resume as (non-tech) people I talk to know what I mean. Calling it hibernate usually has them asking questions. It does work, as I said in a previous post, but the whole initrd thing is a disaster waiting to happen - and dont say to me it works for Red Hat as proof that it must be good because thats the distro where my most major initrd embarrassment occurred (update getting missmatched versions and fail to reboot.) Your experience may be different to mine, but I am of the once bitten, twice shy persuasion. Whatever happened to Linux/Unix and its focus on KISS as a major pillar of its stability? BillK
Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?
On Mar 19, 2012 8:51 AM, William Kenworthy bi...@iinet.net.au wrote: On Sun, 2012-03-18 at 18:36 -0600, Maxim Wexler wrote: I like gentoo; there's a steep learning curve but after you pass that it just clicks. As difficult as it ever became there was always an answer to be found, on a blog, irc, documentaiton... But I might have to give up on gentoo if I can't find a way to fix this latest difficulty. I live in the hinterland where there is no broadband. I have to make do with a dialup modem over ~10mi of copper wire. Now I find I can no longer dialup the internet using ppp command #pon isp. The modem lights come on and the log says the DNS have been all been assigned. status=0x0. But I can't ping out. 'Host unreachable'. As slow as my connection is, I've always been able to sync portage and use bash to write a link file which I can download at the free wifi in town. Now I can't even do that. I suspect this has something to do with the openrc which seems to be steadily improving.. There are no error msgs other than the ping error above. I'm sure this is gentoo specific because it doesn't affect the Ubuntu side of my pc(yet ;().where I'm typing this. In ubuntu I have to rmmod my wifi and ethn drivers or the same thing happens: modem lights up, log says everything fine, but no internet. Once every other bit of net hardware comes down, the web is reachable. This USED to be the case for gentoo as well, but now, even that doesn't help. The landline gets no respect. Now gmail is making angry noises cause I won't give them my mobile number. But I don't have one. There isn't even coverage out here. Broadband and dialup used to get along but those days seem to be gone. Hope somebody can see a way out. MW Hi Maxim, what changed when the modem stopped working? Also can you supply the output of the route -n and ifconfig commands to give us a chance of seeing if anything has gone adrift there. Also if you are using (and have tested that its not the problem) any firewall running. When I was on dialup, routing (issues) was always a problem and if your modem comes up and ppp is working (i.e., dns has been assigned) this is a possibility. BillK Hmmm... This happening after openrc upgrade? Can you post the contents of /etc/conf.d/net also? Rgds,
[gentoo-user] Re: Initramfs or move /usr to /, oh my...
On 03/18/2012 04:31 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote: On Mar 19, 2012 5:31 AM, walt w41...@gmail.com mailto:w41...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/18/2012 11:52 AM, walt wrote: The other nifty hint was to add panic=10 as a kernel parameter in grub.conf (menu.lst) so that your remote system will reboot in 10 seconds if the kernel panics during boot. That will let you test (remotely) if a kernel parameter like noinitrd breaks your machine. Heh. I learn a lot from reading my posts -- when I figure out why my first reply was wrong :p Now that I've thought about it, I assume you have only ssh access to your remote machine, so you can't see the grub boot prompt, right? Maybe the remote machine doesn't even pause at the boot prompt because no one is there to watch it? I'm curious how remote servers work in real life because in my next life I wanna come back as a sysadmin :) When I started administering remote servers, Citrix's XenServer is Good Enough™ to deploy in production, so now it's the first thing I install on a virgin box, even if said virgin box will host only one VM. This provides me with a usable Virtual Console through which I can watch the boot process. Bless you Pandu, you just answered a question I didn't ask (yet :) My workplace recently began providing us (peons) access to its Holy Intranet even when we are (shamefully) not actually in the workplace. When I use firefox to access their intranet I have no problems: I see a small popup dialog box that announces that Citrix is allowing me to see a window containing an instance of M$ Internet Explorer, which is displaying the intranet web page I clicked on in firefox, (which is running on my gentoo desktop, of course). I can see that this whole process starts a java vm running in the background, so I suppose that the Citrix app (whatever it is) is a java applet started by my firefox browser. But, when I try to access the same intranet web page with google chrome, it hangs forever instead of starting the Citrix app. (Other java-powered websites work normally with google chrome.) Does any/all of this suggest that their web servers are running the same Citrix XenServer you speak of?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Initramfs or move /usr to /, oh my...
On Mar 19, 2012 9:41 AM, walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/18/2012 04:31 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote: On Mar 19, 2012 5:31 AM, walt w41...@gmail.com mailto:w41...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/18/2012 11:52 AM, walt wrote: The other nifty hint was to add panic=10 as a kernel parameter in grub.conf (menu.lst) so that your remote system will reboot in 10 seconds if the kernel panics during boot. That will let you test (remotely) if a kernel parameter like noinitrd breaks your machine. Heh. I learn a lot from reading my posts -- when I figure out why my first reply was wrong :p Now that I've thought about it, I assume you have only ssh access to your remote machine, so you can't see the grub boot prompt, right? Maybe the remote machine doesn't even pause at the boot prompt because no one is there to watch it? I'm curious how remote servers work in real life because in my next life I wanna come back as a sysadmin :) When I started administering remote servers, Citrix's XenServer is Good Enough™ to deploy in production, so now it's the first thing I install on a virgin box, even if said virgin box will host only one VM. This provides me with a usable Virtual Console through which I can watch the boot process. Bless you Pandu, you just answered a question I didn't ask (yet :) My workplace recently began providing us (peons) access to its Holy Intranet even when we are (shamefully) not actually in the workplace. When I use firefox to access their intranet I have no problems: I see a small popup dialog box that announces that Citrix is allowing me to see a window containing an instance of M$ Internet Explorer, which is displaying the intranet web page I clicked on in firefox, (which is running on my gentoo desktop, of course). I can see that this whole process starts a java vm running in the background, so I suppose that the Citrix app (whatever it is) is a java applet started by my firefox browser. But, when I try to access the same intranet web page with google chrome, it hangs forever instead of starting the Citrix app. (Other java-powered websites work normally with google chrome.) Does any/all of this suggest that their web servers are running the same Citrix XenServer you speak of? That's XenApp in action, and despite having Xen in its name, it's not Xen. IOW, that's application virtualization not baremetal OS Virtualization. You won't ever know if your server is running XenServer or not, unless you ask the SysAdmin team. Yes, it's that transparent. XenApp is a love letter from hell, if you ask me. Here in my new employer, it's used extensively to access apps that actually live in the Windows Servers. The (quite sizable) dev team is currently feverishly trying to finish proper client/server apps to replace them. Reason for replacement? Well, your experience is but one of the teeth-gritting problems we're experiencing :-P Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?
On March 18, 2012 at 8:36 PM Maxim Wexler maxim.wex...@gmail.com wrote: Hope somebody can see a way out. MW I'd probably swap my computer shop and all it's latest-and-greatest to live where you are, and leave all the computers, 'smart' phones, etc. in town. Just me, the wife, the daughter, horses, chickens ... you get the picture. -- Happy Penguin Computers`) 126 Fenco Drive( \ Tupelo, MS 38801^^ 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 support at happypenguincomputers dot com http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?
Hi Maxim, what changed when the modem stopped working? Dunno Also can you supply the output of the route -n and ifconfig commands to give us a chance of seeing if anything has gone adrift there. Also if you are using (and have tested that its not the problem) any firewall running. I don't use the /etc/conf.d/net file. Also all net hotplug services are turned of in rc.conf. route -n shows nothing except ppp0 (this is from ubuntu, but it was the same for gentoo when it was working) root@gnubu:~# route -n Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse Iface 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 U 0 00 ppp0 161.184.0.199 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 UH0 00 ppp0 (also from the ubuntu side) root@gnubu:~# ifconfig ppp0 ppp0 Link encap:Point-to-Point Protocol inet addr:161.184.44.73 P-t-P:161.184.0.199 Mask:255.255.255.255 UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:5867 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:6439 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:3 RX bytes:1694892 (1.6 MB) TX bytes:746705 (746.7 KB) ifconfig eth0 and wlan0 are empty because I rmmod'd the drivers. I only use them when talking to the router or another pc on a lan, I set them up manually and take them down when not in use. Otherwise the web is unreachable. This true for Ubuntu and gentoo. There is no firewall as far as I know. MW
Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?
On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:44 AM, Maxim Wexler maxim.wex...@gmail.comwrote: Hi Maxim, what changed when the modem stopped working? Dunno Also can you supply the output of the route -n and ifconfig commands to give us a chance of seeing if anything has gone adrift there. Also if you are using (and have tested that its not the problem) any firewall running. I don't use the /etc/conf.d/net file. Also all net hotplug services are turned of in rc.conf. route -n shows nothing except ppp0 (this is from ubuntu, but it was the same for gentoo when it was working) root@gnubu:~# route -n Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse Iface 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 U 0 00 ppp0 161.184.0.199 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 UH0 00 ppp0 I am too young to know the details of dial-up, but going on the assumption that it uses DHCP or something similar, that last line is definitely a problem. In order for packets to reach an outside network, they need to know where to go. This may be your local router or a router from your ISP. Regardless of the configuration, with a gateway of 0.0.0.0, any packets with a destination on the internet will never get there. Because you experience this problem under both Gentoo and Ubuntu, it sounds like an issue elsewhere. Does the other computer on your LAN have a problem accessing the internet? - Matt
Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?
On Sun, 2012-03-18 at 22:44 -0600, Maxim Wexler wrote: Hi Maxim, what changed when the modem stopped working? Dunno Also can you supply the output of the route -n and ifconfig commands to give us a chance of seeing if anything has gone adrift there. Also if you are using (and have tested that its not the problem) any firewall running. I don't use the /etc/conf.d/net file. Also all net hotplug services are turned of in rc.conf. route -n shows nothing except ppp0 (this is from ubuntu, but it was the same for gentoo when it was working) root@gnubu:~# route -n Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse Iface 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 U 0 00 ppp0 161.184.0.199 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 UH0 00 ppp0 (also from the ubuntu side) root@gnubu:~# ifconfig ppp0 ppp0 Link encap:Point-to-Point Protocol inet addr:161.184.44.73 P-t-P:161.184.0.199 Mask:255.255.255.255 UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:5867 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:6439 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:3 RX bytes:1694892 (1.6 MB) TX bytes:746705 (746.7 KB) ifconfig eth0 and wlan0 are empty because I rmmod'd the drivers. I only use them when talking to the router or another pc on a lan, I set them up manually and take them down when not in use. Otherwise the web is unreachable. This true for Ubuntu and gentoo. There is no firewall as far as I know. MW The last route looks correct ... the wildcard might or might not be. Try and remove it and add a normal default route. Look up the route command if not familiar with the how. Just a comment, when ignoring the networking files in an operating system to do it yourself manually, dont be surprised if YOU have broken something. I usually do my own thing too as I am not impressed with the way gentoo handles its networking, though under openrc its better. BillK
[gentoo-user] Changing compilers
Hi all, Has anyone played around with the various better known compilers on Gentoo? By better known, I'm referring to gcc, Intel, llvm, pathscale. My situation is that I've just started my PhD which requires me to do Finite Element Analysis, FEA, and Computational Fluid Dynamics, CFD, and I want to find the best compiler for the job. Before anyone says Why bother, XXX compiler is only 1 - 2% faster than gcc, in the context of the work I'm doing this 1 - 2% IS important. What I'm looking for is any feedback people may have on ability to compile the Gentoo environment, the ability to change compilers easily, gcc-config or flags in make.conf, as to whether the compiler/linker can use the libraries as compiled by gcc on a standard gentoo install and so on. Obviously there is much web trawling to be done to find what other people are saying as well. Any thoughts, greatly appreciated, Andrew Lowe
Re: [gentoo-user] Changing compilers
On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 1:26 AM, Andrew Lowe a...@wht.com.au wrote: Hi all, Has anyone played around with the various better known compilers on Gentoo? By better known, I'm referring to gcc, Intel, llvm, pathscale. My situation is that I've just started my PhD which requires me to do Finite Element Analysis, FEA, and Computational Fluid Dynamics, CFD, and I want to find the best compiler for the job. Before anyone says Why bother, XXX compiler is only 1 - 2% faster than gcc, in the context of the work I'm doing this 1 - 2% IS important. What I'm looking for is any feedback people may have on ability to compile the Gentoo environment, the ability to change compilers easily, gcc-config or flags in make.conf, as to whether the compiler/linker can use the libraries as compiled by gcc on a standard gentoo install and so on. Obviously there is much web trawling to be done to find what other people are saying as well. Any thoughts, greatly appreciated, Andrew Lowe With regard to speed, are you looking for a faster compile time or higher optimization of the compiled code such that the run time is faster? -- Matthew Finkel
