Re: [gentoo-ppc-user] Mac Mini PPC - Is this the right list?

2008-04-16 Thread Terin Stock
yep, you got the right list. it's kind of slow, but someone will answer your question On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:57 PM, Mark Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'm starting to look into putting Gentoo on our older PowerPC-based Mac Mini. I wanted to know if this is the right list to ask

Re: [gentoo-ppc-user] Mac Mini PPC - Is this the right list?

2008-04-16 Thread Mark Knecht
Hi all, I'm starting to look into putting Gentoo on our older PowerPC-based Mac Mini. I wanted to know if this is the right list to ask a few questions about doing an install. Thanks, Mark On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Terin Stock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yep, you got the

Re: [gentoo-ppc-user] Mac Mini PPC - Is this the right list?

2008-04-16 Thread matt hull
This is my first PPC machine. I have used Gentoo for years as a user type so I've probably built 30 x86 boxes but never a PPC so I wasn't sure how to configure the kernel by hand so I swiped the /proc/config.gz fine from the CD boot environment and pushed it down into the chroot to use to

Re: [gentoo-ppc-user] Mac Mini PPC - Is this the right list?

2008-04-16 Thread Mark Knecht
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 1:15 PM, matt hull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is my first PPC machine. I have used Gentoo for years as a user type so I've probably built 30 x86 boxes but never a PPC so I wasn't sure how to configure the kernel by hand so I swiped the /proc/config.gz fine from

Re: [gentoo-ppc-user] Mac Mini PPC - Is this the right list?

2008-04-16 Thread matt hull
apple kernel ? that would be darwin. i think you mean linux kernel ? i dont append any kernel options. you want open firmware framebuffer and radeonfb or nvidiafb compiled in the kernel. not sure if enabling the edid or ddc options will help. i dont have a mac mini, just 2 ibook

Re: [gentoo-ppc-user] Mac Mini PPC - Is this the right list?

2008-04-16 Thread Mark Knecht
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:59 PM, matt hull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: apple kernel ? that would be darwin. i think you mean linux kernel ? Well, yes, it's a Linux kernel but named 'apple' I think. The instructions you see when you boot from the Gentoo 2007.0 universal install CD say to execute

Re: [gentoo-user] Crippled system

2008-04-16 Thread dirk.heinrichs.ext
Am Mittwoch, den 16.04.2008, 00:57 -0400 schrieb ext Richard Marzan: I had a circular dep problem with mktemp and coreutils and emerge -C'd coreutils. Now I can't do anything significant just cd. how can i repair this? Not tested: Boot a Gentoo LiveCD, create a coreutils binary package with

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 2008.0 install media

2008-04-16 Thread Roy Wright
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I just built a new box (previous one's motherboard fried) and decided to just start from scratch with gentoo ~x86. Tried the 2008.0 beta 1 liveCD but it didn't like my gpu (nvidia 8600GTS) so just did a stage3 install via ssh from another box using

Re: [gentoo-user] Crippled system

2008-04-16 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Wednesday 16 April 2008, Richard Marzan wrote: I had a circular dep problem with mktemp and coreutils and emerge -C'd coreutils. Now I can't do anything significant just cd. how can i repair this? Boot off a LiveCD somehow. Use one that has a fairly recent coreutils on it, and merge the

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Overclocked CPU killed motherboard and CD?

2008-04-16 Thread Roy Wright
Grant wrote: An oc'ed cpu needs a lot more powergenerates a lot more heat. Both can damage the CPU AND the mobo (too much power might fry a regulator, or cook a cap). Or it might overload the PSU - and then everything is possible. A damaged mobo or psu can take a lot of stuff with it to

Re: [gentoo-user] Crippled system

2008-04-16 Thread KH
Alan McKinnon schrieb: On Wednesday 16 April 2008, Richard Marzan wrote: I had a circular dep problem with mktemp and coreutils and emerge -C'd coreutils. Now I can't do anything significant just cd. how can i repair this? Boot off a LiveCD somehow. Use one that has a fairly recent

Re: [gentoo-user] Crippled system

2008-04-16 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:00:38 +0300, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If the last step fails, you could also just unpack the package with tar, but that wouldn't give you any package information. Re-emerging the package after booting into the fixed system will cure that. In fact, you should emerge

Re: [gentoo-user] Recommend a program for line art and text

2008-04-16 Thread Liviu Andronic
On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 1:26 AM, Kevin O'Gorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should I use something else to author my diagrams? You might try Dia or grace. Liviu -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Daft colours in knode

2008-04-16 Thread Peter Humphrey
I've just installed knode to see how Usenet has changed since I first used it 15 years ago, and I'm astonished to find that the default colours include white text on a white background for read threads and articles. Who on Earth wants these things to disappear when read? What goes on in the

[gentoo-user] emerge -avk sun-jdk-1.5.0.10.tbz2

2008-04-16 Thread Kaushal Shriyan
# emerge -avk sun-jdk-1.5.0.10.tbz2 *** emerging by path is broken and may not always work!!! These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [binary N] dev-java/sun-jdk-1.5.0.10 USE=-X -alsa -doc -examples -jce (-nsplugin) [?] Total: 1 package

[gentoo-user] Re: Daft colours in knode

2008-04-16 Thread Michael Schmarck
Peter Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've just installed knode to see how Usenet has changed since I first used it 15 years ago, and I'm astonished to find that the default colours include white text on a white background for read threads and articles. That's not the default. The default

Re: [gentoo-user] ssh-add: Could not open a connection to your authentication agent.

2008-04-16 Thread Eric Martin
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Schmarck wrote: Hello. Since this morning, I find that I can no longer add SSH keys to the ssh key agent. I'm using Gnome 2.22, so I think seahorse would be used instead. --($:~)-- ssh-add Could not open a connection to your

Re: [gentoo-user] Crippled system

2008-04-16 Thread David Relson
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:57:59 -0400 Richard Marzan wrote: I had a circular dep problem with mktemp and coreutils and emerge -C'd coreutils. Now I can't do anything significant just cd. how can i repair this? -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list Perhaps a quickpkg of coreutils

[gentoo-user] Re: ssh-add: Could not open a connection to your authentication agent.

2008-04-16 Thread Michael Schmarck
Eric Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Schmarck wrote: Hello. Since this morning, I find that I can no longer add SSH keys to the ssh key agent. I'm using Gnome 2.22, so I think seahorse would be used instead. [...] Is ssh-agent

[gentoo-user] Gentoo Universal PPC ISO size?

2008-04-16 Thread Mark Knecht
Hi, I'm going to put Gentoo on my Mac Mini. No one ever uses the machine for anything. So much for OS X I suppose. Anyway, the 2008 beta, located here: http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ppc/2008.0_beta1/ is 745MB which doesn't fit on 700MB CD-Rs I have. Are there CD-Rs larger than 700MB? I

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Universal PPC ISO size?

2008-04-16 Thread Etaoin Shrdlu
On Wednesday 16 April 2008, 14:52, Mark Knecht wrote: Hi, I'm going to put Gentoo on my Mac Mini. No one ever uses the machine for anything. So much for OS X I suppose. Anyway, the 2008 beta, located here: http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ppc/2008.0_beta1/ is 745MB which doesn't fit

Re: [gentoo-user] Crippled system

2008-04-16 Thread alain . didierjean
Selon [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Am Mittwoch, den 16.04.2008, 00:57 -0400 schrieb ext Richard Marzan: I had a circular dep problem with mktemp and coreutils and emerge -C'd coreutils. Now I can't do anything significant just cd. how can i repair this? Not tested: Boot a Gentoo LiveCD, create a

Re: [gentoo-user] ck8s ethernet support in 2.6.23-r6 kernel

2008-04-16 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:57:43 -0700 (PDT), maxim wexler wrote: Also, just noticed this little bit: udev: renamed eth0 to eth1. Why did it do that? Because you have a udev rule to do this? Take a look in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules -- Neil Bothwick Procedure: (n.) a method of

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: ssh-add: Could not open a connection to your authentication agent.

2008-04-16 Thread Eric Martin
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Schmarck wrote: | Eric Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- | Hash: SHA1 | | Michael Schmarck wrote: | Hello. | | Since this morning, I find that I can no longer add SSH keys to the | ssh key agent. I'm using

[gentoo-user] Re: ssh-add: Could not open a connection to your authentication agent.

2008-04-16 Thread Michael Schmarck
Eric Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: of course I ran eix seahorse *after* hitting reply. Teaches me not to reply to a message 30 seconds after getting out of bed. Ok, now onto helpful stuff... does /tmp/keyring-L12w0n/ssh exist? Yes. HOWEVER: --($:~)-- sudo lsof | grep -i tmp/keyring

Re: [gentoo-user] scp escape characters

2008-04-16 Thread Etaoin Shrdlu
On Wednesday 16 April 2008, 16:06, Mick wrote: Hi All, I was trying to scp a file which had spaces in its name; e.g. This\ is\ the\ name\ of\ it.txt But scp would fail each time saying that the name is ambiguous (or something similar). I also tried enclosing the name in 'single', or

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Universal PPC ISO size?

2008-04-16 Thread Florian Philipp
On Wed, 2008-04-16 at 05:52 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: Hi, I'm going to put Gentoo on my Mac Mini. No one ever uses the machine for anything. So much for OS X I suppose. Anyway, the 2008 beta, located here: http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ppc/2008.0_beta1/ is 745MB which doesn't fit

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Universal PPC ISO size?

2008-04-16 Thread Mark Knecht
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:20 AM, Etaoin Shrdlu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 16 April 2008, 14:52, Mark Knecht wrote: Hi, I'm going to put Gentoo on my Mac Mini. No one ever uses the machine for anything. So much for OS X I suppose. Anyway, the 2008 beta, located here:

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Universal PPC ISO size?

2008-04-16 Thread Mark Knecht
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 7:17 AM, Florian Philipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2008-04-16 at 05:52 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: Hi, I'm going to put Gentoo on my Mac Mini. No one ever uses the machine for anything. So much for OS X I suppose. Anyway, the 2008 beta, located here:

Re: [gentoo-user] scp escape characters

2008-04-16 Thread Etaoin Shrdlu
On Wednesday 16 April 2008, 16:31, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote: $ scp [EMAIL PROTECTED]:'/src/dir/This is the name of it.txt' /dst/dir Wrong (sorry). You need to both quote and escape spaces. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] scp escape characters

2008-04-16 Thread Mick
Hi All, I was trying to scp a file which had spaces in its name; e.g. This\ is\ the\ name\ of\ it.txt But scp would fail each time saying that the name is ambiguous (or something similar). I also tried enclosing the name in 'single', or double quotes, but it wouldn't have any. What's the

Re: [gentoo-user] scp escape characters

2008-04-16 Thread dirk.heinrichs.ext
Am Mittwoch, den 16.04.2008, 15:06 +0100 schrieb ext Mick: I was trying to scp a file which had spaces in its name; e.g. This\ is\ the\ name\ of\ it.txt But scp would fail each time saying that the name is ambiguous (or something similar). I also tried enclosing the name in 'single', or

Re: [gentoo-user] scp escape characters

2008-04-16 Thread Michal 'vorner' Vaner
Hello On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 03:06:05PM +0100, Mick wrote: Hi All, I was trying to scp a file which had spaces in its name; e.g. This\ is\ the\ name\ of\ it.txt There is a problem ‒ it unescapes at both ends, so you need to double-escape it, like 'Filename\ with\ spaces' or

Re: [gentoo-user] scp escape characters

2008-04-16 Thread Mick
On 16/04/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Mittwoch, den 16.04.2008, 15:06 +0100 schrieb ext Mick: I was trying to scp a file which had spaces in its name; e.g. This\ is\ the\ name\ of\ it.txt I tried it in my zsh, with TAB-completion (means: I typed scp

[gentoo-user] How Bad Is This...?

2008-04-16 Thread Bob Young
I'm in the process of installing a new box, last night before going to bed I started installing xorg server. This morning, I found the 82nd build (out of 162) had failed with the following error: 1450K .. .. .. .. .. 89% 44.2K 0:04 1500K ..

Re: [gentoo-user] scp escape characters

2008-04-16 Thread Mike Edenfield
Mick wrote: On 16/04/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Mittwoch, den 16.04.2008, 15:06 +0100 schrieb ext Mick: I was trying to scp a file which had spaces in its name; e.g. This\ is\ the\ name\ of\ it.txt I tried it in my zsh, with TAB-completion (means: I typed scp

RE: [gentoo-user] How Bad Is This...?

2008-04-16 Thread Sylvain Chouleur
Have you tried the keys Ctrl+Alt+Suppr in tty1 for example? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: [gentoo-user] How Bad Is This...? Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:43:21 -0700 I'm in the process of installing a new box, last night before going to bed I started

Re: [gentoo-user] How Bad Is This...?

2008-04-16 Thread Alan McKinnon
On Wednesday 16 April 2008, Bob Young wrote: I'm in the process of installing a new box, last night before going to bed I started installing xorg server. This morning, I found the 82nd build (out of 162) had failed with the following error: snip 36 -rwxr-xr-x 1 NormalUser Domain Admins

Re: [gentoo-user] How Bad Is This...?

2008-04-16 Thread Volker Armin Hemmann
On Mittwoch, 16. April 2008, Bob Young wrote: I'm in the process of installing a new box, last night before going to bed I started installing xorg server. This morning, I found the 82nd build (out of 162) had failed with the following error: 1450K .. .. .. ..

Re: [gentoo-user] How Bad Is This...?

2008-04-16 Thread Volker Armin Hemmann
On Mittwoch, 16. April 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: It's very bad. It indicates file system corruption on the ReiserFS. In my experience, I have never seen this to be followed by a clean recovery. You can try reiser.fsck with --rebuild-tree (after suitably enough research and googling) and

Re: [gentoo-user] How Bad Is This...?

2008-04-16 Thread Florian Philipp
On Wed, 2008-04-16 at 07:43 -0700, Bob Young wrote: I do have a second brand new 250G Seagate, is another clean install, with a *second* brand new drive the best alternative, or is some even lower level hardware (i.e. disk controller) the more likely culprit at this point? Thanks for

Re: [gentoo-user] ck8s ethernet support in 2.6.23-r6 kernel

2008-04-16 Thread maxim wexler
--- Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:57:43 -0700 (PDT), maxim wexler wrote: Also, just noticed this little bit: udev: renamed eth0 to eth1. Why did it do that? Because you have a udev rule to do this? Take a look in

Re: [gentoo-user] ck8s ethernet support in 2.6.23-r6 kernel

2008-04-16 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:54:53 -0700 (PDT), maxim wexler wrote: Also, just noticed this little bit: udev: renamed eth0 to eth1. Why did it do that? Because you have a udev rule to do this? Take a look in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules Looks like there's two rules

Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Overclocked CPU killed motherboard and CD?

2008-04-16 Thread Eric Martin
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Roy Wright wrote: | Grant wrote: | An oc'ed cpu needs a lot more powergenerates a lot more heat. Both can damage | the CPU AND the mobo (too much power might fry a regulator, or cook a cap). | Or it might overload the PSU - and then everything is

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: ssh-add: Could not open a connection to your authentication agent.

2008-04-16 Thread Eric Martin
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Schmarck wrote: | Eric Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | | of course I ran eix seahorse *after* hitting reply. Teaches me not to | reply to a message 30 seconds after getting out of bed. Ok, now onto | helpful stuff... does

[gentoo-user] [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown] another dead email address

2008-04-16 Thread Eric Martin
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 - Original Message Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:39:13 -0700 (PDT) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Eric Martin [EMAIL

[gentoo-user] OT: envelop printing

2008-04-16 Thread James
Hello, I have a nice HP CP3505 color printer that works fine with cups. It has a place for envelops. I run KDE 3 series desktops. What is the best printing software to create to/from addresses on #10 envelopes? Maybe the ability to add some pastel background images on select envelops would be

Re: [gentoo-user] [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown] another dead email address

2008-04-16 Thread Uwe Thiem
On Wednesday 16 April 2008, Eric Martin wrote: Original Message Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:39:13 -0700 (PDT) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Eric Martin [EMAIL

Re: [gentoo-user] [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown] another dead email address

2008-04-16 Thread Eric Martin
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Uwe Thiem wrote: | On Wednesday 16 April 2008, Eric Martin wrote: | Has anybody else who recently posted to the list gotten an email | bounce for a [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Nope but since it is an unknown or illegal alias rather than | an unknown user,

[gentoo-user] Re: Re: ssh-add: Could not open a connection to your authentication agent.

2008-04-16 Thread Michael Schmarck
Hello. · Eric Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ok, so looking at your original post, gvfs, gnome-vfs, and seahorse were upgraded. Yes. I'm not much of a gnome guy but I do know that apps do all sorts of strange stuff if I upgrade deps and don't restart them (forget). When's the last time you

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: ssh-add: Could not open a connection to your authentication agent.

2008-04-16 Thread Eric Martin
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Schmarck wrote: | Hello. | | · Eric Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: | | Ok, so looking at your original post, gvfs, gnome-vfs, and seahorse were | upgraded. | | Yes. | | I'm not much of a gnome guy but I do know that apps do all | sorts of strange

[gentoo-user] Circular dependencies when USE=gnome and emerging world

2008-04-16 Thread Michael Schmarck
Hello. I'm installing a new machine and use 2008.0_beta1 i686 stage3. I use the 2008.0/desktop profile. When I do emerge -DuvatN world, I get an error to the effect, that there are circular dependencies. Please see below. I'd like to know, if anyone else ran into this problem and how it got

Re: [gentoo-user] Circular dependencies when USE=gnome and emerging world

2008-04-16 Thread Justin Findlay
On AD 2008 April 16 Wednesday 09:28:48 PM +0200, Michael Schmarck wrote: Hello. I'm installing a new machine and use 2008.0_beta1 i686 stage3. I use the 2008.0/desktop profile. When I do emerge -DuvatN world, I get an error to the effect, that there are circular dependencies. Please see

[gentoo-user] Firefox: password field

2008-04-16 Thread Norberto Bensa
Hello Everyone, here's a cosmetic one. I use Firefox (3b5) on KDE (3.5.9) Password fields appear -in both versions- as asterisks * Using Kubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy) I've noticed Firefox uses circles in password fields. Is that an Ubuntu patch or some obscure configuration option? Thanks

Re: [gentoo-user] Circular dependencies when USE=gnome and emerging world

2008-04-16 Thread Roy Wright
Justin Findlay wrote: On AD 2008 April 16 Wednesday 09:28:48 PM +0200, Michael Schmarck wrote: When I do emerge -DuvatN world, I get an error to the effect, that there are circular dependencies. Please see below. I'd like to know, if anyone else ran into this problem and how it got solved.

Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox: password field

2008-04-16 Thread Pariksheet Nanda
Most likely the stars and asterisks difference is because your 2 desktops are using different themes. (Or one of the desktops uses a modified theme by the same name) OT it annoys me that Ubuntu brands their symbol in Konqueror's busy icon, etc... HTH, Pariksheet On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 4:15 PM,

Re: [gentoo-user] ck8s ethernet support in 2.6.23-r6 kernel

2008-04-16 Thread maxim wexler
--- Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:54:53 -0700 (PDT), maxim wexler wrote: Also, just noticed this little bit: udev: renamed eth0 to eth1. Why did it do that? Because you have a udev rule to do this? Take a look in

Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox: password field

2008-04-16 Thread Norberto Bensa
Quoting Pariksheet Nanda [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Most likely the stars and asterisks difference is because your 2 desktops are using different themes. (Or one of the desktops uses a modified theme by the same name) An Ubuntu patch indeed. For those interested: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ cat

[gentoo-user] Kernel Panic Troubleshooting when machine is not avaiable directly

2008-04-16 Thread Hieu, Luu Danh
Hi, I've been having kernel panics on a not-so-regular basis (server was running fine for 30 days, then had a panic, again fine for 2 months or so then panic'ed again). Problem is, the machine is far away and I don't have access to the screen. So far I've changed syslog-ng to record emergencies

[gentoo-user] Re: ck8s ethernet support in 2.6.23-r6 kernel

2008-04-16 Thread Francesco Talamona
On Thursday 17 April 2008, maxim wexler wrote: I noted also a broken runlevel with regard to net.eth0 which I deleted. Hopefully that's the fix. Should know next boot. But doesn't explain(at least to me) why eth0 is now defunct. If all I have is one ethernet port, doesn't that default to

[gentoo-user] Re: Circular dependencies when USE=gnome and emerging world

2008-04-16 Thread Michael Schmarck
Justin Findlay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On AD 2008 April 16 Wednesday 09:28:48 PM +0200, Michael Schmarck wrote: Hello. I'm installing a new machine and use 2008.0_beta1 i686 stage3. I use the 2008.0/desktop profile. When I do emerge -DuvatN world, I get an error to the effect, that