[gentoo-user] Is there a way to keyword a whole overlay as ~arch ?
I am following stable (ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=amd64). In order to install the mate desktop I need to install the mate overlay and keyword all its packages as ~amd64. Is there a way to do it easily for the whole overlay?
[gentoo-user] About the MATE desktop applications menu
Just curious is anyone else running the mate desktop has this same shortfall. Usually in the Applications menu top right the last item on the menu is a `run' command item where you can type in a command to be run. My fairly recently installed mate dt does not have that. Wondered if others have that item in their `applications' menu. Or maybe there is some other bit of MATE I have yet to install.
Re: [gentoo-user] About the MATE desktop applications menu
On Sunday 26 Mar 2017 02:51:50 Harry Putnam wrote: > Just curious is anyone else running the mate desktop has this same > shortfall. > > Usually in the Applications menu top right the last item on the menu > is a `run' command item where you can type in a command to be run. > > My fairly recently installed mate dt does not have that. Wondered if > others have that item in their `applications' menu. > > Or maybe there is some other bit of MATE I have yet to install. From what I recall I could click on the desktop and type a command/application. Plasma also has something similar. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-user] Re: About the MATE desktop applications menu
Mick <michaelkintz...@gmail.com> writes: > On Sunday 26 Mar 2017 02:51:50 Harry Putnam wrote: >> Just curious is anyone else running the mate desktop has this same >> shortfall. >> >> Usually in the Applications menu top right the last item on the menu >> is a `run' command item where you can type in a command to be run. >> >> My fairly recently installed mate dt does not have that. Wondered if >> others have that item in their `applications' menu. >> >> Or maybe there is some other bit of MATE I have yet to install. > > From what I recall I could click on the desktop and type a > command/application. Plasma also has something similar. I don't use the desktop click much ... not for any good reason just didn't ever creep into how I operate a desktop. Oddly I had not noticed that in this install ... clicking the DT produces nothing whatsoever. Must be something a litte messed up here somewhere
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: About the MATE desktop applications menu
On Tuesday 28 Mar 2017 07:15:47 Harry Putnam wrote: > Mick <michaelkintz...@gmail.com> writes: > > On Sunday 26 Mar 2017 11:46:52 Harry Putnam wrote: > >> Mick <michaelkintz...@gmail.com> writes: > >> > On Sunday 26 Mar 2017 02:51:50 Harry Putnam wrote: > >> >> Just curious is anyone else running the mate desktop has this same > >> >> shortfall. > >> >> > >> >> Usually in the Applications menu top right the last item on the menu > >> >> is a `run' command item where you can type in a command to be run. > >> >> > >> >> My fairly recently installed mate dt does not have that. Wondered if > >> >> others have that item in their `applications' menu. > >> >> > >> >> Or maybe there is some other bit of MATE I have yet to install. > >> > > >> > From what I recall I could click on the desktop and type a > >> > command/application. Plasma also has something similar. > >> > >> I don't use the desktop click much ... not for any good reason just > >> didn't ever creep into how I operate a desktop. > >> > >> Oddly I had not noticed that in this install ... clicking the DT > >> produces nothing whatsoever. > >> > >> Must be something a litte messed up here somewhere > > > > I don't have mate installed any more to test, but did you try pressing > > Alt+F2 to see if a Run dialog pops up? > > No I didn't and yes it does ... thanks OK, you may want to take a look here for further tips: https://keyboardshortcuts.org/mate-keyboard-shortcuts -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a way to keyword a whole overlay as ~arch ?
On 01/26/2014 05:12 PM, Thanasis wrote: I am following stable (ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=amd64). In order to install the mate desktop I need to install the mate overlay and keyword all its packages as ~amd64. Is there a way to do it easily for the whole overlay? Yep, you just need to know the overlay name. In package.accept_keywords: */*::overlay-name ~amd64 The */* syntax means any category, any package name. The :: then specifies the repository name. If you don't know the repository name, it can often be found in path/to/overlay/profiles/repo_name.
[gentoo-user] Re: About the MATE desktop applications menu
Mick <michaelkintz...@gmail.com> writes: > On Sunday 26 Mar 2017 11:46:52 Harry Putnam wrote: >> Mick <michaelkintz...@gmail.com> writes: >> > On Sunday 26 Mar 2017 02:51:50 Harry Putnam wrote: >> >> Just curious is anyone else running the mate desktop has this same >> >> shortfall. >> >> >> >> Usually in the Applications menu top right the last item on the menu >> >> is a `run' command item where you can type in a command to be run. >> >> >> >> My fairly recently installed mate dt does not have that. Wondered if >> >> others have that item in their `applications' menu. >> >> >> >> Or maybe there is some other bit of MATE I have yet to install. >> > >> > From what I recall I could click on the desktop and type a >> > command/application. Plasma also has something similar. >> >> I don't use the desktop click much ... not for any good reason just >> didn't ever creep into how I operate a desktop. >> >> Oddly I had not noticed that in this install ... clicking the DT >> produces nothing whatsoever. >> >> Must be something a litte messed up here somewhere > > > I don't have mate installed any more to test, but did you try pressing Alt+F2 > to see if a Run dialog pops up? No I didn't and yes it does ... thanks
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: About the MATE desktop applications menu
On Sunday 26 Mar 2017 11:46:52 Harry Putnam wrote: > Mick <michaelkintz...@gmail.com> writes: > > On Sunday 26 Mar 2017 02:51:50 Harry Putnam wrote: > >> Just curious is anyone else running the mate desktop has this same > >> shortfall. > >> > >> Usually in the Applications menu top right the last item on the menu > >> is a `run' command item where you can type in a command to be run. > >> > >> My fairly recently installed mate dt does not have that. Wondered if > >> others have that item in their `applications' menu. > >> > >> Or maybe there is some other bit of MATE I have yet to install. > > > > From what I recall I could click on the desktop and type a > > command/application. Plasma also has something similar. > > I don't use the desktop click much ... not for any good reason just > didn't ever creep into how I operate a desktop. > > Oddly I had not noticed that in this install ... clicking the DT > produces nothing whatsoever. > > Must be something a litte messed up here somewhere I don't have mate installed any more to test, but did you try pressing Alt+F2 to see if a Run dialog pops up? Failing this I think Ctrl+Alt+t should launch a terminal ... -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] tried desktop profile
On Wed, 14 Oct 2020, J. Roeleveld wrote: > Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 00:23:50 > From: J. Roeleveld > Reply-To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org > Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] tried desktop profile > > On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 6:52:05 PM CEST Jude DaShiell wrote: > > Let's see if this is a correct bottom post. I've never seen anything in > > this life. Eyes never developed enough for me to see. > > The desktop profile emerge failed, and no more has been done with the old > > machine yet. I could change to basic profile then emerge @world then > > emerge the basic profile @world then emerge --depclean to clear the > > unnecessary desktop packages from the machine. If I'm not mistaken, the > > new machine has 8 cores on it but all the ssd disks I have for it are > > 120MB disks so that might be a bit small for gentoo. I'll read through > > the hardware requirements again and make sure. > > I really hope you mistyped and meant those SSDs are 120GB (Gigabyte, instead > of Megabyte) > > 120GB is enough. I have an older laptop with that and it runs KDE/Plasma just > fine and even manages some games from steam. > > Most important is the memory requirement. > 2GB Ram can be made to work, but if you want a desktop, you need to forget > about the likes of KDE and Gnome and go with something that needs less memory. > > I have no idea how well they support accessibility tools like speakup though. > Hope someone else with more knowledge about this can add their input. > > Kind regards, Let's see, yes that was a typo, those ssd disks are each 120GB and unfortunately the Alien ATX case used only has room for one of them. However external ssd drives are on the market. I figure to use mate for a desktop since mate is rated as having better accessibility than gnome. Now for a screen reader mate has orca sometimes called screen-reader and fenrir can be used in mate-terminal and on the command line outside of mate if necessary. Fenrir if installed is a pip install. I found I have one available ssd drive available so am in process of putting gentoo on that. I can put archlinux and my podcasts on that 3tb drive on the older machine with no problem. > > Joost > > > > --
[gentoo-user] gnome 2/3
I am looking at upgrading my mail client from evolution 2 to 3 because of some features I would like. While pondering the whole gnome 2/3 thing, I have noticed the Mate desktop and like what I see - but gentoo seems to be the odd distro out without an official distro install path - is there an overlay or is it roll your own at this stage? BillK
Re: [gentoo-user]
If I have a desktop on a machine I go with mate when possible since I never liked unity when it was part of gnome. I ought to check in on lxqt since that's what Linus Torvalds was using last time I read about that. --
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a way to keyword a whole overlay as ~arch ?
On 27/01/2014 00:12, Thanasis wrote: I am following stable (ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=amd64). In order to install the mate desktop I need to install the mate overlay and keyword all its packages as ~amd64. Is there a way to do it easily for the whole overlay? As far as I'm aware, this is not part of portage or layman's feature set. I've seen a few overlays that provide a package.accept_keywords file you can symlink to, but this is just a convenience. It is neither required nor the norm. I suggest you script it somehow. Alan's blunt instrument first cut attempt (guaranteed to be buggy as all hell): find /var/lib/layman/some_overlay/ -mindepth 2 -maxdepth 2 -type d -wholename *-*/* | cut -f6-7 -d/ /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords/some_overlay -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
[gentoo-user] keyword a whole overlay as ~arch [SOLVED]
on 01/27/2014 03:14 AM Michael Orlitzky wrote the following: On 01/26/2014 05:12 PM, Thanasis wrote: I am following stable (ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=amd64). In order to install the mate desktop I need to install the mate overlay and keyword all its packages as ~amd64. Is there a way to do it easily for the whole overlay? Yep, you just need to know the overlay name. In package.accept_keywords: */*::overlay-name ~amd64 The */* syntax means any category, any package name. The :: then specifies the repository name. If you don't know the repository name, it can often be found in path/to/overlay/profiles/repo_name. Perfect ! Thanks Michael :)
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:52:48AM -0500, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I don't run desktops, I run applications. I use ICEWM with my most-used apps in the launch menu and launchbar. Desktop users moving to LXDE or XFCE is perfectly understandable. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org
Re: [gentoo-user]
On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 19:55:20 -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote: > If I have a desktop on a machine I go with mate when possible since I > never liked unity when it was part of gnome. Then use the plain desktop profile. > I ought to check in on > lxqt since that's what Linus Torvalds was using last time I read about > that. that's probably changed, Linus seems to change his opinions about such things as often as he changes his underwear. Just use what you like, he will both agree and disagree with you at least once in the next year :) -- Neil Bothwick PENTIUM: Produces Erroneous Numbers Thru Incorrect Understanding of Mathematics pgpdPdFKhjUWB.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a way to keyword a whole overlay as ~arch ?
on 01/27/2014 12:38 AM Alan McKinnon wrote the following: On 27/01/2014 00:12, Thanasis wrote: I am following stable (ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=amd64). In order to install the mate desktop I need to install the mate overlay and keyword all its packages as ~amd64. Is there a way to do it easily for the whole overlay? As far as I'm aware, this is not part of portage or layman's feature set. I've seen a few overlays that provide a package.accept_keywords file you can symlink to, but this is just a convenience. It is neither required nor the norm. I suggest you script it somehow. Alan's blunt instrument first cut attempt (guaranteed to be buggy as all hell): find /var/lib/layman/some_overlay/ -mindepth 2 -maxdepth 2 -type d -wholename *-*/* | cut -f6-7 -d/ /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords/some_overlay Thanks Alan, although obviously I should adopt Michael's inherent to portage solution: */*::overlay-name ~amd64
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a way to keyword a whole overlay as ~arch ?
On 27/01/2014 11:45, Thanasis wrote: on 01/27/2014 12:38 AM Alan McKinnon wrote the following: On 27/01/2014 00:12, Thanasis wrote: I am following stable (ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=amd64). In order to install the mate desktop I need to install the mate overlay and keyword all its packages as ~amd64. Is there a way to do it easily for the whole overlay? As far as I'm aware, this is not part of portage or layman's feature set. I've seen a few overlays that provide a package.accept_keywords file you can symlink to, but this is just a convenience. It is neither required nor the norm. I suggest you script it somehow. Alan's blunt instrument first cut attempt (guaranteed to be buggy as all hell): find /var/lib/layman/some_overlay/ -mindepth 2 -maxdepth 2 -type d -wholename *-*/* | cut -f6-7 -d/ /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords/some_overlay Thanks Alan, although obviously I should adopt Michael's inherent to portage solution: */*::overlay-name ~amd64 Yes, I saw that when he posted. It's a neat feature, pity I'd never spotted it myself before (would have saved me a lot of pain) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
[gentoo-user] Re: [~amd64] Keyboard stops working several times/day
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:38:10 +0200 Heiko Baums li...@baums-on-web.de wrote: Am 18.08.2015 um 04:04 schrieb walt: I see the keyboard problem in mate and xfce4 (the only ones I use now). I've wondered about the same things but I don't know how to debug those possible scenarios. And which terminal emulator are you using? I've seen the keyboard halting problem using xterm and gnome-terminal (running under mate, not gnome, but it seems to work normally). At the moment I'm waiting for my new keyboard to arrive from amazon, hoping to pin the blame on flakey hardware instead of flakey software. Somehow I doubt that it's the keyboard. I rather guess it's either a wrong configuration of or a bug in the desktop environment, the terminal emulator and/or systemd/udev. I plugged in my new keyboard two hours ago. So far no problems but that doesn't mean much yet. I used the old keyboard for about ten hours this morning and it stopped only once, about eight hours ago. If the new keyboard works correctly for the rest of this week I'll be convinced it was hardware :)
[gentoo-user] Syntax to exclude entire folders from emerge --sync?
I have an ancient Atom netbook. I use distcc to do builds for it, but "emerge --sync" is done locally. It's painfull. Anything to reduce the amount of unneeded stuff would help. I want to confirm that I have the syntax right. In /etc/portage.make.conf I put... PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS="--exclude-from=/etc/portage/rsync_excludes" ...and in /etc/portage/rsync_excludes I put stuff like... app-leechcraft/ app-pda/ app-xemacs/ dev-dotnet/ dev-embedded/ dev-java/ dev-ruby/ mate-extra/ www-apache/ www-servers/ xfce-base/ xfce-extra/ metadata/md5-cache/app-leechcraft/ metadata/md5-cache/app-pda/ metadata/md5-cache/app-xemacs/ metadata/md5-cache/dev-dotnet/ metadata/md5-cache/dev-embedded/ metadata/md5-cache/dev-java/ metadata/md5-cache/dev-ruby/ metadata/md5-cache/mate-extra/ metadata/md5-cache/www-apache/ metadata/md5-cache/www-servers/ metadata/md5-cache/xfce-base/ metadata/md5-cache/xfce-extra/ Is this correct? -- Walter Dnes <waltd...@waltdnes.org> I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?
On 25/09/2016 16:02, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2016-09-25, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk> wrote: >> On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 00:13:48 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: >> >>> I may try MATE next, but I'm not optimistic. All references I can >>> find to multiple screens in the MATE docs are not actually talking >>> about multiple X11 screens. They're talking about a single X11 screen >>> spread across multiple monitors using twinview or xinerama or xrandr. >> >> I'm curious. What is it you are doing that needs desktops on separate X11 >> screens? > > I do software development that often involves fairly complex test > setups where I sometimes need 1 screen for source code, 1 screen for > documentation, 1 screen for various simulators or test programs, 1 > screen for a web browser connected to the DUT, and another screen for > general web-browsing and email handling. > > And I find it very useful to be able to leave 2 of the screens as-is > while I switch the third one to do something else. > >> The results of your searches and experiments seem to suggest that it >> is n unusual configuration > > It is, though I don't know why -- I find it far more useful than have > one giant desktop. > >> and I'm wondering what particular itch this scratches. > > It allows me to work efficiently on complex tasks while concurrently > responding to emails and handling interruptions. I do something with a sort-of similar result. One big desktop across all screens with at least 6 virtual desktop. Stuff I need always there (like mail and IM clients) go off to one side on the small monitor, pinned to all virtual desktops. None of the other real work stuff goes on the small monitor. This won't suit Grant though, as he said his nVidia card can't big desktop across 3 physical 1600 monitors -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
[gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On 18/06/12 00:33, Michael Mol wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/06/12 22:36, Walter Dnes wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:52:48AM -0500, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I don't run desktops, I run applications. It's just that most people prefer a unified look and feel, rather than each application inventing the same things in a different and incompatible way. This is why DEs are so popular. We had a unified look and feel...but nobody liked that particular Motif. ;) That was a corporate Unix thing though, not desktop Linux. Good riddance :-P
[gentoo-user] Re: [~amd64] Keyboard stops working several times/day
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:51:34 +0200 Heiko Baums li...@baums-on-web.de wrote: Am 16.08.2015 um 18:45 schrieb walt: I've been seeing this keyboard problem for the past few weeks: after running some command from a bash prompt (haven't tried zsh yet) the keyboard stops working. Almost like somebody unplugged the keyboard from its usb port (except that the LED on the keyboard stays lit so I know the power is still on). I don't have this issue, but I guess you're using a terminal emulator in a desktop environment. Which terminal emulator and which desktop environment are you using? Maybe the problem is just that the terminal emulator takes the control over the keyboard or the desktop environment gives the keyboard controls to the terminal emulator. I see the keyboard problem in mate and xfce4 (the only ones I use now). I've wondered about the same things but I don't know how to debug those possible scenarios. At the moment I'm waiting for my new keyboard to arrive from amazon, hoping to pin the blame on flakey hardware instead of flakey software.
Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome
Am 23.05.2014 21:50, schrieb cov...@ccs.covici.com: I am open to suggestions here, and I have a log segment I can put somewhere to illustrage the oh no problem, but I am getting tired of the mess and if I can find something which works with orca I will do that instead. Gentoo is all about havinge the freedom of choice, Larry the cow said. If GNOME and systemd is not going to work for you at all, you can still switch back to OpenRC and e.g. try the MATE desktop environment instead, which is init-system agnostic and does not depend on systemd. It works fine with and without it.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [~amd64] Keyboard stops working several times/day
Am 18.08.2015 um 04:04 schrieb walt: I see the keyboard problem in mate and xfce4 (the only ones I use now). I've wondered about the same things but I don't know how to debug those possible scenarios. And which terminal emulator are you using? At the moment I'm waiting for my new keyboard to arrive from amazon, hoping to pin the blame on flakey hardware instead of flakey software. Somehow I doubt that it's the keyboard. I rather guess it's either a wrong configuration of or a bug in the desktop environment, the terminal emulator and/or systemd/udev.
Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login
On 03/07/2021 12:00, Tamer Higazi wrote: Hi Wol, If I am you, I would install "mate" desktop, which is basicly gnome2 and gnome transition to wayland is as much as I know completed. XFCE is a bit behind, that takes a time ... My make.conf contains "-gtk -gnome". I have ABSOLUTELY NO plans to change that, sorry ... Oh - and if "startplasma-wayland" won't run, I'm sure "startgnome-wayland" won't, either ... :-) But this has taught me a lot. Which was the whole point of the exercise :-) I now have a much better understanding of how systemd and wayland work. Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?
On September 25, 2016 10:49:15 AM GMT+02:00, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk> wrote: >On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 00:13:48 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: > >> I may try MATE next, but I'm not optimistic. All references I can >> find to multiple screens in the MATE docs are not actually talking >> about multiple X11 screens. They're talking about a single X11 >screen >> spread across multiple monitors using twinview or xinerama or xrandr. > >I'm curious. What is it you are doing that needs desktops on separate >X11 >screens? The results of your searches and experiments seem to suggest >that it is n unusual configuration and I'm wondering what particular >itch >this scratches. I think it's what I would love for KDE to have as well. I have a desktop with 2 displays connected. I also have a few virtual desktops. I would like each display to have a seperate set of virtual displays. This woulx allow me to switch 1 display to a different desktop while keeping the other display unchanged. I currently simulate this by setting apps to occupy all desktops on occasion, but it is not as convenient. -- Joost -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
[gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On 17/06/12 22:36, Walter Dnes wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:52:48AM -0500, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I don't run desktops, I run applications. It's just that most people prefer a unified look and feel, rather than each application inventing the same things in a different and incompatible way. This is why DEs are so popular.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/06/12 22:36, Walter Dnes wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:52:48AM -0500, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I don't run desktops, I run applications. It's just that most people prefer a unified look and feel, rather than each application inventing the same things in a different and incompatible way. This is why DEs are so popular. We had a unified look and feel...but nobody liked that particular Motif. ;) -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
Am 17.06.2012 23:33, schrieb Michael Mol: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/06/12 22:36, Walter Dnes wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:52:48AM -0500, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I don't run desktops, I run applications. It's just that most people prefer a unified look and feel, rather than each application inventing the same things in a different and incompatible way. This is why DEs are so popular. We had a unified look and feel...but nobody liked that particular Motif. ;) Haha, that one made me smile :)
Re: [gentoo-user] gnome 3.6 ... and related thoughts
Am 28.12.2012 01:02, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger: I *liked* the old way ... is there any explanation why removing this improves things? How is it supposed to work now? That's the sane question to ask, unfortunately you won't get a real answer from the GNOME developers themselves. They are still happy for mistreating the desktop as a tablet and to continue alienating their loyal user base with that shitty piece of crap they call GNOME 3.X, praising themselves still that every remove of a beloved feature is a mile stone in terms of usability and not facing the reality. Also knowing better than the user himself what bells and whistles he needs to configure his computer and not has also a long tradition in GNOME. It is really no wonder, that quite some major distributions ditched GNOME 3.X vanilla either for their own homegrown stuff or MATE/Cinnamon. So it is really no wonder either, that GNOME 3.X ruined it for a large part of their former user base and they switched to other desktop environments.
[gentoo-user] Re:
On 2020-10-09, Jude DaShiell wrote: > If I have a desktop on a machine I go with mate when possible since I > never liked unity when it was part of gnome. I ought to check in on lxqt > since that's what Linus Torvalds was using last time I read about that. I installed lxqt on a recent Ubuntu server machine when I need a quick minimal desktop. I was pretty dissappointed. I had read that lxqt uses openbox wm (which is what I use on all my Gentoo machines). But it seems that on Ubuntu lxqt doesn't use openbox, it offers XFCE wm and one other I'd never heard of before (mutter?). It also seems to refuse to run from the command line via xinit or startx, so I had to install a "display manager", which I find to be useless bloat. Next time I won't bother with lxqt and the associated bloat, I'll just install openbox and tint2. -- Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
Am Sonntag, 17. Juni 2012, 11:52:48 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop environments. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-li nux-desktop-environment-1045280 Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised. In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. I like GNOME 3, therefore I use it. I like systemd, therefore I use it. I like Emacs, therefore I use it. If someone else wants to use KDE, OpenRC, and Vim, it's none of my business. To each his own. one question - how can you call something that doesn't even let you change the fonts call a 'desktop environment'? -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Sonntag, 17. Juni 2012, 11:52:48 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop environments. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-li nux-desktop-environment-1045280 Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised. In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. I like GNOME 3, therefore I use it. I like systemd, therefore I use it. I like Emacs, therefore I use it. If someone else wants to use KDE, OpenRC, and Vim, it's none of my business. To each his own. one question - how can you call something that doesn't even let you change the fonts call a 'desktop environment'? -- #163933 Ignoring the fact that I *can* change the font, why should I have to? It's fine as it is for me ;).
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Sonntag, 17. Juni 2012, 11:52:48 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop environments. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-li nux-desktop-environment-1045280 Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised. In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. I like GNOME 3, therefore I use it. I like systemd, therefore I use it. I like Emacs, therefore I use it. If someone else wants to use KDE, OpenRC, and Vim, it's none of my business. To each his own. one question - how can you call something that doesn't even let you change the fonts call a 'desktop environment'? Really? I try to write a conciliatory post about how we should respect each others preferences and that's the first thing you respond? To all of us who actually believe that everyone has the right to like whatever they choose, please don't feed the trolls. The intent of my post was exactly to prevent flame wars. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On Jun 17, 2012 11:57 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop environments. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-linux-desktop-environment-1045280 Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised. In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. I like GNOME 3, therefore I use it. I like systemd, therefore I use it. I like Emacs, therefore I use it. If someone else wants to use KDE, OpenRC, and Vim, it's none of my business. To each his own. There is no best desktop environment. There are only preferences. Agree. Which is why I wrote the word Best between single quotes. The whole sentence itself comes from the original title of the article; the single quotes are mine. Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] nx / nxclient - replacement
On 02/06/2017 01:55 AM, Helmut Jarausch wrote: > On 02/06/2017 08:53:19 AM, the...@sys-concept.com wrote: >> Are there any good replacement for "nx / nxclient" in Linux? >> NX is long time gone from portage. I hope, I can still install them >> from atic. >> This was another reason I wasn't upgrading for a long time as I need >> them to access remote boxes in GUI. >> > > I have net-misc/x2goclient (and net-misc/x2goserver) installed. > But I think, x2goserver has to be installed on the remote system. > > Yes, x2goserver needs to be installed on the remote system. But I do believe you need something installed on the remote system to listen for nx/vnc requests anyway. I switched to x2goserver/x2goclient maybe two years ago from xvnc/tigervnc as it was getting to be a real chore to install again xorg-x11 at the time. It has some benefits, one of them being it spawns a new session when you log in, like Terminal Server/Remote Desktop Services on Windows - meaning you don't attach to an existing user that's logged on. It also has some downsides. As in not all desktops are fully supported. I had to switch to MATE on the server for reliability issues. KDE5 is not supported, as an example. They do support other desktops besides MATE, it's just the one I stuck with. It does, however, feel back-asswards compared to KDE, as a primarily KDE-user. Dan
Re: [gentoo-user] nx / nxclient - replacement
Thelma On 02/06/2017 08:55 AM, Daniel Frey wrote: > On 02/06/2017 01:55 AM, Helmut Jarausch wrote: >> On 02/06/2017 08:53:19 AM, the...@sys-concept.com wrote: >>> Are there any good replacement for "nx / nxclient" in Linux? >>> NX is long time gone from portage. I hope, I can still install them >>> from atic. >>> This was another reason I wasn't upgrading for a long time as I need >>> them to access remote boxes in GUI. >>> >> >> I have net-misc/x2goclient (and net-misc/x2goserver) installed. >> But I think, x2goserver has to be installed on the remote system. >> >> > > Yes, x2goserver needs to be installed on the remote system. But I do > believe you need something installed on the remote system to listen for > nx/vnc requests anyway. > > I switched to x2goserver/x2goclient maybe two years ago from > xvnc/tigervnc as it was getting to be a real chore to install again > xorg-x11 at the time. > > It has some benefits, one of them being it spawns a new session when you > log in, like Terminal Server/Remote Desktop Services on Windows - > meaning you don't attach to an existing user that's logged on. > > It also has some downsides. As in not all desktops are fully supported. > I had to switch to MATE on the server for reliability issues. KDE5 is > not supported, as an example. They do support other desktops besides > MATE, it's just the one I stuck with. It does, however, feel > back-asswards compared to KDE, as a primarily KDE-user. > > Dan Any experience, how do they compare speed-wise net-misc/remmina vs. x2goserver of GUI to remote PC over the internet? -- Thelma
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to dump kde gracefully in favor of lxde
On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 01:44:02PM +0100, Kai Krakow wrote
> You could also try to stop portage from even syncing the KDE components
> into the tree. I usually do this for small systems to not give portage
> any chance of pulling in unwanted components. As a plus, syncing and
> dep calculation should be faster.
That would generate error messages. The best solution is to get rid
whatever is pulling in KDE. As for blocking stuff to pull in, to quote
Frank Sinatra, "I did it m-y-y-y-y-y way". I wrote a script,
/etc/portage/cleanup which generates /etc/portage/rsync_excludes on my
machines. Note that the groups listed are what I don't use. Your
machine(s) will probably have a different set of unnecessary stuff.
#!/bin/bash
remove() {
rm -rf /usr/portage/${1}/ /usr/portage/metadata/md5-cache/${1}/
echo "${1}/" >> /etc/portage/rsync_excludes
echo "metadata/md5-cache/${1}/" >> /etc/portage/rsync_excludes
}
#
# Remove rsync_excludes
rm /etc/portage/rsync_excludes
remove app-emacs
remove app-leechcraft
remove app-mobilephone
remove app-pda
remove app-xemacs
remove dev-dotnet
remove dev-embedded
remove dev-haskell
remove dev-java
remove dev-qt
remove dev-ros
remove dev-ruby
remove java-virtuals
remove kde-apps
remove kde-base
remove kde-frameworks
remove kde-misc
remove kde-plasma
remove lxde-base
remove lxqt-base
remove mate-base
remove mate-extra
remove net-p2p
remove ros-meta
remove sec-policy
remove www-apache
remove xfce-base
remove xfce-extra
--
Walter Dnes <waltd...@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications
[gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?
On 2016-09-25, Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk> wrote: > On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 00:13:48 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: > >> I may try MATE next, but I'm not optimistic. All references I can >> find to multiple screens in the MATE docs are not actually talking >> about multiple X11 screens. They're talking about a single X11 screen >> spread across multiple monitors using twinview or xinerama or xrandr. > > I'm curious. What is it you are doing that needs desktops on separate X11 > screens? I do software development that often involves fairly complex test setups where I sometimes need 1 screen for source code, 1 screen for documentation, 1 screen for various simulators or test programs, 1 screen for a web browser connected to the DUT, and another screen for general web-browsing and email handling. And I find it very useful to be able to leave 2 of the screens as-is while I switch the third one to do something else. > The results of your searches and experiments seem to suggest that it > is n unusual configuration It is, though I don't know why -- I find it far more useful than have one giant desktop. > and I'm wondering what particular itch this scratches. It allows me to work efficiently on complex tasks while concurrently responding to emails and handling interruptions. -- Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Simple to upgrade Linux distro
On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 7:26 PM, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com> wrote: > R0b0t1 wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 1:46 AM, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Howdy, >>> >>> This isn't a Gentoo question but most everyone here used something >>> before Gentoo. I need a simple to upgrade distro for someone else. >>> >>> A friend of mine had windoze XP, which is dead to M$. She needed >>> something and buying a computer or new OS is not a option, even tho she >>> needs to upgrade that 10 or 12 year old thing she has. So, I put Mageia >>> on it a couple years ago, used to be Mandrake way back which is what I >>> started with. She has been doing updates every week or so since it is >>> GUI based and pretty easy. Tell it to update or just click the pop-up >>> when it tells you one is available and when it is done, reboot. Yea, >>> windowish I know. lol Anyway, she did a update and now she can't login >>> to KDE. I drove up, hour away, and tried to figure it out. It has >>> changed so much, I'm pretty clueless. It is NOT Gentoo by any means. I >>> renamed the user directory in case it was a config that the new update >>> was hanging on but nothing. It just won't let you login. Also reset >>> the password as well. Thing is, I installed ICEwm during the install >>> and it works. It logs in but the screen doesn't refresh like it >>> should. You close a app, it's closed but it doesn't refresh the screen >>> so it looks like it is still there. The whole thing is weird. Since I >>> couldn't figure out what the problem was, I tried upgrading to Mageia >>> 6. Figured if it was a software bug, maybe that would fix it. Nope. >>> So, she's using ICEwm for the moment but it is weird. >>> >>> What I'm looking for. Something that I can install fairly quickly from >>> a DVD. Rig is to old to boot from USB stick. Something with a GUI >>> update process that is fairly easy. Uses either KDE by default or is >>> easily installable, hopefully during install by default. The big one, >>> needs to be able to run on older hardware. Her rig is something like a >>> 2GHz single core CPU and around 2GBs of ram. The drives are SATA but >>> that's about the most advanced hardware it has. The video is a built in >>> Intel of some sort. Nothing fast or even fancy for that matter. Yes, >>> I'm keeping a eye out for a newer rig but it is what it is right now. >>> >>> I've used Gentoo for so long, I don't know what other distros offer >>> nowadays. I figure that there are several distros that are graphical >>> nowadays but also need good support for older hardware and easy update >>> process. Googling around isn't helping me much. If I find something I >>> like, no KDE. If I find KDE based and a GUI updater, something else >>> won't work. I figure asking those who have personal experience would be >>> best. :-) >>> >>> Thoughts? Suggestions?? >>> >> I second the suggestion to try Xubuntu, though you should also look at >> Lubuntu (which uses LXDE). Sticking to Ubuntu based distributions >> might be a good idea because there is a large userbase that has easy >> to search for answers to common problems. >> >> Plasma 5 might load her hardware too much. Is MATE unsuitable? You can >> also look for even lighter weight window managers and install them on >> top of the default desktop environment, but most of them target power >> users. >> >> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/window_manager#List_of_window_managers >> >> R0b0t1. >> >> > > > I have a question or two on this. The reason I went with KDE, I use it > and it is closest to being windozeish. On occasion I read where some of > those other "lighter" desktops are 'feature rich' like KDE is. Example, > plug in a USB device and it pops up with a menu to select from a lot > like KDE does. Is LXDE or Mate like that? > MATE is probably the closest to a stereotypical Windows setup and looks better; LXDE should be technically sufficient but it's possible to say it doesn't look very nice. I would actually expect more culture shock going from Windows to KDE than Windows to MATE. MATE and Gnome 2 are fairly close to Windows XP in design, granted some things are moved around. Gnome 3 is closer to Windows 8 and 8.1. Plasma 5 implements more of the things that one finds in Windows 10. (Notably those desktop environments came out *before* the respective Windows versions that share UI/UX design elements with them.)
Re: [gentoo-user] New install - Wayland and graphical login
Hi Wol, If I am you, I would install "mate" desktop, which is basicly gnome2 and gnome transition to wayland is as much as I know completed. XFCE is a bit behind, that takes a time ... https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/MATE What I figured out, that this is not the very only thing to have wayland supported. When it comes to screensharing and propper bluetooth integration there is a fast moving project called "pipewire". I have replaced pulseaudio with pipewire on my gentoo machine and teams work smooth as well bluetooth with AptX HD. url: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/PipeWire what this article doesn't cover is to setup the "module policy section"... Here you sould change in /etc/default/pulse: load-module module-bluetooth-policy to |load-module module-bluetooth-policy auto_switch=2| That makes it possible to automaticly switch the codec automaticly when "mic" is needed. (as windows does) || |I am happy :-)| | | |best, Tamer | Am 21 Jun 2021 um 18:27 schrieb Wols Lists: What happens when you get to the end of the handbook? I want to get a working Wayland setup with a (multi-user) graphical login. When I set my old system up ($DEITY knows how long ago) I seem to remember a page on setting up X, and all sorts of stuff. Now, you seem to get dumped at working tty1 prompt, and then the *helpful* documentation JUST STOPS. It doesn't even point you at anything! (Yes it points you at the portage page about how to maintain your system, but that isn't much use if you can't DO anything with the system...) I've found the page on Wayland, but it just says "set this use flag and install two packages". Where's the documentation that tells me what I need, and how to set it up, please ... Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Advantages or disadvantages of use package.use as directory
Le 2015-08-30 12:41, wraeth a écrit : I wonder if there is some advantage to leaving things as my installation has created them or should I revert to the old way where package.use is file... not a directory. There's no specific advantage to using separate files within a directory to using a single monolithic file other than manageability and some utilities, as far as I'm aware. I think that having separate directories makes things much easier to manage when your system divert in major ways from the official ones. For example in my ARM (and soon MIPS on the Creator) linux I want the mate desktop but not all packages have been tested and approved so I need a lot of entries to get them to compile. I do not want an entirely unstable system so I start with the stable one and customize, only using package that I consider stable enough for my use. Having multiple files makes my life easier. Even if you do not need this kind of stuff it can still be usefull, why cram everything in one file! Michel -- For Linux Software visit http://home.comcast.net/~mcatudal http://sourceforge.net/projects/suzielinux/
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:45 AM Majid Hussain wrote: > > hi there, > now er days, the mate desktop is considderd very accessible, > compared to gnome, > orca is the screen reader used when a gui is launched, > espeakup is the screen reader that is used on the tty before xorg and > friends are launched, > it's what debian uses on the net install image, > hence me asking if espeakup would be able to be added to an iso image? > unless there's away of building your own iso image from a non gentoo system? > Majid > Hi Majid, I know nothing about accessibility systems but the meat of installing Gentoo is essentially just you executing a bunch of instructions inside of a chroot. You can start with any distro that currently provides accessibility for you, set aside some disk space, chroot into it and then do the Gentoo install work there. If the distro you start with can read what's going on in that terminal as well as the install instructions off the web pages for this task then I think you should be good to go. Hope this helps, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gnome3 haters: you should try the new cinnamon-1.6.1
you should try terminator, or guake if you want an alternate terminal. i am using both in combination (guake in luman-overlay, has applied some additional patches) lxde/openbox is very nice. slim and slimlock are working fine in combination with it. so there is no need for heavy gnome/kde desktops. if you want your old gnome 2.x dektop back, you should try mate, which is a fork of the last gnome 2.x stable branch. (there is mate-overlay) ;) (happy to see some other german gentoo users! :))) On 10/15/2012 04:41 PM, Randolph Maaßen wrote: On Oct 15, 2012 2:59 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk mailto:n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 05:23:44 -0700, walt wrote: In fact, I blame all the new problems with both gnome3 and kde4 on video compositing. All the whiz-bang kids doing desktop development are determined to use compositing anywhere they can possibly use it, even if it's silly. KDE has a checkbox to enable/disable it, and it is disabled by default if the system hardware is unsuitable. I agree about the unnecessary proliferation of hardware-hammering eye candy, but have no problems with it being there as long as it's optional. -- Neil Bothwick The best antiques are old friends. Hi, I have always loved gnome more than kde or anything else. About 2 years ago I had to use Windows till about 3 months ago, and I came back to gentoo and used gnome again. But I didn't feel that comfortable and home, so I tried kde and some other desktop environments, but these felt even worse. I found cinnamon and used it with gdm, what made me happy for a while. But I couldn't find an easy way to configure this system to my needs. I found no way to change the gdm background for example. I googled for a couple of days. So I tried to get rid of gnome, but I have some programmms, that use it. I use Openbox and slim now, I could configure it within half a day, and I'm happy now. By the way, I got used to tabbing terminal.in http://terminal.in gnome-terminal, does someone know a tabbing terminal without gnome or kde or something this big? Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards Randolph Maaßen
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone using xfce4 with compositing turned off?
Le 2015-08-19 22:18, walt a écrit : I'm seeing horrible performance from the xfce window manager (xfwm4) on my main, everyday machine, but not on an older backup machine or on any of the linux virtual machines I run on virtualbox. The symptoms: moving a window with the mouse is so slow as to be painful, and the CPU usage (on one of four CPUs) jumps to 100% almost immediately (xfwm4 is the culprit, see below). If I open an xterm and run (for example) /usr/bin/marco --replace, this sluggish behavior returns to normal immediately. After wasting hours on google I finally noticed that I had compiled x11-wm/xfwm4 with the xcomposite useflag disabled, so I enabled it and re-emerged xfwm4. Now I can get decent performance from xfwm4, but only if first I turn on compositing by running xfwm4-tweaks-settings. (No, not by running the puny and feeble xfwm4-settings app: I need to invoke a tweak to make xfce4 an acceptable Desktop Environment on my main desktop machine. official rant mode I remember going through this same frustration with gnome3, which was (and is) unusable without installing the gnome-tweak-tool package and using it to customize settings that I still don't understand. (That's why I finally gave up on gnome3, and I may yet give up on xfce4 and go back to mate.) Note that I'm not turning off official rant mode yet, but I should mention that this machine is ~amd64 with ati-drivers-15.7 and vanilla kernel 3.14.51. (Same problem with gentoo-sources-3.18.19, BTW.) That is strange, disabling this crap should bring sanity back. I have always thought that this was designed to slow down PCs that were too fast. Joke aside, You must be using the free video driver, no surprise there, it is junk. Since I could only get the so called free driver on my wife's ATI video I bought her an Nvidia card and installed the proprietary driver, now it works perfectly (with Mate, I don't really care for gnome 3 or xfwm) -- For Linux Software visit http://home.comcast.net/~mcatudal http://sourceforge.net/projects/suzielinux/
[gentoo-user] Re: Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?
On 2016-09-23, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com> wrote: [need to pick new desktop environment -- which could just be a window manager with a couple extra bits] So far I 've looked at windowmaker <https://windowmaker.org/> and LXDE <http://lxde.org>. Windowmaker seems a bit too oriented towards "icons on the desktop" which isn't how I want to work. It's possible that I could coerce windowmaker into acting more like I want it to. But, in my experience, you can tell by the default configuration how the developers think and how they intend something to be used. The further away that is from what you want, the more of a struggle it is (even if in theory you should be able configure it do what you want). LXDE looked good. After a few minutes playing with Lubuntu, I had a single-screen screen setup I was happy with. I also built lxde-meta and tried that on a single screen machine. That worked fine. However, when I built lxde-meta and tried it on a 3-screen machine, it fell over pretty badly. All three screens had wallpaper, but that's all that two of them had. Two of them had no window manager, no panels, no root menu -- nothing other than wallpaper and the defult X11 "X" cursor. I knew that the openbox window manager (used by LXDE) uses a separate instance for each screen. It seems that the LXDE startup stuff doesn't know that. I started openbox manually on the two "extra" screens and it seemed happy. However, I was still without panels or root window stuff on two of the three screens. When creating a new LXDE panel, there's no way to specify what screen it goes on. I tried manually starting instances of lxpanel on the other two screens, and lxpanel just complains that there is already a running instance and quits. So, no panels for screens 2 and 3. AFAICT, under LXDE, pcmanfm is what's supposed to own/manage the root window. It was equally (if differently) broken: I could run it on the other screens, but it always opened windows on the screen 1. I liked openbox though, so if LXDE refuses to handle multiple screens I may stick with openbox and try to find some other panel program that does work with multiple screens. I may try MATE next, but I'm not optimistic. All references I can find to multiple screens in the MATE docs are not actually talking about multiple X11 screens. They're talking about a single X11 screen spread across multiple monitors using twinview or xinerama or xrandr. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! I'm wearing PAMPERS!! at gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop environments. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-linux-desktop-environment-1045280 Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised. In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. I like GNOME 3, therefore I use it. I like systemd, therefore I use it. I like Emacs, therefore I use it. If someone else wants to use KDE, OpenRC, and Vim, it's none of my business. To each his own. There is no best desktop environment. There are only preferences. I like GNOME 3 a lot, and (in my personal case) it has helped me to actually improve my productivity in my what I do; other users may experience the opposite, even if they do exactly the same things I do. Other users maybe do something completely different, and they may also benefit from GNOME 3. Really, use whatever floats your boat. And if you don't like a particular software (or developer, or design), then simply don't use it. I really, really, *really* don't like KDE. I have never done (and I tried versions 1, 2, and 3; I lost interest in trying for version 4); but I have *never* told anyone that they should not use it, nor criticized their users and developers. It's none of my business; I don't like it, therefore I don't use it. Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz. Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??
J. Roeleveld wrote: > On Thursday, August 24, 2017 6:41:58 PM CEST Dale wrote: > >> root@fireball / # du -shc >> /home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/ >> 3.9G/home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/ >> 3.9Gtotal >> root@fireball / # > Mine is at about 40G That's big. O_O > >> I use folders to filter my emails. Gentoo for example has a folder for >> each list, one for -user, one for -dev etc etc. Since most are text >> only, they are tiny things anyway. I also have folders for my financial >> stuff too. Few emails outside of spam stay in the regular inbox. Any >> email that doesn't end up in a folder is suspicious to me. I'd never >> click or tell it to show remote content on any email that is in the >> inbox. Rarely do it on one that is filtered. > Same here, using sieve-scripts on the server. Eg. mail-filtering is not > dependent on the MUA either. > >> I switched from Kmail long ago. I can't recall what I ran into that >> made me change tho. > My guess is akonadi. It's what most people don't like, but tbh, I do > understand why it was done and after getting it working with PostgreSQL, I > haven't had to rebuild it. > > -- > Joost > Actually, I switched back in the KDE3 days. If I recall correctly, it had something to do with clicking links in emails and them not opening in Seamonkey but in Konqueror and I couldn't get it to do otherwise. That was a long time ago so I'm not real sure on that. I disabled a lot of KDE4/5 stuff. Most of it, I just don't need. Been thinking about switching to Mate as my desktop. Right now, it's installed but when I select Mate at the login screen, I get KDE instead. I just haven't had time to figure out why it does that. Heck, I been putting out kale and black eye pea seeds and watering the area of woods the past few hours. I'm feeding the deer. I need a trail camera out there. I found out deer like, love, 20% range cubes. Supposed to be for cows but deer love it. Healthy for them too. Yummy!! Anyway, as I get older, I just want crap to work. :/ Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
Am Sonntag, 17. Juni 2012, 17:33:58 schrieb Michael Mol: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/06/12 22:36, Walter Dnes wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:52:48AM -0500, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I don't run desktops, I run applications. It's just that most people prefer a unified look and feel, rather than each application inventing the same things in a different and incompatible way. This is why DEs are so popular. We had a unified look and feel...but nobody liked that particular Motif. ;) and it wasn't even that unified. And certainly not the feel with every application reacting differently to some keypress. -- #163933
[gentoo-user] Anyone using xfce4 with compositing turned off?
I'm seeing horrible performance from the xfce window manager (xfwm4) on my main, everyday machine, but not on an older backup machine or on any of the linux virtual machines I run on virtualbox. The symptoms: moving a window with the mouse is so slow as to be painful, and the CPU usage (on one of four CPUs) jumps to 100% almost immediately (xfwm4 is the culprit, see below). If I open an xterm and run (for example) /usr/bin/marco --replace, this sluggish behavior returns to normal immediately. After wasting hours on google I finally noticed that I had compiled x11-wm/xfwm4 with the xcomposite useflag disabled, so I enabled it and re-emerged xfwm4. Now I can get decent performance from xfwm4, but only if first I turn on compositing by running xfwm4-tweaks-settings. (No, not by running the puny and feeble xfwm4-settings app: I need to invoke a tweak to make xfce4 an acceptable Desktop Environment on my main desktop machine. official rant mode I remember going through this same frustration with gnome3, which was (and is) unusable without installing the gnome-tweak-tool package and using it to customize settings that I still don't understand. (That's why I finally gave up on gnome3, and I may yet give up on xfce4 and go back to mate.) Note that I'm not turning off official rant mode yet, but I should mention that this machine is ~amd64 with ati-drivers-15.7 and vanilla kernel 3.14.51. (Same problem with gentoo-sources-3.18.19, BTW.)
Re: [gentoo-user]
On Saturday, 10 October 2020 10:13:42 BST Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 19:55:20 -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote: > > If I have a desktop on a machine I go with mate when possible since I > > never liked unity when it was part of gnome. > > Then use the plain desktop profile. > > > I ought to check in on > > lxqt since that's what Linus Torvalds was using last time I read about > > that. > > that's probably changed, Linus seems to change his opinions about such > things as often as he changes his underwear. Just use what you like, he > will both agree and disagree with you at least once in the next year :) This wiki page explains portage profiles, what they mean and how they can be customised if so desired. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Profile_(Portage) It is better you do not install any 17.0 profile, since 17.1 profiles went stable more than a year ago. Install your choice of a 17.1 profile instead. There have been a number of significant changes with the introduction of 17.1, which will add to you workload unnecessarily if you first go with 17.0 and then you inevitably decide to upgrade to 17.1 some day in the future. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,
hey, sorry for being spammy, what desktop enviroment is used on the live dvd iso? gnome? mate? does that have orca on it? note, speech-dispatcher and espeak-ng are required for things to function, with pulse audio, Majid On 22/04/2020, Majid Hussain wrote: > hi there, > now er days, the mate desktop is considderd very accessible, > compared to gnome, > orca is the screen reader used when a gui is launched, > espeakup is the screen reader that is used on the tty before xorg and > friends are launched, > it's what debian uses on the net install image, > hence me asking if espeakup would be able to be added to an iso image? > unless there's away of building your own iso image from a non gentoo > system? > Majid > > On 22/04/2020, Ashley Dixon wrote: >>> i'm blind and wanted to get started with gentoo. >>> what's accessibility like? >>> is there speech via orca the screen reader or sound on the minimal iso >>> via espeakup provided? >>> I red this document, >>> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Accessibility >>> which seembs to be up-to-date, is there a update on this? >> >> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 01:04:48PM +0100, Majid Hussain wrote: >>> hi there, >> >> Hi Majid, I hope you're well. >> >> Have you visited [1] ? It is a community of Linux-focused >> blind >> and >> visually-impaired users, such as yourself, who have formed a community >> out >> of >> building accessibility software; primarily screen-readers [2]. >> >> You'd probably have the most difficulty on the initial set-up, as >> Gentoo >> installation takes place, almost entirely, in the tty, before you >> have >> any >> opportunity to install X. You could try running it in some sort of >> virtual >> machine and see if a screen-reader could parse the contents of the V.M.\ >> window. >> >>> I'm a complete newb with gentoo I would be greatful for your assistance >> >> How much prior Linux experience do you have ? Do you know of a >> screen-reader >> that works well once you have got to the point of installing a window >> manager ? >> >> This is the ONE situation under which I would recommend GNOME, as >> it >> is >> generally the best with built-in accessibility features [3]. >> Unfortunately, a >> lot of the more niche W.M.s (such as i3) require an incredible >> amount >> of >> tinkering (and often changes to the code-base) to introduce any >> sort >> of >> considering for accessibility. >> >>> I'm looking for an adventure. >> >> Don't worry, all Gentoo users get a hell of an experience, blind or >> otherwise. >> I'm sure you'll have an incredible amount of fun using this >> distro. >> ;-) >> >>> not sure if this was the correct place to post my question? >> >> gentoo-user is the general space for any user-land (non-developer) >> issues >> regarding Gentoo, so I doubt there are any problems with you posting >> here. >> Everything from this list (like all Gentoo lists) gets archived >> on-line >> by >> Gentoo at [4] and Google at [5], so in addition to solving your own >> problems, >> mailing lists provide the advantage of helping future users with similar >> issues. >> >> There is also the `gentoo-accessibility` list [6], but it's been dead >> for a >> while. >> >> (There are various other H.T.T.P.\ archiving services, such as M.Arc. >> [7], >> however Gentoo and Google are the most popular in search >> results.) >> >> Hope this helps, >> Ashley. >> >> [1] http://www.linux-speakup.org/ >> [2] http://www.linux-speakup.org/spkguide.txt >> [3] https://wiki.gnome.org/Accessibility >> [4] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/ >> [5] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/linux.gentoo.user >> [6] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-accessibility/ >> [7] https://marc.info/?l=gentoo-user >> >> -- >> >> Ashley Dixon >> suugaku.co.uk >> >> 2A9A 4117 >> DA96 D18A >> 8A7B B0D2 >> A30E BF25 >> F290 A8AA >> >> > > > -- > kind regards, > Majid Hussain > -- kind regards, Majid Hussain
[gentoo-user] Re: Libreoffice PDF conversion problem : bug report
On 12/31/2014 04:40 AM, Philip Webb wrote: 141231 Philip Webb wrote: 141229 Philip Webb wrote: I want to revise the 1st page of a PDF on my Internet site. The revision I created today has mangled some of the punctuation : I've investigated further the problem remains. It occurred to me that it was perhaps being caused by importing a text file /or that the original import PDF had been done by OpenOffice 3 ya . However, apostrophes extended dashes are mangled as shown above even when I enter a completely new .odt file. I've tried changing the font using the PDF dialog under 'File', but the bad effect still happens. This has to be a bug in LO : whatever the characters in the .odt , LO sb able to reproduce them correctly in the exported PDF . It appears that I don't have a bug account with LO, so I've applied for one after checking whether anyone else has run into it, will report it. I've submitted LibreOffice Bug 87903 . Can anyone else reproduce this ? I'm running 4.3.5.2.0, the testing version on ~amd64, and I don't see the same export error when I use the two test .odt files downloaded from your bug report. I don't think you said what app you're using to view the pdf files. I'm using the document viewer from the Mate desktop, basically the same as the old gnome2 document viewer.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Libreoffice PDF conversion problem : bug report
150101 walt wrote: On 12/31/2014 04:40 AM, Philip Webb wrote: I want to revise the 1st page of a PDF on my Internet site. The revision I created today has mangled some of the punctuation. It occurred to me that it was perhaps being caused by importing a text file /or that the original import PDF had been done by OpenOffice 3 ya . However, apostrophes extended dashes are mangled as shown above even when I enter a completely new .odt file. I've tried changing the font using the PDF dialog under 'File', but the bad effect still happens. This has to be a bug in LO : whatever the characters in the .odt , LO sb able to reproduce them correctly in the exported PDF . I've submitted LibreOffice Bug 87903 . Can anyone else reproduce this ? I'm running 4.3.5.2.0, the testing version on ~amd64, and I don't see the same export error, when I use the two test .odt files downloaded from your bug report. Ah, interesting ! -- I'm using 4.3.4.1 , so perhaps it's been corrected. What app are you using to view the pdf files ? I'm using the document viewer from the Mate desktop, basically the same as the old gnome2 document viewer. The problem occurs with Okular, Mupdf Firefox's PDF viewer. If anyone is new to this, my egs are at http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~purslow/test/ . -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,
hey there mark, you are ausom! it has cleared things up alot! on the chroot what doo I need? thanks, Majid Hussain On 22/04/2020, Mark Knecht wrote: > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:45 AM Majid Hussain > wrote: >> >> hi there, >> now er days, the mate desktop is considderd very accessible, >> compared to gnome, >> orca is the screen reader used when a gui is launched, >> espeakup is the screen reader that is used on the tty before xorg and >> friends are launched, >> it's what debian uses on the net install image, >> hence me asking if espeakup would be able to be added to an iso image? >> unless there's away of building your own iso image from a non gentoo > system? >> Majid >> > > Hi Majid, >I know nothing about accessibility systems but the meat of installing > Gentoo is essentially just you executing a bunch of instructions inside of > a chroot. You can start with any distro that currently provides > accessibility for you, set aside some disk space, chroot into it and then > do the Gentoo install work there. If the distro you start with can read > what's going on in that terminal as well as the install instructions off > the web pages for this task then I think you should be good to go. > > Hope this helps, > Mark > -- kind regards, Majid Hussain
[gentoo-user] emerge failure for app-editors/pluma-1.24.1
hi people,
I got problems for building app-editors/pluma-1.2.4.1 that is required
for the desktop environment "mate".
any ideas that could solve this problem ?
Thanks in advance.
the full info is here:
https://pastebin.com/raw/PDkt7nwM
and the complete build log:
https://pastebin.com/raw/arJwmT3i
best, Tamer
short error output:
mo="zh_TW/zh_TW.mo"; \
if test -f "${mo}"; then mo="../${mo}"; else
mo="/var/tmp/portage/app-editors/pluma-1.24.1/work/pluma-1.24.1/help/${mo}";
fi; \
(cd "zh_TW/" && itstool -m "${mo}" ${d}/C/index.docbook
${d}/C/legal.xml) && \
touch "zh_TW/zh_TW.stamp"
/bin/sh: line 3: 9441 Segmentation fault (core dumped) itstool -m
"${mo}" ${d}/C/index.docbook ${d}/C/legal.xml
make[2]: *** [Makefile:592: zh_CN/zh_CN.stamp] Error 139
make[2]: Leaving directory
'/var/tmp/portage/app-editors/pluma-1.24.1/work/pluma-1.24.1/help'
make[1]: *** [Makefile:519: all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory
'/var/tmp/portage/app-editors/pluma-1.24.1/work/pluma-1.24.1'
make: *** [Makefile:451: all] Error 2
* ERROR: app-editors/pluma-1.24.1::gentoo failed (compile phase):
* emake failed
*
* If you need support, post the output of `emerge --info
'=app-editors/pluma-1.24.1::gentoo'`,
* the complete build log and the output of `emerge -pqv
'=app-editors/pluma-1.24.1::gentoo'`.
* The complete build log is located at
'/var/tmp/portage/app-editors/pluma-1.24.1/temp/build.log'.
* The ebuild environment file is located at
'/var/tmp/portage/app-editors/pluma-1.24.1/temp/environment'.
* Working directory:
'/var/tmp/portage/app-editors/pluma-1.24.1/work/pluma-1.24.1'
* S: '/var/tmp/portage/app-editors/pluma-1.24.1/work/pluma-1.24.1'
Re: [gentoo-user]
On Sat, 10 Oct 2020, Michael wrote: > Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2020 06:46:18 > From: Michael > Reply-To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org > Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] > > On Saturday, 10 October 2020 10:13:42 BST Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 19:55:20 -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote: > > > If I have a desktop on a machine I go with mate when possible since I > > > never liked unity when it was part of gnome. > > > > Then use the plain desktop profile. > > > > > I ought to check in on > > > lxqt since that's what Linus Torvalds was using last time I read about > > > that. > > > > that's probably changed, Linus seems to change his opinions about such > > things as often as he changes his underwear. Just use what you like, he > > will both agree and disagree with you at least once in the next year :) > > This wiki page explains portage profiles, what they mean and how they can be > customised if so desired. > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Profile_(Portage) > > It is better you do not install any 17.0 profile, since 17.1 profiles went > stable more than a year ago. Install your choice of a 17.1 profile instead. > There have been a number of significant changes with the introduction of 17.1, > which will add to you workload unnecessarily if you first go with 17.0 and > then you inevitably decide to upgrade to 17.1 some day in the future. -- I ended up going with 17.1 since I downloaded the current-stage3-amd64 package and the Handbook made it clear the profile needs to match the stage3 file you download. I didn't emerge portaudio or pulseaudio before emerging espeak so will have to reemerge espeak to pick those USE variables up. Another mistake I made was emerging espeak before emerging sys-kernel/gentoo-sources but since I'll have to reemerge, the sys-kernel/gentoo-sources package has been emerged on the system now. The right order of operations here is critical!
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a way to keyword a whole overlay as ~arch ?
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 20:14:17 -0500 Michael Orlitzky m...@gentoo.org wrote: On 01/26/2014 05:12 PM, Thanasis wrote: I am following stable (ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=amd64). In order to install the mate desktop I need to install the mate overlay and keyword all its packages as ~amd64. Is there a way to do it easily for the whole overlay? Yep, you just need to know the overlay name. In package.accept_keywords: */*::overlay-name ~amd64 The */* syntax means any category, any package name. The :: then specifies the repository name. If you don't know the repository name, it can often be found in path/to/overlay/profiles/repo_name. I wonder, can we get a hint of this function echo-ed at the end of every new layman install? It would make using, say, perl-experimental, far less unwieldy than without. (Apologies in advance for the noise.) I had no idea this was possible, but it seems the only way to use the overlay without making of mess of package.accept_keywords, which is what I have had when installing anything useful in the perl development area. Does this make any sense? Do all the overlays work that way, that is, kw-masking everything so you have to enable the ~arch per package? This always seemed absurd to me, as I added the overlay, I must have meant to use it... but anyway... I suppose it should be printed in red use if you know what it means, kind of thing. I can see it being a PITA if it breaks stuff in the main gentoo tree. . . . FWIW, I tried adding that incantation and emerging world, which gave no changes to my install. Then I tried: emerge -av dev-perl/Catalyst-Model-DBIC-Schema (Which created a bloated keyword file on my other machine.) This time, it only wants to unmask things perl in the gentoo tree... but --autounmask-write proposes to list every overlay dep as a comment. Ugh. Before, I'd do something like: mv /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords ~/ mkdir /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords cp package.accept_keywords /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords/99_portage eix -c --only-in-overlay 0 -C dev-perl|grep '(~' |cut -d ' ' -f 2 | while read a ; do echo $a ~x86 ;done /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords/00_perl emerge -auDNtv world Nothing to merge; quitting. ... Which I did. Then /me thinks, for a change. If */*::overlay-name ~amd64, then: dev-perl/*::gentoo ~amd64 should work too. Now, emerge -av dev-perl/Catalyst-Model-DBIC-Schema Gives: Total: 37 packages (34 upgrades, 3 new), Size of downloads: 5,905 kB Would you like to merge these packages? [Yes/No] And no guff from portage. OMG, what a treat. I wept. . . . So wow, if I'd known about that before now, it would have saved me hours, if not days, worth of hassle. I think that should be the recommendation for anyone who installs the perl overlay. Maybe I'm crazy, but it seems to DWIW. Thanks Michael. Very helpful to know, at least. Does anyone who may have read this far think this would be a good thing to mention from the start for a new user of an overlay, like echoed at the end of emerging layman, or adding a new overlay? And, yes, it's a full moon, so I'm posting to the list. As is my habit. ;-) Cheers [I recommend Flat Tail seriously budget barley wine], - mykhyggz (who lost his .sig)
Re: [gentoo-user] Recommend a good replacement for XFCE?
On 09/23/2016 06:45 PM, Grant Edwards wrote: > I've been running XFCE for many, many years, and I was perfectly happy > with it until 4.11 came out. Support for multiple displays[1] was > broken in xfdesktop by a commit made in 2013. It's been broken ever > since, and there doesn't appear to be any intention of fixing it. > > About a year ago, when 4.12 went stable, I had to block it to avoid > this bug. I've been running 4.10 ever since, but the ebuild for 4.10 > just got pruned, so it's probably time to start thinking about > switching to a different desktop. > > Would anybody care to make a recommendation? > > The requirements are: > > * simple and lightweight > > * support for multiple displays[1] > > * support for multiple virtual desktops on each display (I > currently run 4 virtual desktops on each of 3 displays) > > * must have focus-follows mouse and must be able disable > "raise-on-click" > > * some sort of easily modifiable root-window menu that I can use to > start apps > > * some sort of task-bar (auto-hide required) > > * some sort toolbar OK (as long as it's auto-hide) > > * GTK-based strongly preferred -- I typically don't have Qt or any > KDE stuff installed, and have some custom-written GTK apps on > which I'm rather dependent. > > * I don't want a file manager, terminal emulator, or any other > bundled apps, so it would be nice if they were all optional, > separate ebuilds > > I don't want any storage auto-mounter, network manager, modem manager, > or any of that sort of thing. Anything with "manager" in the name is > probably right out. > > All I want is something to run urxvt terminals and xemacs windows -- > with maybe an instance of firefox, chrome, or wireshark. I also > occasionally run libreoffice or xfreerdp, but only under duress. > > I don't want any icons or folders or shortcuts or whatnot on the > desktop. > > I don't even need the ability to use an image as my desktop > "wallpaper": all I want is a user-configurable sold color. > > When I'm moving/resizing a window, all I want to see is a wireframe -- > I don't need a window's contents being re-rendered constantly as I > move or resize it. > > No fancy animation or translucency silliness. > > [1] I'm referring to separate X11 displays/desktops, not a single > logical display spread across multiple physical monitors. > Have you considered MATE? It's a pretty darn good replacement for XFCE; very 'minimal' -- though not quite as minimal as what you suggest -- and GTK+ based. I'm not extremely familiar with all of its features or lack thereof, but I was pleasantly surprised by it. -- Alecks Gates 0x26CA0F78.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Systemd upower
On 04/06/14 15:15, Daniel Troeder wrote: Am 04.06.2014 13:22, schrieb Daniel Troeder: Am 04.06.2014 06:05, schrieb Samuli Suominen: On 04/06/14 05:17, Dutch Ingraham wrote: No, sys-fs/udev is not masked, but an update is indicated in the emerge above. That's a good catch, the MATE stuff is from the overlay. Unfortunately, the xfce stuff is not, so even if the overlay currency was an issue, I'll still be showing some dependencies. Try re-emerging on un-emerging the offending packages, like xfce4-session and xfce4-power-manager, it has helped some people, to refresh the .ebuild copy that is installed with the .ebuild copy from Portage - Samuli Thanks - that fixed it for me: # emerge -C xfce-base/xfce4-session xfce-extra/xfce4-power-manager xfce-extra/xfce4-systemload-plugin # emerge -uND xfce-base/xfce4-meta xfce-extra/xfce4-power-manager xfce-extra/xfce4-systemload-plugin Greetings Daniel BTW: I also had to unmerge gnome-base/gnome-control-center and gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon and mask all gnome-* 3.10 Yes, GNOME 3.12 is the first desktop in Portage that is forcing =sys-power/upower-0.99.0, therefore GNOME 3.12 can't be installed together with sys-power/upower-pm-utils It's expected that more and more packages will start requiring =sys-power/upower-0.99.0, so this sys-power/upower-pm-utils, is to be considered as a temporary solution, specially considering it has no upstream anymore So, if package you need sys-power/upower-pm-utils for, doesn't migrate it's code like Xfce did and directly use sys-power/pm-utils, so that it allows 0.99.0 installation, the package is bound to die That's the whole point of this requirement for manual intervention of user, he needs to make an informed decision what route he wants to go -- like extreme route, such as switching desktops from LXDE to Xfce, and such (This reply is not directly aimed at you, but to whole thread, just trying to raise public awareness, because maybe it will get someone to actually contribute some code to improve the situation) - Samuli
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone using xfce4 with compositing turned off?
walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: I'm seeing horrible performance from the xfce window manager (xfwm4) on my main, everyday machine, but not on an older backup machine or on any of the linux virtual machines I run on virtualbox. The symptoms: moving a window with the mouse is so slow as to be painful, and the CPU usage (on one of four CPUs) jumps to 100% almost immediately (xfwm4 is the culprit, see below). I'm using XFCE as DE and xfwm4 as WM. Since I bought a new GPU (Radeon R7 250), I don't use compositing any more because it causes tearing when I watch videos in fullscreen with 3840x2160. With this GPU I also had some random freezes when compositing was enabled. Beside this, performance is very good, regardless compositing is enabled or disabled. Scrolling text or moving windows around is a bit faster and smoother with compositing enabled, especially when other windows are in the foreground. With my old GPU (Radeon HD4550) I always had compositing enabled. Everything was smoother and I saw absolutely no glitches, but performance was also good with compositing disabled, just not quite as smooth as with compositing enabled. If I open an xterm and run (for example) /usr/bin/marco --replace, this sluggish behavior returns to normal immediately. After wasting hours on google I finally noticed that I had compiled x11-wm/xfwm4 with the xcomposite useflag disabled, so I enabled it and re-emerged xfwm4. Now I can get decent performance from xfwm4, but only if first I turn on compositing by running xfwm4-tweaks-settings. (No, not by running the puny and feeble xfwm4-settings app: I need to invoke a tweak to make xfce4 an acceptable Desktop Environment on my main desktop machine. As long as I use XFCE (many years) xfwm4-tweaks-settings is the program to toggle compositing. It's just a name, what is the problem? :-) Or do you mean, that you must enable compositing every time you start XFCE? official rant mode I remember going through this same frustration with gnome3, which was (and is) unusable without installing the gnome-tweak-tool package and using it to customize settings that I still don't understand. (That's why I finally gave up on gnome3, and I may yet give up on xfce4 and go back to mate.) Note that I'm not turning off official rant mode yet, but I should mention that this machine is ~amd64 with ati-drivers-15.7 and vanilla kernel 3.14.51. (Same problem with gentoo-sources-3.18.19, BTW.) I'm using stable xf86-video-ati and stable hardened-sources. I never used ati-drivers because I don't like to have proprietary software on my gentoo box. For me xf86-video-ati works well and has a sufficient 2D and 3D performance. -- Regards wabe
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Simple to upgrade Linux distro
R0b0t1 wrote: > On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 1:46 AM, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Howdy, >> >> This isn't a Gentoo question but most everyone here used something >> before Gentoo. I need a simple to upgrade distro for someone else. >> >> A friend of mine had windoze XP, which is dead to M$. She needed >> something and buying a computer or new OS is not a option, even tho she >> needs to upgrade that 10 or 12 year old thing she has. So, I put Mageia >> on it a couple years ago, used to be Mandrake way back which is what I >> started with. She has been doing updates every week or so since it is >> GUI based and pretty easy. Tell it to update or just click the pop-up >> when it tells you one is available and when it is done, reboot. Yea, >> windowish I know. lol Anyway, she did a update and now she can't login >> to KDE. I drove up, hour away, and tried to figure it out. It has >> changed so much, I'm pretty clueless. It is NOT Gentoo by any means. I >> renamed the user directory in case it was a config that the new update >> was hanging on but nothing. It just won't let you login. Also reset >> the password as well. Thing is, I installed ICEwm during the install >> and it works. It logs in but the screen doesn't refresh like it >> should. You close a app, it's closed but it doesn't refresh the screen >> so it looks like it is still there. The whole thing is weird. Since I >> couldn't figure out what the problem was, I tried upgrading to Mageia >> 6. Figured if it was a software bug, maybe that would fix it. Nope. >> So, she's using ICEwm for the moment but it is weird. >> >> What I'm looking for. Something that I can install fairly quickly from >> a DVD. Rig is to old to boot from USB stick. Something with a GUI >> update process that is fairly easy. Uses either KDE by default or is >> easily installable, hopefully during install by default. The big one, >> needs to be able to run on older hardware. Her rig is something like a >> 2GHz single core CPU and around 2GBs of ram. The drives are SATA but >> that's about the most advanced hardware it has. The video is a built in >> Intel of some sort. Nothing fast or even fancy for that matter. Yes, >> I'm keeping a eye out for a newer rig but it is what it is right now. >> >> I've used Gentoo for so long, I don't know what other distros offer >> nowadays. I figure that there are several distros that are graphical >> nowadays but also need good support for older hardware and easy update >> process. Googling around isn't helping me much. If I find something I >> like, no KDE. If I find KDE based and a GUI updater, something else >> won't work. I figure asking those who have personal experience would be >> best. :-) >> >> Thoughts? Suggestions?? >> > I second the suggestion to try Xubuntu, though you should also look at > Lubuntu (which uses LXDE). Sticking to Ubuntu based distributions > might be a good idea because there is a large userbase that has easy > to search for answers to common problems. > > Plasma 5 might load her hardware too much. Is MATE unsuitable? You can > also look for even lighter weight window managers and install them on > top of the default desktop environment, but most of them target power > users. > > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/window_manager#List_of_window_managers > > R0b0t1. > > I have a question or two on this. The reason I went with KDE, I use it and it is closest to being windozeish. On occasion I read where some of those other "lighter" desktops are 'feature rich' like KDE is. Example, plug in a USB device and it pops up with a menu to select from a lot like KDE does. Is LXDE or Mate like that? The thing about her, she doesn't know a lot about puters but she doesn't mind clicking around to find a way to get things to work. Example, she plugged her phone in and figured out how to download pics and stuff. Heck, I don't know how to do that myself. Then again, my phone is so old, it may not can do that. It's a old Motorola Razr flip phone which I maxed out on contacts in my address book a while back. I want it to be easy for her but at the same time, she can figure things out. She also knows that as long as she is a user, she can't hurt much. She stays away from root except when doing updates. The biggest thing, her rig is old. It's older than my older rig and ancient compared to what I'm typing on now which is several years old itself but has upgrade room. lol Thinking about installing some of these on my rig and just seeing what it looks like. < thinking > Thanks. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,
On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 10:32:12 -0400, Mark Knecht wrote: > > [1 ] > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:16 AM Majid Hussain > wrote: > > > > hey there mark, > > you are ausom! > > it has cleared things up alot! > > on the chroot what doo I need? > > thanks, > > Majid Hussain > > > > On 22/04/2020, Mark Knecht wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:45 AM Majid Hussain > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> hi there, > > >> now er days, the mate desktop is considderd very accessible, > > >> compared to gnome, > > >> orca is the screen reader used when a gui is launched, > > >> espeakup is the screen reader that is used on the tty before xorg and > > >> friends are launched, > > >> it's what debian uses on the net install image, > > >> hence me asking if espeakup would be able to be added to an iso image? > > >> unless there's away of building your own iso image from a non gentoo > > > system? > > >> Majid > > >> > > > > > > Hi Majid, > > >I know nothing about accessibility systems but the meat of installing > > > Gentoo is essentially just you executing a bunch of instructions inside > of > > > a chroot. You can start with any distro that currently provides > > > accessibility for you, set aside some disk space, chroot into it and > then > > > do the Gentoo install work there. If the distro you start with can read > > > what's going on in that terminal as well as the install instructions off > > > the web pages for this task then I think you should be good to go. > > > > > > Hope this helps, > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > -- > > kind regards, > > Majid Hussain > > Hi Majid, >Again, I know nothing at all about how you deal with these tasks with > blindness. A few things: > > 1) This list tends to a a bottom posting list. I don't think anyone is > going to give you much grief about top posting. I certainly won't. > > 2) Fundamentally you just need to follow the isntall guide located here: > > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64 > > Under the section "Installing Gentoo" there are a bunch of links. The first > 5 are basically about getting a new box with no OS booting, setting up a > network, basic stuff. You should have all of that from any OS you boot. TO > BE CLEAR: you can do this on your existing system if it's Linux based and > you have disk space available to play with. You can do this in a Virtualbox > VM. There is NO requirement to use a new empty system. Find some disk space > and follow the "Preparing the disks" and "Installing the Gentoo > installation files" sections to map out the design of your system. Once > that is done the section "Installing the Gentoo Base system" is where you > chroot into what will eventually become your machine. At that point you are > running Gentoo inside the chroot. You just build it p following the > instructions. > > I hope this helps a little. Once you get started youo can ask questions > here and I am certain you'll get responses. This is, for the 25 years I've > been using Linux, the most helpful place on the web for both Gentoo and > general Linux admin sorts of topics. > >Warm welcomes and best of luck. I'm excited to see how you do. I use gentoo with speakup (with a hardware synth) gnome and orca all the time and it works well. I compile my kernels and have speakup built in so that I can get the earliest possible speech, but you may not want to do this. My system is more complicated since I use zfs, but that is the great thing about gentoo, you get lots of choices. So, if you like mate, you can use that, if you like gnome you can use that, etc. Gnome requires you to use systemd, so be warned. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Removing pulseaudio
On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 12:29 AM, Alan Mackenzie a...@muc.de wrote: 'evening, Mark. On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:41:01PM +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote: On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Yuri K. Shatroff yks-...@yandex.ru wrote: In the end, I humbly believe it's up to me to judge what effect there is for me on my computers. Yes, that's exactly the point. Scroll up and reread this thread, though, and you'll get the impression that some complainers seem to think that Lennart is breaking into their systems and magickally installing his 175-year old software in them. What's this about 100% of the users being forced to have pulseaudio in? Somebody reported that pulseaudio is an absolute requirement for Gnome =3.8. That may not be 100% of users, but the forced is certainly there. If you don't like it, don't upgrade. Or fork it. Complain if the older ebuild gets taken out of the tree. Form a community that doesn't like it and maintain the older one. Use one of the variants that don't have it as a default. Use XFCE. Use mate. Use some minimal tiling window manager. Use cinnamon. Patch it so that it doesn't need it. Wait for someone to supply an ebuild that has a patch (do you know just how many custom patches gentoo has? A _LOT_) that allows you to disable it. Wait for someone to supply a PPA that has a patch that has it disabled. Pay someone to maintain such a ppa. Find another hobby besides building customized systems that you don't customize. You have a TON of choices that don't involve turning the GNOME team into your unpaid slave labor. Here's what I predict. Every time I google gnome 3.8 required pulseaudio, I just get circular references to this thread. The damned rumor hasn't even been confirmed. Whatever. If true, 3.8 is going to cause a wildly popular uproar to maintain a nopulse patch which will be enabled in the 3.8 ebuilds and maintained by the poor Gentoo gnome team. Gnome won't accept it, but Gentoo will ship it, and you don't have to do Jack to get it running. You won't even buy the maintainers a beer for the effort. If false - oh wait, Gnome 3.8 is already working on openbsd, so it's got to be false. Or is that another out of tree patch? Whatever. The GNOME team still remains evil oppressors who take the choice away from everyone. Because of a rumor you guys started. It was me that started this thread, and me that needed that info. Why do you have to be so disparaging about the process of learning? Disparaging about the process of learning? Take a good look at my first entry in this thread. A simple suggestion on a simple technical question. The more I read it the more obvious it becomes to me that some of the participants are more interested in a ricing contest with other distros than, say, learning what pulseaudio does. Case in point: I flat out told you two things it does and you acted like you were still waiting for an answer. Here, let me repeat myself in case you really are interested in learning. It's a sane idea for a desktop distro to include pulse as a -default-. No, seriously, it is. Just, frigging bluetooth headsets. Do you frig bluetooth headsets? Can't say I do. Bluetooth headsets are a damned good reason to default pulseaudio for -desktop oriented systems-. And per-application volume control. Per application volume control is a damned good reason to default pulseaudio for -desktop oriented systems-. Oh but you still don't have to... Yeah, I also answered that already. Are there other ways to go about it? Yeah. It remains to be seen how any of them are an order of magnitude better than pulse. You don't -like- it? Fine. There's no point in going on on some tirade about how the poor, oppressed 99% of users could have been doing just fine with ALSA And the hilarious thing is it turns out that whatever was causing your problem wasn't even pulseaudio to begin with. It was just a convenient scapegoat since bashing Lennart is so goddamned fashionable nowadays. -- This email is:[ ] actionable [ ] fyi[x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [ ] up to you [x] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate[ ] soon [x] none
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone using xfce4 with compositing turned off?
On Saturday 22 Aug 2015 03:08:41 waben...@gmail.com wrote: walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: I'm seeing horrible performance from the xfce window manager (xfwm4) on my main, everyday machine, but not on an older backup machine or on any of the linux virtual machines I run on virtualbox. The symptoms: moving a window with the mouse is so slow as to be painful, and the CPU usage (on one of four CPUs) jumps to 100% almost immediately (xfwm4 is the culprit, see below). I'm using XFCE as DE and xfwm4 as WM. Since I bought a new GPU (Radeon R7 250), I don't use compositing any more because it causes tearing when I watch videos in fullscreen with 3840x2160. With this GPU I also had some random freezes when compositing was enabled. Beside this, performance is very good, regardless compositing is enabled or disabled. Scrolling text or moving windows around is a bit faster and smoother with compositing enabled, especially when other windows are in the foreground. With my old GPU (Radeon HD4550) I always had compositing enabled. Everything was smoother and I saw absolutely no glitches, but performance was also good with compositing disabled, just not quite as smooth as with compositing enabled. If I open an xterm and run (for example) /usr/bin/marco --replace, this sluggish behavior returns to normal immediately. After wasting hours on google I finally noticed that I had compiled x11-wm/xfwm4 with the xcomposite useflag disabled, so I enabled it and re-emerged xfwm4. Now I can get decent performance from xfwm4, but only if first I turn on compositing by running xfwm4-tweaks-settings. (No, not by running the puny and feeble xfwm4-settings app: I need to invoke a tweak to make xfce4 an acceptable Desktop Environment on my main desktop machine. As long as I use XFCE (many years) xfwm4-tweaks-settings is the program to toggle compositing. It's just a name, what is the problem? :-) Or do you mean, that you must enable compositing every time you start XFCE? official rant mode I remember going through this same frustration with gnome3, which was (and is) unusable without installing the gnome-tweak-tool package and using it to customize settings that I still don't understand. (That's why I finally gave up on gnome3, and I may yet give up on xfce4 and go back to mate.) Note that I'm not turning off official rant mode yet, but I should mention that this machine is ~amd64 with ati-drivers-15.7 and vanilla kernel 3.14.51. (Same problem with gentoo-sources-3.18.19, BTW.) I'm using stable xf86-video-ati and stable hardened-sources. I never used ati-drivers because I don't like to have proprietary software on my gentoo box. For me xf86-video-ati works well and has a sufficient 2D and 3D performance. -- Regards wabe Hmm ... interesting. I have a PC with the Kaveri APU, which also uses the R7 graphics engine, but compositing has no problems for general desktop usage (with two monitors). 00:01.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Kaveri [Radeon R7 Graphics] (prog-if 00 [VGA controller]) Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Kaveri [Radeon R7 Graphics] Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 25 Memory at e000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=256M] Memory at f000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=8M] I/O ports at f000 [size=256] Memory at feb0 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=256K] Expansion ROM at feb4 [disabled] [size=128K] Capabilities: [48] Vendor Specific Information: Len=08 ? Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [58] Express Root Complex Integrated Endpoint, MSI 00 Capabilities: [a0] MSI: Enable+ Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit+ Capabilities: [100] Vendor Specific Information: ID=0001 Rev=1 Len=010 ? Capabilities: [270] #19 Capabilities: [2b0] Address Translation Service (ATS) Capabilities: [2c0] #13 Capabilities: [2d0] #1b Kernel driver in use: radeon I don't know if your card is significantly different, but can share settings if you are interested. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Optional /usr merge in Gentoo
On 20/08/2013 16:08, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2013-08-19 4:54 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 19/08/2013 18:39, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2013-08-19 9:36 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: For your other question, you don't need an initramfs if your /usr is not split off and drivers for your fs on / and chipset are compiled in. That will stay true for ages to come (until some joker starts shipping kernel drivers in /var) Right, but that wasn't my question, my question was will I be able to continue using eudev (or mdev, or whatever)... Surely that depends on how well-maintained eudev remains in the future? And is therefore best answered by the package maintainers? You misunderstand. I'm concerned about feature/dependency creep, where all of a sudden the Gentoo Council makes a decision (or is forced into a decision) that makes it *impossible* for eudev (or any alternative) to work without systemd. Or even worse, I actually had a dream (nightmare?) last night about an email to the list that went something like: Announcement: The Gentoo Council, in its infinite wisdom, has decided to make Fedora Core the official upstream for Gentoo. This is being done to make all of our lives easier, and so that we can all have GNOME on the desktop. shudder I just woke up from a wonderful daydream where I relived the catastrophe that was the demise of Xfree86. Remember that, in 2004? The project lead had been having a passive-aggressive dick-waving fight with Keith Packard (core member) for months, then banned Keith for committing XFixes without getting maintainer-lead blessing first. Shortly after that, the lead introduced a license change very much like the obnoxious advertising clause in 3-clause MIT. The community had had enough by now and collectively said f... this for a carry on, and forked XFree86 to X.Org. Within a month, XFree86 was deaddeaddead, virtually all distros started switching over, the core members voted 4 months later to disband themselves and XFfree86 source repo has had about 2 1/2 commits in the 9 years since. What I am saying is don't worry. These things have a habit of fixing themselves and nature restores the balance. Gentoo has already been forked - Sabayon, Funtoo, Exherbo. Gnome has already been forked - Unity, Cinnamon, Mate. udev has already been forked - eudev and replicated - mdev If what you fear comes to pass then many folk will have had enough and will fork, so you are sorted. Or what you fear does not come to pass, and there's nothing to worry about. Or someone reigns a rogue dev in, and it all goes back to being OK. Either way, you are still sorted. Gnome/Fedora is not Bob Mugabe - you are not obliged to do what he wants or even to listen to a damn thing he says. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Simple to upgrade Linux distro
On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 1:46 AM, Dale <rdalek1...@gmail.com> wrote: > Howdy, > > This isn't a Gentoo question but most everyone here used something > before Gentoo. I need a simple to upgrade distro for someone else. > > A friend of mine had windoze XP, which is dead to M$. She needed > something and buying a computer or new OS is not a option, even tho she > needs to upgrade that 10 or 12 year old thing she has. So, I put Mageia > on it a couple years ago, used to be Mandrake way back which is what I > started with. She has been doing updates every week or so since it is > GUI based and pretty easy. Tell it to update or just click the pop-up > when it tells you one is available and when it is done, reboot. Yea, > windowish I know. lol Anyway, she did a update and now she can't login > to KDE. I drove up, hour away, and tried to figure it out. It has > changed so much, I'm pretty clueless. It is NOT Gentoo by any means. I > renamed the user directory in case it was a config that the new update > was hanging on but nothing. It just won't let you login. Also reset > the password as well. Thing is, I installed ICEwm during the install > and it works. It logs in but the screen doesn't refresh like it > should. You close a app, it's closed but it doesn't refresh the screen > so it looks like it is still there. The whole thing is weird. Since I > couldn't figure out what the problem was, I tried upgrading to Mageia > 6. Figured if it was a software bug, maybe that would fix it. Nope. > So, she's using ICEwm for the moment but it is weird. > > What I'm looking for. Something that I can install fairly quickly from > a DVD. Rig is to old to boot from USB stick. Something with a GUI > update process that is fairly easy. Uses either KDE by default or is > easily installable, hopefully during install by default. The big one, > needs to be able to run on older hardware. Her rig is something like a > 2GHz single core CPU and around 2GBs of ram. The drives are SATA but > that's about the most advanced hardware it has. The video is a built in > Intel of some sort. Nothing fast or even fancy for that matter. Yes, > I'm keeping a eye out for a newer rig but it is what it is right now. > > I've used Gentoo for so long, I don't know what other distros offer > nowadays. I figure that there are several distros that are graphical > nowadays but also need good support for older hardware and easy update > process. Googling around isn't helping me much. If I find something I > like, no KDE. If I find KDE based and a GUI updater, something else > won't work. I figure asking those who have personal experience would be > best. :-) > > Thoughts? Suggestions?? > I second the suggestion to try Xubuntu, though you should also look at Lubuntu (which uses LXDE). Sticking to Ubuntu based distributions might be a good idea because there is a large userbase that has easy to search for answers to common problems. Plasma 5 might load her hardware too much. Is MATE unsuitable? You can also look for even lighter weight window managers and install them on top of the default desktop environment, but most of them target power users. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/window_manager#List_of_window_managers R0b0t1.
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,
hi there, now er days, the mate desktop is considderd very accessible, compared to gnome, orca is the screen reader used when a gui is launched, espeakup is the screen reader that is used on the tty before xorg and friends are launched, it's what debian uses on the net install image, hence me asking if espeakup would be able to be added to an iso image? unless there's away of building your own iso image from a non gentoo system? Majid On 22/04/2020, Ashley Dixon wrote: >> i'm blind and wanted to get started with gentoo. >> what's accessibility like? >> is there speech via orca the screen reader or sound on the minimal iso >> via espeakup provided? >> I red this document, >> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Accessibility >> which seembs to be up-to-date, is there a update on this? > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 01:04:48PM +0100, Majid Hussain wrote: >> hi there, > > Hi Majid, I hope you're well. > > Have you visited [1] ? It is a community of Linux-focused blind > and > visually-impaired users, such as yourself, who have formed a community out > of > building accessibility software; primarily screen-readers [2]. > > You'd probably have the most difficulty on the initial set-up, as > Gentoo > installation takes place, almost entirely, in the tty, before you have > any > opportunity to install X. You could try running it in some sort of > virtual > machine and see if a screen-reader could parse the contents of the V.M.\ > window. > >> I'm a complete newb with gentoo I would be greatful for your assistance > > How much prior Linux experience do you have ? Do you know of a > screen-reader > that works well once you have got to the point of installing a window > manager ? > > This is the ONE situation under which I would recommend GNOME, as it > is > generally the best with built-in accessibility features [3]. > Unfortunately, a > lot of the more niche W.M.s (such as i3) require an incredible amount > of > tinkering (and often changes to the code-base) to introduce any sort > of > considering for accessibility. > >> I'm looking for an adventure. > > Don't worry, all Gentoo users get a hell of an experience, blind or > otherwise. > I'm sure you'll have an incredible amount of fun using this distro. > ;-) > >> not sure if this was the correct place to post my question? > > gentoo-user is the general space for any user-land (non-developer) > issues > regarding Gentoo, so I doubt there are any problems with you posting > here. > Everything from this list (like all Gentoo lists) gets archived on-line > by > Gentoo at [4] and Google at [5], so in addition to solving your own > problems, > mailing lists provide the advantage of helping future users with similar > issues. > > There is also the `gentoo-accessibility` list [6], but it's been dead > for a > while. > > (There are various other H.T.T.P.\ archiving services, such as M.Arc. > [7], > however Gentoo and Google are the most popular in search > results.) > > Hope this helps, > Ashley. > > [1] http://www.linux-speakup.org/ > [2] http://www.linux-speakup.org/spkguide.txt > [3] https://wiki.gnome.org/Accessibility > [4] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/ > [5] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/linux.gentoo.user > [6] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-accessibility/ > [7] https://marc.info/?l=gentoo-user > > -- > > Ashley Dixon > suugaku.co.uk > > 2A9A 4117 > DA96 D18A > 8A7B B0D2 > A30E BF25 > F290 A8AA > > -- kind regards, Majid Hussain
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo accessibility re i'm blind,
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:16 AM Majid Hussain wrote: > > hey there mark, > you are ausom! > it has cleared things up alot! > on the chroot what doo I need? > thanks, > Majid Hussain > > On 22/04/2020, Mark Knecht wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:45 AM Majid Hussain > > wrote: > >> > >> hi there, > >> now er days, the mate desktop is considderd very accessible, > >> compared to gnome, > >> orca is the screen reader used when a gui is launched, > >> espeakup is the screen reader that is used on the tty before xorg and > >> friends are launched, > >> it's what debian uses on the net install image, > >> hence me asking if espeakup would be able to be added to an iso image? > >> unless there's away of building your own iso image from a non gentoo > > system? > >> Majid > >> > > > > Hi Majid, > >I know nothing about accessibility systems but the meat of installing > > Gentoo is essentially just you executing a bunch of instructions inside of > > a chroot. You can start with any distro that currently provides > > accessibility for you, set aside some disk space, chroot into it and then > > do the Gentoo install work there. If the distro you start with can read > > what's going on in that terminal as well as the install instructions off > > the web pages for this task then I think you should be good to go. > > > > Hope this helps, > > Mark > > > > > -- > kind regards, > Majid Hussain Hi Majid, Again, I know nothing at all about how you deal with these tasks with blindness. A few things: 1) This list tends to a a bottom posting list. I don't think anyone is going to give you much grief about top posting. I certainly won't. 2) Fundamentally you just need to follow the isntall guide located here: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64 Under the section "Installing Gentoo" there are a bunch of links. The first 5 are basically about getting a new box with no OS booting, setting up a network, basic stuff. You should have all of that from any OS you boot. TO BE CLEAR: you can do this on your existing system if it's Linux based and you have disk space available to play with. You can do this in a Virtualbox VM. There is NO requirement to use a new empty system. Find some disk space and follow the "Preparing the disks" and "Installing the Gentoo installation files" sections to map out the design of your system. Once that is done the section "Installing the Gentoo Base system" is where you chroot into what will eventually become your machine. At that point you are running Gentoo inside the chroot. You just build it p following the instructions. I hope this helps a little. Once you get started youo can ask questions here and I am certain you'll get responses. This is, for the 25 years I've been using Linux, the most helpful place on the web for both Gentoo and general Linux admin sorts of topics. Warm welcomes and best of luck. I'm excited to see how you do. Cheers, Mark
Flexibility and robustness in the Linux organisim (was: [gentoo-user] separate / and /usr to require initramfs 2013-11-01)
On 09/29/2013 07:58 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: things were broken way before that. As much as I hate systemd, it is not the root cause of the problem. The problems were caused by people saying that seperate /usr was a good idea, so / would not fill up and similar idiocies. The problems were caused by people saying that lvm is a good idea - for desktops. Those people who are fighting against the kernel auto assembling raids are to blame too. Systemd is just another point in a very long list. The usr filesystem was separate from root from the very early days of UNIX. Disks were *tiny* (compared to today) and spreading certain things across separate spindles provided major benefits. Certainly, the original need to require a separate usr went away fairly quickly, but other benefits continued to encourage a seperation between root and usr. The var filesystem was for variable system data, and was never terribly big and its inclusion on the root volume happened. The home filesystem became traditionally separate because data expands to fill all availab;e space, and users collect *things* Networking made it possible to have home entirely off system, and diskless worstations ruled for a while as well. By the time Linux came along, it had become common for boot volumes to not be mounted during normal system operation, but the three filesystem layout was common and workable. As Linux continued to be like Topsy (she jest growed!) fragmentation started to occur as distributions arose. The balkanization of Linux distributions became a real concern to some and standardization offorts were encouraged. The File System Standard (FSS) was renamed to the Filesystem Hierarch Standard (FHS) and it was strongly based on the UNIX System V definitions (which called for seperation of usr and root.) POSIX added more layers and attempted to bring in the various BSD flavors. THe LSB (Linux Standards Base) effort was conceived as supersceeding all the other efforts, and FHS was folded into the LSB definition. Yet even then a separate root and usr distinction survived. Then things started falling apart again - POSIX rose like a phoenix and even the Windows/wintel environment could claim POSIX compliant behavior. The fall of the LSB effort really became evident when the FHS was gutted and certain major players decided to ignore the LSB recommendations. (Look out, there are some severely mixed metaphors coming and perhaps even some allegory Bear with it and you should get the gist of my accusations.) And now we are here. There is no clear definition of what comprises this OS that is a Linux kernel and a largely GNU based user-land. There are two major X-Windows based Desktop Environments and many less major DEs and Linux is seen as being locked in a struggle with the Microsoft OSs to win the hearts and minds of the Users. This is quite scary to many folks who depend on the success of Linux winning the so-called war. One of the camps bent on wining the war is GNOME. Despite much history and experience that shows that choice and freedom are NOT disadvantages, the mainline GNOME folks have charged ahead on their own in a direction that overrides user choice and seems bound and determined to outdo Microsoft at their own game. As a result, the GNOME Alliance has shattered. The main GNOME army marches on its unfathomable path, and various large chunks have broke off in their own directions (e.g. Cinnamon and Mate) seeking to remain flexible and not incompatible with the KDE and other lesser DE folks. It is truly layable at the feet of the GNOME folks, the breakage of the root and usr filesystem separability is all derived from the GNOME camp. These changes may not, in fact, be deliberate or intended to defeat Microsoft, but Ockham's Razor cuts and intentionality is the simpler explanation. I am NOT happy with the situation as it stands. Efforts that I have made on behalf of the FOSS and Linux/GNU are no longer serving to benefit me and the others with whom I thought I shared aspirations. I am an OS Agnostic/Atheist. I use what works to do what I need to do. My at-home network includes all four (or is that 3.5?) consumer OSes. I have spent quite a bit of effort to have them all work together, but forces seem to be in play that seem determined to win at all costs and enforce a computing monoculture. Such a result is not a good thing. As with biological systems, monocultures are more vulnerable to interference and disease. The evolution of differentiated organ systems in more complex (or higher) forms of life is driven by the need to provide robustness and continued operation in the face of unknown challenges. To come back to the thesis: robustness and flexibility are required for good health and we are witnessing a dangerous challenge. [PS} If anybody cares, I was trained in both Computer Science and Biological Science. and I can expand
Re: Flexibility and robustness in the Linux organisim (was: [gentoo-user] separate / and /usr to require initramfs 2013-11-01)
On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 6:12 PM, Greg Woodbury redwo...@gmail.com wrote: On 09/29/2013 07:58 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: things were broken way before that. As much as I hate systemd, it is not the root cause of the problem. The problems were caused by people saying that seperate /usr was a good idea, so / would not fill up and similar idiocies. The problems were caused by people saying that lvm is a good idea - for desktops. Those people who are fighting against the kernel auto assembling raids are to blame too. Systemd is just another point in a very long list. The usr filesystem was separate from root from the very early days of UNIX. Disks were *tiny* (compared to today) and spreading certain things across separate spindles provided major benefits. Certainly, the original need to require a separate usr went away fairly quickly, but other benefits continued to encourage a seperation between root and usr. The var filesystem was for variable system data, and was never terribly big and its inclusion on the root volume happened. The home filesystem became traditionally separate because data expands to fill all availab;e space, and users collect *things* Networking made it possible to have home entirely off system, and diskless worstations ruled for a while as well. By the time Linux came along, it had become common for boot volumes to not be mounted during normal system operation, but the three filesystem layout was common and workable. As Linux continued to be like Topsy (she jest growed!) fragmentation started to occur as distributions arose. The balkanization of Linux distributions became a real concern to some and standardization offorts were encouraged. The File System Standard (FSS) was renamed to the Filesystem Hierarch Standard (FHS) and it was strongly based on the UNIX System V definitions (which called for seperation of usr and root.) POSIX added more layers and attempted to bring in the various BSD flavors. THe LSB (Linux Standards Base) effort was conceived as supersceeding all the other efforts, and FHS was folded into the LSB definition. Yet even then a separate root and usr distinction survived. Then things started falling apart again - POSIX rose like a phoenix and even the Windows/wintel environment could claim POSIX compliant behavior. The fall of the LSB effort really became evident when the FHS was gutted and certain major players decided to ignore the LSB recommendations. (Look out, there are some severely mixed metaphors coming and perhaps even some allegory Bear with it and you should get the gist of my accusations.) And now we are here. There is no clear definition of what comprises this OS that is a Linux kernel and a largely GNU based user-land. There are two major X-Windows based Desktop Environments and many less major DEs and Linux is seen as being locked in a struggle with the Microsoft OSs to win the hearts and minds of the Users. This is quite scary to many folks who depend on the success of Linux winning the so-called war. One of the camps bent on wining the war is GNOME. Despite much history and experience that shows that choice and freedom are NOT disadvantages, the mainline GNOME folks have charged ahead on their own in a direction that overrides user choice and seems bound and determined to outdo Microsoft at their own game. As a result, the GNOME Alliance has shattered. The main GNOME army marches on its unfathomable path, and various large chunks have broke off in their own directions (e.g. Cinnamon and Mate) seeking to remain flexible and not incompatible with the KDE and other lesser DE folks. It is truly layable at the feet of the GNOME folks, the breakage of the root and usr filesystem separability is all derived from the GNOME camp. These changes may not, in fact, be deliberate or intended to defeat Microsoft, but Ockham's Razor cuts and intentionality is the simpler explanation. I am NOT happy with the situation as it stands. Efforts that I have made on behalf of the FOSS and Linux/GNU are no longer serving to benefit me and the others with whom I thought I shared aspirations. I am an OS Agnostic/Atheist. I use what works to do what I need to do. My at-home network includes all four (or is that 3.5?) consumer OSes. I have spent quite a bit of effort to have them all work together, but forces seem to be in play that seem determined to win at all costs and enforce a computing monoculture. Such a result is not a good thing. As with biological systems, monocultures are more vulnerable to interference and disease. The evolution of differentiated organ systems in more complex (or higher) forms of life is driven by the need to provide robustness and continued operation in the face of unknown challenges. To come back to the thesis: robustness and flexibility are required for good health and we are witnessing
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: nvidia driver missing symbols
On 01/07/2017 09:46 AM, Dale wrote: > Daniel Frey wrote: >> On 01/07/2017 07:29 AM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >>> On 01/07/2017 07:49 AM, Daniel Frey wrote: >>>> So I just recompiled DRM/KMS from the kernel, recompiled, redid the >>>> initramfs (just in case) and rebooted. >>>> >>>> The errors are also gone but I now have this: >>>> >>>> [ 31.918334] nvidia-modeset: Loading NVIDIA Kernel Mode Setting Driver >>>> for UNIX platforms 375.26 Thu Dec 8 18:04:14 PST 2016 >>>> [ 31.918704] nvidia-modeset: Allocated GPU:0 >>>> (GPU-14e248cf-aecd-cf7a-31f4-113e6d075ece) @ PCI::01:00.0 >>>> >>>> ...which I didn't have before. >>> Yep. The nvidia KMS module conflicts with the in-kernel KMS >>> implementation. It doesn't get loaded if in-kernel KMS is enabled, and >>> then you get errors because of that. >>> >>> Btw, if you pay attention to the initial emerge messages when emerging >>> nvidia-drivers, they actually tell you to disable DRM/KMS in the kernel >>> ;-) The ebuild checks your current kernel config, and if it sees that >>> stuff enabled, it warns you that you will most probably run into issues. >>> >>> >>>> Now that all that crap is sorted out, the only couple annoying things >>>> left are alt+tab switching in plasma, and the slowness of dolphin. Task >>>> switching is slow as f*** and it's irritating. >>> I get that too, but only the first time I press alt+tab. After the task >>> switch effect has been displayed once, it seems it gets cached and then >>> it's fast. >>> >>> But overall, KDE (and KWin in particular) doesn't play well with the >>> nvidia driver. I was able to fix most of my issues by following some >>> advice from a KWin developer: >>> >>> * Enable triple buffering in xorg. nvidia-drivers requires a conf file >>> anyway to work correctly. I have it in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/nvidia.conf, >>> and the contents are: >>> >>> http://pastebin.com/raw/0y3NMndp >>> >>> This enables triple buffering and disables twinview. >>> >>> * Set some KWin environment variables. Instead of setting them globally, >>> use a script named "kwin_x11" in a location that appears before /usr/bin >>> in PATH. /usr/local/bin does that, so I have a /usr/local/bin/kwin_x11 >>> file (it must be executable: chmod +x kwin_x11) with this in it: >>> >>> KWIN_TRIPLE_BUFFER=1 __GL_YIELD="USLEEP" exec /usr/bin/kwin_x11 $@ >>> >>> (/usr/local/bin *must* be before /usr/bin in your PATH variable, >>> otherwise this doesn't work.) >>> >>> * Configure kwin to think it must use a higher refresh rate than your >>> monitor's refresh rate. For 60Hz, your ~/.config/kwinrc must contain: >>> >>> [Compositing] >>> MaxFPS=70 >>> RefreshRate=70 >>> >>> (There's other stuff in the [Compositing] section, don't delete those.) >>> >>> * See if disabling vsync in the nvidia-settings control panel helps. >>> >>> After doing all that, KDE is quite usable for me. However, it's far from >>> perfect. But if you don't want to switch from KDE to some other desktop >>> environment, and can't deal with the performance issues of the nouveau >>> driver, then you have not much choice here. >>> >>> >> Thanks for the tips! Currently I'm taking the lazy way out and doing >> `emerge -e world`. I don't think that'll fix the alt+tab situation, but >> maybe it'll fix other stuff. If not I'll try krusader as Philip posted. >> >> I ran `emerge -e system` last night and it was finished when I woke up, >> so now I'll let it chug @world for the day. >> >> For me, 1 out of 5 times alt+tab works on the first try. The other 4 out >> of 5 tries I have to press alt+tab as much as 4 times to get it to >> respond. :-( >> >> I haven't updated my laptop yet and was stunned at how fluid kde4 was, >> hence my comment about shipping buggy code. >> >> Dan >> >> > > Just me thinking this over. Could it be a hardware problem? Maybe the > alt or tab key is not always working correctly? I use ctrl alt L to > lock my screen. Sometimes I have to do it a few times. Thing is, I > know this old keyboard has its moments and fails to work, since other > keys do the same thing. Just thought I would mention it. > > Dale > > :-) :-) > No, it's not a hardware problem, I also have Mate installed and it doesn't exhibit this behaviour. Dan
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: nvidia driver missing symbols
Daniel Frey wrote: > On 01/07/2017 09:46 AM, Dale wrote: >> Daniel Frey wrote: >>> On 01/07/2017 07:29 AM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >>>> On 01/07/2017 07:49 AM, Daniel Frey wrote: >>>>> So I just recompiled DRM/KMS from the kernel, recompiled, redid the >>>>> initramfs (just in case) and rebooted. >>>>> >>>>> The errors are also gone but I now have this: >>>>> >>>>> [ 31.918334] nvidia-modeset: Loading NVIDIA Kernel Mode Setting Driver >>>>> for UNIX platforms 375.26 Thu Dec 8 18:04:14 PST 2016 >>>>> [ 31.918704] nvidia-modeset: Allocated GPU:0 >>>>> (GPU-14e248cf-aecd-cf7a-31f4-113e6d075ece) @ PCI::01:00.0 >>>>> >>>>> ...which I didn't have before. >>>> Yep. The nvidia KMS module conflicts with the in-kernel KMS >>>> implementation. It doesn't get loaded if in-kernel KMS is enabled, and >>>> then you get errors because of that. >>>> >>>> Btw, if you pay attention to the initial emerge messages when emerging >>>> nvidia-drivers, they actually tell you to disable DRM/KMS in the kernel >>>> ;-) The ebuild checks your current kernel config, and if it sees that >>>> stuff enabled, it warns you that you will most probably run into issues. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Now that all that crap is sorted out, the only couple annoying things >>>>> left are alt+tab switching in plasma, and the slowness of dolphin. Task >>>>> switching is slow as f*** and it's irritating. >>>> I get that too, but only the first time I press alt+tab. After the task >>>> switch effect has been displayed once, it seems it gets cached and then >>>> it's fast. >>>> >>>> But overall, KDE (and KWin in particular) doesn't play well with the >>>> nvidia driver. I was able to fix most of my issues by following some >>>> advice from a KWin developer: >>>> >>>> * Enable triple buffering in xorg. nvidia-drivers requires a conf file >>>> anyway to work correctly. I have it in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/nvidia.conf, >>>> and the contents are: >>>> >>>> http://pastebin.com/raw/0y3NMndp >>>> >>>> This enables triple buffering and disables twinview. >>>> >>>> * Set some KWin environment variables. Instead of setting them globally, >>>> use a script named "kwin_x11" in a location that appears before /usr/bin >>>> in PATH. /usr/local/bin does that, so I have a /usr/local/bin/kwin_x11 >>>> file (it must be executable: chmod +x kwin_x11) with this in it: >>>> >>>> KWIN_TRIPLE_BUFFER=1 __GL_YIELD="USLEEP" exec /usr/bin/kwin_x11 $@ >>>> >>>> (/usr/local/bin *must* be before /usr/bin in your PATH variable, >>>> otherwise this doesn't work.) >>>> >>>> * Configure kwin to think it must use a higher refresh rate than your >>>> monitor's refresh rate. For 60Hz, your ~/.config/kwinrc must contain: >>>> >>>> [Compositing] >>>> MaxFPS=70 >>>> RefreshRate=70 >>>> >>>> (There's other stuff in the [Compositing] section, don't delete those.) >>>> >>>> * See if disabling vsync in the nvidia-settings control panel helps. >>>> >>>> After doing all that, KDE is quite usable for me. However, it's far from >>>> perfect. But if you don't want to switch from KDE to some other desktop >>>> environment, and can't deal with the performance issues of the nouveau >>>> driver, then you have not much choice here. >>>> >>>> >>> Thanks for the tips! Currently I'm taking the lazy way out and doing >>> `emerge -e world`. I don't think that'll fix the alt+tab situation, but >>> maybe it'll fix other stuff. If not I'll try krusader as Philip posted. >>> >>> I ran `emerge -e system` last night and it was finished when I woke up, >>> so now I'll let it chug @world for the day. >>> >>> For me, 1 out of 5 times alt+tab works on the first try. The other 4 out >>> of 5 tries I have to press alt+tab as much as 4 times to get it to >>> respond. :-( >>> >>> I haven't updated my laptop yet and was stunned at how fluid kde4 was, >>> hence my comment about shipping buggy code. >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> >> Just me thinking this over. Could it be a hardware problem? Maybe the >> alt or tab key is not always working correctly? I use ctrl alt L to >> lock my screen. Sometimes I have to do it a few times. Thing is, I >> know this old keyboard has its moments and fails to work, since other >> keys do the same thing. Just thought I would mention it. >> >> Dale >> >> :-) :-) >> > No, it's not a hardware problem, I also have Mate installed and it > doesn't exhibit this behaviour. > > Dan > > > Sounds good. I'd hate for you to be chasing a software problem when it is bad hardware. LOL That eliminates that. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: nvidia driver missing symbols
On 01/07/2017 08:37 PM, Dale wrote: > Daniel Frey wrote: >> On 01/07/2017 09:46 AM, Dale wrote: >>> Daniel Frey wrote: >>>> On 01/07/2017 07:29 AM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >>>>> On 01/07/2017 07:49 AM, Daniel Frey wrote: >>>>>> So I just recompiled DRM/KMS from the kernel, recompiled, redid the >>>>>> initramfs (just in case) and rebooted. >>>>>> >>>>>> The errors are also gone but I now have this: >>>>>> >>>>>> [ 31.918334] nvidia-modeset: Loading NVIDIA Kernel Mode Setting Driver >>>>>> for UNIX platforms 375.26 Thu Dec 8 18:04:14 PST 2016 >>>>>> [ 31.918704] nvidia-modeset: Allocated GPU:0 >>>>>> (GPU-14e248cf-aecd-cf7a-31f4-113e6d075ece) @ PCI::01:00.0 >>>>>> >>>>>> ...which I didn't have before. >>>>> Yep. The nvidia KMS module conflicts with the in-kernel KMS >>>>> implementation. It doesn't get loaded if in-kernel KMS is enabled, and >>>>> then you get errors because of that. >>>>> >>>>> Btw, if you pay attention to the initial emerge messages when emerging >>>>> nvidia-drivers, they actually tell you to disable DRM/KMS in the kernel >>>>> ;-) The ebuild checks your current kernel config, and if it sees that >>>>> stuff enabled, it warns you that you will most probably run into issues. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Now that all that crap is sorted out, the only couple annoying things >>>>>> left are alt+tab switching in plasma, and the slowness of dolphin. Task >>>>>> switching is slow as f*** and it's irritating. >>>>> I get that too, but only the first time I press alt+tab. After the task >>>>> switch effect has been displayed once, it seems it gets cached and then >>>>> it's fast. >>>>> >>>>> But overall, KDE (and KWin in particular) doesn't play well with the >>>>> nvidia driver. I was able to fix most of my issues by following some >>>>> advice from a KWin developer: >>>>> >>>>> * Enable triple buffering in xorg. nvidia-drivers requires a conf file >>>>> anyway to work correctly. I have it in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/nvidia.conf, >>>>> and the contents are: >>>>> >>>>> http://pastebin.com/raw/0y3NMndp >>>>> >>>>> This enables triple buffering and disables twinview. >>>>> >>>>> * Set some KWin environment variables. Instead of setting them globally, >>>>> use a script named "kwin_x11" in a location that appears before /usr/bin >>>>> in PATH. /usr/local/bin does that, so I have a /usr/local/bin/kwin_x11 >>>>> file (it must be executable: chmod +x kwin_x11) with this in it: >>>>> >>>>> KWIN_TRIPLE_BUFFER=1 __GL_YIELD="USLEEP" exec /usr/bin/kwin_x11 $@ >>>>> >>>>> (/usr/local/bin *must* be before /usr/bin in your PATH variable, >>>>> otherwise this doesn't work.) >>>>> >>>>> * Configure kwin to think it must use a higher refresh rate than your >>>>> monitor's refresh rate. For 60Hz, your ~/.config/kwinrc must contain: >>>>> >>>>> [Compositing] >>>>> MaxFPS=70 >>>>> RefreshRate=70 >>>>> >>>>> (There's other stuff in the [Compositing] section, don't delete those.) >>>>> >>>>> * See if disabling vsync in the nvidia-settings control panel helps. >>>>> >>>>> After doing all that, KDE is quite usable for me. However, it's far from >>>>> perfect. But if you don't want to switch from KDE to some other desktop >>>>> environment, and can't deal with the performance issues of the nouveau >>>>> driver, then you have not much choice here. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Thanks for the tips! Currently I'm taking the lazy way out and doing >>>> `emerge -e world`. I don't think that'll fix the alt+tab situation, but >>>> maybe it'll fix other stuff. If not I'll try krusader as Philip posted. >>>> >>>> I ran `emerge -e system` last night and it was finished when I woke up, >>>> so now I'll let it chug @world for the day. >>>> >>>> For me, 1 out of 5 times alt+tab works on the first try. The other 4 out >>>> of 5 tries I have to press alt+tab as much as 4 times to get it to >>>> respond. :-( >>>> >>>> I haven't updated my laptop yet and was stunned at how fluid kde4 was, >>>> hence my comment about shipping buggy code. >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> >>> Just me thinking this over. Could it be a hardware problem? Maybe the >>> alt or tab key is not always working correctly? I use ctrl alt L to >>> lock my screen. Sometimes I have to do it a few times. Thing is, I >>> know this old keyboard has its moments and fails to work, since other >>> keys do the same thing. Just thought I would mention it. >>> >>> Dale >>> >>> :-) :-) >>> >> No, it's not a hardware problem, I also have Mate installed and it >> doesn't exhibit this behaviour. >> >> Dan >> >> >> > > Sounds good. I'd hate for you to be chasing a software problem when it > is bad hardware. LOL > > That eliminates that. > > Dale > > :-) :-) > Yeah, been there, done that. Remember my "won't wake up from sleep" problem from a couple years ago? I was looking at software and it was a bad cap in the PSU. ROFL. Dan
Re: [gentoo-user] Removing pulseaudio
the need exists to strip a system down so as to isolate those problems? As I said below: if PA has problems, they need to be fixed. Did you report the bugs? If PA has bugs in some configuration, those bugs need to be fixed; the solution (in the GNOME developers view) is not to remove PA, since the goal of the project is to cover *ALL* use cases. pulseaudio is a server component - gnome is an application. They are at different levels of the system hierarchy, just as a mail transport agent and mail user agent are. The maintainers of mutt don't force the use of, say, postfix. By long tradition on *nix, sysadmins configure their own systems, selecting those components which best fit their needs. gnome's decision to mandate pulseaudio interferes with this tradition. IMAO, this is a Bad Thing. GNOME is a desktop environment, and it wants (from some years now) a vertical integration from kernel to the last userspace application. I root for that. And I have been using Unix since 1996, and I don't care about what *nix long traditions are. I want a Linux system that works from my cellphone to my big iron server, and everything in between. I don't even care about *BSD; I don't wish them any ill, but I don't care about them. If you don't agree with that, that's fine; but if a big enough set of developers thinks similarly, several projects will move in that direction. It's already happening. But hey, the source is there; feel free to patch whatever needs to be patched in GNOME (and probably GStreamer) so it doesn't require PA. Just be certain that those patches will be rejected by upstream, for the reasons stated above. Making minor changes to free software is impracticable on a casual basis. Only forking a project can do this. You know this full well. Well, fork away then. It's in your freedoms when it comes to free software. Look at the success stories from MATE, Cinnamon, the Trinity Desktop Environment and eudev. And by the way, this is also true for Gentoo: it cannot support all different sets of possible configurations, no matter how hard they/we try. It come pretty close. :-) http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/85223 I'm not sure about the future of the core of OpenRC: Upstart systemd have some clear architectural benefits, despite their implementation shortcomings (either upstream or per-distro). The /usr merge is inevitable, as is the integration of other components into the init system (udev, dbus, ...). What has become dis-integrated instead is the configuration: lots of hardware ships specific udev rules with few problems. That's a Gentoo developer talking. Many of them think like that; many of them oppose them. But the truth is, Linux distributions are moving to a vertical, tightly integrated OS. There will always be niche distros for the people that don't like this (and hey, that's the beauty of using Free Software), but the big distros are going that way. It's possible that Gentoo will follow (as did Arch, as Debian-based Tanglu and Gentoo-based Sabayon are doing). Greg Korah-Hartman will integrate an incarnation of dbus (or something really similar) into the kernel: https://plus.google.com/u/0/111049168280159033135/posts/BDgg5DKVjkX and then the only required dependency for systemd will be Linux. Man, that will be a nice day. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone using xfce4 with compositing turned off?
Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday 22 Aug 2015 03:08:41 waben...@gmail.com wrote: walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: I'm seeing horrible performance from the xfce window manager (xfwm4) on my main, everyday machine, but not on an older backup machine or on any of the linux virtual machines I run on virtualbox. The symptoms: moving a window with the mouse is so slow as to be painful, and the CPU usage (on one of four CPUs) jumps to 100% almost immediately (xfwm4 is the culprit, see below). I'm using XFCE as DE and xfwm4 as WM. Since I bought a new GPU (Radeon R7 250), I don't use compositing any more because it causes tearing when I watch videos in fullscreen with 3840x2160. With this GPU I also had some random freezes when compositing was enabled. Beside this, performance is very good, regardless compositing is enabled or disabled. Scrolling text or moving windows around is a bit faster and smoother with compositing enabled, especially when other windows are in the foreground. With my old GPU (Radeon HD4550) I always had compositing enabled. Everything was smoother and I saw absolutely no glitches, but performance was also good with compositing disabled, just not quite as smooth as with compositing enabled. If I open an xterm and run (for example) /usr/bin/marco --replace, this sluggish behavior returns to normal immediately. After wasting hours on google I finally noticed that I had compiled x11-wm/xfwm4 with the xcomposite useflag disabled, so I enabled it and re-emerged xfwm4. Now I can get decent performance from xfwm4, but only if first I turn on compositing by running xfwm4-tweaks-settings. (No, not by running the puny and feeble xfwm4-settings app: I need to invoke a tweak to make xfce4 an acceptable Desktop Environment on my main desktop machine. As long as I use XFCE (many years) xfwm4-tweaks-settings is the program to toggle compositing. It's just a name, what is the problem? :-) Or do you mean, that you must enable compositing every time you start XFCE? official rant mode I remember going through this same frustration with gnome3, which was (and is) unusable without installing the gnome-tweak-tool package and using it to customize settings that I still don't understand. (That's why I finally gave up on gnome3, and I may yet give up on xfce4 and go back to mate.) Note that I'm not turning off official rant mode yet, but I should mention that this machine is ~amd64 with ati-drivers-15.7 and vanilla kernel 3.14.51. (Same problem with gentoo-sources-3.18.19, BTW.) I'm using stable xf86-video-ati and stable hardened-sources. I never used ati-drivers because I don't like to have proprietary software on my gentoo box. For me xf86-video-ati works well and has a sufficient 2D and 3D performance. -- Regards wabe Hmm ... interesting. I have a PC with the Kaveri APU, which also uses the R7 graphics engine, but compositing has no problems for general desktop usage (with two monitors). 00:01.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Kaveri [Radeon R7 Graphics] (prog-if 00 [VGA controller]) Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Kaveri [Radeon R7 Graphics] Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 25 Memory at e000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=256M] Memory at f000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=8M] I/O ports at f000 [size=256] Memory at feb0 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=256K] Expansion ROM at feb4 [disabled] [size=128K] Capabilities: [48] Vendor Specific Information: Len=08 ? Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [58] Express Root Complex Integrated Endpoint, MSI 00 Capabilities: [a0] MSI: Enable+ Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit+ Capabilities: [100] Vendor Specific Information: ID=0001 Rev=1 Len=010 ? Capabilities: [270] #19 Capabilities: [2b0] Address Translation Service (ATS) Capabilities: [2c0] #13 Capabilities: [2d0] #1b Kernel driver in use: radeon I don't know if your card is significantly different, but can share settings if you are interested. Hi Mick, it seems that there are some differences (see below) but I'm interested in your settings anyway. Maybe they help me to make compositing usable on my system, but actually I don't have much hope that this will be the case. Without composite, my system is rock stable and video playback is smooth. First I missed the fancy window/menu shadows and the semi-transparency when moving/resizing windows, but now I'm also happy without these eye candies. The only thing that I'm still missing is the smooth scrolling of window content. This is indeed a bit better with compositing enabled. 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Cape Verde PRO [Radeon HD 7750 / R7
