Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On 17 February 2010 00:12, Volker Armin Hemmann you want dependency nightmare? openoffice depends on libwpd libwpd depends on libgsf libgsf pulls gconf in. I don't need wordperfect, I don't want gnome. No way to get rid of that crap. I know. :-( Even basic libs are pulling in tons of gnome crap today. Why? KDE does not infest low level stuff. If you don't want KDE stuff, you don't have to install it. But thanks to some §§$$%§$@ even low level libs and apps pull in that shit today. If freedesktop wouldn't be that sick joke it is, such behaviour wouldn't be. One more reason why over the years I gravitated towards using KDE apps and staying away from Gnome. I think that a maturing Linux has inevitably become heavier in terms of DEs and dependencies. Even on my new laptop I will be staying away from Gnome as a DE and am thinking of giving LXDE a spin, to see if it is any better than Fluxbox. -- Regards, Mick
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
- Original Message From: Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com I also happen to own a couple of old PCs which I try to keep lean and I don't mind the odd double declutching to change gears. Now, I understand the development philosophy of KDE4 since this was very well explained, but that does not stop me wishing that the developers were a bit more modular in their approach. This is because I would like to use a few KDE apps, but do not want to have to download and install a load of ever increasing dependencies. I am after a pick 'n mix from the sweet shop, rather than being 'forced' to have one of each. All I can say is try submitting a patch to the KDE folk. They're not setting out to support that kind of environment, but you never know what kinds of patches they'll take. They are looking at low-end systems and scalability (read asiego's blog for info) - from phones to netbooks to laptops/desktops to servers. So if you want to run KDE4 on those lean+mean systems, check with them - there's probably a branch of KDE4 you can use. Just 2 cents. Ben
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: openoffice depends on libwpd libwpd depends on libgsf libgsf pulls gconf in. Hm. I actually have OO (non-binary version) installed althoughI dislike bloat... However, I don't have gconf installed (USE: -gnome, globally in make.conf). I run stable so that, of course, may be different for ~arch or something... Even basic libs are pulling in tons of gnome crap today. Why? KDE does not infest low level stuff. If you don't want KDE stuff, you don't have to install it. But thanks to some §§$$%§$@ even low level libs and apps pull in that shit today. Well, try to pull in K3b and you'll also get the kitchen the sink with _mandatory_ USE-flag 'accessibility' amongst other things. I had K3b working fine before KDE4 with minimal KDE support libs. So I gave K3b up. Oh, well, progress I guess... :-/ Best regards / MfG Peter K
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Mittwoch 17 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: openoffice depends on libwpd libwpd depends on libgsf libgsf pulls gconf in. Hm. I actually have OO (non-binary version) installed althoughI dislike bloat... However, I don't have gconf installed (USE: -gnome, globally in make.conf). I run stable so that, of course, may be different for ~arch or something... Even basic libs are pulling in tons of gnome crap today. Why? KDE does not infest low level stuff. If you don't want KDE stuff, you don't have to install it. But thanks to some §§$$%§$@ even low level libs and apps pull in that shit today. Well, try to pull in K3b and you'll also get the kitchen the sink with _mandatory_ USE-flag 'accessibility' amongst other things. I had K3b working fine before KDE4 with minimal KDE support libs. So I gave K3b up. Oh, well, progress I guess... :-/ Best regards / MfG Peter K What did you use in place of k3b? Is it a GUI or command line? you could try tkdvd. It is ugly but pretty much feature complete.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: openoffice depends on libwpd libwpd depends on libgsf libgsf pulls gconf in. Hm. I actually have OO (non-binary version) installed althoughI dislike bloat... However, I don't have gconf installed (USE: -gnome, globally in make.conf). I run stable so that, of course, may be different for ~arch or something... Even basic libs are pulling in tons of gnome crap today. Why? KDE does not infest low level stuff. If you don't want KDE stuff, you don't have to install it. But thanks to some §§$$%§$@ even low level libs and apps pull in that shit today. Well, try to pull in K3b and you'll also get the kitchen the sink with _mandatory_ USE-flag 'accessibility' amongst other things. I had K3b working fine before KDE4 with minimal KDE support libs. So I gave K3b up. Oh, well, progress I guess... :-/ Best regards / MfG Peter K What did you use in place of k3b? Is it a GUI or command line? Thanks, Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
Dale wrote: What did you use in place of k3b? Is it a GUI or command line? cdrecord. I also have installed, but I haven't used it yet, XFburn... Best regards Peter K
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Sunday 14 February 2010 12:40:59 Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sunday 14 February 2010 13:02:48 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: I highly recommend drivers to gain the skill of driving a vehicle crash-style without a clutch. Comes in useful sometimes. :-) the point was not stick but unsyncronized ;) I know. I just felt like tossing sounding in that sounded awfully clever :-) I also like manual gearboxes and for some years I was driving an old Series IIA Land Rover which had straight cut gears on first and second and it whined when driven at any speed. If you didn't double declutch to go from 2nd to 1st and occasionally from 3rd to 2nd you would eventually end up with a box-full of gears and no forward drive! I also happen to own a couple of old PCs which I try to keep lean and I don't mind the odd double declutching to change gears. Now, I understand the development philosophy of KDE4 since this was very well explained, but that does not stop me wishing that the developers were a bit more modular in their approach. This is because I would like to use a few KDE apps, but do not want to have to download and install a load of ever increasing dependencies. I am after a pick 'n mix from the sweet shop, rather than being 'forced' to have one of each. However, the point has been well made by many. KDE4 is not KDE3.x and with KDE4 you get the full enchilada because that's what the developers have produced. Since I do not have the ability (or time) to fork KDE4 into my own flavour I will very much have to make do and be grateful with what developers care to offer. As I progressively upgrade my hardware all this aforementioned 'bloat' will no doubt be less of a concern, but as things are maturing in the Linux land my old laptop has been getting slower and slower over the years when running X. I can blame this on Xorg, but the applications themselves are getting aheam heavier somewhat too. I wonder if there is enough of a user requirement here for some of us to knock up a few wiki pages of how to build a slimmer gentoo, choices of lightweight WMs, desktop apps of choice, etc. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Wednesday 17 February 2010 01:21:22 Mick wrote: However, the point has been well made by many. KDE4 is not KDE3.x and with KDE4 you get the full enchilada because that's what the developers have produced. Since I do not have the ability (or time) to fork KDE4 into my own flavour I will very much have to make do and be grateful with what developers care to offer. As I progressively upgrade my hardware all this aforementioned 'bloat' will no doubt be less of a concern, but as things are maturing in the Linux land my old laptop has been getting slower and slower over the years when running X. I can blame this on Xorg, but the applications themselves are getting aheam heavier somewhat too. I wonder if there is enough of a user requirement here for some of us to knock up a few wiki pages of how to build a slimmer gentoo, choices of lightweight WMs, desktop apps of choice, etc. The gentoo wiki (I can never remember the URL - it's the user maintained one) already has a great many such pages. In particular lxde and xfce4 fly on older hardware and is well received by and large by people wanting lean and mean desktops. The various *box WMs also had decent writeups on getting them running last time I looked. A few eyeballs on those pages and updating them if necessary would not go amiss. Many people would like to have slimmer alternatives to the usual monstrous culprits: firefox, thunderbird, openoffice, evolution. KDE4 does not suit everyone (neither are Ferraris and Toyotas), so while it is important to understand what KDE4 is and what the limits are, and not try to make it something other than what it is, there is definitely room for systems completely devoid of anything from KDE and/or Gnome. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Mittwoch 17 Februar 2010, Mick wrote: On Sunday 14 February 2010 12:40:59 Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sunday 14 February 2010 13:02:48 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: I highly recommend drivers to gain the skill of driving a vehicle crash-style without a clutch. Comes in useful sometimes. :-) the point was not stick but unsyncronized ;) I know. I just felt like tossing sounding in that sounded awfully clever :-) I also like manual gearboxes and for some years I was driving an old Series IIA Land Rover which had straight cut gears on first and second and it whined when driven at any speed. If you didn't double declutch to go from 2nd to 1st and occasionally from 3rd to 2nd you would eventually end up with a box-full of gears and no forward drive! I also happen to own a couple of old PCs which I try to keep lean and I don't mind the odd double declutching to change gears. Now, I understand the development philosophy of KDE4 since this was very well explained, but that does not stop me wishing that the developers were a bit more modular in their approach. This is because I would like to use a few KDE apps, but do not want to have to download and install a load of ever increasing dependencies. I am after a pick 'n mix from the sweet shop, rather than being 'forced' to have one of each. However, the point has been well made by many. KDE4 is not KDE3.x and with KDE4 you get the full enchilada because that's what the developers have produced. Since I do not have the ability (or time) to fork KDE4 into my own flavour I will very much have to make do and be grateful with what developers care to offer. As I progressively upgrade my hardware all this aforementioned 'bloat' will no doubt be less of a concern, but as things are maturing in the Linux land my old laptop has been getting slower and slower over the years when running X. I can blame this on Xorg, but the applications themselves are getting aheam heavier somewhat too. I wonder if there is enough of a user requirement here for some of us to knock up a few wiki pages of how to build a slimmer gentoo, choices of lightweight WMs, desktop apps of choice, etc. you want dependency nightmare? openoffice depends on libwpd libwpd depends on libgsf libgsf pulls gconf in. I don't need wordperfect, I don't want gnome. No way to get rid of that crap. Even basic libs are pulling in tons of gnome crap today. Why? KDE does not infest low level stuff. If you don't want KDE stuff, you don't have to install it. But thanks to some §§$$%§$@ even low level libs and apps pull in that shit today. If freedesktop wouldn't be that sick joke it is, such behaviour wouldn't be.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Saturday 13 February 2010 14:07:05 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: I agree with the concept that people who don't want KDE dependancies, e.g. dbus, shouldn't use KDE apps. Therefore, I avoid amarok, kaffeine, kplayer, etc. What got me started in this thread was the fact that what had been a formerly-standalone media player (audacious), now pretty much demands dbus. dbus would be bundled in to my basic service, i.e. ICEWM. #except that dsbus is not a KDE application. Just grep to portage tree for apps that use dbus. The result might be a bit shocking. Btw, do you have a car? But certainly you drive stick. Unsyncronized. Oy! What are you trying to say? All my cars are stick. Down here in deepest darkest Africa you pay a premium for auto so no-one in their right mind buys them except old ladies and trendy hippy naffs. And we need a clutch to get the car out of the potholes that adorn the streets. The bikes are all crash boxes because all bikes are like that (except Vespas and Chinese scooters, but I don't have any of those). On the track the clutch is mostly pointless once you're moving. I highly recommend drivers to gain the skill of driving a vehicle crash-style without a clutch. Comes in useful sometimes. :-) the point was not stick but unsyncronized ;)
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Sunday 14 February 2010 13:02:48 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: I highly recommend drivers to gain the skill of driving a vehicle crash-style without a clutch. Comes in useful sometimes. :-) the point was not stick but unsyncronized ;) I know. I just felt like tossing sounding in that sounded awfully clever :-) -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Samstag 13 Februar 2010, Walter Dnes wrote: #except that dsbus is not a KDE application. Just grep to portage tree for apps that use dbus. The result might be a bit shocking. Btw, do you have a car? But certainly you drive stick. Unsyncronized. Because everything else is 'bloat'. And your tv has no way to find channels. You do it manually - with a screwdriver, I am sure. Now that was funny. I had a TV like that many many years ago. It was color but just barely. lol Dale :-) :-) P. S. I also drive a stick. I don't like the repair rates or costs on automatic transmissions.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On 13 Feb 2010, at 15:42, Dale wrote: ... Btw, do you have a car? But certainly you drive stick. Unsyncronized. Because everything else is 'bloat'. ... P. S. I also drive a stick. I don't like the repair rates or costs on automatic transmissions. Except your manual gearbox probably has a synchronised (synchromesh?) transmission. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_transmission#Unsynchronized_transmission Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On 13 Feb 2010, at 15:42, Dale wrote: ... Btw, do you have a car? But certainly you drive stick. Unsyncronized. Because everything else is 'bloat'. ... P. S. I also drive a stick. I don't like the repair rates or costs on automatic transmissions. Except your manual gearbox probably has a synchronised (synchromesh?) transmission. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_transmission#Unsynchronized_transmission Stroller. It may at that. I dunno. It is a little hard headed when it is cold outside tho. It takes a bit of effort to hit those gears just right so that they mesh together. So, it may be synced but it doesn't always act like it. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Saturday 13 February 2010 14:07:05 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: I agree with the concept that people who don't want KDE dependancies, e.g. dbus, shouldn't use KDE apps. Therefore, I avoid amarok, kaffeine, kplayer, etc. What got me started in this thread was the fact that what had been a formerly-standalone media player (audacious), now pretty much demands dbus. dbus would be bundled in to my basic service, i.e. ICEWM. #except that dsbus is not a KDE application. Just grep to portage tree for apps that use dbus. The result might be a bit shocking. Btw, do you have a car? But certainly you drive stick. Unsyncronized. Oy! What are you trying to say? All my cars are stick. Down here in deepest darkest Africa you pay a premium for auto so no-one in their right mind buys them except old ladies and trendy hippy naffs. And we need a clutch to get the car out of the potholes that adorn the streets. The bikes are all crash boxes because all bikes are like that (except Vespas and Chinese scooters, but I don't have any of those). On the track the clutch is mostly pointless once you're moving. I highly recommend drivers to gain the skill of driving a vehicle crash-style without a clutch. Comes in useful sometimes. :-) -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 02:37:53PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you are just a stupid ass. It is not slow. You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted). a) Nepomuk is not slow and does not hog resources b) dbusis not slow and does not hog resources c) hal is not slow and does not hog resources d) ... is not slow and does not hog resources etc, etc, etc. Throw in enough little stuff and it eventually adds up. We seem to be talking past each other. It's like the pay-TV channel you don't want being bundled in basic cable. They may claim that they only cost a dollar a month, and surely you can afford that. Throw in 100 such channels, and your cable bill gets ridiculous, and people start demanding a-la-carte. The same principle applies here. I agree with the concept that people who don't want KDE dependancies, e.g. dbus, shouldn't use KDE apps. Therefore, I avoid amarok, kaffeine, kplayer, etc. What got me started in this thread was the fact that what had been a formerly-standalone media player (audacious), now pretty much demands dbus. dbus would be bundled in to my basic service, i.e. ICEWM. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 02:37:53PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you are just a stupid ass. It is not slow. You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted). a) Nepomuk is not slow and does not hog resources b) dbusis not slow and does not hog resources c) hal is not slow and does not hog resources d) ... is not slow and does not hog resources etc, etc, etc. Throw in enough little stuff and it eventually adds up. We seem to be talking past each other. It's like the pay-TV channel you don't want being bundled in basic cable. They may claim that they only cost a dollar a month, and surely you can afford that. Throw in 100 such channels, and your cable bill gets ridiculous, and people start demanding a-la-carte. The same principle applies here. I agree with the concept that people who don't want KDE dependancies, e.g. dbus, shouldn't use KDE apps. Therefore, I avoid amarok, kaffeine, kplayer, etc. What got me started in this thread was the fact that what had been a formerly-standalone media player (audacious), now pretty much demands dbus. dbus would be bundled in to my basic service, i.e. ICEWM. I went into a Konsole, adjusted my fonts to just big enough I could even see them, typed in top and guess what, I couldn't even get dbus or hal to show up. Udev was way down at the very bottom and it shows it is sleeping at the moment. The list was showing 39 lines of running processes. Yep, udev was at 39. The others don't even make the top 40. Now those are a resource hog. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: On Feb 10, 2010, at 6:31 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: OK, after reading several articles from the given starting point, I now understand why semantic-desktop wastes so much cpu, memory, and storage (really, if you organize your data properly who cares about a file's relationship to an email?). because to 'organize it properly' you would need a huge directory tree plus symlinks plus explaining notes to even simulate a small token of the stuff 'semantic desktop' can do for you.. Haven't had a problem organizing my data in 25 years and currently run a 3 system cluster with ~8TB of data. The only benefit that the semantic desktop seems to deliver is to waste resources. Also didn't read anything even hinting at security awareness of the technology which is really scary (imagine an attack that get's access to the RDFs, those RDFs are in your home directory. If someone can read your home you are screwed anyway. it'd tell the attacker exactly which additional files to target). oh yes, reading stuff about emails tells him to read more emails. That is scary. But tagging files (say stock spreedsheets, bank records, financial bookmarks, tax records) with tags (say 'bank, money, finance') all in one place would simplify a targeted attack. and the filenames and the places where you keep them won't tell him the same? You just claimed you organize things just fine. When you organize things, it can be used against you. And since I don't use/like dolphin, I'll stick with my original opinion that the semantic-desktop should be totally disabled/uninstalled. and you can do that. Oh wow. That useflag only turns on soprano. Nothing else. Which means nothing. You are not forced to use that stuff. So just another database server wasting resources. if it is running. You are free to not start it at all. Not too bad as long as nepomuk and strigi are disabled. Now to find the network ports soprano uses to make sure they are blocked from leaving the machine... Yes, I know, one of the really scary goals of the semantic-desktop is to share RDFs, definitely don't want that. good thing you have to enable that explicitly... IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction too. Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. This technology does not have a good track record (invasive cpu, memory, disk usage) for very dubious benefits. I have not found any cost vs. benefits vs. risks articles. Just a bunch of we think this will be great if you just use it type articles that can't even explain how it would be great. zero cpu, almost zero memory and mayby 0.1% harddisk. Yeah, that is scary.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 01:31:26AM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction too. There are other desktops besides GNOME and KDE. Actually I prefer the ICEWM window manager. I was running a 1999 Dell 450mhz PIII with 128 megs of *SYSTEM* ram until the summer of 2007. Let's just say that GNOME and KDE were out of the question for me. On my current desktop, ICEWM flies. But I also have a netbook, and again GNOME and KDE are not usable. Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. Correction, is fat, bloated, and slow, must be bad. I wonder if Microsoft's anti-linux strategy is to have its agents infiltrate the linux developer community, and turn linux into bloatware. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Walter Dnes wrote: Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. Correction, is fat, bloated, and slow, must be bad. I wonder if Microsoft's anti-linux strategy is to have its agents infiltrate the linux developer community, and turn linux into bloatware. it is neither fat nor bloated nor slow. Have you really tried it? Waited until the first indexing run was complete? kppp needs more ram than nepomuk. ... and produces a higher load. 'Bloatware' is all you have to say. Yeah. It makes life of people easier and uses negligble ressources on hardware that was produced in the last 4 years. It really must be bad.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:50:54 Walter Dnes wrote: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 01:31:26AM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction too. There are other desktops besides GNOME and KDE. Actually I prefer the ICEWM window manager. I was running a 1999 Dell 450mhz PIII with 128 megs of *SYSTEM* ram until the summer of 2007. Let's just say that GNOME and KDE were out of the question for me. On my current desktop, ICEWM flies. But I also have a netbook, and again GNOME and KDE are not usable. Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. Correction, is fat, bloated, and slow, must be bad. I wonder if Microsoft's anti-linux strategy is to have its agents infiltrate the linux developer community, and turn linux into bloatware. You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you are just a stupid ass. It is not slow. You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted). Are you seriously just shooting your mouth off about something you know didly- squat about? -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:50:54 Walter Dnes wrote: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 01:31:26AM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction too. There are other desktops besides GNOME and KDE. Actually I prefer the ICEWM window manager. I was running a 1999 Dell 450mhz PIII with 128 megs of *SYSTEM* ram until the summer of 2007. Let's just say that GNOME and KDE were out of the question for me. On my current desktop, ICEWM flies. But I also have a netbook, and again GNOME and KDE are not usable. Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. Correction, is fat, bloated, and slow, must be bad. I wonder if Microsoft's anti-linux strategy is to have its agents infiltrate the linux developer community, and turn linux into bloatware. You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you are just a stupid ass. It is not slow. You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted). you can even tell nepomuk how much memory it is allowed to use ...
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:50:54 Walter Dnes wrote: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 01:31:26AM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction too. There are other desktops besides GNOME and KDE. Actually I prefer the ICEWM window manager. I was running a 1999 Dell 450mhz PIII with 128 megs of *SYSTEM* ram until the summer of 2007. Let's just say that GNOME and KDE were out of the question for me. On my current desktop, ICEWM flies. But I also have a netbook, and again GNOME and KDE are not usable. Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. Correction, is fat, bloated, and slow, must be bad. I wonder if Microsoft's anti-linux strategy is to have its agents infiltrate the linux developer community, and turn linux into bloatware. You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you are just a stupid ass. It is not slow. You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted). you can even tell nepomuk how much memory it is allowed to use ... Can you nice the thing too? That would work. I set emerge to 5 and I can't even tell that emerge is running most of the time. There may be times when I can but it is rare. I just don't get this thing that indexing is a resource hog. I notice updatedb running at night. I have 329Gbs of data and updatedb only takes a few minutes. How is that a resource hog? My machine is not as old as some but it is slow going by the new machines that are out now. It's a AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs of ram. I have had Linux on machines as slow as 133MHz but never felt the need to disable indexing. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Thursday 11 February 2010 16:32:02 Dale wrote: Can you nice the thing too? That would work. I set emerge to 5 and I can't even tell that emerge is running most of the time. There may be times when I can but it is rare. I just don't get this thing that indexing is a resource hog. I notice updatedb running at night. I have 329Gbs of data and updatedb only takes a few minutes. How is that a resource hog? My machine is not as old as some but it is slow going by the new machines that are out now. It's a AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs of ram. I have had Linux on machines as slow as 133MHz but never felt the need to disable indexing. No need for any of that. Walter is just being a prick, talking out of a hole in his arse with the some total of truth = 0 Apologies for the French. I cannot resist. Dimwits annoy me greatly. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:50:54 Walter Dnes wrote: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 01:31:26AM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction too. There are other desktops besides GNOME and KDE. Actually I prefer the ICEWM window manager. I was running a 1999 Dell 450mhz PIII with 128 megs of *SYSTEM* ram until the summer of 2007. Let's just say that GNOME and KDE were out of the question for me. On my current desktop, ICEWM flies. But I also have a netbook, and again GNOME and KDE are not usable. Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. Correction, is fat, bloated, and slow, must be bad. I wonder if Microsoft's anti-linux strategy is to have its agents infiltrate the linux developer community, and turn linux into bloatware. You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you are just a stupid ass. It is not slow. You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted). you can even tell nepomuk how much memory it is allowed to use ... Can you nice the thing too? That would work. I set emerge to 5 and I can't even tell that emerge is running most of the time. There may be times when I can but it is rare. I just don't get this thing that indexing is a resource hog. I notice updatedb running at night. I have 329Gbs of data and updatedb only takes a few minutes. How is that a resource hog? My machine is not as old as some but it is slow going by the new machines that are out now. It's a AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs of ram. I have had Linux on machines as slow as 133MHz but never felt the need to disable indexing. when updatedb runs your cache is shot afterwards. That is a known problems. Nepomuk is only noticable once: the first indexing run. After that it creates zero load.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Thursday 11 February 2010 16:32:02 Dale wrote: Can you nice the thing too? That would work. I set emerge to 5 and I can't even tell that emerge is running most of the time. There may be times when I can but it is rare. I just don't get this thing that indexing is a resource hog. I notice updatedb running at night. I have 329Gbs of data and updatedb only takes a few minutes. How is that a resource hog? My machine is not as old as some but it is slow going by the new machines that are out now. It's a AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs of ram. I have had Linux on machines as slow as 133MHz but never felt the need to disable indexing. No need for any of that. Walter is just being a prick, talking out of a hole in his arse with the some total of truth = 0 Apologies for the French. I cannot resist. Dimwits annoy me greatly. Maybe he is trying to run Linux on a Vic-20? I think it was a blazing 4MHz or something like that. Seriously tho, the slowest rig I had Linux on was 133MHz. It had some really old slow drives in it, something like 15MBs/sec, and I never saw the need to disable updatedb or other indexing software. It just doesn't use that much. Anything made in the last few years should be able to handle that with no problems. Heck, my 6 year old rig does fine. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
Am Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:18:42 + schrieb Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk: On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:03:15 -0600, Roy Wright wrote: IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). It's so mandatory it takes a whole mouse click to turn it off :( If you do not want a piece of software, why should you install it? Installing and not using it instead of not installing it at all, is the wrong way and (to my opinion) it is defintely not the Gentoo way. Well, I have drawn the conclusions and got rid of kmail and am on the verge of migrating the whole desktop. I loved kde-3.5, I seriously tried kde-4.*, but I could never befriend with it. And one point I detaste is that Social Semantic Desktop thing (as Nepomuk is characterized on its afore mentioned wikipedia page). For me it is just another instance of what Kant called selbstverschuldete Unmündigkeit (self-incurred immaturity). signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Christian Apeltauer wrote: Am Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:18:42 + schrieb Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk: On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:03:15 -0600, Roy Wright wrote: IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). It's so mandatory it takes a whole mouse click to turn it off :( If you do not want a piece of software, why should you install it? Installing and not using it instead of not installing it at all, is the wrong way and (to my opinion) it is defintely not the Gentoo way. Well, I have drawn the conclusions and got rid of kmail and am on the verge of migrating the whole desktop. I loved kde-3.5, I seriously tried kde-4.*, but I could never befriend with it. And one point I detaste is that Social Semantic Desktop thing (as Nepomuk is characterized on its afore mentioned wikipedia page). For me it is just another instance of what Kant called selbstverschuldete Unmündigkeit (self-incurred immaturity). sure. Be able to tag and quickly find information is immature. Question, when you have KDE installed and some app pulls in gconf or gvfs - do you throw the same temper tamtrum?
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:50:54 Walter Dnes wrote: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 01:31:26AM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction too. There are other desktops besides GNOME and KDE. Actually I prefer the ICEWM window manager. I was running a 1999 Dell 450mhz PIII with 128 megs of *SYSTEM* ram until the summer of 2007. Let's just say that GNOME and KDE were out of the question for me. On my current desktop, ICEWM flies. But I also have a netbook, and again GNOME and KDE are not usable. Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. Correction, is fat, bloated, and slow, must be bad. I wonder if Microsoft's anti-linux strategy is to have its agents infiltrate the linux developer community, and turn linux into bloatware. You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you are just a stupid ass. It is not slow. You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted). you can even tell nepomuk how much memory it is allowed to use ... Can you nice the thing too? That would work. I set emerge to 5 and I can't even tell that emerge is running most of the time. There may be times when I can but it is rare. I just don't get this thing that indexing is a resource hog. I notice updatedb running at night. I have 329Gbs of data and updatedb only takes a few minutes. How is that a resource hog? My machine is not as old as some but it is slow going by the new machines that are out now. It's a AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs of ram. I have had Linux on machines as slow as 133MHz but never felt the need to disable indexing. when updatedb runs your cache is shot afterwards. That is a known problems. Nepomuk is only noticable once: the first indexing run. After that it creates zero load. So cache is bad? Heck, my cache is almost always full anyway. Nothing new there. If it is not updatedb then it will be something else. Thing is, I can't tell any difference in my cache before, during or after. I do have 2Gbs of ram here so maybe I just can't see the difference. I guess I could always wait until 3:10AM and test this theory tho. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:50:54 Walter Dnes wrote: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 01:31:26AM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction too. There are other desktops besides GNOME and KDE. Actually I prefer the ICEWM window manager. I was running a 1999 Dell 450mhz PIII with 128 megs of *SYSTEM* ram until the summer of 2007. Let's just say that GNOME and KDE were out of the question for me. On my current desktop, ICEWM flies. But I also have a netbook, and again GNOME and KDE are not usable. Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. Correction, is fat, bloated, and slow, must be bad. I wonder if Microsoft's anti-linux strategy is to have its agents infiltrate the linux developer community, and turn linux into bloatware. You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you are just a stupid ass. It is not slow. You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted). you can even tell nepomuk how much memory it is allowed to use ... Can you nice the thing too? That would work. I set emerge to 5 and I can't even tell that emerge is running most of the time. There may be times when I can but it is rare. I just don't get this thing that indexing is a resource hog. I notice updatedb running at night. I have 329Gbs of data and updatedb only takes a few minutes. How is that a resource hog? My machine is not as old as some but it is slow going by the new machines that are out now. It's a AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs of ram. I have had Linux on machines as slow as 133MHz but never felt the need to disable indexing. when updatedb runs your cache is shot afterwards. That is a known problems. Nepomuk is only noticable once: the first indexing run. After that it creates zero load. So cache is bad? Heck, my cache is almost always full anyway. Nothing new there. If it is not updatedb then it will be something else. no, cahce is great. That is the problem. Updatedb replaces the cached files with stuff you probably don't care about. Which is bad.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:43:36 +0100, Christian Apeltauer wrote: If you do not want a piece of software, why should you install it? Installing and not using it instead of not installing it at all, is the wrong way and (to my opinion) it is defintely not the Gentoo way. Clearly it is not optional, otherwise the ebuild would support the existing semantic-desktop flag. If upstream have made this feature compulsory, disabling it is not the Gentoo way either. -- Neil Bothwick Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Dale wrote: chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 11 February 2010 13:50:54 Walter Dnes wrote: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 01:31:26AM +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction too. There are other desktops besides GNOME and KDE. Actually I prefer the ICEWM window manager. I was running a 1999 Dell 450mhz PIII with 128 megs of *SYSTEM* ram until the summer of 2007. Let's just say that GNOME and KDE were out of the question for me. On my current desktop, ICEWM flies. But I also have a netbook, and again GNOME and KDE are not usable. Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. Correction, is fat, bloated, and slow, must be bad. I wonder if Microsoft's anti-linux strategy is to have its agents infiltrate the linux developer community, and turn linux into bloatware. You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you are just a stupid ass. It is not slow. You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted). you can even tell nepomuk how much memory it is allowed to use ... Can you nice the thing too? That would work. I set emerge to 5 and I can't even tell that emerge is running most of the time. There may be times when I can but it is rare. I just don't get this thing that indexing is a resource hog. I notice updatedb running at night. I have 329Gbs of data and updatedb only takes a few minutes. How is that a resource hog? My machine is not as old as some but it is slow going by the new machines that are out now. It's a AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs of ram. I have had Linux on machines as slow as 133MHz but never felt the need to disable indexing. when updatedb runs your cache is shot afterwards. That is a known problems. Nepomuk is only noticable once: the first indexing run. After that it creates zero load. So cache is bad? Heck, my cache is almost always full anyway. Nothing new there. If it is not updatedb then it will be something else. no, cahce is great. That is the problem. Updatedb replaces the cached files with stuff you probably don't care about. Which is bad. I don't think I have ever seen my cache change when running updatedb. Maybe it is so small that it doesn't matter. After all, I only have over 300GBs worth of files on the drives and 2Gbs of ram. This makes me want to stay up tonight and test this theory. o_O Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Friday 12 February 2010 01:49:18 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Christian Apeltauer wrote: Am Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:18:42 + schrieb Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk: On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:03:15 -0600, Roy Wright wrote: IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). It's so mandatory it takes a whole mouse click to turn it off :( If you do not want a piece of software, why should you install it? Installing and not using it instead of not installing it at all, is the wrong way and (to my opinion) it is defintely not the Gentoo way. Well, I have drawn the conclusions and got rid of kmail and am on the verge of migrating the whole desktop. I loved kde-3.5, I seriously tried kde-4.*, but I could never befriend with it. And one point I detaste is that Social Semantic Desktop thing (as Nepomuk is characterized on its afore mentioned wikipedia page). For me it is just another instance of what Kant called selbstverschuldete Unmündigkeit (self-incurred immaturity). sure. Be able to tag and quickly find information is immature. Question, when you have KDE installed and some app pulls in gconf or gvfs - do you throw the same temper tamtrum? People by and large do not comprehend what KDE-4 is all about, and the naming convention actually reinforces this misconception. Folk think KDE-4 is the natural evolution of KDE-3.5 - more of the same just more of it and supposedly better. Nothing could be further from the truth. KDE-4 is nothing like KDE-3.5 and visual similarities are just that - superficial. kmail's appearance in 3.5 was good and in 4 it looks the same because there is no good reason to change the skin. Underlying that superficial layer you find something entirely new which bears no resemblance at all the the old one, and this has been confounding people since the first code commits. KDE-4 is built on an array of new technologies: Plasma, Akonadi, Nepomuk, Phonon, Solid, Strigi and more Those things encompass what KDE-4 is built to do, they are the reason for KDE-4's entire existence, it's raison d'etre. Without Plasma, it is just another desktop. Without Phonon, you have to use what came before together with it's problems. There is a reason why latest versions of KDE do not have magic switches to remove semantic desktop: SEMANTIC DESKTOP IS SUPPOSED TO BE THERE. IT IS THE ENTIRE REASON KDE4 EXISTS AT ALL. Complaining about it reveals only a deep fundamental understanding of what the software is supposed to do, so folk should stop trying to shoehorn it into a box that the devs deliberately built it to not fit into. To all those folk who do not like building a semantic desktop with kmail: You need to get over it. Seriously. There are other options. Or try building a browser without an html rendering engine for a vivid example of what you are attempting. Don't bother trying to justify why this is not a valid analogy to KDE4 - it is a valid analogy and KDE really is what I described above. It's that way because the devs who built it say so. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
[gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
Hello list, when I synced my portage tree today, I saw that kmail-4.4.0 needs kdelibs compiled with USE=semantic-desktop and cannot be told to not use it. But I do not like the idea of semantic desktop and I will not install it. But I really like kmail as my mail client, so I give it a last chance: Is it possible to compile kmail without support for semantic desktop (by writing my own ebuild) or will the code break without it? Thanks for your hints Christian signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Christian Apeltauer wrote: Hello list, when I synced my portage tree today, I saw that kmail-4.4.0 needs kdelibs compiled with USE=semantic-desktop and cannot be told to not use it. But I do not like the idea of semantic desktop and I will not install it. you don't even now what that is. Right? You just don't use 'it' and you are fine. Btw, I am sure you already have it installed with soprano.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
Am Mittwoch, 10. Februar 2010 schrieb Christian Apeltauer: Hello list, when I synced my portage tree today, I saw that kmail-4.4.0 needs kdelibs compiled with USE=semantic-desktop and cannot be told to not use it. But I do not like the idea of semantic desktop and I will not install it. I've had the same issue yesterday, but for another reason. I didn't want to install yet another server backend, whose package is 70MB in size. I've tried, but in the end, something needed semantic-desktop to be compulsory. So I gave up and waited the half hour to download that bloody virtuoso. :-/ -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' Why did the tachyon cross the road? Because it was on the other side. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Feb 10, 2010, at 8:34 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Christian Apeltauer wrote: Hello list, when I synced my portage tree today, I saw that kmail-4.4.0 needs kdelibs compiled with USE=semantic-desktop and cannot be told to not use it. But I do not like the idea of semantic desktop and I will not install it. you don't even now what that is. Right? You just don't use 'it' and you are fine. Btw, I am sure you already have it installed with soprano. My understanding is the semantic-desktop is just the latest incarnation of kde's clone of google desktop search which just wastes CPU, memory, and disk space. Personally I don't see the need for this technology as I'm perfectly happy waiting a few seconds on find every few months.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: On Feb 10, 2010, at 8:34 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Christian Apeltauer wrote: Hello list, when I synced my portage tree today, I saw that kmail-4.4.0 needs kdelibs compiled with USE=semantic-desktop and cannot be told to not use it. But I do not like the idea of semantic desktop and I will not install it. you don't even now what that is. Right? You just don't use 'it' and you are fine. Btw, I am sure you already have it installed with soprano. My understanding is the semantic-desktop is just the latest incarnation of kde's clone of google desktop search which just wastes CPU, memory, and disk space. Personally I don't see the need for this technology as I'm perfectly happy waiting a few seconds on find every few months. your understanding is wrong. Completely wrong. Seriously it hurts. start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEPOMUK_(framework) and then proceed with the links. google-desktop is something completley different (and something that can be replaced with find, locate and grep).
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Feb 10, 2010, at 5:04 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: On Feb 10, 2010, at 8:34 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Christian Apeltauer wrote: Hello list, when I synced my portage tree today, I saw that kmail-4.4.0 needs kdelibs compiled with USE=semantic-desktop and cannot be told to not use it. But I do not like the idea of semantic desktop and I will not install it. you don't even now what that is. Right? You just don't use 'it' and you are fine. Btw, I am sure you already have it installed with soprano. My understanding is the semantic-desktop is just the latest incarnation of kde's clone of google desktop search which just wastes CPU, memory, and disk space. Personally I don't see the need for this technology as I'm perfectly happy waiting a few seconds on find every few months. your understanding is wrong. Completely wrong. Seriously it hurts. start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEPOMUK_(framework) and then proceed with the links. google-desktop is something completley different (and something that can be replaced with find, locate and grep). OK, after reading several articles from the given starting point, I now understand why semantic-desktop wastes so much cpu, memory, and storage (really, if you organize your data properly who cares about a file's relationship to an email?). Also didn't read anything even hinting at security awareness of the technology which is really scary (imagine an attack that get's access to the RDFs, it'd tell the attacker exactly which additional files to target). And since I don't use/like dolphin, I'll stick with my original opinion that the semantic-desktop should be totally disabled/uninstalled. IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years).
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: On Feb 10, 2010, at 5:04 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: On Feb 10, 2010, at 8:34 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Christian Apeltauer wrote: Hello list, when I synced my portage tree today, I saw that kmail-4.4.0 needs kdelibs compiled with USE=semantic-desktop and cannot be told to not use it. But I do not like the idea of semantic desktop and I will not install it. you don't even now what that is. Right? You just don't use 'it' and you are fine. Btw, I am sure you already have it installed with soprano. My understanding is the semantic-desktop is just the latest incarnation of kde's clone of google desktop search which just wastes CPU, memory, and disk space. Personally I don't see the need for this technology as I'm perfectly happy waiting a few seconds on find every few months. your understanding is wrong. Completely wrong. Seriously it hurts. start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEPOMUK_(framework) and then proceed with the links. google-desktop is something completley different (and something that can be replaced with find, locate and grep). OK, after reading several articles from the given starting point, I now understand why semantic-desktop wastes so much cpu, memory, and storage (really, if you organize your data properly who cares about a file's relationship to an email?). because to 'organize it properly' you would need a huge directory tree plus symlinks plus explaining notes to even simulate a small token of the stuff 'semantic desktop' can do for you.. Also didn't read anything even hinting at security awareness of the technology which is really scary (imagine an attack that get's access to the RDFs, those RDFs are in your home directory. If someone can read your home you are screwed anyway. it'd tell the attacker exactly which additional files to target). oh yes, reading stuff about emails tells him to read more emails. That is scary. And since I don't use/like dolphin, I'll stick with my original opinion that the semantic-desktop should be totally disabled/uninstalled. and you can do that. Oh wow. That useflag only turns on soprano. Nothing else. Which means nothing. You are not forced to use that stuff. IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction too. Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Feb 10, 2010, at 6:31 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Roy Wright wrote: OK, after reading several articles from the given starting point, I now understand why semantic-desktop wastes so much cpu, memory, and storage (really, if you organize your data properly who cares about a file's relationship to an email?). because to 'organize it properly' you would need a huge directory tree plus symlinks plus explaining notes to even simulate a small token of the stuff 'semantic desktop' can do for you.. Haven't had a problem organizing my data in 25 years and currently run a 3 system cluster with ~8TB of data. The only benefit that the semantic desktop seems to deliver is to waste resources. Also didn't read anything even hinting at security awareness of the technology which is really scary (imagine an attack that get's access to the RDFs, those RDFs are in your home directory. If someone can read your home you are screwed anyway. it'd tell the attacker exactly which additional files to target). oh yes, reading stuff about emails tells him to read more emails. That is scary. But tagging files (say stock spreedsheets, bank records, financial bookmarks, tax records) with tags (say 'bank, money, finance') all in one place would simplify a targeted attack. And since I don't use/like dolphin, I'll stick with my original opinion that the semantic-desktop should be totally disabled/uninstalled. and you can do that. Oh wow. That useflag only turns on soprano. Nothing else. Which means nothing. You are not forced to use that stuff. So just another database server wasting resources. Not too bad as long as nepomuk and strigi are disabled. Now to find the network ports soprano uses to make sure they are blocked from leaving the machine... Yes, I know, one of the really scary goals of the semantic-desktop is to share RDFs, definitely don't want that. IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). yeah good luck with that. Because gnome is moving in that direction too. Seriously guys, you start sounding like luddites. Is new, must be bad. This technology does not have a good track record (invasive cpu, memory, disk usage) for very dubious benefits. I have not found any cost vs. benefits vs. risks articles. Just a bunch of we think this will be great if you just use it type articles that can't even explain how it would be great.
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:03:15 -0600, Roy Wright wrote: IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years). It's so mandatory it takes a whole mouse click to turn it off :( -- Neil Bothwick Old hitchhikers never die-they just throw in the towel. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On 11 Feb 2010, at 01:14, Roy Wright wrote: ... because to 'organize it properly' you would need a huge directory tree plus symlinks plus explaining notes to even simulate a small token of the stuff 'semantic desktop' can do for you.. Haven't had a problem organizing my data in 25 years ... The only benefit that the semantic desktop seems to deliver is to waste resources. I resisted in my last email the temptation to mention that some of these complaints about semantic desktop sound like my father talking. But there you are ... Also didn't read anything even hinting at security awareness of the technology which is really scary (imagine an attack that get's access to the RDFs, those RDFs are in your home directory. If someone can read your home you are screwed anyway. it'd tell the attacker exactly which additional files to target). oh yes, reading stuff about emails tells him to read more emails. That is scary. But tagging files (say stock spreedsheets, bank records, financial bookmarks, tax records) with tags (say 'bank, money, finance') all in one place would simplify a targeted attack. In the case of an attack ALL of your data will be stealthily copied so that the attacker will go over it later. and you can do that. Oh wow. That useflag only turns on soprano. Nothing else. Which means nothing. You are not forced to use that stuff. So just another database server wasting resources. ... Do you also complain about the spellchecker wasting resources, as it parses the words you type? In my father's day they were taught spelling rigidly at school like parrots, so they had no need for this new-fangled nonsense. In my father's day they never made spelling mistakes (yeah, right!). This technology does not have a good track record (invasive cpu, memory, disk usage) for very dubious benefits. I have not found any cost vs. benefits vs. risks articles. Just a bunch of we think this will be great if you just use it type articles that can't even explain how it would be great. My father can find all his banking records for the last 25 years because he keeps them in a metal filing cabinet. He has to open the correct draw, find the right file, leaf slowly through his bank statements in order to find the right one. However well you claim to have your files organised, I'll bet you waste time opening the wrong drawer (clicking on the wrong folder) once in a while. I, on the other hand, can find my statements by hitting ctrl-space, typing amex and selecting the folder which comes up in the search results. That folder is probably somewhere like /Documents/Personal/ Financial/Statements/Amex, but I don't need to know that (it could be in Documents/Bank/ or elsewhere) nor do I need to navigate through several folders looking for it. I just type what I'm looking for and it's there. Stroller.
