Re: getting an old distro to install from the files
If you want to get a bit more nostalgic... I am pretty confident I still have an original set of S.u.S.E. 5.x (x may be 4) CDs and could burn copies of that. You might be struggling getting modern hardware going though, as USB probably hadn't yet been invented at the time, Bluetooth didn't exist, etc. I might also have a 9.3 DVD somewhere, not quite sure though. Email me off list if you are interested in any of this, and I'll have a look. Kind regards, Helmut. -- ++ | Helmut Walle | | helmut.wa...@gmail.com | | +64-3-388 39 54| ++ On Sat, 17 Jul 2010, Kevin and Litesha Maher wrote: Evening, all If I have all the files for a distro, how do I install that distro if the files are on a partition, and not a bootable CD? To explain the situation... way back in 2002 I was running SuSE 8.2 that a mate of mine had bought, and quite liked it. I've managed to find it online and downloaded it (3.2 GB worth), and would like to install it on my computer for old time's sake but don't know how to install it with just the files. I've installed a few versions of Linux enough times to know what options to choose, how to partition the drive, etc, but that's always been from an iso file burnt onto a CD. The machine I'll put it onto is an IBM ThinkCentre with adequate specs for running it (can run OpenSuse 10.2), so hardware's not an issue - I just want to know how do I turn the key in the ignition so to speak? I'm familiar with Windows (apologies if that word offends anyone) so is there some equivalent of setup.exe? Can I copy some of the files onto a CD (then hopefully be able to tell it where to find the rest)? If so, which ones? Or is it possible to use one of the apps on the something like the ultimate boot cd or tomsrtbt? TIA Kevin Maher
getting an old distro to install from the files
Evening, all If I have all the files for a distro, how do I install that distro if the files are on a partition, and not a bootable CD? To explain the situation... way back in 2002 I was running SuSE 8.2 that a mate of mine had bought, and quite liked it. I've managed to find it online and downloaded it (3.2 GB worth), and would like to install it on my computer for old time's sake but don't know how to install it with just the files. I've installed a few versions of Linux enough times to know what options to choose, how to partition the drive, etc, but that's always been from an iso file burnt onto a CD. The machine I'll put it onto is an IBM ThinkCentre with adequate specs for running it (can run OpenSuse 10.2), so hardware's not an issue - I just want to know how do I turn the key in the ignition so to speak? I'm familiar with Windows (apologies if that word offends anyone) so is there some equivalent of setup.exe? Can I copy some of the files onto a CD (then hopefully be able to tell it where to find the rest)? If so, which ones? Or is it possible to use one of the apps on the something like the ultimate boot cd or tomsrtbt? TIA Kevin Maher
Re: getting an old distro to install from the files
On Sat 17 Jul 2010 23:56:48 NZST +1200, Kevin and Litesha Maher wrote: If I have all the files for a distro, how do I install that distro if the files are on a partition, and not a bootable CD? To explain the situation... way back in 2002 I was running SuSE 8.2 that a mate of mine had bought, and quite liked it. I've managed to find it online and downloaded it (3.2 GB worth), and would like to install it on my computer for old time's sake but don't know how to install it with just the files. I've installed a few versions of Linux enough times to know what options to choose, how to partition the drive, etc, but that's always been from an iso file burnt onto a CD. You'll probably save yourself some time if you just copy the ISO instead. You can take a copy of my disks (1 DVD or 5 CDs), and you can have a copy of the updates too. Your next option is to boot the network install ISO, aaand point the installer at your copy of the installation files. There were always multiple options for where the installation files could be located, CD/DVD was obviously one of them, but ISO file on local disk, http, ftp, and directory on local disk all exist. I don't remember whether SuSE 8.2 offered all of them, and which of those offered actually worked. You will need a copy of the net install ISO (prob about 40-50MB) and burn that to a CD. You can probably use any one of approximately the same age, like 8.1 or 9.0, but don't quote me on that. It is esssential that your copy of the installation files has the same directory layout as their installation CD/DVD has. Before you copy all 5 CDs on top of each other I suggest you start with the first only, then install missing packages once your system is up and running. In theory you should be able to install a system from the files you have, but you may have to work out exactly how the installer works and then assemble an environment in which that will start up and continue. Or maybe the easiest would be to create a bootable CD/DVD from the files you have, i.e. massage them back into an ISO. You'll need to work out the correct opttions for mkisofs to do that, but assuming you have a complete and accurate copy of all the files, this method will work. to know how do I turn the key in the ignition so to speak? I'm familiar with Windows (apologies if that word offends anyone) so is there some equivalent of setup.exe? I am not sure that you can install doze by running a setup.exe which happens to be on a CD. What do you have already running at the time you start setup? Nothing? No doulbe clicking then. A full doze? WHy install it again then? It doesn't make sense in doze or linux. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Thu 03 Jun 2010 16:03:38 NZST +1200, Nick Rout wrote: physical access means root access! Only if you can boot from CD/USB stick (which any lab admin has disabled), or if you manage to disassemble the computer while the lab admin looks at you holding his baseball bat. Good luck. On the list of reasons why you couldn't possibly afford a root password on a lab computer is pretty darn silly, which haven't been mentioned: * The admin might have a very good reason to need or want it. * If your root password can be brute-forced during a lab class, you sure didn't deserve any better anyway. * It's a research institution, so playing with the security system where the potential damage is marginal is part of the game. I know admins who just shrug their shoulders for this very reason, as long as no actual damage takes place. * Did someone go there to get a degree, or to be kicked off campus by the acceptable use policy? But the most annoying thing about sudo is the crowd of Buntunistas(TM) who think everyone absolutely has to use it everytime everywhere just because it's the default for their favourite distro, when benefits are at best arguable and at worst a security problem. It's a tool. It gets used when and if it gives a useful return. Just like with any other tool. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Thu 03 Jun 2010 10:04:25 NZST +1200, aidal...@no8wireless.co.nz wrote: By the way, it's only five extra keystrokes to prefix a command with sudo . And exactly why do you think commands are called mv, rm, and ls? ;-) Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Solor Vox solor...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 June 2010 10:31, Jim Cheetham j...@gonzul.net wrote: If you are the owner of the computer in question and you are competant, there is no reason at all not to use root all the time. Just set your uid to 0 and be done with it. I'm as serious with that comment as I am with writing passwords down, i.e. very serious. This is both horrible and dangerous advice. First, we are human and I Not really. It's an extreme position and I put the word competent in quotes. Personally, I don't run as UID 0 (although on my main workstation only I do permit sudo with no password for my user). I'm not going to bother with a point-by-point discussion of your comments, they're all sufficiently correct. I just don't agree that they are situations you need to guard against too strongly on a workstation where you should be able to rebuild from an ISO with minimal impact at short notice. That sounds a little bit like moving the goalposts for the discussion, but it's part of the definition of competent ... :-) However, if you are *not* the owner (i.e. in any business context) then sudo provides a very valuable audit log experience. You have 5 Sure, sudo helps with logs if the admins use it. Well, don't give them the choice. I'm talking about production systems in a professional services model (ITIL etc), not just a bunch of guys logging on to a webserver somewhere to hack on their blogs. In these environments, audit is far more important than giving the admin a pleasant work environment .. -jim
Re: Is there such a distro?
Peter Glassenbury (CSSE) wrote: Sorry not even at a university lab... If someone wants to brute force our root account, they obviously have not enough work to do. Our logging should find the attempts... Like Volker, I have yet to be convinced of the point of typing sudo in front of all the commands I want to run as root. When it becomes reflex, you are going to make the same mistakes as if you login as root. True, because the attack would have to be carried out manually, so you could just pull out the crow bar and stand outside the lab when it happens, not to mention that it would take forever to reach, say, 100 attempts, which would hardly make a dent (so to speak). There are pros and cons of either choice. For me, it's pointless to have a root password, because I can never remember what it is, and I usually only want to execute one command as root at a time, anyway. But that's just my preference. I can imagine that Pete boots the lab machines into single-user mode, for which he needs the root password, to diagnose problems. Even if that was disabled, there could still only be one password for admins: the BIOS password (for booting from a CD, for example). By the way, it's only five extra keystrokes to prefix a command with sudo . --Aidan signature.asc Description: PGP signature Part 3 Description: micalg/pgp-sha1
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 10:04 AM, aidal...@no8wireless.co.nz wrote: Peter Glassenbury (CSSE) wrote: Sorry not even at a university lab... If someone wants to brute force our root account, they obviously have not enough work to do. Our logging should find the attempts... Like Volker, I have yet to be convinced of the point of typing sudo in front of all the commands I want to run as root. When it becomes reflex, you are going to make the same mistakes as if you login as root. True, because the attack would have to be carried out manually, so you could just pull out the crow bar and stand outside the lab when it happens, not to mention that it would take forever to reach, say, 100 attempts, which would hardly make a dent (so to speak). There are pros and cons of either choice. For me, it's pointless to have a root password, because I can never remember what it is, and I usually only want to execute one command as root at a time, anyway. But that's just my preference. I can imagine that Pete boots the lab machines into single-user mode, for which he needs the root password, to diagnose problems. Even if that was disabled, there could still only be one password for admins: the BIOS password (for booting from a CD, for example). physical access means root access!
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Tue 01 Jun 2010 12:39:09 NZST +1200, Hadley Rich wrote: Even more useful is sudo sux sux sux: Command not found. sux was deprecated some while ago. It's now integrated in su, and runs xauth somehow via pam. A ~/.xauth... is created. It Just Works(TM). which gives root the ability to open gui tools. I always take that for granted. (Assuming local user login, not ssh.) `gksu gedit` gksu gksu: Command not found. Ok so can you make do without a root password, but I still don't see why I have to and remain not to be interested. Each to their own. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Mon, 31 May 2010 12:27:38 you wrote: On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Ryan McCoskrie ryan.mccosk...@gmail.com wrote: Okay there have been a few misunderstandings about what I meant in my original post on this thread. After some thinking I believe that I can clarify myself properly On Sat, 29 May 2010 13:02:30 you wrote: Are there any desktop centered distros whose primary aim is to have as few surprises as possible for people who are already accustomed to Linux? By accustomed to Linux I mean that this user is more comfortable with Linux than any other system but not necessarily a power user. I just want a very generic distro. By generic I don't just mean desktop centered with no paradigm shifting technologies. I mean a system that aims to have as few original contributions as possible what do you mean as few original contributions as possible - do you mean you want a distro without any special tools that are designed just for that distro, by the distro maker? AFAIK that is near impossible without simply repackaging something else (such as the case with CentOS and Redhat). But yeah as few non-universal features as possible and absolutely nothing set up in a unique or near unique way. I suppose the real reason I want a system like what I am trying to describe is so that we can point and say Well there is no standard Linux but that one works exactly how any junior admin would expect. If so, ubuntu won't do you as they innovate quite a bit, as does fedora, as does suse. That comes of having a bunch of paid developers[1] sitting there developing, innovating and differentiating their distros. And at times their developments get taken up by other distros. eg REDHAT package manager is used by a lot of distros besides Redhat, upstart was developed by Canonical but is now also used by Fedora and others. If you want a very generic system with no distro centered addons then you perhaps don't want a distro at all, because they all try to differentiate themselves in some way with some new 'feature'. If I still misunderstood what you are after then please explain again. and have a complete out-of-the-box set of programs (GUI and CLI) that one would expect out of a Linux based system. P.S: I know that you can set a root password on Ubuntu but I seam to remember other things being dropped because they're of no use to granny. You don't need a root password. Ubuntu proves that. You do if you have a neurotic need to configure every detail but lack the time and bandwidth for Gentoo/Slackware/LFS. P.P.S: We're lucky here but there is still need for DVD based systems for those without broadband. I was running Fedora without internet any connection at all from mid 2006 to the start of 2008. [1] OK so fedora's paid developers really work for redhat.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Ryan McCoskrie ryan.mccosk...@gmail.com wrote: You do if you have a neurotic need to configure every detail but lack the time and bandwidth for Gentoo/Slackware/LFS. well give it a root password then. What the hell has bandwidth to do with configuration?
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Tue, 01 Jun 2010 20:27:07 you wrote: On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Ryan McCoskrie ryan.mccosk...@gmail.com wrote: You do if you have a neurotic need to configure every detail but lack the time and bandwidth for Gentoo/Slackware/LFS. well give it a root password then. What the hell has bandwidth to do with configuration? Those are the ones most famously in need of heavy configuration to make them usable on a day to day basis and LFS and Gentoo both need to be downloaded bit by bit while they are installed as opposed to acquired from a computer magazine.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:47 PM, Ryan McCoskrie ryan.mccosk...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 01 Jun 2010 20:27:07 you wrote: On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Ryan McCoskrie ryan.mccosk...@gmail.com wrote: You do if you have a neurotic need to configure every detail but lack the time and bandwidth for Gentoo/Slackware/LFS. well give it a root password then. What the hell has bandwidth to do with configuration? Those are the ones most famously in need of heavy configuration to make them usable on a day to day basis and LFS and Gentoo both need to be downloaded bit by bit while they are installed as opposed to acquired from a computer magazine. The Edgeware Community Centre has a machine with many linux distros on it, you can write a cd. But like any operating system you will constantly upgrading. Things are fixed. They require updating. Security updates. Program improvements. Even a week after release of any new distro version there will be updates.
Re: Is there such a distro?
Volker Kuhlmann wrote: Ok so can you make do without a root password, but I still don't see why I have to and remain not to be interested. Each to their own. I think you really want to disable root login (entirely) for, say, a university computer-lab. Anyone could switch to a virtual console and anonymously brute-force the root account. For personal systems, as you said, each to their own. Any system administrators care to start a cool-flame war[1]? ;-) --Aidan 1 A flame war without third-degree burns. signature.asc Description: PGP signature signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Tue, 2010-06-01 at 20:47 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: [snip] You know Ryan, I still haven't got a clue what you're actually wanting! TBH, any linux, freebsd, Solaris, HP-UX, etc, etc, etc - they all provide a platform for you to run your applications upon. They all talk to each other in the same manner and are built on the same philosophy. Sure I'm generalising, but the differences are trivial. It's a part of the learning process to either embrace them or to learn to use a subset of them that work exactly the same on most platforms. The only real differences are the sysadmin toolkits, and if you're that way inclined, then you need to know those trivialities. Cheers, Steve. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Tue, 2010-06-01 at 21:20 +1200, Aidan Gauland wrote: Volker Kuhlmann wrote: Ok so can you make do without a root password, but I still don't see why I have to and remain not to be interested. Each to their own. I think you really want to disable root login (entirely) for, say, a university computer-lab. Anyone could switch to a virtual console and anonymously brute-force the root account. For personal systems, as you said, each to their own. Any system administrators care to start a cool-flame war[1]? ;-) --Aidan 1 A flame war without third-degree burns. I'd go further: read-only systems, bring your own usb stick/nfs mounts. Run it like a kiosk. Log out, reset. Steve. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Is there such a distro?
On 01/06/10 21:20, Aidan Gauland wrote: Volker Kuhlmann wrote: Ok so can you make do without a root password, but I still don't see why I have to and remain not to be interested. Each to their own. I think you really want to disable root login (entirely) for, say, a university computer-lab. Anyone could switch to a virtual console and anonymously brute-force the root account. Sorry not even at a university lab... If someone wants to brute force our root account, they obviously have not enough work to do. Our logging should find the attempts... Like Volker, I have yet to be convinced of the point of typing sudo in front of all the commands I want to run as root. When it becomes reflex, you are going to make the same mistakes as if you login as root. Pete -- --- Peter Glassenbury Computer Science department p...@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz University of Canterbury +64 3 3642987 ext 7762 New Zealand
Re: Is there such a distro?
Like Volker, I have yet to be convinced of the point of typing sudo in front of all the commands I want to run as root. When it becomes reflex, you are going to make the same mistakes as if you login as root. True true. Still, I like not having a root password. Means I don't have to change it after someone has had a one-off need for admin rights. Yes, I know I should be changing it frequently anyway. sudo su gives me root when I have lots to do.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Peter Glassenbury (CSSE) peter.glassenb...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote: Like Volker, I have yet to be convinced of the point of typing sudo in front of all the commands I want to run as root. When it becomes reflex, you are going to make the same mistakes as if you login as root. If you are the owner of the computer in question and you are competant, there is no reason at all not to use root all the time. Just set your uid to 0 and be done with it. I'm as serious with that comment as I am with writing passwords down, i.e. very serious. However, if you are *not* the owner (i.e. in any business context) then sudo provides a very valuable audit log experience. You have 5 admins -- which one was it that logged on as root and broke your production system? With sudo, it is much easier to track back on problems. You can use sudo to get a root shell, rather than restrict it to individual commands, if you want the flexibility. -jim
Re: Is there such a distro?
On 2 June 2010 10:31, Jim Cheetham j...@gonzul.net wrote: If you are the owner of the computer in question and you are competant, there is no reason at all not to use root all the time. Just set your uid to 0 and be done with it. I'm as serious with that comment as I am with writing passwords down, i.e. very serious. This is both horrible and dangerous advice. First, we are human and I don't care how competent you are, people make mistakes. Running as a normal user the impact of mistakes are much less. Running as root, a mistake could mean re-install from backups. Second, even if you are on top of what you do, a run away process becomes much more dangerous to the system. The reserve free space (usually 5%) that is there in case of a too full disk doesn't work. Many applications are buggy and depend on user level access to protect the system. (wireshark/and the like) Do you really trust flash/firefox not to do bad things as root? Running as root also has direct access to memory and can kill/modify memory of other processes. However, if you are *not* the owner (i.e. in any business context) then sudo provides a very valuable audit log experience. You have 5 admins -- which one was it that logged on as root and broke your production system? With sudo, it is much easier to track back on problems. You can use sudo to get a root shell, rather than restrict it to individual commands, if you want the flexibility. -jim Sure, sudo helps with logs if the admins use it. I use a configuration management systems to ensure things are kept in check. Typically I find that my admins would use it when doing simple things. (vim/restarting services) But if they need to do a lot of work, sudo su - is used. With a remote root user login it could be any one of the admins. With sudo, the admin user logs in with their account and then runs sudo. So you get some ideas. =) Sudo also allows you to give fine-grained acess controls intead of full root. Allowing junor admins to do x,y,z only is a good thing. (tm) sV
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Wed, 2010-06-02 at 08:31 +1000, Jim Cheetham wrote: On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Peter Glassenbury (CSSE) peter.glassenb...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote: Like Volker, I have yet to be convinced of the point of typing sudo in front of all the commands I want to run as root. When it becomes reflex, you are going to make the same mistakes as if you login as root. If you are the owner of the computer in question and you are competant, there is no reason at all not to use root all the time. Just set your uid to 0 and be done with it. I'm as serious with that comment as I am with writing passwords down, i.e. very serious. However, if you are *not* the owner (i.e. in any business context) then sudo provides a very valuable audit log experience. You have 5 admins -- which one was it that logged on as root and broke your production system? With sudo, it is much easier to track back on problems. You can use sudo to get a root shell, rather than restrict it to individual commands, if you want the flexibility. -jim I am in absolute agreement with both of these statements (although I expect you're waiting for the flame war as well Jim), until it comes to directly accessing remote systems as root - even if it is your server. Having to guess which user account to ssh into ( there are plenty of account name popularity lists around to suggest the ones *not* to use ), as well as the password massively increases security. Add a fail2ban / denyhosts and it'll take a pretty serious distributed attack to succeed. Personally, I add a vpn to the mix as well, and only use raw ssh in an emergency from specific IP addresses. That way they have to find my treehouse in Borneo before going for my servers. ( Oh what a giveaway! ) But in a shared admin environment, the sudo's audit trail gets rid of all those sloping shoulders... and we all make mistakes after all! My $0.02, Steve -- Steve Holdoway st...@greengecko.co.nz http://www.greengecko.co.nz MSN: st...@greengecko.co.nz Skype: sholdowa smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Ryan McCoskrie ryan.mccosk...@gmail.com wrote: By generic I don't just mean desktop centered with no paradigm shifting technologies. I mean a system that aims to have as few original contributions as possible and have a complete out-of-the-box set of programs (GUI and CLI) that one would expect out of a Linux based system. I think you're really looking for the most old-fashioned distro :-) For example, you probably want init scripts in /etc/rc* ... which as many distros as possible are leaving behind ... Debian is the best-managed old-fashioned system, but they have package guidelines that mean the installed packages often do not match the upstream author's original intentions; but you didn't explicitly say you wanted to be upstream-compliant. You might enjoy Gobo -- I'm really not sure about the out-of-the-box experience, but the ability to bring in anything upstream and run it with the original author's intended environment is pretty much unparalleled -- there has to be a single kernel, but you can use different libc for different programs if you want, easily. -jim
Re: Is there such a distro?
On 31 May 2010 18:54, Jim Cheetham j...@gonzul.net wrote: I think you're really looking for the most old-fashioned distro :-) The other day I discovered that I still have a Yggdrasil Fall '95 CD. I was going to chuck it out but a powerful sense of premonition and the desire to keep a keepsake stopped me . I'm pretty sure I can still lay my hand on it. I believe it was the first ever LiveCD for linux. You may have it if your want it. -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Mon 31 May 2010 12:27:38 NZST +1200, Nick Rout wrote: You don't need a root password. Ubuntu proves that. No it doesn't. It only proves that granny doesn't need to do root operation. And it's the very first thing I always fix on those systems, as I refuse to be forced to prefix everything I do with sudo. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Mon, 2010-05-31 at 20:31 +1200, Volker Kuhlmann wrote: And it's the very first thing I always fix on those systems, as I refuse to be forced to prefix everything I do with sudo. People that don't understand sudo often say these sorts of things. `man sudo` shows that you can use `sudo -i` or `sudo -s` hads -- http://nicegear.co.nz New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier
Re: Is there such a distro?
On 31 May 2010 20:31, Volker Kuhlmann list0...@paradise.net.nz wrote: And it's the very first thing I always fix on those systems, as I refuse to be forced to prefix everything I do with sudo. $ sudo su - # =) sV
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Mon 31 May 2010 20:56:00 NZST +1200, Hadley Rich wrote: `man sudo` shows that you can use `sudo -i` or `sudo -s` Yes, useful - thanks! Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Mon, 2010-05-31 at 20:58 +1200, Solor Vox wrote: On 31 May 2010 20:31, Volker Kuhlmann list0...@paradise.net.nz wrote: And it's the very first thing I always fix on those systems, as I refuse to be forced to prefix everything I do with sudo. $ sudo su - # =) sV Even though you lose the accountability of the sudo log, it still does add extra protection of not being to remotely log in as root, and there's no password, no certificate to enable it if/when you get there. Yes, I know there are other ways of doing it. All have their pros and cons... and I suppose sudo hasn't been tested by the hackers yet. After all, DNS was secure as until that happened (: I consider remote access available only as joe.bloggs, followed by sudo to be far safer than being able to ssh in as root. But then risk is a very subjective thing. Steve smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Is there such a distro?
Steve Holdoway wrote: Even though you lose the accountability of the sudo log, it still does add extra protection of not being to remotely log in as root, and there's no password, no certificate to enable it if/when you get there. Yes, I know there are other ways of doing it. All have their pros and cons... and I suppose sudo hasn't been tested by the hackers yet. After all, DNS was secure as until that happened (: I consider remote access available only as joe.bloggs, followed by sudo to be far safer than being able to ssh in as root. But then risk is a very subjective thing. Don't forget user toor! OK, this is really a BSD thing. :P --Aidan signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Mon, 2010-05-31 at 22:05 +1200, Aidan Gauland wrote: Steve Holdoway wrote: Don't forget user toor! OK, this is really a BSD thing. :P Ah, the ugly viking, as an Irish cow-orker of mine used to call him (: Steve smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Is there such a distro?
On 31 May 2010 21:44, Steve Holdoway st...@greengecko.co.nz wrote: Even though you lose the accountability of the sudo log, it still does add extra protection of not being to remotely log in as root, and there's no password, no certificate to enable it if/when you get there. If all you're looking to do is prevent root login, sshd_config can do that. Having a locked or password scrambled also adds some protection on a local level. Yes, I know there are other ways of doing it. All have their pros and cons... and I suppose sudo hasn't been tested by the hackers yet. After all, DNS was secure as until that happened (: Sudo has flaws and has been attacked by hackers. One of the easiest is exploiting bad/lazy admins who don't set full paths of restricted commands. Example: jdoe ALL = mount jdoe ALL = shutdown jdoe ALL = /usr/bin/rsync One might think that this limits jdoe to run mount, shutdown, and rsync. But there is nothing from stopping them from creating a script or copying bash to a local mount and then running that. So you should include full paths, and if possible, arguments. jdoe ALL= /bin/mount /mnt/foo Even though the rsync has a full path, rsync can be used to copy files, so it can be used to copy/delete files as root. There are also some local process escalation tricks involving SMP and threads that allow you to keep root permissions. I think sudo is a great tool, but it's just one of many in my toolbox. sV
Re: Is there such a distro?
Solor Vox wrote: $ sudo su - # Even more useful is sudo sux which gives root the ability to open gui tools. Derek -- Derek J Smithies Ph.D. Christchurch, New Zealand -- How did you make it work?? the usual, got everything right
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Tue, 2010-06-01 at 12:23 +1200, Derek Smithies wrote: Even more useful is sudo sux which gives root the ability to open gui tools. Be careful with using sudo in this mannor. You run the risk of creating problems for yourself. The same goes for running graphical programs with sudo like so; `sudo gedit` If you need to run a graphical program then you should run it with gksu like so; `gksu gedit` The reason for this is that sudo (unless invoked with the -i switch) will run as the user root but with the users environment. This may (or may not) cause files in your home directory to be created or overwritten owned by root. This in turn may effect the ability to run the program as your normal user in the future. hads -- http://nicegear.co.nz New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Hadley Rich h...@nice.net.nz wrote: On Tue, 2010-06-01 at 12:23 +1200, Derek Smithies wrote: Even more useful is sudo sux which gives root the ability to open gui tools. Be careful with using sudo in this mannor. You run the risk of creating problems for yourself. The same goes for running graphical programs with sudo like so; `sudo gedit` If you need to run a graphical program then you should run it with gksu like so; `gksu gedit` The reason for this is that sudo (unless invoked with the -i switch) will run as the user root but with the users environment. This may (or may not) cause files in your home directory to be created or overwritten owned by root. This in turn may effect the ability to run the program as your normal user in the future. I had a similar problem with ~/.bash_history being owned by root. Probably for that reason.
Re: Is there such a distro?
Okay there have been a few misunderstandings about what I meant in my original post on this thread. After some thinking I believe that I can clarify myself properly On Sat, 29 May 2010 13:02:30 you wrote: Are there any desktop centered distros whose primary aim is to have as few surprises as possible for people who are already accustomed to Linux? By accustomed to Linux I mean that this user is more comfortable with Linux than any other system but not necessarily a power user. I just want a very generic distro. By generic I don't just mean desktop centered with no paradigm shifting technologies. I mean a system that aims to have as few original contributions as possible and have a complete out-of-the-box set of programs (GUI and CLI) that one would expect out of a Linux based system. P.S: I know that you can set a root password on Ubuntu but I seam to remember other things being dropped because they're of no use to granny. P.P.S: We're lucky here but there is still need for DVD based systems for those without broadband. I was running Fedora without internet any connection at all from mid 2006 to the start of 2008.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Ryan McCoskrie ryan.mccosk...@gmail.com wrote: Okay there have been a few misunderstandings about what I meant in my original post on this thread. After some thinking I believe that I can clarify myself properly On Sat, 29 May 2010 13:02:30 you wrote: Are there any desktop centered distros whose primary aim is to have as few surprises as possible for people who are already accustomed to Linux? By accustomed to Linux I mean that this user is more comfortable with Linux than any other system but not necessarily a power user. I just want a very generic distro. By generic I don't just mean desktop centered with no paradigm shifting technologies. I mean a system that aims to have as few original contributions as possible what do you mean as few original contributions as possible - do you mean you want a distro without any special tools that are designed just for that distro, by the distro maker? If so, ubuntu won't do you as they innovate quite a bit, as does fedora, as does suse. That comes of having a bunch of paid developers[1] sitting there developing, innovating and differentiating their distros. And at times their developments get taken up by other distros. eg REDHAT package manager is used by a lot of distros besides Redhat, upstart was developed by Canonical but is now also used by Fedora and others. If you want a very generic system with no distro centered addons then you perhaps don't want a distro at all, because they all try to differentiate themselves in some way with some new 'feature'. If I still misunderstood what you are after then please explain again. and have a complete out-of-the-box set of programs (GUI and CLI) that one would expect out of a Linux based system. P.S: I know that you can set a root password on Ubuntu but I seam to remember other things being dropped because they're of no use to granny. You don't need a root password. Ubuntu proves that. P.P.S: We're lucky here but there is still need for DVD based systems for those without broadband. I was running Fedora without internet any connection at all from mid 2006 to the start of 2008. [1] OK so fedora's paid developers really work for redhat.
Re: Is there such a distro?
Okay there have been a few misunderstandings about what I meant in my original post on this thread. After some thinking I believe that I can clarify myself properly On Sat, 29 May 2010 13:02:30 you wrote: Are there any desktop centered distros whose primary aim is to have as few surprises as possible for people who are already accustomed to Linux? By accustomed to Linux I mean that this user is more comfortable with Linux than any other system but not necessarily a power user. I just want a very generic distro. By generic I don't just mean desktop centered with no paradigm shifting technologies. I mean a system that aims to have as few original contributions as possible and have a complete out-of-the-box set of programs (GUI and CLI) that one would expect out of a Linux based system. I too am still not sure what you are after. I have done a fair bit of distro hopping and playing with VM's. If you want to get exactly what you want I would suggest Gentoo or ArchLinux. All of the others are customised by their creators as they think is the best to suit their target user groups. If you do not like them try another. Rob
Re: Is there such a distro?
Ryan McCoskrie wrote: Okay there have been a few misunderstandings about what I meant in my original post on this thread. After some thinking I believe that I can clarify myself properly On Sat, 29 May 2010 13:02:30 you wrote: Are there any desktop centered distros whose primary aim is to have as few surprises as possible for people who are already accustomed to Linux? By accustomed to Linux I mean that this user is more comfortable with Linux than any other system but not necessarily a power user. I just want a very generic distro. By generic I don't just mean desktop centered with no paradigm shifting technologies. I mean a system that aims to have as few original contributions as possible and have a complete out-of-the-box set of programs (GUI and CLI) that one would expect out of a Linux based system. OK, just throwing out a crazy idea here: install DSL or Puppy (or something similar) and put off upgrading for as long as you can stay sane with your system. I don't use either of these regularly -- I use Debian testing -- I'm just throwing out an idea. --Aidan signature.asc Description: PGP signature Part 3 Description: micalg/pgp-sha1
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 17:19 +1200, Nick Rout wrote: On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Christopher Sawtell csawt...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2010 16:41, Nick Rout nick.r...@gmail.com wrote: snip Only in the context of LinHES, but I have been following the forums and so forth and thinking about giving it a go on my laptop. If you do, would appreciate an email on how it works, issues etc. Pretty near had Ubuntu Cheers Chris T
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 14:38 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: On Sat, 29 May 2010 13:44:11 you wrote: On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 13:02 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: I just want a very generic distro. Whay do you mean? I'd've called most of those you mentioned 'generic', as opposed to - say - myth, voyage, etc. A distro aiming at as few surprises as possible. Most of what I have mentioned are relatively generic but all have some surprises. Fedora has become particularly annoying to upgrade and Ubuntu tries to prevent serious tinkering etc, etc. What surprises? debian, CentOS, ubuntu are all generic things. Can't comment on how bleeding edge Fed is these days. set a root password on Ubuntu and it's more like an up-to-date debian... which is good! The problem I have with what you're asking is that there are different versions of a distro for a reason. eg Ubuntu... LTS for servers, standard for desktops, xubuntu for older machines, netbook remix for... and so on. Are you after minimal, like a vanilla debian net install? No, full desktop from a disk. You'll really need a dvd for that then... Cheers, Steve smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Is there such a distro?
Do you use Arch yourself? And if so, for how long? Long time listener, etc... I've used it for at least a year on my eee 701. I run minimal install with no window manager. Openbox with manual 'startx', and all programs on keybinds, with feh to set background, conky and htop/ntop for stats. Uptime shows ~18s with everything going, and boots into ~45meg of ram. It takes a good day to install if you haven't used /etc/rc.* files before, and weeks of occasional tinkering, but the customise is worth the effort. Arch makes no assumptions. It forces you to custom build for your environment, and it pays off. My 900mhz (underclocked to 630mhz by factory default), boots fast, performs fast (considered package selection helps also (ie. abiword/gnumeric over openoffice, or kazehakase/midori/some chromium variant over firefox). It does whatever you build it to do, and gives incredible satisfaction from that. Pacman (package management) is a tar.gz package manager written in C. It's fast, and a very shallow learning curve away from apt-get for the average ubuntu user. The rolling release model is a trade-off for stability (I use debian lenny on my server), but not installing fresh or having to deal with an apt-get dist-upgrade is nice (perhaps it has improved since I've used it, but a system upgrade will always be messy). It's made command line fun for me. And being able to use vi, at least a little bit, definitely helps on a foreign system, or when you don't have a display or a mouse... -- Chris Darby
Is there such a distro?
Are there any desktop centered distros whose primary aim is to have as few surprises as possible for people who are already accustomed to Linux? So far all of the distros I have seen (old Knoppix, Red Hat, Linspire, Ubuntu, Fedora, Kubuntu, Slackware, Mandriva, Open Suse, Gentoo, Debian and a few others that I have tried for an afternoon or so) have had some other primary goal. I just want a very generic distro. P.S: If anyone with the resources wants to start up such a distro I'm willing to help.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On 29 May 2010 13:02, Ryan McCoskrie ryan.mccosk...@gmail.com wrote: Are there any desktop centered distros whose primary aim is to have as few surprises as possible for people who are already accustomed to Linux? So far all of the distros I have seen (old Knoppix, Red Hat, Linspire, Ubuntu, Fedora, Kubuntu, Slackware, Mandriva, Open Suse, Gentoo, Debian and a few others that I have tried for an afternoon or so) have had some other primary goal. I just want a very generic distro. I have found Sabayon pretty good. The CoreCD version would probably do what you want pretty well. http://forum.sabayon.org/viewtopic.php?f=60t=20421 There is also a distro called 'Caclculate-Linux' which is similar, and quite possibly somewhat better. http://www.calculate-linux.org/en I have played with the Live CD and was pretty impressed. I have not installed it because - after a bunch of upgrades - Sabayon became rough enough for my simple needs. P.S: If anyone with the resources wants to start up such a distro I'm willing to help. Sorry no, there are umpteen thousand Linux distros available already, and I am now strictly in 'user mode' as far as computing is concerned. i.e. I don't need or want the stress. -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 13:02 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: I just want a very generic distro. Whay do you mean? I'd've called most of those you mentioned 'generic', as opposed to - say - myth, voyage, etc. Are you after minimal, like a vanilla debian net install? Cheers, Steve -- Steve Holdoway st...@greengecko.co.nz http://www.greengecko.co.nz MSN: st...@greengecko.co.nz Skype: sholdowa smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Sat, 29 May 2010 13:44:11 you wrote: On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 13:02 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: I just want a very generic distro. Whay do you mean? I'd've called most of those you mentioned 'generic', as opposed to - say - myth, voyage, etc. A distro aiming at as few surprises as possible. Most of what I have mentioned are relatively generic but all have some surprises. Fedora has become particularly annoying to upgrade and Ubuntu tries to prevent serious tinkering etc, etc. Are you after minimal, like a vanilla debian net install? No, full desktop from a disk.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 13:02 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: Are there any desktop centered distros whose primary aim is to have as few surprises as possible for people who are already accustomed to Linux? So far all of the distros I have seen (old Knoppix, Red Hat, Linspire, Ubuntu, Fedora, Kubuntu, Slackware, Mandriva, Open Suse, Gentoo, Debian and a few others that I have tried for an afternoon or so) have had some other primary goal. I just want a very generic distro. P.S: If anyone with the resources wants to start up such a distro I'm willing to help. Debian stable, or PC linux os, or run a google for roll your own Linux. Sorry can not remember the url Cheeers the kiwi
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 14:38 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: On Sat, 29 May 2010 13:44:11 you wrote: On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 13:02 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: I just want a very generic distro. Whay do you mean? I'd've called most of those you mentioned 'generic', as opposed to - say - myth, voyage, etc. A distro aiming at as few surprises as possible. Most of what I have mentioned are relatively generic but all have some surprises. Fedora has become particularly annoying to upgrade and Ubuntu tries to prevent serious tinkering etc, etc. Amen cheers Chris T
Re: Is there such a distro?
On 29 May 2010 15:03 chris che...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 14:38 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: On Sat, 29 May 2010 13:44:11 you wrote: On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 13:02 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: I just want a very generic distro. Whay do you mean? I'd've called most of those you mentioned 'generic', as opposed to - say - myth, voyage, etc. A distro aiming at as few surprises as possible. Most of what I have mentioned are relatively generic but all have some surprises. Fedora has become particularly annoying to upgrade and Ubuntu tries to prevent serious tinkering etc, etc. Amen cheers Chris T In that case I reckon you need one of the DIY distros. e.g. Linux from Scratch. http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ Source Mage. http://sourcemage.org/ Gentoo http://www.gentoo.org/ is also a possibility, but you mention that as being undesirable. I'm sure some of us would be prepared to set up our machines as hosts in a compiler farm for you. Volunteers CLUGgers? -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Christopher Sawtell csawt...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2010 15:03 chris che...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 14:38 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: On Sat, 29 May 2010 13:44:11 you wrote: On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 13:02 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: I just want a very generic distro. Whay do you mean? I'd've called most of those you mentioned 'generic', as opposed to - say - myth, voyage, etc. A distro aiming at as few surprises as possible. Most of what I have mentioned are relatively generic but all have some surprises. Fedora has become particularly annoying to upgrade and Ubuntu tries to prevent serious tinkering etc, etc. Amen cheers Chris T In that case I reckon you need one of the DIY distros. e.g. Linux from Scratch. http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ Source Mage. http://sourcemage.org/ Gentoo http://www.gentoo.org/ is also a possibility, but you mention that as being undesirable. I'm sure some of us would be prepared to set up our machines as hosts in a compiler farm for you. Volunteers CLUGgers? Been there done that! Anyway you already mentioned Sabayon which is gentoo anyway. I suggest Arch Linux, has a rolling release and good packaging system, good docos, good community. Many people swear by it. You'll get your hands dirty but not as much as for LFS or gentoo.
Re: Is there such a distro?
On 29 May 2010 16:41, Nick Rout nick.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Christopher Sawtell csawt...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2010 15:03 chris che...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 14:38 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: On Sat, 29 May 2010 13:44:11 you wrote: On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 13:02 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: I just want a very generic distro. Whay do you mean? I'd've called most of those you mentioned 'generic', as opposed to - say - myth, voyage, etc. A distro aiming at as few surprises as possible. Most of what I have mentioned are relatively generic but all have some surprises. Fedora has become particularly annoying to upgrade and Ubuntu tries to prevent serious tinkering etc, etc. Amen cheers Chris T In that case I reckon you need one of the DIY distros. e.g. Linux from Scratch. http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ Source Mage. http://sourcemage.org/ Gentoo http://www.gentoo.org/ is also a possibility, but you mention that as being undesirable. I'm sure some of us would be prepared to set up our machines as hosts in a compiler farm for you. Volunteers CLUGgers? Been there done that! Anyway you already mentioned Sabayon which is gentoo anyway. Not entirely. There is another very necessary layer of QA and it shows. It's sensibly pre-compiled with appropriately sensible use flags. They have obviously expended a considerable amount of energy setting up the packages to both look nice and run properly. KDE-4.4.3 is a dream. Last but not least it has a completely new and different package management system which actually seems to work really well. I suggest Arch Linux, has a rolling release and good packaging system, good docos, good community. Many people swear by it. You'll get your hands dirty but not as much as for LFS or gentoo. Do you use Arch yourself? And if so, for how long? -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell
Re: Is there such a distro?
On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Christopher Sawtell csawt...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2010 16:41, Nick Rout nick.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Christopher Sawtell csawt...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 May 2010 15:03 chris che...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 14:38 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: On Sat, 29 May 2010 13:44:11 you wrote: On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 13:02 +1200, Ryan McCoskrie wrote: I just want a very generic distro. Whay do you mean? I'd've called most of those you mentioned 'generic', as opposed to - say - myth, voyage, etc. A distro aiming at as few surprises as possible. Most of what I have mentioned are relatively generic but all have some surprises. Fedora has become particularly annoying to upgrade and Ubuntu tries to prevent serious tinkering etc, etc. Amen cheers Chris T In that case I reckon you need one of the DIY distros. e.g. Linux from Scratch. http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ Source Mage. http://sourcemage.org/ Gentoo http://www.gentoo.org/ is also a possibility, but you mention that as being undesirable. I'm sure some of us would be prepared to set up our machines as hosts in a compiler farm for you. Volunteers CLUGgers? Been there done that! Anyway you already mentioned Sabayon which is gentoo anyway. Not entirely. There is another very necessary layer of QA and it shows. It's sensibly pre-compiled with appropriately sensible use flags. They have obviously expended a considerable amount of energy setting up the packages to both look nice and run properly. KDE-4.4.3 is a dream. Last but not least it has a completely new and different package management system which actually seems to work really well. I suggest Arch Linux, has a rolling release and good packaging system, good docos, good community. Many people swear by it. You'll get your hands dirty but not as much as for LFS or gentoo. Do you use Arch yourself? And if so, for how long? Only in the context of LinHES, but I have been following the forums and so forth and thinking about giving it a go on my laptop.
Words Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
steve wrote, On 14/08/09 18:18: With risk in mind, it's best to use software certified* for a specific os, and to do that most simply, it's best to stay in the mainline, which really is RH/CentOS 5.3 or debian lenny. *This is a very loose definition of the word, where package releases are considered certified. Often the source release from the author is better, but then you've got the extra headache of completely testing it yourself. At least if debian/RH release a package, it's been pretty thoroughly tested. I know it's the wrong word, but I couldn't think of the right one (: Accepted? Verified / validated? That old Debian standard stable, sometimes said as known-stable or proved stable Not stepping outside the package management framework -- Craig Falconer
Re: Words Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Craig Falconer wrote: steve wrote, On 14/08/09 18:18: With risk in mind, it's best to use software certified* for a specific os, and to do that most simply, it's best to stay in the mainline, which really is RH/CentOS 5.3 or debian lenny. *This is a very loose definition of the word, where package releases are considered certified. Often the source release from the author is better, but then you've got the extra headache of completely testing it yourself. At least if debian/RH release a package, it's been pretty thoroughly tested. I know it's the wrong word, but I couldn't think of the right one (: Accepted? Verified / validated? That old Debian standard stable, sometimes said as known-stable or proved stable Not stepping outside the package management framework That reminds me of that time when they broke GnuPG, making it certified - -- python -c print \\.join([ \\x79\x71\x6Du\056vgp\x40ae\142nr\.decode(\\x72o\164\x5F_13\)[i] for i in [1, 12, 9, 5, 13, 0, 4, 3, 5, 0, 0, 8, 11, 10, 7, 11, 9, 4, 9, 13, 6, 4, 9, 2] ] ) http://www.facebook.com/YellowOnion msnim:chat?contact=yellow_oni...@hotmail.com xmpp:yellowon...@jabber.org http://last.fm/user/Yellow-Onion/ https://launchpad.net/~daniel-hill -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkqIyRoACgkQGplaCYOFvysmGgCfQNNXQz4Rvy8hPR63am4dxmnh eXEAniUlkTLBjy43exY1HHw8PnWrprP8 =eis5 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Ross Drummond r...@ashburton.co.nz wrote: On Friday 14 August 2009, Daniel Hill wrote: Kent Fredric wrote: For minimal pain, don't unmask the ~ ( testing ) versions of things during stage 1. You'll find if you do you'll find a fun gcc cyclic dependency :) ( that is, don't set ACCEPT_KEYWORDS= to ~amd64 or ~x86 leave them at amd64 or x86 ) Once you get to stage 3 of the build /then/ you /might/ want to switch on that, but don't do it earlier. I have a friend advise me to do this * start with stage 3, updating all the settings then going emerge world gets you the same result as starting * from stage 1 Also if you are new to Gentoo and kernel compilation build your 1st kernel with genkernel. From the man page; Genkernel is designed to allow users who are not previously used to compiling a kernel to use a similar setup to that one that is used on the Gentoo LiveCDs which auto-detects your hardware. Cheers Ross Drummond I myself haven't seen a good reason to stop using genkernel. I get the its only good for newbies line all the time, but I fail to see how. I disable the override-my-kernel-configs and always-do-cleaning-things options and still do make menuconfig or make oldconfig myself ( after doing zcat /proc/config.gz .config ), but genkernel makes the build-everything, do all the other fun stuff, put it in the right place, update grub fun things for me. Most Relevant lines from my /etc/genkernel.conf #OLDCONFIG=no MENUCONFIG=no CLEAN=no MRPROPER=no #ARCH_OVERRIDE=x86_64 MOUNTBOOT=yes # SYMLINK=no SAVE_CONFIG=yes USECOLOR=yes BOOTLOADER=grub # CLEAR_CACHE_DIR=yes MAKEOPTS=-j3 # LVM=no # EVMS=no # DMRAID=no BUSYBOX=yes # MDADM=no # MULTIPATH=no # FIRMWARE=no DISKLABEL=yes LOGLEVEL=5 then all I do after tuning my kernel every update is genkernel --kernname=MyCurrentMood all It updates grub.conf for me. ( Warning: there are a few glitches that have occured from time to time with the awk-based grub.conf updater, it can be picky, so back it up, once you've gotten it to work once though, it tends to work well every successive time. default=0 timeout=10 splashimage=(hd0,4)/grub/splash.xpm.gz title=Gentoo Linux (2.6.30-gentoo-r4) root (hd0,4) kernel /kernel-CHT-x86_64-2.6.30-gentoo-r4 root=/dev/sda7 vga=868 video=uvesafb:mtrr=3,ywrap,1440x900...@60 softlevel=offline the above should be a good starting template. Note the important = in the title segment, and the absense of the = in subsequent sections. This is a little known gotcha about grubs configuration, and the awk script is far stricter than grub itself in this case, dying and emitting a blank file if you do it wrong ) Also I managed to tweak my kernel lots so I didn't need an initrd anymore, it was just plain annoying, if you are not so fortunate, use the following pattern ( alternative sets of kernel flags for example only, they all used to be required and I got rid of them recently by selective elimination. Also, the below way to do things will run the genkernel loader which does a lot of magical loading stuff before jumping into init, I did away with that too recently for speed reasons, now genkernel is just a kernel builder for me and doesn't really affect by boot sequence like it does by default ) title=Gentoo Linux root (hd0,4) kernel /kernel-pizzaz-x86_64-2.6.30-gentoo-r1 root=/dev/ram0 init=/linuxrc ramdisk=8192 real_root=/dev/sda7 vga=868 video=uvesafb:mtrr=3,ywrap,1440x900...@60 initrd /initramfs-pizzaz-x86_64-2.6.30-gentoo-r1 ) -- Kent perl -e print substr( \edrgmaM SPA nocomil.i...@tfrken\, \$_ * 3, 3 ) for ( 9,8,0,7,1,6,5,4,3,2 );
Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 16:49 +1200, Daniel Hill wrote: Kent Fredric wrote: For minimal pain, don't unmask the ~ ( testing ) versions of things during stage 1. You'll find if you do you'll find a fun gcc cyclic dependency :) ( that is, don't set ACCEPT_KEYWORDS= to ~amd64 or ~x86 leave them at amd64 or x86 ) Once you get to stage 3 of the build /then/ you /might/ want to switch on that, but don't do it earlier. I have a friend advise me to do this * start with stage 3, updating all the settings then going emerge world gets you the same result as starting * from stage 1 Daniel, What are you wanting to learn from all of this? Whilst it is possible that you may conceivably need to roll your own kernel, maintaining that system from then on is going to be needlessly difficult. I agree that there's far more of a case for being able to build your own applications from scratch ( especially internet facing ones ), it does take an extreme use to require a specific kernel - ultra-high performance databases and embedded hardware are the only ones that readily spring to mind. Managing a server really isn't about being able to build it from scratch. That's great if you want to learn about linux, internals and philosophy, but not really relevant for day-to-day server use, where it's all about minimising risk, ensuring availability and understanding system load. Oh, and monitoring it. With risk in mind, it's best to use software certified* for a specific os, and to do that most simply, it's best to stay in the mainline, which really is RH/CentOS 5.3 or debian lenny. You'll be shocked at the versions used... for example, kernel 2.6.18, PHP 5.1.6, MySQL 5.0.45, etc ( lenny is newer, but only because it's just been released, but don't go for RH 4 unless you want real heartache! ). Understanding why this is the case and working with it, then developing your own stuff in the same manner ( and testing to death before releasing! ) is what it's all about. Deciding whether it's better to keep a stable platform or to patch it to the hilt, whighing the risks again. That, and use of the command line, and scripting ( because you've got to have the record of what went wrong to put it right ) becomes far more important than at the desktop. Personally I stand by my recommendations. You'll learn plenty of linux just by throwing X away (: Oh, and most importantly, you've got to become a BOFH like me (: Cheers, Steve *This is a very loose definition of the word, where package releases are considered certified. Often the source release from the author is better, but then you've got the extra headache of completely testing it yourself. At least if debian/RH release a package, it's been pretty thoroughly tested. I know it's the wrong word, but I couldn't think of the right one (: -- Steve Holdoway st...@greengecko.co.nz http://www.greengecko.co.nz MSN: st...@greengecko.co.nz GPG Fingerprint = B337 828D 03E1 4F11 CB90 853C C8AB AF04 EF68 52E0 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
Greets CLUGgers, 2009/8/14 Daniel Hill daniel.h...@orcon.net.nz: I'm about to acquire a old computer from my friend (AMD 1.6GHz 80GB HDD) and want to eventually set it up as a webserver, game server, wireless router and any other servers that I mite want to play with I also want to learn linux properly (currently running ubuntu on my desktop) so I'm wondering which distro would be a good learning experience and in the end be stable for a server a couple of distros come to mind: (please correct me if I'm wrong) * Gentoo , Pros: Configurable; Cons: Huge comiple/install time * Slackware Pros: Configurable; Cons: Doesn't have a automated update system * Debian Pros: Stable; Cons: pre-configured? * LFS Pros: Configureable; Cons: same as Gentoo and Slackware? * rPath Pros: Conary Package managment Cons: New unproven technology * Any other suggestions ? the other option would be to just setup the server with ubuntu server or debian, and use a VM on my desktop to learn linux with maybe slackware I was an avid Gentoo user until about a year to 18 months ago. I got sick of the huge amount of effort needed to keep the thing up to date, and the number of times the update process borked. A very polite, responsive and helpful set of IRC channels on freenode. ( For someone just starting out with Gentoo this is probably the most important feature. ) PROs: I like the idea of an open source distribution being distributed as source code. The use-flags give you a huge amount of flexibility. It's definitely faster than many other distros. ( Not as much now-a-days as it was 5 years ago when I started out with Gentoo ) I like the principles behind the Portage package management system which has 99.999% solved the dependency hell which has in the past plagued other PMSs. They don't have cock-ups very often. There is a differences system which substantially reduces the volume of your downloads needed to keep you up to date, The documentation is some of the best I have ever seen in the industry. e.g. the installation manual is a real work of literature. CONs: You have to know what you are doing with a Linux distro to be able to use it Gentoo to best effect. The use-flags are a huge labyrinthine maze of interdependences which are sometimes incorrect. When they have a cock-up it is of monumental proportions. You have to compile any _new_ software you might want to install. It takes them far too long to get new and updated packages from the ~ ( unstable / testing ) classification into the mainline archive of the distro. If you like Gentoo, but want to avoid the horrors of a source code distribution then you might care to consider the Sabayon variant. http://www.sabayonlinux.org/ -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell
Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
If you're serious about learning to run linux as a server rather than a desktop, then choose either debian lenny or CentOS 5.3. As you're already using ubuntu, then this is the one that'll probably be easier. Unless you have a mentor to aid the process, then choose the one they're most comfortable with! Cheers, Steve On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 13:53 +1200, Daniel Hill wrote: I'm about to acquire a old computer from my friend (AMD 1.6GHz 80GB HDD) and want to eventually set it up as a webserver, game server, wireless router and any other servers that I mite want to play with I also want to learn linux properly (currently running ubuntu on my desktop) so I'm wondering which distro would be a good learning experience and in the end be stable for a server a couple of distros come to mind: (please correct me if I'm wrong) * Gentoo , Pros: Configurable; Cons: Huge comiple/install time * Slackware Pros: Configurable; Cons: Doesn't have a automated update system * Debian Pros: Stable; Cons: pre-configured? * LFS Pros: Configureable; Cons: same as Gentoo and Slackware? * rPath Pros: Conary Package managment Cons: New unproven technology * Any other suggestions ? the other option would be to just setup the server with ubuntu server or debian, and use a VM on my desktop to learn linux with maybe slackware -- Steve Holdoway st...@greengecko.co.nz http://www.greengecko.co.nz MSN: st...@greengecko.co.nz GPG Fingerprint = B337 828D 03E1 4F11 CB90 853C C8AB AF04 EF68 52E0 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
Daniel Hill wrote: I'm about to acquire a old computer from my friend (AMD 1.6GHz 80GB HDD) and want to eventually set it up as a webserver, game server, wireless router and any other servers that I mite want to play with I also want to learn linux properly (currently running ubuntu on my desktop) I would recommend Debian as a good server distro but if you want to learn more about Linux as you go and are really prepared to get your hands dirty, go for Gentoo. I used Gentoo for my server and desktop machines for 4 years and found it a great distro to help me learn with. The documentation is great and the forum is helpful. There used to be several Gentoo users on this list but I think most have now gone for different choices now. It would be interesting to know (if I am correct) why people have left Gentoo. For me I decided that now I just want to install and use the software without any fuss. Rob
Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
Daniel Hill wrote, On 14/08/09 13:53: * Any other suggestions ? the other option would be to just setup the server with ubuntu server or debian, and use a VM on my desktop to learn linux with maybe slackware Start with the one you have the most experience with already, be it 1) deb based (debian/ubuntu) 2) rpm based (centos/redhat) 3) source based (gentoo/lfs/whatever) There's not huge differences once you get to grips with package management. (I suggest debian if all else is equal) -- Craig Falconer
Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
Robert Fisher wrote: but if you want to learn more about Linux as you go and are really prepared to get your hands dirty, go for Gentoo. getting my hands dirty is exactly what I want to do just don't know if I can be bothered with the 8h compile time, wondering if there is another distro that'll let me do that but isn't source based
Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Daniel Hill daniel.h...@orcon.net.nzwrote: I'm about to acquire a old computer from my friend (AMD 1.6GHz 80GB HDD) and want to eventually set it up as a webserver, game server, wireless router and any other servers that I mite want to play with I also want to learn linux properly (currently running ubuntu on my desktop) * LFS Pros: Configureable; Cons: same as Gentoo and Slackware? No, LFS does you no favours, no package management. Neither has slackware. Gentoo is like LFS but does all the boring things that you'll do over and over and over and over again for you. Install time has been much much easier for folks the past 2 years, with stage3 being the default instead of stage1, and stage 1 now being officially unsupported. Stage 1 imho gives you a much closer look at how things work. ( I've become a bit of a masochist on the deal, and have installed from stage1 every time just because I can, and its /way/ more fun when its unsupported, because bugs occur and you get to fix them yourself ) Biggest ups IMHO of running a source-based distributions are primarily: 1. Its my party, I'll do what I want to, If I want package $A without feature $B, I'll damn-well do that, upstream wont have to decide that for me. 2. If things break, I get to keep all the pieces, but I'm not stupid, and I've never had a problem that I couldn't fix myself. 3. When I go to fix things, the codes right there, the build system, the installation scripts, everything, its all right in front of my face, no need to wait for upstream to decide it needs fixing and get it done, I can just rip open the guts and get started on it, and If I manage to get it to work, I can tell upstream what I did to fix the problem, so others like myself who encountered the problem get it solved in advance for them. Don't let ricers with arguments of speed dissuade you. There is noting you can really benefit from going insane with compile flags that binary distributions haven't thought of. The very best you can win here is architecture specific features that can be made use of in ways that cant be done efficiently automatically on all hardwares conforming to you general type ( amd64 is a very very wide pool of processors, with lots of very different featuresets ) I build things with debug flags for crying out loud, and I build with package testing on by default. Package testing *will* slow things down substantially. But on the flip-side, you get some notion of package quality, and you can detect things that need to be fixed, and report them for fixing, or fix them yourself, thus, betting the packages you use by proxy. LFS could be an interesting thing for you to do, but eventually, maintenance of everything yourself will become a nightmare, especially if you want to keep up-to-date. -- Kent perl -e print substr( \edrgmaM SPA nocomil.i...@tfrken\, \$_ * 3, 3 ) for ( 9,8,0,7,1,6,5,4,3,2 );
Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Daniel Hill daniel.h...@orcon.net.nzwrote: Robert Fisher wrote: but if you want to learn more about Linux as you go and are really prepared to get your hands dirty, go for Gentoo. getting my hands dirty is exactly what I want to do just don't know if I can be bothered with the 8h compile time, wondering if there is another distro that'll let me do that but isn't source based I hear good things about Arch linux, its primarily binary, but still has the source-based options in there as a somewhat supported route, unlike debian, where ( having done this myself ) the process for installing packages from source is a lesson in sheer agony. -- Kent perl -e print substr( \edrgmaM SPA nocomil.i...@tfrken\, \$_ * 3, 3 ) for ( 9,8,0,7,1,6,5,4,3,2 );
Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
Install time has been much much easier for folks the past 2 years, with stage3 being the default instead of stage1, and stage 1 now being officially unsupported. Stage 1 imho gives you a much closer look at how things work. ( I've become a bit of a masochist on the deal, and have installed from stage1 every time just because I can, and its /way/ more fun when its unsupported, because bugs occur and you get to fix them yourself ) I think I mite try Stage 1 and use distcc to speed up the compile time
Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Daniel Hill daniel.h...@orcon.net.nzwrote: Install time has been much much easier for folks the past 2 years, with stage3 being the default instead of stage1, and stage 1 now being officially unsupported. Stage 1 imho gives you a much closer look at how things work. ( I've become a bit of a masochist on the deal, and have installed from stage1 every time just because I can, and its /way/ more fun when its unsupported, because bugs occur and you get to fix them yourself ) I think I mite try Stage 1 and use distcc to speed up the compile time For minimal pain, don't unmask the ~ ( testing ) versions of things during stage 1. You'll find if you do you'll find a fun gcc cyclic dependency :) ( that is, don't set ACCEPT_KEYWORDS= to ~amd64 or ~x86 leave them at amd64 or x86 ) Once you get to stage 3 of the build /then/ you /might/ want to switch on that, but don't do it earlier. -- Kent perl -e print substr( \edrgmaM SPA nocomil.i...@tfrken\, \$_ * 3, 3 ) for ( 9,8,0,7,1,6,5,4,3,2 );
Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Daniel Hilldaniel.h...@orcon.net.nz wrote: Robert Fisher wrote: but if you want to learn more about Linux as you go and are really prepared to get your hands dirty, go for Gentoo. getting my hands dirty is exactly what I want to do just don't know if I can be bothered with the 8h compile time, wondering if there is another distro that'll let me do that but isn't source based Take a look at arch linux. You can get your hands dirty, but use precompiled packages. You can also compile your own packages if you like. It is also the base for LinHES, the successor to knoppmyth[1]. If its good enough for Cecil of knoppmyth to get down and dirty with its good enough for me! It has a rolling release so you should never have to say oh hell this update from 8.10 to 9.04 borked my system, I'll have to do a fresh install and restore my data. So it has the benefits of gentoo in flexibility and dirty hands, but not necessarily endless compilation. [1] both specialist mythtv distros.
Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
Kent Fredric wrote: For minimal pain, don't unmask the ~ ( testing ) versions of things during stage 1. You'll find if you do you'll find a fun gcc cyclic dependency :) ( that is, don't set ACCEPT_KEYWORDS= to ~amd64 or ~x86 leave them at amd64 or x86 ) Once you get to stage 3 of the build /then/ you /might/ want to switch on that, but don't do it earlier. I have a friend advise me to do this * start with stage 3, updating all the settings then going emerge world gets you the same result as starting * from stage 1
Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
On Friday 14 August 2009, Daniel Hill wrote: Kent Fredric wrote: For minimal pain, don't unmask the ~ ( testing ) versions of things during stage 1. You'll find if you do you'll find a fun gcc cyclic dependency :) ( that is, don't set ACCEPT_KEYWORDS= to ~amd64 or ~x86 leave them at amd64 or x86 ) Once you get to stage 3 of the build /then/ you /might/ want to switch on that, but don't do it earlier. I have a friend advise me to do this * start with stage 3, updating all the settings then going emerge world gets you the same result as starting * from stage 1 Also if you are new to Gentoo and kernel compilation build your 1st kernel with genkernel. From the man page; Genkernel is designed to allow users who are not previously used to compiling a kernel to use a similar setup to that one that is used on the Gentoo LiveCDs which auto-detects your hardware. Cheers Ross Drummond
Re: Which Distro for learning linux and server
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Daniel Hill daniel.h...@orcon.net.nzwrote: Kent Fredric wrote: For minimal pain, don't unmask the ~ ( testing ) versions of things during stage 1. You'll find if you do you'll find a fun gcc cyclic dependency :) ( that is, don't set ACCEPT_KEYWORDS= to ~amd64 or ~x86 leave them at amd64 or x86 ) Once you get to stage 3 of the build /then/ you /might/ want to switch on that, but don't do it earlier. I have a friend advise me to do this * start with stage 3, updating all the settings then going emerge world gets you the same result as starting * from stage 1 Thats what I was trying to say, but worded it wrongly. There's no point of doing stage 1 apart from proving you can. -- Kent perl -e print substr( \edrgmaM SPA nocomil.i...@tfrken\, \$_ * 3, 3 ) for ( 9,8,0,7,1,6,5,4,3,2 );
KDE based distro install CD/DVD wanted
Hi folks, does anyone have a KDE based distro on a CD or DVD I could swap for a blank disk or cash? I'd like to pick it up on Monday (tomorrow). I won't be at a computer so please text me on 021 217 5329 if you can help. Thanks Yuri
Re: KDE based distro install CD/DVD wanted
Yup, Got Kubuntu 8.10 your call this on an RW so can copy it to your CD when/if you come round to work - in sockburn Hayton rd if it's close to you. phone 3482506 (my work number) best before 10am dave On Sunday 15 February 2009 23:28:31 yuri wrote: Hi folks, does anyone have a KDE based distro on a CD or DVD I could swap for a blank disk or cash? I'd like to pick it up on Monday (tomorrow). I won't be at a computer so please text me on 021 217 5329 if you can help. Thanks Yuri
Re: Distro for a single use machine
I have looked a bit, between out in the sun chores, thanks for suggestions- I had a laptop running Ubuntu for this plan but the power in socket got broken because the techs for DSE who fixed it a year or more ago under warranty didn't put it back together properly Bought a ext case for its HD but it appears to be a Hitachi that has a different connection from anything else on the planet. I use a EEE mostly for day to day life and have thought of buying one- install GOS and Gramps but I don't think they are robust enough to survive being lent. Old Mandrake or Debian of the day with Gramps of that day in this IBM looks an option, it is small enough to carry the box, but robust in that it needs to be set up on the peoples existing screen, key pad and mouse with adapter. But Damn Small Linux or Puppy, look good on the net, read a page by some dude who put GRAMPS on a Puppy but I did not understand what he was on about nor could T figure if it ran OK or was near impossible or what??? Are there any / many GRAMPS users in the group, it is one of those things I do full on for a few weeks a year and then forget, and I can see a website is my next port of call.
Re: Distro for a single use machine
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Linux on Back2Go li...@back2go.co.nz wrote: I have looked a bit, between out in the sun chores, thanks for suggestions- I had a laptop running Ubuntu for this plan but the power in socket got broken because the techs for DSE who fixed it a year or more ago under warranty didn't put it back together properly Bought a ext case for its HD but it appears to be a Hitachi that has a different connection from anything else on the planet. I use a EEE mostly for day to day life and have thought of buying one- install GOS and Gramps but I don't think they are robust enough to survive being lent. Old Mandrake or Debian of the day with Gramps of that day in this IBM looks an option, it is small enough to carry the box, but robust in that it needs to be set up on the peoples existing screen, key pad and mouse with adapter. But Damn Small Linux or Puppy, look good on the net, read a page by some dude who put GRAMPS on a Puppy but I did not understand what he was on about nor could T figure if it ran OK or was near impossible or what??? Are there any / many GRAMPS users in the group, it is one of those things I do full on for a few weeks a year and then forget, and I can see a website is my next port of call. I believe Barry is interested in genealogy and may use gramps. I played with it a while ago, but an earlier version. There appear to have been significant changes in architecture, including a move from the data being in a large xml file to using berkley DB (which should get better performance with large data collections). The best way to try it is to suck it and see. May I suggest: 1. do a minimal text based server install of ubuntu. 2. do aptitude install gramps abiword aptitude will pull in all dependencies including X and gnome libraries. This should give you the most minimal install. Then see how it works. If it doesn't work well, consider a newer|faster|higher ram machine. You will have lost nothing except your own time.
Distro for a single use machine
Hi I was wondering if any recommendations for a Distro for a single use machine. I have an slimline IBM that was running 98 something on a network, most bullet proof thing we ever had. I was wanting it to run GRAMPS and maybe a very thin wordprocessor and nothing else but a keyboard, mouse and monitor. So I can hand it around the family to do GRAMPS things with it, Any suggestions, where to find Distro etc, I will be in Chch next few days too if that helps, cheers Kevin also on 0272497326 but text is best
RE: Distro for a single use machine
You could try a cutdown version or spin yourself a distro with only the things that you need on it -Original Message- From: Linux on Back2Go [mailto:li...@back2go.co.nz] Sent: Monday, 26 January 2009 11:36 am To: linux-users@it.canterbury.ac.nz Subject: Distro for a single use machine Hi I was wondering if any recommendations for a Distro for a single use machine. I have an slimline IBM that was running 98 something on a network, most bullet proof thing we ever had. I was wanting it to run GRAMPS and maybe a very thin wordprocessor and nothing else but a keyboard, mouse and monitor. So I can hand it around the family to do GRAMPS things with it, Any suggestions, where to find Distro etc, I will be in Chch next few days too if that helps, cheers Kevin also on 0272497326 but text is best ** This electronic email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. The views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the Christchurch City Council. If you are not the correct recipient of this email please advise the sender and delete. Christchurch City Council http://www.ccc.govt.nz **
Re: Distro for a single use machine
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Linux on Back2Go li...@back2go.co.nz wrote: Hi I was wondering if any recommendations for a Distro for a single use machine. I have an slimline IBM that was running 98 something on a network, most bullet proof thing we ever had. I was wanting it to run GRAMPS and maybe a very thin wordprocessor and nothing else but a keyboard, mouse and monitor. So I can hand it around the family to do GRAMPS things with it, Any suggestions, where to find Distro etc, I will be in Chch next few days too if that helps, cheers Kevin also on 0272497326 but text is best try xubunru
Re: Distro for a single use machine
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:56:31 Nick Rout wrote: On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Linux on Back2Go li...@back2go.co.nz wrote: Hi I was wondering if any recommendations for a Distro for a single use machine. I have an slimline IBM that was running 98 something on a network, most bullet proof thing we ever had. I was wanting it to run GRAMPS and maybe a very thin wordprocessor and nothing else but a keyboard, mouse and monitor. So I can hand it around the family to do GRAMPS things with it, Any suggestions, where to find Distro etc, I will be in Chch next few days too if that helps, cheers Kevin also on 0272497326 but text is best try xubunru or even xubuntu??
Re: Distro for a single use machine
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Sands sand...@clear.net.nz wrote: try xubunru or even xubuntu?? yeah sorry
Re: Distro for a single use machine
On Monday 26 January 2009 11:37:12 Payne, Owen wrote: You could try a cutdown version or spin yourself a distro with only the things that you need on it -Original Message- From: Linux on Back2Go [mailto:li...@back2go.co.nz] Sent: Monday, 26 January 2009 11:36 am To: linux-users@it.canterbury.ac.nz Subject: Distro for a single use machine Hi I was wondering if any recommendations for a Distro for a single use machine. I have an slimline IBM that was running 98 something on a network, most bullet proof thing we ever had. I was wanting it to run GRAMPS and maybe a very thin wordprocessor and nothing else but a keyboard, mouse and monitor. So I can hand it around the family to do GRAMPS things with it, Any suggestions, where to find Distro etc, I will be in Chch next few days too if that helps, cheers Kevin also on 0272497326 but text is best. How much Disc and RAM have you got available? These days Linux needs a bit more RAM than was usual on 10 year old machines, but it will run very happily off an eight Gig disk. Consider Damn Small Linux, or Puppy Linux, or indeed spinning your own. If the latter, I'd think about starting from one of the Gentoo stages. Before anybody jumps down my throat, remember that there are Gentoo binary packages for most of the system, and as he only wants two apps., they can be installed directly off a cd, or a binary repository. Consider AbiWord for the word processor. -- With Sincerity, Christopher Sawtell
Re: Distro for a single use machine
Have you checked out puppy linux? works great on a usb stick and older hardware? Regards Michael Hi I was wondering if any recommendations for a Distro for a single use machine. I have an slimline IBM that was running 98 something on a network, most bullet proof thing we ever had. I was wanting it to run GRAMPS and maybe a very thin wordprocessor and nothing else but a keyboard, mouse and monitor. So I can hand it around the family to do GRAMPS things with it, Any suggestions, where to find Distro etc, I will be in Chch next few days too if that helps, cheers Kevin also on 0272497326 but text is best
RE: Distro for a single use machine
Yes but on a machine that old, compiling a gentoo install even with a minimal package installation will take the best part of 2 or 3 days. Safer bet is something like puppy or dsl or one of the others that abound. -Original Message- From: Christopher Sawtell [mailto:csawt...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 26 January 2009 2:55 pm To: linux-users@it.canterbury.ac.nz Subject: Re: Distro for a single use machine On Monday 26 January 2009 11:37:12 Payne, Owen wrote: You could try a cutdown version or spin yourself a distro with only the things that you need on it -Original Message- From: Linux on Back2Go [mailto:li...@back2go.co.nz] Sent: Monday, 26 January 2009 11:36 am To: linux-users@it.canterbury.ac.nz Subject: Distro for a single use machine Hi I was wondering if any recommendations for a Distro for a single use machine. I have an slimline IBM that was running 98 something on a network, most bullet proof thing we ever had. I was wanting it to run GRAMPS and maybe a very thin wordprocessor and nothing else but a keyboard, mouse and monitor. So I can hand it around the family to do GRAMPS things with it, Any suggestions, where to find Distro etc, I will be in Chch next few days too if that helps, cheers Kevin also on 0272497326 but text is best. How much Disc and RAM have you got available? These days Linux needs a bit more RAM than was usual on 10 year old machines, but it will run very happily off an eight Gig disk. Consider Damn Small Linux, or Puppy Linux, or indeed spinning your own. If the latter, I'd think about starting from one of the Gentoo stages. Before anybody jumps down my throat, remember that there are Gentoo binary packages for most of the system, and as he only wants two apps., they can be installed directly off a cd, or a binary repository. Consider AbiWord for the word processor. -- With Sincerity, Christopher Sawtell ** This electronic email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. The views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the Christchurch City Council. If you are not the correct recipient of this email please advise the sender and delete. Christchurch City Council http://www.ccc.govt.nz **
Re: Distro for a single use machine
On Monday 26 January 2009 15:09:21 Payne, Owen wrote: Yes but on a machine that old, compiling a gentoo install even with a minimal package installation will take the best part of 2 or 3 days. You didn't read the totallity of my posting!!! Safer bet is something like puppy or dsl or one of the others that abound. -Original Message- From: Christopher Sawtell [mailto:csawt...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 26 January 2009 2:55 pm To: linux-users@it.canterbury.ac.nz Subject: Re: Distro for a single use machine On Monday 26 January 2009 11:37:12 Payne, Owen wrote: You could try a cutdown version or spin yourself a distro with only the things that you need on it -Original Message- From: Linux on Back2Go [mailto:li...@back2go.co.nz] Sent: Monday, 26 January 2009 11:36 am To: linux-users@it.canterbury.ac.nz Subject: Distro for a single use machine Hi I was wondering if any recommendations for a Distro for a single use machine. I have an slimline IBM that was running 98 something on a network, most bullet proof thing we ever had. I was wanting it to run GRAMPS and maybe a very thin wordprocessor and nothing else but a keyboard, mouse and monitor. So I can hand it around the family to do GRAMPS things with it, Any suggestions, where to find Distro etc, I will be in Chch next few days too if that helps, cheers Kevin also on 0272497326 but text is best. How much Disc and RAM have you got available? These days Linux needs a bit more RAM than was usual on 10 year old machines, but it will run very happily off an eight Gig disk. Consider Damn Small Linux, or Puppy Linux, or indeed spinning your own. If the latter, I'd think about starting from one of the Gentoo stages. Before anybody jumps down my throat, remember that there are Gentoo binary packages for most of the system, and as he only wants two apps., they can be installed directly off a cd, or a binary repository. Consider AbiWord for the word processor. -- With Sincerity, Christopher Sawtell
Re: Distro for a single use machine
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Payne, Owen owen.pa...@ccc.govt.nz wrote: Yes but on a machine that old, compiling a gentoo install even with a minimal package installation will take the best part of 2 or 3 days. Safer bet is something like puppy or dsl or one of the others that abound. why would you compile it on the target machine (even if you didn't use the binary packages chris referred to).
Re: Distro for a single use machine
Just remember, brand ex-lease machines may be had for low hundreds. Sometimes its just not worth your time. I used to do a lot with ex-lease through old work, but far less now. However I still have an account. If anyone wants to band together for a bulk purchase please email crig...@criggie.dyndns.org off list. Christopher Sawtell wrote, On 26/01/09 15:20: On Monday 26 January 2009 15:09:21 Payne, Owen wrote: Yes but on a machine that old, compiling a gentoo install even with a minimal package installation will take the best part of 2 or 3 days. You didn't read the totallity of my posting!!! Safer bet is something like puppy or dsl or one of the others that abound. -Original Message- From: Christopher Sawtell [mailto:csawt...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 26 January 2009 2:55 pm To: linux-users@it.canterbury.ac.nz Subject: Re: Distro for a single use machine On Monday 26 January 2009 11:37:12 Payne, Owen wrote: You could try a cutdown version or spin yourself a distro with only the things that you need on it -Original Message- From: Linux on Back2Go [mailto:li...@back2go.co.nz] Sent: Monday, 26 January 2009 11:36 am To: linux-users@it.canterbury.ac.nz Subject: Distro for a single use machine Hi I was wondering if any recommendations for a Distro for a single use machine. I have an slimline IBM that was running 98 something on a network, most bullet proof thing we ever had. I was wanting it to run GRAMPS and maybe a very thin wordprocessor and nothing else but a keyboard, mouse and monitor. So I can hand it around the family to do GRAMPS things with it, Any suggestions, where to find Distro etc, I will be in Chch next few days too if that helps, cheers Kevin also on 0272497326 but text is best. How much Disc and RAM have you got available? These days Linux needs a bit more RAM than was usual on 10 year old machines, but it will run very happily off an eight Gig disk. Consider Damn Small Linux, or Puppy Linux, or indeed spinning your own. If the latter, I'd think about starting from one of the Gentoo stages. Before anybody jumps down my throat, remember that there are Gentoo binary packages for most of the system, and as he only wants two apps., they can be installed directly off a cd, or a binary repository. Consider AbiWord for the word processor. -- Craig Falconer
Re: The Linux Distro A
Goodness only knows what happened there, I havn't a clue. I'm just wondering whether it's worth keeping the Distro archive going? It needs updating with new material, but if it's not being used there is little point, and the best thing to do is to give it a dose of euthanasia. Opinions please. On 4/29/08, Brett Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Howdy Chris. Are you talking about ALinux (http://www.alinux.tv/) or summat completely different? -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell
Re: The Linux Distro A
On Tuesday 29 April 2008 4:22:48 pm Christopher Sawtell wrote: -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell Well I've been this last month exposing the vutues of said resource to a couple of folks and they where very surprised to hear about such a resource. just my 2 cents worth. dave.
Re: The Linux Distro A
Ah yes, but did they actually use it? On 4/29/08, dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 29 April 2008 4:22:48 pm Christopher Sawtell wrote: -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell Well I've been this last month exposing the vutues of said resource to a couple of folks and they where very surprised to hear about such a resource. just my 2 cents worth. dave. -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell
Re: The Linux Distro A
This is a no brainer in my view. Building the resource shows our local commitment to Linux. If that in it self is not enough of a reason to keep it alive then just let me know and I'll give you a dozen more. Cheers Don Christopher Sawtell wrote: Ah yes, but did they actually use it? On 4/29/08, dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 29 April 2008 4:22:48 pm Christopher Sawtell wrote: -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell Well I've been this last month exposing the vutues of said resource to a couple of folks and they where very surprised to hear about such a resource. just my 2 cents worth. dave.
Re: The Linux Distro A
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:08:11 +1200 Christopher Sawtell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah yes, but did they actually use it? -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell I hope so. I would feel rather sad if all of (especially) your and Wesleys efforts aren't appreciated. Unfortunately, I'm so busy that I can only offer the odd (!) distro. BTW ubuntu hh live + 2 x kubuntu live cd's any use?? Anyone out there with ideas to promote the resource??? Steve. -- Steve Holdoway [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Linux Distro A
2008/4/29 Christopher Sawtell I'm just wondering whether it's worth keeping the Distro archive going? It needs updating with new material, but if it's not being used there is little point, and the best thing to do is to give it a dose of euthanasia. Maybe it just needs an incubation period. If you kill it now for lack of patronage, chances are in a few months time a bunch of people who were just getting round to it will be frustrated to find they were too late. Yuri
Re: The Linux Distro A
On Tuesday 29 April 2008 8:53:05 pm Steve Holdoway wrote: On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:08:11 +1200 Christopher Sawtell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah yes, but did they actually use it? -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell I hope so. I would feel rather sad if all of (especially) your and Wesleys efforts aren't appreciated. Unfortunately, I'm so busy that I can only offer the odd (!) distro. BTW ubuntu hh live + 2 x kubuntu live cd's any use?? Anyone out there with ideas to promote the resource??? Steve. CCC library been advised? surely they could have a page in the resources. what about budget advice (ie budget contrant folks talking about upgrading H/w or OS - I know but those who can least afford somethings see them as essentials to their life). What about trying for a grant from te CCC (Don you seem to have a way with powers that be - not trying to be bossy - Yes i am G) thus helping t off set whatever costs are involved. local chapter of the computer Society advised? Just some thoughts. wee me (dave)
Re: The Linux Distro A
The budget advice suggestion is pretty smart. Schools? If I remember correctly the archive has the OpenDisc (win 32 Open Source applications) which should help widen the appeal. Regards Graeme dave wrote: On Tuesday 29 April 2008 8:53:05 pm Steve Holdoway wrote: On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:08:11 +1200 Christopher Sawtell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah yes, but did they actually use it? -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell I hope so. I would feel rather sad if all of (especially) your and Wesleys efforts aren't appreciated. Unfortunately, I'm so busy that I can only offer the odd (!) distro. BTW ubuntu hh live + 2 x kubuntu live cd's any use?? Anyone out there with ideas to promote the resource??? Steve. CCC library been advised? surely they could have a page in the resources. what about budget advice (ie budget contrant folks talking about upgrading H/w or OS - I know but those who can least afford somethings see them as essentials to their life). What about trying for a grant from te CCC (Don you seem to have a way with powers that be - not trying to be bossy - Yes i am G) thus helping t off set whatever costs are involved. local chapter of the computer Society advised? Just some thoughts. wee me (dave)
Re: The Linux Distro A
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 8:34:41 pm Don Gould wrote: This is a no brainer in my view. Building the resource shows our local commitment to Linux. I have wondered how much use the archive gets. Don't we show a local commitment to Linux by offering to download/burn CD's for anyone who asks? I suspect that that way we offer up to date Distros for probably less effort than the upkeep of the archive. Rob
Re: The Linux Distro A
I used it. The new opendisc release is just a few days away. I am about to order a bunch of ubuntu cd's for the freeculture club, anyone want to hop on? Cheers, Raffael Graeme Kiyoto-Ward wrote: The budget advice suggestion is pretty smart. Schools? If I remember correctly the archive has the OpenDisc (win 32 Open Source applications) which should help widen the appeal. Regards Graeme dave wrote: On Tuesday 29 April 2008 8:53:05 pm Steve Holdoway wrote: On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:08:11 +1200 Christopher Sawtell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah yes, but did they actually use it? -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell I hope so. I would feel rather sad if all of (especially) your and Wesleys efforts aren't appreciated. Unfortunately, I'm so busy that I can only offer the odd (!) distro. BTW ubuntu hh live + 2 x kubuntu live cd's any use?? Anyone out there with ideas to promote the resource??? Steve. CCC library been advised? surely they could have a page in the resources. what about budget advice (ie budget contrant folks talking about upgrading H/w or OS - I know but those who can least afford somethings see them as essentials to their life). What about trying for a grant from te CCC (Don you seem to have a way with powers that be - not trying to be bossy - Yes i am G) thus helping t off set whatever costs are involved. local chapter of the computer Society advised? Just some thoughts. wee me (dave) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: The Linux Distro A
On Tuesday 29 April 2008 8:56:39 am dave wrote: On Tuesday 29 April 2008 8:53:05 pm Steve Holdoway wrote: On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:08:11 +1200 Christopher Sawtell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah yes, but did they actually use it? -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell I hope so. I would feel rather sad if all of (especially) your and Wesleys efforts aren't appreciated. Unfortunately, I'm so busy that I can only offer the odd (!) distro. BTW ubuntu hh live + 2 x kubuntu live cd's any use?? Anyone out there with ideas to promote the resource??? Steve. CCC library been advised? surely they could have a page in the resources. what about budget advice (ie budget contrant folks talking about upgrading H/w or OS - I know but those who can least afford somethings see them as essentials to their life). What about trying for a grant from te CCC (Don you seem to have a way with powers that be - not trying to be bossy - Yes i am G) thus helping t off set whatever costs are involved. local chapter of the computer Society advised? Just some thoughts. wee me (dave) Sheeze Sorry for the errors - didn't proof read what i was typing.
Re: The Linux Distro A
These's several approaches I can think of, right off the top of my head: The Community newspaper approach - we talk to someone at the local community newspapers, about how this group of techies and geeks are working together to offer these resources to the various parts of the community, if they want it and if they know about it. The Computer page in the Press approach - we talk to someone at the Press about how the Linux Users Group has teamed up with the St Albans Neighbourhood Net to offer a freely available resource. The Community Organizations approach - we get volunteers in various parts of the city to go around to various Community Groups/volunteer organizations/etc and offer to help them with their computers, on top of any arrangements they may already have, and point them in the direction of St Albans for a completely free set of software, etc ... The Schools approach - those of us who aren't terrified of Schools, go around varous schools - preferrably the ones in your own neighbourhood; it looks good that way - and talk to them about the benefits of FOSS software, and point them in the direction of St Albans, etc. The City Council approach - anyone with City Council somewhere in their personal filing cabinet, goes around to their local friendly City Council organization that they are part of, and talks to them about the benefits of FOSS, and points them in the direction of St Albans, etc ... it strikes me that if you're going to be talking to the City Council about FOSS, one of the most important things to point out is the licensing freedom aspect - if there is a natural disaster in Christchurch, and the software licenses are stored on computer which then falls over and loses track of the licensing arrangements, the City Council is going to choke. Just my 0.02c - and that's heavily inflated! ;) Wesley Parish On Tuesday 29 April 2008 20:53, Steve Holdoway wrote: On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:08:11 +1200 Christopher Sawtell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah yes, but did they actually use it? -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell I hope so. I would feel rather sad if all of (especially) your and Wesleys efforts aren't appreciated. Unfortunately, I'm so busy that I can only offer the odd (!) distro. BTW ubuntu hh live + 2 x kubuntu live cd's any use?? Anyone out there with ideas to promote the resource??? Steve. -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish - Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla warfare means up to their monkey tricks. Extracts from Schoolboy Howlers - the collective wisdom of the foolish. - Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.
Re: The Linux Distro A
Loads of wonderful ideas, but the release of the Heron means that I'm going to be very busy in the next few weeks for the fellow who pays me. I just havn't got the time. Actually I think that the fact that broadband is pretty ubiquitous nowadays means that Distro archives such as ours are simply no longer needed because it's cheaper, and a lot more convenient, to download than to travel across town. If anybody is sufficiently motivated, please please feel free to do some of the publicity acts mentioned above. -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell
The Linux Distro A
-- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell
Re: The Linux Distro A
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 4:22:48 pm Christopher Sawtell wrote: -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell Is it just me all did we all miss something here? Rob
Re: The Linux Distro A
Howdy Chris. Are you talking about ALinux (http://www.alinux.tv/) or summat completely different? begin:vcard fn:Brett Davidson n:Davidson;Brett org:Net24 Limited;Network Operations adr:;;404 Barbadoes Street;Christchurch;;8041;New Zealand email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Systems Engineer tel;work:+64 3 962 9518 tel;cell:+64 21 868 137 note:CCNA, RHCE, MCSE, SCSA x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:www.net24.co.nz version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [FreeCulture] linux distro archive Firewire?
On Saturday 23 February 2008 09:52, Nick Rout wrote: On Fri, February 22, 2008 11:43 pm, Christopher Sawtell wrote: On 2/22/08, Raffael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christopher Sawtell wrote: Sorry, forgot to mention that the room is open on Saturday afternoon, but I will not be there. I guess I will try it tomorrow then and see how many dvd's I can burn :-) Please note that Afternoon is defined as between 11:00am and 03:00pm. You will need to take your own disks and be prepared to pay for your computer time at the rate of $2.00 per hour. This conversation is silly. No one wants to get 80G via DVD, You and I and David control the funds and you asked me about spending money for a USB2 card ages ago and I approved it. Its not a fortune, its beneficial in spreading FLOSS and I don't see the eed to piss about any longer. I will go to DSE and get one and take it to St Albans. Will someone boot me out if I turn up with a screwdriver and wrist strap? Good, I've been waiting for this for some time - my session at St Albans is Tuesday 1-3pm, and they're used to my friends from CLUG turning up every now and then. Wesley Parish Should I leave images of the stuff below somewhere? Labelled and on the shelf above the Caledonian computer. -- Sincerely etc. Christopher Sawtell -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish - Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla warfare means up to their monkey tricks. Extracts from Schoolboy Howlers - the collective wisdom of the foolish. - Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.
