[NTG-context] Re: Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[Vincent Hennebert]

On Tue, 2023-08-15 at 18:22 +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:

> On 8/15/2023 5:33 PM, Hamid,Idris wrote:
> 
> 
> > so [\s!designsize=\s!auto] means there is no explicit call to
lmroman8-regular etc.? Interesting..
> 
> 
> check the lfg file ...

On that note, there seems to be an inconsistency in the design size
selection:

\setupbodyfont[modern-designsize,12pt]
\starttext
This text is typeset in LMRoman12.\par
{\tfa This text should be typeset in LMRoman12 but LMRoman10
is being used instead.}
\stoptext

If I understand the font selection algorithm well, the font that will
be picked is the first font whose associated size is greater than or
equal to the requested size. If there is no such font the default is
used instead.

So, since in lm.lfg LMRoman12 is associated to 12pt, any text in a
higher size will be typeset using the default LMRoman10.

I understand that the default font should remain what it is since it
used when design sizes are disabled (using the typescript ‘modern’ and
not ‘modern-designsize’).

So, LMRoman12 should probably be associated to the biggest possible
value rather than 12pt (16383pt?).

Does that make sense?

Thanks,
Vincent


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[NTG-context] Re: Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[Hamid,Idris]

Ah, the goodies files.. Got it and thanks for the clarifications.

Best wishes
Idris

--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
On Aug 15, 2023, 10:22 AM -0600, Hans Hagen , wrote:
** Caution: EXTERNAL Sender **

On 8/15/2023 5:33 PM, Hamid,Idris wrote:

so [\s!designsize=\s!auto] means there is no explicit call to lmroman8-regular 
etc.? Interesting..

check the lfg file ...
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[NTG-context] Re: Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[Hans Hagen]

On 8/15/2023 5:33 PM, Hamid,Idris wrote:


so [\s!designsize=\s!auto] means there is no explicit call to lmroman8-regular 
etc.? Interesting..


check the lfg file ...

Hans


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[NTG-context] Re: Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[Hamid,Idris]

On Aug 15, 2023, 8:56 AM -0600, Hans Hagen , wrote:

> afaik mkiv always had modern as default an dnot the designsize
> typescript (after all, we only have math 10pt)

From font-pre.mkiv:

%D By default we load the Computer Modern Roman fonts (but
%D not yet at this moment) and activate the 12pt roman
%D bodyfont.

-)

> well, in type-imp-latinmodern.mkiv i can find 'designsize' ... you're
> not relying on some gpt driven search machine are you?

No just the search files feature in Notepad++ -)

Ok, looking at type-imp-latinmodern.mkiv, under latin-modern-designsize, I see 
references to design weights and styles but not to optical sizes. So no 
lmroman5-regular, lmroman6-regular... lmroman17-regular. There is only 
reference to lmroman10, which is why my initial search came up with no results.

Ah, the abstraction happens here I think:

\definetypeface [\typescriptone] [\s!rm] [\s!serif] [latin-modern-designsize] 
[\s!default] [\s!designsize=\s!auto]

so [\s!designsize=\s!auto] means there is no explicit call to lmroman8-regular 
etc.? Interesting..

Ok, let's try it:

===
\setupbodyfont[modern-designsize]

\startTEXpage[offset=1em]
Test {\tfa Test} {\tfb Test} {\tfc Test} {\tfd Test} {\tfx Test} {\tfxx Test}
\stopTEXpage
===

Now we get

===
mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 4 files: latinmodern-math.otf, 
lmroman10-regular.otf, lmroman12-regular.otf, lmroman8-regular.otf
===

So three optical sizes are implemented. But there should be more, e.g., \tfd 
should use lmroman17-regular etc.

>>> (likely we will go for \enableexperiments[fonts.compact] anyway which is
>>> also more efficient)

>>Ok, that would be very helpful; many thanks.

> it might process your arabic a bit faster

Ah, great. Am looking forward to learning how to 
\enableexperiments[fonts.compact] etc. once it's implemented.

Best wishes
Idris
--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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[NTG-context] Re: Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[Hans Hagen]

On 8/15/2023 4:35 PM, Hamid,Idris wrote:


But for sure ConTeXt used to load lmroman12-regular (or the computer-modern 12 
pt) by default. So things have changed..


afaik mkiv always had modern as default an dnot the designsize 
typescript (after all, we only have math 10pt)



well you can load the design size typescript


Ok, where is that design size typescript? A search for, e.g., lmroman8-regular 
etc. in

texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv

yields no results, so it must be defined at some higher level of abstraction..


well, in type-imp-latinmodern.mkiv i can find 'designsize' ... you're 
not relying on some gpt driven search machine are you?



(likely we will go for \enableexperiments[fonts.compact] anyway which is
also more efficient)


Ok, that would be very helpful; many thanks.

it might process your arabic a bit faster

Hans

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[NTG-context] Re: Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[Hamid,Idris]

On Aug 15, 2023, 8:09 AM -0600, Hans Hagen , wrote:

> yes, but there are also typescript that define the sizes (made more
> sense on low res printers) .. the current defaults have been so for many
> years (so the fact that you didn't notice ...)

Maybe I forgot about it.. I seem to remember a very long time ago some 
experiments with typescripts for computer-modern opticals, before latin modern 
became default (it's all foggy now..)

But for sure ConTeXt used to load lmroman12-regular (or the computer-modern 12 
pt) by default. So things have changed..

> well you can load the design size typescript

Ok, where is that design size typescript? A search for, e.g., lmroman8-regular 
etc. in

texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv

yields no results, so it must be defined at some higher level of abstraction..


> (likely we will go for \enableexperiments[fonts.compact] anyway which is
> also more efficient)

Ok, that would be very helpful; many thanks.

Best wishes
Idris
--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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[NTG-context] Re: Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[Hans Hagen]

On 8/15/2023 3:56 PM, Hamid,Idris wrote:

Dear gang,

It seems that ConTeXt does not currently implement optical scaling for Latin 
Modern -- at least not by default. For example:

===
\startTEXpage[offset=1em]
Test {\tfa Test} {\tfb Test} {\tfc Test} {\tfd Test} {\tfx Test} {\tfxx Test}
\stopTEXpage
===

In the log we have

===
mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 2 files: latinmodern-math.otf, 
lmroman10-regular.otf
===

Is this behavior intentional? The needed sizes are certainly available 
(/texmf/fonts/data/gust/lm).


yes, but there are also typescript that define the sizes (made more 
sense on low res printers) .. the current defaults have been so for many 
years (so the fact that you didn't notice ...)


these sizes are mostly for math and we have a 10pt lm math with built in 
scritp and scriptscript



This issue came up while trying to test/implement something else. Although 
Computer Modern / Latin Modern is perhaps hardly popular for contemporary 
publication work, a full implementation of the full palette of optical sizes is 
still useful as a benchmark, etc.

well you can load the design size typescript

(likely we will go for \enableexperiments[fonts.compact] anyway which is 
also more efficient)


Hans

-
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   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-

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[NTG-context] Optical scaling in Latin Modern

[Hamid,Idris]

Dear gang,

It seems that ConTeXt does not currently implement optical scaling for Latin 
Modern -- at least not by default. For example:

===
\startTEXpage[offset=1em]
Test {\tfa Test} {\tfb Test} {\tfc Test} {\tfd Test} {\tfx Test} {\tfxx Test}
\stopTEXpage
===

In the log we have

===
mkiv lua stats  > loaded fonts: 2 files: latinmodern-math.otf, 
lmroman10-regular.otf
===

Is this behavior intentional? The needed sizes are certainly available 
(/texmf/fonts/data/gust/lm).

This issue came up while trying to test/implement something else. Although 
Computer Modern / Latin Modern is perhaps hardly popular for contemporary 
publication work, a full implementation of the full palette of optical sizes is 
still useful as a benchmark, etc.

Best wishes
Idris

--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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Re: [NTG-context] troubles with latin modern and mutool

[Damien Thiriet]

Hi Pablo, Hi list,

\filterpages made the job and saved me a lot of nerves, another ConTeXt
great command!

Many thanks for the tips,


Damien Thiriet

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Re: [NTG-context] troubles with latin modern and mutool

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 3/23/20 12:12 PM, Damien Thiriet wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am facing some unexpected troubles while splitting my lessons to send
> them to my pupils.
> My idea was to use mutool draw to extract only the pages of my
> presentations relevant to my lesson of the day.
> Unfortunately, when I do for example
>
> mutool draw -o file-beginning.pdf file.pdf 2,5
> This extracts pages 2 to 5
> I got those warnings
>
> warning: cannot create ToUnicode mapping for GWKFXT+LMSans10-Regular

Hi Damien,

I don’t get these warnings with the following sample:

\setupbodyfont[sans]
\starttext
\dorecurse{5}{%
\recurselevel\footnote{\recurselevel}\page}
\stoptext

I use LuaTeX 2.05 20200229 + ConTeXt MkIV 2020.03.10 14:52, but I
remember that I built mupdf from git sources (so my version is later
than 1.16.1 [to be released yet]).

> The resulting pdf is perfectly readable on my computer, but some pupils
> claimed they received garbage encoding and an unreadable pdf (on OSX at
> least).
> This might be a mutool bug, so I don't send any MWE.
>
> Do you know any alternative to mutool draw to send clean pdf from pages
> of my presentations?

PDFtk, Multivalent or ConTeXt itself (\filterpages or something similar).

I hope it helps,

Pablo
--
http://www.ousia.tk
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[NTG-context] troubles with latin modern and mutool

[Damien Thiriet]

Hello,

I am facing some unexpected troubles while splitting my lessons to send
them to my pupils.
My idea was to use mutool draw to extract only the pages of my
presentations relevant to my lesson of the day.
Unfortunately, when I do for example

mutool draw -o file-beginning.pdf file.pdf 2,5
This extracts pages 2 to 5 
I got those warnings

warning: cannot create ToUnicode mapping for GWKFXT+LMSans10-Regular

The resulting pdf is perfectly readable on my computer, but some pupils
claimed they received garbage encoding and an unreadable pdf (on OSX at
least).
This might be a mutool bug, so I don't send any MWE.

Do you know any alternative to mutool draw to send clean pdf from pages
of my presentations?
Regards,

Damien Thiriet 

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[NTG-context] troubles with latin modern and mutool

[Damien Thiriet]

As an addition to my mail. 
I tried poppler pdfseparate and pdfunite,
but the resolution is too high and my extract is much eavier than the
original file.

As an alternative,
Is there a way to compile just a part of a context file, keeping the
whole toc? My college pupils will get lost if my 3) is changed to a 1)
(don't whether this is only typicall for French pupils).

Regards,

Damien Thiriet

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[NTG-context] Location of primes and strange latin modern font

[Akira Kakuto]

Will the primes also get fixed? In the latest standalone (I downloaded
it minutes ago), I get the attached result running the same test file.


It seems that the primes are not yet fixed in
mtx-context | current version: 2017.05.14 19:09

It requires, for example:

\starttext
Compare ${u_p}\hskip-.5em''$ and $u''_{\hskip-.63em p}$ with $u''$
\stoptext

Best,
Akira

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Re: [NTG-context] Location of primes and strange latin modern font

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> On 5/11/2017 8:35 PM, Mathias Schickel wrote:
>>>
>>> 2) The math font looks strange (or should I say different) in the
>>> ConTeXt example. (Wrong size, scaled?)
>>
>>
>> Yeah, this seems to be a bug in the current version. I have observed that,
>> too. Hans did recently add (due to my suggestion, so thanks again, Hans,
>> even if this seems to have caused some trouble) support for optical sizes in
>> fallbacks and I suppose the bug has been introduced there. So at present the
>> bug occurs that ConTeXt uses the smallest optical size for every symbol
>> (independent of the size). This results in strange looking mathematics.
>> Maybe you can fix this, Hans?
>
>
> Yes, in that process i swapped text and scriptscipt sizes but it has been
> fixed.
>
> -
>   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
>
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Hans, thanks for the fix with the sizes in math.

Will the primes also get fixed? In the latest standalone (I downloaded
it minutes ago), I get the attached result running the same test file.

/Mikael

PS Sorry if I'm too quick, if you are in the progress of solving this.
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Re: [NTG-context] Location of primes and strange latin modern font

[Hans Hagen]

On 5/11/2017 8:35 PM, Mathias Schickel wrote:

2) The math font looks strange (or should I say different) in the
ConTeXt example. (Wrong size, scaled?)


Yeah, this seems to be a bug in the current version. I have observed that, too. 
Hans did recently add (due to my suggestion, so thanks again, Hans, even if 
this seems to have caused some trouble) support for optical sizes in fallbacks 
and I suppose the bug has been introduced there. So at present the bug occurs 
that ConTeXt uses the smallest optical size for every symbol (independent of 
the size). This results in strange looking mathematics. Maybe you can fix this, 
Hans?


Yes, in that process i swapped text and scriptscipt sizes but it has 
been fixed.


-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] Location of primes and strange latin modern font

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 8:35 PM, Mathias Schickel
<m...@fa.uni-tuebingen.de> wrote:
>> 2) The math font looks strange (or should I say different) in the
>> ConTeXt example. (Wrong size, scaled?)
>
> Yeah, this seems to be a bug in the current version. I have observed that, 
> too. Hans did recently add (due to my suggestion, so thanks again, Hans, even 
> if this seems to have caused some trouble) support for optical sizes in 
> fallbacks and I suppose the bug has been introduced there. So at present the 
> bug occurs that ConTeXt uses the smallest optical size for every symbol 
> (independent of the size). This results in strange looking mathematics. Maybe 
> you can fix this, Hans?
>
> -Mathias
>
>
>> Am 11.05.2017 um 18:51 schrieb Mikael P. Sundqvist <mic...@gmail.com>:
>>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> I posted this question on stack exchange
>> (https://tex.stackexchange.com/q/369226/52406), and got the suggestion
>> that it might be a bug, and therefore I post it here as well:
>>
>> I have a problem with typesetting derivatives (and latin modern) in
>> ConTeXt in latest standalone.
>>
>> Minimal example:
>>
>> \starttext
>> Compare $u_p''$ and $u''_p$ with $u''$
>> \stoptext
>>
>> Please see the attached image for the output (here I have also
>> included the corresponding output, compiling a similar simple document
>> in LaTeX, where things look as I expect.)
>>
>> Basically, I have two questions:
>>
>> 1) How should I write derivatives (say second derivatives) in ConTeXt?
>> I think that the primes are too far away from each other. In
>> particular when the subscript $p$ is there (the first formula).
>>
>> 2) The math font looks strange (or should I say different) in the
>> ConTeXt example. (Wrong size, scaled?)
>>
>> For a while I thought that the second problem might be because I
>> define no font. But the following example gives a similar result.
>>
>> \definefontfamily[myface][rm][Latin Modern Roman]
>> \definefontfamily[myface][mm][Latin Modern Math]
>>
>> \setupbodyfont[myface]
>>
>> \starttext
>> Compare $u_p''$ and $u''_p$ with $u''$
>> \stoptext
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> /Mikael
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Thank you Mathias for your answer! That is most likely the problem!
Then we can only wait for Hans to put a new beta out. Hans, will that
happen soon?

Also, Hans, what is the official ConTeXt-way to write u with double
prime and subscript p, as in the example? Should both $u_p''$ and
$u''_p$ work?

Best regards, Mikael
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Re: [NTG-context] Location of primes and strange latin modern font

[Mathias Schickel]

> 2) The math font looks strange (or should I say different) in the
> ConTeXt example. (Wrong size, scaled?)

Yeah, this seems to be a bug in the current version. I have observed that, too. 
Hans did recently add (due to my suggestion, so thanks again, Hans, even if 
this seems to have caused some trouble) support for optical sizes in fallbacks 
and I suppose the bug has been introduced there. So at present the bug occurs 
that ConTeXt uses the smallest optical size for every symbol (independent of 
the size). This results in strange looking mathematics. Maybe you can fix this, 
Hans?

-Mathias


> Am 11.05.2017 um 18:51 schrieb Mikael P. Sundqvist <mic...@gmail.com>:
> 
> Dear list,
> 
> I posted this question on stack exchange
> (https://tex.stackexchange.com/q/369226/52406), and got the suggestion
> that it might be a bug, and therefore I post it here as well:
> 
> I have a problem with typesetting derivatives (and latin modern) in
> ConTeXt in latest standalone.
> 
> Minimal example:
> 
> \starttext
> Compare $u_p''$ and $u''_p$ with $u''$
> \stoptext
> 
> Please see the attached image for the output (here I have also
> included the corresponding output, compiling a similar simple document
> in LaTeX, where things look as I expect.)
> 
> Basically, I have two questions:
> 
> 1) How should I write derivatives (say second derivatives) in ConTeXt?
> I think that the primes are too far away from each other. In
> particular when the subscript $p$ is there (the first formula).
> 
> 2) The math font looks strange (or should I say different) in the
> ConTeXt example. (Wrong size, scaled?)
> 
> For a while I thought that the second problem might be because I
> define no font. But the following example gives a similar result.
> 
> \definefontfamily[myface][rm][Latin Modern Roman]
> \definefontfamily[myface][mm][Latin Modern Math]
> 
> \setupbodyfont[myface]
> 
> \starttext
> Compare $u_p''$ and $u''_p$ with $u''$
> \stoptext
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> /Mikael
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[NTG-context] Location of primes and strange latin modern font

[Mikael P. Sundqvist]

Dear list,

I posted this question on stack exchange
(https://tex.stackexchange.com/q/369226/52406), and got the suggestion
that it might be a bug, and therefore I post it here as well:

I have a problem with typesetting derivatives (and latin modern) in
ConTeXt in latest standalone.

Minimal example:

\starttext
Compare $u_p''$ and $u''_p$ with $u''$
\stoptext

Please see the attached image for the output (here I have also
included the corresponding output, compiling a similar simple document
in LaTeX, where things look as I expect.)

Basically, I have two questions:

1) How should I write derivatives (say second derivatives) in ConTeXt?
I think that the primes are too far away from each other. In
particular when the subscript $p$ is there (the first formula).

2) The math font looks strange (or should I say different) in the
ConTeXt example. (Wrong size, scaled?)

For a while I thought that the second problem might be because I
define no font. But the following example gives a similar result.

\definefontfamily[myface][rm][Latin Modern Roman]
\definefontfamily[myface][mm][Latin Modern Math]

\setupbodyfont[myface]

\starttext
Compare $u_p''$ and $u''_p$ with $u''$
\stoptext

Any ideas?

/Mikael
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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

> On 17 Jun 2016, at 06:20, Alan BRASLAU  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 01:02:48 +0200
> Hans Åberg  wrote:
> 
>> The idea is avoiding clashes between variables and constants, like
>> this:
>> 
>> \starttext
>> 
>> \setupmathematics[default=normal]
>> 
>> $푒 = ∑_{푖=1}^∞ e^{i-푖}$
>> 
>> \setupmathematics[default=italic]
>> 
>> $푒 = ∑_{푖=1}^∞ e^{i-푖}$
> 
> Very, very poor mathematical style...
> 
> If you really want to use a variable "e", this would call for the use
> of the function \exp() to be readable.

Unicode has added characters to enable such writing. Also, \exp is already 
defined to “exp”, for example for the exponential map in differential geometry:
\startformula
  \exp_x: M_x → M
\stopformula

Here, the “:” expands in original TeX as a ratio operator, but Unicode has a 
special symbol for that, ∶ RATIO U+2236.


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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Alan BRASLAU]

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 01:02:48 +0200
Hans Åberg  wrote:

> The idea is avoiding clashes between variables and constants, like
> this:
> 
> \starttext
> 
> \setupmathematics[default=normal]
> 
> $푒 = ∑_{푖=1}^∞ e^{i-푖}$
> 
> \setupmathematics[default=italic]
> 
> $푒 = ∑_{푖=1}^∞ e^{i-푖}$

Very, very poor mathematical style...

If you really want to use a variable "e", this would call for the use
of the function \exp() to be readable.

Alan
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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

> On 16 Jun 2016, at 23:48, Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl> wrote:
> 
> On 6/16/2016 9:15 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:

>> There were no responses from the consortium here, so it means that if one 
>> should stick to the Unicode model, where the upright styles are unified with 
>> the Basic Latin and Greek groups, \setupmathematics should have options 
>> added like:
>>  lcletters=[normal|italic], ucletters=[normal|italic]

> (i see no reason for different treatment for lc and uc)

No, there is no reason - I just got it from math-inl.mkiv.

> what is wrong with
> 
> \starttext
> 
> \setupmathematics[default=normal]
> 
> $a = b$
> 
> \setupmathematics[default=italic]
> 
> $a = \tf b$
> 
> \stoptext

That is fine - it is not mentioned on the page
  http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Command/setupmathematics

The idea is avoiding clashes between variables and constants, like this:

\starttext

\setupmathematics[default=normal]

$푒 = ∑_{푖=1}^∞ e^{i-푖}$

\setupmathematics[default=italic]

$푒 = ∑_{푖=1}^∞ e^{i-푖}$

\stoptext

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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Hagen]

On 6/16/2016 9:15 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:



On 15 May 2016, at 22:06, Hans Åberg <haber...@telia.com> wrote:


On 15 May 2016, at 20:42, Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl> wrote:

On 5/15/2016 8:31 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:



also, the lack of an upright alphabet in unicode will always make some 'x' in 
the input either math of text so one also needs to indicate where math starts 
and ends


As far as Unicode is concerned, the ASCII and Greeks ranges are the upright 
ones. But those ranges will be used for math italic as long as there are no 
efficient input methods. Designing ones own keyboard map is a chore with so 
many math styles.


well, law, week i heard about emoticons in different colors as well as gender 
so maybe some day we will have a math upright alphabet to distinguish it from 
regular latin


Doubt it, but I am checking it out:
http://unicode.org/pipermail/unicode/2016-May/003632.html


There were no responses from the consortium here, so it means that if one 
should stick to the Unicode model, where the upright styles are unified with 
the Basic Latin and Greek groups, \setupmathematics should have options added 
like:
  lcletters=[normal|italic], ucletters=[normal|italic]


what is wrong with

\starttext

\setupmathematics[default=normal]

$a = b$

\setupmathematics[default=italic]

$a = \tf b$

\stoptext

(i see no reason for different treatment for lc and uc)


-
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  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

> On 15 May 2016, at 22:06, Hans Åberg <haber...@telia.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 15 May 2016, at 20:42, Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl> wrote:
>> 
>> On 5/15/2016 8:31 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:

>>>> also, the lack of an upright alphabet in unicode will always make some 'x' 
>>>> in the input either math of text so one also needs to indicate where math 
>>>> starts and ends
>>> 
>>> As far as Unicode is concerned, the ASCII and Greeks ranges are the upright 
>>> ones. But those ranges will be used for math italic as long as there are no 
>>> efficient input methods. Designing ones own keyboard map is a chore with so 
>>> many math styles.
>> 
>> well, law, week i heard about emoticons in different colors as well as 
>> gender so maybe some day we will have a math upright alphabet to distinguish 
>> it from regular latin
> 
> Doubt it, but I am checking it out:
> http://unicode.org/pipermail/unicode/2016-May/003632.html

There were no responses from the consortium here, so it means that if one 
should stick to the Unicode model, where the upright styles are unified with 
the Basic Latin and Greek groups, \setupmathematics should have options added 
like:
  lcletters=[normal|italic], ucletters=[normal|italic]


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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

> On 16 May 2016, at 11:10, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> 
> On 5/16/2016 10:59 AM, Hans Åberg wrote:

>> The TeX syntax is too loose to do input that is close to the input. For 
>> example, in math, if properly parsed, the "{…}” can often be replaced by the 
>> normal “(…)”, and the the engine can decide to remove them when unnecessary, 
>> as in say e^(x+y).
> 
> asciimath tries to do that (is supported in context) but it has to be used 
> very structured in order to not run into its weird aspects

I worked on a theorem proof assistant, which then checks that the math is 
correct, but it then turned out complicated to write TeX code.


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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Hagen]

On 5/16/2016 10:59 AM, Hans Åberg wrote:



On 16 May 2016, at 10:48, Hans Hagen  wrote:



interesting tex was flexible enough to survive many decades


Other survivors are C, C++, Scheme. With TeX, change may start as with Lua, 
only some better syntax for text input.


that always depend on the content; for complex docs tex or xml is ok (and best)


The TeX syntax is too loose to do input that is close to the input. For example, in 
math, if properly parsed, the "{…}” can often be replaced by the normal “(…)”, 
and the the engine can decide to remove them when unnecessary, as in say e^(x+y).


asciimath tries to do that (is supported in context) but it has to be 
used very structured in order to not run into its weird aspects



So such issues lead towards to the design of a new language, rather than 
relying on an already existing.


and then the not foreseen limitations in that language and ugly extensions 
spoil it ... (btw, the nice thing about lua is that it's so stable)


One might focus on different parts communicating via the semantics of the 
underlying engine. Then with extensions, it is not necessary to know the syntax 
of other additions when writing the code. This is roughly how pure math works, 
and also the point extensible computer languages to get stuck on. And this is 
alos how Lua was added ro TeX.





--

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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

> On 16 May 2016, at 10:48, Hans Hagen  wrote:

>>> interesting tex was flexible enough to survive many decades
>> 
>> Other survivors are C, C++, Scheme. With TeX, change may start as with Lua, 
>> only some better syntax for text input.
> 
> that always depend on the content; for complex docs tex or xml is ok (and 
> best)

The TeX syntax is too loose to do input that is close to the input. For 
example, in math, if properly parsed, the "{…}” can often be replaced by the 
normal “(…)”, and the the engine can decide to remove them when unnecessary, as 
in say e^(x+y).

>> So such issues lead towards to the design of a new language, rather than 
>> relying on an already existing.
> 
> and then the not foreseen limitations in that language and ugly extensions 
> spoil it ... (btw, the nice thing about lua is that it's so stable)

One might focus on different parts communicating via the semantics of the 
underlying engine. Then with extensions, it is not necessary to know the syntax 
of other additions when writing the code. This is roughly how pure math works, 
and also the point extensible computer languages to get stuck on. And this is 
alos how Lua was added ro TeX.


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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Hagen]

On 5/16/2016 10:27 AM, Hans Åberg wrote:



On 16 May 2016, at 01:00, Hans Hagen  wrote:

On 5/15/2016 11:55 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:



On 15 May 2016, at 23:18, Hans Hagen  wrote:


but eventually typesetting will become a niche and end up in the arts but i 
will probably not live long enough to see that happen


From the point of computer language design, TeX is not very good. One of the 
pitfalls of macro programming is that it gives the impression of lambda 
calculus efficiency without having it so one ends up spending a lot of time 
figuring out trivialities, which is why eventually was added, I gather.


it's not that bad .. the tex language has a certain charm that one needs to get 
accustomed to (as does metapost) ... and, combined with lua it's even more fun


Ideally, there should have been only one language with lambda capacity, and 
better syntax, though it is a problem figuring out what it might be.


just look at how many programming languages are there and will be there (no 
surprise with billions of people and taste)

you see the same with markup languages: people want simple, then need more and 
so simple becomes more and when not well thought about beforehand simple then 
becomes ugly and it all starts anew


Indeed computer tend to have natural life cycles, after they have matured, 
further development becomes difficult.


interesting tex was flexible enough to survive many decades


Other survivors are C, C++, Scheme. With TeX, change may start as with Lua, 
only some better syntax for text input.


that always depend on the content; for complex docs tex or xml is ok 
(and best)



I experimented a bit with giving Guile a C++ API, and then then there is a 
problem with that that C++ is statically typed whereas Guile is dynamic. For 
example, Guile does not distinguish statically between different types of 
numbers: integers, rationals, etc, so the proper way from the point of C++ is 
to only have open number type. But static typing is important in optimization.

And giving implement traditional function syntax on top of Guile does not work 
well, because (f, x_1, …, x_k) does not correspond semantically exactly to 
f(x_1, …, x_n). And there is a problem with the Scheme strict evaluation.

So such issues lead towards to the design of a new language, rather than 
relying on an already existing.


and then the not foreseen limitations in that language and ugly 
extensions spoil it ... (btw, the nice thing about lua is that it's so 
stable)


Hans

-
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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

> On 16 May 2016, at 01:00, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> 
> On 5/15/2016 11:55 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:
>> 
>>> On 15 May 2016, at 23:18, Hans Hagen  wrote:
>>> 
> but eventually typesetting will become a niche and end up in the arts but 
> i will probably not live long enough to see that happen
 
 From the point of computer language design, TeX is not very good. One of 
 the pitfalls of macro programming is that it gives the impression of 
 lambda calculus efficiency without having it so one ends up spending a lot 
 of time figuring out trivialities, which is why eventually was added, I 
 gather.
>>> 
>>> it's not that bad .. the tex language has a certain charm that one needs to 
>>> get accustomed to (as does metapost) ... and, combined with lua it's even 
>>> more fun
>> 
>> Ideally, there should have been only one language with lambda capacity, and 
>> better syntax, though it is a problem figuring out what it might be.
> 
> just look at how many programming languages are there and will be there (no 
> surprise with billions of people and taste)
> 
> you see the same with markup languages: people want simple, then need more 
> and so simple becomes more and when not well thought about beforehand simple 
> then becomes ugly and it all starts anew

Indeed computer tend to have natural life cycles, after they have matured, 
further development becomes difficult.

> interesting tex was flexible enough to survive many decades

Other survivors are C, C++, Scheme. With TeX, change may start as with Lua, 
only some better syntax for text input.

I experimented a bit with giving Guile a C++ API, and then then there is a 
problem with that that C++ is statically typed whereas Guile is dynamic. For 
example, Guile does not distinguish statically between different types of 
numbers: integers, rationals, etc, so the proper way from the point of C++ is 
to only have open number type. But static typing is important in optimization.

And giving implement traditional function syntax on top of Guile does not work 
well, because (f, x_1, …, x_k) does not correspond semantically exactly to 
f(x_1, …, x_n). And there is a problem with the Scheme strict evaluation.

So such issues lead towards to the design of a new language, rather than 
relying on an already existing.


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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

> On 15 May 2016, at 23:18, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> 
>>> but eventually typesetting will become a niche and end up in the arts but i 
>>> will probably not live long enough to see that happen
>> 
>> From the point of computer language design, TeX is not very good. One of the 
>> pitfalls of macro programming is that it gives the impression of lambda 
>> calculus efficiency without having it so one ends up spending a lot of time 
>> figuring out trivialities, which is why eventually was added, I gather.
> 
> it's not that bad .. the tex language has a certain charm that one needs to 
> get accustomed to (as does metapost) ... and, combined with lua it's even 
> more fun

Ideally, there should have been only one language with lambda capacity, and 
better syntax, though it is a problem figuring out what it might be.



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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Hagen]

On 5/15/2016 10:06 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:



On 15 May 2016, at 20:42, Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl> wrote:

On 5/15/2016 8:31 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:


there will always be some kind of escape


Hopefully from TeX as well. :-)


you can use ms word (which has tex like math but with a gui)


That falls far short, though there mathematicians using that too, thinking TeX 
has too a steep learning curve. Perhaps there is an open source alternative.


but eventually typesetting will become a niche and end up in the arts but i 
will probably not live long enough to see that happen


From the point of computer language design, TeX is not very good. One of the 
pitfalls of macro programming is that it gives the impression of lambda 
calculus efficiency without having it so one ends up spending a lot of time 
figuring out trivialities, which is why eventually was added, I gather.


it's not that bad .. the tex language has a certain charm that one needs 
to get accustomed to (as does metapost) ... and, combined with lua it's 
even more fun



also, the lack of an upright alphabet in unicode will always make some 'x' in 
the input either math of text so one also needs to indicate where math starts 
and ends


As far as Unicode is concerned, the ASCII and Greeks ranges are the upright 
ones. But those ranges will be used for math italic as long as there are no 
efficient input methods. Designing ones own keyboard map is a chore with so 
many math styles.


well, law, week i heard about emoticons in different colors as well as gender 
so maybe some day we will have a math upright alphabet to distinguish it from 
regular latin


Doubt it, but I am checking it out:
http://unicode.org/pipermail/unicode/2016-May/003632.html



--

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

> On 15 May 2016, at 20:42, Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl> wrote:
> 
> On 5/15/2016 8:31 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:
> 
>>> there will always be some kind of escape
>> 
>> Hopefully from TeX as well. :-)
> 
> you can use ms word (which has tex like math but with a gui)

That falls far short, though there mathematicians using that too, thinking TeX 
has too a steep learning curve. Perhaps there is an open source alternative.

> but eventually typesetting will become a niche and end up in the arts but i 
> will probably not live long enough to see that happen

From the point of computer language design, TeX is not very good. One of the 
pitfalls of macro programming is that it gives the impression of lambda 
calculus efficiency without having it so one ends up spending a lot of time 
figuring out trivialities, which is why eventually was added, I gather.

>>> also, the lack of an upright alphabet in unicode will always make some 'x' 
>>> in the input either math of text so one also needs to indicate where math 
>>> starts and ends
>> 
>> As far as Unicode is concerned, the ASCII and Greeks ranges are the upright 
>> ones. But those ranges will be used for math italic as long as there are no 
>> efficient input methods. Designing ones own keyboard map is a chore with so 
>> many math styles.
> 
> well, law, week i heard about emoticons in different colors as well as gender 
> so maybe some day we will have a math upright alphabet to distinguish it from 
> regular latin

Doubt it, but I am checking it out:
http://unicode.org/pipermail/unicode/2016-May/003632.html
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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Hagen]

On 5/15/2016 8:31 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:


there will always be some kind of escape


Hopefully from TeX as well. :-)


you can use ms word (which has tex like math but with a gui) but 
eventually typesetting will become a niche and end up in the arts but i 
will probably not live long enough to see that happen



also, the lack of an upright alphabet in unicode will always make some 'x' in 
the input either math of text so one also needs to indicate where math starts 
and ends


As far as Unicode is concerned, the ASCII and Greeks ranges are the upright 
ones. But those ranges will be used for math italic as long as there are no 
efficient input methods. Designing ones own keyboard map is a chore with so 
many math styles.


well, law, week i heard about emoticons in different colors as well as 
gender so maybe some day we will have a math upright alphabet to 
distinguish it from regular latin


Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

> On 15 May 2016, at 20:06, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> 
> On 5/15/2016 7:28 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:

>>> What do you mean with change by hand ... isn't that what context can do for 
>>> you? Operate on all those axes ... (\tf is the upright one). There are 
>>> extensive mapping mechanisms so best user them.
>> 
>> The idea is to follow Unicode math styles in the input, so the serif upright 
>> styles must be in the ASCII range—there are no special math styles for 
>> those. Right now, in TeX code, one normally uses the in the ASCII range for 
>> math italic. So all variables, now in the ASCII range must be changed to 
>> Unicode math italic in order to not conflict with the upright ones put into 
>> the ASCII range, unless one does something else: Say using the math 
>> sans-serif upright for the upright. But that isn’t right either, as someone, 
>> now that both serif and sans-serif math styles are available, may want to 
>> use them to indicate semantically different math objects.
> 
> well, there is no
> 
> MATHEMATICAL UPRIGHT SMALL X
> 
> so till then we have to deal with two kinds of input and an explicit document 
> default

Indeed, and users are conservative, so it might be forever. But if efficient 
input methods come along, then using the ASCII and Greek ranges for upright 
math style, apparently the Unicode intent, might be useful.


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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

> On 15 May 2016, at 19:59, Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl> wrote:
> 
> On 5/15/2016 7:42 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:
> 
>>> (where of course we default to default=italic)
>> 
>> Yes, but perhaps another name than “default”.
> 
> well, it is \mathdefault that is used and then gets set ... so default suits 
> well (something latin in the name just sounds weird)

Well, you are the man.

>>> i have no problem adding that (basically one can even go as far as 
>>> disabling every mapping assuming pure unicode input but i guess that users 
>>> then would still ask for \mathfoo commands)
>> 
>> I think it is simplest to just align with Unicode.
> 
> i guess many math users don't agree with you as tex lingua and behaviour is 
> kind of default ... also, it will take a while before wordprocessors provide 
> the right visual clues

I just mean, add such extras as the request com along, if you so like. Using 
Unicode is tricky, to it need to evolve for some time.

>>> and of course we need more math fonts that have monospace (one is in the 
>>> making in the gyre project)
>> 
>> It is available in the STIX fonts. These, and the sans-serif math styles are 
>> added in error of the idea of expressing math semantics, as pure math uses 
>> serifs, and applied sciences may use sans-serif. In computer code, in the 
>> past, like the 1980s, one did not care about monospace in books, and there 
>> is no semantic difference between styles. Keywords might for example be 
>> displayed i bold, but there is not semantic difference to when they are not.
> 
> pure math is fuzzy ... many domains and habits

Indeed, formally there are no standards, only traditions and individual 
preferences.

>> Perhaps TeX commands might use the monospace math styles. Then the backslash 
>> “\” would not be needed. But right now, input would be cumbersome.
> 
> there will always be some kind of escape

Hopefully from TeX as well. :-)

> also, the lack of an upright alphabet in unicode will always make some 'x' in 
> the input either math of text so one also needs to indicate where math starts 
> and ends

As far as Unicode is concerned, the ASCII and Greeks ranges are the upright 
ones. But those ranges will be used for math italic as long as there are no 
efficient input methods. Designing ones own keyboard map is a chore with so 
many math styles.


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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Hagen]

On 5/15/2016 7:28 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:



On 15 May 2016, at 19:12, Hans Hagen  wrote:

On 5/15/2016 6:36 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:



On 15 May 2016, at 16:44, Wolfgang Schuster  wrote:

\appendtoks \rm \to \everymathematics


Here is another variation: using the sans-serif math styles, combining with the 
suggestion in the “Nolimits” thread. It would save the effort having to change 
all variables into italics by hand, but otherwise, just a hack. (It seems that 
\diff is defined, though I haven’t found a reference for it.)

\setupbodyfont[xits,10pt]

\appendtoks
 \catcode`햽=\activecatcode
 \letcharcode `햽 \diff
\to \everymathematics

\startformula
 \startalign
   I &= ∫_S d(x)\, 햽 x \NR
   I &= ∫_S d(x)\, \diff x \NR
   I &= ∫_S d(x)\, {\mathupright d} x \NR
 \stopalign
\stopformula


What do you mean with change by hand ... isn't that what context can do for 
you? Operate on all those axes ... (\tf is the upright one). There are 
extensive mapping mechanisms so best user them.


The idea is to follow Unicode math styles in the input, so the serif upright 
styles must be in the ASCII range—there are no special math styles for those. 
Right now, in TeX code, one normally uses the in the ASCII range for math 
italic. So all variables, now in the ASCII range must be changed to Unicode 
math italic in order to not conflict with the upright ones put into the ASCII 
range, unless one does something else: Say using the math sans-serif upright 
for the upright. But that isn’t right either, as someone, now that both serif 
and sans-serif math styles are available, may want to use them to indicate 
semantically different math objects.


well, there is no

MATHEMATICAL UPRIGHT SMALL X

so till then we have to deal with two kinds of input and an explicit 
document default


-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Hagen]

On 5/15/2016 7:42 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:


(where of course we default to default=italic)


Yes, but perhaps another name than “default”.


well, it is \mathdefault that is used and then gets set ... so default 
suits well (something latin in the name just sounds weird)



i have no problem adding that (basically one can even go as far as disabling 
every mapping assuming pure unicode input but i guess that users then would 
still ask for \mathfoo commands)


I think it is simplest to just align with Unicode.


i guess many math users don't agree with you as tex lingua and behaviour 
is kind of default ... also, it will take a while before wordprocessors 
provide the right visual clues



and of course we need more math fonts that have monospace (one is in the making 
in the gyre project)


It is available in the STIX fonts. These, and the sans-serif math styles are 
added in error of the idea of expressing math semantics, as pure math uses 
serifs, and applied sciences may use sans-serif. In computer code, in the past, 
like the 1980s, one did not care about monospace in books, and there is no 
semantic difference between styles. Keywords might for example be displayed i 
bold, but there is not semantic difference to when they are not.


pure math is fuzzy ... many domains and habits


Perhaps TeX commands might use the monospace math styles. Then the backslash 
“\” would not be needed. But right now, input would be cumbersome.


there will always be some kind of escape

also, the lack of an upright alphabet in unicode will always make some 
'x' in the input either math of text so one also needs to indicate where 
math starts and ends


Hans

-
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  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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-
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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

> On 15 May 2016, at 15:37, Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl> wrote:
> 
> On 5/14/2016 7:11 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:
>> In order to align with Unicode, \setupmathematics might have Latin shape 
>> options, as the Greek ‘lcgreek’ and ‘ucgreek', say ‘lclatin' and ‘uclatin', 
>> both defaulting to ’italic’. Unicode added the Latin italic symbols to the 
>> Math Alphanumeric Symbols range, so the upright letters are inaccessible 
>> when italic is assigned to the Basic Latin (ASCII) range.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean. One can use \mathupright if needed. We support 
> all the alphabets and these are independent of the basic latin range.

Traditionally constants are set in upright and variables in italic. So 
constants like “log” etc., are set in upright. It is not used rigorously 
because of past typographical limitations, but one might in principle do that, 
cf. the example below, where the integral differential “d” is set in upright to 
disambiguate relative the function named “d”.

When Unicode added math styles, it added italics, expecting the ASCII range to 
be upright, which would be normal if using a text editor that does not 
translate math into italics. But the TeX legacy is the opposite.


\setupbodyfont[xits,10pt]

\startformula
  \startalign
I &= ∫_S d(x)\, dx \NR
I &= ∫_S 푑(x)\, dx \NR
I &= ∫_S d(x)\, \mathupright{d} x \NR
I &= ∫_S 푑(x)\, \mathupright{d} x \NR
  \stopalign
\stopformula



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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

> On 15 May 2016, at 19:08, Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl> wrote:
> 
> On 5/15/2016 4:28 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:
>> 
>>> On 15 May 2016, at 15:37, Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 5/14/2016 7:11 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:
>>>> In order to align with Unicode, \setupmathematics might have Latin shape 
>>>> options, as the Greek ‘lcgreek’ and ‘ucgreek', say ‘lclatin' and 
>>>> ‘uclatin', both defaulting to ’italic’. Unicode added the Latin italic 
>>>> symbols to the Math Alphanumeric Symbols range, so the upright letters are 
>>>> inaccessible when italic is assigned to the Basic Latin (ASCII) range.
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure what you mean. One can use \mathupright if needed. We support 
>>> all the alphabets and these are independent of the basic latin range.
>> 
>> Traditionally constants are set in upright and variables in italic. So 
>> constants like “log” etc., are set in upright. It is not used rigorously 
>> because of past typographical limitations, but one might in principle do 
>> that, cf. the example below, where the integral differential “d” is set in 
>> upright to disambiguate relative the function named “d”.
>> 
>> When Unicode added math styles, it added italics, expecting the ASCII range 
>> to be upright, which would be normal if using a text editor that does not 
>> translate math into italics. But the TeX legacy is the opposite.
>> 
>> 
>> \setupbodyfont[xits,10pt]
>> 
>> \startformula
>> \startalign
>>   I &= ∫_S d(x)\, dx \NR
>>   I &= ∫_S 푑(x)\, dx \NR
>>   I &= ∫_S d(x)\, \mathupright{d} x \NR
>>   I &= ∫_S 푑(x)\, \mathupright{d} x \NR
>> \stopalign
>> \stopformula
> 
> well, i guess unicode assumed messing with math input characters anyway 
> (given that some alphabets have holes) and a normal upright alphabet would 
> have made sense (after all emojs get added by the dozen every time and there 
> is no end at that so why on math)

I do not know why it wasn’t added, but it is te same with the Greek letters, 
for which there are special options.

Another example is the bold italic, that in the past wasn’t available much in 
typography, so one substituted the bold upright. But both are now available in 
Unicode, so it would not pose the same problem.

> anyway, so you want no mapping then, so this means something like
> 
> \unprotect
>\let\mathitalic\mathdefault
>\appendtoks
>\edef\p_default{\mathematicsparameter\c!default}%
>\ifx\p_default\v!normal
>  \let\mathdefault\mathupright
>\else
>  \let\mathdefault\mathitalic
>\fi
>\to \everysetupmathematics
> \protect
> 
> \setupmathematics[default=normal]
> 
> (where of course we default to default=italic)

Yes, but perhaps another name than “default”.

> i have no problem adding that (basically one can even go as far as disabling 
> every mapping assuming pure unicode input but i guess that users then would 
> still ask for \mathfoo commands)

I think it is simplest to just align with Unicode.

> and of course we need more math fonts that have monospace (one is in the 
> making in the gyre project)

It is available in the STIX fonts. These, and the sans-serif math styles are 
added in error of the idea of expressing math semantics, as pure math uses 
serifs, and applied sciences may use sans-serif. In computer code, in the past, 
like the 1980s, one did not care about monospace in books, and there is no 
semantic difference between styles. Keywords might for example be displayed i 
bold, but there is not semantic difference to when they are not.

Perhaps TeX commands might use the monospace math styles. Then the backslash 
“\” would not be needed. But right now, input would be cumbersome.



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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

> On 15 May 2016, at 19:12, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> 
> On 5/15/2016 6:36 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:
>> 
>>> On 15 May 2016, at 16:44, Wolfgang Schuster  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> \appendtoks \rm \to \everymathematics
>> 
>> Here is another variation: using the sans-serif math styles, combining with 
>> the suggestion in the “Nolimits” thread. It would save the effort having to 
>> change all variables into italics by hand, but otherwise, just a hack. (It 
>> seems that \diff is defined, though I haven’t found a reference for it.)
>> 
>> \setupbodyfont[xits,10pt]
>> 
>> \appendtoks
>>  \catcode`햽=\activecatcode
>>  \letcharcode `햽 \diff
>> \to \everymathematics
>> 
>> \startformula
>>  \startalign
>>I &= ∫_S d(x)\, 햽 x \NR
>>I &= ∫_S d(x)\, \diff x \NR
>>I &= ∫_S d(x)\, {\mathupright d} x \NR
>>  \stopalign
>> \stopformula
> 
> What do you mean with change by hand ... isn't that what context can do for 
> you? Operate on all those axes ... (\tf is the upright one). There are 
> extensive mapping mechanisms so best user them.

The idea is to follow Unicode math styles in the input, so the serif upright 
styles must be in the ASCII range—there are no special math styles for those. 
Right now, in TeX code, one normally uses the in the ASCII range for math 
italic. So all variables, now in the ASCII range must be changed to Unicode 
math italic in order to not conflict with the upright ones put into the ASCII 
range, unless one does something else: Say using the math sans-serif upright 
for the upright. But that isn’t right either, as someone, now that both serif 
and sans-serif math styles are available, may want to use them to indicate 
semantically different math objects.


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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Hagen]

On 5/15/2016 6:36 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:



On 15 May 2016, at 16:44, Wolfgang Schuster  wrote:

\appendtoks \rm \to \everymathematics


Here is another variation: using the sans-serif math styles, combining with the 
suggestion in the “Nolimits” thread. It would save the effort having to change 
all variables into italics by hand, but otherwise, just a hack. (It seems that 
\diff is defined, though I haven’t found a reference for it.)

\setupbodyfont[xits,10pt]

\appendtoks
  \catcode`햽=\activecatcode
  \letcharcode `햽 \diff
\to \everymathematics

\startformula
  \startalign
I &= ∫_S d(x)\, 햽 x \NR
I &= ∫_S d(x)\, \diff x \NR
I &= ∫_S d(x)\, {\mathupright d} x \NR
  \stopalign
\stopformula


What do you mean with change by hand ... isn't that what context can do 
for you? Operate on all those axes ... (\tf is the upright one). There 
are extensive mapping mechanisms so best user them.


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Hagen]

On 5/15/2016 4:28 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:



On 15 May 2016, at 15:37, Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl> wrote:

On 5/14/2016 7:11 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:

In order to align with Unicode, \setupmathematics might have Latin shape 
options, as the Greek ‘lcgreek’ and ‘ucgreek', say ‘lclatin' and ‘uclatin', 
both defaulting to ’italic’. Unicode added the Latin italic symbols to the Math 
Alphanumeric Symbols range, so the upright letters are inaccessible when italic 
is assigned to the Basic Latin (ASCII) range.


I'm not sure what you mean. One can use \mathupright if needed. We support all 
the alphabets and these are independent of the basic latin range.


Traditionally constants are set in upright and variables in italic. So 
constants like “log” etc., are set in upright. It is not used rigorously 
because of past typographical limitations, but one might in principle do that, 
cf. the example below, where the integral differential “d” is set in upright to 
disambiguate relative the function named “d”.

When Unicode added math styles, it added italics, expecting the ASCII range to 
be upright, which would be normal if using a text editor that does not 
translate math into italics. But the TeX legacy is the opposite.


\setupbodyfont[xits,10pt]

\startformula
 \startalign
   I &= ∫_S d(x)\, dx \NR
   I &= ∫_S 푑(x)\, dx \NR
   I &= ∫_S d(x)\, \mathupright{d} x \NR
   I &= ∫_S 푑(x)\, \mathupright{d} x \NR
 \stopalign
\stopformula


well, i guess unicode assumed messing with math input characters anyway 
(given that some alphabets have holes) and a normal upright alphabet 
would have made sense (after all emojs get added by the dozen every time 
and there is no end at that so why on math)


anyway, so you want no mapping then, so this means something like

\unprotect
\let\mathitalic\mathdefault
\appendtoks
\edef\p_default{\mathematicsparameter\c!default}%
\ifx\p_default\v!normal
  \let\mathdefault\mathupright
\else
  \let\mathdefault\mathitalic
\fi
\to \everysetupmathematics
\protect

\setupmathematics[default=normal]

(where of course we default to default=italic)

i have no problem adding that (basically one can even go as far as 
disabling every mapping assuming pure unicode input but i guess that 
users then would still ask for \mathfoo commands)


and of course we need more math fonts that have monospace (one is in the 
making in the gyre project)


Hans


-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

> On 15 May 2016, at 16:44, Wolfgang Schuster  
> wrote:
> 
> \appendtoks \rm \to \everymathematics

Here is another variation: using the sans-serif math styles, combining with the 
suggestion in the “Nolimits” thread. It would save the effort having to change 
all variables into italics by hand, but otherwise, just a hack. (It seems that 
\diff is defined, though I haven’t found a reference for it.)

\setupbodyfont[xits,10pt]

\appendtoks
  \catcode`햽=\activecatcode
  \letcharcode `햽 \diff
\to \everymathematics

\startformula
  \startalign
I &= ∫_S d(x)\, 햽 x \NR
I &= ∫_S d(x)\, \diff x \NR
I &= ∫_S d(x)\, {\mathupright d} x \NR
  \stopalign
\stopformula


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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

> On 15 May 2016, at 16:44, Wolfgang Schuster  
> wrote:
> 
> \appendtoks \rm \to \everymathematics

This does the trick. Here more carefully composed example, showing how tricky 
it is to use currently:

\setupbodyfont[xits,10pt]

\startformula
  \startalign
I &= ∫_S d(x)\, dx \NR
I &= ∫_S d(x)\, {\mathupright d} x \NR
  \stopalign
\stopformula


\appendtoks \rm \to \everymathematics

\startformula
  \startalign
퐼 &= ∫_푆 푑(푥)\, d푥 \NR
퐼 &= ∫_푆 푑(푥)\, \mathupright{d} 푥 \NR
  \stopalign
\stopformula

The first integral above is how it typically looks, with the differential “d” 
in italic. The last three changes it to upright. In the last two, relying on 
Unicode math styles, one must change the other variables as well, x, I, S, to 
italic. A practical problem is the lack of a good input method, but if that 
changes, it might be useful.


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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Hans Åberg 
15. Mai 2016 um 16:28

Traditionally constants are set in upright and variables in italic. So 
constants like “log” etc., are set in upright. It is not used 
rigorously because of past typographical limitations, but one might in 
principle do that, cf. the example below, where the integral 
differential “d” is set in upright to disambiguate relative the 
function named “d”.


When Unicode added math styles, it added italics, expecting the ASCII 
range to be upright, which would be normal if using a text editor that 
does not translate math into italics. But the TeX legacy is the opposite.



\setupbodyfont[xits,10pt]

\startformula
\startalign
I &= ∫_S d(x)\, dx \NR
I &= ∫_S 푑(x)\, dx \NR
I &= ∫_S d(x)\, \mathupright{d} x \NR
I &= ∫_S 푑(x)\, \mathupright{d} x \NR
\stopalign
\stopformula


\appendtoks \rm \to \everymathematics

\setupbodyfont[xits,10pt]

\starttext

\startformula
\startmathalignment
\NC I \EQ ∫_S d(x)\, dx \NR
\NC I \EQ ∫_S 푑(x)\, dx \NR
\NC I \EQ ∫_S d(x)\, dx \NR
\NC I \EQ ∫_S 푑(x)\, dx \NR
\stopmathalignment
\stopformula

\stoptext

Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

> On 15 May 2016, at 15:37, Hans Hagen <pra...@wxs.nl> wrote:
> 
> On 5/14/2016 7:11 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:
>> In order to align with Unicode, \setupmathematics might have Latin shape 
>> options, as the Greek ‘lcgreek’ and ‘ucgreek', say ‘lclatin' and ‘uclatin', 
>> both defaulting to ’italic’. Unicode added the Latin italic symbols to the 
>> Math Alphanumeric Symbols range, so the upright letters are inaccessible 
>> when italic is assigned to the Basic Latin (ASCII) range.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean. One can use \mathupright if needed. We support 
> all the alphabets and these are independent of the basic latin range.

Traditionally constants are set in upright and variables in italic. So 
constants like “log” etc., are set in upright. It is not used rigorously 
because of past typographical limitations, but one might in principle do that, 
cf. the example below, where the integral differential “d” is set in upright to 
disambiguate relative the function named “d”.

When Unicode added math styles, it added italics, expecting the ASCII range to 
be upright, which would be normal if using a text editor that does not 
translate math into italics. But the TeX legacy is the opposite.


\setupbodyfont[xits,10pt]

\startformula
 \startalign
   I &= ∫_S d(x)\, dx \NR
   I &= ∫_S 푑(x)\, dx \NR
   I &= ∫_S d(x)\, \mathupright{d} x \NR
   I &= ∫_S 푑(x)\, \mathupright{d} x \NR
 \stopalign
\stopformula



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Re: [NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Hagen]

On 5/14/2016 7:11 PM, Hans Åberg wrote:

In order to align with Unicode, \setupmathematics might have Latin shape 
options, as the Greek ‘lcgreek’ and ‘ucgreek', say ‘lclatin' and ‘uclatin', 
both defaulting to ’italic’. Unicode added the Latin italic symbols to the Math 
Alphanumeric Symbols range, so the upright letters are inaccessible when italic 
is assigned to the Basic Latin (ASCII) range.


I'm not sure what you mean. One can use \mathupright if needed. We 
support all the alphabets and these are independent of the basic latin 
range.



-
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  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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[NTG-context] Latin setupmathematics

[Hans Åberg]

In order to align with Unicode, \setupmathematics might have Latin shape 
options, as the Greek ‘lcgreek’ and ‘ucgreek', say ‘lclatin' and ‘uclatin', 
both defaulting to ’italic’. Unicode added the Latin italic symbols to the Math 
Alphanumeric Symbols range, so the upright letters are inaccessible when italic 
is assigned to the Basic Latin (ASCII) range.


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[NTG-context] ANNOUNCEMENT: Arabic-Latin Modern Fixed

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

[This announcement is dedicated to the 110% recovery and return of our  
visionary and fearless leader Hans Hagen: Three cheers to you, Hans!!!]


Dear gang,

It's my pleasure to announce the release of Arabic-Latin Modern Fixed, a  
monospaced font that extends TeX-Gyre Latin Modern Mono 10 Regular. It has  
been uploaded to CTAN, although I do not know how long it will take for  
the CTAN people to approve and publish it. Eventually it will make it's  
way into the ConTeXt minimals as well. Until then, you may use this  
private link:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/pulgaxshzr5bcmy/almfixed.zip

README.txt is reproduced below. Future plans include both bold and  
proportional versions. Enjoy and


Best wishes
Idris
--
Idris Samawi Hamid
Professor of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

==README.txt==
Typeface Family: Arabic-Latin Modern
Font: Arabic-Latin Modern Fixed
Style: Regular
Version: 0.92
Author: Idris Samawi Hamid
Date: August 5, 2014

License:

Arabic-Latin Modern Fixed is licensed under the GUST Font License with one  
important adjustment: It is requested, as well as legally *required*, that  
derived works be distributed only after changing the names of the fonts  
comprising this work.


http://www.gust.org.pl/projects/e-foundry/licenses/GUST-FONT-LICENSE.txt/view

Contains:

http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/doc/almfixed-dtk.pdf
http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/ps;
http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/tt;

Some notes, in no particular order:

1. For more extensive documentation, examples, and background; see  
almfixed-dtk.pdf.


2. The final version number (per any future fixes, maintenance etc.) is  
intended to be Version 1.10.


3. Arabic-Latin Modern Fixed is an extension of TeX-Gyre Latin Modern Mono  
10 Regular. Every glyph and opentype feature of the Latin Modern Mono has  
been retained, with minor improvements. On the other hand, we have changed  
the vertical metrics of the font. Although the Arabic script is designed  
to use the same x-size as Latin Modern Mono, the former script needs  
greater ascender and descender space. And there are cases (such as certain  
kinds of academic assignment and definitely mixed Latin and Arabic text)  
where Latin can use the extra vertical space as well. Otherwise, only the  
vertical metrics prevents this from being a drop-in replacement for Latin  
Modern Mono . Of course one can always set the vertical metrics in TeX to  
match LM Mono.


4. Every Arabic glyph in each Unicode-code block is supported (up to  
Unicode 7.0): Arabic, Arabic Supplement, Arabic Extended, Arabic  
Presentation-Forms A, and Arabic Presentation-Forms B.


5. This is a totally original design, using the Knuthian letters as  
inspiration. Indeed, virtually all Arabic characters were developed on the  
foundation of a study of the Latin Modern Mono letters 'l', 'r', and 'c'.  
In other words, this is a genuine extension of the original Knuthian  
design to an authentic and culturally authentic Arabic typing font.


6. There are two versions of the font: ps and tt. The Type~1 version is  
for print applications (and usually the default for TeX). The TrueType  
version is for on-screen applications such as text editors. Hinting in the  
tt version is much better for on-screen, at least on Microsoft Windows.


7. The most unique feature of Arabic-Latin Modern is in its treatment of  
vowels and diacritics. Each vowel and diacritic (ALM Fixed contains a  
total of 68 such glyphs) can now be edited horizontally within any text  
editor or processor. I believe this is the very first opentype Arabic font  
ever to have this capability. Editing complex Arabic texts will now be  
much easier to input and to proofread.


8. At least 12 additional format characters are included; see  
almfixed-dtk.pdf for details. Also designed a glyph representation for  
U+00A0 (no-break space), as well as U+25CC (dotted circle).


9. Arabic-Latin Modern Mono will be a boon to scholars, academics, coder  
editors, and anyone who wants to manage the entry of the wide array of  
Unicode Arabic text for editing, verbatim, or other purposes.

==
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[NTG-context] Latin Modern and optical sizes in math

[Joshua Krämer]

Dear list,

is it possible to get the correct optical sizes of Latin Modern (or
another math font) in formulae?

I'm using the Selectfont mechanism.

In the following example, the superscripts simply use the regular
font.


\definefontfamily [lm] [math] [Latin Modern Math]
\setupbodyfont [lm]
\starttext
\math{k^{k^{k}}}
\stoptext


Kind regards,
Joshua


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[NTG-context] Italic small capitals with Latin Modern font

[Maggyero]

How can I use Latin Modern italic small capitals? I have seen on a previous
thread that small caps are separated in an other file for Latin Modern font
and that one should load it to use them in italic, but there was no example
given to achieve that.

Minimal example:

\starttext
\it \sc \input knuth
\stoptext
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[NTG-context] buglet in latin modern

[Hans Hagen]

Hi,

There is a buglet in lm mono 12pt:

\starttext % 6 and 9 wrong in 12pt
\def\TestMe#1{\setbox0\hbox{#1}\dontleavehmode\expanded{\box0: 
\the\wd0}\par}

\definedfont[lmmono8-regular]
\processcommalist[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,{,}]\TestMe
\definedfont[lmmono10-regular]
\processcommalist[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,{,}]\TestMe
\definedfont[lmmono12-regular]
\processcommalist[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,{,}]\TestMe
\stoptext

Hans



--

-
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 | www.pragma-pod.nl
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[NTG-context] Arabic and Latin hemistiches

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

Dear gang,

Re: Arabic poetry thread:

Hans has just implemented high-level support for hemistiches and caesuras  
(using here the technical names for the style of poetry structure used in  
Arabic and other classical literature).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemistich
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesura

With the latest beta, run the attached file. The module m-hemistich.mkiv  
also has a demo inside.


For Arabic, note the tatweel across columns (only manual for now). The  
separator option with \hemistiches is probably more useful for Latin and  
Greek classical literature etc where the separator occurs on every line;  
the \hemistichescaesura option is probably more useful for Arabic where  
there are only occasional connectors across columns.


Could one of you kindly add a page with this info to the wiki? Much thanks  
and enjoy!


Best wishes
Idris
--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523

test-hemistiches.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


test-hemistiches.tex
Description: TeX document
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Re: [NTG-context] Arabic and Latin hemistiches

[J. R. Schmid]

Idris,

that's awesome news - I would have never imagined for something like this
to happen so quickly. Unfortunately, I can't get it to run (probably my own
fault). So far I'd been working with TeXLive. Now to try this out, I
installed ConTeXt standalone and then issued first-setup.bat
--modules='m-hemistich' (tried 't-hemistich' as well, and yes, Windows -
shame on me). It still gives the error message resolvers  modules 
'hemistich' is not found, though. What am I missing?

Cheers,
  J.R.



On 29 August 2013 22:34, Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد 
isha...@colostate.edu wrote:

 Dear gang,

 Re: Arabic poetry thread:

 Hans has just implemented high-level support for hemistiches and caesuras
 (using here the technical names for the style of poetry structure used in
 Arabic and other classical literature).

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Hemistichhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemistich
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Caesurahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesura

 With the latest beta, run the attached file. The module m-hemistich.mkiv
 also has a demo inside.

 For Arabic, note the tatweel across columns (only manual for now). The
 separator option with \hemistiches is probably more useful for Latin and
 Greek classical literature etc where the separator occurs on every line;
 the \hemistichescaesura option is probably more useful for Arabic where
 there are only occasional connectors across columns.

 Could one of you kindly add a page with this info to the wiki? Much thanks
 and enjoy!

 Best wishes
 Idris
 --
 Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
 Department of Philosophy
 Colorado State University
 Fort Collins, CO 80523

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Re: [NTG-context] Arabic and Latin hemistiches

[Hans Hagen]

On 8/30/2013 12:48 AM, J. R. Schmid wrote:

Idris,

that's awesome news - I would have never imagined for something like
this to happen so quickly. Unfortunately, I can't get it to run
(probably my own fault). So far I'd been working with TeXLive. Now to
try this out, I installed ConTeXt standalone and then issued
first-setup.bat --modules='m-hemistich' (tried 't-hemistich' as well,
and yes, Windows - shame on me). It still gives the error message
resolvers  modules  'hemistich' is not found, though. What am I missing?


it's an m- module

just try this:

context --global m-hemistich.mkiv

if that produces a file you should start your docs with

\usemodule[hemistich] % no m-

(using the command line to load modules is only needed for special cases)

Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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Re: [NTG-context] Arabic and Latin hemistiches

[J. R. Schmid]

There seems to be something more fundamental wrong with my setup.
When I do that, I get:

! I can't find file `m-hemistich.mkiv'.

Isn't first-setup.bat --modules='m-hemistich' supposed to install the
module?


On 30 August 2013 02:10, Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl wrote:

 On 8/30/2013 12:48 AM, J. R. Schmid wrote:

 Idris,

 that's awesome news - I would have never imagined for something like
 this to happen so quickly. Unfortunately, I can't get it to run
 (probably my own fault). So far I'd been working with TeXLive. Now to
 try this out, I installed ConTeXt standalone and then issued
 first-setup.bat --modules='m-hemistich' (tried 't-hemistich' as well,
 and yes, Windows - shame on me). It still gives the error message
 resolvers  modules  'hemistich' is not found, though. What am I
 missing?


 it's an m- module

 just try this:

 context --global m-hemistich.mkiv

 if that produces a file you should start your docs with

 \usemodule[hemistich] % no m-

 (using the command line to load modules is only needed for special cases)

 Hans

 --**--**-
   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
  | www.pragma-pod.nl
 --**--**-
 __**__**
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Re: [NTG-context] Arabic and Latin hemistiches

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013, J. R. Schmid wrote:


There seems to be something more fundamental wrong with my setup.
When I do that, I get:

! I can't find file `m-hemistich.mkiv'.

Isn't first-setup.bat --modules='m-hemistich' supposed to install the
module?


From what I understand from Hans's message, m-hemistich is part of the 
ConTeXt distribution, so you just need to update your distribution to 
install it (i.e., just run first-setup.bat)


The --modules switch in first-setup is for third-party modules (those 
starting with t- )


Aditya
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Re: [NTG-context] Arabic and Latin hemistiches

[J. R. Schmid]

From what I understand from Hans's message, m-hemistich is part of the
ConTeXt distribution, so you just need to update your distribution to
install it (i.e., just run first-setup.bat)


That's what I understood from the ConTeXt Standalone wiki page, and also 
why I'm so confused about this - my Standalone installation is brand 
new, and I started it roughly 3 hours after Hans' post about the new 
module. I just ran first-setup.bat again, but it still doesn't find the 
module.


Is there a separate source/repository/etc. that needs to be specified?
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Re: [NTG-context] Arabic and Latin hemistiches

[Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد]

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:07:48 -0600, J. R. Schmid j...@weitnahbei.de wrote:

That's what I understood from the ConTeXt Standalone wiki page, and also  
why I'm so confused about this - my Standalone installation is brand  
new, and I started it roughly 3 hours after Hans' post about the new  
module. I just ran first-setup.bat again, but it still doesn't find the  
module.

 Is there a separate source/repository/etc. that needs to be specified?


Look here (where the beginning of the path may be different on your
machine/OS):

C:\ConTeXt\tex\texmf-context\tex\context\base

If m-hemistich.mkiv is there, you have updated the distribution. If not,
you have not updated the distribution.

Another way: Look at a log file from any run and look at the date to
verify that you have updated. Here's mine:

ConTeXt  ver: 2013.08.26 16:41

If you have an older date, you need to update.

Best wishes
Idris
--
Professor Idris Samawi Hamid
Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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Re: [NTG-context] A bug in latin modern fonts?

[Janne Junnila]

Hi,

I would like to my previous message that also Asana-Math seems to have problems.

\setupbodyfont[asana]
\starttext

The function $f \colon \reals \to \reals$ is given by $x \mapsto x -
3$. Its derivative is
$f'(x) = 1$.

\stoptext

In the above the ' in f'(x) looks wrong and there's hyphen instead of
minus at x - 3.
The problems arise in the current standalone, the latest stable one
worked OK at least
for the latin modern fonts.

Janne Junnila

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Janne Junnila janne.junn...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi!

 The following example seems to have some troubles with the latin modern fonts:

 \starttext

 The function $f \colon \reals \to \reals$ is given by $x \mapsto x - 3$.

 \stoptext

 The colon is printed fine, but the blackboard bold Rs don't look
 correct. The \mapsto symbol is missing and there's a hyphen instead of
 minus.

 Are others having the same issue? I tried to do a fresh install, but
 the problem persisted. There were some messages like

 fonts            otf loading  skipping cyclic reference U+00028 in
 math variant U+00028

 during compiling. I don't know if they are related to the problem.

 Thanks,
 Janne Junnila
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Re: [NTG-context] A bug in latin modern fonts?

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Sat, 4 Feb 2012, Janne Junnila wrote:


On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Janne Junnila janne.junn...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi!

The following example seems to have some troubles with the latin modern fonts:

\starttext

The function $f \colon \reals \to \reals$ is given by $x \mapsto x - 3$.

\stoptext

The colon is printed fine, but the blackboard bold Rs don't look
correct. The \mapsto symbol is missing and there's a hyphen instead of
minus.

Are others having the same issue? I tried to do a fresh install, but
the problem persisted. There were some messages like

fonts            otf loading  skipping cyclic reference U+00028 in
math variant U+00028

during compiling. I don't know if they are related to the problem.



Hi,

I would like to my previous message that also Asana-Math seems to have problems.

\setupbodyfont[asana]
\starttext

The function $f \colon \reals \to \reals$ is given by $x \mapsto x -
3$. Its derivative is
$f'(x) = 1$.

\stoptext

In the above the ' in f'(x) looks wrong and there's hyphen instead of
minus at x - 3.
The problems arise in the current standalone, the latest stable one
worked OK at least
for the latin modern fonts.


The reference implementatation for math handling is cambria. With cambria
$f'(x)$ and $\mapsto$ work fine. But $a-b$ gives text minus, and $a 
\colonequals b$ gives an error.


@Hans and Khaled: Any idea why this is happening?

\starttext
\setupbodyfont[cambria]
$a-b$ % text minus
$a \colonequals b$ % error
\stoptext

$f'(x)$ works fine with cambria and xits, but is placed low with asana. My 
guess is that this is the font's fault; with asana $f^{'}$ works fine. 
The same bug is also present with LMmath.


The symbol \mapsto appears to be missing from asana and lmmath. ConTeXt 
currently does not use fall backs for missing math glyphs.


Finally, $\reals$ works correctly with cambria, asana, lmmath, and xtis. 
It does not work with euler, but that is because euler is missing 
blackboard gylphs.


So, to summarize:

1. - (minus), is clearly a bug in ConTeXt.

2. \colonequals is a bug in ConTeXt's definition. We should be using the 
glyph from the font anyways and falling back only if the glyph is missing.


3. \mapsto glyph is missing from lmmath and asana. We need to fall back to 
composed glyphs.


4. \reals is working fine. The shape of the glyph in lmmath is unusual, 
but that should be a font issue rather than a context issue.


Aditya


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Re: [NTG-context] A bug in latin modern fonts?

[Khaled Hosny]

On Sat, Feb 04, 2012 at 12:49:41PM -0500, Aditya Mahajan wrote:
 On Sat, 4 Feb 2012, Janne Junnila wrote:
 
 On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Janne Junnila janne.junn...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 Hi!
 
 The following example seems to have some troubles with the latin modern 
 fonts:
 
 \starttext
 
 The function $f \colon \reals \to \reals$ is given by $x \mapsto x - 3$.
 
 \stoptext
 
 The colon is printed fine, but the blackboard bold Rs don't look
 correct. The \mapsto symbol is missing and there's a hyphen instead of
 minus.
 
 Are others having the same issue? I tried to do a fresh install, but
 the problem persisted. There were some messages like
 
 fonts            otf loading  skipping cyclic reference U+00028 in
 math variant U+00028
 
 during compiling. I don't know if they are related to the problem.
 
 Hi,
 
 I would like to my previous message that also Asana-Math seems to have 
 problems.
 
 \setupbodyfont[asana]
 \starttext
 
 The function $f \colon \reals \to \reals$ is given by $x \mapsto x -
 3$. Its derivative is
 $f'(x) = 1$.
 
 \stoptext
 
 In the above the ' in f'(x) looks wrong and there's hyphen instead of
 minus at x - 3.
 The problems arise in the current standalone, the latest stable one
 worked OK at least
 for the latin modern fonts.
 
 The reference implementatation for math handling is cambria. With cambria
 $f'(x)$ and $\mapsto$ work fine. But $a-b$ gives text minus, and $a
 \colonequals b$ gives an error.
 
 @Hans and Khaled: Any idea why this is happening?
 
 \starttext
 \setupbodyfont[cambria]
 $a-b$ % text minus
 $a \colonequals b$ % error
 \stoptext
 
 $f'(x)$ works fine with cambria and xits, but is placed low with
 asana. My guess is that this is the font's fault; with asana $f^{'}$
 works fine. The same bug is also present with LMmath.

Looks like ‘ssty’ is not applied to script and scriptscript fonts,
Cambria and XITS can go away with it not applied since the default prime
glyphs is raised and small, but Asana (and I think Latin Modern Math)
primes won't look OK without this feature applied.

Regards,
 Khaled
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Re: [NTG-context] A bug in latin modern fonts?

[Hans Hagen]

On 4-2-2012 18:49, Aditya Mahajan wrote:


2. \colonequals is a bug in ConTeXt's definition. We should be using the
glyph from the font anyways and falling back only if the glyph is missing.


Ah, i messed that one up ... I'll fix it.

But anyway, it looks like I have to start on making a a nice library of 
composed glyphs


Hans


-
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 | www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] A bug in latin modern fonts?

[Aditya Mahajan]

On Sat, 4 Feb 2012, Hans Hagen wrote:


On 4-2-2012 18:49, Aditya Mahajan wrote:


2. \colonequals is a bug in ConTeXt's definition. We should be using the
glyph from the font anyways and falling back only if the glyph is missing.


Ah, i messed that one up ... I'll fix it.

But anyway, it looks like I have to start on making a a nice library of 
composed glyphs


The following mapping in char-def.lua should take care of remapping - 
(0x002D) to \minus (0x2212), but it is not working.


 {
  adobename=hyphen,
  category=pd,
  cjkwd=na,
  description=HYPHEN-MINUS,
  direction=es,
  linebreak=hy,
  mathsymbol=0x2212,
  unicodeslot=0x002D,
 },

The attached patch to math-map.lua can force the remapping, but it will be 
nicer if the mathsymbol in char-def.lua worked correctly.


Aditya--- 
/home/adityam/Software/context-pkgbuild/src/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-map.lua
 2011-09-14 06:34:53.0 -0400
+++ /opt/context-minimals/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-map.lua   
2012-02-04 16:13:16.0 -0500
@@ -128,7 +128,7 @@
 [0x03F4]=0x03F4, [0x03F5]=0x03F5,
 },
 symbols   = {
-[0x2202]=0x2202, [0x2207]=0x2207,
+[0x002d]=0x2212, [0x2202]=0x2202, [0x2207]=0x2207, 
 },
 }
 
@@ -160,7 +160,7 @@
 [0x03F4]=0x1D6F3, [0x03F5]=0x1D716,
 },
 symbols   = {
-[0x2202]=0x1D715, [0x2207]=0x1D6FB,
+[0x002d]=0x2212, [0x2202]=0x1D715, [0x2207]=0x1D6FB,
 },
 }
 
@@ -185,7 +185,7 @@
 [0x03F4]=0x1D6B9, [0x03F5]=0x1D6DC,
 },
 symbols   = {
-[0x2202]=0x1D6DB, [0x2207]=0x1D6C1,
+[0x002d]=0x2212, [0x2202]=0x1D6DB, [0x2207]=0x1D6C1,
 },
 }
 
@@ -210,7 +210,7 @@
 [0x03F4]=0x1D72D, [0x03F5]=0x1D750,
 },
 symbols   = {
-[0x2202]=0x1D74F, [0x2207]=0x1D735,
+[0x002d]=0x2212, [0x2202]=0x1D74F, [0x2207]=0x1D735,
 },
 }
 
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[NTG-context] A bug in latin modern fonts?

[Janne Junnila]

Hi!

The following example seems to have some troubles with the latin modern fonts:

\starttext

The function $f \colon \reals \to \reals$ is given by $x \mapsto x - 3$.

\stoptext

The colon is printed fine, but the blackboard bold Rs don't look
correct. The \mapsto symbol is missing and there's a hyphen instead of
minus.

Are others having the same issue? I tried to do a fresh install, but
the problem persisted. There were some messages like

fontsotf loading  skipping cyclic reference U+00028 in
math variant U+00028

during compiling. I don't know if they are related to the problem.

Thanks,
Janne Junnila
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Re: [NTG-context] ⅛ not displayed in Latin Modern

[Paul Menzel]

Dear ConTeXt folks,


Am Samstag, den 29.10.2011, 18:27 +0200 schrieb Paul Menzel:

 some fractions (input using Compose) are not displayed in the resulting
 PDF files.
 
 \starttext
 ⅛ ist $\frac18$.
 
 ½, ⅓, ¼, ⅕, ⅙, ⅛
 \stoptext
 
 I guess this is a font problem,

using XITS [1][2] (Is that the also the fonts name?), everything is
shown correctly.

\setupbodyfont[xits]

\starttext
⅛ ist $\frac18$.

½, ⅓, ¼, ⅕, ⅙, ⅛
\stoptext

 but maybe fall backs could be added?

Since I am wondering why ½ should work but not for example ⅛.


Thanks,

Paul


eigths.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
\setupbodyfont[xits]

\starttext
⅛ ist $\frac18$.

½, ⅓, ¼, ⅕, ⅙, ⅛
\stoptext


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Re: [NTG-context] ⅛ not displayed in Latin Modern

[Paul Menzel]

Dear ConTeXt folks,


I forgot to append the links.

Am Samstag, den 29.10.2011, 23:12 +0200 schrieb Paul Menzel:

 Am Samstag, den 29.10.2011, 18:27 +0200 schrieb Paul Menzel:
 
  some fractions (input using Compose) are not displayed in the resulting
  PDF files.
  
  \starttext
  ⅛ ist $\frac18$.
  
  ½, ⅓, ¼, ⅕, ⅙, ⅛
  \stoptext
  
  I guess this is a font problem,
 
 using XITS [1][2] (Is that the also the fonts name?), everything is
 shown correctly.
 
 \setupbodyfont[xits]
 
 \starttext
 ⅛ ist $\frac18$.
 
 ½, ⅓, ¼, ⅕, ⅙, ⅛
 \stoptext
 
  but maybe fall backs could be added?
 
 Since I am wondering why ½ should work but not for example ⅛.


Thanks,

Paul


[1] https://github.com/khaledhosny/xits-math
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XITS_font_project


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[NTG-context] quotation marks for language latin

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

Hi all, Hans,

in lang-def.mkiv (line 623) and and lang-ita.mkii (line 101), we have

\installlanguage % the same as italian
  [\s!la]
  [\c!rightquote=\lowerrightsingleninequote,
   \c!rightquotation=\lowerrightdoubleninequote,
...

This can't possibly be right (is there a language which has “quote„ ?). I think 
the usual thing would be

\installlanguage
  [\s!la]
  [\c!rightquotation=\upperrightdoubleninequote,
   \c!rightquote=\upperrightsingleninequote,
...

Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] quotation marks for language latin

[Hans Hagen]

On Sunday 01/05/2011 at 4:09 pm, Thomas A. Schmitz  wrote:

Hi all, Hans,

in lang-def.mkiv (line 623) and and lang-ita.mkii (line 101), we have

\installlanguage % the same as italian
   [\s!la]
   [\c!rightquote=\lowerrightsingleninequote,
 \c!rightquotation=\lowerrightdoubleninequote,


This can't possibly be right (is there a language which has 
“quote„ ?). I think the usual thing would be

dutch has


\installlanguage
   [\s!la]
   [\c!rightquotation=\upperrightdoubleninequote,
 \c!rightquote=\upperrightsingleninequote,




what do those latin manuscripts in you office use?

Hans
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Re: [NTG-context] quotation marks for language latin

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

On May 1, 2011, at 4:59 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:

 
 
 
 On Sunday 01/05/2011 at 4:09 pm, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
 Hi all, Hans,
 
 in lang-def.mkiv (line 623) and and lang-ita.mkii (line 101), we have
 
 \installlanguage % the same as italian
[\s!la]
[\c!rightquote=\lowerrightsingleninequote,
 \c!rightquotation=\lowerrightdoubleninequote,
 
 
 This can't possibly be right (is there a language which has “quote„ ?). I 
 think the usual thing would be
 dutch has  

Wait wait. Dutch has

\installlanguage
  [\s!nl]
  [\c!rightquote=\upperrightsingleninequote,
   \c!rightquotation=\upperrightdoubleninequote]

I just had a look at 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English_usage_of_quotation_marks, and the only 
language which has lowerdoubleninequote on the right of the quotation is 
Hebrew, I assume because its RTL. 

 what do those latin manuscripts in you office use?  
 
 Hans 

Quotation marks weren't invented until the printed book (from habits in Greek 
manuscripts actually, but that's a different story), so manuscripts aren't of 
help here, unfortunately... Printed texts often follow national conventions (so 
texts printed in Germany have „quote“), but also “quote” or ‘quote’. I'm fine 
with anything, but the lowernine variety looks really weird.

Thomas
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Re: [NTG-context] Serbian: Latin vs. Cyrillic

[Vedran Miletić]

Datuma 11. srpnja 2010. 13:24 Mojca Miklavec
mojca.miklavec.li...@gmail.com je napisao/la:
 It would be great if ConTeXt supported:

 \mainlanguage
    [serbian]
    [script=latin | cyrillic]

 as well as

 \mainlanguage
    [english]
    [variant=american | british]

 etc. This is what Polyglossia does and I find it nice.

+1. How hard would it be to implement that?

-- 
Vedran Miletić
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Re: [NTG-context] Serbian: Latin vs. Cyrillic

[Hans Hagen]

On 12-7-2010 4:00, Vedran Miletić wrote:

Datuma 11. srpnja 2010. 13:24 Mojca Miklavec
mojca.miklavec.li...@gmail.com  je napisao/la:

It would be great if ConTeXt supported:

\mainlanguage
[serbian]
[script=latin | cyrillic]

as well as

\mainlanguage
[english]
[variant=american | british]

etc. This is what Polyglossia does and I find it nice.


+1. How hard would it be to implement that?


i have no clue what it means but we have already inheritance in place 
since ages


so effectively we have:

\installlanguage [usenglish]   [en-us]
\installlanguage [ukenglish]   [en-gb]
\installlanguage [english] [en-us]

and adding

\installlanguage [brittish][en-uk]

is no big deal

i see no advantage in adding yet another mechanism for that

with regards to script ... not sure how that relates as the language 
mechanism does two things


- labels and conventions (time, date, numbering, quoting, ...)
- hyphenation control

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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[NTG-context] Serbian: Latin vs. Cyrillic

[Mojca Miklavec]

2010/7/11 Vedran Miletić wrote:

 I could also add support for Serbian latin, but I have no idea how to
 add new language that will allow both latin and cyrilic.

It would be great if ConTeXt supported:

\mainlanguage
[serbian]
[script=latin | cyrillic]

as well as

\mainlanguage
[english]
[variant=american | british]

etc. This is what Polyglossia does and I find it nice.

Mojca
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[NTG-context] fonts with non latin file names

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Hi,

i have a problem when i use font which contain non ascii letters in the file 
name,
e.g. the filename of the Hirganino fonts on Mac OS X are a mixture or japanese 
and
latin letters but only the latin part is used to cache the font information.

In the following example

\definefontsynonym[Mincho][file:ヒラギノ明朝 Pro W3][features=default] % 
/Library/Fonts/ヒラギノ明朝 Pro W3.otf
\definefontsynonym[Gothic][file:ヒラギノ角ゴ Pro W3][features=default] % 
/Library/Fonts/ヒラギノ角ゴ Pro W3.otf
\starttext
\startlines
\definedfont[Mincho]Hiragino Mincho Pro
\definedfont[Gothic]Hiragino Kaku Gothic Pro
\stoplines
\stoptext

the font information is saved at each run in the font cache under the name 
'-pro-w3'.

fonts   : preloading latin modern fonts
bodyfont: 12pt rm is loaded
language: language en is active
systems : begin file selectfont-13 at line 3
!load otf   : loading: /Library/Fonts/ヒラギノ明朝 Pro W3.otf (hash: -pro-w3)
!load otf   : file size: 11580728
!load otf   : enhancing ...
!load otf   : saving in cache: /Library/Fonts/ヒラギノ明朝 Pro W3.otf
!load otf   : loading: /Library/Fonts/ヒラギノ角ゴ Pro W3.otf (hash: -pro-w3)
!load otf   : file size: 9362284
!load otf   : enhancing ...
!load otf   : saving in cache: /Library/Fonts/ヒラギノ角ゴ Pro W3.otf
fonts   : resetting map file list
{/Users/wolf/ctx/tex/texmf-context/fonts/map/pdftex/context/original-empty.map}
fonts   : using map file: original-base
{/Users/wolf/ctx/tex/texmf-context/fonts/map/pdftex/context/original-base.map}
fonts   : using map file: original-ams-base
{/Users/wolf/ctx/tex/texmf-context/fonts/map/pdftex/context/original-ams-base.map}
fonts   : using map file: original-ams-euler
{/Users/wolf/ctx/tex/texmf-context/fonts/map/pdftex/context/original-ams-euler.map}
fonts   : using map file: original-public-lm
{/Users/wolf/ctx/tex/texmf-context/fonts/map/pdftex/context/original-public-lm.map}
fonts   : using map file: lm-math
{/Users/wolf/ctx/tex/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/lm/lm-math.map}
fonts   : using map file: lm-rm
{/Users/wolf/ctx/tex/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/lm/lm-rm.map}
!pages  : flushing realpage 1, userpage 1, subpage 1
systems : end file selectfont-13 at line 8
system  : cont-err loaded
(/Users/wolf/ctx/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/cont-err.tex
systems : no file 'cont-sys.tex', using 'cont-sys.rme' instead
) )/Library/Fonts/ヒラギノ角ゴ Pro W3.otf/Library/Fonts/ヒラギノ明朝 Pro 
W3.otf/Users/wolf/ctx/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/lm/lmroman12-regular.otf

Wolfgang

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Re: [NTG-context] bold small caps with latin modern

[Peter Münster]

On Tue, Nov 18 2008, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

 On Tue, Nov 18 2008, Yue Wang wrote:

 you should apply a font feature to bold font.

 This is nonsense, the smallcaps for latin modern are
 a separate font like they had been in computer modern,
 trying to access them with font feature is useless.

 Besides this smallcaps are only available for the upright
 and the italic style but not for the bold.

What a pity...

With MKII and texlive, I could do this:

\definebodyfont[15pt,14pt,13pt,12pt,11pt,10pt,9pt,8pt,7pt,6pt,5pt]
[sc] [bf=cmbcsc10 sa 1, tf=cmcsc10 sa 1]
\pdfpkresolution=1200
\starttext
\sc Normal and \bf bold Small Caps.
\stoptext

But there seems to be no possibility to use bitmap fonts in the minimals.

Once, I've heard about workarounds, for example getting bold by double
printing with some displacement. Would this be possible?

Cheers, Peter

-- 
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Re: [NTG-context] bold small caps with latin modern

[Mojca Miklavec]

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Peter Münster wrote:

 But there seems to be no possibility to use bitmap fonts in the minimals.

Almost-on-purpose decision. (You can still add some binaries to
minimals yourself.)

 Once, I've heard about workarounds, for example getting bold by double
 printing with some displacement. Would this be possible?

Not by displacement, but you can use \starteffect[outer] in both mkii
and mkiv or some embolden option in XeTeX.

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] bold small caps with latin modern

[Peter Münster]

On Tue, Nov 18 2008, Yue Wang wrote:

 you should apply a font feature to bold font.

Oh! Cool! Thank you, Yue, you really help!
:-D

Cheers, Peter

-- 
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[NTG-context] bold small caps with latin modern

[Peter Münster]

Hello

Is it possible to get bold small caps with latin modern and MKIV, and if
yes, how?
I would like to get working this example file:

\starttext
\sc Normal and \bf bold Small Caps.
\stoptext

Thanks in advance for any help, Peter

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Re: [NTG-context] bold small caps with latin modern

[Yue Wang]

you should apply a font feature to bold font.

On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 4:07 AM, Peter Münster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello

 Is it possible to get bold small caps with latin modern and MKIV, and if
 yes, how?
 I would like to get working this example file:

 \starttext
 \sc Normal and \bf bold Small Caps.
 \stoptext

 Thanks in advance for any help, Peter

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[NTG-context] Fontfeatures and latin script

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Hi Hans,

why was 'script=latn' removed from the three predefined fontfeatures
default, oldstyle and smallcaps.

A lot of fonts (free and commercial) need these features to enable
kerning, ligatures and other features.

Regards,
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] Fontfeatures and latin script

[Taco Hoekwater]

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
 Hi Hans,
 
 why was 'script=latn' removed from the three predefined fontfeatures
 default, oldstyle and smallcaps.
 
 A lot of fonts (free and commercial) need these features to enable
 kerning, ligatures and other features.

The most important reason was that an explicit default like

   script=latn

will block any and all features in the font that depend on the
default script, and whether that is latn or cyrl or arab etc.
depends on the font. Phrased in another way: script=latn
discriminates against other scripts and fonts.

We are still searching for a better (=as automatic as possible)
solution.

Best wishes,
Taco  Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] Mapping to SmallCaps for Latin Modern

[Hans Hagen]

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
 Hi Hans,
 
 the mapping for the SmallCaps fonts from Latin Modern use the slanted version
 for upright and the upright version for slanted style.
 
 font-otf.tex:
 
 \definefontsynonym [LMRoman10-CapsRegular]
 [file:lmromancaps10-oblique] [features=default] % features=smallcaps?
 \definefontsynonym [LMRoman10-CapsOblique]
 [file:lmromancaps10-regular] [features=default]
 
 should be
 
 \definefontsynonym [LMRoman10-CapsRegular]
 [file:lmromancaps10-regular] [features=default]
 \definefontsynonym [LMRoman10-CapsOblique]
 [file:lmromancaps10-oblique] [features=default]
 
 
 
 The mapping for the Dunhill style seems to be wrong too.
 
 \definefontsynonym [LMRoman10-Dunhill]
 [file:lmromandunh10-oblique] [features=default]
 \definefontsynonym [LMRoman10-DunhillOblique]
 [file:lmromandunh10-regular] [features=default]

indeed, and Demi was also wrong

Hans

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   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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  | www.pragma-pod.nl
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[NTG-context] Mapping to SmallCaps for Latin Modern

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Hi Hans,

the mapping for the SmallCaps fonts from Latin Modern use the slanted version
for upright and the upright version for slanted style.

font-otf.tex:

\definefontsynonym [LMRoman10-CapsRegular]
[file:lmromancaps10-oblique] [features=default] % features=smallcaps?
\definefontsynonym [LMRoman10-CapsOblique]
[file:lmromancaps10-regular] [features=default]

should be

\definefontsynonym [LMRoman10-CapsRegular]
[file:lmromancaps10-regular] [features=default]
\definefontsynonym [LMRoman10-CapsOblique]
[file:lmromancaps10-oblique] [features=default]



The mapping for the Dunhill style seems to be wrong too.

\definefontsynonym [LMRoman10-Dunhill]
[file:lmromandunh10-oblique] [features=default]
\definefontsynonym [LMRoman10-DunhillOblique]
[file:lmromandunh10-regular] [features=default]


Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] Latin Modern bug in lm-texnansi-os.enc

[bop]

Hi,

 On the ConTeXT mailing list, Idris posted some messages because he was
 trying to use oldstyle numerals in the latest Latin Modern release,
 and was experiencing two pretty big problems:
 
* really bad kerning around the oldstyle numerals

We would be grateful if we could get more details (which font, which tfm,
which
encoding, pdftex or tex/dvips, on the screen or on the paper, etc.) My first
guess is that proportional figures were used with tabular metrics...

* pdftex generated errors for the typewriter fonts, complaining
  glyph `one.oldstyle' undefined etc.

Yeah... This is the result of our decision to comply with the currently
obeying
naming conventions (better to say: fashion). The oldstyle figures that appear
in
ts1 (text companion) encoding are actually *.taboldstyle; the names *.oldstyle
are reserved for proportional glyphs. We included also proportional oldstyle
figures in LMs (and in the TeX Gyre fonts).

 The implementation of 'automatic' oldstyle numbers in ConTeXt uses a
 set of encoding files that used to ship with LM (lm-xx-os.enc).
 By way of a map file fragment, this allows to switch the fonts
 'en masse' from lining to oldstyle (and back) without the need for
 special metric files, which is a pretty nice feature.

Don't understand -- the vertical oldstyle digits, in general, have different
metric data (tabular digits differ only with respect to vertical dimensions).
So, the replacement of the encoding implies the replacement of TFMs. Or I
misundersood something.
 
 Those encoding files now apparently obsolete: they still refer to
 glyphs named e.g. `one.oldstyle', whereas in the current release of
 the LM fonts it really should be `one.taboldstyle'.

Yes, as I explained above.

 While writing a bug report, I noticed that these encoding files are no
 longer in the font distribution

No. We have a lot enough of TFMs and I'd be reluctant to add more. The only
resort I can see is to use OTFs...

 Is this trick to get oldstyle now officially unsupported?

Rather not, I've just learned about it. ;-)

 because there are no oldstyle-using TFM files in the LM
 distribution either ...

There are. As I mentioned, ts1 encoding contains oldstyle tabular figures.
Perhaps accessing them needs other tricks, but as long as 256-glyph fonts are
to be used, some glyphs must be accessed clumsily. e.g., proportional digits
(normal and oldstyle).

Cheers -- Jacko
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Re: [NTG-context] Latin Modern bug in lm-texnansi-os.enc

[Taco Hoekwater]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,
 
 On the ConTeXT mailing list, Idris posted some messages because he was
 trying to use oldstyle numerals in the latest Latin Modern release,
 and was experiencing two pretty big problems:

* really bad kerning around the oldstyle numerals
 
 We would be grateful if we could get more details (which font, which tfm,
 which encoding, pdftex or tex/dvips, on the screen or on the paper, etc.)
 My first guess is that proportional figures were used with tabular metrics...

Yes, but see explanation below.

 The implementation of 'automatic' oldstyle numbers in ConTeXt uses a
 set of encoding files that used to ship with LM (lm-xx-os.enc).
 By way of a map file fragment, this allows to switch the fonts
 'en masse' from lining to oldstyle (and back) without the need for
 special metric files, which is a pretty nice feature.
 
 Don't understand -- the vertical oldstyle digits, in general, have different
 metric data (tabular digits differ only with respect to vertical dimensions).
 So, the replacement of the encoding implies the replacement of TFMs. Or I
 misundersood something.

How it used to work:

   The tabular lining figures are replaced by oldstyle figures by
   means of an encoding file only. This worked fine (because the
   oldstyle figures were tabular as well).

The height and depth are normally not all that important to TeX,
and with the widths the same, there was no need for a different
metrics file, just a single encoding file is enough to give all the
LM fonts oldstyle (tabular) figures instead of lining figures.

This trick broke when the tabular oldstyle figures were renamed
and proportional oldstyle figures were added (to the non-typewriter
fonts. Both problems Idris had came directly from that the fact
that these changes make the encoding file invalid:

* the perceived kerning is wrong because the actual proportional glyphs
   have different sidebearings, and
* the monospace fonts gave an error because the glyphs were renamed,
   so the requested glyphs were no longer existent at all.

 While writing a bug report, I noticed that these encoding files are no
 longer in the font distribution
 
 No. We have a lot enough of TFMs and I'd be reluctant to add more. The only
 resort I can see is to use OTFs...
 
 Is this trick to get oldstyle now officially unsupported?
 
 Rather not, I've just learned about it. ;-)

Yes, I understand that now. Well, can you please consider starting to
support it then? ;-)

 because there are no oldstyle-using TFM files in the LM
 distribution either ...
 
 There are. As I mentioned, ts1 encoding contains oldstyle tabular figures.
 Perhaps accessing them needs other tricks, but as long as 256-glyph fonts are
 to be used, some glyphs must be accessed clumsily. e.g., proportional digits
 (normal and oldstyle).
 

I know there are way to many TFM  files already, I don't want you to
ship dozens (hundreds?) of new ones. But from a user's point of view,
having to switch to a different encoding for each number is not what
I consider 'supporting oldstyle digits'.

The trick I explained above works surprisingly well (even if the figures
are tabular, not proportional). If I had realized that those encoding
files were not created by you yourself, I would not have bothered you
at all, as it was not your problem to begin with. But that's life ...

Cheers, Taco


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[NTG-context] Latin Modern bug in lm-texnansi-os.enc

[Taco Hoekwater]

Hi Jacko,

On the ConTeXT mailing list, Idris posted some messages because he was
trying to use oldstyle numerals in the latest Latin Modern release,
and was experiencing two pretty big problems:

   * really bad kerning around the oldstyle numerals
   * pdftex generated errors for the typewriter fonts, complaining
 glyph `one.oldstyle' undefined etc.

The implementation of 'automatic' oldstyle numbers in ConTeXt uses a
set of encoding files that used to ship with LM (lm-xx-os.enc).
By way of a map file fragment, this allows to switch the fonts
'en masse' from lining to oldstyle (and back) without the need for
special metric files, which is a pretty nice feature.

Those encoding files now apparently obsolete: they still refer to
glyphs named e.g. `one.oldstyle', whereas in the current release of
the LM fonts it really should be `one.taboldstyle'.

While writing a bug report, I noticed that these encoding files are no
longer in the font distribution (They are still included on texlive2007,
but I don't know if anybody  except ConTeXt attempts to use them).

Is this trick to get oldstyle now officially unsupported? That would
be a shame, because there are no oldstyle-using TFM files in the LM
distribution either ...

Best wishes,
Taco
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Re: [NTG-context] Latin Modern vs Ancient Greek module

[Alan Bowen]

The problem (see below) is solved by removing 3 lines
\usetypescript[lmodern][\defaultencoding]
\starttypescript[serif][default][size]
\stoptypescript

But I introduced these lines because, some time ago, I read in some  
manual that to get hanging punctuation and so forth with a font, it  
was necessary to invoke hanging punctuation before installing the font,

say, by writing
\usetypescript[serif,sans,mono,mm][hanging][normal]
\setupalign[hz,hanging]
\setupfootnotes[align={hz,hanging}]
—which meant that Latin Modern had to be reinstalled. This worked  
well for quite some time, but is it now no longer necessary to do  
this? My test document does seem to have hanging punctuation without  
re-installing Latin Modern, but I might be wrong about that.


Alan

On May 2, 2007, at 6:42 PM, Alan Bowen wrote:

The problem is that I no longer seem to be able to produce  
footnotes when the bodyfont is Latin Modern and I am using Thomas  
Schmitz’ ancientgreek module.


The following works but only when the two lines installing the  
ancientgreek module are commented out.


\usetypescript[lmodern][\defaultencoding]
\starttypescript[serif][default][size]
  \definebodyfont[9.5pt,10.5pt][rm][default]
  \definebodyfont[9.5pt,10.5pt][mm][default]
\stoptypescript

\setupbodyfont[lmodern,rm,10.5pt]

%\usemodule[ancientgreek][font=GreekOxoniensis,scale=1.15,%
%   altfont=GreekDioxipe,altscale=1.15]

\setupfootnotes[split=verystrict]
\setupfootnotes[conversion=numbers,
way=bytext,location=page,rule=on,bodyfont=9.5pt,style=normal]
\setupfootnotes[interaction=yes]
\setupnotedefinition[footnote][indenting={big,yes}]
\setupfootnotes[indenting=yes]

\starttext
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Morbi  
commodo, ipsum sed pharetra gravida, orci magna rhoncus neque, id  
pulvinar odio lorem non turpis. Aliquam erat volutpat.%

%
\footnote{Vivamus luctus elit sit amet mi.}
%
\stoptext

If these lines are not commented out, the error message is

! Font \nullfont has only 7 fontdimen parameters.
to be read again
   \advance
\dohighlow ...#2\textfont 2\else #3ex\fi \advance
  \scratchdimen  
#4ex \kern 


\dogotofixed ...c!color {#1\presetgoto }}}\else #1
  \fi }
\doifreferencefoundelse ...ce \ifreferencefound #2
  \else #3\fi  
\egroup \dores...


\gotobox ...2]} {\hbox {\unknownreference {#2}#1}}
  \referenceinfo {} 
{#2}\egr...

argument ...[\s!fnt :f:\internalfootreference ]}
  \fi \doifelse  
{\noteparame...

...
l.29 \footnote{
   Vivamus luctus elit sit amet mi.}

I am running ConTeXt  ver: 2007.04.17 12:51 MKII  fmt: 2007.4.24   
int: english/english. This is a new problem: it started wuite  
recently. And there is no problem if I use some font other than  
Latin Modern.


Any suggestions will be gratefully received.



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[NTG-context] Latin Modern vs Ancient Greek module

[Alan Bowen]

The problem is that I no longer seem to be able to produce footnotes  
when the bodyfont is Latin Modern and I am using the Thomas Schmitz’  
ancientgreek module.


The following works but only when the two lines installing the  
ancientgreek module are commented out.


\usetypescript[lmodern][\defaultencoding]
\starttypescript[serif][default][size]
  \definebodyfont[9.5pt,10.5pt][rm][default]
  \definebodyfont[9.5pt,10.5pt][mm][default]
\stoptypescript

\setupbodyfont[lmodern,rm,10.5pt]

%\usemodule[ancientgreek][font=GreekOxoniensis,scale=1.15,%
%   altfont=GreekDioxipe,altscale=1.15]

\setupfootnotes[split=verystrict]
\setupfootnotes[conversion=numbers,
way=bytext,location=page,rule=on,bodyfont=9.5pt,style=normal]
\setupfootnotes[interaction=yes]
\setupnotedefinition[footnote][indenting={big,yes}]
\setupfootnotes[indenting=yes]

\starttext
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Morbi  
commodo, ipsum sed pharetra gravida, orci magna rhoncus neque, id  
pulvinar odio lorem non turpis. Aliquam erat volutpat.%

%
\footnote{Vivamus luctus elit sit amet mi.}
%
\stoptext

If these lines are not commented out, the error message is

! Font \nullfont has only 7 fontdimen parameters.
to be read again
   \advance
\dohighlow ...#2\textfont 2\else #3ex\fi \advance
  \scratchdimen #4ex  
\kern 


\dogotofixed ...c!color {#1\presetgoto }}}\else #1
  \fi }
\doifreferencefoundelse ...ce \ifreferencefound #2
  \else #3\fi  
\egroup \dores...


\gotobox ...2]} {\hbox {\unknownreference {#2}#1}}
  \referenceinfo {} 
{#2}\egr...

argument ...[\s!fnt :f:\internalfootreference ]}
  \fi \doifelse  
{\noteparame...

...
l.29 \footnote{
   Vivamus luctus elit sit amet mi.}

I am running ConTeXt  ver: 2007.04.17 12:51 MKII  fmt: 2007.4.24   
int: english/english. This is a new problem: it started wuite  
recently. And there is no problem if I use some font other than Latin  
Modern.


Any suggestions will be gratefully received.



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Re: [NTG-context] XeTeX and Latin Modern

[Oliver Buerschaper]

 As I ran into the same problem I followed your instructions ...
 running the ctxtools command doesn't resolve it I'm afraid.

 $ kpsewhich lm-math.map
 /usr/local/gwTeX/texmf.texlive/fonts/map/dvips/lm/lm-math.map

 You should try that with --engine=dvipdfm , because dvipdfmx
 will find different files from the default setting

Did that with --engine=dvipdfm and --engine=dvipdfmx but kpsewhich  
spilled out the exact same path ... then out of curiosity I  
deliberately supplied a nonsense string (--engine=dvipdfmy) and still  
got the same result. Puzzling.

 So I issued

 $ ctxtools --dpx --force /usr/local/gwTeX/texmf.texlive
 CtxTools | provide proper texmfroot

 (as normal user and as root). Nothing happened :-( What did I do  
 wrong?

 Did you copy the map files from dvips/lm to pdftex/context ?

No, didn't copy anything. Should I've done that? I'm lost ...

Oliver
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Re: [NTG-context] XeTeX and Latin Modern

[Taco Hoekwater]

Oliver Buerschaper wrote:
 
 No, didn't copy anything. Should I've done that? I'm lost ...
 

Yes, you should have. Same original thread, second message
(I forgot to mention that in the original message)

Taco
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Re: [NTG-context] XeTeX and Latin Modern

[Helin Gai]

Problem solved.. Thanks so much for all of your input!!

Helin

On 2/7/07, Oliver Buerschaper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  No, didn't copy anything. Should I've done that? I'm lost ...
 
  Yes, you should have. Same original thread, second message
  (I forgot to mention that in the original message)

 Stupid me ... I didn't read on. Works excellently now. Thanks for
 your help.

 Oliver
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Box 96332
Durham, NC 27708
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hg9 at duke.edu
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Re: [NTG-context] XeTeX and Latin Modern

[Oliver Buerschaper]

Hi Taco,

 I got a new problem after upgrading to the new ConTeXt.
 When I compile a document with the xetex engine, during the xdvipdfmx
 processing, I got the following message, and all the math symbols are
 missing:

 Please see this thread:

 http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/ 
 20070130.082837.4bc51f61.en.html

As I ran into the same problem I followed your instructions ...  
running the ctxtools command doesn't resolve it I'm afraid.

$ kpsewhich lm-math.map
/usr/local/gwTeX/texmf.texlive/fonts/map/dvips/lm/lm-math.map

So I issued

$ ctxtools --dpx --force /usr/local/gwTeX/texmf.texlive
CtxTools | provide proper texmfroot

(as normal user and as root). Nothing happened :-( What did I do wrong?

Best,
Oliver
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Re: [NTG-context] XeTeX and Latin Modern

[Helin Gai]

I think the problem is specifically related to the configuration of
xdvipdfmx, cuz xdv2pdf obviously has no problem at all... Any other
ideas?

Thanks a lot!

Helin

On 2/6/07, Helin Gai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Taco,

 Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, I've already read the email,
 and I've updated the Latin Modern package, run ctxtools, pretty much
 all that I can think of... Just couldn't fix it.

 Best,
 Helin

 On 2/6/07, Oliver Buerschaper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hi Taco,
 
   I got a new problem after upgrading to the new ConTeXt.
   When I compile a document with the xetex engine, during the xdvipdfmx
   processing, I got the following message, and all the math symbols are
   missing:
  
   Please see this thread:
  
   http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/
   20070130.082837.4bc51f61.en.html
 
  As I ran into the same problem I followed your instructions ...
  running the ctxtools command doesn't resolve it I'm afraid.
 
  $ kpsewhich lm-math.map
  /usr/local/gwTeX/texmf.texlive/fonts/map/dvips/lm/lm-math.map
 
  So I issued
 
  $ ctxtools --dpx --force /usr/local/gwTeX/texmf.texlive
  CtxTools | provide proper texmfroot
 
  (as normal user and as root). Nothing happened :-( What did I do wrong?
 
  Best,
  Oliver
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 Helin (Colin) Gai
 Class of 2009, Duke University
 Box 96332
 Durham, NC 27708
 Phone:  919-943-6302
 helin.gai at gmail.com
 hg9 at duke.edu



-- 
Helin (Colin) Gai
Class of 2009, Duke University
Box 96332
Durham, NC 27708
Phone:  919-943-6302
helin.gai at gmail.com
hg9 at duke.edu
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Re: [NTG-context] XeTeX and Latin Modern

[Helin Gai]

Hi Taco,

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, I've already read the email,
and I've updated the Latin Modern package, run ctxtools, pretty much
all that I can think of... Just couldn't fix it.

Best,
Helin

On 2/6/07, Oliver Buerschaper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Taco,

  I got a new problem after upgrading to the new ConTeXt.
  When I compile a document with the xetex engine, during the xdvipdfmx
  processing, I got the following message, and all the math symbols are
  missing:
 
  Please see this thread:
 
  http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/
  20070130.082837.4bc51f61.en.html

 As I ran into the same problem I followed your instructions ...
 running the ctxtools command doesn't resolve it I'm afraid.

 $ kpsewhich lm-math.map
 /usr/local/gwTeX/texmf.texlive/fonts/map/dvips/lm/lm-math.map

 So I issued

 $ ctxtools --dpx --force /usr/local/gwTeX/texmf.texlive
 CtxTools | provide proper texmfroot

 (as normal user and as root). Nothing happened :-( What did I do wrong?

 Best,
 Oliver
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-- 
Helin (Colin) Gai
Class of 2009, Duke University
Box 96332
Durham, NC 27708
Phone:  919-943-6302
helin.gai at gmail.com
hg9 at duke.edu
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[NTG-context] XeTeX and Latin Modern

[Helin Gai]

Hi all,

I got a new problem after upgrading to the new ConTeXt.
When I compile a document with the xetex engine, during the xdvipdfmx
processing, I got the following message, and all the math symbols are
missing:

** WARNING ** This .map file looks like a dvips format fotmap file.
** WARNING ** -- Current input buffer is: ec-lmb10 LMRoman10-Demi
enclmec ReEncodeFont lm-ec.enc lmb10.pfb
** WARNING ** -- Reading fontmap file stopped at: file=lm-ec.map, line=7.
** WARNING ** This .map file looks like a dvips format fotmap file.
** WARNING ** -- Current input buffer is: lmbsy5
LMMathSymbols5-BoldItalicenclmmathsy ReEncodeFont
lm-mathsy.enc  lmbsy5.pfb
** WARNING ** -- Reading fontmap file stopped at: file=lm-math.map, line=7.
]
** WARNING ** Glyph (null) missing in font LMMathSymbols10-Italic.
** WARNING ** Glyph (null) missing in font LMMathSymbols10-Italic.

I've already installed the latest Latin Modern. I tried to run
ctxtools, after which nothing works any more... Any input will be
appreciated. Thanks!

Colin

-- 
Helin (Colin) Gai
Class of 2009, Duke University
Box 96332
Durham, NC 27708
Phone:  919-943-6302
helin.gai at gmail.com
hg9 at duke.edu
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Re: [NTG-context] XeTeX and Latin Modern

[Taco Hoekwater]

Helin Gai wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 I got a new problem after upgrading to the new ConTeXt.
 When I compile a document with the xetex engine, during the xdvipdfmx
 processing, I got the following message, and all the math symbols are
 missing:

Please see this thread:

http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20070130.082837.4bc51f61.en.html

Best, Taco
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Re: [NTG-context] t-greek module and Latin Modern

[Alan Bowen]

Hans—

Here is another error message that appeared in compiling a file  that  
re-installs Latin Modern and uses Thomas’ module for ancient Greek.

references  : unknown reference [][fnt:t:1]
references  : unknown reference [][fnt:f:1]
! Font \nullfont has only 7 fontdimen parameters.
to be read again
\advance
\dohighlow ...#2\textfont 2\else #3ex\fi \advance
   \scratchdimen #4ex  
\kern 
argument ...ednote \v!nextpage \v!previouspage }
   }
\doifreferencefoundelse ...ferencefound #2\else #3
   \fi \egroup  
\doresetgotowh...

\gotobox ...2]} {\hbox {\unknownreference {#2}#1}}
   \referentieinfo {} 
{#2}\eg...
argument ...[\s!fnt :f:\internalfootreference ]}
   \fi \doifelse  
{\noteparame...
...
l.39 \footnote{
\grk{'alfa ka`i b~hta}.}
?

The source file (below) was the same as before. The only change is  
that I am now using ConTeXt  ver: 2006.05.28 13:28  fmt: 2006.5.30

Alan

Source file:

\enableregime[mac]

\usetypescript[serif,sans,mono,mm][hanging][normal]
\setupalign[hz,hanging]
\setupfootnotes[align={hz,hanging}]

\setupencoding[default=ec]

\setupbodyfontenvironment[default][em=italic]

\starttypescript[serif][default][size]
\definebodyfont[10.5pt,9.5pt][rm][default]
\definebodyfont[10.5pt,9.5pt][mm][default]
\stoptypescript

\setupfontsynonym[Serif][handling=normal]

\setupbodyfont[modern,10.5pt]

\setupfootnotes[conversion=numbers,
way=bytext,location=page,rule=on,bodyfont=9.5pt,style=normal]

\usemodule[ancientgreek] 
[font=Alkaios,scale=0.9,altfont=GreekOxoniensis,altscale=0.9]
\setupfontsynonym[Alkaios][handling=grkpure]
\setupfontsynonym[GreekOxoniensis][handling=grkpure]

\def\grk{\localgreek}
\def\altgrk{\localaltgreek}



\starttext

\grk{'alfa ka`i b~hta}. The cow flew over the Moon.%
%
\footnote{\grk{'alfa ka`i b~hta}.}

\stoptext
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Re: [NTG-context] t-greek module and Latin Modern

[Alan Bowen]

Hans—

I have updated everything, I think, including Thomas’ Greek module.  
Now, in processing a file with Greek, the error messages are like the  
one below:

! Arithmetic overflow.
\dododefineprotrudefactor ...\font \fi \fi \relax
   \rpcode  
\handledfont #1\di...

\dosetpairhandling ...ng \let \char \normalchar }}
   \fi
inserted text ...ododefineprotrudefactor ! 0 .2
   \dosetpairhandling  
\dodode...

\next1 ...csname \the \csname [EMAIL PROTECTED]@ #1\endcsname
   \fi
\rawprocesscommaitem ...commalevel \endcsname {#1}
   \expandafter  
\rawprocessco...
argument punctuation,a
 lpha,extended
...
l.67 ...wn embol'imwn hmer~wn d/ ep'ages\-jai.}
[8.44] \grk 
{'ojen ou de...

The setup used in producing this error message is:

\enableregime[mac]

\usetypescript[serif,sans,mono,mm][hanging][normal]
\setupalign[hz,hanging]
\setupfootnotes[align={hz,hanging}]

\setupencoding[default=ec]

\starttypescript[serif][default][size]
\definebodyfont[10.5pt,9.5pt][rm][default]
\definebodyfont[10.5pt,9.5pt][mm][default]
\stoptypescript

\setupfontsynonym[Serif][handling=normal]

\setupbodyfont[modern,10.5pt]

\setupfootnotes[conversion=numbers,
way=bytext,location=page,rule=on,bodyfont=9.5pt,style=normal]

\usemodule[ancientgreek] 
[font=Alkaios,scale=0.9,altfont=GreekOxoniensis,altscale=0.9]
\setupfontsynonym[Alkaios][handling=grkpure]
\setupfontsynonym[GreekOxoniensis][handling=grkpure]

\def\grk{\localgreek}
\def\altgrk{\localaltgreek}

Alan

On May 27, 2006, at 8:25 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

 Alan Bowen wrote:

 *B.*
 If I *do* reinstall the Latin Modern, I get �Arithmetic overflow
 errors� when there is Greek in the footnotes. My code for this is:
 hwo does the error message look?

 (the metrics of cm and lm are the same but there may be additional  
 glyohs)

 Hans

 -
   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
  tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
  | www.pragma-pod.nl
 -

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Re: [NTG-context] t-greek module and Latin Modern

[Hans Hagen]

Alan Bowen wrote:

 *B.*
 If I *do* reinstall the Latin Modern, I get �Arithmetic overflow 
 errors� when there is Greek in the footnotes. My code for this is:
hwo does the error message look? 

(the metrics of cm and lm are the same but there may be additional glyohs) 

Hans 

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
 tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
 | www.pragma-pod.nl
-

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[NTG-context] t-greek module and Latin Modern

[Alan Bowen]

Hans and all other font wizards—Thomas and I have been stumped by problem that arises when one re-installs Latin Modern (in order to get margin kerning) and uses the t-greek module. Thomas suspects that Latin Modern, being a "clone" of Computer Modern, comes in different design sizes and uses slightly different fonts for different sizes. This setup breaks when the t-greek module expects to have a completely scalable font. But this is only a guess, as he says.The problem may be described as follows:A.If I do not re-install Latin Modern (and thus forego margin kerning and so forth), there is no problem: I can vary the typesize of the footnotes and insert Greek at will. I use the following code for this:\setupencoding[default=ec] \setupbodyfontenvironment[default][em=italic]\definebodyfont[10.5pt][rm][default]\setupbodyfont[modern,10.5pt]\setupfootnotes[conversion=numbers,	way=bytext,location=page,rule=on,bodyfont=9.5pt,style=normal]\usemodule[t-greek]\setupfontsynonym[Alkaios][handling=grkpure]\setupfontsynonym[GreekOxoniensis][handling=grkpure]\setupgreek[font=Alkaios,altfont=GreekOxoniensis,scale=0.9]B.If I do reinstall the Latin Modern, I get “Arithmetic overflow errors” when there is Greek in the footnotes. My code for this is:\setupencoding[default=texnansi] \starttypescript[serif][default][size]  \definebodyfont[10.5pt][rm][default]	%  \definebodyfont[10.5pt][mm][default]\stoptypescript\setupfontsynonym[Serif][handling=normal]\usetypescript[modern][texnansi]\setupbodyfont[modern,10.5pt]\setupfootnotes[conversion=numbers,	way=bytext,location=page,rule=on,bodyfont=9.5pt,style=normal]\usemodule[t-greek]\setupfontsynonym[GreekOxoniensis][handling=greekpure]\setupfontsynonym[GreekDioxipe][handling=greekpure]\setupgreek[font=GreekOxoniensis,scale=1.15]\setupgreek[altfont=GreekDioxipe,scale=1.15]But remove the Greek from the notes and all is well.Note that inserting     \definebodyfont[10.5pt,9.5pt][rm][default]at the line			(above) fails with the same error message even when there is no Greek in the footnotes.If you have any suggestions on this, we would be grateful to receive them. All best, Alan___
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Re: [NTG-context] Spacing problem (mixing Chinese with Latin characters)

[Hans Hagen]

Tobias Burnus wrote:


Hello,

Hans Hagen wrote:


Tobias Burnus wrote:

if I type [chinese] the output is [chinesespace]. (Example 
attached.)


no example  here


Here it is. One has too look closely to the spacing, but the   
before ] is clearly visible.
I had also the problem in a mixed text (lot of Latin characters, 
Chinese character + ; that there was a line break before the ;.


seems that there is a problem with lookahead and testing

i'll send you a quick hack

Hans
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