Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Larry Colen]

Jos de Fotograaf wrote:

This weekend my country (Netherlands) moved to summer time (DST)

I could have changed the clock of my K1 the easy way by just set the
clock 1 hour later.

I decided to let it happen automatically.

In the menu I selected "GPS time sync"

Then I switched on GPS logging and left it on for one hour.

After that, the time was still not corrected.

What did I do wrong?


Jos,

I've been bitten by this myself.  clicking the DST box just offsets the 
time recorded by an hour.  You have to enable/disable it yourself based 
on the local legislation regarding DST.


GPS time sync just allows your camera's clock to be very accurately set, 
this is really handy when you are shooting with multiple cameras and 
want the photos accurately in chronological sequence. Modulo, of course, 
the problem that photos taken in the same second may not be ordered 
properly in lightroom.





Greetz, Jos




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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST? Problem solved!

[Jos de Fotograaf]

That is clear to me, Jan, at first sight I am thinking that the time 
table info could be easily modulated on the GPS signal.


I could not find detailed specification of the system and signals.

Greetz, Jos


On 28-Mar-17 14:42, Jan van Wijk wrote:

Hallo Jos,

On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 11:19:56 +0200 Jos de Fotograaf wrote:

_Is DST in the GPS info itself?_

No


Some members suggested that the camera needs look-up tables to see DST data of 
specific countries.
I am not so sure about that.

You need either DST tables (combined with timezone info), OR manual setting of 
DST yes/no


I did not get a clear answer from Google.
But, GPS was designed for military purposes, it contains time information, so 
why not also DST data?

The GPS sattelite(s) don't know where YOU are, they only send an encoded very
exact TIME signal which can be received everywhere the sattelite is 'visible'

Your GPS device can then calculate its position by comparing time-differences
as received from multiple sattelites (closest sattelite is received first :)

The decoded time will be available to the GPS device this way, but it is UTC 
time.
The device needs to convert that to local time using timezone + DST information.


For military on the ground it can be crucial to know the exact local time.
Even when all other systems fail.

Yes, but the GPS only supplies UTC times.

BTW: In large scale military operations, they often use UTC times directly,
it used to be called ZULU time, for ZERO deviation from the ZERO-meridian time 
:)


_Well, all together it took me a lot more time, than simply adapting the clock 
manually! But I gained knowledge!

Indeed, I checked my K3, it did not have DST checked either (fixed now).

It is important to set that correctly, otherwise the 'Sync' done by the GPS 
unit will set
the time wrong (since the conversion from UTC to local-time will be off by 1 
hour)

I have had that happening a few times, setting it manually, then seeing it 
change
automatically as soon as the GPS unit gets a proper connection :)

Regards, JvW

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Flickr : jvw_pentax





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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST? Problem solved!

[Jan van Wijk]

Hallo Jos,

On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 11:19:56 +0200 Jos de Fotograaf wrote:
>
>_Is DST in the GPS info itself?_

No 

>Some members suggested that the camera needs look-up tables to see DST data of 
>specific countries.
>I am not so sure about that.

You need either DST tables (combined with timezone info), OR manual setting of 
DST yes/no

>I did not get a clear answer from Google.
>But, GPS was designed for military purposes, it contains time information, so 
>why not also DST data?

The GPS sattelite(s) don't know where YOU are, they only send an encoded very 
exact TIME signal which can be received everywhere the sattelite is 'visible'

Your GPS device can then calculate its position by comparing time-differences
as received from multiple sattelites (closest sattelite is received first :)

The decoded time will be available to the GPS device this way, but it is UTC 
time.
The device needs to convert that to local time using timezone + DST information.

>For military on the ground it can be crucial to know the exact local time.
>Even when all other systems fail.

Yes, but the GPS only supplies UTC times.

BTW: In large scale military operations, they often use UTC times directly, 
it used to be called ZULU time, for ZERO deviation from the ZERO-meridian time 
:) 

>_Well, all together it took me a lot more time, than simply adapting the clock 
>manually! But I gained knowledge!

Indeed, I checked my K3, it did not have DST checked either (fixed now).

It is important to set that correctly, otherwise the 'Sync' done by the GPS 
unit will set 
the time wrong (since the conversion from UTC to local-time will be off by 1 
hour)

I have had that happening a few times, setting it manually, then seeing it 
change
automatically as soon as the GPS unit gets a proper connection :)

Regards, JvW

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Flickr : jvw_pentax


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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST? Problem solved!

[Jos de Fotograaf]

_Problem solved!_

In the GPS/Compass menu I checked the "GPS time sync" box, I thought 
this should give automatic DST switching.


But in the "World time" menu, I have home town Amsterdam and destination 
Amsterdam, then if you go one menu deeper, there is a check box for DST.


Checking this box immediately switched the time to summertime!

_Why correct time with pictures matters for me

_From the group reactions I see that many members only care about the 
correct date._
_Often I take outdoor pictures with the position of the sun not optimal 
for preferred lighting.
For a remake later, I use the time to estimate how many hours earlier or 
later I have to be there.


_Is DST in the GPS info itself?_

Some members suggested that the camera needs look-up tables to see DST 
data of specific countries.

I am not so sure about that.
I did not get a clear answer from Google.
But, GPS was designed for military purposes, it contains time 
information, so why not also DST data?

For military on the ground it can be crucial to know the exact local time.
Even when all other systems fail.
_
_Well, all together it took me a lot more time, than simply adapting the 
clock manually! But I gained knowledge!

Thanks for all responds!
_
_
On 28-Mar-17 02:54, Zos Xavius wrote:

Yes it would use UTC most likely. I must add that none of my cameras
have ever transitioned to DST automatically. Maybe I am using it wrong
somehow? Ok. I just looked at my K-3 and though it was set to Chicago
as the city it never changed. It does have DST highlighted though next
to it so I'm confused frankly why it wouldn't kick over. Changing the
home city to NYC adjusted the time ahead one hour, but I think that is
just because I moved the time zone.

Yeah I set it to LA and it changed the time again. Toggling DST on and
off changes the time as well. I think you have to manually enable it.
I just have it on all the time and change my time as necessary. My K-3
was actually set to the wrong time. Not like it really matters to be
honest. I care far more about the date.

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 4:38 PM, P. J. Alling
 wrote:

Well, yes and no.  If you look at that standard Time/Date structure, (Gaud
this is getting into the weeds), if the software is using it correctly it's
stores UTC a flag and an offset to get the local time.  I assume that the OS
used by the camera includes a Time/Date object.  I also assume it stores the
Timestamp in the "standard" manner.  So yes it stores the data in UTC.



On 3/27/2017 4:03 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:

Yes, I know. That makes it not UTC.


On 27 Mar 2017, at 20:51, P. J. Alling 
wrote:

It pretty much is on UTC.  The current time zone is just an offset based
on the home city.



On 3/27/2017 3:39 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:
If I had a camera that had gps I would just let it record everything as
UTC rather than try to account for different places. It makes life easier -
one less thing to clutter my head with. In fact even without gps I think I
just leave them on UTC.


On 27 Mar 2017, at 19:15, Jos de Fotograaf 
wrote:

Stan, your explanation of GPS sounds logic, thks.

The GPS is also used when shooting ASTRO, but I did not try that yet.

I will check with Ricoh/Pentax why there would be no DST timetable for
the Netherlands. As they should know US could be first but Netherlands are
second!

Anyhow, I will not wait for the software update, but change the time
manually.

Greetz, Jos


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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Zos Xavius]

Yes it would use UTC most likely. I must add that none of my cameras
have ever transitioned to DST automatically. Maybe I am using it wrong
somehow? Ok. I just looked at my K-3 and though it was set to Chicago
as the city it never changed. It does have DST highlighted though next
to it so I'm confused frankly why it wouldn't kick over. Changing the
home city to NYC adjusted the time ahead one hour, but I think that is
just because I moved the time zone.

Yeah I set it to LA and it changed the time again. Toggling DST on and
off changes the time as well. I think you have to manually enable it.
I just have it on all the time and change my time as necessary. My K-3
was actually set to the wrong time. Not like it really matters to be
honest. I care far more about the date.

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 4:38 PM, P. J. Alling
 wrote:
> Well, yes and no.  If you look at that standard Time/Date structure, (Gaud
> this is getting into the weeds), if the software is using it correctly it's
> stores UTC a flag and an offset to get the local time.  I assume that the OS
> used by the camera includes a Time/Date object.  I also assume it stores the
> Timestamp in the "standard" manner.  So yes it stores the data in UTC.
>
>
>
> On 3/27/2017 4:03 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I know. That makes it not UTC.
>>
>>> On 27 Mar 2017, at 20:51, P. J. Alling 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> It pretty much is on UTC.  The current time zone is just an offset based
>>> on the home city.
>>>
>>>
 On 3/27/2017 3:39 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:
 If I had a camera that had gps I would just let it record everything as
 UTC rather than try to account for different places. It makes life easier -
 one less thing to clutter my head with. In fact even without gps I think I
 just leave them on UTC.

> On 27 Mar 2017, at 19:15, Jos de Fotograaf 
> wrote:
>
> Stan, your explanation of GPS sounds logic, thks.
>
> The GPS is also used when shooting ASTRO, but I did not try that yet.
>
> I will check with Ricoh/Pentax why there would be no DST timetable for
> the Netherlands. As they should know US could be first but Netherlands are
> second!
>
> Anyhow, I will not wait for the software update, but change the time
> manually.
>
> Greetz, Jos
>
>>>
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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[P. J. Alling]

Well, yes and no.  If you look at that standard Time/Date structure, 
(Gaud this is getting into the weeds), if the software is using it 
correctly it's stores UTC a flag and an offset to get the local time.  I 
assume that the OS used by the camera includes a Time/Date object.  I 
also assume it stores the Timestamp in the "standard" manner.  So yes it 
stores the data in UTC.



On 3/27/2017 4:03 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:

Yes, I know. That makes it not UTC.


On 27 Mar 2017, at 20:51, P. J. Alling  wrote:

It pretty much is on UTC.  The current time zone is just an offset based on the 
home city.



On 3/27/2017 3:39 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:
If I had a camera that had gps I would just let it record everything as UTC 
rather than try to account for different places. It makes life easier - one 
less thing to clutter my head with. In fact even without gps I think I just 
leave them on UTC.


On 27 Mar 2017, at 19:15, Jos de Fotograaf  wrote:

Stan, your explanation of GPS sounds logic, thks.

The GPS is also used when shooting ASTRO, but I did not try that yet.

I will check with Ricoh/Pentax why there would be no DST timetable for the 
Netherlands. As they should know US could be first but Netherlands are second!

Anyhow, I will not wait for the software update, but change the time manually.

Greetz, Jos



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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Stanley Halpin]

Many times when I travel across time zones (a) I don’t have GPS time activated, 
and (b) I don’t remember to adjust the clock. So I wind up with a bunch of 
files which are offset -5 hours. And I have considered just leaving it that 
way. However I often search through my photos with a time in mind (e.g., 
looking for the shot of the inside of the restaurant where we had lunch) and I 
would just as soon let the camera tag the proper time on the files so I don’t 
have to remember that lunch happened at 1230 local which was 0730 on the 
camera’s clock. Or had we gone far enough west that local 1230 was now 0830? I 
just find it easier to track if the files, use local time. So when I do forget 
to have the camera do its time adjustment thing, I always do a batch correction 
later in Lightroom.

stan

> On Mar 27, 2017, at 3:39 PM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
> 
> If I had a camera that had gps I would just let it record everything as UTC 
> rather than try to account for different places. It makes life easier - one 
> less thing to clutter my head with. In fact even without gps I think I just 
> leave them on UTC.
> 
>> On 27 Mar 2017, at 19:15, Jos de Fotograaf  wrote:
>> 
>> Stan, your explanation of GPS sounds logic, thks.
>> 
>> The GPS is also used when shooting ASTRO, but I did not try that yet.
>> 
>> I will check with Ricoh/Pentax why there would be no DST timetable for the 
>> Netherlands. As they should know US could be first but Netherlands are 
>> second!
>> 
>> Anyhow, I will not wait for the software update, but change the time 
>> manually.
>> 
>> Greetz, Jos
>> 


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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Matthew Hunt]

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 3:59 PM, P. J. Alling
 wrote:

> However the problem seems to be that
> setting that flag on Jos' camera doesn't work, or maybe I completely
> misunderstood the issue.

I don't think Jos has changed the DST checkbox manually; at least he
hasn't indicated that he has. I expect that checking the DST box will
give the correct time (until fall, at least).

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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Bob W-PDML]

Yes, I know. That makes it not UTC.

> On 27 Mar 2017, at 20:51, P. J. Alling  wrote:
> 
> It pretty much is on UTC.  The current time zone is just an offset based on 
> the home city.
> 
> 
>> On 3/27/2017 3:39 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:
>> If I had a camera that had gps I would just let it record everything as UTC 
>> rather than try to account for different places. It makes life easier - one 
>> less thing to clutter my head with. In fact even without gps I think I just 
>> leave them on UTC.
>> 
>>> On 27 Mar 2017, at 19:15, Jos de Fotograaf  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Stan, your explanation of GPS sounds logic, thks.
>>> 
>>> The GPS is also used when shooting ASTRO, but I did not try that yet.
>>> 
>>> I will check with Ricoh/Pentax why there would be no DST timetable for the 
>>> Netherlands. As they should know US could be first but Netherlands are 
>>> second!
>>> 
>>> Anyhow, I will not wait for the software update, but change the time 
>>> manually.
>>> 
>>> Greetz, Jos
>>> 
> 
> 
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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[P. J. Alling]

You're right, about the automatic DST change.  You have to change the 
DST flag to display DST.  I was wrong, at least about the K-5II.  I'm 
not going to charge a battery for the K20D to test that or go through 
the rigamarole that's required to get the *istDs or D working just to 
them.  I think they had automatic updating but who knows.  However it 
probably does have lookup table to set the correct offset from UTC based 
on city, or it has a very naive method of changing to DST, by just 
adding an hour to the display.   At this point I don't really care.  
However the problem seems to be that setting that flag on Jos' camera 
doesn't work, or maybe I completely misunderstood the issue.  If the 
lookup table does exist implementing automatic update would be trivial, 
and the kind of thing that would be done "for free".



On 3/27/2017 3:37 PM, Matthew Hunt wrote:

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 3:15 PM, P. J. Alling
 wrote:


The K-5II does, the K20D does, the *ist-Ds does, though it's set in North
America at least to a hopelessly out dated change time, as is the *ist-D.

My K10D, K-7, and K-5 II, set to New York, have never automatically
transitioned DST. I have a calendar reminder to do it when the clocks
change. The camera is never correct until I change the DST checkbox.

Here's a PentaxForums thread stating that there is no automatic DST changeover:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/342442-camera-time-dst.html


Stan's description of how his two K-1's behave are consistent with that.

Stan's description is consistent with having to check the DST box when
DST is in effect.




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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[P. J. Alling]

It pretty much is on UTC.  The current time zone is just an offset based 
on the home city.



On 3/27/2017 3:39 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:

If I had a camera that had gps I would just let it record everything as UTC 
rather than try to account for different places. It makes life easier - one 
less thing to clutter my head with. In fact even without gps I think I just 
leave them on UTC.


On 27 Mar 2017, at 19:15, Jos de Fotograaf  wrote:

Stan, your explanation of GPS sounds logic, thks.

The GPS is also used when shooting ASTRO, but I did not try that yet.

I will check with Ricoh/Pentax why there would be no DST timetable for the 
Netherlands. As they should know US could be first but Netherlands are second!

Anyhow, I will not wait for the software update, but change the time manually.

Greetz, Jos




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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Bob W-PDML]

Our Prime Minister fires the official starting gun for Brexit tomorrow. It's 
going to be interesting in two years when the actual exit happens to see how we 
will cope with setting the clocks back to 1972. I wonder if Little Jimmy Osmond 
will still be no. 1 in the pop charts.

> On 27 Mar 2017, at 19:15, Jos de Fotograaf  wrote:
> 
> Stan, your explanation of GPS sounds logic, thks.
> 
> The GPS is also used when shooting ASTRO, but I did not try that yet.
> 
> I will check with Ricoh/Pentax why there would be no DST timetable for the 
> Netherlands. As they should know US could be first but Netherlands are second!
> 
> Anyhow, I will not wait for the software update, but change the time manually.
> 
> Greetz, Jos
> 
> 
>> On 27-Mar-17 17:09, Stanley Halpin wrote:
>> Jos, my understanding is that the K-1 GPS Logging has nothing to do with 
>> photography. It allows you to treat your camera as though it were a GPS 
>> handheld device, but it is not connected to your basic camera functions.
>> 
>> With Logging, a subroutine in the firmware will periodically query the GPS 
>> chip, and will store the indicated location information in a file. If you 
>> are hiking through a forest, if you set the interval to 30 seconds or 1 
>> minute you would be able to store a fairly continuous track of your path. It 
>> is a separate file on one of your cards, I believe it is not in your image 
>> folder. Later you can extract that Track and read it in various 
>> tracking/logging software. If you were driving you might want an interval of 
>> only 5 seconds. But of course the shorter the interval, the more processing 
>> you are asking for, and thus the more demands you are making on your battery.
>> 
>> The photography (main) system in your camera does not need and does not use 
>> GPS Logging. It only reads and stores GPS data as needed. If you have GPS 
>> turned on, then when you take a picture the photography system will query 
>> the GPS chip and will record location, direction etc information within the 
>> EXiF for that captured image.
>> 
>> Of course, I may be wrong, I was once wrong (maybe twice) and it might 
>> happen again at any time. But I believe the above is correct…
>> 
>> Back on the question of DST, I agree with the others’ comments - I don’t 
>> think there is anything physically wrong with your camera, but rather the 
>> problem is with the camera firmware and its ability to maintain an internal 
>> database of the various time standards in various regions. One simple answer 
>> might be to verify that you have the latest firmware. But I know that I have 
>> been in many situations where the auto-set time on various GPS capable 
>> devices has simply been wrong.
>> 
>> stan
>> 
>>> On Mar 27, 2017, at 10:35 AM, Jos de Fotograaf  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Stanley, thks. So it should work. I will contact local Pentax for info.
>>> 
>>> Maybe you can help in understanding the GPS.
>>> 
>>> What does the camera do when GPS logging is on?
>>> 
>>> Reasoning behind selecting a certain logging interval and duration?
>>> 
>>> Greetz, Jos
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 27-Mar-17 15:16, Stanley Halpin wrote:
 I just checked mine. Both have GPS Time Sync turned on. On my primary K-1, 
 I had DST checked. The indicated time was correct. On my backup, I had not 
 checked DST in the Time submenu. The indicated time was off by one hour. I 
 checked the DST Checkbox, the time immediately adjusted to the correct DST 
 local time.
 
 So, not sure what the issue is with yours, but it does seem that it is 
 working for me.
 
 stan
 
> On Mar 27, 2017, at 8:46 AM, Jos de Fotograaf  
> wrote:
> 
> This weekend my country (Netherlands) moved to summer time (DST)
> 
> I could have changed the clock of my K1 the easy way by just set the 
> clock 1 hour later.
> 
> I decided to let it happen automatically.
> 
> In the menu I selected "GPS time sync"
> 
> Then I switched on GPS logging and left it on for one hour.
> 
> After that, the time was still not corrected.
> 
> What did I do wrong?
> 
> Greetz, Jos
> 
> 
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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Bob W-PDML]

If I had a camera that had gps I would just let it record everything as UTC 
rather than try to account for different places. It makes life easier - one 
less thing to clutter my head with. In fact even without gps I think I just 
leave them on UTC.

> On 27 Mar 2017, at 19:15, Jos de Fotograaf  wrote:
> 
> Stan, your explanation of GPS sounds logic, thks.
> 
> The GPS is also used when shooting ASTRO, but I did not try that yet.
> 
> I will check with Ricoh/Pentax why there would be no DST timetable for the 
> Netherlands. As they should know US could be first but Netherlands are second!
> 
> Anyhow, I will not wait for the software update, but change the time manually.
> 
> Greetz, Jos
> 
>> 

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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Matthew Hunt]

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 3:15 PM, P. J. Alling
 wrote:

> The K-5II does, the K20D does, the *ist-Ds does, though it's set in North
> America at least to a hopelessly out dated change time, as is the *ist-D.

My K10D, K-7, and K-5 II, set to New York, have never automatically
transitioned DST. I have a calendar reminder to do it when the clocks
change. The camera is never correct until I change the DST checkbox.

Here's a PentaxForums thread stating that there is no automatic DST changeover:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/342442-camera-time-dst.html

> Stan's description of how his two K-1's behave are consistent with that.

Stan's description is consistent with having to check the DST box when
DST is in effect.

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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[P. J. Alling]

The K-5II does, the K20D does, the *ist-Ds does, though it's set in 
North America at least to a hopelessly out dated change time, as is the 
*ist-D.  Stan's description of how his two K-1's behave are consistent 
with that.  So I think I'm pretty safe in assuming that the K-1 will, if 
working properly, update DST based on what you've set the home city to 
or the travel destination city to in world time.  There is obviously a 
DST offset table for each of the cities in in the world time setting.



On 3/27/2017 3:00 PM, Matthew Hunt wrote:

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 2:49 PM, P. J. Alling
 wrote:


So there are a few possibilities.  You set your home city to someplace that
has the same offset from GMT/UTC as WET but doesn't observe DST, or you've
set the camera to think you're traveling to such a city.  or there's a
firmware or hardware fault in your camera, since I doubt that Ricoh's
software management team decided to ignore the entirety of Western Europe.

Or the camera does not have a built-in table for DST transitions
anywhere in the world, and requires the user to select DST manually at
the start of DST. This is the case for the K-5 II, and I've seen no
evidence that the K-1 is different.




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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Matthew Hunt]

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 2:49 PM, P. J. Alling
 wrote:

> So there are a few possibilities.  You set your home city to someplace that
> has the same offset from GMT/UTC as WET but doesn't observe DST, or you've
> set the camera to think you're traveling to such a city.  or there's a
> firmware or hardware fault in your camera, since I doubt that Ricoh's
> software management team decided to ignore the entirety of Western Europe.

Or the camera does not have a built-in table for DST transitions
anywhere in the world, and requires the user to select DST manually at
the start of DST. This is the case for the K-5 II, and I've seen no
evidence that the K-1 is different.

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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[P. J. Alling]

Well I finally decided to look at time zones, and the Netherlands is on 
WET, which means that it's a major time zone, and DST changes for all of 
that time zone at the same time.  Which by the measure of most software 
development teams is worth having in the cameras onboard time zone table.


So there are a few possibilities.  You set your home city to someplace 
that has the same offset from GMT/UTC as WET but doesn't observe DST, or 
you've set the camera to think you're traveling to such a city.  or 
there's a firmware or hardware fault in your camera, since I doubt that 
Ricoh's software management team decided to ignore the entirety of 
Western Europe.



On 3/27/2017 2:14 PM, Jos de Fotograaf wrote:

Stan, your explanation of GPS sounds logic, thks.

The GPS is also used when shooting ASTRO, but I did not try that yet.

I will check with Ricoh/Pentax why there would be no DST timetable for 
the Netherlands. As they should know US could be first but Netherlands 
are second!


Anyhow, I will not wait for the software update, but change the time 
manually.


Greetz, Jos


On 27-Mar-17 17:09, Stanley Halpin wrote:
Jos, my understanding is that the K-1 GPS Logging has nothing to do 
with photography. It allows you to treat your camera as though it 
were a GPS handheld device, but it is not connected to your basic 
camera functions.


With Logging, a subroutine in the firmware will periodically query 
the GPS chip, and will store the indicated location information in a 
file. If you are hiking through a forest, if you set the interval to 
30 seconds or 1 minute you would be able to store a fairly continuous 
track of your path. It is a separate file on one of your cards, I 
believe it is not in your image folder. Later you can extract that 
Track and read it in various tracking/logging software. If you were 
driving you might want an interval of only 5 seconds. But of course 
the shorter the interval, the more processing you are asking for, and 
thus the more demands you are making on your battery.


The photography (main) system in your camera does not need and does 
not use GPS Logging. It only reads and stores GPS data as needed. If 
you have GPS turned on, then when you take a picture the photography 
system will query the GPS chip and will record location, direction 
etc information within the EXiF for that captured image.


Of course, I may be wrong, I was once wrong (maybe twice) and it 
might happen again at any time. But I believe the above is correct…


Back on the question of DST, I agree with the others’ comments - I 
don’t think there is anything physically wrong with your camera, but 
rather the problem is with the camera firmware and its ability to 
maintain an internal database of the various time standards in 
various regions. One simple answer might be to verify that you have 
the latest firmware. But I know that I have been in many situations 
where the auto-set time on various GPS capable devices has simply 
been wrong.


stan

On Mar 27, 2017, at 10:35 AM, Jos de Fotograaf 
 wrote:


Hi Stanley, thks. So it should work. I will contact local Pentax for 
info.


Maybe you can help in understanding the GPS.

What does the camera do when GPS logging is on?

Reasoning behind selecting a certain logging interval and duration?

Greetz, Jos




On 27-Mar-17 15:16, Stanley Halpin wrote:
I just checked mine. Both have GPS Time Sync turned on. On my 
primary K-1, I had DST checked. The indicated time was correct. On 
my backup, I had not checked DST in the Time submenu. The indicated 
time was off by one hour. I checked the DST Checkbox, the time 
immediately adjusted to the correct DST local time.


So, not sure what the issue is with yours, but it does seem that it 
is working for me.


stan

On Mar 27, 2017, at 8:46 AM, Jos de Fotograaf 
 wrote:


This weekend my country (Netherlands) moved to summer time (DST)

I could have changed the clock of my K1 the easy way by just set 
the clock 1 hour later.


I decided to let it happen automatically.

In the menu I selected "GPS time sync"

Then I switched on GPS logging and left it on for one hour.

After that, the time was still not corrected.

What did I do wrong?

Greetz, Jos


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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[P. J. Alling]

Stan, you live in a major time zone, when firmware updates stop for the 
K-1, and the U.S. changes when DST starts and ends, as they did a few 
years ago, your camera will stop updating the time correctly too.  I had 
that problem with my PC running an "outdated" OS.  It required a patch, 
which made in the registry which worked until I finally decided to 
update to the latest OS. It's not quite so easy to update firmware for 
devices like cameras, I wouldn't want to risk bricking my K-5II by 
poking around in the firmware file to make such a trivial change.



On 3/27/2017 9:16 AM, Stanley Halpin wrote:

I just checked mine. Both have GPS Time Sync turned on. On my primary K-1, I 
had DST checked. The indicated time was correct. On my backup, I had not 
checked DST in the Time submenu. The indicated time was off by one hour. I 
checked the DST Checkbox, the time immediately adjusted to the correct DST 
local time.

So, not sure what the issue is with yours, but it does seem that it is working 
for me.

stan


On Mar 27, 2017, at 8:46 AM, Jos de Fotograaf  wrote:

This weekend my country (Netherlands) moved to summer time (DST)

I could have changed the clock of my K1 the easy way by just set the clock 1 
hour later.

I decided to let it happen automatically.

In the menu I selected "GPS time sync"

Then I switched on GPS logging and left it on for one hour.

After that, the time was still not corrected.

What did I do wrong?

Greetz, Jos


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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Matthew Hunt]

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 2:14 PM, Jos de Fotograaf
 wrote:

> I will check with Ricoh/Pentax why there would be no DST timetable for the
> Netherlands. As they should know US could be first but Netherlands are
> second!

Um, has anybody actually said that it changed automatically in the US
or anywhere else? I don't think it does. Stan said the time was
correct on the camera that had DST checked. The other camera became
correct when he turned DST on. That's consistent with manual selection
of the time zone and DST, not automatic.

> Anyhow, I will not wait for the software update, but change the time
> manually.

Change the DST setting, not the time, if you want to continue using
the accurate time provided by GPS. If you leave DST unchecked and
change the time manually by an hour, it will become wrong again when
the GPS sets the time. (At least based on experience with the K-5 II
and O-GPS1.)

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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Jos de Fotograaf]

Stan, your explanation of GPS sounds logic, thks.

The GPS is also used when shooting ASTRO, but I did not try that yet.

I will check with Ricoh/Pentax why there would be no DST timetable for 
the Netherlands. As they should know US could be first but Netherlands 
are second!


Anyhow, I will not wait for the software update, but change the time 
manually.


Greetz, Jos


On 27-Mar-17 17:09, Stanley Halpin wrote:

Jos, my understanding is that the K-1 GPS Logging has nothing to do with 
photography. It allows you to treat your camera as though it were a GPS 
handheld device, but it is not connected to your basic camera functions.

With Logging, a subroutine in the firmware will periodically query the GPS 
chip, and will store the indicated location information in a file. If you are 
hiking through a forest, if you set the interval to 30 seconds or 1 minute you 
would be able to store a fairly continuous track of your path. It is a separate 
file on one of your cards, I believe it is not in your image folder. Later you 
can extract that Track and read it in various tracking/logging software. If you 
were driving you might want an interval of only 5 seconds. But of course the 
shorter the interval, the more processing you are asking for, and thus the more 
demands you are making on your battery.

The photography (main) system in your camera does not need and does not use GPS 
Logging. It only reads and stores GPS data as needed. If you have GPS turned 
on, then when you take a picture the photography system will query the GPS chip 
and will record location, direction etc information within the EXiF for that 
captured image.

Of course, I may be wrong, I was once wrong (maybe twice) and it might happen 
again at any time. But I believe the above is correct…

Back on the question of DST, I agree with the others’ comments - I don’t think 
there is anything physically wrong with your camera, but rather the problem is 
with the camera firmware and its ability to maintain an internal database of 
the various time standards in various regions. One simple answer might be to 
verify that you have the latest firmware. But I know that I have been in many 
situations where the auto-set time on various GPS capable devices has simply 
been wrong.

stan


On Mar 27, 2017, at 10:35 AM, Jos de Fotograaf  wrote:

Hi Stanley, thks. So it should work. I will contact local Pentax for info.

Maybe you can help in understanding the GPS.

What does the camera do when GPS logging is on?

Reasoning behind selecting a certain logging interval and duration?

Greetz, Jos




On 27-Mar-17 15:16, Stanley Halpin wrote:

I just checked mine. Both have GPS Time Sync turned on. On my primary K-1, I 
had DST checked. The indicated time was correct. On my backup, I had not 
checked DST in the Time submenu. The indicated time was off by one hour. I 
checked the DST Checkbox, the time immediately adjusted to the correct DST 
local time.

So, not sure what the issue is with yours, but it does seem that it is working 
for me.

stan


On Mar 27, 2017, at 8:46 AM, Jos de Fotograaf  wrote:

This weekend my country (Netherlands) moved to summer time (DST)

I could have changed the clock of my K1 the easy way by just set the clock 1 
hour later.

I decided to let it happen automatically.

In the menu I selected "GPS time sync"

Then I switched on GPS logging and left it on for one hour.

After that, the time was still not corrected.

What did I do wrong?

Greetz, Jos


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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Stanley Halpin]

Jos, my understanding is that the K-1 GPS Logging has nothing to do with 
photography. It allows you to treat your camera as though it were a GPS 
handheld device, but it is not connected to your basic camera functions.

With Logging, a subroutine in the firmware will periodically query the GPS 
chip, and will store the indicated location information in a file. If you are 
hiking through a forest, if you set the interval to 30 seconds or 1 minute you 
would be able to store a fairly continuous track of your path. It is a separate 
file on one of your cards, I believe it is not in your image folder. Later you 
can extract that Track and read it in various tracking/logging software. If you 
were driving you might want an interval of only 5 seconds. But of course the 
shorter the interval, the more processing you are asking for, and thus the more 
demands you are making on your battery.

The photography (main) system in your camera does not need and does not use GPS 
Logging. It only reads and stores GPS data as needed. If you have GPS turned 
on, then when you take a picture the photography system will query the GPS chip 
and will record location, direction etc information within the EXiF for that 
captured image.

Of course, I may be wrong, I was once wrong (maybe twice) and it might happen 
again at any time. But I believe the above is correct…

Back on the question of DST, I agree with the others’ comments - I don’t think 
there is anything physically wrong with your camera, but rather the problem is 
with the camera firmware and its ability to maintain an internal database of 
the various time standards in various regions. One simple answer might be to 
verify that you have the latest firmware. But I know that I have been in many 
situations where the auto-set time on various GPS capable devices has simply 
been wrong. 

stan

> On Mar 27, 2017, at 10:35 AM, Jos de Fotograaf  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Stanley, thks. So it should work. I will contact local Pentax for info.
> 
> Maybe you can help in understanding the GPS.
> 
> What does the camera do when GPS logging is on?
> 
> Reasoning behind selecting a certain logging interval and duration?
> 
> Greetz, Jos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 27-Mar-17 15:16, Stanley Halpin wrote:
>> I just checked mine. Both have GPS Time Sync turned on. On my primary K-1, I 
>> had DST checked. The indicated time was correct. On my backup, I had not 
>> checked DST in the Time submenu. The indicated time was off by one hour. I 
>> checked the DST Checkbox, the time immediately adjusted to the correct DST 
>> local time.
>> 
>> So, not sure what the issue is with yours, but it does seem that it is 
>> working for me.
>> 
>> stan
>> 
>>> On Mar 27, 2017, at 8:46 AM, Jos de Fotograaf  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> This weekend my country (Netherlands) moved to summer time (DST)
>>> 
>>> I could have changed the clock of my K1 the easy way by just set the clock 
>>> 1 hour later.
>>> 
>>> I decided to let it happen automatically.
>>> 
>>> In the menu I selected "GPS time sync"
>>> 
>>> Then I switched on GPS logging and left it on for one hour.
>>> 
>>> After that, the time was still not corrected.
>>> 
>>> What did I do wrong?
>>> 
>>> Greetz, Jos
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> follow the directions.
>> 
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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[P. J. Alling]

I don't know for sure but I expect that the firmware doesn't have every 
different DST change programmed in.  It wouldn't surprise me at all that 
the programmers tasked were following a requirement document that didn't 
include the Netherlands or a lot of other "smaller" districts that have 
different dates for the change or say the places with relatively small 
populations that change DST by 1/2 hour rather than a full hour, or that 
don't change to DST and are surrounded by others that do.  DST is 
needlessly complicated, most of all because it's meaningless, except to 
actually hurt peoples health.


This is not to say that that the Netherlands isn't small or unimportant, 
but there is limited storage space in firmware and not all the things 
you'd like to include can fit.


On 3/27/2017 8:46 AM, Jos de Fotograaf wrote:

This weekend my country (Netherlands) moved to summer time (DST)

I could have changed the clock of my K1 the easy way by just set the 
clock 1 hour later.


I decided to let it happen automatically.

In the menu I selected "GPS time sync"

Then I switched on GPS logging and left it on for one hour.

After that, the time was still not corrected.

What did I do wrong?

Greetz, Jos





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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Eric Featherstone]

Just because the K-1 has a GPS doesn't mean it knows about DST. For
that you need an extra file of info listing for every country in the
world the dates that DST in that country begins and ends. My Garmin
gps for example has such a list (and that list gets regular updates)
and the firmware to make use of such a list. I doubt Pentax implements
such a scheme or distributes such a list. Understanding timezones is
bad enough [1], understanding the continually changing DST laws is
harder. That's why there's the DST checkbox in the menu system.

[1] http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1799

On 27 March 2017 at 15:29, Jos de Fotograaf  wrote:
> Hi Matthew, that is a practical approach, but K1 has GPS and should know the
> local time, Greetz, Jos
>
>
>
> On 27-Mar-17 15:04, Matthew Hunt wrote:
>>
>> I don't have a K-1, but none of my Pentax cameras have ever
>> transitioned automatically between standard time and DST. That is, the
>> camera does not know the rules for DST transitions, but instead relies
>> on the user to tell it whether DST is in effect. The camera will use
>> the timezone and DST setting that you tell it to convert from
>> universal time (from the GPS) to local time.
>>
>> My cameras let me set two time zones of interest: A "hometown" time
>> zone (orange house) and a "destination" time zone (blue airplane). I
>> set the home time zone to Eastern Standard Time (i.e. "New York" time,
>> no DST) and the destination time zone to Eastern Daylight Time (i.e.
>> "New York" time, with DST).
>>
>> In the spring, I select the "destination" time zone, and in the fall I
>> go back to the "hometown" time zone.
>>
>> Alternatively, you could check and uncheck DST as required.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:46 AM, Jos de Fotograaf
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> This weekend my country (Netherlands) moved to summer time (DST)
>>>
>>> I could have changed the clock of my K1 the easy way by just set the
>>> clock 1
>>> hour later.
>>>
>>> I decided to let it happen automatically.
>>>
>>> In the menu I selected "GPS time sync"
>>>
>>> Then I switched on GPS logging and left it on for one hour.
>>>
>>> After that, the time was still not corrected.
>>>
>>> What did I do wrong?
>>>
>>> Greetz, Jos
>>>
>>>
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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Matthew Hunt]

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 10:29 AM, Jos de Fotograaf
 wrote:

> Hi Matthew, that is a practical approach, but K1 has GPS and should know the
> local time, Greetz, Jos

Every year some countries in the world change their laws regarding
time zones and DST. I would imagine Pentax doesn't want to take on the
responsibility of issuing firmware updates for years to incorporate
these changes.

(For examples, here's the mailing list archive for one of the software
libraries that tracks these sorts of changes:
http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz-announce/
)

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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Jos de Fotograaf]

Hi Stanley, thks. So it should work. I will contact local Pentax for info.

Maybe you can help in understanding the GPS.

What does the camera do when GPS logging is on?

Reasoning behind selecting a certain logging interval and duration?

Greetz, Jos




On 27-Mar-17 15:16, Stanley Halpin wrote:

I just checked mine. Both have GPS Time Sync turned on. On my primary K-1, I 
had DST checked. The indicated time was correct. On my backup, I had not 
checked DST in the Time submenu. The indicated time was off by one hour. I 
checked the DST Checkbox, the time immediately adjusted to the correct DST 
local time.

So, not sure what the issue is with yours, but it does seem that it is working 
for me.

stan


On Mar 27, 2017, at 8:46 AM, Jos de Fotograaf  wrote:

This weekend my country (Netherlands) moved to summer time (DST)

I could have changed the clock of my K1 the easy way by just set the clock 1 
hour later.

I decided to let it happen automatically.

In the menu I selected "GPS time sync"

Then I switched on GPS logging and left it on for one hour.

After that, the time was still not corrected.

What did I do wrong?

Greetz, Jos


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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Jos de Fotograaf]

Hi Matthew, that is a practical approach, but K1 has GPS and should know 
the local time, Greetz, Jos



On 27-Mar-17 15:04, Matthew Hunt wrote:

I don't have a K-1, but none of my Pentax cameras have ever
transitioned automatically between standard time and DST. That is, the
camera does not know the rules for DST transitions, but instead relies
on the user to tell it whether DST is in effect. The camera will use
the timezone and DST setting that you tell it to convert from
universal time (from the GPS) to local time.

My cameras let me set two time zones of interest: A "hometown" time
zone (orange house) and a "destination" time zone (blue airplane). I
set the home time zone to Eastern Standard Time (i.e. "New York" time,
no DST) and the destination time zone to Eastern Daylight Time (i.e.
"New York" time, with DST).

In the spring, I select the "destination" time zone, and in the fall I
go back to the "hometown" time zone.

Alternatively, you could check and uncheck DST as required.

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:46 AM, Jos de Fotograaf
 wrote:

This weekend my country (Netherlands) moved to summer time (DST)

I could have changed the clock of my K1 the easy way by just set the clock 1
hour later.

I decided to let it happen automatically.

In the menu I selected "GPS time sync"

Then I switched on GPS logging and left it on for one hour.

After that, the time was still not corrected.

What did I do wrong?

Greetz, Jos


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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Stanley Halpin]

I just checked mine. Both have GPS Time Sync turned on. On my primary K-1, I 
had DST checked. The indicated time was correct. On my backup, I had not 
checked DST in the Time submenu. The indicated time was off by one hour. I 
checked the DST Checkbox, the time immediately adjusted to the correct DST 
local time.

So, not sure what the issue is with yours, but it does seem that it is working 
for me.

stan

> On Mar 27, 2017, at 8:46 AM, Jos de Fotograaf  wrote:
> 
> This weekend my country (Netherlands) moved to summer time (DST)
> 
> I could have changed the clock of my K1 the easy way by just set the clock 1 
> hour later.
> 
> I decided to let it happen automatically.
> 
> In the menu I selected "GPS time sync"
> 
> Then I switched on GPS logging and left it on for one hour.
> 
> After that, the time was still not corrected.
> 
> What did I do wrong?
> 
> Greetz, Jos
> 
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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Re: Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Matthew Hunt]

I don't have a K-1, but none of my Pentax cameras have ever
transitioned automatically between standard time and DST. That is, the
camera does not know the rules for DST transitions, but instead relies
on the user to tell it whether DST is in effect. The camera will use
the timezone and DST setting that you tell it to convert from
universal time (from the GPS) to local time.

My cameras let me set two time zones of interest: A "hometown" time
zone (orange house) and a "destination" time zone (blue airplane). I
set the home time zone to Eastern Standard Time (i.e. "New York" time,
no DST) and the destination time zone to Eastern Daylight Time (i.e.
"New York" time, with DST).

In the spring, I select the "destination" time zone, and in the fall I
go back to the "hometown" time zone.

Alternatively, you could check and uncheck DST as required.

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 8:46 AM, Jos de Fotograaf
 wrote:
> This weekend my country (Netherlands) moved to summer time (DST)
>
> I could have changed the clock of my K1 the easy way by just set the clock 1
> hour later.
>
> I decided to let it happen automatically.
>
> In the menu I selected "GPS time sync"
>
> Then I switched on GPS logging and left it on for one hour.
>
> After that, the time was still not corrected.
>
> What did I do wrong?
>
> Greetz, Jos
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.

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Why did my K1 not go automatically to DST?

[Jos de Fotograaf]

This weekend my country (Netherlands) moved to summer time (DST)

I could have changed the clock of my K1 the easy way by just set the 
clock 1 hour later.


I decided to let it happen automatically.

In the menu I selected "GPS time sync"

Then I switched on GPS logging and left it on for one hour.

After that, the time was still not corrected.

What did I do wrong?

Greetz, Jos


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