On 2013-06-11, at 18:09, David Wood da...@3roundstones.com wrote:
On Jun 11, 2013, at 12:58, Hugh Glaser h...@ecs.soton.ac.uk wrote:
Nicely put, David.
I have heard people going the other way and disconnecting them, however.
That is, suggesting that Linked Data does not need to be RDF,
On 6/11/13 11:26 PM, Mike Bergman wrote:
On 6/11/2013 9:46 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 9:55 PM, Mike Bergman wrote:
+1
Mike,
I am utterly confused about your +1.
Which of the following are you in support of?
1. That RDF is Linked Data?
2. That Linked Data is RDF?
Yes.
What
On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 5:26 AM, Mike Bergman m...@mkbergman.com wrote:
I do not personally think you are lying or fraudulent or some of
David's other claims, but you are a pain in the ass, for sure
If he's a pain in the ass to you, you can simply ignore this conversation.
My counsel, which
All,
/RDF isn't natural --- and therefore is barely used --- by the average
Web developer or data wrangler. CSV, by contrast, is. And you are going
to need to win the hearts and minds of those folks for whatever approach
is proposed/. -- Rufus Pollock (OKFN) [1][2].
RDF is actually natural.
Thanks for picking this up Kingsley.
I'd just like to highlight the end of the report [1] where I've
described what we're proposing to our members on this, namely a new WG
that will look specifically at CSV and the metadata needed to easily
transform it into RDF or any other format. Jeni's
When talking to web developers, they tell me they find little benefit on
using RDF. This is due to two main reasons, in my opinion (there may be
others, for sure):
- Lack of usable tools: How many good, stable tools for managing data in
RDF are available out there? How many are for CSV? Even an
On 6/11/13 10:30 AM, Alvaro Graves wrote:
When talking to web developers, they tell me they find little benefit
on using RDF. This is due to two main reasons, in my opinion (there
may be others, for sure):
- Lack of usable tools: How many good, stable tools for managing data
in RDF are
On 06/11/2013 10:59 AM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
[ . . . ] many RDF advocates
want to conflate Linked Data and RDF. This is technically wrong, and
marketing wise -- an utter disaster.
I have not heard RDF advocates conflating Linked Data and RDF, but maybe
you talk to different RDF advocates
I disagree completely that RDF is not Web-native. Read-write RDF Linked
Data is the way the Web was supposed to be, in my opinion.
Martynas
On Jun 11, 2013 5:33 PM, Alvaro Graves alv...@graves.cl wrote:
When talking to web developers, they tell me they find little benefit on
using RDF. This is
On 6/11/13 11:56 AM, David Booth wrote:
On 06/11/2013 10:59 AM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
[ . . . ] many RDF advocates
want to conflate Linked Data and RDF. This is technically wrong, and
marketing wise -- an utter disaster.
I have not heard RDF advocates conflating Linked Data and RDF, but
On 6/11/13 12:05 PM, Martynas Jusevic(ius wrote:
I disagree completely that RDF is not Web-native. Read-write RDF
Linked Data is the way the Web was supposed to be, in my opinion.
Solutions are the only way to demonstrate that RDF based Linked Data is
native to the Web. The same approach
Nicely put, David.
I have heard people going the other way and disconnecting them, however.
That is, suggesting that Linked Data does not need to be RDF, which I do find
confuses people (and me!)
On 11 Jun 2013, at 16:56, David Booth da...@dbooth.org
wrote:
On 06/11/2013 10:59 AM, Kingsley
On Jun 11, 2013, at 12:58, Hugh Glaser h...@ecs.soton.ac.uk wrote:
Nicely put, David.
I have heard people going the other way and disconnecting them, however.
That is, suggesting that Linked Data does not need to be RDF, which I do find
confuses people (and me!)
It seems to me that those
On 6/11/13 1:09 PM, David Wood wrote:
On Jun 11, 2013, at 12:58, Hugh Glaser h...@ecs.soton.ac.uk wrote:
Nicely put, David.
I have heard people going the other way and disconnecting them, however.
That is, suggesting that Linked Data does not need to be RDF, which I do find
confuses people
On 6/11/13 12:58 PM, Hugh Glaser wrote:
Nicely put, David.
I have heard people going the other way and disconnecting them, however.
That is, suggesting that Linked Data does not need to be RDF, which I do find
confuses people (and me!)
It isn't all or nothing.
It just means you don't always
On 06/11/2013 12:18 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 11:56 AM, David Booth wrote:
On 06/11/2013 10:59 AM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
[ . . . ] many RDF advocates
want to conflate Linked Data and RDF. This is technically wrong, and
marketing wise -- an utter disaster.
I have not heard RDF
On 6/11/13 1:59 PM, David Booth wrote:
On 06/11/2013 12:18 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 11:56 AM, David Booth wrote:
On 06/11/2013 10:59 AM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
[ . . . ] many RDF advocates
want to conflate Linked Data and RDF. This is technically wrong, and
marketing wise -- an
I don't dislike Linked Stuff personally. I often say that URIs are
technology-neutral. Use URIs to identify things and it doesn't matter
tuppence whether you use RDF or something else since dereferencing a URI
can (and frequently does) return a choice of HTML, RDF/XML, Turtle,
JSON, XML or
You said TOOLs. That’s correct. I’d like a way to natively work with RDF graphs
on Web browsers as I can do it with rdflib in Python or with Virtuoso and
SPARQL on the server side.
I do not wanna care about the serialization as I have the abstract model that
gives me everything I need to work
We have successfully used two different tools in this realm:
1. JSON-LD. This doesn't quite fit your definition, but JSON-LD is an easy
to produce and consume RDF serialization. http://www.json-ld.org/
2. RdfQuery. A JQuery extension that handles various RDF serializations.
On 6/11/13 3:31 PM, Phil Archer wrote:
I don't dislike Linked Stuff personally. I often say that URIs are
technology-neutral. Use URIs to identify things and it doesn't matter
tuppence whether you use RDF or something else since dereferencing a
URI can (and frequently does) return a choice of
On 6/11/13 3:27 PM, Sven R.Kunze wrote:
You said TOOLs. That’s correct. I’d like a way to natively work with
RDF graphs on Web browsers as I can do it with rdflib in Python or
with Virtuoso and SPARQL on the server side.
I do not wanna care about the serialization as I have the abstract
model
On 11 June 2013 19:59, David Booth da...@dbooth.org wrote:
On 06/11/2013 12:18 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 11:56 AM, David Booth wrote:
On 06/11/2013 10:59 AM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
[ . . . ] many RDF advocates
want to conflate Linked Data and RDF. This is technically wrong,
On 6/11/13 4:12 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
This is the goal of the Semantic Web: to enable machines to
usefully and (semi-)automatically, find, share, combine and
process web data. Because Linked Data is RDF, Linked Data supports
that goal in a very important way that Linked
On 11 June 2013 21:40, Robert Sanderson azarot...@gmail.com wrote:
We have successfully used two different tools in this realm:
1. JSON-LD. This doesn't quite fit your definition, but JSON-LD is an
easy to produce and consume RDF serialization. http://www.json-ld.org/
2. RdfQuery. A
On 06/11/2013 04:20 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 4:12 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
This is the goal of the Semantic Web: to enable machines to
usefully and (semi-)automatically, find, share, combine and
process web data. Because Linked Data is RDF, Linked Data supports
On 11 June 2013 22:51, David Booth da...@dbooth.org wrote:
On 06/11/2013 04:20 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 4:12 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
This is the goal of the Semantic Web: to enable machines to
usefully and (semi-)automatically, find, share, combine and
process
On 6/11/13 4:51 PM, David Booth wrote:
On 06/11/2013 04:20 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 4:12 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
This is the goal of the Semantic Web: to enable machines to
usefully and (semi-)automatically, find, share, combine and
process web data. Because
Why are we worried about all of this? Linked Data is clearly defined by
the four principles of Tim-Berners Lee [1]. RDF is in there. So in order to
be Linked Data it has to use RDF.
If you don't want to use RDF, then you're not doing Linked Data. You're
just doing something else and you're free
On 06/11/2013 02:15 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 1:59 PM, David Booth wrote:
[ . . . ]
But RDF *is* one of Linked Data's defining characteristics, regardless
of whether people outside the RDF community understand that. (And it
seems to me that if they don't understand that, then we
On Jun 11, 2013, at 11:18 AM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 11:56 AM, David Booth wrote:
On 06/11/2013 10:59 AM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
[ . . . ] many RDF advocates
want to conflate Linked Data and RDF. This is technically wrong, and
marketing wise -- an utter disaster.
I have not
On 6/11/13 5:15 PM, Luca Matteis wrote:
Why are we worried about all of this? Linked Data is clearly defined
by the four principles of Tim-Berners Lee [1]. RDF is in there. So in
order to be Linked Data it has to use RDF.
If you don't want to use RDF, then you're not doing Linked Data.
Nice message, David.
Yes, Luca, http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html is where we should
look to understand what is now meant by Linked Data.
http://5stardata.info/ is nice, but I would not sign up to it (just because the
domain 5stardata.info has been registered!? - interesting
On 6/11/13 5:59 PM, Pat Hayes wrote:
On Jun 11, 2013, at 11:18 AM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 11:56 AM, David Booth wrote:
On 06/11/2013 10:59 AM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
[ . . . ] many RDF advocates
want to conflate Linked Data and RDF. This is technically wrong, and
marketing wise
On 11 June 2013 23:59, Pat Hayes pha...@ihmc.us wrote:
On Jun 11, 2013, at 11:18 AM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 11:56 AM, David Booth wrote:
On 06/11/2013 10:59 AM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
[ . . . ] many RDF advocates
want to conflate Linked Data and RDF. This is technically
On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Kingsley Idehen kide...@openlinksw.comwrote:
Really? You are referring to a revision of the original meme [1]. And
when you digest that meme, please don't come back inferring that TimBL must
have been thinking about RDF when he produced outlined the four
On 6/11/13 6:05 PM, Hugh Glaser wrote:
Nice message, David.
Yes, Luca, http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html is where we should
look to understand what is now meant by Linked Data.
http://5stardata.info/ is nice, but I would not sign up to it (just because the
domain 5stardata.info
On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 12:24 AM, Kingsley Idehen kide...@openlinksw.comwrote:
In my eyes, heterogeneity is the spice of life, a critical virtue
reflected in the Web's architecture.
But without HTTP there would be no Web. So you need to draw the line at
some point to make things work
On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 12:17 AM, Kingsley Idehen kide...@openlinksw.comwrote:
This conversation is about being flexible about how we promote Linked Data
to folks that have long tuned out the letters R-D-F.
I agree we need to make it more compelling to users with as little jargon
as possible.
Zitat von Kingsley Idehen kide...@openlinksw.com:
On 6/11/13 4:12 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
This is the goal of the Semantic Web: to enable machines to
usefully and (semi-)automatically, find, share, combine and
process web data. Because Linked Data is RDF, Linked Data supports
Zitat von Melvin Carvalho melvincarva...@gmail.com:
On 11 June 2013 21:40, Robert Sanderson azarot...@gmail.com wrote:
We have successfully used two different tools in this realm:
1. JSON-LD. This doesn't quite fit your definition, but JSON-LD is an
easy to produce and consume RDF
On 6/11/13 6:29 PM, Luca Matteis wrote:
On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 12:17 AM, Kingsley Idehen
kide...@openlinksw.com mailto:kide...@openlinksw.com wrote:
This conversation is about being flexible about how we promote
Linked Data to folks that have long tuned out the letters R-D-F.
I
On 6/11/13 5:19 PM, David Booth wrote:
On 06/11/2013 02:15 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 1:59 PM, David Booth wrote:
[ . . . ]
But RDF *is* one of Linked Data's defining characteristics, regardless
of whether people outside the RDF community understand that. (And it
seems to me that
Hi all,
I'm sure that on this particular list, everyone will agree that RDF is
web-native (of course it is). As a member of OKFN myself I have found
Rufus' quote very hard to defend (certainly not as a LOD researcher).
Nevertheless it was very thought provoking and sadly it may be a very close
On 6/11/13 6:26 PM, Luca Matteis wrote:
On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 12:24 AM, Kingsley Idehen
kide...@openlinksw.com mailto:kide...@openlinksw.com wrote:
In my eyes, heterogeneity is the spice of life, a critical virtue
reflected in the Web's architecture.
But without HTTP there would
On 06/11/2013 06:24 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 6:18 PM, Luca Matteis wrote:
On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Kingsley Idehen
kide...@openlinksw.com mailto:kide...@openlinksw.com wrote:
Really? You are referring to a revision of the original meme [1].
And when you digest
+1
Mike
PS Pls end this thread; it is a waste of electrons.
On 6/11/2013 8:33 PM, David Booth wrote:
On 06/11/2013 06:24 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 6:18 PM, Luca Matteis wrote:
On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Kingsley Idehen
kide...@openlinksw.com
On 06/11/2013 06:02 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 5:15 PM, Luca Matteis wrote:
Why are we worried about all of this? Linked Data is clearly defined
by the four principles of Tim-Berners Lee [1]. RDF is in there. So in
order to be Linked Data it has to use RDF.
If you don't want to use
On 06/11/2013 04:57 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
On 11 June 2013 22:51, David Booth da...@dbooth.org
mailto:da...@dbooth.org wrote:
[ . . . ]
The stars are to encourage people *toward* Linked Open Data -- both
Linked Data and fully Open Data. The stars do *not* indicate that
there
On 6/11/13 9:55 PM, Mike Bergman wrote:
+1
Mike,
I am utterly confused about your +1.
Which of the following are you in support of?
1. That RDF is Linked Data?
2. That Linked Data is RDF?
What do you think my point actually is?
If you are wondering why I am utterly confused about your +1,
On 6/11/13 9:57 PM, David Booth wrote:
On 06/11/2013 06:02 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 5:15 PM, Luca Matteis wrote:
Why are we worried about all of this? Linked Data is clearly defined
by the four principles of Tim-Berners Lee [1]. RDF is in there. So in
order to be Linked Data it
On 6/11/13 10:18 PM, David Booth wrote:
Because PDF is not RDF, and Linked Data is based on RDF. You could
call it Linked Stuff or hyperdata or something else like that *if* it
contains links. But Linked Data has a well-established meaning in
the community -- in spite of Kingsley's claims
On 6/11/2013 9:46 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
On 6/11/13 9:55 PM, Mike Bergman wrote:
+1
Mike,
I am utterly confused about your +1.
Which of the following are you in support of?
1. That RDF is Linked Data?
2. That Linked Data is RDF?
Yes.
What is boring and unnecessary about all of this
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